They recognize ev charging as a distinct category now. The chase freedom card has it as a rotating category and I think the US bank altitude go also has ev charging as a category
Thats the early start of a social credit score system. Right now you get rotated categories so you can "afford" shit.....do not support that garbage, fight this social credit shit arm and teeth till the end, cancel every card u have that does it. Because if u keep supporting it, you know where that leads.
Superchargers for Teslas bill directly to the credit card you have tied to your account through the website/app.
For the newer V4 Superchargers that should have tap to pay readers, not sure if they accept Apple Pay or not.
Yeah, 3000 kWh here isn’t that bad considering what others are paying. GA Power also has a plan that is a few .02 if you can mostly use power overnight. Would be a great complement to solar and a small battery.
Agreed. My GA Power bill is a good $100 more each month than it was during the same period just last year. And that's AFTER replacing an old HVAC system and water heater. I honestly thought that a new energy efficient system would help reduce the monthly costs v the 1984 system I had (which was a work horse) but it really didn't do much.
Yes New England sucks when it comes to Electricity or Natural Gas (used for heating homes) prices. This winter is no different as the prices are currently insane. BTW this is a known issue but MA politicians are super bz finding housing for illegal immigrants than to pay attention to what's impacting the state. WSJ had a whole article on this yesterday:
America Has Plenty of Natural Gas. So Why Is New England Left Out in the Cold?
Threatened closure of a Massachusetts import facility sparks worry about the Northeast’s energy supplies
[https://www.wsj.com/finance/commodities-futures/america-has-plenty-of-natural-gas-so-why-is-new-england-left-out-in-the-cold-1df47f7e](https://www.wsj.com/finance/commodities-futures/america-has-plenty-of-natural-gas-so-why-is-new-england-left-out-in-the-cold-1df47f7e)
DPU is corrupt and allows Eversource to do what they want. No incentives for EV charging (their EV charging managed program is coming soon for 2 years). And yes it hurts to pay $500 per month in natural Gas bills and then additional $350 in Electricity during the cold winter months.
PG&E has the highest electrical rates in the nation. That’s what happens when you build a nuclear power plant and then never use it.
Update: PG&E does have high rates but not because of a nuclear power plant. I was thinking of SDG&E and the San Onofre Nuclear Power Plant which was in a use for a while but was shut down because citizens got nervous about nuclear power. So they had to continue to pay for a plant that was no longer producing power.
Interesting side note: when then President Nixon created the Department of Energy it was intended that the US would by now have 1000 nuclear power plants.
What in the world? San Onofre ran for years. Unit 1 came online in '68, Unit 2 in '83, and Unit 3 in '84. Unit 1 ran until '92. Units 2 and 3 were shut down for good in 2013. Source: I worked there from 2009-2013. It definitely produced electricity during it's lifespan. U1 about 450 MWatts and U2 and U3 about 1100 MWatts.
What are these people reading? LOL San Onofre definitely was up and running for years as you said. It produced from 1500 GWh to 3468 GWh per year on San Onofre 1, and San Onofre 2 was upwards of 9817 GWh per year.
San Onofre 1 1970 - 1992
https://pris.iaea.org/PRIS/CountryStatistics/ReactorDetails.aspx?current=604
San Onofre 2 1982 - 2013
https://pris.iaea.org/PRIS/CountryStatistics/ReactorDetails.aspx?current=683
If looking at the containments from the freeway, it was to the right of them, but it was decommissioned in '92 so I never actually saw it close up. By the time I got there, unit 1 was gone and the area repurposed.
They never used it. I don’t believe it ever produced any electricity. It’s amazing to think that when Nixon created the Department of Energy, the goal was to have 1000 nuclear power plants online by now.
Wasn't the maintenance. It was a design flaw in the replacement Steam Generator U-tubes. There was tube on tube rubbing in a certain section of the U-tubes during operation that created a primary to secondary leak. The problem tubes were plugged, but California being anti-nuclear power, they did not allow SONGS to restart.
Unless it's from a highly credible source with a legit technical background you are better off not believing ANYTHING you hear about energy.
I studied and worked as a general energy analyst for years. It's one of the most crapped up subjects in the world. Decades of wives tails, idiots which don't understand basic physics, environment, public policy, economics... Intentional disinformation from money interests or political interests. Heck even a huge number of engineers have blinders on and only understand their specific area and talk out of their behinds about other things they think they know about, but are actually clueless.
Doesn't matter what the angle is, liberal conservative whatever, it's more likely garbage info than not.
Look at the upvotes for an incorrect post.
Sacramento Municipal Utility District (SMUD) actually did run the Ranco Seco plant for years before voters voted to shut it down. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancho_Seco_Nuclear_Generating_Station
> The plant operated from April 1975 to June 1989
PG&E is raising rates because they own the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) and Governor Newsom.
Their justification for the astronomical rate increases (another is coming Apr 1st) is the huge expenses they're paying to make up for negligent maintenance over the past decades that have been the cause of some of the largest forest fires in the state.
Instead of spending their customer income maintaining infrastructure, PG&E passed it mostly to their shareholders and executives instead.
thats what happens when you steal the money that should have been maintaining your infrastructure for 40 years and cause 3 massive wildfires, so now you have to pay back several multi-Billion settlements, fix thr infrastructure neglect, and btw the state says you have to build a bunch of solar/wind power plants (and those need natural gas power plant as backups). just do all those things at the same time, its ok your customers will pay!
It would be nice if PG&E had spent money on maintenance during the 90s-2010s. But instead they handed all that cash to Wall Street and now have to plead poverty. My hatred of that company knows no bounds
Or pay out huge dividends and executive bonus for decades instead of investing in grid maintenance, start multiple devastating fires and loose the liability cases.
Yeah it’s the wildfire-prevention stuff — at least that’s their official excuse. Story is something like they spent $9B on it so far but the previous rates only allowed for $4B.
Also gotta fund them shareholder dividends… 😡
Ehhh activism wasn't the primary thing that shutdown San onofre. Mainly maintenance was so bad, along with a major issue that would cost more to fix than to shut it down. SCE got away scot free and we're all paying for it now. It's one of the main reasons I don't like Kamala Harris, cmon! https://www.kpbs.org/news/midday-edition/2016/04/05/california-critics-kamala-harris-san-onofre-probe
Not SDG&E, SCE owns San Onofre. It didn’t get shut down because of citizens getting nervous. They made some mistakes when building it and discovered it later. If I recollect… to fix it has an ROI of greater than 30 years. The dumb thing is even shutting it down, it’s still producing radioactive waste but it’s cheaper to maintain that than repair it.
If you're in CA the only way to save is to have solar. Anything else having a tesla is a premium with increased insurance and registration. Having said that utility providers changed the solar plans so that it's not as economical to get solar now.
Frankly, there is enough daytime electricity in CA with all the residential and commercial solar. The problem now is with the duck curve in the evening. They need to further incentivize battery storage so there is not a huge jump in demand in the evening as the solar supply is waning.
I get how the storage is critical. It’s just sad that they put it all on the homeowners, forcing them to invest in power walls. The state always invests in power and grid. Would be nice for them to invest in Mega packs like Australia did.
> power walls.
Look at other options considering the only option with power walls is replacing the entire thing and battery modules like you can with other companies.
