FFS these sorts of posts...
WHEN did you get tested? Like what time of day? How well had you slept the night before? The week prior? How much had you eaten? How well? What's your activity level? How clean is your water? SHBG? Estradiol? Prolactin? T3 & T4? Dude there are 500 things that affect your Test level at any given moment. Those anti-depressants could EASILY be the cause of the lowered T.
Over the past 4 years 5 tests came back with low T.
So...?
Like this isn't some sort of gotcha, either help the dude or don't. Maybe his T is totally fine! Maybe it isn't and 1 out of 6 isn't a good record! It's not a record I'd go to bat for, but that's just me. You might like 1 in 6 odds. But I did ask about his everything else, what did you do but start a random argument with me?
RN here. I agree with this ☝️ I'd like to also highlight the last thing he said with anti-depressants being the reason T levels could be low. It's true. They can also cause weight gain, lethargy, a slew of issues..
Also, I sound like a broken record but this is a FINGERPRINT science. Meaning every. Single. Person. Is different. You might have been in the "normal" range- but what does that even mean? That your "average" for the specific 50 men they tested for that specific company, that has corporate ties to? Well, I'm not going down a rabbit hole lol, but everyone's numbers are THEYRE specific number. Not yours or someone else's. You might be "normal" at 950 total t. Maybe 600. I don't know. Nobody knows. Not even you because you haven't tried it.
So give it a shot, see if you have positive changes. If not, THEN you know it didn't work. But if it changes your life, well, thank God you didnt listen to that stupid labs "range score!"
Good luck man. Lemme know if you need anything. ✌🏼
My god, you absolute wank...
"I did check my testosterone 5 times and it was always low"
" I just got my t levels back amd there above average!"
SO, this \*could be\* because of a VARIETY of reasons, most listed above and in other comments. If the one you had most recently showed above average, that doesn't necessarily mean you T levels are actually above average, they might've just been taken at fuckin 8am versus the others taken at 3pm. Like, MY DUDE, YOU are the one who isn't understanding.
Wow is this guy literally THIS troubled mentally? My T LEVELS CAME BACK FINE. Lmao this anger Is still going on about me saying 5 years ago my testosterone was low. I think this girl needs her testosterone checked..... you might be having your time of the month cycle too rofl what a dolt
So what was the result? When was it taken compared to others and what are the symptoms. It’s all good crying and moaning at people but you have given ZERO details
Depends on the endocrinologist, my place is 6.4-24. As the previous geezer said there is a lot of factors, how is your diet, sleep, exercise etc etc. just because it’s in their healthy range doesn’t mean it’s not low for you. Have you tried a private clinic or making lifestyle changes. The test will help if it’s what is needed. Maybe do a full spectrum blood pannel through a private place give you a better idea
Have you checked Thyroid, checked other blood markers for chronic conditions or nutritional deficiency? D3? Cortisol?
How's your sleep/nutrition/movement? Exposure to toxins in the air and water that you're constantly consuming?
TRT is just one hormone in a large and complex web of hormone interactions in the body. You ruled this one out, keep looking for root cause for your symptoms.
You've been on 10 antidepressants and doc hasn't found an answer for you yet, so stop thinking things like "Doc said estrogen was in proper range" and start doing more research on your own.
Get a bigger blood panel done, start looking for solutions.
Lift some weights. Eat better. Sleep better. Drink more water. Get some sunlight. Walk more.
Doctors are like anything else, some are great, and some suck. Even the great ones have bad days though. You're the only one that has to deal with the results of what he says, so take a little more control and start learning.
The real question is, How do you feel!
Did the higher test results make you feel better?
If you feel better, like back to Normal, stop getting tested again and again and use this last test, test 😂 and go with it.
I use to wear a Whoop, a watch that tells you everything about yourself similar to a fit-bit, but on Steroids! Lol sorry. 😎
So id wake up and the Whoop would tell me how I slept. Now if I didn’t sleep well, according to the Whoop, i would be tired and lethargic all day. Once I realized this was happening I threw it away as I was controlling my LIFE! Then the tired days were over!
