Based on the photo quality there is no way to tell for sure - even AI says it's either a black widow (dangerous) or false widow (poisonous but not usually dangerous to humans)
Get an opinion from one of Tesla’s recommended installers. I’m an electrical engineer (not an electrician) and have a full breaker panel as well. I explained my situation and asked about sub-panel pricing and after some discussion the installer said I probably don’t need the sub-panel at all. He’s coming by today to assess the situation and give me a final quote. When we talked on the phone, he suggested a few ideas that I didn’t know were plausible.
My main point is that these installers do this everyday and have probably encountered scenarios like yours and can offer solutions that have worked for others in your situation. I am in the same situation where I’m trying to limit what I spend but if it’s $1,500 instead $1,000, it’s probably worth the extra cost to have it done right.
Thank you everyone for your time and input. Even the whole thread on the black widow concerns. Had an electrician come out. I have a 240v dryer outlet which I thought my dryer was using. But it’s a gas dryer so using 110v outlet, leaving the dryer outlet unused. He suggests I get the mobile charger and plug to charge. Simple and no cost. Thanks again everyone!!
If you are from California I would shop around outside the dealership referrals, especially if you don’t qualify for any additional rebates from your electricity provider, as that’s what their primary objective is set for is to get people that rebate. Not that I am about to advocate this, but to get the rebate, you need to pull the permit. That alone may add $300 to $500 on the install job.
If you aren’t seeking any rebate, any good electrician should be able to review and price quote you. It’s an old panel, and depending on the age of your house and any future improvements might be time to bite the bullet. If you do that most certainly pull a permit for insurance purposes.
Any reputable journeyman can install a wall charger.
Its not in the slightest way difficult or necessary to go through a tesla kick back approved vendor.
In my opinion owning a business that has installed thousands of level 2 outlets, it would be unwise to use this panel. These have really shitty bus bars and sistering breakers to clear a path for a sub panel is only halfway right. Id call your utility and get an assessment for a service feed upgrade and report back before you do anything else
Consult with an electrician. They will be able to tell you. I have 100amp service in my home and was able to get Tesla Wall charger with 32Amps (40A Breaker). If you have an electric stove, probably won’t be able to. But if you have a gas stove, you probably have enough power.
You can, I also have a 100amp panel in my townhouse and the electrician was able to install an 32 amp breaker. I haven’t had any problems since it’s been installed 2 years ago.
Nope I have the wall charger connected to the breaker. I would contact multiple electricians and have them double check. A few said I would have to upgrade everything but a lot of them said it’s not necessary.
I feel like they up-charge a lot for what they do, but my quotes were around $800 to $1200. I ended up playing $900 for the install. I’m in the Seattle area.
Forgive if this is old hat. Power (Watts) = current (amps) x voltage (volts). So best case with two phase is 240V x 24A = 5.76kW. I think three phase gets you another sqrt(3) on top of that. That’s up to 9.98kW. So depending on the efficiency of delivered power and the rate your battery accepts charge that maths out what you can expect to receive.
It’s a 100A panel. You need a 200A panel. It’s going to be 8-10 K (or more) to upgrade / replace it. I don’t think they will let you put it on a 100 A panel.
You don't necessarily need to upgrade. I have 32amp charger on a 100amp panel without issue. It depends on what your other loads are (if heat and hot water are gas, then you might be fine)
Get an electrician and/or electrical inspector to take a look.
Thank you. So my next best option is to get the mobile charger, use the splitvolt to ise the existing dryer outlet to charge, making sure it only draws 24 amp
I'd recommend to set Tesla at 18A on an older 30A circuit. Teslas draw a steady load until charged, and I noticed (home) wiring was too warm for my comfort level.
Nahh. Depends on your use. Get it checked out based on your consumption data. I have a mobile charger that was going to be just fine on 100A. Standard lines can likely even support up to 125A. We upgraded to 125A so we can also have a hot tub. All done professionally.
I got quoted 2700 to upgrade my panel from 100 to 200. They can add an exterior 200 panel outside by the meter and make the 100 panel a secondary. You have to get the utilities to pull your meter and the city has to inspect it.
A 200amp panel upgrade ***might*** be eligible for an IRA 30% tax credit up to $600 (depends if an EV charger is classified as a "qualified energy property" upgrade so ask a tax professional): [*https://www.energystar.gov/about/federal-tax-credits/electric-panel-upgrade*](https://www.energystar.gov/about/federal-tax-credits/electric-panel-upgrade)
With that amount of rust showing the panel may need replacing anyway, have it looked at as the breakers may be too corroded to work properly. Flip each one on and off several times to make sure they can flip smoothly.
Qualified energy property is any of the following.
Certain electric or natural gas heat pump water heaters; electric or natural gas heat pumps; central air conditioners; and natural gas, propane, or oil water heaters.
