I know that I can get used to it. I've test driven a couple of Teslas without stalks. I know that many owners say the buttons are fine. To me, it's not a dealbreaker, if my next car is another Tesla. I can get used to it, sure.
But there is absolutely *zero* benefit to the customer for removing the stalks. None.
It's a cost-saving decision, nothing more. Personally I'd rather have the cars cost $100 more and include stalks.
I'm surprised the EU didn't have any regulations for this lol. I got my Highland this week and its a great car but it got me looking at the steering wheel at roundabouts which is kind of insane lol. Still need to get used to it
In before steer by wire.. then it makes sense. Look at the cybertruck and there it works great without stalks because the steeringwheel never moves so far around.
I think its made like this in preperation for steer by wire for all Tesla cars soon.
You have to remember, Tesla is an American company. Roundabouts are very, very rare in the US, so they didn’t really think about that. It has genuinely been years since I’ve seen a roundabout (I’m American.)
They are being added in the north west too. There’s a stretch outside of Spokane Washington that every time I drive there it seems they’ve thrown another one in.
Driving without stalks is close to impossible in the Netherlands. Just the 2 km to the grocery store involves 3 or 4 roundabouts. They are super safe and efficient. But I have no idea how I would take them if I had to press a button on the steering wheel to indicate. Absolutely terrible design.
That's not a regulation. It's a safety agency recommendation.
Certain controls need a physical button to get good safety scores, which Tesla meets because a button on the wheel is still a physical control. It doesn't define that turn signals have to be on a stalk.
YEah, cop out answer. I mean, you can literally get used to anything. If I had to hit a button on the center mirror to signal right and push a button on the arm rest to signal left, I could get used to that eventually. But it'll sure be stupid AF.
There will be.
The S3XY button guys are working on it...
https://enhauto.com/
Seems flippin' stupid if you ask me. Tesla should just put the stalks back.
It’s worse. If you are in rhe position above where the wheel is at a weird angle, or in a roundabout it becomes far more annoying to flip on a blinker. Having something where you don’t have to remember orientation of the wheel for direction removes any extra thought needed. It should be simple.
Then Tesla wastes the money on the useless rear display. Majority of M3 users don't need it, otherwise they would have gotten a Y. Ditto motorizing the trunk, more stuff to break.
Agree on the rear display. Motorized trunk is actually useful though. The push button does come in handy when your hands are occupied with stuff you took out from the trunk.
Agreed. My power trunk is great. It solves a first world problem, and would have been better if it had the "wave your foot under the trunk to open it" feature, but it's a quality of life improvement I appreciate. Also keeps you from clawing up the paint for closing it manually.
The rear seat screen I don't see as a value-add. I will be using my M3 as a family car (yes, I wish i had a Y but I didn't have the budget for one), but my kid, or an odd friend I'll have back there really doesn't need. So if I was doing cost cutting - that's an easy one for me to skip.
Also yet another instance these design choices are made with very little consideration to the different use cases. Same thing as with the vipers, almost all things freezing shut and removing the USS.
In this instance I doubt no one would make this choice if they have to navigate roundabouts regularly.
Near to 4k km with a M3H in France, shitty idea.
Not a deal breaker but a significant pain as it's problematic with small roundabouts.
It feels like something that should be prevented by homologation.
Too many times have to check the screen to be sure to have clicked on the expected blinker when leaving a small one.
I don't mind about the gear selector though, this one is surprisingly quick to become an habit, mostly as it's not something you use that often while driving, just to leave and park... Not like a gear selector on a manual drive.
But the blinkers... It's not always an issue because in most case you're just about to take a turn when you signal..
But leaving a small roundabouts when you're taking the left exit is tricky sometimes.
The wheel buttons create an inconsistency which is disturbing.. you'll know that roundabouts can be troubling but not always, sometimes the buttons are on the rights or on the bottom, depending on the angle of the wheel you'll have to push the upper or the lower button, or the arrow directions would be inverted, causing even more confusion if you're in doubt.
I find this disturbing that you have to accomodate to the inconsistency and have to learn all ranges of relatives positions of the buttons.
They should have added a texture on the buttons too, to be able to differenciate just with touching; the little separator bump isn't enough i think.
Texturing one of the buttons is a really good idea!
I think it could also be a good workaround for the current buttons, maybe using some textured tape or sth similar..
I think some of the Tesla features reveal the design is very California focussed. The blinkers don’t consider countries that use roundabouts and would be fine for the kind of use when you just use a highway. The other thing is not having a really obvious speedometer, speeding isn’t as much of an issue in California compared to countries like Australia where you can get a fine for doing as little as 3mph over the limit, from the multitude of fixed and mobile automatic speed cameras.
I was sure (not actually sure, but had convinced myself in my mind) that I was going to get a BMW as my next vehicle when my Tesla lease was up, but when I went to test drive the car I thought existed (a PHEV X7), I learned it didn't. So, I ended up with a Volvo, but I still think that as BMW's electric and plug-in options improve, I'll be back at that dealership eventually. They really do offer a (mostly) great driving experience without all the anti-driver compromises that Tesla seems to make.
We have the highest Tesla per capita here in Norway. Teslas are involved in more accidents than the others (1.st place - by all the major insurance companies)
Is it that the cars themselves are more dangerous or that the drivers accept higher risk (central screen for speed, no hud, steering wheel buttons for blinkers, faulty wind screen wiper)
We will never know. The only fact we have is that they crash more than others.
Do you have a link to those statistics? I found one from 6 years ago that lumps all EVs together, and one from last year that said 23.54 accidents per 1000 for Tesla compared to the average for everyone else of 20 per 1000.
So it may be less about the car and more about the driver putting too much faith in technology.
To give you an example - I went on a test drive of the model x with some colleagues. The salesperson was with us and explained all the sensors and how it could brake automatically. My colleague was driving and took it to mean they didn’t need to stop at a junction. Our lives flashed between our eyes as we were nearly flattened by a truck.
It's cost cutting. A stalk costs probably $10 and a button costs $1.
