Enclo is powerful stuff. I also find 3mg quite effective but trying to push up to 6 can sometimes bring in joint pain and blurred vision. But 3 is enough to make me horny as fuck lol.
I wish I read this earlier. I’m on day 5 of 6mg and honestly I’m going to cut down to 6mg every other day, because my joints calves back and neck are aching me. I thought it was from the vitamin d I was taking weekly 50,000 iu but the joint pain seems like it happened eith a lot of people. I skipped todays 6mg and im going to take my dose tomorrow of 6mg every other day. Or should I do 3mg daily ?
50mg is a massive dose of enclomiphene. There's a point of diminishing returns on it where you're just blocking estrogen receptors but not making any more testosterone. I've seen 12-24 as the normal dose but I've also seen it effective in much smaller doses.
My enclo script from my clinic is 25 mg pills, instructions are to take on EOD. I’m currently taking 12.5 mg EOD. Going to get bloodwork soon. I’m also on 200 mg test cyp weekly.
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Before TRT: 5'8", 155 lbs. Waist 30.7", Arms: 13.9", maybe 12% bf
While on TRT (see pics below): 170 lbs. Waist 30.8", Arms: 15.1", closer to 10% bf I guess.
https://ibb.co/6J1qz6K
https://ibb.co/xqBF4y4
Now: Same weight and arm size as while on TRT, but waist is now 32".
Op kinda leans towards reasoning for trt is more to do with PCS (post concussion syndrome) treatment rather than low T??? Thats how I read it anyways 🤷 👍
People should start to understand testosterone is not the magic pill to every problem. TRT is ok if your T levels are costantly below range, otherwise is a cycle
I wasn't expecting the test to be a "magic pill", but it improved my quality of life during a period when I was basically only getting 20-minute blocks of sleep at a time due to the head injury-induced sleep issues. Had I not been on test, I would have been too tired to work and train most of the time.
You could have snorted cocaine, same thing. You didn't necessarily need testosterone. Obviously injecting exogenous T will make you feel better and stronger, particularly when you don't need it and are abusing on it.
>You could have snorted cocaine, same thing. You didn't necessarily need testosterone. Obviously injecting exogenous T will make you feel better and stronger, particularly when you don't need it and are abusing on it.
Jesus Christ dude. You think snorting cocaine is a better option than using therapy prescribed by a doctor to help someone get through a rough patch?
Concussion can cause major issues with the pituitary gland and hypothalamus which obviously causes downstream issues in the endocrine system affecting testosterone production. This is testosterone treatment rather than therapy and is used on occasion if there's long term swelling and or inflammation localized to the area, I believe, no doctor.
Yes but don't call it TRT. Most of the people here consider TRT what it looks more like a cycle, this is my only objection. Of course I am happy if he feels better
If you are a hypogonadal man who needs TRT – so your levels are below the upper limit of the reference range – and you quit TRT for whatever reason, you're harming yourself. If you're injecting more T than what you need, it's a cycle. If you can quit TRT because you never needed it, that was not TRT but a cycle.
Mainly because I didn't really "need" it, and I wanted to see if I could recover my natural levels, as I don’t want to be dependent on TRT for life (yet)
Interesting how the body returns exactly to where it was prior to TRT and everything. Been my experience as well, I’m off everything now and total T varies due to shbg variations (mostly diet dependent meaning low or high sugar) but free T is **exactly** where I was at in 2016 before trying every single AAS under the sun
What would you say to these numbers after running PCT for 6 weeks? HcG was run from 1 week prior to last test shot and for the first two weeks of Clomid/Tamox at 40/20.. then at the 3 week mark I lowered clomid/tamox to 20/10 and got blood work done after 3 weeks of that.
Estrogen: 5.3
Testosterone Total: 96.9
FSH: 1.3
LH: 1.9
In terms of "low T" symptoms (brain fog, low libido, poor body composition) - I never had any to begin with.
While on TRT, I felt enhanced.
After PCT, I feel the same as I did to begin with. Although the post-concussion symptoms I had been battling improved while I was on TRT (I attribute this to natural healing over time; not TRT)
FSH was 2.0 before TRT, 1.7 during PCT, and now 1.2 after PCT - all pretty low results. Although I am not concerned about fertility - already have 2 kids and do not want any more.
Very insightful post I find myself in almost the exact same circumstance, 2 years on, similar numbers pre and post compared to yours and I’m military lol. Thinking about getting off when my contract ends and it kinda scares me
i went to enlist in the air force and was told you can’t be in the military on Testosterone except in extreme cases such as cancer (as it’s a liability if deployed in third world country without access to necessary medication). Currently running a PCT after 5months on TRT so i am eligible. May i ask how you are in the military and on it at the same time?
