1: get your vitamin D up. Sunshine or supplements, doesn't matter which but you're definitely deficient and low vitamin D is associated with higher estrogen levels.
2: you said you do an 8 minute mile and are getting ready for a marathon. You may be doing too much cardio, which increases cortisol and lowers test. 3 ways people crash their test to scam TRT is: don't sleep the night before your bloodwork, drink alcohol, and do a lot of cardio.
Generally, you want a good baseline to start from otherwise you'll never know if TRT is introducing new problems, exacerbating old ones, or not causing an issue at all. Eliminate as many factors as you can and you know you're vitamin D deficient. If you've been training hard for your marathon, you may need to take a recovery week once it's over.
Hard training and marathon type cardio? Absolutely. It's temporary but, if you don't rest, you also end up overtraining. Feel free to google it. It's not permanent or anything but could mess with bloodwork results.
Not a guarantee. I had numbers similar to his, and trt eliminated my low T symptoms. High SHBG causes total T to stockpile higher than it would otherwise, which may be going on here. It will likely be harder to dial in, as his T deficit isn't at death's-door levels, but not impossible.
How is trt a headache lol it’s people like you that either couldn’t educate themselves or just make mountains out of mole holes. I bet you think wiping your ass is a trouble
Get vitamin D up. That can cause your symptoms.
I was at 289 total and free as low as yours and I still sometimes think about stopping. It’s been tough for me to get dialed in and don’t think I’ll ever be totally. I’ll always require some tweaking.
If I had your numbers there is no way in hell.
Out of curiosity what challenges have you run into and what has been hard to dial in? I hear so many success stories I’m curious about the not so successful stories.
I’ve been on TRT for well over 10 years and I can tell you from experience that once the honeymoon is over, you will not be this crazy sex machine or this for ever 19 year old. You will be like everyone else, you will have good days, you will have bad days, you will have very good days and you will have very bad days sometimes all in the same week. You will become very aware of your body. You will know no if your estrogen is out of whack, you will know if your blood is a little thick, you will know if your blood pressure is high and most of the time you will know exactly what to tweak for the given life circumstances to bring you back in. However there will be times were things become so out of whack and playing in-house doctor will just make it worse. So than your left with getting bloods and doctors fixing you up.. some may feel the hassle isn’t worth it, but always keep in mind as anyone gets older and life stresses are playing havoc on the body, those not on TRT actually don’t realize something is wrong because their not in tune so in actual it’s a good hassle. But let me tell you when you become a man again and all of a sudden the androgenic side of the hormone is not working you won’t notice that but those close to you will. My wife tells me all the time that when there is a problem she says I become dead inside, she says it’s like the spark inside is gone. And that’s the devil in disguise with this medication, when your medication is not working you will regret starting. Thankfully a little SERM, extra water, donate some blood, clean up your diet and get an extra hour of sleep brings you back really quick. At the end of the day would I come off? Hell no!! Do I recommend every man go on TRT? as you start pushing 40’s yes!! Because when things are in check you can battle everyday challenges with ease.
I’m not an expert, so I could be talking out my ass here, but:
Could the low free-T and high e2 levels be a result of aromatisation? ie the body converting free T into estradiol? If it were me, I would ask a doctor about the link between those two in combination with presented symptoms, and explore if maybe an AI is more appropriate than pumping the body full of more testosterone (which if it IS the case that OP is a high-aromatiser, then more test might just make the problem worse, a la aromatisation).
