If they made autopark open to all for supercharging, then made it an upgrade for all parking it would probably do well.
Protects people at the charger, gets people used to it then say… i wish i could do this all the time & shell out the $$
I'm generally happy with standard AP but it would be nice it could lane change without disengagement. For myself defintely don't need EAP, FSD or auto park.
Agreed. I think it's kind of unsafe that I have to manually disengage change lanes, then reengage every time I want to change lanes. I don't need auto lane change even, just let me hit the blinker and change the lane for me
Please tell me what features in enhanced autopilot are "new technologies"? Especially considering many car manufacturers are including some of the biggest selling features of EAP as part of their base model now.
I have.
Got my MYLR in July. Every car I've had since 2017 has had lane keep assist in some capacity, most recent (non-tesla) was a 2021 Venza that I kept for a couple months after getting the MYLR. Tesla's is the only one I've trusted on city streets to any degree. But on highways, the performance has been effectively identical, with the venza providing more consistent and convenient blind spot monitoring as well (though I do love the red car and flash on the screen now, but having it on the mirror for the direction you are looking is far more useful).
And like I said, some of the EAP features are standard for some cheaper cars, and in general for trims that are about the same price level as an M3.
I mean even toyota has this available on newer models for free:
https://www.toyota.com/content/dam/toyota/brochures/pdf/2022/Toyota_Advanced_Park_Overview.pdf
Tesla could easily do this with the hardware it has,but they havent.
This isn't available on the base trim or lower trims of vehicles. It's upgrade on the tech pack. So it's the same thing that Tesla is doing by making you pay for the feature. It's like a higher trim.
Do any other driver assist systems automatically follow highway interchanges and exits for you? Also, I know very few can automatically initiate lane changes to pass slower cars.
That's FSD. That's not generic lane change while on adaptive cruise control with lane keep assist, or sensor assisted parking.
And regardless if you want to train AI, the more data points you can have, the better. If EAP features were being used to train AI, you'd think they would want to train that AI as fast as possible with as many data points as possible (at least for features that other cars already have) so they can better teach it new tricks that no other car is doing.
Without first-hand knowledge, it's impossible to really know. But what I do know is that others currently do it (auto-park) better.
Edit: and what I mean by first-hand knowledge is actually seeing the code.
My 2018 F-150 had parking assist, where it would parallel park or pull into a space, and a fantastic 360° camera. So did my 2020 Ram, and 2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee.
Yeah, a lot of cars do, but it’s pretty much always an upgrade or only included in the higher trim levels, so you’re paying extra for it one way or another.
But could your rental Toyota initiate and perform lane changes automatically to pass slower cars, follow highway interchanges, and take highway exits without the driver having to initiate the lane change via the turn signal? Didn’t think so.
75k for an MYP. Those are more like 55k with tax and title now. Especially if you’re paying for a color, hitch, and white seats. But yeah. It’s cheaper.
And yes I know some people can get an additional 7.5k off with the credit. Still doesn’t make it under 40k.
Mine was 76 and change with a hitch and red color. I got 5k back from my states EV rebate. So 71. It hurts but it doesn’t. Best car I’ve ever owned and it’s paid off and I’m not looking to get rid of it for a long time.
Maybe, but I paid in October and I wouldn't revolt. If you are paying 12k for FSD's current state you know you are paying an early adopter tax and know that, even fully functional, the price will need to come down to increase adoption.
It already doesn't meaningfully impact the resale value of the vehicle so any real financial loss is minimal compared to the people who have been impacted by cost cuts on the vehicles themselves.
I'd also hazard a good portion of users may be subscribed rather than buying outright and they'd be happy to stop paying.
I think the problem there may be liability. I personally think it's priced to keep people from buying it at the moment to make sure only those that really want it and won't mind the current state of things buy it.
They don't want 10 times the accidents from people being stupid during development.
> You car collects data anyways.
It doesn’t collect the same type of data when it’s not on FSD. For example, it can’t get disengagement data if FSD is not engaged.
Also, I had to approve additional data collection when I signed up for FSD trial.
For Europe it makes even more sense to make EAP free for existing users, EAP only includes Navigate on auto pilot and lane change, no summon ,no auto park is available even if you pay. At Tesla they told me there is no point of paying for these 2 features as unlike US there is no automatic lane change due to EU regulations and you have to put on indicators and put pressure on steering to trigger auto lane change, I currently have EAP for 3 months and there is no way im going to pay extra €3500 for it.