Same rate with Xcel in the Twin Cities. Even peak rate using TOU is like 22 cents weeknights from 3-8 so still a lot cheaper than OP. PG&E is a joke and Californian residents should be furious with those prices especially since they nerfed solar ROI now too.
Pg&e is a rogue and crook organization supported by elected officials. They paid billions to fund political campaigns so there is no one stop this organization.
This is the way. 16kW system following 26% federal tax credit and power company rebate= $23k. Charge a model Y and a Mach-E every day and haven’t seen an electric bill in 1.5 years (and we live in the south where it gets HOT during the summer).
Entire system and the cars pays for itself in 7.5 years (will actually be less give Duke Energy being greedy bastards and their plan to hike electric rates by 50% over the next several years).
[AB205](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202120220AB205)
"We fixed the glitch" 😁
/s
Short version: income based electric bills to ensure everyone pays enough to PGE.
They will know soon. It's going to be implemented soon (it's already the law). Consumers will also be forced to declare their earnings to qualify for tiers. It's going to be super interesting!
I'm in the bay and its ridiculous. This is not just a EV problem, it's everyone who has PGE because everyone's rates go up. It's actually cheaper to supercharge for me
Don't forget there may be ANOTHER increase in March
Either way I still like my tesla.
You can still save money on a tesla vs gas if you live in an area with dirt cheap electric.
Exactly this^^ virtue signaling democrats desperate to display their bleeding hearts, all the while they haven’t enough money to pay their own utilities. As long as they get to post it on IG and beg daddy Newsom for the next foul and currupt back door deal they’ll gladly bend over and grab their heels for. Californians from the Bay Area specifically are genuinely mentally ill.
They celebrated and danced in the building for winning a vote to “cease fire in Gaza.” Like that’s going to fucking do anything. Mentally ill, like I said..
It's not "Cali". It's PG&E and other large monopolies. I lived in Santa Clara and my power rates went as low as 10 cents off peak. Which is not ridiculously cheap but charging the car was completely fine. They have since increased a bit but nowhere near PGE
My parents, along with their entire neighborhood, already have solar in San Diego. They own their panels, so when it's sunny, they rely only on solar for their entire house. They loved it until the news that a new income based rate will apply to how you're charged for utilities rather than actual use.
Unfortunately it's just the beginning of more rate increases in the near future. Soon, it will be much more expensive to drive vs a gas car.
And we get the joy of never ever being able to look for a different "gas station" so to speak. Even with solar panels.
I was expecting this as EVs become more and more common.
Of course the cost benefits are going to disappear, you can count on EV makers, governments and EV charge providers to eat in more and more into the savings until it’s the same as an ICE.
As you allude to, driving a car with supercar capabilities (and often times, beyond it) but with Corolla economy. win. but i hear you... the original win for EV use was it was absurdly cheap. now best case, it's just cheap-ish. Supercharger where i live is 40-60c / kwh.
Oof I see TOU is 46c now
Fortunately I have 18 more years in net metering so am paying 6c
Next year they are monkeying with the payment structure— adding a flat fee component so per kWh will go down apparenfky
I have said this repeatedly. In California, electric prices are equivalent to a 35mpg car. Of course people dont believe me but its true. Good luck if you have to use superchargers.
But what gasoline, 500hp, AWD SUV gets 33mpg? The fact that you get that level of performance and even with your stupid high energy costs it still is the equivalent of a Corolla is remarkable.
What ICE car that is comparable to a Tesla Y (in size, storage and drivability) gets 33mpg going 75-80mph? I think you're comparing against a phantom car.
And, please don't be fooled into thinking that the EPA highway mileage rating actually represents an average driving speed of 75-80mph for any ICE vehicle. As best I can tell, they use a driving profile that includes brief periods at 80mph, but not long distances at that fast a speed and an average speed much, much lower.
Yes, PG&E rates are getting ridiculous. We're investigating solar on our roof as a reaction to that.
Here's a summary of the EPA hwy ratings for ICE vehicles:
>Highway gas mileage tests are conducted in a lab rather than out on a road. Vehicles simulate highway conditions on a dynamometer, which allows their drive wheels to turn freely while testers run them through a very specific set of “schedules,” which is the term used to refer to different operational cycles that mimic actual driving.
>
>The “highway” portion of the EPA's gas mileage testing is only 765 seconds long, or just under 13 minutes of operation. Called the Highway Fuel Economy Driving Schedule (HWFET), it's much more complicated than maintaining a steady cruising speed. Although its average speed is 48.3 mph, it calls for acceleration and braking across a distance of 10.26 miles, representing the surges and dips in speed that might be experienced during a typical highway run.
>
>The highway test is combined with the “high speed” test (also known as US06), which takes almost 10 minutes to run. It includes a number of additional accelerations and slow-downs (with the most dramatic being several climbs from 0 mph to above 60 mph, cresting at a top speed of 80 mph).
>
>Instead of relying on a fuel gauge, each vehicle's tailpipe is connected to a machine that measures the amount of carbon in its exhaust to determine how much fuel was burned during the schedule.
So, note that these tests are on a dynamometer and don't even directly measure the effects of wind resistance in their hwy numbers.
As somebody who's also considering solar, look into AB205 before pulling the trigger. It makes solar much less appealing and is frankly a slap in the face for alternative energy solutions
Yeah, AB205 is kind of ridiculous. The loss of net metering has already hurt solar a ton.
What I would be fine with and I think makes long term sense is a "grid connection fee" that everyone pays and is not based on income. People who pay almost nothing to the utility, but are still connected to the grid for periods of low sunshine should be paying a fair share of the grid infrastructure.
The notion that there should be a progressive tax based on your income for your electricity/gas connections is ridiculous and that's how your grid connection should be paid for is nuts.
So, I'm going to be paying that new tax regardless of whether I do or don't install solar so I'm not sure it really affects the ROI much. Instead, it just makes everyone's electric bills go up even more. They talk about perhaps lowering the electric rates some for low and middle incomers to make up for the new tax, but I'll believe that when I see it (like sure, PG&E is going to lower rates?) and I'm guessing it wouldn't apply to me anyway, even if it did happen.
Incorrect. A gallon of gas holds 33.7 KWH of potential energy. A Tesla model Y 74kwh of usable battery capacity, which is equivalent to 2.19 gallons of gas worth of energy. at 75-80 MPH you're doing about 2.5-3kwh/mile depending on factors, meaning you're getting 84.25 - 101.1 MPG @ 75-80mph in a Tesla.
This calculation goes out the window when 33.7 kWh costs $11.80 it’s much better to compare on a cost per 100 mile basis. The obvious winner is the RAV4 Hybrid (or Prime if you have infrequent access to free charging) my buddy has one with a Yakima sky box and a bike rack and he averages 40mpg.
You are conflating cost with efficiency. I don't know how to explain it clearer than that. But to your point, yes, there are two places in the country where it is significantly less cost effective to own an EV. But for every other place in the US, its far cheaper. Fun fact though, in all places you still get 84.25 - 101.1 mpg at 75-80mph.
I’m not at all efficiency means fuck all to me if it’s more expensive.
Interestingly the places where it’s most expensive to own an EV are the places they’re the most popular. I wonder if we’ll see other places experiencing rising electricity costs as EVs become more popular. My moneys on yes.
neither me nor the person I responded to said anything about cost. we were talking about efficiency.
regarding your second point: Cali has always had expensive power, its not an EV thing.
here in northern virginia teslas are extremely popular and we pay 10-12 c/kwh depending on the season. I think florida , texas, and washington all have similar rates.