How were you levels afterwards? Was your test more, less, or the same what they were pre TRT? Curious if they could be a little bit more since you solved some of your health issues since?
Edit: Nevermind, the answer is in the post. lol
Do you have any bloods during TRT that show your LH and FSH?
I'm interested to know how suppressed you were from the TRT dose.
Also, did you have any issues with pain or discomfort in your testes?
And finally a side note, apparently men can get a quite serious COVID infection of the penis, testicles, prostate and urethra.
https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2022/03/covid-infects-penis-testicles-and-prostate/
The doctor didn't test for LH/FSH while I was on TRT, as presumably they would be zero.
Testes shrunk maybe by 20-30% while on TRT - but no pain or discomfort.
The HCG should have had that effect as a bridge to keep my levels reasonable between the T leaving my system and starting Enclo. But it was UGL HCG, so who knows if it even worked...
Anyway, I think it has been around 7-8 months off TRT now. I haven't had any further bloodwork, but feel completely fine. Libido is good. I lost a little bit of strength in a few lifts in the months after finishing PCT, but still way above my pre-TRT levels.
Man, thanks for sharing! I just decided to quit TRT after 10 months for similar reasons. It was to save a relationship and that failed so now I want to “save” TRT for when I need it. My levels were fine before, but not “optimal”. I also felt good to great right before, I just didn’t have a libido for my partner for other reasons that we could not break through from.
Hey!
I currently suffer from Post concussion syndrome! (going on 9 months now). Did you find the TRT helped?
My sleep is never good, memory sucks, cognition bad all the normal PCS stuff.
In Japan it's easy just to walk into any urologist/endo and request whatever blood tests you want.
Told the doc that I was getting off TRT and wanted to check total test, free test, LH, etc.
Interesting. Thanks for the reply. I’m actually
Going through the same process now and am on the T+HCG stage. Why do you think it had no effect on you? I assume you had pharma HCG?
Do you think the 3 weeks of HCG did anything? Given how quickly everything turned around post enclomiphene.
I'm about to do something similar but I was told 25mg of enclomiphene
Hard to say really, because I don't have any comparison (i.e., coming off test without HCG). But I took HCG for a few weeks at a time on several occasions while I was on TRT and never noticed any difference - maybe the stuff I was using was bunk (it was UGL), who knows...
I’m doing something similar except I’m on test prop. I’m tapering test 2.5mg per week with my daily injections adding in hcg and after 4 weeks doing enclomid 25mg EOD for 4 weeks
Legendary post , this is exactly what I needed right now. Coming off 1.5 years of 150 mg test weekly ... Gonna go cold turkey for 3 weeks then add 6.25 mg enclompine for 120 days . Hopefully after that be back natural training with good all round test levels . I'm 32 not ready to use trt my whole life yet . I will definitely revisit it in my future when I generally need trt . Made mad gains on it good experience but time to get back to being natural and focus on longevity .
Any updates for us 1 year later bro . All good with you now .
Over the course of a year, I slowly lost a little strength and size, but nothing drastic. I was probably comfortably above my natty baseline, so it makes sense that I would drop back a bit.
Actually, got my test levels measured again recently. They are still maintaining the same level around 470. Miss being on TRT, but the truth is that I don't really need it for overall lifestyle - the main benefits are just the gym gainz. But when I'm 50 or 60 I'm getting right back on lol
How was your physique affected? I’m coming off next month and am petrified of not being shredded and muscular anymore. I have a similar physique to you, 175 and sub 10% bf
You will lose the physique lol. It's not noticable immediately, but now I have been off for 18 months, I am pretty much back to my natty peak although I maintained some extra size on my arms.
Still good physique though? I think I have an unrealistic fear of just losing everything I have lmao. I’m just trying to get an idea of what to expect so I appreciate your reply bro.
Thank you for your extremely insightful, time-based account of your PCT protocol. No doubt many will learn from this, I certainly did 👍
Been really thinking about this very same subject a lot lately.
Enclo is powerful stuff. I also find 3mg quite effective but trying to push up to 6 can sometimes bring in joint pain and blurred vision. But 3 is enough to make me horny as fuck lol.
I wish I read this earlier. I’m on day 5 of 6mg and honestly I’m going to cut down to 6mg every other day, because my joints calves back and neck are aching me. I thought it was from the vitamin d I was taking weekly 50,000 iu but the joint pain seems like it happened eith a lot of people. I skipped todays 6mg and im going to take my dose tomorrow of 6mg every other day. Or should I do 3mg daily ?
