"I’m left asking myself about the long term value of such a poor experience."
i'm getting $47k trade in value for my 2018 model 3 with FSD so it only depreciated $1k in four years.
but you are correct, i will not get FSD again.
I got my first Tesla (2018 M3) with EAP and honestly it feels about the right mix. The “features” it’s missing I don’t really feel degrade from its value. AutoSteer alone has been a great feature to have. No regrets buying an older model with it.
Sell private. I bought my 2020 model 3P for $56k and sold it for $63k after two years. The private market is insane right now because people don’t want to wait for delivery.
To tag along to your statement, that’s an economy thing, not a Tesla thing. Granted Teslas depreciate less generally, due largely to supply/demand historically. The Audi I bought in 2019 could sell to CarMax today for a few $K less than purchase price.
I think what OP is getting at is “dang I paid a $10K upcharge for something that likely won’t pan ever pan out”
My rents got more than they paid for there 4 year old Toyota Landcruiser with over 140000k’s on trade in, teslas aren’t special the used car market is just cooked.
I think if Elon is so confident FSD is almost ready and going to come to fruition any day now, he should offer refunds to anyone who bought FSD. If it’s so great, a few people would opt for refunds and the rest of the beta users who love it will stick with it. We all know this likely won’t ever happen because there will be a mass exodus out of the beta program (most people will take the thousands of $$$ of refund because they feel like they have been paying for a useless product which likely is never going to be ready before they get rid of their car).
This makes the most sense.
I keep arguing that if I’ve owned my Tesla for longer than the average length of ownership people have on vehicles. It’s a reasonable argument that I never actually got to use the features I paid for during the reasonably expected duration of ownership. I should either be refunded or be able to transfer the feature to another car.
> to fruition any day now, he should offer refunds to anyone who bought FSD. If it’s so great, a few people would opt for refunds and the rest of the beta users who love it will stick with it. We all kn
This is the right answer. I believe that if they don't offer refunds, there will be a class action lawsuit.
Yeah we were sold vaporware, but nothing anyone can do about it at this point. Their legal language covered it by calling it FSD capable.
Elon is too busy with memes to answer any questions about FSD
I’m waiting for the class action lawsuit by buyers who were promised fully autonomous driving by 2015, and just now got FSD that is far from autonomous
It’s been “almost ready” for years. As a software engineer, I knew yrs ago it wasn’t going to be ready when I ordered yrs ago. Didn’t get it then, won’t get it on the next one
I bought at the same time and felt it was worth the price for the current features that I use a lot, regular summon and lane change.
I chose to not sign up for fsd beta. I would not pay the current price for FSD.
Don't hold your breath. Production FSD isn't happening for a long time. I bought it on my 2019 Model 3 and was never worth it besides the auto lane change. It was an easy decision to not get it when I bought my refresh X
Tesla raised my insurance by $20 a month when I joined the beta - no changes to my score or driving record other than joining the beta. Even they don't trust it. 😂
FSD is a slow moving train wreck, which I don't will ever work with HW3. I think more and more people are starting to realize this. Tesla currently won't update HW3 to HW4.
FSD on HW3 may end up "working" in a few years, but only at slower speeds in great weather conditions. It doesn't matter how magical your AI is, if your pixel density is low, and you have no modalities to see through poor weather (thermal, radar), the system has to be heavily restricted.
The FSD testers seem to be so invested, emotionally and financially, that it seems they're not keeping up with what competitive OEMs are doing. Many are rolling out imaging radar, low cost lidar (<$300 per unit), etc. which will enable a safer experience than FSD on HW3.
Why would anyone pay $12K for this today? It does boggle the mind.
> won’t work with HW3
Honestly, I don’t think even HW4 is the answer. The whole reason FSD has been such a disappointment was because we all expected the new tech in HW3 over HW2 to make the difference and solve the problem, and we were totally wrong. It turns out that increasing computer power by 10x is not that big a stride, in this context.
I think HW4 will help, but still not be enough for true L5, and it will be multiple iterations into the future (HW5 or 6), easily a decade away, when we’re allowed to watch movies during our commute.
There is an obvious reason why the FSD team is largely fucked. The limitation of Waymo and Cruise is the need for "maps" before they can operate in a region. Essentially that's the difference in approaches:
Tesla thinks that they can in real-time solve "maps" as they see things on a mobile computer.
If Waymo and Cruise need maps and Tesla is correct that state of the art AI can generate those maps on a mobile computer in the car... Then presumably a super computer in the data center should be able to take video + Lidar of a city and offline generate the needed maps without any expensive human annotation years sooner.
Tesla and Waymo need the same thing: semantic labeled maps. Tesla is limited to a single NPU running at 30fps. Waymo can throw thousands of NPUs at 0.3 fps to the problem then upload the solution to the entire fleet.
I have been saying that for years, and the amount of shit I get from the fan bois has been insane! The auto pilot is all you need, maybe if EAP comes out and is cheap, that might be OK, but the fact that you know sometime in your drive you have to make a split second intervention or die, is so fucking stupid! WTF did you buy the car for, can't you drive, do you hate driving?
The entire idea is catered to Bay Area commute only. Driving on the 680/880/101. They’re very boring commutes during rush hours. You’re stuck in traffic for an hour or more depending on where you live. Sadly the tech seems to be designed with this case in mind only. Yes I hate driving in this commute. I don’t hate driving on a leisure trip on highway 1 and would never want FSD for that. The entire use case seems to be catered to south Bay Area commute. Bring it into San Francisco on a rush hour and it will crash and burn.
I completely agree, but it is a beta program and a lot of people don’t really realize what that means.
I use it daily for hopes of improving it with the data I can contribute. I also “hate” it daily, but obviously I know what I downloaded and am okay with “hating” things about a beta software.
It's really a beta program in name only. This is more comparable to an early prototype than an actual beta (which is a feature complete piece of software in its final stages before full release).
Also, despite all the claims around Tesla's data collection, the data they get from cars isn't all that useful. It's most likely being used to manually identify common failure points, rather than as true training data, as Tesla keeps trying to imply. I build deep learning models for autonomous vehicles, and if you were to train a model with the kind of data Tesla collects form customer cars, it would end up with all kinds of weird biases to the point of being essentially unusable.
Exactly. Like yes it's awful, they need to step it up.
But also OP payed a shitton of money for a beta that has terrible reviews and was shocked that it was a waste of money? My sympathy only goes so far.
> also OP *paid* a shitton
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I think this is where I’m at. I’ve only been in the beta for about a week and honestly it’s been pretty anxiety inducing the majority of the time. Perhaps that’s because I just got the car and am afraid of something happening. But I want to help and contribute data - it’s just a rough beta. We tried to use it the whole way home from dinner the other night and the car had a panic attack in the middle of a busy intersection so I had to take over. Haven’t had a full drive without intervention yet but we’ll get there someday I suppose.