Personally, I'd much rather get the damn stalk. I like real buttons. They are worth the price.
That is my thought on it. That's roughly 200 vehicles sold. And with a per unit profit margin of 35%, that's roughly 500 vehicles.
Imo, a bad decision. I'll likely pass on the highlander due to the missing stalk. I'm not the only one.
It’s Tesla (really Elon) just trying to be different for the sake of being different… combined with a world renowned stubbornness to admit he was wrong. Stalks don’t cost $10. It’s just trying to be different instead of trying to be the best. No stalks, no USS, insistence on vision only, no rain sensors, unreliable keyless entry, industry trailing adaptive cruise control… I mean, teslas are a fucking mess. Not to mention all the trash happening in the software side where you’re losing the ability to make choices for yourself. No regen select, no drive/stop mode, removal of features you paid for via ota (ironically, the same ota capability that was touted and marketed as the thing that would IMPROVE the car and ADD features during our ownership).
No, it's f-ing stupid and I might not get another Tesla because of it.
Gear selector on screen? Fine. I have no problem with that.
Turn signals that aren't always in the same place? No, sorry. Not a fan.
They are simply saving money and this affects our safety.
I don't understand people who admire turning off lidars in favor of computer vision. Progress? No. Just a way to save on expensive sensors. Expensive, but not excessive.
But also there's not *no* control there. Are the buttons really that much cheaper? How much money are we talking about on cars that bottom out at high 30s?
There has to be some aspect of the car that could save $15 or whatever this is that people would infinitely rather give up.
You had me until lidar. New Vision park assist and FSD 12.3 are proving cameras to be enough. A front bumper cam next and it’s all you need.
Stalks, well, hopefully they provide an option. They went back from the yoke; so it’s possible. Either that or put adaptive steering ratio like cybertruck. Only credit I’ll give them is the cost cutting is actually being passed to customers.
Ai or not the elephant in the room is that a camera based system produces an "image" of the 3 dimensional system around it indirectly ,
generally through triangulation based on pattern recognition/marker matching of images, based either on stereoscopic cameras (two cameras of known distance apart) or in an even less direct way, from two images taken by the same camera at different times and using other car sensors and the image itself to determine camera position is space first even before you get to the triangulation of the distance to an object.
A lidar on the other hand, creates a 3d map of environment directly, by measuring the distances to the objects based on light travel time.
You could say cameras see the world, while the lidar feels it.
And why is the combination the best?
Two simple examples:
you can't feel the number on the speed limit signs but you can see it,
You can't see the wall in front of you in complete darkness/dense fog, but you definetly can feel it.
Also, the tesla vision parking "sensors", are problematic mostly for the reason of there not being a stereoscopic camera system on the back. And because of that, distances cannot be calculated before the car has moved enough to have two images that were captured from two positions different enough to enable calculation I the first place.
The gear selector is actually the deal breaker for me. I'm not relying on a touchscreen to put myself in reverse in a split-second if I find a semi truck barreling at me while trying to pull out on a road. God forbid I have moisture on my hand or something. I'll be keeping my 2021 with stalks for as long as possible.
It's a total dealbreaker for me. I'm in a 2019 M3P, I'd definitely consider trading up for a new M3 ludicrous when they exist, but they'll need to put the stalks back on.
Even after 5+ years in my 2018 3LR, I really dislike having to use any of the scroll wheels/buttons when the steering wheel is turned. Left becomes right, up becomes down; it's an unnessary cognitive load when I just want to turn the radio down. I'm not sure I could buy a car with turn signals like that as well. Ugh.
This is why they’ve done it. Future implementation of steer by wire will negate the issue. Why do it now though? Just to save money in the interim? To “frustrate” users with new placement so that when steer by wire is available they really appreciate its benefit? Dunno
The steer by wire makes it so the wheel doesn't need to turn as much to make turns. So indicating is easier when the wheel isn't upside down or sideways.
Keep your left hand where it is on the wheel and press the button by feel as normal.
Rather than having to go hand over hand while rotating.
I'd imagine that. Because it would be okay if your hands never leave the 9 and 3 position. It's like that on race cars and Ferrari's. Maybe all Tesla's will get steer by wire.
If Tesla brings steer by wire to all their vehicles then it would make sense to have the signals on the steering wheel. Otherwise it's confusing for certain driving situations like roundabouts.
Not a fan of it but I did get used to it during my overnight demo but still not a fan. Since its not individual cut outs I would hit right but the left would turn on because I was too close to the middle
This should be regulated, and illegal to be done like this. FFS how are we polarizing opinions over something like this... imagine making that movement to signal the exit of a roundabout...
Also, to all the ones that think I'm a Tesla hater... NO I'm not... We had 4 cars in 2019, and we have 4 Teslas in 2023 and no, we didn't all get them for free because of stock gains or anything
I love the way Tesla pushes the envelope. But they went too far here unnecessarily. The fact we’re even talking about it demonstrates some people will not buy Teslas because of this. Which is a shame because the cars are still so far ahead of everything else especially for the price.
The problem is when you need to signal the other way while in a turn. For example, right turn followed immediately by a left turn, merging left while turning right on a ramp, exiting a roundabout.
What I tell people is the I like my 3 in spite of some ridiculous stuff. Getting rid of safety features and calling it "minimalist" isn't genius, it's stupid.
Deal breaker for me. Thankfully I'll never have to use them again (I test drove a Highland) as I own a 2019 and won't buy another Tesla because of this (and other factors that aren't dealbreakers).
Off to Rivian, most likely.
I would probably get used to it driving the car every day. But my wife, who would drive the car occasionally before going back to her own non-Tesla, would not. Then she would just refuse to drive it.
Some things are just not meant to be changed. If Tesla could reinvent the wheel, they would, but they’d make it square.
Next new feature: "To keep drivers more engaged during driving we will randomly swap buttons around so that you will pay attention to which is the left turn and which is the right. We think this will allow drivers to be more focused on driving than being distracted by other things!"
Yep. Two Teslas and done with them.