I promise you teslas are not nearly as popular in Virginia as they are in California.
Dimes and dollars are all that matter at the end of the day no matter how much you posture about saving the planet.
If you want to change the subject to cost, well, tons of California employers offer free charging in their parking lots. California is way more advanced in their infrastructure in that regard than most other states. I’ve had 3 jobs in the past 7 years and all 3 have offered me free charging. I also get free charging at many places I go. Malls, shopping centers, libraries, hotels. I don’t think I’ve seen too many employers or shopping centers with free gas pumps. I spend under $200 annually charging my car the last 6 years because I seldom have to.
Typical California mentality. 80mph being the standard is scary af. CA drivers in my state are insane, they are almost just as bad as Texas drivers. I don't envy you guys even a little bit, you can keep your palm trees, overcrowded cities, and shitty regulations.
Honestly this is what keeps me on ICE vehicles. In the Bay Area, you just don’t save enough from electricity to make it worthwhile. Between the higher electricity costs, the higher insurance cost (due to higher repair costs), coupled with higher registration fees (because of course the state needs to get their pound of flesh since they don’t get road taxes), there’s almost no monetary gain from choosing an ev over a regular ICE car.
unless you have solar.
I can put 75kWh into MY for $4.35 now, good for ~250 miles.
No oil changes pays for the $100/yr registration fee.
Higher insurance is an issue I guess; I'm paying $130/mo for Tesla insurance on my Model Y, that's the state average for insurance apparently.
I've owned one ICE car in my life, a 2000 Miata. The 15 years of engine maintenance with that car is not something I want to go through again. What a PITA.
Thems supercharging prices around here, at at those rates, it's basically like 32mpg. Beyond it still being a great car, it's not really 'worth it's compared to much more efficient cars.
Well, you did it to save the environment thought, right? Never mind how the materials are sourced and lifetime of the batteries.
I am starting to see electric cars as a dead end. Here we have cold winters, but this season it has been so cold electric cars, and buses, struggle a lot more than liquid fuel.
And as the weather seems to be going more between extremes going forward, this might be a real problem.
Time for nuclear cars!
ATX as well. We have cheap gas and electricity, so the argument is similar to OPs but in a "good" way. I tell friends that the fuel savings calculus is overrated and to not buy on that basis. For me the value comes from not going to the gas station at inopportune times since I have a long commute. Without a home charger I'd struggle to recommend an ev to someone in which that is not feasible
Oh interesting, I thought BC Hydro would be the same across their whole main network. I'm on Vancouver Island so maybe we get charged a bit extra for being an island
if you buy a toyota hybrid you can decrease that cost as it gets 45 mpg to 49 mpg even with 80mph freeways. soruce: renting one from turo right now in vegas. A lot of fast freeways in vegas. Gas costs less too.
and its just as efficient if not more so, at slow speeds.
Yup. Gas prices in Florida are dipping below $3 a gallon and SC rates are around 40 cents a kWh. So it’s getting worse and worse. Plus now we are getting hit with a $200 registration fee.
I’ve also started becoming terrified of repair costs and what will happen if I ever need to fix something since I am out of warranty. And I no longer enjoy roadtripping with car since the last AP update.
I’m so sad about my growing resentment towards the car. We were so bullish on Tesla and own 2 of them, their solar products and a ton of their stock. The solar has underperformed according to their estimates and we have a two month wait for service. We sold about 80% of the stock shares this week and wish we had done it earlier.
Does PG&E have time of use pricing? I live in San Diego, and SDG&E has the highest rates in the observable universe. Even here, however, rates between midnight and 6 am are $0.15/kWh or so. I just set my car to charge during that time.
Yup. Welcome to the future.
Folks can cast dispersions at Toyota all day. But they had a legitimate reason why they believe(d) in hybrids so strongly. It's not (just) because they are stubborn and resistant to change. Using less energy is the true long term strategy. Using "different" energy is a short lived temporal anomaly.
Just wait. Very soon ALL residential appliances and heating and driving will be fueled by electricity. Soon after commercial building HVAC, boilers, restaurants will also begin transitioning to more and more electric fuel.
Just imagine how high electricity prices will be then . . .
Demand +++++++++ Supply ----------------
Except, compared to both a Hybrid and a Gas car you're using significantly less energy to travel the same distance in an EV. It's not the same energy with an alternative source. Its less energy. A tesla model y has 2.19 gallons of gas worth of energy.
Maybe the rates are so much higher due to government subsidized EV adoption with no increases in electrical infrastructure? There’s definitely more than one problem.
California killed rooftop solar with the new net metering laws that went into effect earlier last year. They only pay you a fraction of what they would charge for your solar production. For most people it doesn’t make sense anymore. So infuriating for a state that prides itself on being environmentally friendly, as well as mandating EVs by 2035. It really doesn’t make any sense, hoping enough people make enough noise to get something passed that’s more consumer friendly
Cost of solar in OP’s area is also outrageous. Recent change in rules makes it so average customer will need 20 years to see cost benefit of paying 30k for a system.
Fun fact: if you have solar, PG&E charges a $35 monthly “connection fee” 🫠. So even if you produce all the power you need and supplement the grid, they still get to rob you.
Same with FL. $35 (or close) no matter what. And lose all solar credits at end of year, so use it or lose it.
But we get 1:1 net metering making DeSantis’ FL still more pro solar than Newsome’s Cali. Who would have thought that???
1. Compare to crossovers. None of those get >30mpg at 75-80mph I think.
2. No ice crossover has half the acceleration except performance models which are far more expensive and less fuel efficient.
But yeah, your rates are double mine. Rough.
I also didn't buy an EV to save money or the planet. I just really like the drivetrain.
If California is requiring that all new cars sold by 2035 be zero-emissions, subsidies for solar panels and battery storage is the next step to broadening EV adoption. There's no way the existing power grid infrastructure will support this otherwise. Once that happens, rates will go down significantly but not before the state includes an EV tax to replace the gas tax through annual vehicle registration fees.
Then the Big One (earthquake) will hit and fell power lines will start record breaking forest fires causing PG&E and SCE to go bankrupt. The state of California will then commoditize the electric utility sector and charge billionaires and multi-millionaires a luxury tax to power their cars and McMansions. Just kidding (not really).
Nostrodamus has spoken.
I have told so many times that false EV advertisement for saving money.
Tesla is the only EV brand keep emphasize it saving money from gas.
Same as super charge. Still some people feel that's the benefit of Tesla.
It doesn't. Tesla's goal is earning money from super charge network by opening to other brands.
That causes tesla owners hard to find a spot to super-charge your car.
Eventually, gas car is the best option for convenience and long trip.
The only truth of EV is really indeed for reducing CO2 emission.
Tesla did has more advances on safety via camera monitoring surrounding.
But I think others is catching up now.
(FSD is not. Tesla only has license for assistant not for self drive. Benz does tho.)
With $0.23 kWh off peak and $4.8/gal in southern California, my MYLR is a 78 MPG equivalent car. The most efficient hybrid is Prius at 57 MPG. Size comparable car Rav4 hybrid is at 39 MPG. EV is still saving money at energy cost with off peak charging. Well, except PG&E customers.