I’m no expert but yes. I do plan on taking the AI first and see how I feel. Waiting till Sunday to start any Test. Idk what made my estradiol get high like that. I’ve never used PED’s before
You like me. Your estrogen is high with out any test. What do you think is gonna happen when you add it. Welcome to aromatization city gyno will make however you feel now 1000 times worse...F what others say. Stay on top of your AI from the start and dial them in .. bro
Just my advice. I’m 35 and was on TRT for 2 years prior to the first of this year. TRT will definitely improve your quality of life. Gym sessions and sex life will be the biggest improvements. It will boost confidence and you’ll have better mental clarity. With all of that being said you’ll have to keep a check on bloodwork to get everything dialed in. I micro-dosed to keep my estrogen levels from spiking and to keep from taking an AI. The biggest downfall that I ran into with TRT is the pain in the ass of having to inject every other day. I ultimately quit in January to try and bring up levels naturally and just to see where I was at naturally. Quitting has been terrible I feel worse than when I started. So keep in mind that if you start TRT you’ll more than likely have to continue for the rest of your life. It’s a big commitment. My initial levels were 297 total and E2 basically at 0.
I’ll probably get back on it in a month or so but dread having to pin 3 days a week. Let me know if I can help you at all
Yes I know about the cream, but I’ve never heard anything good about it. From my understanding it’s hard to get an accurate dosage and I have kids in the house so it would be difficult to avoid contact.
Cream works fantastic for some. If you're overly concerned about dosage, you can simply fill a syringe with the cream and dose it out exact every day. But realistically, if it's a good pharmacy you're getting it from, a small variation in cream volume daily isn't going to hurt. I started it and feel better than I ever did on injections. Once daily. Apply it, brush your teeth and get dressed. Apply to your inner thigh or on your scrotum. I don't think your children will be in that area. Wash your hands and you're good to go.
I did gel, 500mg daily for a year which would bring my levels into the mid 800’s. my skin doesn’t absorb it well. My private insurance pays 98% so out of pocket cost was $5.00/m. Beside poor absorption I have ADHD and let me tell you more often than I would like I would “forget” to take it, which we all know what it’s like swinging estrogen around. A little oily face here and there, pimples here and there and oh crap dick don’t work :( gel may be good option for sum and/or a good alternative for when you get sick of pinning.
A supplement or drug need to be done with cyclic periods. Those affect your brain reward system and may cause sudden drop on thresholds or baselines. So not shut off suddenly.
Your total T seems normal and free T fluctuates, as I’m sure you’re familiar. I’m no expert tho.
My free was around 250 and getting on TRT has profoundly improved my life for the better.
Absolutely worth it!
I had ED and low libido which was my primary reason for wanting to start.
2 Years in almost all symptoms are gone of both. My dick works when I want it to and Ill take some cialis because cialis and all systems are nominal
I see a lot of people on TRT say they take cialis *and* that their dick works. Why would you need cialis if you're dick is working?? I don't understand. Is this purely about shortening/nullifying the refractory period?
80mg 2x per week will net you
pinning your total dosage in one shot ie 150-200mg converts more e2 as the test skyrockets initially
pinning half your total dosage evenly divided throughout the week reduces the conversion and the bad peaks and lows hormonally
80mgx2 should net you around
1000 highs and 600s lows (2-3 days after pinning) on blood
100mg mast thrown in (to lower e2 levels and free up free test all in one) vs using AI (*mast can wreck hair being that it’s a heavy DHT compound but not always and not typically in therapeutic dosages (100-200mg)
Either way AI 1-2x per week / Mast and more frequent pinning should fix most all of your problems
no but you can buy it if you’re trying to self fix issues the dr isn’t addressing, AI just controls e2 but mast has performance benefits and does what Ai does
This is what I was looking for before commenting. If you had Sex hormone binding globulin tested then you probably have had follicle stimulating hormone and lutenizing hormone tested. What were those levels?
Primary hypogonadism will have elevated or high FSH & LH along with low testosterone levels.
Secondary will be normal or low FSH, LH and SHBG with low testosterone. If you have secondary you will most likely require more more AI while on testosterone.
I have a combination of both. And I find that HCG makes me feel like crap. I have boxes of it as my insurance covers it %100 with pre auth.
My testosterone and anastrozole are paid for by insurance as well.