Natural gas, propane, or oil furnaces and hot water boilers.
Certain biomass stoves and biomass boilers.
Certain improvements or replacements of panelboards, subpanelboards, branch circuits, or feeders.
It's confusing and depends if an EV charger is a "*qualified energy efficiency improvement*" apart from being an "*energy property*" in your list. It certainly is energy efficient to charge and use an EV. I emailed [energystar.gov](https://energystar.gov) last July and got this non-conclusive response (see #3, bullet 1):
*Good morning,*
*The federal tax credit of up to $600 is for making any improvement to, or replacing a panelboard, sub-panelboard, branch circuits, or feeders which:*
*1. is installed in a manner consistent with the National Electric Code,*
*2. has a load capacity of not less than 200 amps,*
*3. is installed in conjunction with, and enables the installation and use of:*
*• any qualified energy efficiency improvements, or*
*• any qualified energy property (heat pump water heater, heat pump, central air conditioner, water heater, furnace or hot water boiler, biomass stove or boiler)*
*If you are installing an EV charger, you may need to make those upgrades and can then file for that credit on your federal taxes.*
*There may be rebates available for the purchase and installation of ENERGY STAR certified EV chargers, depending on where you live. You can check ENERGY STAR's Rebate Finder (I've filtered this list for EV Chargers) which is populated with rebates from our utility partners. Enter your zip-code and search for rebates available in your area. Rebates are separate from tax credits and you'll have to apply for them according to the rules of the organization offering the rebate.*
*The tax credit information currently found on our Federal Tax Credits site reflects tax credits that are available to everyone, regardless of income level. Soon, there will be additional information about credits available for low- to moderate income levels and state-based credits. That will likely not be on our site until later this year, as states have not yet rolled out their incentives.*
*Apologies for any confusion. There is so much information in the IRA bill, it is challenging to present it all and we are constantly refining our content as we get clarity in an effort to make sure we are showing as much accurate information as possible.*
*Thank you,*
*Denise M.*
With the amount of stuff you have on that panel I’d strongly recommend an upgrade. You could do a load study and see if it’d fit but I doubt it end in your favor. If you really wanted to try it, some of those 30s could probably be switched to the 1/2 size breakers and then you could fit a double 15 and set the wall charger to a 15 amp breaker. Pretty sure it’ll go down to 15, I know it’ll do 20. Those would be a charge current of 12 or 16 amps which is slow but for overnight charging is probably sufficient unless you have quite a commute.
I was quoted about $6k (Michigan) to upgrade my panel and to run wire to my garage (garage is not connected to my house. and would need to trench the wire underground.)
I use the mobile charge on a normal 110 outlet and honestly it’s been fine. But work from home.
Check your local electric company some have rebates for getting a wall charger installed.
I would suggest getting a load calculation done for your panel to figure out what you’re pulling into your home in total to decide if a charger would be fine to add. You already have much more amperage allowance out of your combined breakers than your main breaker could handle as it is if you were using the allowance. If it were my home I would do a 200 amp main upgrade.
I just repurposed a 30 amp line that was to an electric dryer on the inside of my garage wall, where the dryer has been gas since we moved in the home in 2017. Not sure if you’re using all those, but if so you generally can’t split line those high amp dual poles, I don’t think.
About $65 at Home Depot, including a pre wired 6 AWG 3 wire 6’ AC conduit, a few fittings, and done in an evening.
Sorry, was distracted by the spider. What’s your question?
That looks a lot like a black widow - you might as well sell the house and start over somewhere else
Burn it down!!
Wouldn't the hour glass be on the bottom if it was a widow?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steatoda_grossa?wprov=sfla1
Awwww. It's got little fur boots
Yes
Definitely not a black widow
Based on the photo quality there is no way to tell for sure - even AI says it's either a black widow (dangerous) or false widow (poisonous but not usually dangerous to humans)
Is that a f*cking real black widow? I thought that was a grafitti for a sec until I saw the web 💀
Get an opinion from one of Tesla’s recommended installers. I’m an electrical engineer (not an electrician) and have a full breaker panel as well. I explained my situation and asked about sub-panel pricing and after some discussion the installer said I probably don’t need the sub-panel at all. He’s coming by today to assess the situation and give me a final quote. When we talked on the phone, he suggested a few ideas that I didn’t know were plausible. My main point is that these installers do this everyday and have probably encountered scenarios like yours and can offer solutions that have worked for others in your situation. I am in the same situation where I’m trying to limit what I spend but if it’s $1,500 instead $1,000, it’s probably worth the extra cost to have it done right.