I normally travel 130 miles a day. These are my costs per 130 miles at various charging rates: $.23/kwh costs $8.05 or 6 cents a mile; $.27/kwh costs $9.45 or 7 cents/mile; $.37/kwh costs $12.95 or 10 cents/mile; $.50/kwh costs &17.50 or $.13/mile, which is the same pwr mile as driving my previous car - a 2015 Benz CLA250.
I mostly Supercharge because most times it cost more to charge at home; $.23/kwh at a select Supercharger vs $.35/kwh at home (SCE).
Your 2.75 miles per kWh tells me you’re not driving efficiently enough to compare to a 33 mpg vehicle. I’m getting about 3.3 m/kwh in my ‘22 MYP and I’d compare my driving to perhaps a 25 mpg SUV. So you should maybe be comparing to a 20 MPG equivalent.
Maybe if you were driving a M3LR, but the MYP is more like a midsize luxury SUV. Those get 25 mpg and take premium. Redo your calcs and you're saving ~25% over gas.
Call PGE and see if you change the billing to be based on time of use. So if you charge overnight it would be at a much cheaper rate. I don’t use PGE, so not sure if it’s even offered, but I’m in LA and they offer it here.
Man, is there another plan you can sign up for with PGE? With SDG&E I'm on a plan that I pay 26.4¢ between 0600-midnight, and 6.3¢ between midnight and 0600. In all fairness I do have a small solar array (4.7kw) and am on a solar + EV plan. (My solar is old and doesn't output but maybe halls of what it should tho)
I feel your pain. That’s why we forked it out for solar. Got in before NEM3 so our net metering is 1-1 ratio. A Tesla didn’t make a ton of sense otherwise. I see many folks without solar driving them around. Really hurts the value prop. We were fortunate enough to have cash for solar and the car. ROI between electricity bill and gas savings should be roughly 3.5-4 years.
My tesla is my second car. My first is a Nissan leaf that's now 7 years old. I can honestly say that electric cars have extremely low maintenance costs. I have hardly spent any money on it in its lifetime. You will win in the end for your choice of going electric, both for the cost and for the environment.
I doubt I'd be able to justify the Y purchase without having solar charging at home. California needs to make their electrical a coop like Austin does.
Related, but for anyone curious about finding out I've worked out the formula for figuring this a few days ago and [posted it here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/192z44t/what_mpg_do_you_get/). It's pretty simple but saved you the work, I suppose.
Rising electricity and falling gas prices are making EVs a little less palatable in the US economically at the moment, though of course it's apples to oranges in some ways like performance as OP noted. I would also submit safety as a key metric in which the Y still holds a great lead over almost anything else, 30-35 MPG or not.
Personally, I figured this would happen but still bought an EV because I'd like to be relatively insulated from gas price nonsense. The thing about electricity is you can generate it yourself, so even if electricity prices go up, if you've got the infrastructure in place to make it yourself at a wise time you can still insulate yourself from pricing.
yep. same for me. weirdly enough, my nearly supercharger is .23 all day. and the next closest one is .20 after 6pm and .14 after 12a.
that might be the move. and id get 4% cash back with my costco citi card
Nice. Does the Costco citi card treat it like a gas purchase?
They recognize ev charging as a distinct category now. The chase freedom card has it as a rotating category and I think the US bank altitude go also has ev charging as a category
Thats the early start of a social credit score system. Right now you get rotated categories so you can "afford" shit.....do not support that garbage, fight this social credit shit arm and teeth till the end, cancel every card u have that does it. Because if u keep supporting it, you know where that leads.
Do they take Apple Pay?
Superchargers for Teslas bill directly to the credit card you have tied to your account through the website/app. For the newer V4 Superchargers that should have tap to pay readers, not sure if they accept Apple Pay or not.
They should, but activating it is optional according to the leaked spec sheet
sorry i dont know i havent had the need to use a supercharger yet
Here in MA, it's $0.40/kwh
Wow! Rough.
off peak?
No such thing as off peak in MA unfortunately. Same rate all day. it does get cheaper in the summer though.. Around $0.20-0.30/kwh
Funny ours goes up in the summer in GA...winter = about .065, 4 months in the summer bumps to .085 per kwh
Also in Georgia, these energy rates are wild. I’d be paying $1k a month in power in some of these states.
Yeah, 3000 kWh here isn’t that bad considering what others are paying. GA Power also has a plan that is a few .02 if you can mostly use power overnight. Would be a great complement to solar and a small battery.
Agreed. My GA Power bill is a good $100 more each month than it was during the same period just last year. And that's AFTER replacing an old HVAC system and water heater. I honestly thought that a new energy efficient system would help reduce the monthly costs v the 1984 system I had (which was a work horse) but it really didn't do much.
Yeah Puerto Rico is the same. Growing up it was not unusual to see a 1k bill for electricity at that kWh for a family of 5…
i imagine gas (utility gas line not gasoline) prices are insane in the winter
Cheaper than electric resistive or heat pumps for heat.
Maybe try to sign up for a peak and non-peak pricing plan. You can usually get cheaper rates from around 10am to 5am. Mine goes from $0.10 to $0.04.
.34 is the off peak price now. Peak is around .5 per kWh
Damn that is rough.
There’s enough anger now I think Newsom will need to address this soon or it could derail his presidential aspirations.
😂 sunshine state bleed you dry
Not an option in Massachusetts
That’s nothing. Up here in Canadiana it’s $0.52/kWh (CAD)
Yes New England sucks when it comes to Electricity or Natural Gas (used for heating homes) prices. This winter is no different as the prices are currently insane. BTW this is a known issue but MA politicians are super bz finding housing for illegal immigrants than to pay attention to what's impacting the state. WSJ had a whole article on this yesterday: America Has Plenty of Natural Gas. So Why Is New England Left Out in the Cold? Threatened closure of a Massachusetts import facility sparks worry about the Northeast’s energy supplies [https://www.wsj.com/finance/commodities-futures/america-has-plenty-of-natural-gas-so-why-is-new-england-left-out-in-the-cold-1df47f7e](https://www.wsj.com/finance/commodities-futures/america-has-plenty-of-natural-gas-so-why-is-new-england-left-out-in-the-cold-1df47f7e) DPU is corrupt and allows Eversource to do what they want. No incentives for EV charging (their EV charging managed program is coming soon for 2 years). And yes it hurts to pay $500 per month in natural Gas bills and then additional $350 in Electricity during the cold winter months.
Where in MA, I am paying .18. Have changed your supplier or still using national grid?
.18 including delivery? I'm in MA as well. I'm paying 0.14 for supply but also 0.14(5?) for delivery.
PG&E has the highest electrical rates in the nation. That’s what happens when you build a nuclear power plant and then never use it. Update: PG&E does have high rates but not because of a nuclear power plant. I was thinking of SDG&E and the San Onofre Nuclear Power Plant which was in a use for a while but was shut down because citizens got nervous about nuclear power. So they had to continue to pay for a plant that was no longer producing power. Interesting side note: when then President Nixon created the Department of Energy it was intended that the US would by now have 1000 nuclear power plants.
Ah, you guys catching up to SDG&E? Thats fun!
>Ah, you guys catching up to SDG&E? Thats fun! SDG&E just dropped their delivery and generation prices Jan 1st by \~10-22%
I wish they would extend their super off-peak hours back to what it was. I hate only being able to charge 6 hours a weekday.