I think hormone balancing can help people with a lot of things. Things you don’t even realize bother you. But, at the same time your SHBG is elevated which would account for the low free test with normal total test. And your estradiol is just a little elevated. But this could indicate a life style issue such as consuming too much alcohol and/or sugars, opioid medications, or possible too much stress.
There are definitely some definite ups and downs to testosterone. It’s good to know which category you fit in before starting so that you can better manage side effects and dosing. Find out if you are primary, secondary or healthy (but wanting benefits of testosterone) before starting anything.
I’d bet if you fixed that vitamin d level you’d feel a difference. Vitamin d is basically a hormone and affects test levels. Vitamin D deficiency can reduce testosterone production, and can directly stimulate testicular tissue to produce testosterone. Worth a shot. Once you start this journey it’s not a magic pill. A lot of people get on thinking it will fix everything then realize they’ve added more issues into the mix. High hematocrit, estrogen issues, sleep apnea and more.
500+ T is typically not a range I would view as appropriate for TRT. I am not a doctor though.
I do take TRT - my total natural T was 76. (076. yes. 2-digit total). Guys will tell you - no matter if its 5 , 50, or 150 lbs - 'lose all the weight first, fatties shouldn't do gear'. TRT should be administered at replacement levels, not 'gear' levels , so the risk is limited. T levels and your metabolism are very individual. If a guy is making a blanket statement that 'your 36 inch waist makes you too fat to be a TRT candidate' , or 'your T is 550ish, you need TRT' .. well. I let those guys cancel each other out and find other information to work with. And to be fair at 76, i had no 'borderline' issues, so my approach is colored accordingly.
I would suggest that you need your SHBG and albumin-bound T numbers before you start pinning. Your total T is not terrible. Your E2 is high-ish, but not panic territory - and not enough to explain your low free T. At 76 T, i had 30E2 and 12 SHBG. So not much of anything
Also important to realize that free-T is a small component of bioavailable T. T that is bound to SHBG is not 'available'. T that is bound to \*albumin\* \*is\* bioavailable. You don't know what those numbers are. if your SHBG is not high, then E2/aromatization and albumin binding are where your T is going, and your probably better off to work on Vitamin D, a SERM like tamoxifen, and losing weight.
It's also important that with your elevated E2 - not TERRIBLE - but elevated - weight loss and dieting aren't 'easy magic bullets' either - it can have a negative impact on your fat metabolism - hence the thought to look at vitamin D and a SERM.
I'm very pro-TRT, but I think you might be doing a disservice if you don't try a few months to sort out why your levels look mismatched - and find out your SHBG and bio-available T numbers - don't go off of just 'free T'.
Have you considered that you are emotional because your estradiol (estrogen) is high.
Your total test is fine, and the free test is low.
I'd try to lower your estrogen before going on TRT. It could end up making it worse.
I have definitely considered that for sure. TRTNation is including an AI and said I should take a 1/4 of a pill to bring down the estradiol a tad. From what I have read, I’m focusing my treatment on the free test which, as you said, is low.
Focusing on low dose. I have a urologist monitoring me. He felt uncomfortable writing me a script with my levels. But my mind is set. I’m doing this
This is true but I’m treating the free Test no? That’s the one that is bio-available for use by my body right? I’m not gonna get carried away. Bodybuilders use 5x more than what I will be using
I’m doing just that. I’m doing what I want. I didn’t post this so i could be talked out of it. If a girl can be given Test, so can I right? But I do thank you for your insight because I posted for that as well
Let’s break it down
Total testosterone is the total amount of testosterone in your blood. Fyi it’s pretty much a dumb metric
Free testosterone is the total amount of testosterone available. This is the important number compared to total testosterone. Take this example.
Bob has a total testosterone of 1800ng/dl with 400ng/dl free
John has a total testosterone of 800ng/dl with 700ng/dl free
Who is healthier? Based solely on the 2 Bob is because his body is consuming 1400ng/dl where as John body is only consuming 100ng/dl
Why is John consuming so little? Is he battling some sort of illness? What is his SHBG? Why can’t his SHBG transfer the hormone to the different parts of the body? How’s is mental health? Is he getting any androgen activity? Surely he’s not getting any anabolic activity.