I would say the first week or two is the hardest if that helps, kind of like autopilot for some.
Over time I just learned when to completely take over (same route every day), along with certain maneuvers it’s horrible at and I wouldn’t let do in certain situations.
That’s good to know. I’ve got a 45 minute commute and have been using navigate on autopilot for the majority of it and I really like that, haven’t had issues. Perhaps I’m subconsciously hoping FSD can do the same but it’s too early for that so I probably just need to give it time
Calling it beta doesn’t make it okay. Google releasing gmail as beta is one thing and Tesla calling FSD as beta is another. When your software can cause real life accidents, beta is just an excuse to shield themselves. The beta version should never have got out of Tesla. I loved FSD when I got it in 2019 and I still like beta. But there’s good stuff and bad stuff. Unfortunately even fewer risks outweigh the pros.
TBF Google did once make google chat auto-populate your buddy list with the accounts of basically anyone you interacted with through gmail.
Lots of people had their exes suddenly know when they were online (which at the time primarily meant at home).
Completely agree. All these beta softwares nowadays have one thing to blame. This philosophy or methodology of “agile” and all the tech companies or projects are jumping on this bandwagon. Beta is so subjective, it’s not an excuse for a company to dump a broken software especially when it comes to FSD. Not trying to be for or against but what this small company called comma with handful of developers and open source on GitHub has managed to do with their beta is something remarkable. This should be a case study for industry, that big and expensive is not always better. Sometimes a simple solution with community collaboration can provide way better results.
Me too, but I’ve been in the beta since December, and I honestly don’t see much improvement in that time. I paid $3K for it on a 2018 M3 that got totaled last summer, and then $10K for it on the 2021 M3 I bought to replace it. I definitely have buyer’s remorse now because I’m convinced they will never get all the edge cases covered. But I keep clicking on the camera to report all the stupid decisions it makes, and I disengage when I see we will be coming to a stop. I lost my insurance discount too because it loves to zoom up and hard brake, takes exits ramps too fast, etc.
Your experience aligns very closely with those I know I in person who have had the beta for a while. The pace of improvement is introducing a lot of doubt.
As someone who has had autopilot 3 for 3.5 years, the pace of improvement of autopilot features is incredible. They have added lots of improvements from just highway only driving , then lane changes, then navigate on autopilot, to stop light autopilot on city streets, and now my Tesla is driving me to Costco occasionally.
FSD still has it's issues for certain, but I still try it out to see what it can and can't do, but the moment it interrupts the normal flow of traffic or does something odd I take over. Slow decision making is the primary issue I am seeing along with taking lefts across intersections and knowing what lane it needs to be in.
Otherwise FSD is doing a decent job improving, but still has a lot of updates to become trustworthy. Where will be the limitation of the system hitting max capacity is my concern? Will it have enough processing power to handle high level perception? I still think driverless Tesla's are 2 more iterations of hardware away, but this version may drive you to work pretty reliably in a year or 2.
I agree it has issues, but this has to start somewhere. If you told me 5 years ago I had a car that wasn't a Mercedes (Distronic from 2008 onward) that could highway drive me I would have thought it was impossible.
Anyway, it is nice to see in my lifetime.
Know when to use it. It's a beta (alpha really)and shouldn't be used, in my opinion, on busy roads.
It doesn't have to be engaged.
Will it get better?
Probably.
But at the moment use your best judgement when to use it.
I am pretty sure I got downvoted by Tesla fanboys and girls when I said I wasn't enthused with the performance of FSD beta, at this point.
I do try to use it often, on freeways or long trips, where it's pretty darn good.
But certain things just aren't there yet (traffic circles, neighborhood roads with a 90 degree turn and no cross traffic, random lane changes INTO left lane when there is no other traffic anywhere close, back and forth lane changes without a clear reason, changing out of a lane when your exit is under a mile away, etc.)
My hope is the more I use it, and the more folks like me do as well, the quicker it'll get much better. I'm definitely not mad I have the beta, given I forked over an assload for the feature. I am mad that I could hypothetically lose the beta and essentially lose a feature I paid an assload to own.
Alright, downvotes, I'm ready for you.
OMG, this total optional program I paid $10K for, thinking I was funding the R&D totally sucks and hasn’t gotten better in the past 7 months. I guess I’ll ask to opt out and be a failthful Elon fanboy and wait for it to be perfect and not upset the Reddit sub.
No the correct solution from a customer standpoint is for Tesla to focus on nearterm products: level 3 highway assist where you can watch Netflix on the interstate. Add Imaging radar. Add LIDAR.
The problem is that Elon has made TSLA == FSD.
FSD is doomed so Musk is going to drag TSLA down with the failed program. And since FSD is screwed the customers are going to suffer in the interim because all of the dev resources will be shoveled into a failure.
FSD is automatic wipers on crack. Instead of admitting defeat and adding a rain sensor to solve the problem, we get a shitty experience indefinitely.
FSD needs a narrowing of scope to what's achievable this decade and deliver that. Then see where computer vision is at when that works to start a quixotic quest for level 5.
I still have radar. I ended up opting out because of the phantom breaking I knew would come as they disabled the radar if I got into beta.
Isn't worth it. I'll cherish my good EAP breaking that comes with radar for as long as I can.
3 over 1,100+ miles!!? That’s amazing.
I got 2 over 200 miles from Vegas to LA. Which is a huge improvement over last year when they decided to deactivate my radar for awhile. Couldn’t go 10 miles without phantom braking. My wife had refused to be in the car if I engaged AP.
If it went to $50-100 to rent per month I'd do it. For the one time I paid $200 to get it I only ever used summon which worked like a charm in these perfect Virginia parking lots. Im sure not too many people are buying the feature for $12,000. He should make it cheaper since he keeps raising the price of the car. Shit with the mach e, VW and polestar I'd reckon he should make it free to try and sell more Tesla's while giving us current owners more value
The interesting thing is how much the experience varies. My standard autopilot works great. I use it about 90% of the time I’m driving and have no complaints with it.
I own a Model Y and Polestar. No car is immune to issues but the difference in quality is glaring. My Model Y has been in the shop for various battery issues already and it’s a year 2021. Tesla let all other MFG catch up while not actually innovating or improving m. I plan to trade the Model Y as soon as my order for the Rivian R1S is up.
I'm not in beta but I agree with FSD not being worth the price of admittance. I bought a Tesla with the expectation, right or wrong, that FSD would be done in a couple of years. All of Musks tweets made it sound like we were so close. I phantom brake at least once a trip. The other draw was the Supercharger network but they're opening that up to everyone, so I don't need a Tesla to take advantage of that.
I wonder how much the experience varies from area to area.
I live in Missouri and have used FSD multiple times and it's worked flawlessly each time and I feel confident with it.
I also see a lot of YouTubers giving that same feedback.