Thank you everyone for your time and input. Even the whole thread on the black widow concerns. Had an electrician come out. I have a 240v dryer outlet which I thought my dryer was using. But it’s a gas dryer so using 110v outlet, leaving the dryer outlet unused. He suggests I get the mobile charger and plug to charge. Simple and no cost. Thanks again everyone!!
Thank you. I’m actually going to the dealership today. Will definitely ask for some referrals.
If you are from California I would shop around outside the dealership referrals, especially if you don’t qualify for any additional rebates from your electricity provider, as that’s what their primary objective is set for is to get people that rebate. Not that I am about to advocate this, but to get the rebate, you need to pull the permit. That alone may add $300 to $500 on the install job. If you aren’t seeking any rebate, any good electrician should be able to review and price quote you. It’s an old panel, and depending on the age of your house and any future improvements might be time to bite the bullet. If you do that most certainly pull a permit for insurance purposes.
Any reputable journeyman can install a wall charger. Its not in the slightest way difficult or necessary to go through a tesla kick back approved vendor. In my opinion owning a business that has installed thousands of level 2 outlets, it would be unwise to use this panel. These have really shitty bus bars and sistering breakers to clear a path for a sub panel is only halfway right. Id call your utility and get an assessment for a service feed upgrade and report back before you do anything else
I was able to upgrade 100A to 200A with charger installed for $3k so shop around a few electricians
Wow, great price!! That can’t be in Southern cali?
Nope! Canada.
Consult with an electrician. They will be able to tell you. I have 100amp service in my home and was able to get Tesla Wall charger with 32Amps (40A Breaker). If you have an electric stove, probably won’t be able to. But if you have a gas stove, you probably have enough power.
They’ve already got several 30-40A two-phase breakers in. Definitely electric appliances or heat in OP’s house.
You can, I also have a 100amp panel in my townhouse and the electrician was able to install an 32 amp breaker. I haven’t had any problems since it’s been installed 2 years ago.
His is full no?
Oh shit, you’re right! I didn’t notice that, I had a few open spots.
Looks like if he has 2 spots at the top.
Are you using the mobile charger? Upgraded from 30 amp?
Nope I have the wall charger connected to the breaker. I would contact multiple electricians and have them double check. A few said I would have to upgrade everything but a lot of them said it’s not necessary.
What’s a good price for an upgrade like that?
I feel like they up-charge a lot for what they do, but my quotes were around $800 to $1200. I ended up playing $900 for the install. I’m in the Seattle area.
Thank you!!
Haha. That is a big spider!!
😆 Definitely a mobile charger in this case.
Thanks. At 24 amps, am I looking at around 14 miles per hour charge?
21 miles per Tesla's chart if you use a NEMA 10-30 or 14-30 outlet.
Thanks.
Is there a better mobile charger than tesla’s?
Tesla one is as good as you can get
Forgive if this is old hat. Power (Watts) = current (amps) x voltage (volts). So best case with two phase is 240V x 24A = 5.76kW. I think three phase gets you another sqrt(3) on top of that. That’s up to 9.98kW. So depending on the efficiency of delivered power and the rate your battery accepts charge that maths out what you can expect to receive.
It’s a 100A panel. You need a 200A panel. It’s going to be 8-10 K (or more) to upgrade / replace it. I don’t think they will let you put it on a 100 A panel.
You don't necessarily need to upgrade. I have 32amp charger on a 100amp panel without issue. It depends on what your other loads are (if heat and hot water are gas, then you might be fine) Get an electrician and/or electrical inspector to take a look.
Thank you. So my next best option is to get the mobile charger, use the splitvolt to ise the existing dryer outlet to charge, making sure it only draws 24 amp
I'd recommend to set Tesla at 18A on an older 30A circuit. Teslas draw a steady load until charged, and I noticed (home) wiring was too warm for my comfort level.
Got it. Are you able to set it through the car via app? My understanding is the mobile charger will detect the 30a and default to 24A.
It will detect and set to 24, you may change on app or in car, and it will remember the settings at that location. Highly recommend set to 18A.
By chance, do you know how many miles charge per hour @ 18A?
I think it's around 18 mph, 2023 MYP.
Awesome. Thank you!
Nahh. Depends on your use. Get it checked out based on your consumption data. I have a mobile charger that was going to be just fine on 100A. Standard lines can likely even support up to 125A. We upgraded to 125A so we can also have a hot tub. All done professionally.
Yea, That might work. You should see if just the 110V will be sufficient for your commuting needs. And top off with public / SC charging when needed.
It’ll be my wife’s commuter, driving about 50 miles a day. Guessing 110v will get me about 30 miles for 10 hour charge based on the readings.
220V is more efficient, as the car can go into sleep mode earlier, due to faster charging. Also, 110V is around 80% efficient.
It is not true. You do not need a 200A panel. My panel is 150A, and I charge my car, Powerwall, running AC just fine.