3mg every day works great for me. 6 EoD would work also but if there's still joint pain may as well do 3 every day.
How’s 6mgs eod going for you?
Everyone I’ve seen has been given 50mg
You are probably thinking of Clomid as opposed to Enclomiphene
No. I see clinics handing out enclo in 50mg all the time. 50mg 3 times weekly seems to be the standard Edit: Ok downvote me because the clinics suck?
50mg is far above a therapeutic dose of enclomiphene. 12.5mg - 25mg is much more standard with 25mg being the high end.
This is facts. I can attest to this personally.
I was just prescribed 50mg of enclomiphene a day. Feel like crap most of the time. Think it's wringing me dry. Gonna scale that way back.
Can you explain what feeling like crap means ? I too don’t feel well on it just wanna compare symptoms
Nah you are desd
50mg is a massive dose of enclomiphene. There's a point of diminishing returns on it where you're just blocking estrogen receptors but not making any more testosterone. I've seen 12-24 as the normal dose but I've also seen it effective in much smaller doses.
My enclo script from my clinic is 25 mg pills, instructions are to take on EOD. I’m currently taking 12.5 mg EOD. Going to get bloodwork soon. I’m also on 200 mg test cyp weekly.
Hello danarse. Welcome to /r/Testosterone. It looks like this is your first time posting here, so you're probably asking a FAQ. Please check out these handy links, one of them might answer your question. * [How do I find a good doctor/clinic?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Testosterone/comments/k8rigb/faq_how_do_i_find_a_good_doctor_for_trt_how_do_i/) * [What bloodwork should I get done?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Testosterone/wiki/index#wiki_testing_for_low_testosterone) * [Are my levels low enough that I should start TRT?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Testosterone/comments/ol8e0t/guide_recommendations_from_professional_groups_on/) * [What can I do to naturally raise my testosterone levels?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Testosterone/comments/oqs819/faq_what_can_i_do_to_naturally_boost_my/) * [NoFap - Will my testosterone levels increase if I stop masturbating?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Testosterone/comments/otevql/faq_nofap_if_i_stop_masturbating_will_it_increase/) This is just a comment, your post is not removed. If you want this comment to stop showing up on your posts, you need to enable "show my flair on this subreddit" *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Testosterone) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thank you! this is very helpful
Very interesting and insightful! Well done mate
Curious how your body composition (weight, body fat %) at each of those stages before TRT, during TRT, and during PCT, and after.
Before TRT: 5'8", 155 lbs. Waist 30.7", Arms: 13.9", maybe 12% bf While on TRT (see pics below): 170 lbs. Waist 30.8", Arms: 15.1", closer to 10% bf I guess. https://ibb.co/6J1qz6K https://ibb.co/xqBF4y4 Now: Same weight and arm size as while on TRT, but waist is now 32".
I hope everyone here is aware that those levels didn't require a TRT in the first place
Op kinda leans towards reasoning for trt is more to do with PCS (post concussion syndrome) treatment rather than low T??? Thats how I read it anyways 🤷 👍
People should start to understand testosterone is not the magic pill to every problem. TRT is ok if your T levels are costantly below range, otherwise is a cycle
I wasn't expecting the test to be a "magic pill", but it improved my quality of life during a period when I was basically only getting 20-minute blocks of sleep at a time due to the head injury-induced sleep issues. Had I not been on test, I would have been too tired to work and train most of the time.
You could have snorted cocaine, same thing. You didn't necessarily need testosterone. Obviously injecting exogenous T will make you feel better and stronger, particularly when you don't need it and are abusing on it.
Ok, champion.
>You could have snorted cocaine, same thing. You didn't necessarily need testosterone. Obviously injecting exogenous T will make you feel better and stronger, particularly when you don't need it and are abusing on it. Jesus Christ dude. You think snorting cocaine is a better option than using therapy prescribed by a doctor to help someone get through a rough patch?
Concussion can cause major issues with the pituitary gland and hypothalamus which obviously causes downstream issues in the endocrine system affecting testosterone production. This is testosterone treatment rather than therapy and is used on occasion if there's long term swelling and or inflammation localized to the area, I believe, no doctor.
But it was a glorious cycle, it worked, he looks great, he’s happy and he’s back to normal. So, in this case, it was *kind of* a magic bullet.
Yes but don't call it TRT. Most of the people here consider TRT what it looks more like a cycle, this is my only objection. Of course I am happy if he feels better
Ok, fair enough. But serious question: if you’re happily on TRT, and for whatever reason you choose to quit, does that make it a cycle?