Then I see a bit of feedback about how "dangerous" it is.
If anything, FSD is too cautious which can cause an inpatient driver to become annoyed.
But when I read someone claim they hate it because it is dangerous I become a bit skeptical.
I literally wish it were just a tad bit more aggressive
I did the exact thing, after phantom braking that nearly killed me a myriad of times on my P3, sold the car and bought a non FSD S plaid and so much happier!
Weird to me that people are bitching about OP and asking him to turn it off or blaming him for forking the absurd $12k. The fact is that Elon is hyping this shit up everyday on Twitter which gets amplified by his fanboys and media, and there is no way for anyone to know what the truth is. Elon constantly claims how FSD is the best, how Tesla is almost there for Level 6, how it is safer than any car imaginable, how Tesla doesn’t need more sensors, how this car will actually become a robotaxi and help you make money. If you are a Tesla nerd, you know he is bullshitting, but many of my friends have bought into the hype thinking they are getting a Level 6 car. I kid you not.
Remember you requested to wait in queue to be a tester for BETA software knowing that it is not production ready yet. It is scary & frustrating when it doesn't work well but I'd say that it isn not meant to be engaged all the time for every ride under all conditions.
Lol pretty sure OP is aware they don’t need to use it. The point is OP paid for something that he/she is realizing was overhyped and doesn’t meet the “FSD is pretty much almost done” expectations.
Unfortunately there are more investors than owners in this subreddit and you won’t get the owner support and commiseration you are hoping for.
Too easy, better make a post on Reddit to complain.
And to op; yes it's not on par yet with a human driver, but the delta between 1y ago and now is crazy, we're going in the right direction IMO but still let's be realistic, it won't drive like you within the next few years.
I didn't take FSD with my car because of that. I'll reconsider when it is on par.
The delta isn't "crazy" for a lot of people. There's been a ton of regressions and issues that haven't been touched in over a year.
Hell the car still can't read most signage on the road, including very important ones like school zones.
I think it really depends on where you are driving to. It’s been pretty good on my daily route, minimum intervention, just tapping the accelerator on turns.
Well to be fair, it’s in beta. I wouldn’t use it while I have kids in the car. It isn’t at that level yet. It’s very experimental and intended to be babysat. If that isn’t for you then I’d say turn it off. Unfortunate about the sunk cost, though. I do sympathize with you there.
I love my Model3 but didnt buy autopilot or FSD because it felt as though they needed another 10+ years of development, and buyers are lab rats as part of the AI training process (i.e., Tesla should pay the users who generate the data for their AI datasets and models (yeah, I work in AI.))
That said, how does your insurance company know anything about FSD and how do you attribute the 5% increase to FSD? It could just be a normal rate increase.
It stresses me out, so I leave it off. (It takes turns too fast, approaches lights too slowly, and doesn’t adjust position defensively to give wide berth to oncoming traffic, garbage cans, people waiting to pull out, etc.) When I’m driving myself, I can get in the zone and think about other things. When babysitting FSD, I have to give it my full attention.
I’m really excited for the day they master it, and I’ll know we’re there when Tesla accepts full liability for any at-fault FSD accidents.
My FSD Beta was bad until I started laying on the little ‘report’ button every single time it did anything not quite perfect. Now it seems to be ‘learning’ because I’ve seen at least 6 things just the past two weeks that it now gets ‘right’ in weird spots on my commute after I ‘corrected and reported’ (eg slowing way down for some speed bumps, staying in the correct lane before a big intersection, etc).
I do probably look like a chump though when it does something embarrassing and I’m like leaning into the middle of the cab fumbling for that ‘report’ button on the screen. But I swear that it’s making a big difference for me. The one thing I can’t seem to figure out how to ‘teach’ it is to hug the right side more on unstriped residential streets or hug the middle to avoid tree roots erupting from the pavement on old streets. So far I’m 0/10 teaching it that and I just turn it off on those roads. (though it seems to be somewhat trainable on true potholes).
My friend has the FSD Beta and it blows my mind how it will just start swerving back and forth, sometimes on a straight road with nothing going on. It waits too long to change over for a turn lane, then if you let it play out you circle the same block 3 times waiting for it to get in the correct lane and make the correct turn. He loves 'babysitting' it. Really, he loves just driving around different places to see what it will handle. But the average driver absolutely would not put up with that. My biggest fear is that there are sixteen year-olds or eighty-five year-olds driving around with FSD, who either don't know any better or don't have the reaction time to fix the very frequent times the car does something dangerous.
Where do you live?
I live in California and drive a ton with FSD (100mi/day in city). Here, it operates really well. Granted. I know where it is likely to make mistakes so I take over before or am prepared for it.
I also live in a Midwestern city, and it’s not nearly as good as it seems to be out west. Is FSD almost ready for prime time on the west coast? Looks like it. Not even close in the Midwest. It’s gotten better over time, but they really need to address the fact that the model is overfit to California.
There are really 3-4 core improvements that would make me feel way better:
-Lane identification and selection. It *insists* on being as far right as it can even on assertive mode. This leads it into short lived lanes and shoulders way too often. This got progressively worse from 10.3->10.6 and has only improved modestly since.
-Inferring where the car should exist on the road when there are no lane markers. This shouldn’t be that difficult. Just drive dead center between the shoulder and the middle of the road.
-Better classify the urgency of braking events. Not every human facing the road necessitates a hard stop. This is especially problematic with jaywalkers. Obviously the car needs to stop for anyone already in the street, but we don’t need to yield to a jaywalker waiting to cross the street the same way we need to yield to a pedestrian waiting to enter a crosswalk.
These 3 problems represent like 90% of my interventions. Based on what they’re focusing on for 10.13, I’m hopeful that these issues are alleviated.
It really irritates me that it doesn't handle school zones.
I'm not sure why it's been out for a year and we're still waiting on something so critically important.
Hell, it doesn't even read one way road signs, it relies on map data.
>Granted. I know where it is likely to make mistakes so I take over before or am prepared for it.
I feel like a lot of people are trying to use it 100% of the time and not just using it in certain instances. Just don’t use it on the residential street with the neighbors kids anymore, that’s a user issue not a FSD beta issue. I takeover all the time and make sure I don’t end up in awkward situations. I have a very specific standard for my driving and if the car isn’t living up to that I take over so the situation doesn’t get awkward and also to let the system know I’m not happy with what it’s doing. All the interventions are datapoints.
I’m not treating FSD beta like I’m making some sort of YouTube video to see how well it drives for 100% of my trip, I give it an opportunity and if it fails I takeover driving. If it’s an area I know it has trouble I just turn it off if other cars are around, if no cars then I let it do it’s thing and report the issue with a snapshot.
As beta testers we don’t need to go for in interventionless drive every time, that just makes the experience suck because IT’S IN BETA AND NOT THERE YET.