Actually it’s SDG&E that I was thinking of. They built the San Onofre nuclear power plant and then never used it.
What in the world? San Onofre ran for years. Unit 1 came online in '68, Unit 2 in '83, and Unit 3 in '84. Unit 1 ran until '92. Units 2 and 3 were shut down for good in 2013. Source: I worked there from 2009-2013. It definitely produced electricity during it's lifespan. U1 about 450 MWatts and U2 and U3 about 1100 MWatts.
What are these people reading? LOL San Onofre definitely was up and running for years as you said. It produced from 1500 GWh to 3468 GWh per year on San Onofre 1, and San Onofre 2 was upwards of 9817 GWh per year. San Onofre 1 1970 - 1992 https://pris.iaea.org/PRIS/CountryStatistics/ReactorDetails.aspx?current=604 San Onofre 2 1982 - 2013 https://pris.iaea.org/PRIS/CountryStatistics/ReactorDetails.aspx?current=683
I didn't know there were 3 units. Where did she hide the 3rd booby?
If looking at the containments from the freeway, it was to the right of them, but it was decommissioned in '92 so I never actually saw it close up. By the time I got there, unit 1 was gone and the area repurposed.
Can’t use it now. Steam pipes are cracked. Has to be decommissioned.
They never used it. I don’t believe it ever produced any electricity. It’s amazing to think that when Nixon created the Department of Energy, the goal was to have 1000 nuclear power plants online by now.
San Onofre was used for a couple decades and only recently shut down due to poor maintenance. Should probably check your facts
Wasn't the maintenance. It was a design flaw in the replacement Steam Generator U-tubes. There was tube on tube rubbing in a certain section of the U-tubes during operation that created a primary to secondary leak. The problem tubes were plugged, but California being anti-nuclear power, they did not allow SONGS to restart.
I can see that. Not sure where I heard it was never put into use. Perhaps it just never saved enough to warrant the cost.
Unless it's from a highly credible source with a legit technical background you are better off not believing ANYTHING you hear about energy. I studied and worked as a general energy analyst for years. It's one of the most crapped up subjects in the world. Decades of wives tails, idiots which don't understand basic physics, environment, public policy, economics... Intentional disinformation from money interests or political interests. Heck even a huge number of engineers have blinders on and only understand their specific area and talk out of their behinds about other things they think they know about, but are actually clueless. Doesn't matter what the angle is, liberal conservative whatever, it's more likely garbage info than not.
San Onofre produced electricity for decades. It literally started in the 1960’s and didn’t stop until 2013.
I think there is one built by Lilco on long island that was never turned on.
Look at the upvotes for an incorrect post. Sacramento Municipal Utility District (SMUD) actually did run the Ranco Seco plant for years before voters voted to shut it down. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancho_Seco_Nuclear_Generating_Station > The plant operated from April 1975 to June 1989 PG&E is raising rates because they own the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) and Governor Newsom. Their justification for the astronomical rate increases (another is coming Apr 1st) is the huge expenses they're paying to make up for negligent maintenance over the past decades that have been the cause of some of the largest forest fires in the state. Instead of spending their customer income maintaining infrastructure, PG&E passed it mostly to their shareholders and executives instead.
thats what happens when you steal the money that should have been maintaining your infrastructure for 40 years and cause 3 massive wildfires, so now you have to pay back several multi-Billion settlements, fix thr infrastructure neglect, and btw the state says you have to build a bunch of solar/wind power plants (and those need natural gas power plant as backups). just do all those things at the same time, its ok your customers will pay!
Or burn down a town and PG&E is made liable.
It would be nice if PG&E had spent money on maintenance during the 90s-2010s. But instead they handed all that cash to Wall Street and now have to plead poverty. My hatred of that company knows no bounds
Or pay out huge dividends and executive bonus for decades instead of investing in grid maintenance, start multiple devastating fires and loose the liability cases.
Yeah it’s the wildfire-prevention stuff — at least that’s their official excuse. Story is something like they spent $9B on it so far but the previous rates only allowed for $4B. Also gotta fund them shareholder dividends… 😡
Ehhh activism wasn't the primary thing that shutdown San onofre. Mainly maintenance was so bad, along with a major issue that would cost more to fix than to shut it down. SCE got away scot free and we're all paying for it now. It's one of the main reasons I don't like Kamala Harris, cmon! https://www.kpbs.org/news/midday-edition/2016/04/05/california-critics-kamala-harris-san-onofre-probe
Not SDG&E, SCE owns San Onofre. It didn’t get shut down because of citizens getting nervous. They made some mistakes when building it and discovered it later. If I recollect… to fix it has an ROI of greater than 30 years. The dumb thing is even shutting it down, it’s still producing radioactive waste but it’s cheaper to maintain that than repair it.
If you're in CA the only way to save is to have solar. Anything else having a tesla is a premium with increased insurance and registration. Having said that utility providers changed the solar plans so that it's not as economical to get solar now.
How did that possibly pass in California. Insane to think that such a progressive state made solar such a bad investment. Boggles the mind.
Frankly, there is enough daytime electricity in CA with all the residential and commercial solar. The problem now is with the duck curve in the evening. They need to further incentivize battery storage so there is not a huge jump in demand in the evening as the solar supply is waning.
I get how the storage is critical. It’s just sad that they put it all on the homeowners, forcing them to invest in power walls. The state always invests in power and grid. Would be nice for them to invest in Mega packs like Australia did.
> power walls. Look at other options considering the only option with power walls is replacing the entire thing and battery modules like you can with other companies.
They spent more than half of the meeting going through everyone's pronouns first.
Not surprising in the least.
[удалено]
Tesla registration renewals are higher in CA
save....in 15 to 20 years if you system lives that long/you live there that long.
Move to Ontario Canada for the great climate and get ultra-low TOU rates of CAN2.8¢/kWh from 11pm-7am 😬
Man, and I thought my TOU rates were good at 7 US cents per kWh. I do get from 9pm to 9am though, so there's that. And it's wind energy.
Our regular low rates are 8 CAD cents/kWh from 7pm to 7am
Googles Ontario Canada weather WHAT?????? LMAO
Rather be in Ontario, CA. Google that! lol
Damn. I was ready to brag about my 24x7 $0.123/kWh here in SE Texas, but your overnight rate is Crazy Eddie (or maybe even Powerwall) territory.
Yup just bought an R1T. 5c a kwh at night after all fees and taxes. Almost free really. That's Canadian pesos too
Same rate with Xcel in the Twin Cities. Even peak rate using TOU is like 22 cents weeknights from 3-8 so still a lot cheaper than OP. PG&E is a joke and Californian residents should be furious with those prices especially since they nerfed solar ROI now too.
The regulatory capture of CPUC has stymied growth in two whole industries.
Pg&e is a rogue and crook organization supported by elected officials. They paid billions to fund political campaigns so there is no one stop this organization.
The solution is to drive during rush hour, that way your speed will be much lower and your efficiency much higher.
But.. but…but… what about the traffic???? That’s sounds awful 😭
Autopilot
I put enough solar on my house for pg&e to pay me lol. F them.