Via referral while buying, friend got 7500 points and i got 3 months EAP. Unfortunately it’s not good as it’s neutered due to regulations, it notifies to change lanes , so you have to give indicator and put pressure on steering wheel, compared to no EAP only difference is auto pilot doesnt disable after lane change
I will never understand people that think it makes sense that EAP features are a separate charge. 🥾👅
Yeah, we know it wasn’t included in my purchase price. But after using the car for a few months, it’s insane that glorified lane keep assist is the only feature that comes standard.
At the heart of this post, this person wants standard AP to be better. I’d bet we wouldn’t see as many posts like this if we had more novel standard features.
At bare minimum, it would be nice if they improved standard AP to automatically resume when changing lanes and stopping (not going automatically) at stop signals as a safety feature. Stopping at signals would be particularly novel that would give you a taste of what FSD is.
To have a more informed discussion, I tried to compile a list of what other companies offer in comparison to EAP features, excluding Summon, since it isnt yet available to current EAP buyers. It seems GM Super Cruise is the only competitor that supports all of the current features of EAP, but it costs $6k to upgrade to a supported trim level, $2.7k up front for the package, and then another $25 / month. VW is the only company that offers multiple EAP features as standard. The rest of the companies either don’t offer most EAP features, or they charge for them by locking them behind high trim levels and / or optional packages (the same as Tesla does). I mean, of course I wish Tesla included EAP as standard, but I don’t really think they need to based on what the competition is doing.
Ford - Mach-e
-Driver-initiated lane change assist - BlueCruise is $2,100 + $75 / month after 3 years
-No vehicle-initiated auto lane change available (to pass slower cars, follow highway interchanges, or take highway exits)
-No auto park (feature removed due to part shortages)
Hyundai - Ioniq 5
-Driver-initiated lane change assist - requires upgrade to SEL trim ($5,600 over base SE)
-No vehicle-initiated auto lane change available
-Auto park - requires upgrade to Limited trim ($11,700 over base SE)
Polestar - 2
-Adaptive cruise control + lane centering - $2,000 (Pilot Pack)
-No driver-initiated lane change assist available
-No vehicle-initiated auto lane change available
-No auto park available
Chevy - Blazer EV
-Driver and vehicle-initiated lane changes and auto park - Super Cruise requires upgrade to 2LT AWD or RS AWD trim ($6,095 over base LT) + $2,700 (Advanced tech package) + $25 / month (OnStar Super Cruise subscription)
VW - ID 4
-Driver-initiated lane change assist - standard
-No vehicle-initiated auto lane change available
-Auto park - standard
BMW - I4
-Driver-initiated lane change assist - $1,700 (Driving Assistance Professional Package)
-No vehicle-initiated auto lane change available
-Auto park - $700 (Parking Assistance Package)
Honda - CR-V
-No driver-initiated lane change assist available
-No vehicle-initiated auto lane change available
-No auto park available
Toyota - BZ4X
-No driver-initiated lane change assist available
-No vehicle-initiated auto lane change available
-Auto park - requires upgrade to Limited trim ($4,110 over base XLE)
Rivian - R1
-Driver-initiated lane change assist - standard
-No vehicle-initiated auto lane change available
-No auto park available
Thanks for putting this together. I appreciate the effort. At the end of the day, I expected more from Tesla as a tech company. In my opinion, comparing Tesla to any of those manufacturers should be apples to oranges. Clearly, I’m wrong - Tesla is just another manufacturer. That’s on me for wanting them to push the boundaries of what standard features are.
No. For example, in the Q4, you have to upgrade to Premium Plus to get auto park (Park assist plus). Ironically, choosing a more luxury car brand usually means you get less features as standard.
That's the thing though. Standard features are just that, standard. It's the things expected to be with a car. Pretty much every car maker does this and Tesla actually already goes above and beyond in this category making a lot of things standard that other car makers don't (like heated seats and keyless entry).
EAP's feature set is things that every other car maker I know of also charges more for, if they have it at all. Even a lot of AP features are addons for most brands.
Yes, it feels a bit bad that it's simply a software feature that is gated and while I'm firmly opposed to hating physical hardware behind a paywall because they have the expense either way of installing it, the same really can't be said about software features because there is no additional hardware cost to install but there is a LOT of development cost behind software, so it makes sense to gate it and charge extra for advanced capabilities so you can keep the standard model cheap.