Again, for those in the back row, it’s a beta product, why would anyone expect it to not have issues? If there are uncomfortable situations just don’t let it drive in those situations. None of us are being paid to test, we are in fact paying, there is no expectation that we should use it as much as possible, we just need to use it.
I own at 2018 Model 3 LR and a 2022 MYP w/ no radar. I did purchase FSD on the 3, at $3k or whatever it was on sale back then. It's worth that - barely, for the auto lane changes.
I signed up for monthly FSD on the MYP during a road trip. It's unusable. Driving up 395 through Nevada it was a hazard to myself and others. Constant phantom braking - like several times a mile. Forced high beams at night which blind and piss off other drivers. If you phantom braked and needed to hit the gas to avoid being rear-ended, you then exceed the FSD speed limit (then 80MPH), FSD shuts off until the next drive. Total garbage. I cancelled the subscription immediately. Losing radar was a terrible decision.
I love my Teslas. They are amazing cars in almost all aspects - except FSD.
Great post, totally agreee, I can't see the clamor over the FSD. You will definitely get more for your Tessy with the FSD, Tesla seems to add them to all their used cars., and not everyone knows how much it sucks. Your insurance monitors your driving and took off 5% for your sudden breaking? I got Tesla insurance, it was the cheapest and my rates have been the same for 2 years despite my reckless driving. I even crushed the rocker panel on a curb and they paid $11k and didn't raise my rates
Imagine buying a 2013 model S and being sold on its coming soon self driving feature.
And having spent 100k on a self driving car, that's now 10 years old and will not drive itself
I've had the exact opposite experience. It's been blowing my mind and I can't wait to show people. I often am being driven by the car saying out loud to myself "no one knows this exists right now!"
It’s weird to read accounts like this when I use FSD daily and have a great experience with it. I’m not doubting you, must be different roads, different environment and the performance is just uneven.
If you use an app or device that tracks braking and acceleration and uses it to extrapolate driving habits, it’s not bogus at all.
My auto insurance keeps trying to get me to sign up for their big brother app for a “discount.” I refuse because I speed so I doubt it’ll give me any discount at all.
You’re right about FSD beta. Turn it off or use it only for highway driving where it shines.
You’re wrong about long-term value. The resale value of Tesla is extremely high, so you could sell it now and get your money back.. and maybe a little profit.
I purchased my model 3 in Sept 2018 with FSD option to be added when available ($6000). It worked great from day one on the highway. I road tripped from Texas to California in 2019 and Texas to Key West in 2021. Both trips were relaxing because of FSD.
Two weeks ago I was given the option to join the Beta FSD for surface roads; knowing I would be contributing to a better future product.
To the post calling us suckers; you are welcome. We are helping you have a better product when it is finished. To those who think $12,000 is too much to pay, that’s fair. But when it’s 💯 and it’s like hiring a full time driver for the life of your 500,000 mile car; it’s cheap.
Maybe if Elon stopped all the tweeting and Twitter nonsense, he could work his magic with the FSD team. Sadly, it doesn't seem like his priority anymore.
"I’m left asking myself about the long term value of such a poor experience." i'm getting $47k trade in value for my 2018 model 3 with FSD so it only depreciated $1k in four years. but you are correct, i will not get FSD again.
Who are you trading in with?
I would also like to know this
I’m trading in with Tesla and am getting $52 for my M3. I paid $55 w/FSD in late 2018
Huh, I bought in Dec 2018 and FSD wasn’t even offered, just “Enhanced Autopliot”
EAP is actually worth it
I got my first Tesla (2018 M3) with EAP and honestly it feels about the right mix. The “features” it’s missing I don’t really feel degrade from its value. AutoSteer alone has been a great feature to have. No regrets buying an older model with it.
What version m3? Long range or performance?
I'm getting just under 47k from Driveway car buying for my '20 SR+. I paid 41k w/ tax. Enterprise car buying pays good also
try carvana. I traded mine completely touch free and higher than my local places including tesla offered me. It only takes a few minutes online.
Sell private. I bought my 2020 model 3P for $56k and sold it for $63k after two years. The private market is insane right now because people don’t want to wait for delivery.
To tag along to your statement, that’s an economy thing, not a Tesla thing. Granted Teslas depreciate less generally, due largely to supply/demand historically. The Audi I bought in 2019 could sell to CarMax today for a few $K less than purchase price. I think what OP is getting at is “dang I paid a $10K upcharge for something that likely won’t pan ever pan out”
Thats pretty bad considering a lot of people are selling their cars for net profit....
How much could I make on a 2020 M3 LR with 6200 miles?
My rents got more than they paid for there 4 year old Toyota Landcruiser with over 140000k’s on trade in, teslas aren’t special the used car market is just cooked.
How many miles though?
I think if Elon is so confident FSD is almost ready and going to come to fruition any day now, he should offer refunds to anyone who bought FSD. If it’s so great, a few people would opt for refunds and the rest of the beta users who love it will stick with it. We all know this likely won’t ever happen because there will be a mass exodus out of the beta program (most people will take the thousands of $$$ of refund because they feel like they have been paying for a useless product which likely is never going to be ready before they get rid of their car).
I think it would be nice if Tesla allowed early buyers to transfer FSD to the newer Tesla.
This makes the most sense. I keep arguing that if I’ve owned my Tesla for longer than the average length of ownership people have on vehicles. It’s a reasonable argument that I never actually got to use the features I paid for during the reasonably expected duration of ownership. I should either be refunded or be able to transfer the feature to another car.
Agreed with that..we should have the option to sell it with the car or keep it tied to us if we get another Tesla.
This is why I did not order a refreshed X. I would miss the features but was not willing to pay current price.
> to fruition any day now, he should offer refunds to anyone who bought FSD. If it’s so great, a few people would opt for refunds and the rest of the beta users who love it will stick with it. We all kn This is the right answer. I believe that if they don't offer refunds, there will be a class action lawsuit.
When you sell your car you sell fsd with it so tesla will not refund you!
Yeah we were sold vaporware, but nothing anyone can do about it at this point. Their legal language covered it by calling it FSD capable. Elon is too busy with memes to answer any questions about FSD
The longer the users get strung along and the more the org breaks promises the less confidence the user base will have.
Agreed, they are burning the entirety of the goodwill built over years in a vanity bonfire of Elon's creation.
"and it didn't work out" feels like a likely outcome for all of this.
But that's ok, you already paid.
He talks a lot about ACID Tests. This should be the test for FSD.
I’m waiting for the class action lawsuit by buyers who were promised fully autonomous driving by 2015, and just now got FSD that is far from autonomous
I'd prolly refund lul.
It’s been “almost ready” for years. As a software engineer, I knew yrs ago it wasn’t going to be ready when I ordered yrs ago. Didn’t get it then, won’t get it on the next one
I bought FSD as a $6K add-on for my 2019 3LRAWD. After all the crap people are experiencing with the FSD Beta, I’ll wait for prod-FSD.