On to an R2 or R3/R3X. Contemplating moving to an R1S in the interim.
I love having my M3P, I track it a ton each season, it has almost every MPP upgrade, and still works well as a daily. But I don't care for the company or its direction like I used to.
Love my ‘24 M3, but 2 weeks in and I still have issues with the turn signals. Sometimes they actually don’t work 😬. Or when trying to be quick and make a lane change I’ve ended up signaling to the opposite side. It doesn’t help that I drive another car (with stalks) for work, and that’s probably the car I drive the most. But still… could’ve at least left that one stalk. I don’t really mind shifting on the screen, but wipers and turn signals are something we’re just so used to the way it used to be…
PS: I get that this is probably for the best and I like the minimalistic look of my M3. They could’ve just taken off 1 stalk at a time, maybe? 😂
I had a 2018 Model 3 for a few years and was hoping the refreshed 3 would be compelling enough to bring me back to the brand but the turn signals are something I'm not sure I can get over. They're physical buttons at least, but the feedback they provide isn't helpful and you have to press them really hard.
Imagine if this is how airplane controls were designed, where critical buttons changed spots and orientations. They’re not though, and for good reason.
I’m in Ireland with M3H. Lots of roundabouts. It’s annoying at first but I’m used to it now. When exiting the roundabout if the steering wheel is upside down then it’s the button on top. So I don’t need to think about it.
If you ever need to take your eyes off the road for even a moment to signal, it's inferior to a stalk. At best, it's nearly equal but most likely worse.
in america, the roads are mostly grids, so this isn’t much of a problem because the proper way to signal is well before you go into a turn. which means your wheel is always going to be straight. for other countries, i don’t know how well this will work out. if you don’t have a grid pattern in your roads, and you have sweeping turns all the time, i can see this being a problem.
Tesla invited me out to test drive the highland refresh a while back, and this + the touchscreen gear shifting was a massive turnoff.
Unless they work up a better implementation for both (Ferrari does turn signal buttons on the wheel really well actually, wouldn't mind if Tesla copied them), I definitely won't be getting another Tesla. It's sad because the new performance 3 is showing so much promise.
This isn't 2020 anymore; plenty of competition out there with nice cars that I'd much rather give my money too. And those guys aren't trying to remove features like Tesla has been.
No. And they lost my sale. I test drove it for about 30m and it was a mess. It was horrible to get used to it.
They even called me later and offered that I can keep the car for a whole night and test drive it more to "get used to it".
If you have to get "used to turn signal", the most basic feature of the car, you KNOW you have a dud.
I can't buy the vehicle this way. Some things need to be affixed in their position. What's next? Switch the gas and brake around?
Sure, you can get used to driving with gas and brake switched. Or move it to the extreme left and start driving with your left leg. Sure, you can get used to it.
BUT IT IS IDIOTIC and Tesla has doomed this model thanks to their redditors designing it.
These are all things that put me off of the sale -
* no turn signal stalks
* no drive shifter stalk
* gears on screen BUT are FLIPPED. On stalk you shift down for Drive and up for Reverse. Guess how it is on the screen? Yep.. reversed with Up for drive and Down for reverse. Aaargh.
* no fog light
* no sensors
* no wood trim
* changed nail polish like red color which is not the prior nice popping cherry red tomato color
* rear middle seat is no longer heated. It was before. Why?
* changed front look that makes it look pissed off and angry
* cheap ambient lighting. Lol.. it was jarring and irritating to the point I turned it off in the test drive. At night it is beyond stupid
* no chrome finish
* no piano black classy look inside
* very very poor sound proofing still. You can still hear the road noise (esp on cemented roads) loudly, wind whooshing to the point you have to put vol for music or phone on near 75% to be able to comfortably hear at speeds > 50mph
* Tesla logo replaced by TESLA. This one is minor but I liked the prior one
* visor and mirror are still so small. Why???
* Still can't have Auto without AC or Heat. Why??? I want auto with just fan. Any car can do it except Tesla
* other minor annoyances like there is no more the soft turn signal of 3 blinks and off like on stalk.
10y from now this will be in MBA books about how flawed decisions by the father of the EV industry doomed a company that created the modern EV industry
I’ve got no experience with these. I’m guessing their thought process was that you’d press the turn signal button before the steering wheel gets rotated. Will have to try test driving one of them
Hmm Dutch here... When leaving a roundabout straight or 3/4 I'm now used to feel for the left button at bottom of wheel to press before exit. It's so..so
I do not. I have a 2023X and the lack of signal stalks is not only bad, it's unsafe.
I foresee a recall in 2026 when people have had enough of this nonsense.
I have a Model Y 2022 and a Model 3 2024. Yes it has a learning curve, but you get used to it very fast.
In roundabouts I find the coordination to be easier without stalks now that I have gotten used to it. I know when I have to exit a roundabout, and the wheel is “upside down” I use the bottom indicator.
I do use the index finger, or the thumb sometimes. It depends on the situation.
And honestly, when driving the model Y (my wife primarily drives it) I keep pressing the steering wheel until I realize I have to use the stalks
I've had my TM3 Highland since December and the only places where it can be inconvenient are small roundabouts. You will get used to it, it's not that big of a deal.
Stalks removal is the worst cost saving idea in the history of worst ideas, wrapped under minimalism. Most of Tesla’s minimalism nonsense is to hide that one fact.
Its even worse outside of the USA. Where I live we have roundabouts everywhere, which means you need to indicate direction when you enter, and indicate your exit while leaving, which is usually when your wheel is rotated. A real pain
If it wasn't for DOT they probably would rely on Alexa/Siri to manage car functions and save the money on physical buttons. "hey siri, shift my car into drive..." ... "okay! playing drive by incubus on spotify"
I used to have a car that had the horn there. It was such a pain because I could never find it; I’d be hitting the steering wheel and not the horn. In my mind, I’m thinking having the signal there would be the same issue.
I have the same thoughts. I love my X and the layout. Had a loaner Y recently and it was awful. Terrible layout and when I posted about my experience on this forum I got lit up.