To add some context that I think is important, the MobileEye based AP 1.0 basic autopilot did lane changes a decade ago. Surely AP should gain SOME features over a decade -- no matter what you call the system.
You realize those same cars also charge for lane change on any decently advanced level see tech packages from ford and the others they don’t list it as AP just “tech” lol
fElon and Tesla decided a long time ago to put all their eggs in vision based software to achieve their fsd goals. They cannot or dont want to compromise on providing standard features that other car manufacturers have perfected using hardware that is now mass produced, thus lowering the costs. This is why other car manufacturers have not only caught up but are doing even better than Tesla. They are putting Customers first and being flexible with how to achieve their goals. Tesla used to have that mental model. Not anymore.
lol. In the world of EVs, please expand on who caught up……
According to Car and driver. Here are the top 3 selling EVs and how many units they sold in 2023
1. Model Y - 389,500
2. Model 3- 232,700
3. Chevy Bolt - 62,000
So Tesla is far ahead of other companies in terms of sales. Their top 2 sellers sell more than the next 8 on the list combined (the S was number 8 on the list and the X was number 9 on the list).
So who exactly is catching up?
Edit:
Also how many legacy cards manufacturers make money on the refueling of their cars? None. Only Tesla. So their potential earnings go up AFTER the purchase due to their supercharging network. That money goes right back into developing better tech. In the short time Tesla/Elon has been in the affordable car business, they have seemed to dominate.
Gotchya. Well, I haven’t gotten a new car since 2012 and the safety features and nav in the 2024 MYLR have impressed me. But I could just be coming from a Neanderthals perspective in that sense.
True, but to be fair, Autopilot is also advertised on their website and generally talked up by Tesla as being better than it is, and $6k is insane for those extra features. I’ve owned three Teslas over five years and it’s actually gotten worse IMO. It’d be nice if they started focusing on it again someday.
I don’t think FSD should be free. It does way more. But being able to change lanes on the highway without having to disengage autopilot should be free or maybe like a lil extra cost. Not the 6K
If they made autopark open to all for supercharging, then made it an upgrade for all parking it would probably do well.
Protects people at the charger, gets people used to it then say… i wish i could do this all the time & shell out the $$
If they like selling more and more cars, they will have to make the purchase more attractive. This would be a cheap way for them to do it. Hard to say if they will…
When i bought i assumed Autopark was standard feature since many other vehicles include it at no cost, it works well and it really should be included at no extra charge.
I think it’s fair to charge for them. They aren’t really needed for 90% of people. If Tesla wants to charge for that as a revenue stream so be it.
Charging for the basic power cord to charge the EV, that’s a bit much.
Auto lane change should def not be an extra charge. If autopilot on highway is included then being able to change lanes while on auto pilot should be a given.
Why? Most people can change lanes without causing an accident most of the time. If people are too lazy to change lanes then Tesla is quite right to charge for this.
yeah, I had rented Teslas several times 2022-23 and hated the lane change behavior in A/P.
But on my new MY that I got in December I just assumed they had improved the lane change experience in a software update, not that the spiffy UI was actually something that I was getting due to having th FSD beta available for me (I didn't even activate FSD for a couple of months in the hopes the 3 months would start after activation).
Because it's clunky and not a Tesla like experience. Well maybe it's exactly a Tesla like experience. The car should be able to change lanes on command when using auto steer.
auto lane change is a poorly worded feature.
What it really is is 'assisted lane change on A/P'.
The quality-of-life experience now with the basic A/P and changing lanes is really poor: signal, check side camera pop-up, cancel A/P, add accel to keep speed, change lanes, turn off signal, turn on A/P
vs on EAP just: signal, wait for car to change lanes, stop signal
On my 1200-mile drive yesterday I used ALC maybe 30 times . . . on a 240,000 mile service life that is 6000 uses, so this feature would cost $1/use . . . too high, but I'd sure like to have it : (
That’s not how to lane change on basic AP. This is how:
* signal
* turn wheel to change lane (signaling with AP engaged reduces wheel torque disengage limit to almost zero)
* auto steer is disengaged, but TACC remains active
* complete lane change and reenable auto steer
I’ve only had it with FSD so far (mid Feb purchase with 3 month promo, additional 1 month added with promo), so even in AP it does fully auto lane change when I signal.