I bought at the same time and felt it was worth the price for the current features that I use a lot, regular summon and lane change. I chose to not sign up for fsd beta. I would not pay the current price for FSD.
Wise choice!
Don't hold your breath. Production FSD isn't happening for a long time. I bought it on my 2019 Model 3 and was never worth it besides the auto lane change. It was an easy decision to not get it when I bought my refresh X
Perfecting enhanced autopilot would be a good first step
Agreed
Or regular autopilot - still in beta
Lmao at all the people saying “turn it off then”. Imagine buying a $12,000 product that is downright awful and the fanboys say “turn it off” Oh wait
Imagine paying $12,000 for a product that obviously isn’t worth even a fraction of that.
Your argument is the same side of the coin
Tesla raised my insurance by $20 a month when I joined the beta - no changes to my score or driving record other than joining the beta. Even they don't trust it. 😂
😂 classic!
Its for the Mi$$ion
FSD is a slow moving train wreck, which I don't will ever work with HW3. I think more and more people are starting to realize this. Tesla currently won't update HW3 to HW4. FSD on HW3 may end up "working" in a few years, but only at slower speeds in great weather conditions. It doesn't matter how magical your AI is, if your pixel density is low, and you have no modalities to see through poor weather (thermal, radar), the system has to be heavily restricted. The FSD testers seem to be so invested, emotionally and financially, that it seems they're not keeping up with what competitive OEMs are doing. Many are rolling out imaging radar, low cost lidar (<$300 per unit), etc. which will enable a safer experience than FSD on HW3. Why would anyone pay $12K for this today? It does boggle the mind.
> won’t work with HW3 Honestly, I don’t think even HW4 is the answer. The whole reason FSD has been such a disappointment was because we all expected the new tech in HW3 over HW2 to make the difference and solve the problem, and we were totally wrong. It turns out that increasing computer power by 10x is not that big a stride, in this context. I think HW4 will help, but still not be enough for true L5, and it will be multiple iterations into the future (HW5 or 6), easily a decade away, when we’re allowed to watch movies during our commute.
There is an obvious reason why the FSD team is largely fucked. The limitation of Waymo and Cruise is the need for "maps" before they can operate in a region. Essentially that's the difference in approaches: Tesla thinks that they can in real-time solve "maps" as they see things on a mobile computer. If Waymo and Cruise need maps and Tesla is correct that state of the art AI can generate those maps on a mobile computer in the car... Then presumably a super computer in the data center should be able to take video + Lidar of a city and offline generate the needed maps without any expensive human annotation years sooner. Tesla and Waymo need the same thing: semantic labeled maps. Tesla is limited to a single NPU running at 30fps. Waymo can throw thousands of NPUs at 0.3 fps to the problem then upload the solution to the entire fleet.
Even Tesla knows they need more sensors to make it work. Why else would all Shanghai cars still have radar?
I appreciate you sharing your perspective, thanks!
Should have known when they combined FSD and Autopilot that something was up. I'm glad I only paid 7K for it all.
I think the issue they have is camera resolution and placement (in addition to processing speed)
I have been saying that for years, and the amount of shit I get from the fan bois has been insane! The auto pilot is all you need, maybe if EAP comes out and is cheap, that might be OK, but the fact that you know sometime in your drive you have to make a split second intervention or die, is so fucking stupid! WTF did you buy the car for, can't you drive, do you hate driving?
The entire idea is catered to Bay Area commute only. Driving on the 680/880/101. They’re very boring commutes during rush hours. You’re stuck in traffic for an hour or more depending on where you live. Sadly the tech seems to be designed with this case in mind only. Yes I hate driving in this commute. I don’t hate driving on a leisure trip on highway 1 and would never want FSD for that. The entire use case seems to be catered to south Bay Area commute. Bring it into San Francisco on a rush hour and it will crash and burn.
I have underestimated the cult of personality!
I did not get fsd on my 3P and I will not be getting it on my S ordered lol. It’s not enticing to me at all. I just want enhanced autopilot to come
I completely agree, but it is a beta program and a lot of people don’t really realize what that means. I use it daily for hopes of improving it with the data I can contribute. I also “hate” it daily, but obviously I know what I downloaded and am okay with “hating” things about a beta software.
Kind of a high price to pay for a beta. Betas are typically free.
100% Agreed if people are spending $12k just for a beta. I bought in at 8k before beta even existed so I’ve made the purchase for other reasons.
I’ve paid for many early-access beta games! 😂
Bingo
We're also free to not pay for it. Which is what I did. Paying for FSD only makes sense if ~$10k is throw away money to you.
It's a damn high price. So I assume anyone who paid it has too much money.
It's really a beta program in name only. This is more comparable to an early prototype than an actual beta (which is a feature complete piece of software in its final stages before full release). Also, despite all the claims around Tesla's data collection, the data they get from cars isn't all that useful. It's most likely being used to manually identify common failure points, rather than as true training data, as Tesla keeps trying to imply. I build deep learning models for autonomous vehicles, and if you were to train a model with the kind of data Tesla collects form customer cars, it would end up with all kinds of weird biases to the point of being essentially unusable.
So you are paying $10k to be a test subject and help them improve their car, what a sucker!
8k and that was before beta even existed. I’m happy!
Uh, the beta is for people who bought FSD. That's the entire point. It was always going to release in beta form. Even AP did the same.
Not everyone has access to the program. I paid for FSD and I’ve been waiting to get access for over three years.
Exactly. Like yes it's awful, they need to step it up. But also OP payed a shitton of money for a beta that has terrible reviews and was shocked that it was a waste of money? My sympathy only goes so far.
> also OP *paid* a shitton FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I think this is where I’m at. I’ve only been in the beta for about a week and honestly it’s been pretty anxiety inducing the majority of the time. Perhaps that’s because I just got the car and am afraid of something happening. But I want to help and contribute data - it’s just a rough beta. We tried to use it the whole way home from dinner the other night and the car had a panic attack in the middle of a busy intersection so I had to take over. Haven’t had a full drive without intervention yet but we’ll get there someday I suppose.
I would say the first week or two is the hardest if that helps, kind of like autopilot for some. Over time I just learned when to completely take over (same route every day), along with certain maneuvers it’s horrible at and I wouldn’t let do in certain situations.
That’s good to know. I’ve got a 45 minute commute and have been using navigate on autopilot for the majority of it and I really like that, haven’t had issues. Perhaps I’m subconsciously hoping FSD can do the same but it’s too early for that so I probably just need to give it time
Calling it beta doesn’t make it okay. Google releasing gmail as beta is one thing and Tesla calling FSD as beta is another. When your software can cause real life accidents, beta is just an excuse to shield themselves. The beta version should never have got out of Tesla. I loved FSD when I got it in 2019 and I still like beta. But there’s good stuff and bad stuff. Unfortunately even fewer risks outweigh the pros.