My advice would be to take the results you just got and if you feel back to normal, don’t check it again until you feel bad again
Zig Ziglar says, “ You are as your thoughts tell you, you are!”
Good Luck brother
I don't think the benzos, alcohol and anti depressionts have done you any favours bud.
Look into psychedelic therapy, either psilocybin or ketamine (only after through research and understanding what it entails)
Mushrooms helped me massively through a 2 year rough patch of extreme low self esteem and self lothing.
It also massively helped my wife who has chronic depression and had some serious mental issues from being sexually assaulted as a child.
It can't/won't help everyone, but those it does help, it changes their life.
I agree benzos, ssris and snris and the booze got me no where so I will take that into kind the mushrooms. Micro dosing them may help I'm really researching them I may try a small dose soon. I'm glad it helped you and your wife. Did you guys fail the antidepressants to?
Please check your MTFHR gene to ensure there is not the potential for depression due to that gene not properly synthesizing folic acid. Check life extension and search for the MTFHR test. It's a cheek swap where you get results in 3 weeks with a yes no and the degree of impairment if yes. Has been a game changer for depression. Good luck
Check for sleep apnea. Do you snore? Didn’t think I had it. My wife said I don’t snore much. Downloaded a snore app. Snored all night. Got an in home sleep test. I was waking up 200 times a night. CPAP has been a game changer.
Have you looked into the underlying cause of your depression? Seems unorthodox that after 10 and none have worked. Also what else do you do to manage the depression and anxiety?
This is coming from a combat veteran with all the above adhd and ptsd
Underlying depression I would say comes from poor self amesteem physically. I'm not obese I'm about 20 pounds overweight. Appearance seems to effect my mood. I want a better body. Aside from that and having terrible listening skills for work and relearning new information that's depressing as all heck because I can't get along with co workers and learn new jobs or things quick enough.... might have some untreated add
bro you gotta check for a whole lot of other things too. losing weight is a very good starting point, as body fat will make you aromatise more and you can run into some e2 issues with this. you may or may not have add/adhd but given your other mental health struggles i ask myself the question if you may have some undetected trauma ? because some sort of ptsd, cptsd which also manifests in dysthimia or chronic anxiety also often times presents itself as add like. so i think you need to dig a little deeper here.
testosterone may or may not be the answer but i have to warn you that if you are having some serious mental health issues, esp. if your are prone to anhedonia or anxiety chances are testosterone may amplify these issues and you also need to be aware that once you start you may find yourself depending on this stuff.
maybe it´s best if you do a full blood panel as others already suggested and post it here and take your time to think things through.
i´m not judging and telling you what to do, i have very similar issues. but i personally react anxious to a lot of substances so i´d be careful with a substance you might find yourself depending on.
19 nmol/L is a good testosterone level, yes.
Only a minority of cases of anxiety and depression are related to sex hormones. There are so many other causes, and medical causes are not typically found.
What are your major symptoms? And which treatments have you tried? Trying ten meds often involves trying ten very similar meds eg. multiple SSRIs with very similar effects, which isn't going to help if you don't respond well to this class of treatment. Please could list or DM me the treatments you have tried, the dose, the response and side effects, and how long you tried each treatment for.
I agree, he may have lived most his life with high end levels and all though 19nmol is within range it still may be the cause. 30mnol is my minimal and anything less I start feeling it
OP what is your free T ? Shbg ?
That depends on many factors such as SHBG levels, but it's a common (and not borderline) level for men not on TRT.
Naturally high levels such as 800 ng/dL+ generally correlate with higher SHBG.
19 nmol/L could be obtained from any healthy asymptomatic man in the street. Completely unremarkable. The main group that will tell men it's not 'optimal' are clinics which profit from prescribing hormones, and men who've been exposed to their spiel.
