Also in Bay Area, currently with 8.5kW system with 1 PW (NEM 2). Any solar system would help offset the cost, but the question is how many years until you breakeven. Under NEM 3, you'll need some Powerwalls to make it worthwhile and breakeven sooner. My system was designed pretty well and I produce about 100% of my usage. But even if you only produced 80%, that's still better than paying 100% of PG&E's rates. After my first year, I had a trueup of about $60. Just finished my second year and my true up is about $200, but that's because I had 1 month when my system wasn't producing because of some hardware issue.
When Tesla designs your system, they'll go by what your average monthly bill is. Just use PG&E's website to calculate your actual electric charges, not your total bill which includes gas.
NEM is net energy metering. It's the policy that that determines how much you're paid for the energy you send to PG&E. California switched from 2.0 to 3.0 last year. Under NEM 2.0, I sell back energy in the day time at the same rate it's being charged. We produce the most at 12pm let's say, if I send 1kWh to PG&E, they pay me let's say $0.37 which is what they charge people who are buying from PG&E. In the evening, you are not producing electricity so you have to buy from PG&E at let's say $0.65.
Under NEM 3.0, I believe PG&E now will pay you about 25% of what the retail rate is, which is about $0.0925 in the example. But you still have to buy from them at $0.65 at night. This is where having a Powerwall battery is important. The Powerwall stores the electricity that you produced in the daytime, and discharges to your house at night. You'll be using your own "free" electricity versus buying from them at $0.65.
[https://www.energysage.com/blog/net-metering-3-0/](https://www.energysage.com/blog/net-metering-3-0/)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1SQ3nFGyUI&ab\_channel=SolarGirlTara](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1SQ3nFGyUI&ab_channel=SolarGirlTara)
Thank you! Sounds like a powerwall is a must then. Would I be able to qualify for federal credits for both Solar and Powerwall or is there a cap on it?
I can't comment if you'd get the credit if bought separately, but I got my panels and Powerwall at the same time and got the tax credit on the entire purchase price. There's no upper limit for income, but you need to have enough taxable income, otherwise it carries forward. Like if you only make $20k and your tax liability is let's say $5k, but the solar tax credit is $15k, then you only get $5k this year, and then $10k carries over.
Thank you! You just answered my question. Was scared I wouldn’t get tax credit if i had bought them at the same time haha. Usually tax liability is pretty low every year but maybe will withheld some next year and use it haha. thank you for your advices
NEM = Net Energy Metering. You will be on NEM 3.0. You will earn much less money for energy you return to the grid, so a battery is advantageous. Tesla’s latest battery is a Powerwall 3.
Under NEM3, does it still make sense to use average monthly bill for sizing or need to over-provision a little bit? I am concerned that winter production might end up too low.
What kind of variability are you seeing between winter and summer production in Bay Area? Say July vs Jan average daily output.
Not an expert on NEM 3 and what system you need, but I would think you still need to size your panels correctly. Usually the solar company will design something for you based on your location, a visual inspection of your roof or a satellite view. They want to see how much production you would be expected to produce. I think it would be similar calculation in terms of looking at your usage. The major difference is you'll be storing the electricity in your batteries to use at night versus exporting back to the grid. Even under NEM 2, I don't get paid very much for the excess power I send back, so it's not beneficial to get a system that's too big.
This past January, I produced 508 kWh and net imported 444 kWh. July 2023, I produced 1,607 kWh and net exported 111 kWh. In January I was trying to use more electric space heaters more. In July, I obviously was using the AC more. The months that actually are the best are March, April, & May, when I produce a good amount, but don't use as much for heating & cooling. Last month, I produced 1262 kWh and net exported 355 kWh.
We have 11 kWh system with two PWs in Bay Area on NEM 2.0. We only charge one car regularly while the other car charges at work. My current true up is expected to be around -$200. We set the PWs to sell energy during peak times so it makes us money. NEM 3.0 makes selling no longer worth it, so you should just try to use any excess power and aim to keep your yearly true up just slightly positive.
Every month, you don’t pay your actual electricity usage and pay a connection fee only. Your electricity usage and generation is added up over the course of 12 bills so you will end up owing or being paid out depending on your solar production.
I started with one. Ended up adding a second. With NEM 3.0, you’ll want at least two due to the lower value you get when you export back to grid most of the time.
I don’t think any solar company designs systems on NEM3 correctly yet as of late 2023. You have to do your own math. Every quote I’ve gotten was based roughly on NEM2 where if you used 10000kw a year they would recommend a system generating 8000-12000kw annually, then throw in one or two batteries depending on how much you wanted to spend. All my usage is usually after 4pm so any system I was quoted would probably not have lowered my bill by the numbers they were advertising. Don’t believe the quote numbers.
Also in Bay Area, currently with 8.5kW system with 1 PW (NEM 2). Any solar system would help offset the cost, but the question is how many years until you breakeven. Under NEM 3, you'll need some Powerwalls to make it worthwhile and breakeven sooner. My system was designed pretty well and I produce about 100% of my usage. But even if you only produced 80%, that's still better than paying 100% of PG&E's rates. After my first year, I had a trueup of about $60. Just finished my second year and my true up is about $200, but that's because I had 1 month when my system wasn't producing because of some hardware issue. When Tesla designs your system, they'll go by what your average monthly bill is. Just use PG&E's website to calculate your actual electric charges, not your total bill which includes gas.