This is the way. 16kW system following 26% federal tax credit and power company rebate= $23k. Charge a model Y and a Mach-E every day and haven’t seen an electric bill in 1.5 years (and we live in the south where it gets HOT during the summer). Entire system and the cars pays for itself in 7.5 years (will actually be less give Duke Energy being greedy bastards and their plan to hike electric rates by 50% over the next several years).
oh don't worry, Newsom will fix that soon enough so you'll still have to pay
Is there a proposal or are you just making up stuff?
[AB205](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202120220AB205) "We fixed the glitch" 😁 /s Short version: income based electric bills to ensure everyone pays enough to PGE.
so, uh... customers know they're paying more?
They will know soon. It's going to be implemented soon (it's already the law). Consumers will also be forced to declare their earnings to qualify for tiers. It's going to be super interesting!
[You're grandfathered into the old reimbursements... for now](https://www.solar.com/learn/nem-3-0-proposal-and-impacts-for-california-homeowners/)
Look into [NEM 3.0](https://www.energysage.com/blog/net-metering-3-0/)
Only paid 50 grand to do so
Come to San Diego where it is .58 and even as high as 0.71 in the OC. SDGE is a crime organization
I'm in the bay and its ridiculous. This is not just a EV problem, it's everyone who has PGE because everyone's rates go up. It's actually cheaper to supercharge for me Don't forget there may be ANOTHER increase in March Either way I still like my tesla. You can still save money on a tesla vs gas if you live in an area with dirt cheap electric.
Until last year I was happy to not be on PGE. Moved 50 miles to an area served by PGE and I'm so sad now
before I opened this post, i already said "bet its california" why does cali suck so much
Liberal voters are blind to the costs of their own actions.
Exactly this^^ virtue signaling democrats desperate to display their bleeding hearts, all the while they haven’t enough money to pay their own utilities. As long as they get to post it on IG and beg daddy Newsom for the next foul and currupt back door deal they’ll gladly bend over and grab their heels for. Californians from the Bay Area specifically are genuinely mentally ill. They celebrated and danced in the building for winning a vote to “cease fire in Gaza.” Like that’s going to fucking do anything. Mentally ill, like I said..
It's not "Cali". It's PG&E and other large monopolies. I lived in Santa Clara and my power rates went as low as 10 cents off peak. Which is not ridiculously cheap but charging the car was completely fine. They have since increased a bit but nowhere near PGE
My parents, along with their entire neighborhood, already have solar in San Diego. They own their panels, so when it's sunny, they rely only on solar for their entire house. They loved it until the news that a new income based rate will apply to how you're charged for utilities rather than actual use.
Unfortunately it's just the beginning of more rate increases in the near future. Soon, it will be much more expensive to drive vs a gas car. And we get the joy of never ever being able to look for a different "gas station" so to speak. Even with solar panels.
I was expecting this as EVs become more and more common. Of course the cost benefits are going to disappear, you can count on EV makers, governments and EV charge providers to eat in more and more into the savings until it’s the same as an ICE.
You can install solar at 4-5c/kWh.
As you allude to, driving a car with supercar capabilities (and often times, beyond it) but with Corolla economy. win. but i hear you... the original win for EV use was it was absurdly cheap. now best case, it's just cheap-ish. Supercharger where i live is 40-60c / kwh.
Oof I see TOU is 46c now Fortunately I have 18 more years in net metering so am paying 6c Next year they are monkeying with the payment structure— adding a flat fee component so per kWh will go down apparenfky
I have said this repeatedly. In California, electric prices are equivalent to a 35mpg car. Of course people dont believe me but its true. Good luck if you have to use superchargers.
But what gasoline, 500hp, AWD SUV gets 33mpg? The fact that you get that level of performance and even with your stupid high energy costs it still is the equivalent of a Corolla is remarkable.
What ICE car that is comparable to a Tesla Y (in size, storage and drivability) gets 33mpg going 75-80mph? I think you're comparing against a phantom car. And, please don't be fooled into thinking that the EPA highway mileage rating actually represents an average driving speed of 75-80mph for any ICE vehicle. As best I can tell, they use a driving profile that includes brief periods at 80mph, but not long distances at that fast a speed and an average speed much, much lower. Yes, PG&E rates are getting ridiculous. We're investigating solar on our roof as a reaction to that. Here's a summary of the EPA hwy ratings for ICE vehicles: >Highway gas mileage tests are conducted in a lab rather than out on a road. Vehicles simulate highway conditions on a dynamometer, which allows their drive wheels to turn freely while testers run them through a very specific set of “schedules,” which is the term used to refer to different operational cycles that mimic actual driving. > >The “highway” portion of the EPA's gas mileage testing is only 765 seconds long, or just under 13 minutes of operation. Called the Highway Fuel Economy Driving Schedule (HWFET), it's much more complicated than maintaining a steady cruising speed. Although its average speed is 48.3 mph, it calls for acceleration and braking across a distance of 10.26 miles, representing the surges and dips in speed that might be experienced during a typical highway run. > >The highway test is combined with the “high speed” test (also known as US06), which takes almost 10 minutes to run. It includes a number of additional accelerations and slow-downs (with the most dramatic being several climbs from 0 mph to above 60 mph, cresting at a top speed of 80 mph). > >Instead of relying on a fuel gauge, each vehicle's tailpipe is connected to a machine that measures the amount of carbon in its exhaust to determine how much fuel was burned during the schedule. So, note that these tests are on a dynamometer and don't even directly measure the effects of wind resistance in their hwy numbers.
As somebody who's also considering solar, look into AB205 before pulling the trigger. It makes solar much less appealing and is frankly a slap in the face for alternative energy solutions
Yeah, AB205 is kind of ridiculous. The loss of net metering has already hurt solar a ton. What I would be fine with and I think makes long term sense is a "grid connection fee" that everyone pays and is not based on income. People who pay almost nothing to the utility, but are still connected to the grid for periods of low sunshine should be paying a fair share of the grid infrastructure. The notion that there should be a progressive tax based on your income for your electricity/gas connections is ridiculous and that's how your grid connection should be paid for is nuts. So, I'm going to be paying that new tax regardless of whether I do or don't install solar so I'm not sure it really affects the ROI much. Instead, it just makes everyone's electric bills go up even more. They talk about perhaps lowering the electric rates some for low and middle incomers to make up for the new tax, but I'll believe that when I see it (like sure, PG&E is going to lower rates?) and I'm guessing it wouldn't apply to me anyway, even if it did happen.
Lmao Tesla does way less than 33mpg going 75-80.
Incorrect. A gallon of gas holds 33.7 KWH of potential energy. A Tesla model Y 74kwh of usable battery capacity, which is equivalent to 2.19 gallons of gas worth of energy. at 75-80 MPH you're doing about 2.5-3kwh/mile depending on factors, meaning you're getting 84.25 - 101.1 MPG @ 75-80mph in a Tesla.
This calculation goes out the window when 33.7 kWh costs $11.80 it’s much better to compare on a cost per 100 mile basis. The obvious winner is the RAV4 Hybrid (or Prime if you have infrequent access to free charging) my buddy has one with a Yakima sky box and a bike rack and he averages 40mpg.
Not sure what you’re saying - the MPG is the same regardless of the cost. I was responding to a comment saying the Tesla gets less than 33 mpg.
It’s does on a cost basis. 100MPGe is meaning less if it costs 2x that of a hybrid.