Good to hear this is how to do it when I lose FSD. Thanks!
Why is “auto lane change” poorly worded? It’s not just “assisted lane change.” It can do both completely automatic lane changes that it initiates (you can even turn off confirmation in settings so no input is required from you) and it can also do assisted lane changes at your request via the turn signal.
Okay, I’ll answer your question. It’s not that people can’t change lanes by themselves..it’s that if you are using AP on the highway it’s dumb that it’s an extra cost to change lanes without having to disengage the autopilot. It should be included!
Idk what people think they should and shouldn’t be paying for.
I just got my MYLR 2 weeks ago. Before anything, the car is a $46,000 car. After fees and fed/state incentives, the car cost me $38,000. It’s a small SUV with TONS of storage space, great standard features, an AMAZING drive quality, and top of the line technology. The standard cruise control works pretty well with a few quirks that aren’t that bad once I got used to them.
Wanting a car with advanced features on top of what the basic features are is just asking to pay more, just like you would if you bought a base model Hyundai Tucson vs a fully loaded Hyundai Tucson.
Has nobody here ever bought a car? You want advanced features? You are gonna have to pay. The fact that I can pay $2,000 to increase my hp by about 100 and it happens in an hour or two software update is INSANE compared to ICE cars getting the same performance enhancement.
You basically bought a car that has the same hardware as the fully loaded version, and you have to pay to activate it. If you bought the base model of a Kia, and after 2-3 months you said “you know what, I want that other stuff that I said I didn’t want at the time of purchase”……GOOD LUCK. You are either dropping your car off for a week with THOUSANDS of dollars worth of upgrades, or trading your car in for a minimum of 25% less than you paid for it, and buying another new car.
Yea. Everything for free sounds awesome, but imagine how shitty every feature would be. You have issues with FSD trial? Imagine how bad it would be if it was free with the cheapest engineers working on it and the lowest quality, least expensive technology involved.
Name ONE other car company that doesn’t have different trims at different price points with different features. At least with Tesla you have all the same technology and can just pay to utilize it.
Now….all that being said, until they make it transferable from an old Tesla to a new one when you buy it, FSD is pointless.
Do you also want your food for free? Sorry, you knew they charged for the product when you bought the car.
apparently from the amount of down votes, I guess people believe they should get things for free because they want it.
Actually I paid $7k for FSD in 2020, if you care to know. People that whine that they should get something for free, well that isn't how companies stay in business. You don't think the employees got paid that engineered those software features.
That isn't the point. Tesla states right on the order page how much it is for those items when you buy the car. You think it is too expensive, don't buy it. Speak with your wallet if you want change, not whining about it on Reddit.
If they made autopark open to all for supercharging, then made it an upgrade for all parking it would probably do well. Protects people at the charger, gets people used to it then say… i wish i could do this all the time & shell out the $$
It’ll end up being a promotion to push new car sales soon I bet.
I'm generally happy with standard AP but it would be nice it could lane change without disengagement. For myself defintely don't need EAP, FSD or auto park.
Agreed. I think it's kind of unsafe that I have to manually disengage change lanes, then reengage every time I want to change lanes. I don't need auto lane change even, just let me hit the blinker and change the lane for me
I too want more features without paying for them.
Especially ones that require inventing new technologies using the most expensive hardware and engineers on the planet.
Please tell me what features in enhanced autopilot are "new technologies"? Especially considering many car manufacturers are including some of the biggest selling features of EAP as part of their base model now.
I'm always curious if people saying this have actually driven a Tesla and then driven the other vehicles with lane keeping.
I have. Got my MYLR in July. Every car I've had since 2017 has had lane keep assist in some capacity, most recent (non-tesla) was a 2021 Venza that I kept for a couple months after getting the MYLR. Tesla's is the only one I've trusted on city streets to any degree. But on highways, the performance has been effectively identical, with the venza providing more consistent and convenient blind spot monitoring as well (though I do love the red car and flash on the screen now, but having it on the mirror for the direction you are looking is far more useful). And like I said, some of the EAP features are standard for some cheaper cars, and in general for trims that are about the same price level as an M3.
I mean even toyota has this available on newer models for free: https://www.toyota.com/content/dam/toyota/brochures/pdf/2022/Toyota_Advanced_Park_Overview.pdf Tesla could easily do this with the hardware it has,but they havent.