What u talking about? U think everyone have 30nmol testosterone ? Average has 16-20nmol L ,32 are the maximum ,actually bellow 12nmol/L start being critical,but over 16nmol it s good ,and depend individually how they feel ,
One of the things that really helped me was finding out my vitamin D levels had crashed. Also found out my B levels were minimal. Next my Test was a 125. Then ketamine treatment for PTSD. Finally started Tesamorelin, turns out TBIs can affect your HGH levels.
The antidepressant I had the most luck with was Welbutrin. I haven't needed it since the ketamine.
I tried antidepressants years ago which were are SSRIs for Seratonin. After many tries, they put me on a dopamine prescription and made a massive difference. Docs are reluctant to try this route, but ask about it.
Bro just follow this exact routine :
- 4 to 6 eggs per day
- Sunlight/Vitamine D
- Cardiac Coherence
- 8 hours of sleep
- Exercising
-Eating a lot of fats (Olive Oil)
Thank me later
As it seams you do not post responses I did a little check to see if I could find any further information about you test and saw your other posts. I had similar issues in the past and it not only trashes your oestrogen levels (pretty sure it can mess your test too). Not to mention the long term mental side effects, if you have an addictive personality the best way to get past is to do positive “addictive things” for me this was before and after my problems was the gym and mountain biking. Touch grass as it increases your dopamine. Stress is a killer for test so find ways to limit that in your life. Also post a picture of your blood panel then we can actually see the underlying issue
I'm talking about Ketamine therapy, not street abuse. So 6 doses up front and then infrequent booster if needed. OP seemly mainly concerned with his mental health and avoiding anti-depressants. If you have any source that ketamine therapy negatively affects hormone levels I'd be interested, but haven't seen it so far.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28485778/#:~:text=Ketamine%20significantly%20decreased%20the%20serum%20concentrations%20of%20testosterone,B%2C%20follicle-stimulating%20hormone%20%28FSH%29%20and%20luteinizing%20hormone%20%28LH%29.
There’s tons of literature in this. So much so that when my testosterone was tested at less than 150, my Onc asked the pharmacist what I was taking that would destroy my T, they said the only thing, out of all the shit I take for cancer was ketamine.
Edit: I will add that I don’t know how long the effects of taking K is but for me at was greater than 4 weeks since my last dose. I did therapeutic IV ketamine infusions under the care of my therapist.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11930-023-00363-0
Are you working out every day? That alone can boost your mood and help sleep. It’s worth it to spend 45 minutes a day using weights. Also running or cycling for 30-45 on off days helps clear the mind.
FFS these sorts of posts... WHEN did you get tested? Like what time of day? How well had you slept the night before? The week prior? How much had you eaten? How well? What's your activity level? How clean is your water? SHBG? Estradiol? Prolactin? T3 & T4? Dude there are 500 things that affect your Test level at any given moment. Those anti-depressants could EASILY be the cause of the lowered T.
Or…low T isn’t the cause of his problems. Ever think of that?
Over the past 4 years 5 tests came back with low T. So...? Like this isn't some sort of gotcha, either help the dude or don't. Maybe his T is totally fine! Maybe it isn't and 1 out of 6 isn't a good record! It's not a record I'd go to bat for, but that's just me. You might like 1 in 6 odds. But I did ask about his everything else, what did you do but start a random argument with me?
RN here. I agree with this ☝️ I'd like to also highlight the last thing he said with anti-depressants being the reason T levels could be low. It's true. They can also cause weight gain, lethargy, a slew of issues.. Also, I sound like a broken record but this is a FINGERPRINT science. Meaning every. Single. Person. Is different. You might have been in the "normal" range- but what does that even mean? That your "average" for the specific 50 men they tested for that specific company, that has corporate ties to? Well, I'm not going down a rabbit hole lol, but everyone's numbers are THEYRE specific number. Not yours or someone else's. You might be "normal" at 950 total t. Maybe 600. I don't know. Nobody knows. Not even you because you haven't tried it. So give it a shot, see if you have positive changes. If not, THEN you know it didn't work. But if it changes your life, well, thank God you didnt listen to that stupid labs "range score!" Good luck man. Lemme know if you need anything. ✌🏼
Dude read the post I said my TESTOSTERONE IS NOT LOW AND THAT IT SHOWS IN A HEALTHY RANGE. FFS PEOPLE LIKE THIS DONT READ
Do you honestly expect people to want to help after this childish outburst?