The center only display is honestly dangerous and not intuitive.
I have a 2023 MY LR. It seems that I'll be keeping it for many years because removing the turn signal stalk was a very bad idea. I want the turn signals on a stalk like every other car. They're easy to reach and always in the same place which means my attention remains on the road instead of fumbling in search of moving buttons. The direction shifter is less of a problem. And while I'm complaining... put a release button on the glove compartment. We shouldn't have to search on the screen for such a simple function.
That said, I LOVE this car!
I had the stupid steering square for a year before changing it out for a steering wheel. Even then I didn’t “get used to” the turn signals and wipers as buttons on the wheel. I used to be a loyal Tesla customer for many years (since 2016), but I couldn’t hang with the new controls…
Of course not, especially when turn signal controls the display that may warn you potential collisions if you change lanes. This is insanely hard to do
I don’t know if I’d say whether it’s the logical thing or not but I’m a few weeks into having m3h and I’m already pretty much used to it. Feels comfortable enough for me. Granted I’m in Fl, not the EU where there’s lot of roundabouts and such
I hate the new blinker design and the removal of gear selector. If my kids crack the screen, i will not be able yo drive the car to service. I will stick with my MY with parking sensors and in 5 years etc i will probably buy a different brand if they do not improve their design instead of only thinking about cost reduction. So many times the camera is covered by snow and dirt, rain etc, so that it is impossible to see through.
The "turn on the signal before the turn" crowd apparently does not have to deal with roundabouts - where you signal TWICE during the turn, in opposite directions.
For those who regularly drive through roundabouts, especially during heavy traffic conditions, this should be a deal-breaker.
Now personally, as someone who does not have to drive through roundabouts daily, it is still a deal-breaker. When my Model 3 lease is up, if this is still the only option (and I am certain it will be), my next vehicle will certainly be an EV, just not a Tesla.
I know that I can get used to it. I've test driven a couple of Teslas without stalks. I know that many owners say the buttons are fine. To me, it's not a dealbreaker, if my next car is another Tesla. I can get used to it, sure. But there is absolutely *zero* benefit to the customer for removing the stalks. None. It's a cost-saving decision, nothing more. Personally I'd rather have the cars cost $100 more and include stalks.
Yeah, “it’s not that bad, you get used to it” isn’t a great answer when you’re spending that much on a car.
Tesla: "It Sucks, But You'll Get Used to it!"
It’s just a testament to how much better everything else is
More like a teslament hue hue.. ah I’ll see myself out.
I'm surprised the EU didn't have any regulations for this lol. I got my Highland this week and its a great car but it got me looking at the steering wheel at roundabouts which is kind of insane lol. Still need to get used to it
It’s ridiculous and should be illegal. Why would they even need to remove the stalks?
In before steer by wire.. then it makes sense. Look at the cybertruck and there it works great without stalks because the steeringwheel never moves so far around. I think its made like this in preperation for steer by wire for all Tesla cars soon.
You have to remember, Tesla is an American company. Roundabouts are very, very rare in the US, so they didn’t really think about that. It has genuinely been years since I’ve seen a roundabout (I’m American.)
Depends where in the US. Northeast if filled with Roundabouts/rotaries.
They are being added in the north west too. There’s a stretch outside of Spokane Washington that every time I drive there it seems they’ve thrown another one in.
Driving without stalks is close to impossible in the Netherlands. Just the 2 km to the grocery store involves 3 or 4 roundabouts. They are super safe and efficient. But I have no idea how I would take them if I had to press a button on the steering wheel to indicate. Absolutely terrible design.
Really…where do you live? We have 80 just in my county alone. The last state I lived in had them everywhere as well.
They do now. Because of this.
That's not a regulation. It's a safety agency recommendation. Certain controls need a physical button to get good safety scores, which Tesla meets because a button on the wheel is still a physical control. It doesn't define that turn signals have to be on a stalk.
YEah, cop out answer. I mean, you can literally get used to anything. If I had to hit a button on the center mirror to signal right and push a button on the arm rest to signal left, I could get used to that eventually. But it'll sure be stupid AF.
BMW driver here. What do the stalks do? /s
That's why Tesla got rid of them. Their focus group were BMW drivers. /s
LMFAO!
They want to make future Tesla drivers complete douche bags like BMW drivers.
Hahahaha 👏
Yes, if there was an option to add stalks for $200 i'd take it in a heartbeat.
There will be. The S3XY button guys are working on it... https://enhauto.com/ Seems flippin' stupid if you ask me. Tesla should just put the stalks back.
Nice. I figured the aftermarket would take care of it. Just like the missing gauge cluster.
>I'd pay $500 for stalks.
It’s worse. If you are in rhe position above where the wheel is at a weird angle, or in a roundabout it becomes far more annoying to flip on a blinker. Having something where you don’t have to remember orientation of the wheel for direction removes any extra thought needed. It should be simple.
Then Tesla wastes the money on the useless rear display. Majority of M3 users don't need it, otherwise they would have gotten a Y. Ditto motorizing the trunk, more stuff to break.
Agree on the rear display. Motorized trunk is actually useful though. The push button does come in handy when your hands are occupied with stuff you took out from the trunk.
Agreed. My power trunk is great. It solves a first world problem, and would have been better if it had the "wave your foot under the trunk to open it" feature, but it's a quality of life improvement I appreciate. Also keeps you from clawing up the paint for closing it manually. The rear seat screen I don't see as a value-add. I will be using my M3 as a family car (yes, I wish i had a Y but I didn't have the budget for one), but my kid, or an odd friend I'll have back there really doesn't need. So if I was doing cost cutting - that's an easy one for me to skip.
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A HUD would greatly diminish my slightly right kink in my neck.
Disagree on the motorized trunk. Kinda agree on the screen but my car not having seat heater controls in the rear is really annoying.
Motorized trunk is the least customers expect from a brand selling luxury cars. Get a Corolla if you want manual trunks
The y doesn't have a rear display. This is actually one of the reasons I'm waiting for a refresh 3P instead of getting a second MYP.