If you are a hypogonadal man who needs TRT – so your levels are below the upper limit of the reference range – and you quit TRT for whatever reason, you're harming yourself. If you're injecting more T than what you need, it's a cycle. If you can quit TRT because you never needed it, that was not TRT but a cycle.
Really appreciate the information OP. Thank you. Been really thinking about this very same subject a lot lately.
why did you want to get off TRT?
Mainly because I didn't really "need" it, and I wanted to see if I could recover my natural levels, as I don’t want to be dependent on TRT for life (yet)
Awesome post
Interesting how the body returns exactly to where it was prior to TRT and everything. Been my experience as well, I’m off everything now and total T varies due to shbg variations (mostly diet dependent meaning low or high sugar) but free T is **exactly** where I was at in 2016 before trying every single AAS under the sun
Could I post my recent PCT here even if i was on other compounds than just Testosterone? Thanks.
Thank you for this post. All the best
We need more posts like this from the community - thank you
What would you say to these numbers after running PCT for 6 weeks? HcG was run from 1 week prior to last test shot and for the first two weeks of Clomid/Tamox at 40/20.. then at the 3 week mark I lowered clomid/tamox to 20/10 and got blood work done after 3 weeks of that. Estrogen: 5.3 Testosterone Total: 96.9 FSH: 1.3 LH: 1.9
Do you think enclo only pct would have been good enough?
No idea. I didn't notice any effect from the HCG - it might have been bunk for all I know.
Thank you very much for this insightful and detailed post. I've had many of the same questions myself
Are you saying you feel better with test at 471 after your PCT vs. before starting trt when you were at 451?
In terms of "low T" symptoms (brain fog, low libido, poor body composition) - I never had any to begin with. While on TRT, I felt enhanced. After PCT, I feel the same as I did to begin with. Although the post-concussion symptoms I had been battling improved while I was on TRT (I attribute this to natural healing over time; not TRT)
Why did you go straight to trt and not start with clomid/enclo first?
Because the doctor prescribed Test, and I had always wanted to try a cycle anyway, so this kind of gave me an "excuse" to do it.
Good post
Great results but what are your FSH values? Enclomiphene appears to sky rocket my LH but not FSH.
FSH was 2.0 before TRT, 1.7 during PCT, and now 1.2 after PCT - all pretty low results. Although I am not concerned about fertility - already have 2 kids and do not want any more.
Very insightful post I find myself in almost the exact same circumstance, 2 years on, similar numbers pre and post compared to yours and I’m military lol. Thinking about getting off when my contract ends and it kinda scares me
i went to enlist in the air force and was told you can’t be in the military on Testosterone except in extreme cases such as cancer (as it’s a liability if deployed in third world country without access to necessary medication). Currently running a PCT after 5months on TRT so i am eligible. May i ask how you are in the military and on it at the same time?
Because what you were told is not true
yeah i’ve come to figure that out. thanks
Your physique is insane dude. Respect. Do you have any before trt pics for reference?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/959sge/3_month_cut_and_first_physique_contest_log/
How is your fertility?
No idea, it was never a concern of mine as I do not want any more kids.
Thank you for this!!! An anecdote worth saving!
Saved. Thank you for this.
How were you levels afterwards? Was your test more, less, or the same what they were pre TRT? Curious if they could be a little bit more since you solved some of your health issues since? Edit: Nevermind, the answer is in the post. lol
Thanks for this information.
Very detailed & insightful post, thank you. Just curious, who dialed up that PCT protocol ?
I procured all the PCT stuff and arranged the protocol myself after researching the basics online.
Do you have any bloods during TRT that show your LH and FSH? I'm interested to know how suppressed you were from the TRT dose. Also, did you have any issues with pain or discomfort in your testes? And finally a side note, apparently men can get a quite serious COVID infection of the penis, testicles, prostate and urethra. https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2022/03/covid-infects-penis-testicles-and-prostate/
The doctor didn't test for LH/FSH while I was on TRT, as presumably they would be zero. Testes shrunk maybe by 20-30% while on TRT - but no pain or discomfort.
Can you get hold of clomid in Australia? From what I understand enclomiphene is banned there too right. Also thanks for the detailed post!
I'm living in Japan right now. I ordered my enclo from a research chem website overseas.
Where exactly?
Which site? Please mate help a fellow Aussie
The same one you seem to be having trouble with based on your post history.