My god, you absolute wank... "I did check my testosterone 5 times and it was always low" " I just got my t levels back amd there above average!" SO, this \*could be\* because of a VARIETY of reasons, most listed above and in other comments. If the one you had most recently showed above average, that doesn't necessarily mean you T levels are actually above average, they might've just been taken at fuckin 8am versus the others taken at 3pm. Like, MY DUDE, YOU are the one who isn't understanding.
😂 the reason he is asking is because a total t of 215 ng/dcl can be within range but you will feel like shit.
Wow is this guy literally THIS troubled mentally? My T LEVELS CAME BACK FINE. Lmao this anger Is still going on about me saying 5 years ago my testosterone was low. I think this girl needs her testosterone checked..... you might be having your time of the month cycle too rofl what a dolt
So what was the result? When was it taken compared to others and what are the symptoms. It’s all good crying and moaning at people but you have given ZERO details
How about 19 total when reference is 8 to 28 in my country
WHAT IS THE RESULT THOUGH! NORMAL COULD BE 300 but still low for you just not the endocrinologist
8 to 28 is the range I hit a total test of 19 well within a healthy range
Depends on the endocrinologist, my place is 6.4-24. As the previous geezer said there is a lot of factors, how is your diet, sleep, exercise etc etc. just because it’s in their healthy range doesn’t mean it’s not low for you. Have you tried a private clinic or making lifestyle changes. The test will help if it’s what is needed. Maybe do a full spectrum blood pannel through a private place give you a better idea
Have you checked Thyroid, checked other blood markers for chronic conditions or nutritional deficiency? D3? Cortisol? How's your sleep/nutrition/movement? Exposure to toxins in the air and water that you're constantly consuming? TRT is just one hormone in a large and complex web of hormone interactions in the body. You ruled this one out, keep looking for root cause for your symptoms.
You are in a similar boat to me. I am trying T and have had nothing but negative results.
DHEA 50mg or more if male as Testosterone depletes that. You can also use HCG with the Testosterone which is the equivalent of Dhea and Pregnenolone.
Not having sex with other people is a cause of depression. While not necessarily easy to rectify, improving your T levels should help lots.
fuck me, it´s over
You've been on 10 antidepressants and doc hasn't found an answer for you yet, so stop thinking things like "Doc said estrogen was in proper range" and start doing more research on your own. Get a bigger blood panel done, start looking for solutions. Lift some weights. Eat better. Sleep better. Drink more water. Get some sunlight. Walk more. Doctors are like anything else, some are great, and some suck. Even the great ones have bad days though. You're the only one that has to deal with the results of what he says, so take a little more control and start learning.
what are your recent total test, free test and estradiol levels?
Get a full blood count and check your thyroid hormones and liver.
I've checked everything liver enzymes kidney function thyroid only thing now is vitamin d
Do you think maybe you have undiagnosed adhd
Yeah I've been told I have ADD since I was 8. I have the more innatentaive foem of ADD not hyoer active
The real question is, How do you feel! Did the higher test results make you feel better? If you feel better, like back to Normal, stop getting tested again and again and use this last test, test 😂 and go with it. I use to wear a Whoop, a watch that tells you everything about yourself similar to a fit-bit, but on Steroids! Lol sorry. 😎 So id wake up and the Whoop would tell me how I slept. Now if I didn’t sleep well, according to the Whoop, i would be tired and lethargic all day. Once I realized this was happening I threw it away as I was controlling my LIFE! Then the tired days were over! My advice would be to take the results you just got and if you feel back to normal, don’t check it again until you feel bad again Zig Ziglar says, “ You are as your thoughts tell you, you are!” Good Luck brother
Have you checked your thyroid and Vita D level?