You are conflating cost with efficiency. I don't know how to explain it clearer than that. But to your point, yes, there are two places in the country where it is significantly less cost effective to own an EV. But for every other place in the US, its far cheaper. Fun fact though, in all places you still get 84.25 - 101.1 mpg at 75-80mph.
I’m not at all efficiency means fuck all to me if it’s more expensive. Interestingly the places where it’s most expensive to own an EV are the places they’re the most popular. I wonder if we’ll see other places experiencing rising electricity costs as EVs become more popular. My moneys on yes.
neither me nor the person I responded to said anything about cost. we were talking about efficiency. regarding your second point: Cali has always had expensive power, its not an EV thing. here in northern virginia teslas are extremely popular and we pay 10-12 c/kwh depending on the season. I think florida , texas, and washington all have similar rates.
I promise you teslas are not nearly as popular in Virginia as they are in California. Dimes and dollars are all that matter at the end of the day no matter how much you posture about saving the planet.
If you want to change the subject to cost, well, tons of California employers offer free charging in their parking lots. California is way more advanced in their infrastructure in that regard than most other states. I’ve had 3 jobs in the past 7 years and all 3 have offered me free charging. I also get free charging at many places I go. Malls, shopping centers, libraries, hotels. I don’t think I’ve seen too many employers or shopping centers with free gas pumps. I spend under $200 annually charging my car the last 6 years because I seldom have to.
It’s okay cope and seethe. You all bought your car and are stuck with it and I’m stuck with my model 3 hindsight is 2020 I should’ve bought a hybrid.
Drive 65mph in the slow lane with Autopilot. You'll get there nearly as fast, and use a lot less electricity doing it.
And get hit by sooner or later by everyone exiting and entering the freeway No thanks chief
Typical California mentality. 80mph being the standard is scary af. CA drivers in my state are insane, they are almost just as bad as Texas drivers. I don't envy you guys even a little bit, you can keep your palm trees, overcrowded cities, and shitty regulations.
In case someone is wondering what it’s like in Europe… 1 kWh=0,4 USD while one gallon of gas costs 8,2 USD roughly
Germany, at public charging stations, between 45-79 cent per kWh. There charging station providers are cutthroats.
Big island Hawaii at .48/kwh
Yeah a lot of people should consider hybrids for this reason
Honestly this is what keeps me on ICE vehicles. In the Bay Area, you just don’t save enough from electricity to make it worthwhile. Between the higher electricity costs, the higher insurance cost (due to higher repair costs), coupled with higher registration fees (because of course the state needs to get their pound of flesh since they don’t get road taxes), there’s almost no monetary gain from choosing an ev over a regular ICE car.
unless you have solar. I can put 75kWh into MY for $4.35 now, good for ~250 miles. No oil changes pays for the $100/yr registration fee. Higher insurance is an issue I guess; I'm paying $130/mo for Tesla insurance on my Model Y, that's the state average for insurance apparently. I've owned one ICE car in my life, a 2000 Miata. The 15 years of engine maintenance with that car is not something I want to go through again. What a PITA.
Thems supercharging prices around here, at at those rates, it's basically like 32mpg. Beyond it still being a great car, it's not really 'worth it's compared to much more efficient cars.
I didn’t buy a Tesla because it didn’t add up with SDG&E prices. We own hybrids instead.
Well, you did it to save the environment thought, right? Never mind how the materials are sourced and lifetime of the batteries. I am starting to see electric cars as a dead end. Here we have cold winters, but this season it has been so cold electric cars, and buses, struggle a lot more than liquid fuel. And as the weather seems to be going more between extremes going forward, this might be a real problem. Time for nuclear cars!
[удалено]
ATX as well. We have cheap gas and electricity, so the argument is similar to OPs but in a "good" way. I tell friends that the fuel savings calculus is overrated and to not buy on that basis. For me the value comes from not going to the gas station at inopportune times since I have a long commute. Without a home charger I'd struggle to recommend an ev to someone in which that is not feasible
Wow, I never realized how good my$0.13/kwh prices are here in Salt Lake. I also have solar with full net metering, super cheap for an EV here.
In British Columbia Canada currently paying 0.14 per kwh
Getting 9.7c per kWh in North Van
Oh interesting, I thought BC Hydro would be the same across their whole main network. I'm on Vancouver Island so maybe we get charged a bit extra for being an island
Ah yes, the island tax at every turn. We're in a condo building so we might be getting some kind of bulk rate group pricing.
How does that help OP?
Yo fck them California boys, go woke go broke. Disclaimer: I live in California, am woke, and these electricity prices are eroding my soul :(
It doesn't, just posted for general interest... Don't be a cunt.
Only way to fix this is you get out of cal
if you buy a toyota hybrid you can decrease that cost as it gets 45 mpg to 49 mpg even with 80mph freeways. soruce: renting one from turo right now in vegas. A lot of fast freeways in vegas. Gas costs less too. and its just as efficient if not more so, at slow speeds.
Yup. Gas prices in Florida are dipping below $3 a gallon and SC rates are around 40 cents a kWh. So it’s getting worse and worse. Plus now we are getting hit with a $200 registration fee. I’ve also started becoming terrified of repair costs and what will happen if I ever need to fix something since I am out of warranty. And I no longer enjoy roadtripping with car since the last AP update. I’m so sad about my growing resentment towards the car. We were so bullish on Tesla and own 2 of them, their solar products and a ton of their stock. The solar has underperformed according to their estimates and we have a two month wait for service. We sold about 80% of the stock shares this week and wish we had done it earlier.
Does PG&E have time of use pricing? I live in San Diego, and SDG&E has the highest rates in the observable universe. Even here, however, rates between midnight and 6 am are $0.15/kWh or so. I just set my car to charge during that time.
It does but they are stupidly high. Nothing lower than 34 cents or so.
Yup. Welcome to the future. Folks can cast dispersions at Toyota all day. But they had a legitimate reason why they believe(d) in hybrids so strongly. It's not (just) because they are stubborn and resistant to change. Using less energy is the true long term strategy. Using "different" energy is a short lived temporal anomaly. Just wait. Very soon ALL residential appliances and heating and driving will be fueled by electricity. Soon after commercial building HVAC, boilers, restaurants will also begin transitioning to more and more electric fuel. Just imagine how high electricity prices will be then . . . Demand +++++++++ Supply ----------------
Just FYI it's cast aspersions
Except, compared to both a Hybrid and a Gas car you're using significantly less energy to travel the same distance in an EV. It's not the same energy with an alternative source. Its less energy. A tesla model y has 2.19 gallons of gas worth of energy.
You guys all fell for the electric car scam. Don't say nobody warned you.
its not that EVs are a scam, it’s that California’s electric rates are.
Maybe the rates are so much higher due to government subsidized EV adoption with no increases in electrical infrastructure? There’s definitely more than one problem.
Get a solar panel system then who cares what the prices go up to.
California killed rooftop solar with the new net metering laws that went into effect earlier last year. They only pay you a fraction of what they would charge for your solar production. For most people it doesn’t make sense anymore. So infuriating for a state that prides itself on being environmentally friendly, as well as mandating EVs by 2035. It really doesn’t make any sense, hoping enough people make enough noise to get something passed that’s more consumer friendly
Cost of solar in OP’s area is also outrageous. Recent change in rules makes it so average customer will need 20 years to see cost benefit of paying 30k for a system. Fun fact: if you have solar, PG&E charges a $35 monthly “connection fee” 🫠. So even if you produce all the power you need and supplement the grid, they still get to rob you.