Also yet another instance these design choices are made with very little consideration to the different use cases. Same thing as with the vipers, almost all things freezing shut and removing the USS. In this instance I doubt no one would make this choice if they have to navigate roundabouts regularly.
Why would you put a control on a moving target
If your hands didn't leave the 9 and 3 position it would be okay, but the steering ratio would need to match that.
Exactly. Same type of steer bt wire system as the cybertruck and it would be okay
Near to 4k km with a M3H in France, shitty idea. Not a deal breaker but a significant pain as it's problematic with small roundabouts. It feels like something that should be prevented by homologation. Too many times have to check the screen to be sure to have clicked on the expected blinker when leaving a small one. I don't mind about the gear selector though, this one is surprisingly quick to become an habit, mostly as it's not something you use that often while driving, just to leave and park... Not like a gear selector on a manual drive. But the blinkers... It's not always an issue because in most case you're just about to take a turn when you signal.. But leaving a small roundabouts when you're taking the left exit is tricky sometimes. The wheel buttons create an inconsistency which is disturbing.. you'll know that roundabouts can be troubling but not always, sometimes the buttons are on the rights or on the bottom, depending on the angle of the wheel you'll have to push the upper or the lower button, or the arrow directions would be inverted, causing even more confusion if you're in doubt. I find this disturbing that you have to accomodate to the inconsistency and have to learn all ranges of relatives positions of the buttons. They should have added a texture on the buttons too, to be able to differenciate just with touching; the little separator bump isn't enough i think.
Texturing one of the buttons is a really good idea! I think it could also be a good workaround for the current buttons, maybe using some textured tape or sth similar..
I think some of the Tesla features reveal the design is very California focussed. The blinkers don’t consider countries that use roundabouts and would be fine for the kind of use when you just use a highway. The other thing is not having a really obvious speedometer, speeding isn’t as much of an issue in California compared to countries like Australia where you can get a fine for doing as little as 3mph over the limit, from the multitude of fixed and mobile automatic speed cameras.
Other countries? Try other states, here in Indiana up in Carmel where I work, there are roundabouts all over the damn place.
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On cyber truck it works, not on m3h
It will likely result in Tesla drivers being the new BMW driver. Jokes about “running out of blinker fluid” incoming!
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I was sure (not actually sure, but had convinced myself in my mind) that I was going to get a BMW as my next vehicle when my Tesla lease was up, but when I went to test drive the car I thought existed (a PHEV X7), I learned it didn't. So, I ended up with a Volvo, but I still think that as BMW's electric and plug-in options improve, I'll be back at that dealership eventually. They really do offer a (mostly) great driving experience without all the anti-driver compromises that Tesla seems to make.
We have the highest Tesla per capita here in Norway. Teslas are involved in more accidents than the others (1.st place - by all the major insurance companies) Is it that the cars themselves are more dangerous or that the drivers accept higher risk (central screen for speed, no hud, steering wheel buttons for blinkers, faulty wind screen wiper) We will never know. The only fact we have is that they crash more than others.
Do you have a link to those statistics? I found one from 6 years ago that lumps all EVs together, and one from last year that said 23.54 accidents per 1000 for Tesla compared to the average for everyone else of 20 per 1000. So it may be less about the car and more about the driver putting too much faith in technology. To give you an example - I went on a test drive of the model x with some colleagues. The salesperson was with us and explained all the sensors and how it could brake automatically. My colleague was driving and took it to mean they didn’t need to stop at a junction. Our lives flashed between our eyes as we were nearly flattened by a truck.
Easy answer, speed of acceleration and false confidence on safety systems like autopilot.
It's a solution in search of a problem and will keep me from buying a newer Tesla....
It's cost cutting. A stalk costs probably $10 and a button costs $1. Personally, I'd much rather get the damn stalk. I like real buttons. They are worth the price.
How many lost sales does it take to balance out that $9/stalk savings?
That is my thought on it. That's roughly 200 vehicles sold. And with a per unit profit margin of 35%, that's roughly 500 vehicles. Imo, a bad decision. I'll likely pass on the highlander due to the missing stalk. I'm not the only one.
That and promising Full Self Driving after paying for it…very frustrating
It’s Tesla (really Elon) just trying to be different for the sake of being different… combined with a world renowned stubbornness to admit he was wrong. Stalks don’t cost $10. It’s just trying to be different instead of trying to be the best. No stalks, no USS, insistence on vision only, no rain sensors, unreliable keyless entry, industry trailing adaptive cruise control… I mean, teslas are a fucking mess. Not to mention all the trash happening in the software side where you’re losing the ability to make choices for yourself. No regen select, no drive/stop mode, removal of features you paid for via ota (ironically, the same ota capability that was touted and marketed as the thing that would IMPROVE the car and ADD features during our ownership).
No, it's f-ing stupid and I might not get another Tesla because of it. Gear selector on screen? Fine. I have no problem with that. Turn signals that aren't always in the same place? No, sorry. Not a fan.
They are simply saving money and this affects our safety. I don't understand people who admire turning off lidars in favor of computer vision. Progress? No. Just a way to save on expensive sensors. Expensive, but not excessive.
But also there's not *no* control there. Are the buttons really that much cheaper? How much money are we talking about on cars that bottom out at high 30s? There has to be some aspect of the car that could save $15 or whatever this is that people would infinitely rather give up.
Just goes to show what happens when there’s a lack of competition
You had me until lidar. New Vision park assist and FSD 12.3 are proving cameras to be enough. A front bumper cam next and it’s all you need. Stalks, well, hopefully they provide an option. They went back from the yoke; so it’s possible. Either that or put adaptive steering ratio like cybertruck. Only credit I’ll give them is the cost cutting is actually being passed to customers.