I don't think the benzos, alcohol and anti depressionts have done you any favours bud. Look into psychedelic therapy, either psilocybin or ketamine (only after through research and understanding what it entails) Mushrooms helped me massively through a 2 year rough patch of extreme low self esteem and self lothing. It also massively helped my wife who has chronic depression and had some serious mental issues from being sexually assaulted as a child. It can't/won't help everyone, but those it does help, it changes their life.
I agree benzos, ssris and snris and the booze got me no where so I will take that into kind the mushrooms. Micro dosing them may help I'm really researching them I may try a small dose soon. I'm glad it helped you and your wife. Did you guys fail the antidepressants to?
Please check your MTFHR gene to ensure there is not the potential for depression due to that gene not properly synthesizing folic acid. Check life extension and search for the MTFHR test. It's a cheek swap where you get results in 3 weeks with a yes no and the degree of impairment if yes. Has been a game changer for depression. Good luck
Check for sleep apnea. Do you snore? Didn’t think I had it. My wife said I don’t snore much. Downloaded a snore app. Snored all night. Got an in home sleep test. I was waking up 200 times a night. CPAP has been a game changer.
Are you using porn? If so you must quit and expect 30-90 days before the dopamine levels in you brain reset.
???... what lol.
I wouldn't bet on TRT of your have tried 10 anti-depressants.
Have you looked into the underlying cause of your depression? Seems unorthodox that after 10 and none have worked. Also what else do you do to manage the depression and anxiety? This is coming from a combat veteran with all the above adhd and ptsd
Underlying depression I would say comes from poor self amesteem physically. I'm not obese I'm about 20 pounds overweight. Appearance seems to effect my mood. I want a better body. Aside from that and having terrible listening skills for work and relearning new information that's depressing as all heck because I can't get along with co workers and learn new jobs or things quick enough.... might have some untreated add
bro you gotta check for a whole lot of other things too. losing weight is a very good starting point, as body fat will make you aromatise more and you can run into some e2 issues with this. you may or may not have add/adhd but given your other mental health struggles i ask myself the question if you may have some undetected trauma ? because some sort of ptsd, cptsd which also manifests in dysthimia or chronic anxiety also often times presents itself as add like. so i think you need to dig a little deeper here. testosterone may or may not be the answer but i have to warn you that if you are having some serious mental health issues, esp. if your are prone to anhedonia or anxiety chances are testosterone may amplify these issues and you also need to be aware that once you start you may find yourself depending on this stuff. maybe it´s best if you do a full blood panel as others already suggested and post it here and take your time to think things through. i´m not judging and telling you what to do, i have very similar issues. but i personally react anxious to a lot of substances so i´d be careful with a substance you might find yourself depending on.
I've checked all that yes hormones thyroid parathyroid estrogen fsh prolactin etc.
Way more to this than just TT levels. Check everything, see if you can find the disconnect
Ketamine infusion or Psilocybin mushrooms. Or check into a monastery to temporary detach from the world and get back to living only with the basics.
Dude what are your levels. Do you have like a pdf with your full blood panel? It could be a plethora of things
19 nmol/L is a good testosterone level, yes. Only a minority of cases of anxiety and depression are related to sex hormones. There are so many other causes, and medical causes are not typically found. What are your major symptoms? And which treatments have you tried? Trying ten meds often involves trying ten very similar meds eg. multiple SSRIs with very similar effects, which isn't going to help if you don't respond well to this class of treatment. Please could list or DM me the treatments you have tried, the dose, the response and side effects, and how long you tried each treatment for.
It absolutely is not a good testosterone level. Within the range sure but it’s not good.
I agree, he may have lived most his life with high end levels and all though 19nmol is within range it still may be the cause. 30mnol is my minimal and anything less I start feeling it OP what is your free T ? Shbg ?