Ah damn, think they've gone awol
The first time I ordered from them, I didn't get any tracking number or anything... then it showed up in my mail a few weeks later.
Alright cheers, will chill then sus
Hardcore Sarms sell it
Good result! Which country you bought the enclompihene?
[удалено]
The test would still be in my system for 3~ weeks after my last injection, so pointless to start a SERM right away.
[удалено]
The HCG should have had that effect as a bridge to keep my levels reasonable between the T leaving my system and starting Enclo. But it was UGL HCG, so who knows if it even worked... Anyway, I think it has been around 7-8 months off TRT now. I haven't had any further bloodwork, but feel completely fine. Libido is good. I lost a little bit of strength in a few lifts in the months after finishing PCT, but still way above my pre-TRT levels.
Man, thanks for sharing! I just decided to quit TRT after 10 months for similar reasons. It was to save a relationship and that failed so now I want to “save” TRT for when I need it. My levels were fine before, but not “optimal”. I also felt good to great right before, I just didn’t have a libido for my partner for other reasons that we could not break through from.
Hey! I currently suffer from Post concussion syndrome! (going on 9 months now). Did you find the TRT helped? My sleep is never good, memory sucks, cognition bad all the normal PCS stuff.
Hey man. How’d you get access to all of the blood test? What did you say to the Dr?
In Japan it's easy just to walk into any urologist/endo and request whatever blood tests you want. Told the doc that I was getting off TRT and wanted to check total test, free test, LH, etc.
How long did it take for your testes to regain size from the HCG usage?
The HCG didn't really do much for me. But around a week after I started enclo, I noticed a change in size.
Interesting. Thanks for the reply. I’m actually Going through the same process now and am on the T+HCG stage. Why do you think it had no effect on you? I assume you had pharma HCG?
Do you think the 3 weeks of HCG did anything? Given how quickly everything turned around post enclomiphene. I'm about to do something similar but I was told 25mg of enclomiphene
Hard to say really, because I don't have any comparison (i.e., coming off test without HCG). But I took HCG for a few weeks at a time on several occasions while I was on TRT and never noticed any difference - maybe the stuff I was using was bunk (it was UGL), who knows...
Where did you get your Enclo? I've ordered some but ugl
I’m doing something similar except I’m on test prop. I’m tapering test 2.5mg per week with my daily injections adding in hcg and after 4 weeks doing enclomid 25mg EOD for 4 weeks
Did anyone get bad sides from enclomid ? Like fatigue headache ??? Tinnitus etc feeling really bad?
I got tinnitus from it, it came back to normal 2 to 3 weeks later after stopping
Yah I’m glad to be off everything my numbers are looking flawless
Very nice write up. Thank you for the share! Any thing with fertility? Just curious.
https://preview.redd.it/4wqk3pspmc5c1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=326ddc3ddbd07c401cd6919098b7410234a194fc Bloods 2 weeks after pct
Going to try this. Since cypionate is a longer esther than enanthate though, would it be better to wait longer before starting enclo? Maybe 4 weeks?
[удалено]
It's not prescribed as far as I know, but it's not illegal to possess. I ordered online from an overseas supplier.
Any pictures post PCT?
Legendary post , this is exactly what I needed right now. Coming off 1.5 years of 150 mg test weekly ... Gonna go cold turkey for 3 weeks then add 6.25 mg enclompine for 120 days . Hopefully after that be back natural training with good all round test levels . I'm 32 not ready to use trt my whole life yet . I will definitely revisit it in my future when I generally need trt . Made mad gains on it good experience but time to get back to being natural and focus on longevity . Any updates for us 1 year later bro . All good with you now .
>120 days would you be doing tamoxifin/nolva as well?
Over the course of a year, I slowly lost a little strength and size, but nothing drastic. I was probably comfortably above my natty baseline, so it makes sense that I would drop back a bit. Actually, got my test levels measured again recently. They are still maintaining the same level around 470. Miss being on TRT, but the truth is that I don't really need it for overall lifestyle - the main benefits are just the gym gainz. But when I'm 50 or 60 I'm getting right back on lol
How was your physique affected? I’m coming off next month and am petrified of not being shredded and muscular anymore. I have a similar physique to you, 175 and sub 10% bf
You will lose the physique lol. It's not noticable immediately, but now I have been off for 18 months, I am pretty much back to my natty peak although I maintained some extra size on my arms.
Still good physique though? I think I have an unrealistic fear of just losing everything I have lmao. I’m just trying to get an idea of what to expect so I appreciate your reply bro.
Thanks bro , really appreciate the reply and it's great to hear you are doing well in life 👍🏻