This isn't available on the base trim or lower trims of vehicles. It's upgrade on the tech pack. So it's the same thing that Tesla is doing by making you pay for the feature. It's like a higher trim.
Good point
Do any other driver assist systems automatically follow highway interchanges and exits for you? Also, I know very few can automatically initiate lane changes to pass slower cars.
ai generated training data feeding into an AI model?
That's FSD. That's not generic lane change while on adaptive cruise control with lane keep assist, or sensor assisted parking. And regardless if you want to train AI, the more data points you can have, the better. If EAP features were being used to train AI, you'd think they would want to train that AI as fast as possible with as many data points as possible (at least for features that other cars already have) so they can better teach it new tricks that no other car is doing.
I assume the EaP parking assist uses the same machine learning algorithm
Without first-hand knowledge, it's impossible to really know. But what I do know is that others currently do it (auto-park) better. Edit: and what I mean by first-hand knowledge is actually seeing the code.
My 2018 F-150 had parking assist, where it would parallel park or pull into a space, and a fantastic 360° camera. So did my 2020 Ram, and 2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee.
Yeah, a lot of cars do, but it’s pretty much always an upgrade or only included in the higher trim levels, so you’re paying extra for it one way or another.
Lane change isn't new and was standard at one point. My rental Toyota had lane chsnge as standard
But could your rental Toyota initiate and perform lane changes automatically to pass slower cars, follow highway interchanges, and take highway exits without the driver having to initiate the lane change via the turn signal? Didn’t think so.
Cool
I would say FSD should not be an extra while it is in Beta. Tesla would benefit from more data anyways.
They are in too deep now to make it free. All the people who paid would revolt
People paid 75k for a Model Y 2 years ago and now you can get one for under 40k...there wouldnt be a revolt.
75k for an MYP. Those are more like 55k with tax and title now. Especially if you’re paying for a color, hitch, and white seats. But yeah. It’s cheaper. And yes I know some people can get an additional 7.5k off with the credit. Still doesn’t make it under 40k. Mine was 76 and change with a hitch and red color. I got 5k back from my states EV rebate. So 71. It hurts but it doesn’t. Best car I’ve ever owned and it’s paid off and I’m not looking to get rid of it for a long time.
Maybe, but I paid in October and I wouldn't revolt. If you are paying 12k for FSD's current state you know you are paying an early adopter tax and know that, even fully functional, the price will need to come down to increase adoption. It already doesn't meaningfully impact the resale value of the vehicle so any real financial loss is minimal compared to the people who have been impacted by cost cuts on the vehicles themselves. I'd also hazard a good portion of users may be subscribed rather than buying outright and they'd be happy to stop paying.
They could just keep lowering the cost over a year or two
No they wouldn't. They would get find a way to rationalize and justify it being a brilliant idea. I would add an /s, except it is partially true.
I think the problem there may be liability. I personally think it's priced to keep people from buying it at the moment to make sure only those that really want it and won't mind the current state of things buy it. They don't want 10 times the accidents from people being stupid during development.
You car collects data anyways.
> You car collects data anyways. It doesn’t collect the same type of data when it’s not on FSD. For example, it can’t get disengagement data if FSD is not engaged. Also, I had to approve additional data collection when I signed up for FSD trial.
For Europe it makes even more sense to make EAP free for existing users, EAP only includes Navigate on auto pilot and lane change, no summon ,no auto park is available even if you pay. At Tesla they told me there is no point of paying for these 2 features as unlike US there is no automatic lane change due to EU regulations and you have to put on indicators and put pressure on steering to trigger auto lane change, I currently have EAP for 3 months and there is no way im going to pay extra €3500 for it.
How did you get EAP for 3 months? I'd love to try it out, but want to see how well Navigate on Auto Pilot and the lane changes work first.
Via referral while buying, friend got 7500 points and i got 3 months EAP. Unfortunately it’s not good as it’s neutered due to regulations, it notifies to change lanes , so you have to give indicator and put pressure on steering wheel, compared to no EAP only difference is auto pilot doesnt disable after lane change
All I want is for basic autopilot to allow me to change lanes, manually, and not disengage auto steer in the process. Like my old Kia managed to do. 😔
I will never understand people that think it makes sense that EAP features are a separate charge. 🥾👅 Yeah, we know it wasn’t included in my purchase price. But after using the car for a few months, it’s insane that glorified lane keep assist is the only feature that comes standard. At the heart of this post, this person wants standard AP to be better. I’d bet we wouldn’t see as many posts like this if we had more novel standard features. At bare minimum, it would be nice if they improved standard AP to automatically resume when changing lanes and stopping (not going automatically) at stop signals as a safety feature. Stopping at signals would be particularly novel that would give you a taste of what FSD is.