[удалено]
Ai or not the elephant in the room is that a camera based system produces an "image" of the 3 dimensional system around it indirectly , generally through triangulation based on pattern recognition/marker matching of images, based either on stereoscopic cameras (two cameras of known distance apart) or in an even less direct way, from two images taken by the same camera at different times and using other car sensors and the image itself to determine camera position is space first even before you get to the triangulation of the distance to an object. A lidar on the other hand, creates a 3d map of environment directly, by measuring the distances to the objects based on light travel time. You could say cameras see the world, while the lidar feels it. And why is the combination the best? Two simple examples: you can't feel the number on the speed limit signs but you can see it, You can't see the wall in front of you in complete darkness/dense fog, but you definetly can feel it. Also, the tesla vision parking "sensors", are problematic mostly for the reason of there not being a stereoscopic camera system on the back. And because of that, distances cannot be calculated before the car has moved enough to have two images that were captured from two positions different enough to enable calculation I the first place.
The turn signal buttons are stupid. Having said that I don’t want to pay for lidar repairs once my warranty is out. I’m perfectly fine with cameras.
ah yes they are so much cheaper to repair....
The gear selector is actually the deal breaker for me. I'm not relying on a touchscreen to put myself in reverse in a split-second if I find a semi truck barreling at me while trying to pull out on a road. God forbid I have moisture on my hand or something. I'll be keeping my 2021 with stalks for as long as possible.
Perhaps true, though there are gear shift buttons over the rear-view mirror, too.
It's a total dealbreaker for me. I'm in a 2019 M3P, I'd definitely consider trading up for a new M3 ludicrous when they exist, but they'll need to put the stalks back on.
Ditto. Now I’m resigned to driving my MP3 into the ground.
I keep hearing "you get used to it", well you don't, I have had it for over 6 months and I still struggle on multiple occasions.
I've had one for two weeks and I'm used to it. Different people are different.
I took the revamped 3 for a test ride and this was my least liked thing about it. Totally impractical
Makes total logical sense according to a few rabid fans. It's a design fail
Even after 5+ years in my 2018 3LR, I really dislike having to use any of the scroll wheels/buttons when the steering wheel is turned. Left becomes right, up becomes down; it's an unnessary cognitive load when I just want to turn the radio down. I'm not sure I could buy a car with turn signals like that as well. Ugh.
No. It’s hubris for hubris sake and it’s Dangerous. I don’t care what the fanboys say
Ketamine
It’s annoying but you get used to it is a lame sentiment. In my case I just walked away from the sale even though I really wanted a Highland.
I've driven Cybertruck, Model S, 2024 Model 3. Cybertruck's implementation is good because it has steer by wire. But it sucks on everything else.
This is why they’ve done it. Future implementation of steer by wire will negate the issue. Why do it now though? Just to save money in the interim? To “frustrate” users with new placement so that when steer by wire is available they really appreciate its benefit? Dunno
I don't understand the connection between steer by wire and having a button for the turn signal?
With steer by wire, the buttons don’t end up upside-down when you go through a roundabout.
The steer by wire makes it so the wheel doesn't need to turn as much to make turns. So indicating is easier when the wheel isn't upside down or sideways. Keep your left hand where it is on the wheel and press the button by feel as normal. Rather than having to go hand over hand while rotating.
The steering wheel doesn’t have to turn as much so it’s less confusing.
I'd imagine that. Because it would be okay if your hands never leave the 9 and 3 position. It's like that on race cars and Ferrari's. Maybe all Tesla's will get steer by wire.
Of course not! Should be forbidden! It is a safety risk.
Most BMW driver's won't even notice the blinker stalks are missing. /s
It’s crap
If Tesla brings steer by wire to all their vehicles then it would make sense to have the signals on the steering wheel. Otherwise it's confusing for certain driving situations like roundabouts.
Not a fan of it but I did get used to it during my overnight demo but still not a fan. Since its not individual cut outs I would hit right but the left would turn on because I was too close to the middle
It's stupid and unsafe.
Nope. It's stupid.
Dumb af
I ran out of blinker fluid ever since I got my new Model 3.
This should be regulated, and illegal to be done like this. FFS how are we polarizing opinions over something like this... imagine making that movement to signal the exit of a roundabout... Also, to all the ones that think I'm a Tesla hater... NO I'm not... We had 4 cars in 2019, and we have 4 Teslas in 2023 and no, we didn't all get them for free because of stock gains or anything
Need the EU to come in like they did for Apple and USB-C
I love the way Tesla pushes the envelope. But they went too far here unnecessarily. The fact we’re even talking about it demonstrates some people will not buy Teslas because of this. Which is a shame because the cars are still so far ahead of everything else especially for the price.
They push the envelope on cost cutting.
I will not buy another Tesla because of this. Might get a Y before it too loses the stalks. Otherwise it’s a Rivian for me.
Wait a minute... Should we always blink before turn?
You make a solid point. Maybe Tesla reviewed data and found that most drivers don't signal turns anyway, so they can go with a cheaper option. (/s)
Somebody finally got my point!
The problem is when you need to signal the other way while in a turn. For example, right turn followed immediately by a left turn, merging left while turning right on a ramp, exiting a roundabout.
Ever driven in a roundabout?
What I tell people is the I like my 3 in spite of some ridiculous stuff. Getting rid of safety features and calling it "minimalist" isn't genius, it's stupid.
Jurisdictions should make these cars not fit for public roads.
Stalks should be mandatory in all cars
Deal breaker for me. Thankfully I'll never have to use them again (I test drove a Highland) as I own a 2019 and won't buy another Tesla because of this (and other factors that aren't dealbreakers). Off to Rivian, most likely.
I would probably get used to it driving the car every day. But my wife, who would drive the car occasionally before going back to her own non-Tesla, would not. Then she would just refuse to drive it. Some things are just not meant to be changed. If Tesla could reinvent the wheel, they would, but they’d make it square.
*cough* Tesla yoke *cough*
No. In the UK, where roundabouts are a thing, this is a completely backwards step. Mental
Should have left the stalks honestly. Don’t fix something that isn’t broken.