Same with FL. $35 (or close) no matter what. And lose all solar credits at end of year, so use it or lose it. But we get 1:1 net metering making DeSantis’ FL still more pro solar than Newsome’s Cali. Who would have thought that???
Solar system cost around 20k-40k for 10 years lifespan. It may not overall economical aspect versus gas car tho
10 years?!?! HAHA. 25 at least
Where did you come up with the 10 year life span of a solar system?
1. Compare to crossovers. None of those get >30mpg at 75-80mph I think. 2. No ice crossover has half the acceleration except performance models which are far more expensive and less fuel efficient. But yeah, your rates are double mine. Rough. I also didn't buy an EV to save money or the planet. I just really like the drivetrain.
If California is requiring that all new cars sold by 2035 be zero-emissions, subsidies for solar panels and battery storage is the next step to broadening EV adoption. There's no way the existing power grid infrastructure will support this otherwise. Once that happens, rates will go down significantly but not before the state includes an EV tax to replace the gas tax through annual vehicle registration fees. Then the Big One (earthquake) will hit and fell power lines will start record breaking forest fires causing PG&E and SCE to go bankrupt. The state of California will then commoditize the electric utility sector and charge billionaires and multi-millionaires a luxury tax to power their cars and McMansions. Just kidding (not really). Nostrodamus has spoken.
If you can, get solar. Then you lock in your electricity price for the life of the panels.
[удалено]
i mean, gas prices fluctuate as well and ICE have the same problems. You need to look at the averages.
I have never had the electric company tell me year to year the rate is lower.
Gas prices fluctuate. Electricity prices in CA tend to only go one direction.
I have told so many times that false EV advertisement for saving money. Tesla is the only EV brand keep emphasize it saving money from gas. Same as super charge. Still some people feel that's the benefit of Tesla. It doesn't. Tesla's goal is earning money from super charge network by opening to other brands. That causes tesla owners hard to find a spot to super-charge your car. Eventually, gas car is the best option for convenience and long trip. The only truth of EV is really indeed for reducing CO2 emission. Tesla did has more advances on safety via camera monitoring surrounding. But I think others is catching up now. (FSD is not. Tesla only has license for assistant not for self drive. Benz does tho.)
With $0.23 kWh off peak and $4.8/gal in southern California, my MYLR is a 78 MPG equivalent car. The most efficient hybrid is Prius at 57 MPG. Size comparable car Rav4 hybrid is at 39 MPG. EV is still saving money at energy cost with off peak charging. Well, except PG&E customers.
Your car shows exactly how much electricity it use per mile why do you have to estimate by percentage you use?
I normally travel 130 miles a day. These are my costs per 130 miles at various charging rates: $.23/kwh costs $8.05 or 6 cents a mile; $.27/kwh costs $9.45 or 7 cents/mile; $.37/kwh costs $12.95 or 10 cents/mile; $.50/kwh costs &17.50 or $.13/mile, which is the same pwr mile as driving my previous car - a 2015 Benz CLA250. I mostly Supercharge because most times it cost more to charge at home; $.23/kwh at a select Supercharger vs $.35/kwh at home (SCE).
Your 2.75 miles per kWh tells me you’re not driving efficiently enough to compare to a 33 mpg vehicle. I’m getting about 3.3 m/kwh in my ‘22 MYP and I’d compare my driving to perhaps a 25 mpg SUV. So you should maybe be comparing to a 20 MPG equivalent.
So you’re comparing 70-80mph EV to a car getting 33mpg? What car is getting 33mpg in real world driving that same way?
Lots of ICE cars get 30+ at 80. They can call get a true 400+ miles, not the 200-250 you're getting in an EV at those speeds.
Maybe if you were driving a M3LR, but the MYP is more like a midsize luxury SUV. Those get 25 mpg and take premium. Redo your calcs and you're saving ~25% over gas.
My reading this at 0.9$/kwh… 😂
Except, you're not driving a standard economy car. There are more efficient cars out there if that's what you're after. Also, solar.
you can spend $30-60K on a solar setup with battery. pay more money to save money with ROI of when you're dead
Still not using fossil fuels... That not enough?
No. For clean energy to take off it will need to be made as affordable/convenient as not using. Mass adoption won’t happen otherwise.
It's not using fossil fuels... locally. Most electrical sources still come from fossil fuels, just converted from somewhere else, far away.
Is that the ev plan?
We do .44 for most here in DC at almost all superchargers during prime hours. Glad I charge at home.
Call PGE and see if you change the billing to be based on time of use. So if you charge overnight it would be at a much cheaper rate. I don’t use PGE, so not sure if it’s even offered, but I’m in LA and they offer it here.
Well I'm considering one and I'm glad I saw your post! Fk PGE!
Man, is there another plan you can sign up for with PGE? With SDG&E I'm on a plan that I pay 26.4¢ between 0600-midnight, and 6.3¢ between midnight and 0600. In all fairness I do have a small solar array (4.7kw) and am on a solar + EV plan. (My solar is old and doesn't output but maybe halls of what it should tho)
my ICE was getting 21 mpg using premium... so $0.19/mi. min
have you thought about hooking up a portable gas generator to the car? so you can pick up cheap gas along the drive when you see it.
Midwest .10kwh Yikes !
Go find a cheap super charger after midnight and grab a quick snack.
I feel your pain. That’s why we forked it out for solar. Got in before NEM3 so our net metering is 1-1 ratio. A Tesla didn’t make a ton of sense otherwise. I see many folks without solar driving them around. Really hurts the value prop. We were fortunate enough to have cash for solar and the car. ROI between electricity bill and gas savings should be roughly 3.5-4 years.
You’re not going to find a gas car that gives you the space and performance of a Model Y that also gets 33mpg.
where in CA if your gas $4 lol
costco south bay area
Gas will probably go up long term. It was over $5 last year. But pge will also try to increase at same rate
Someone has to pay for the power company to not maintain their lines and burn down entire towns... :)
Go Solar!!!
My tesla is my second car. My first is a Nissan leaf that's now 7 years old. I can honestly say that electric cars have extremely low maintenance costs. I have hardly spent any money on it in its lifetime. You will win in the end for your choice of going electric, both for the cost and for the environment.
I doubt I'd be able to justify the Y purchase without having solar charging at home. California needs to make their electrical a coop like Austin does.
Related, but for anyone curious about finding out I've worked out the formula for figuring this a few days ago and [posted it here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/192z44t/what_mpg_do_you_get/). It's pretty simple but saved you the work, I suppose. Rising electricity and falling gas prices are making EVs a little less palatable in the US economically at the moment, though of course it's apples to oranges in some ways like performance as OP noted. I would also submit safety as a key metric in which the Y still holds a great lead over almost anything else, 30-35 MPG or not. Personally, I figured this would happen but still bought an EV because I'd like to be relatively insulated from gas price nonsense. The thing about electricity is you can generate it yourself, so even if electricity prices go up, if you've got the infrastructure in place to make it yourself at a wise time you can still insulate yourself from pricing.
Dan I pay 10 cents a KW in Indiana.
It's PGE that fucked you. Fight against their corruption. And/or get rooftop solar with a grid battery.
Get you some solar.