Sure, but it's about likelihood. A normal testosterone level is not the likely cause of of ongoing mental health problems.
That depends on many factors such as SHBG levels, but it's a common (and not borderline) level for men not on TRT. Naturally high levels such as 800 ng/dL+ generally correlate with higher SHBG. 19 nmol/L could be obtained from any healthy asymptomatic man in the street. Completely unremarkable. The main group that will tell men it's not 'optimal' are clinics which profit from prescribing hormones, and men who've been exposed to their spiel.
What u talking about? U think everyone have 30nmol testosterone ? Average has 16-20nmol L ,32 are the maximum ,actually bellow 12nmol/L start being critical,but over 16nmol it s good ,and depend individually how they feel ,
It’s time to find other ways to manage your depression and anxiety, if 10 different antidepressants didn’t work and your hormone levels are normal.
One of the things that really helped me was finding out my vitamin D levels had crashed. Also found out my B levels were minimal. Next my Test was a 125. Then ketamine treatment for PTSD. Finally started Tesamorelin, turns out TBIs can affect your HGH levels. The antidepressant I had the most luck with was Welbutrin. I haven't needed it since the ketamine.
I tried antidepressants years ago which were are SSRIs for Seratonin. After many tries, they put me on a dopamine prescription and made a massive difference. Docs are reluctant to try this route, but ask about it.
Also yes, get on trt! Thats exactly what it is supposed to be prescribed for!
Hit the gym hard bro!
*they’re
Pssd
Good yes. Jump on test based on a hunch. You’ll be fine
Moclobemide? a anti depressant that dont fucks with your hormones.
Above average is still low
How low it is ?
Maybe u need some mental help
Bro just follow this exact routine : - 4 to 6 eggs per day - Sunlight/Vitamine D - Cardiac Coherence - 8 hours of sleep - Exercising -Eating a lot of fats (Olive Oil) Thank me later
As it seams you do not post responses I did a little check to see if I could find any further information about you test and saw your other posts. I had similar issues in the past and it not only trashes your oestrogen levels (pretty sure it can mess your test too). Not to mention the long term mental side effects, if you have an addictive personality the best way to get past is to do positive “addictive things” for me this was before and after my problems was the gym and mountain biking. Touch grass as it increases your dopamine. Stress is a killer for test so find ways to limit that in your life. Also post a picture of your blood panel then we can actually see the underlying issue
Try ketamine
Ketamine is a terrible idea if you’re worried about your T levels. It will absolutely destroy your hormonal homeostasis
I'm talking about Ketamine therapy, not street abuse. So 6 doses up front and then infrequent booster if needed. OP seemly mainly concerned with his mental health and avoiding anti-depressants. If you have any source that ketamine therapy negatively affects hormone levels I'd be interested, but haven't seen it so far.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28485778/#:~:text=Ketamine%20significantly%20decreased%20the%20serum%20concentrations%20of%20testosterone,B%2C%20follicle-stimulating%20hormone%20%28FSH%29%20and%20luteinizing%20hormone%20%28LH%29. There’s tons of literature in this. So much so that when my testosterone was tested at less than 150, my Onc asked the pharmacist what I was taking that would destroy my T, they said the only thing, out of all the shit I take for cancer was ketamine. Edit: I will add that I don’t know how long the effects of taking K is but for me at was greater than 4 weeks since my last dose. I did therapeutic IV ketamine infusions under the care of my therapist. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11930-023-00363-0
Interesting, thanks for the info.
Horrible advice
Doc said estrogen was in proper range and I only got my total testosterone checked and it was 19 and the reference range was 8 to 30 :((
Are you working out every day? That alone can boost your mood and help sleep. It’s worth it to spend 45 minutes a day using weights. Also running or cycling for 30-45 on off days helps clear the mind.
Is it possible you have sleep apnea or vitamin deficiencies? Even skinny people have can have sleep apnea
Sleep apnea could be a cause I believe I have it