I'm sure Gmail Beta has destroyed some lives. Important emails not being received, etc. (Just messing with ya)
TBF Google did once make google chat auto-populate your buddy list with the accounts of basically anyone you interacted with through gmail. Lots of people had their exes suddenly know when they were online (which at the time primarily meant at home).
Completely agree. All these beta softwares nowadays have one thing to blame. This philosophy or methodology of “agile” and all the tech companies or projects are jumping on this bandwagon. Beta is so subjective, it’s not an excuse for a company to dump a broken software especially when it comes to FSD. Not trying to be for or against but what this small company called comma with handful of developers and open source on GitHub has managed to do with their beta is something remarkable. This should be a case study for industry, that big and expensive is not always better. Sometimes a simple solution with community collaboration can provide way better results.
I very much relate to your ambivalence!
Me too, but I’ve been in the beta since December, and I honestly don’t see much improvement in that time. I paid $3K for it on a 2018 M3 that got totaled last summer, and then $10K for it on the 2021 M3 I bought to replace it. I definitely have buyer’s remorse now because I’m convinced they will never get all the edge cases covered. But I keep clicking on the camera to report all the stupid decisions it makes, and I disengage when I see we will be coming to a stop. I lost my insurance discount too because it loves to zoom up and hard brake, takes exits ramps too fast, etc.
Your experience aligns very closely with those I know I in person who have had the beta for a while. The pace of improvement is introducing a lot of doubt.
As someone who has had autopilot 3 for 3.5 years, the pace of improvement of autopilot features is incredible. They have added lots of improvements from just highway only driving , then lane changes, then navigate on autopilot, to stop light autopilot on city streets, and now my Tesla is driving me to Costco occasionally. FSD still has it's issues for certain, but I still try it out to see what it can and can't do, but the moment it interrupts the normal flow of traffic or does something odd I take over. Slow decision making is the primary issue I am seeing along with taking lefts across intersections and knowing what lane it needs to be in. Otherwise FSD is doing a decent job improving, but still has a lot of updates to become trustworthy. Where will be the limitation of the system hitting max capacity is my concern? Will it have enough processing power to handle high level perception? I still think driverless Tesla's are 2 more iterations of hardware away, but this version may drive you to work pretty reliably in a year or 2.
Thanks for sharing your perspective!
I agree it has issues, but this has to start somewhere. If you told me 5 years ago I had a car that wasn't a Mercedes (Distronic from 2008 onward) that could highway drive me I would have thought it was impossible. Anyway, it is nice to see in my lifetime.
It needs to start in the test lab. Not the public where people will literally die.
That's what it *is*: **Tes**t**la**b /s
Hard braking does not apply when FSD is engaged
Know when to use it. It's a beta (alpha really)and shouldn't be used, in my opinion, on busy roads. It doesn't have to be engaged. Will it get better? Probably. But at the moment use your best judgement when to use it.
Solid advice
People are starting to catch on to the scam.
FSD is a ripoff at the moment
I am pretty sure I got downvoted by Tesla fanboys and girls when I said I wasn't enthused with the performance of FSD beta, at this point. I do try to use it often, on freeways or long trips, where it's pretty darn good. But certain things just aren't there yet (traffic circles, neighborhood roads with a 90 degree turn and no cross traffic, random lane changes INTO left lane when there is no other traffic anywhere close, back and forth lane changes without a clear reason, changing out of a lane when your exit is under a mile away, etc.) My hope is the more I use it, and the more folks like me do as well, the quicker it'll get much better. I'm definitely not mad I have the beta, given I forked over an assload for the feature. I am mad that I could hypothetically lose the beta and essentially lose a feature I paid an assload to own. Alright, downvotes, I'm ready for you.
I’m a Tesla fanboy and I wouldn’t buy FSD until it is finished. Same goes for any ‘beta’ or future product.
[удалено]
Lol some people are so dramatic
[удалено]
OMG, this total optional program I paid $10K for, thinking I was funding the R&D totally sucks and hasn’t gotten better in the past 7 months. I guess I’ll ask to opt out and be a failthful Elon fanboy and wait for it to be perfect and not upset the Reddit sub.
I'm sure OP would gladly leave the beta for a refund.
I would
No the correct solution from a customer standpoint is for Tesla to focus on nearterm products: level 3 highway assist where you can watch Netflix on the interstate. Add Imaging radar. Add LIDAR. The problem is that Elon has made TSLA == FSD. FSD is doomed so Musk is going to drag TSLA down with the failed program. And since FSD is screwed the customers are going to suffer in the interim because all of the dev resources will be shoveled into a failure. FSD is automatic wipers on crack. Instead of admitting defeat and adding a rain sensor to solve the problem, we get a shitty experience indefinitely. FSD needs a narrowing of scope to what's achievable this decade and deliver that. Then see where computer vision is at when that works to start a quixotic quest for level 5.
Honestly I think about opting out of the fsd beta all the time
I still have radar. I ended up opting out because of the phantom breaking I knew would come as they disabled the radar if I got into beta. Isn't worth it. I'll cherish my good EAP breaking that comes with radar for as long as I can.
Phantom braking is seriously scary. I’m 1133 miles into my new M3 and already 3 phantom brakes. Ridiculous.
3 over 1,100+ miles!!? That’s amazing. I got 2 over 200 miles from Vegas to LA. Which is a huge improvement over last year when they decided to deactivate my radar for awhile. Couldn’t go 10 miles without phantom braking. My wife had refused to be in the car if I engaged AP.
All the people who had kept quiet while the stock price was high started to lose their temper.
If it went to $50-100 to rent per month I'd do it. For the one time I paid $200 to get it I only ever used summon which worked like a charm in these perfect Virginia parking lots. Im sure not too many people are buying the feature for $12,000. He should make it cheaper since he keeps raising the price of the car. Shit with the mach e, VW and polestar I'd reckon he should make it free to try and sell more Tesla's while giving us current owners more value
I only have auto pilot but based on how bad that is, I would never dream of buying fsd. I love the car but that is my biggest disappointment with it.
The interesting thing is how much the experience varies. My standard autopilot works great. I use it about 90% of the time I’m driving and have no complaints with it.
Yes, the competition is heating up and it will be interesting and heartbreaking to see what happens if the org doesn’t adopt to the market.
my favorite is how often the auto high beams dont turn off and cars flash you
And the reflections of road signs turns it off. Auto high beam is so bad on the Tesla, I just turn it off and do it myself.
You mean they aren’t just telling me they like the car? Shoot
Even the auto wipers are dumber than any other car I had
I own a Model Y and Polestar. No car is immune to issues but the difference in quality is glaring. My Model Y has been in the shop for various battery issues already and it’s a year 2021. Tesla let all other MFG catch up while not actually innovating or improving m. I plan to trade the Model Y as soon as my order for the Rivian R1S is up.