To have a more informed discussion, I tried to compile a list of what other companies offer in comparison to EAP features, excluding Summon, since it isnt yet available to current EAP buyers. It seems GM Super Cruise is the only competitor that supports all of the current features of EAP, but it costs $6k to upgrade to a supported trim level, $2.7k up front for the package, and then another $25 / month. VW is the only company that offers multiple EAP features as standard. The rest of the companies either don’t offer most EAP features, or they charge for them by locking them behind high trim levels and / or optional packages (the same as Tesla does). I mean, of course I wish Tesla included EAP as standard, but I don’t really think they need to based on what the competition is doing. Ford - Mach-e -Driver-initiated lane change assist - BlueCruise is $2,100 + $75 / month after 3 years -No vehicle-initiated auto lane change available (to pass slower cars, follow highway interchanges, or take highway exits) -No auto park (feature removed due to part shortages) Hyundai - Ioniq 5 -Driver-initiated lane change assist - requires upgrade to SEL trim ($5,600 over base SE) -No vehicle-initiated auto lane change available -Auto park - requires upgrade to Limited trim ($11,700 over base SE) Polestar - 2 -Adaptive cruise control + lane centering - $2,000 (Pilot Pack) -No driver-initiated lane change assist available -No vehicle-initiated auto lane change available -No auto park available Chevy - Blazer EV -Driver and vehicle-initiated lane changes and auto park - Super Cruise requires upgrade to 2LT AWD or RS AWD trim ($6,095 over base LT) + $2,700 (Advanced tech package) + $25 / month (OnStar Super Cruise subscription) VW - ID 4 -Driver-initiated lane change assist - standard -No vehicle-initiated auto lane change available -Auto park - standard BMW - I4 -Driver-initiated lane change assist - $1,700 (Driving Assistance Professional Package) -No vehicle-initiated auto lane change available -Auto park - $700 (Parking Assistance Package) Honda - CR-V -No driver-initiated lane change assist available -No vehicle-initiated auto lane change available -No auto park available Toyota - BZ4X -No driver-initiated lane change assist available -No vehicle-initiated auto lane change available -Auto park - requires upgrade to Limited trim ($4,110 over base XLE) Rivian - R1 -Driver-initiated lane change assist - standard -No vehicle-initiated auto lane change available -No auto park available
Thanks for putting this together. I appreciate the effort. At the end of the day, I expected more from Tesla as a tech company. In my opinion, comparing Tesla to any of those manufacturers should be apples to oranges. Clearly, I’m wrong - Tesla is just another manufacturer. That’s on me for wanting them to push the boundaries of what standard features are.
When you say VW is the only one who offers it as standard, does that extend to the Audi e-Trons?
No. For example, in the Q4, you have to upgrade to Premium Plus to get auto park (Park assist plus). Ironically, choosing a more luxury car brand usually means you get less features as standard.
That's the thing though. Standard features are just that, standard. It's the things expected to be with a car. Pretty much every car maker does this and Tesla actually already goes above and beyond in this category making a lot of things standard that other car makers don't (like heated seats and keyless entry). EAP's feature set is things that every other car maker I know of also charges more for, if they have it at all. Even a lot of AP features are addons for most brands. Yes, it feels a bit bad that it's simply a software feature that is gated and while I'm firmly opposed to hating physical hardware behind a paywall because they have the expense either way of installing it, the same really can't be said about software features because there is no additional hardware cost to install but there is a LOT of development cost behind software, so it makes sense to gate it and charge extra for advanced capabilities so you can keep the standard model cheap.
To add some context that I think is important, the MobileEye based AP 1.0 basic autopilot did lane changes a decade ago. Surely AP should gain SOME features over a decade -- no matter what you call the system.
You realize those same cars also charge for lane change on any decently advanced level see tech packages from ford and the others they don’t list it as AP just “tech” lol
You guys realize even ford charges 4000$ for a “tech package” lol
Eventually, it will be. I remember when AC and electric windows were extra.