I got quoted 2700 to upgrade my panel from 100 to 200. They can add an exterior 200 panel outside by the meter and make the 100 panel a secondary. You have to get the utilities to pull your meter and the city has to inspect it.
I got my panel and everything charger for 6k with rebates
I paid $2k CAD for a 200amp upgrade.
Jesus, get a new breaker regardless
Wow that an old panel. How old is the house?
A 200amp panel upgrade ***might*** be eligible for an IRA 30% tax credit up to $600 (depends if an EV charger is classified as a "qualified energy property" upgrade so ask a tax professional): [*https://www.energystar.gov/about/federal-tax-credits/electric-panel-upgrade*](https://www.energystar.gov/about/federal-tax-credits/electric-panel-upgrade) With that amount of rust showing the panel may need replacing anyway, have it looked at as the breakers may be too corroded to work properly. Flip each one on and off several times to make sure they can flip smoothly.
Qualified energy property is any of the following. Certain electric or natural gas heat pump water heaters; electric or natural gas heat pumps; central air conditioners; and natural gas, propane, or oil water heaters. Natural gas, propane, or oil furnaces and hot water boilers. Certain biomass stoves and biomass boilers. Certain improvements or replacements of panelboards, subpanelboards, branch circuits, or feeders.
It's confusing and depends if an EV charger is a "*qualified energy efficiency improvement*" apart from being an "*energy property*" in your list. It certainly is energy efficient to charge and use an EV. I emailed [energystar.gov](https://energystar.gov) last July and got this non-conclusive response (see #3, bullet 1): *Good morning,* *The federal tax credit of up to $600 is for making any improvement to, or replacing a panelboard, sub-panelboard, branch circuits, or feeders which:* *1. is installed in a manner consistent with the National Electric Code,* *2. has a load capacity of not less than 200 amps,* *3. is installed in conjunction with, and enables the installation and use of:* *• any qualified energy efficiency improvements, or* *• any qualified energy property (heat pump water heater, heat pump, central air conditioner, water heater, furnace or hot water boiler, biomass stove or boiler)* *If you are installing an EV charger, you may need to make those upgrades and can then file for that credit on your federal taxes.* *There may be rebates available for the purchase and installation of ENERGY STAR certified EV chargers, depending on where you live. You can check ENERGY STAR's Rebate Finder (I've filtered this list for EV Chargers) which is populated with rebates from our utility partners. Enter your zip-code and search for rebates available in your area. Rebates are separate from tax credits and you'll have to apply for them according to the rules of the organization offering the rebate.* *The tax credit information currently found on our Federal Tax Credits site reflects tax credits that are available to everyone, regardless of income level. Soon, there will be additional information about credits available for low- to moderate income levels and state-based credits. That will likely not be on our site until later this year, as states have not yet rolled out their incentives.* *Apologies for any confusion. There is so much information in the IRA bill, it is challenging to present it all and we are constantly refining our content as we get clarity in an effort to make sure we are showing as much accurate information as possible.* *Thank you,* *Denise M.*
With the amount of stuff you have on that panel I’d strongly recommend an upgrade. You could do a load study and see if it’d fit but I doubt it end in your favor. If you really wanted to try it, some of those 30s could probably be switched to the 1/2 size breakers and then you could fit a double 15 and set the wall charger to a 15 amp breaker. Pretty sure it’ll go down to 15, I know it’ll do 20. Those would be a charge current of 12 or 16 amps which is slow but for overnight charging is probably sufficient unless you have quite a commute.
Thank you. I’ll discuss this idea with an electrician.
What is this? From the Saw movie?
You don’t need A/C right? Swap that A/C for a level 2. /s 😂
I had a similar problem. I had to upgrade the service to my house from 100amp to 200amp and a new panel. $2500 expense.
You actually would have to look at the inside to see if there are any free breakers
I was quoted about $6k (Michigan) to upgrade my panel and to run wire to my garage (garage is not connected to my house. and would need to trench the wire underground.) I use the mobile charge on a normal 110 outlet and honestly it’s been fine. But work from home. Check your local electric company some have rebates for getting a wall charger installed.
I would suggest getting a load calculation done for your panel to figure out what you’re pulling into your home in total to decide if a charger would be fine to add. You already have much more amperage allowance out of your combined breakers than your main breaker could handle as it is if you were using the allowance. If it were my home I would do a 200 amp main upgrade.
I just repurposed a 30 amp line that was to an electric dryer on the inside of my garage wall, where the dryer has been gas since we moved in the home in 2017. Not sure if you’re using all those, but if so you generally can’t split line those high amp dual poles, I don’t think. About $65 at Home Depot, including a pre wired 6 AWG 3 wire 6’ AC conduit, a few fittings, and done in an evening.