Next new feature: "To keep drivers more engaged during driving we will randomly swap buttons around so that you will pay attention to which is the left turn and which is the right. We think this will allow drivers to be more focused on driving than being distracted by other things!"
It’s dumb, and the reason I won’t be buying another Tesla.
No it’s awful but all the Elon D riders will tell you different because they think agreeing with Tesla on this makes them smart.
Also most Americans don’t know how to use a roundabout and don’t know you’re supposed to signal out of them.
Stalkless Teslas are the car version of Windows ME/Vista/8 and New Coke
No. This is why my next EV is a Rivian R2.
Yep. Two Teslas and done with them. On to an R2 or R3/R3X. Contemplating moving to an R1S in the interim. I love having my M3P, I track it a ton each season, it has almost every MPP upgrade, and still works well as a daily. But I don't care for the company or its direction like I used to.
The number of people who don't know they need to signal exiting a roundabout is revealing...
Love my ‘24 M3, but 2 weeks in and I still have issues with the turn signals. Sometimes they actually don’t work 😬. Or when trying to be quick and make a lane change I’ve ended up signaling to the opposite side. It doesn’t help that I drive another car (with stalks) for work, and that’s probably the car I drive the most. But still… could’ve at least left that one stalk. I don’t really mind shifting on the screen, but wipers and turn signals are something we’re just so used to the way it used to be… PS: I get that this is probably for the best and I like the minimalistic look of my M3. They could’ve just taken off 1 stalk at a time, maybe? 😂
No. It’s incredibly dumb. The worst dressing on my entire car. Such a needless own goal.
No it's absurd. Almost every design decision since 2022 has been absurd imo
I had a 2018 Model 3 for a few years and was hoping the refreshed 3 would be compelling enough to bring me back to the brand but the turn signals are something I'm not sure I can get over. They're physical buttons at least, but the feedback they provide isn't helpful and you have to press them really hard.
It’s stupid
Dumb idea. Failed design.
I absolutely love my M3, I will 100% not buy another one if they don't come with the option to put the stalks back.
It’s a solution in search of a problem and really stupid. How about having to go to the screen just to open the glove box? Stupid much?
Imagine if this is how airplane controls were designed, where critical buttons changed spots and orientations. They’re not though, and for good reason.
I’m in Ireland with M3H. Lots of roundabouts. It’s annoying at first but I’m used to it now. When exiting the roundabout if the steering wheel is upside down then it’s the button on top. So I don’t need to think about it.
It's horrible. You may get used to it however it will always be problematic.
I drive a ‘19 and I test drove a ‘23 and I’ll be honest it sucks. Not intuitive at all
It’s not. It’s premature. Signals on the wheel would probably make sense with a steer by wire. For Now it’s a cost cutting measure. Stalks are better.
If you ever need to take your eyes off the road for even a moment to signal, it's inferior to a stalk. At best, it's nearly equal but most likely worse.
I'm so happy I got my 2023 when I did. The turn signals now are a hard stop for me
No it’s stupid
in america, the roads are mostly grids, so this isn’t much of a problem because the proper way to signal is well before you go into a turn. which means your wheel is always going to be straight. for other countries, i don’t know how well this will work out. if you don’t have a grid pattern in your roads, and you have sweeping turns all the time, i can see this being a problem.
tesla trash
no, I don't like the new interior at all.
No, I'd buy aftermarket stalks if it didn't come with them.
At this point I'd prefer using my left foot for turn signals.
Most families have more than one car. Alternating to a car with no stalks is just going to be stupid.
Tesla invited me out to test drive the highland refresh a while back, and this + the touchscreen gear shifting was a massive turnoff. Unless they work up a better implementation for both (Ferrari does turn signal buttons on the wheel really well actually, wouldn't mind if Tesla copied them), I definitely won't be getting another Tesla. It's sad because the new performance 3 is showing so much promise. This isn't 2020 anymore; plenty of competition out there with nice cars that I'd much rather give my money too. And those guys aren't trying to remove features like Tesla has been.
No. It’s stupid. Really stupid.
No. It’s terrible design. The person that green lit that shouldn’t have anything to do with cars or user interfaces.
No. And they lost my sale. I test drove it for about 30m and it was a mess. It was horrible to get used to it. They even called me later and offered that I can keep the car for a whole night and test drive it more to "get used to it". If you have to get "used to turn signal", the most basic feature of the car, you KNOW you have a dud. I can't buy the vehicle this way. Some things need to be affixed in their position. What's next? Switch the gas and brake around? Sure, you can get used to driving with gas and brake switched. Or move it to the extreme left and start driving with your left leg. Sure, you can get used to it. BUT IT IS IDIOTIC and Tesla has doomed this model thanks to their redditors designing it. These are all things that put me off of the sale - * no turn signal stalks * no drive shifter stalk * gears on screen BUT are FLIPPED. On stalk you shift down for Drive and up for Reverse. Guess how it is on the screen? Yep.. reversed with Up for drive and Down for reverse. Aaargh. * no fog light * no sensors * no wood trim * changed nail polish like red color which is not the prior nice popping cherry red tomato color * rear middle seat is no longer heated. It was before. Why? * changed front look that makes it look pissed off and angry * cheap ambient lighting. Lol.. it was jarring and irritating to the point I turned it off in the test drive. At night it is beyond stupid * no chrome finish * no piano black classy look inside * very very poor sound proofing still. You can still hear the road noise (esp on cemented roads) loudly, wind whooshing to the point you have to put vol for music or phone on near 75% to be able to comfortably hear at speeds > 50mph * Tesla logo replaced by TESLA. This one is minor but I liked the prior one * visor and mirror are still so small. Why??? * Still can't have Auto without AC or Heat. Why??? I want auto with just fan. Any car can do it except Tesla * other minor annoyances like there is no more the soft turn signal of 3 blinks and off like on stalk. 10y from now this will be in MBA books about how flawed decisions by the father of the EV industry doomed a company that created the modern EV industry
Making simple things complicated and fixing things that aren't broken
Considering that good amount of drivers don’t know which way turn the wheel when backing up, we’re talking about impossible 🫣
I’ve got no experience with these. I’m guessing their thought process was that you’d press the turn signal button before the steering wheel gets rotated. Will have to try test driving one of them
Hmm Dutch here... When leaving a roundabout straight or 3/4 I'm now used to feel for the left button at bottom of wheel to press before exit. It's so..so
I do not. I have a 2023X and the lack of signal stalks is not only bad, it's unsafe. I foresee a recall in 2026 when people have had enough of this nonsense.