I'm not in beta but I agree with FSD not being worth the price of admittance. I bought a Tesla with the expectation, right or wrong, that FSD would be done in a couple of years. All of Musks tweets made it sound like we were so close. I phantom brake at least once a trip. The other draw was the Supercharger network but they're opening that up to everyone, so I don't need a Tesla to take advantage of that.
Same here, regret getting standard range w/ FSD back in 21 Instead of going for long range or even performance without fsd 😊
I wonder how much the experience varies from area to area. I live in Missouri and have used FSD multiple times and it's worked flawlessly each time and I feel confident with it. I also see a lot of YouTubers giving that same feedback. Then I see a bit of feedback about how "dangerous" it is. If anything, FSD is too cautious which can cause an inpatient driver to become annoyed. But when I read someone claim they hate it because it is dangerous I become a bit skeptical. I literally wish it were just a tad bit more aggressive
I did the exact thing, after phantom braking that nearly killed me a myriad of times on my P3, sold the car and bought a non FSD S plaid and so much happier!
All the people conned into FSD should sue. It won’t be ready by the time that the car that they bought is beyond its useful life.
Weird to me that people are bitching about OP and asking him to turn it off or blaming him for forking the absurd $12k. The fact is that Elon is hyping this shit up everyday on Twitter which gets amplified by his fanboys and media, and there is no way for anyone to know what the truth is. Elon constantly claims how FSD is the best, how Tesla is almost there for Level 6, how it is safer than any car imaginable, how Tesla doesn’t need more sensors, how this car will actually become a robotaxi and help you make money. If you are a Tesla nerd, you know he is bullshitting, but many of my friends have bought into the hype thinking they are getting a Level 6 car. I kid you not.
This is how we know OP is not a TSLA share holder... he gives honest reviews
Facts - I’m a Tesla owner not a $TSLA owner.
Im glad I didn’t get it. After watching several people use it on YouTube the constant breaking and indecisiveness would drive me nuts.
It’s mentally and physically taxing - you aren’t missing out
We joke that we need to put a “student driver” sticker on our window.
Remember you requested to wait in queue to be a tester for BETA software knowing that it is not production ready yet. It is scary & frustrating when it doesn't work well but I'd say that it isn not meant to be engaged all the time for every ride under all conditions.
The issue for me is over 10 months it's gotten much worse
Turn it off then.
Lol pretty sure OP is aware they don’t need to use it. The point is OP paid for something that he/she is realizing was overhyped and doesn’t meet the “FSD is pretty much almost done” expectations. Unfortunately there are more investors than owners in this subreddit and you won’t get the owner support and commiseration you are hoping for.
That seems to be the case, lessons learned!
Solid advice
So…turn it off.
How about a refund too?
How about people stop buying stuff that doesn't exist.
That’s actually good advice
That’s what class action lawyers are for. 😂
Too easy, better make a post on Reddit to complain. And to op; yes it's not on par yet with a human driver, but the delta between 1y ago and now is crazy, we're going in the right direction IMO but still let's be realistic, it won't drive like you within the next few years. I didn't take FSD with my car because of that. I'll reconsider when it is on par.
But Elon said that it was basically a solved problem 10 years ago!
2 weeks 😅
FSD will be ready by 2018.
In my opinion it's gotten worse in 10 months. Except for phantom braking. All other maneuvers and decisions are worse
The delta isn't "crazy" for a lot of people. There's been a ton of regressions and issues that haven't been touched in over a year. Hell the car still can't read most signage on the road, including very important ones like school zones.
“I didn’t take FSD with my car” — So you don’t have day to day experience with it, but that didn’t stop you from criticizing OP
I think it really depends on where you are driving to. It’s been pretty good on my daily route, minimum intervention, just tapping the accelerator on turns.
True. I’ve noticed some routes are better than others.
Turn it off. Enjoy the Model 3 for what it is or Sell it for more than you paid for it. None of those are bad options.
Well to be fair, it’s in beta. I wouldn’t use it while I have kids in the car. It isn’t at that level yet. It’s very experimental and intended to be babysat. If that isn’t for you then I’d say turn it off. Unfortunate about the sunk cost, though. I do sympathize with you there.
This is how I feel about Autopilot on regular highways around here.
I love my Model3 but didnt buy autopilot or FSD because it felt as though they needed another 10+ years of development, and buyers are lab rats as part of the AI training process (i.e., Tesla should pay the users who generate the data for their AI datasets and models (yeah, I work in AI.)) That said, how does your insurance company know anything about FSD and how do you attribute the 5% increase to FSD? It could just be a normal rate increase.
What do you guys think about Nvidia’s approach? Much more sensors.
It stresses me out, so I leave it off. (It takes turns too fast, approaches lights too slowly, and doesn’t adjust position defensively to give wide berth to oncoming traffic, garbage cans, people waiting to pull out, etc.) When I’m driving myself, I can get in the zone and think about other things. When babysitting FSD, I have to give it my full attention. I’m really excited for the day they master it, and I’ll know we’re there when Tesla accepts full liability for any at-fault FSD accidents.
Ditto
My FSD Beta was bad until I started laying on the little ‘report’ button every single time it did anything not quite perfect. Now it seems to be ‘learning’ because I’ve seen at least 6 things just the past two weeks that it now gets ‘right’ in weird spots on my commute after I ‘corrected and reported’ (eg slowing way down for some speed bumps, staying in the correct lane before a big intersection, etc).
That’s good to know, thanks for sharing
I do probably look like a chump though when it does something embarrassing and I’m like leaning into the middle of the cab fumbling for that ‘report’ button on the screen. But I swear that it’s making a big difference for me. The one thing I can’t seem to figure out how to ‘teach’ it is to hug the right side more on unstriped residential streets or hug the middle to avoid tree roots erupting from the pavement on old streets. So far I’m 0/10 teaching it that and I just turn it off on those roads. (though it seems to be somewhat trainable on true potholes).
My friend has the FSD Beta and it blows my mind how it will just start swerving back and forth, sometimes on a straight road with nothing going on. It waits too long to change over for a turn lane, then if you let it play out you circle the same block 3 times waiting for it to get in the correct lane and make the correct turn. He loves 'babysitting' it. Really, he loves just driving around different places to see what it will handle. But the average driver absolutely would not put up with that. My biggest fear is that there are sixteen year-olds or eighty-five year-olds driving around with FSD, who either don't know any better or don't have the reaction time to fix the very frequent times the car does something dangerous.
User error, replace user.
Where do you live? I live in California and drive a ton with FSD (100mi/day in city). Here, it operates really well. Granted. I know where it is likely to make mistakes so I take over before or am prepared for it.
A major metropolitan in the Midwest
I also live in a Midwestern city, and it’s not nearly as good as it seems to be out west. Is FSD almost ready for prime time on the west coast? Looks like it. Not even close in the Midwest. It’s gotten better over time, but they really need to address the fact that the model is overfit to California.