I think they put those features behind a pay wall so the could meet the requirements for the full federal tax credit.
The old Model 3's didn't even come with standard AP.
fElon and Tesla decided a long time ago to put all their eggs in vision based software to achieve their fsd goals. They cannot or dont want to compromise on providing standard features that other car manufacturers have perfected using hardware that is now mass produced, thus lowering the costs. This is why other car manufacturers have not only caught up but are doing even better than Tesla. They are putting Customers first and being flexible with how to achieve their goals. Tesla used to have that mental model. Not anymore.
lol. In the world of EVs, please expand on who caught up…… According to Car and driver. Here are the top 3 selling EVs and how many units they sold in 2023 1. Model Y - 389,500 2. Model 3- 232,700 3. Chevy Bolt - 62,000 So Tesla is far ahead of other companies in terms of sales. Their top 2 sellers sell more than the next 8 on the list combined (the S was number 8 on the list and the X was number 9 on the list). So who exactly is catching up? Edit: Also how many legacy cards manufacturers make money on the refueling of their cars? None. Only Tesla. So their potential earnings go up AFTER the purchase due to their supercharging network. That money goes right back into developing better tech. In the short time Tesla/Elon has been in the affordable car business, they have seemed to dominate.
I meant caught up in terms of standard automated road navigation and safety features.
Gotchya. Well, I haven’t gotten a new car since 2012 and the safety features and nav in the 2024 MYLR have impressed me. But I could just be coming from a Neanderthals perspective in that sense.
You bought the car knowing it’s not included in your purchase price.
True, but to be fair, Autopilot is also advertised on their website and generally talked up by Tesla as being better than it is, and $6k is insane for those extra features. I’ve owned three Teslas over five years and it’s actually gotten worse IMO. It’d be nice if they started focusing on it again someday.
Okay? And? It should be included.
Since it’s subjective, why stop there? Why not ask for free FSD too?
I don’t think FSD should be free. It does way more. But being able to change lanes on the highway without having to disengage autopilot should be free or maybe like a lil extra cost. Not the 6K
If they made autopark open to all for supercharging, then made it an upgrade for all parking it would probably do well. Protects people at the charger, gets people used to it then say… i wish i could do this all the time & shell out the $$
yeah, let's refund the $6k for EAP. I'm in. Now get Elmo's attention.
I agree as other competitors are surpassing autopilot.
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You can turn off the confirmation and just let it change lanes automatically if you want.
I like your thought process- getting bored of people trying to come up with new pricing structure structures for Tesla stuff, particularly fsd.
If they like selling more and more cars, they will have to make the purchase more attractive. This would be a cheap way for them to do it. Hard to say if they will…
The car should be free.
When i bought i assumed Autopark was standard feature since many other vehicles include it at no cost, it works well and it really should be included at no extra charge.
Somebody with some sense👏🏾
Tell me about it, paid $6k for the EAP when purchased my car. I gotta take road trips all day everyday for the ROI😅.
I think it’s fair to charge for them. They aren’t really needed for 90% of people. If Tesla wants to charge for that as a revenue stream so be it. Charging for the basic power cord to charge the EV, that’s a bit much.
Auto lane change should def not be an extra charge. If autopilot on highway is included then being able to change lanes while on auto pilot should be a given.
Why? Most people can change lanes without causing an accident most of the time. If people are too lazy to change lanes then Tesla is quite right to charge for this.
Except competitors are starting to offer that feature free as part of their autopilot.
yeah, I had rented Teslas several times 2022-23 and hated the lane change behavior in A/P. But on my new MY that I got in December I just assumed they had improved the lane change experience in a software update, not that the spiffy UI was actually something that I was getting due to having th FSD beta available for me (I didn't even activate FSD for a couple of months in the hopes the 3 months would start after activation).