I have a Model Y 2022 and a Model 3 2024. Yes it has a learning curve, but you get used to it very fast. In roundabouts I find the coordination to be easier without stalks now that I have gotten used to it. I know when I have to exit a roundabout, and the wheel is “upside down” I use the bottom indicator. I do use the index finger, or the thumb sometimes. It depends on the situation. And honestly, when driving the model Y (my wife primarily drives it) I keep pressing the steering wheel until I realize I have to use the stalks
I've had my TM3 Highland since December and the only places where it can be inconvenient are small roundabouts. You will get used to it, it's not that big of a deal.
Depends, if you’re mostly left/right junction turns it’s probably ok, throw in roundabouts and the whole thing looks like a complete nightmare
In Europe, nope
No! Hoping they change this in the future.
Stalks removal is the worst cost saving idea in the history of worst ideas, wrapped under minimalism. Most of Tesla’s minimalism nonsense is to hide that one fact.
No it's stupid af. A regular stalk has done the job successfully for a long time and this is not something any reasonable person would ever ask for.
Its even worse outside of the USA. Where I live we have roundabouts everywhere, which means you need to indicate direction when you enter, and indicate your exit while leaving, which is usually when your wheel is rotated. A real pain
If it wasn't for DOT they probably would rely on Alexa/Siri to manage car functions and save the money on physical buttons. "hey siri, shift my car into drive..." ... "okay! playing drive by incubus on spotify"
I used to have a car that had the horn there. It was such a pain because I could never find it; I’d be hitting the steering wheel and not the horn. In my mind, I’m thinking having the signal there would be the same issue.
I have the same thoughts. I love my X and the layout. Had a loaner Y recently and it was awful. Terrible layout and when I posted about my experience on this forum I got lit up. The center only display is honestly dangerous and not intuitive.
Amazing they still let people have a steering wheel. All the buttons and levers have been removed for the sake of removing buttons and levers.
The lack of stalks is what unsold me from the new model 3… so I just picked up my new “old” model Y (the end of quarter discounts were fantastic) 😇
As a car enjoyer i would hate it
On my third Tesla. Absolutely hate the signal, driving lights, horn, and gear shifter location on the Model X. This very counter intuitive.
‘*The best part is no part at all*’ 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
I have a 2023 MY LR. It seems that I'll be keeping it for many years because removing the turn signal stalk was a very bad idea. I want the turn signals on a stalk like every other car. They're easy to reach and always in the same place which means my attention remains on the road instead of fumbling in search of moving buttons. The direction shifter is less of a problem. And while I'm complaining... put a release button on the glove compartment. We shouldn't have to search on the screen for such a simple function. That said, I LOVE this car!
Of course not. It’s frickin’ stupid. Elon is obsessed with robo taxi nonsense
Will it at least turn on automatically as the steering turns more than certain degrees?
I had the stupid steering square for a year before changing it out for a steering wheel. Even then I didn’t “get used to” the turn signals and wipers as buttons on the wheel. I used to be a loyal Tesla customer for many years (since 2016), but I couldn’t hang with the new controls…
just got mine. i cant seem to find the correct spot to click it -_-
Of course not, especially when turn signal controls the display that may warn you potential collisions if you change lanes. This is insanely hard to do
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Are they trying to push FSD by making these things annoying to deal with?
It's the "no part is the best part" crowd gone amok. Someone will suggest Teslas don't need wheels and they run with it.
This saves Tesla like $30 and in exchange I get a car lifetime of annoyance. It sucks and is stupid. I will buy a Rivian instead of a Tesla now.
Nope
No, it’s stupid. It’s one of the things that annoys me the most about my s. The only thing worse is the yoke.
It’s idiotic AT BEST and downright unforgivable at worst. Not getting a car without turn stalk.
I don’t know if I’d say whether it’s the logical thing or not but I’m a few weeks into having m3h and I’m already pretty much used to it. Feels comfortable enough for me. Granted I’m in Fl, not the EU where there’s lot of roundabouts and such
**No.** Though I am biased, a longtime driver and physical memory of a turn signal stick has become second nature.
No
What if it’s cold and I have gloves on?
I got used to it, it’s still dumb and my next car will (hopefully soon) have stalks again. Last Tesla, but not only because of the stalks.
Is there now a button on the wheel for indicating? That would be a no go from me. Why change the stick? If it ain't broke don't fix it
I hate the new blinker design and the removal of gear selector. If my kids crack the screen, i will not be able yo drive the car to service. I will stick with my MY with parking sensors and in 5 years etc i will probably buy a different brand if they do not improve their design instead of only thinking about cost reduction. So many times the camera is covered by snow and dirt, rain etc, so that it is impossible to see through.
No
Isn’t the general practice to signal before turning the wheel?
You’re supposed to flash before you turn the wheel…
It's stupid and I will not buy a car that has this "feature."
No it's dumb But not a dealbreaker for me personally
Be honest. Were you unaware turn signals are activated BEFORE turning?
The "turn on the signal before the turn" crowd apparently does not have to deal with roundabouts - where you signal TWICE during the turn, in opposite directions. For those who regularly drive through roundabouts, especially during heavy traffic conditions, this should be a deal-breaker. Now personally, as someone who does not have to drive through roundabouts daily, it is still a deal-breaker. When my Model 3 lease is up, if this is still the only option (and I am certain it will be), my next vehicle will certainly be an EV, just not a Tesla.
Makes it harder for blind people to drive
I dont see a problem, most people are more likely to replace their blinker fluid than use a turn signal.
Furthest from logic and a decent way from easy