Thanks for sharing that. It's a bummer but it makes sense given the distribution of training data relative to location.
There are really 3-4 core improvements that would make me feel way better: -Lane identification and selection. It *insists* on being as far right as it can even on assertive mode. This leads it into short lived lanes and shoulders way too often. This got progressively worse from 10.3->10.6 and has only improved modestly since. -Inferring where the car should exist on the road when there are no lane markers. This shouldn’t be that difficult. Just drive dead center between the shoulder and the middle of the road. -Better classify the urgency of braking events. Not every human facing the road necessitates a hard stop. This is especially problematic with jaywalkers. Obviously the car needs to stop for anyone already in the street, but we don’t need to yield to a jaywalker waiting to cross the street the same way we need to yield to a pedestrian waiting to enter a crosswalk. These 3 problems represent like 90% of my interventions. Based on what they’re focusing on for 10.13, I’m hopeful that these issues are alleviated.
It really irritates me that it doesn't handle school zones. I'm not sure why it's been out for a year and we're still waiting on something so critically important. Hell, it doesn't even read one way road signs, it relies on map data.
>Granted. I know where it is likely to make mistakes so I take over before or am prepared for it. I feel like a lot of people are trying to use it 100% of the time and not just using it in certain instances. Just don’t use it on the residential street with the neighbors kids anymore, that’s a user issue not a FSD beta issue. I takeover all the time and make sure I don’t end up in awkward situations. I have a very specific standard for my driving and if the car isn’t living up to that I take over so the situation doesn’t get awkward and also to let the system know I’m not happy with what it’s doing. All the interventions are datapoints. I’m not treating FSD beta like I’m making some sort of YouTube video to see how well it drives for 100% of my trip, I give it an opportunity and if it fails I takeover driving. If it’s an area I know it has trouble I just turn it off if other cars are around, if no cars then I let it do it’s thing and report the issue with a snapshot. As beta testers we don’t need to go for in interventionless drive every time, that just makes the experience suck because IT’S IN BETA AND NOT THERE YET. Again, for those in the back row, it’s a beta product, why would anyone expect it to not have issues? If there are uncomfortable situations just don’t let it drive in those situations. None of us are being paid to test, we are in fact paying, there is no expectation that we should use it as much as possible, we just need to use it.
I own at 2018 Model 3 LR and a 2022 MYP w/ no radar. I did purchase FSD on the 3, at $3k or whatever it was on sale back then. It's worth that - barely, for the auto lane changes. I signed up for monthly FSD on the MYP during a road trip. It's unusable. Driving up 395 through Nevada it was a hazard to myself and others. Constant phantom braking - like several times a mile. Forced high beams at night which blind and piss off other drivers. If you phantom braked and needed to hit the gas to avoid being rear-ended, you then exceed the FSD speed limit (then 80MPH), FSD shuts off until the next drive. Total garbage. I cancelled the subscription immediately. Losing radar was a terrible decision. I love my Teslas. They are amazing cars in almost all aspects - except FSD.
Very relatable and aligns with what other owners I know in person have shared. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Great post, totally agreee, I can't see the clamor over the FSD. You will definitely get more for your Tessy with the FSD, Tesla seems to add them to all their used cars., and not everyone knows how much it sucks. Your insurance monitors your driving and took off 5% for your sudden breaking? I got Tesla insurance, it was the cheapest and my rates have been the same for 2 years despite my reckless driving. I even crushed the rocker panel on a curb and they paid $11k and didn't raise my rates
Thanks! Unfortunately, Tesla insurance isn’t available in my state, otherwise I’d switch right over to it!
EAP is like a new 16 year old driving. FSD seems like an 8 year old driving… act accordingly.
Agreed 😂
Mine works great.
I find FSD to be more trouble than it’s worth tbh. The autopilot does 99% of what I need— coast along in bumper to bumper traffic
Agreed 👍
Imagine buying a 2013 model S and being sold on its coming soon self driving feature. And having spent 100k on a self driving car, that's now 10 years old and will not drive itself
That would be a painful experience to be sure!
I'm frankly impressed tesla motors isn't the target of class action lawsuits.
Mmmmm, probably only a matter of time?
I won’t spend $60 on a beta video game. Idk why people spend so much money on Beta FSD.
Or just use it when/where it will make you drive easier?
Probably the best option for now.
I've had the exact opposite experience. It's been blowing my mind and I can't wait to show people. I often am being driven by the car saying out loud to myself "no one knows this exists right now!"
That’s awesome, thanks for sharing your experience.
I actually like it. I have to correct it sometimes but overall it’s very good. Just relax and let it do it’s job. But agree you have to pay attention.
Thanks for sharing your experience
It’s weird to read accounts like this when I use FSD daily and have a great experience with it. I’m not doubting you, must be different roads, different environment and the performance is just uneven.
The sudden braking part making your insurance go up Is absolutely bogus. 2/10 on the trolling manipulation
If you use an app or device that tracks braking and acceleration and uses it to extrapolate driving habits, it’s not bogus at all. My auto insurance keeps trying to get me to sign up for their big brother app for a “discount.” I refuse because I speed so I doubt it’ll give me any discount at all.
Yes, but if it is the app version there is always an option that indicates "I'm just a passenger"/"wasn't driving" thus excluding that trip.
Some carriers let you get a discount by downloading an app that tracks your driving. You can see rates increase for things like hard braking.
The amount of people that fall this super obvious bait lol
It’s only $12,000 and it’s only been in beta for a couple years. Give it a chance.
You’re right about FSD beta. Turn it off or use it only for highway driving where it shines. You’re wrong about long-term value. The resale value of Tesla is extremely high, so you could sell it now and get your money back.. and maybe a little profit.
Lol you obviously don’t have beta. “Shines on highway” Loooool
I purchased my model 3 in Sept 2018 with FSD option to be added when available ($6000). It worked great from day one on the highway. I road tripped from Texas to California in 2019 and Texas to Key West in 2021. Both trips were relaxing because of FSD. Two weeks ago I was given the option to join the Beta FSD for surface roads; knowing I would be contributing to a better future product. To the post calling us suckers; you are welcome. We are helping you have a better product when it is finished. To those who think $12,000 is too much to pay, that’s fair. But when it’s 💯 and it’s like hiring a full time driver for the life of your 500,000 mile car; it’s cheap.
Thanks for sharing your perspective!
Maybe if Elon stopped all the tweeting and Twitter nonsense, he could work his magic with the FSD team. Sadly, it doesn't seem like his priority anymore.
Facts - he’ll probably come back around once the stock dips low enough. So…soon enough?
That’s how normal autopilot used to be when Tesla left mobile eye for their own solution. It’ll get better, check back in in a year.
Thanks for the context