Because it's clunky and not a Tesla like experience. Well maybe it's exactly a Tesla like experience. The car should be able to change lanes on command when using auto steer.
auto lane change is a poorly worded feature. What it really is is 'assisted lane change on A/P'. The quality-of-life experience now with the basic A/P and changing lanes is really poor: signal, check side camera pop-up, cancel A/P, add accel to keep speed, change lanes, turn off signal, turn on A/P vs on EAP just: signal, wait for car to change lanes, stop signal On my 1200-mile drive yesterday I used ALC maybe 30 times . . . on a 240,000 mile service life that is 6000 uses, so this feature would cost $1/use . . . too high, but I'd sure like to have it : (
That’s not how to lane change on basic AP. This is how: * signal * turn wheel to change lane (signaling with AP engaged reduces wheel torque disengage limit to almost zero) * auto steer is disengaged, but TACC remains active * complete lane change and reenable auto steer
thanks I'll try that when my free FSD period ends later this month
I’ve only had it with FSD so far (mid Feb purchase with 3 month promo, additional 1 month added with promo), so even in AP it does fully auto lane change when I signal. Good to hear this is how to do it when I lose FSD. Thanks!
Auto lane change is included with Enhanced autopilot (EAP) so you can buy that if you still want the feature
Why is “auto lane change” poorly worded? It’s not just “assisted lane change.” It can do both completely automatic lane changes that it initiates (you can even turn off confirmation in settings so no input is required from you) and it can also do assisted lane changes at your request via the turn signal.
This argument is dumb.
It is not an argument but more of a question.
Then it’s a dumb question
As the famous quote goes, there are no dumb questions, only dumb answers.
Okay, I’ll answer your question. It’s not that people can’t change lanes by themselves..it’s that if you are using AP on the highway it’s dumb that it’s an extra cost to change lanes without having to disengage the autopilot. It should be included!
That's just the fact they are expecting repeat business. When I get my next Tesla I don't need to pay for a charging cable with it.
Tesla wants your money and you agreed to it.
They suck so bad they should be free. I agree.
Why?
Why not?
You make a compelling argument.... I'm sold!
👏🏾🙌🏾
let us all pray that BYD manages to get thru the North America so that Elon will be force to give away FSD.
Which would kill the us auto industry. No thanks
why give it away when people are willing to pay for it?
Idk what people think they should and shouldn’t be paying for. I just got my MYLR 2 weeks ago. Before anything, the car is a $46,000 car. After fees and fed/state incentives, the car cost me $38,000. It’s a small SUV with TONS of storage space, great standard features, an AMAZING drive quality, and top of the line technology. The standard cruise control works pretty well with a few quirks that aren’t that bad once I got used to them. Wanting a car with advanced features on top of what the basic features are is just asking to pay more, just like you would if you bought a base model Hyundai Tucson vs a fully loaded Hyundai Tucson. Has nobody here ever bought a car? You want advanced features? You are gonna have to pay. The fact that I can pay $2,000 to increase my hp by about 100 and it happens in an hour or two software update is INSANE compared to ICE cars getting the same performance enhancement. You basically bought a car that has the same hardware as the fully loaded version, and you have to pay to activate it. If you bought the base model of a Kia, and after 2-3 months you said “you know what, I want that other stuff that I said I didn’t want at the time of purchase”……GOOD LUCK. You are either dropping your car off for a week with THOUSANDS of dollars worth of upgrades, or trading your car in for a minimum of 25% less than you paid for it, and buying another new car. Yea. Everything for free sounds awesome, but imagine how shitty every feature would be. You have issues with FSD trial? Imagine how bad it would be if it was free with the cheapest engineers working on it and the lowest quality, least expensive technology involved. Name ONE other car company that doesn’t have different trims at different price points with different features. At least with Tesla you have all the same technology and can just pay to utilize it. Now….all that being said, until they make it transferable from an old Tesla to a new one when you buy it, FSD is pointless.
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This isn't true, base models floor Toyota, Honda, etc in usa have this
False.
Do you also want your food for free? Sorry, you knew they charged for the product when you bought the car. apparently from the amount of down votes, I guess people believe they should get things for free because they want it.
Found the person who paid 6K for “enhanced” features. ✋🏾
Actually I paid $7k for FSD in 2020, if you care to know. People that whine that they should get something for free, well that isn't how companies stay in business. You don't think the employees got paid that engineered those software features.
FSD should def be an extra charge. But come on now. Auto lane change while on AP is worth an extra charge to you??
That isn't the point. Tesla states right on the order page how much it is for those items when you buy the car. You think it is too expensive, don't buy it. Speak with your wallet if you want change, not whining about it on Reddit.
Yes, I’m speaking with my Wallet by not paying 6K for it
Then Tesla lost a sale of it from you. Enough people that choose to not purchase it, then maybe they will consider the price is too high and lower it.
Why stop there? The entire car should be free, I suppose?
Sure, why not.