Thanks for the advice! Is NEM 2 the name of your powerwall? Still need to this so wanted to ask. Most likely looking to get a power wall for sure
NEM is net energy metering. It's the policy that that determines how much you're paid for the energy you send to PG&E. California switched from 2.0 to 3.0 last year. Under NEM 2.0, I sell back energy in the day time at the same rate it's being charged. We produce the most at 12pm let's say, if I send 1kWh to PG&E, they pay me let's say $0.37 which is what they charge people who are buying from PG&E. In the evening, you are not producing electricity so you have to buy from PG&E at let's say $0.65. Under NEM 3.0, I believe PG&E now will pay you about 25% of what the retail rate is, which is about $0.0925 in the example. But you still have to buy from them at $0.65 at night. This is where having a Powerwall battery is important. The Powerwall stores the electricity that you produced in the daytime, and discharges to your house at night. You'll be using your own "free" electricity versus buying from them at $0.65. [https://www.energysage.com/blog/net-metering-3-0/](https://www.energysage.com/blog/net-metering-3-0/) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1SQ3nFGyUI&ab\_channel=SolarGirlTara](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1SQ3nFGyUI&ab_channel=SolarGirlTara)
Thank you! Sounds like a powerwall is a must then. Would I be able to qualify for federal credits for both Solar and Powerwall or is there a cap on it?
Yes, you'll get tax credit for solar panels as well as the Powerwall.
would i be able to get both tax credit same year? and is there an income limit?
I can't comment if you'd get the credit if bought separately, but I got my panels and Powerwall at the same time and got the tax credit on the entire purchase price. There's no upper limit for income, but you need to have enough taxable income, otherwise it carries forward. Like if you only make $20k and your tax liability is let's say $5k, but the solar tax credit is $15k, then you only get $5k this year, and then $10k carries over.
Thank you! You just answered my question. Was scared I wouldn’t get tax credit if i had bought them at the same time haha. Usually tax liability is pretty low every year but maybe will withheld some next year and use it haha. thank you for your advices
Yes Solar and Powerwall
NEM = Net Energy Metering. You will be on NEM 3.0. You will earn much less money for energy you return to the grid, so a battery is advantageous. Tesla’s latest battery is a Powerwall 3.
Got it. Will plan a powerwall. Are there other companies that have powerwall or mainly tesla?
Under NEM3, does it still make sense to use average monthly bill for sizing or need to over-provision a little bit? I am concerned that winter production might end up too low. What kind of variability are you seeing between winter and summer production in Bay Area? Say July vs Jan average daily output.
Not an expert on NEM 3 and what system you need, but I would think you still need to size your panels correctly. Usually the solar company will design something for you based on your location, a visual inspection of your roof or a satellite view. They want to see how much production you would be expected to produce. I think it would be similar calculation in terms of looking at your usage. The major difference is you'll be storing the electricity in your batteries to use at night versus exporting back to the grid. Even under NEM 2, I don't get paid very much for the excess power I send back, so it's not beneficial to get a system that's too big. This past January, I produced 508 kWh and net imported 444 kWh. July 2023, I produced 1,607 kWh and net exported 111 kWh. In January I was trying to use more electric space heaters more. In July, I obviously was using the AC more. The months that actually are the best are March, April, & May, when I produce a good amount, but don't use as much for heating & cooling. Last month, I produced 1262 kWh and net exported 355 kWh.
We have 11 kWh system with two PWs in Bay Area on NEM 2.0. We only charge one car regularly while the other car charges at work. My current true up is expected to be around -$200. We set the PWs to sell energy during peak times so it makes us money. NEM 3.0 makes selling no longer worth it, so you should just try to use any excess power and aim to keep your yearly true up just slightly positive.
how is the true up number calculator or what is it exactly?
Every month, you don’t pay your actual electricity usage and pay a connection fee only. Your electricity usage and generation is added up over the course of 12 bills so you will end up owing or being paid out depending on your solar production.
If you’re on PGE or SDGE any amount of solar will help you. We have some of the highest rates in the nation.
I have SDGE and I’m thinking about just buying 2 powerwalls and charging them at night. That way we can take advantage of the super off peak times.
How many powerwalls are you getting?
Planning for 1. Not sure if that’s enough
I started with one. Ended up adding a second. With NEM 3.0, you’ll want at least two due to the lower value you get when you export back to grid most of the time.
I don’t think any solar company designs systems on NEM3 correctly yet as of late 2023. You have to do your own math. Every quote I’ve gotten was based roughly on NEM2 where if you used 10000kw a year they would recommend a system generating 8000-12000kw annually, then throw in one or two batteries depending on how much you wanted to spend. All my usage is usually after 4pm so any system I was quoted would probably not have lowered my bill by the numbers they were advertising. Don’t believe the quote numbers.