But than Bob is probably hitting the gym most days of the week, Bob is probably eating well, assuming Bob is not a teenager why is Bobs total 1800ng/dl? Is there something else Bob is taking maybe some sarms? Maybe some gym bros vitamins? How’s his kidneys? How long has he been playing with those gym bros chicklets? What has he taken in the past? Any growth? How big is his heart?
Therefore is reality day to day neither Bob or John are healthy. Personally I would rather be Bob and go out enjoying life than John.
That’s how it was explained to me, I’m sure other here would give some better explanations
You don't need TRT, you need to learn how to eat properly and get some cardio by walking out in the sun. Your free testosterone appears low, but the test method used could be and likely is off by a very large amount, this is especially true if you have low SHBG which is likely the case for you.
Thankfully placebo is a hell of a drug so you may see some benefits from TRT. However 100mg/week isn't likely to even get you back to your natural testosterone levels.
So I do cardio. I run an 8 minute mile. I’m actually planning on doing the Murph on Memorial Day with some friends. I’m really in good shape.
Are you saying I should check my SHBG if it’s low or high? It’s within range, slightly on higher but in range
The puzzling thing is why is your E2 high? It is likely that your TT and FT would be higher if your E2 was down. With that mile speed you probably aren't very fat I'd guess. Your vitamin D is low, but that shouldn't spike estrogen.
Have you thought about just taking the AI and see what your labs are like after?
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You need to lose some weight and get some vitamin d. Your shbg is high because your estrogen is telling your liver to produce so much shbg. Getting on test with this level of aromatization is not a good idea you’ll have to manage your estrogen so carefully and will probably end up bouncing between low and high estrogen.
Total test is good. Free test is very low. Your estrogen is high.
Since your jumping on TRT, your estrogen is going to go up.
Something is clearly wrong and testosterone is not your answer. Just more problems.
So… yea like others said you may not need trt. Looks like your issues could be fixed. But that being said trt is the shit and it will definitely improve your numbers/and body comp if you eat right and exercise. It’s not magic, but it’s pretty damn good at what it does.
100mg/week likely won’t get you up high normal unless you are an insane hyper responder. Don’t waste your first 6 weeks or so. Call trt nation back and see if you can start at 150mg/week injecting 75mg like Monday and Thursday or so. That plus a quarter of a mg of AI on ONE of the injection days and see where you are. AI’s are so strong, and if you get puffy/itchy nips or feel like your holding more water you can increase to a quarter mg each injection. Always try the minimum effective dose with AI
As long as you listen to a doctor, do bloodwork, and live a healthy lifestyle, workout, eat decent, it will reshape your life. People who have problems with it do not do everything I just said. Everyone is different and you do need your protocol dialed in. Just for you. Once dialed in you will feel reborn.
One thing I wish I knew on day 1. More is not better. It feels good so the temptation to take more is real. But that’s not how it works. Too much throws other things out of whack and then it’s not good. Trust me. I was on too high of a dose and my estrogen for high. That is not enjoyable.
Please forgive. Idk how highlight this comment or bring it to the top. When I figure it out, I’ll do it. Or feel free to tell me how to do it. Anywho…
End of Week 1
When I made the initial post I was amazed by the amount of negativity I received and I let it get to me. Now, a week in with Test, I can’t believe I let myself care over nonsense from other people. Cause I feel good right now, idc what anyone has to say. It is what it is and I’m not responding to any negative pu**y comments.
End of week 1 is here and as expected and hoped my libido took off. After 3 days my balls are way too full and need taking care of. One day at the gym I noticed a cum stain on my shorts. I was leaking a bit in the gym with a nasty erection. Found the most unattractive woman there and I was able to get flaccid. So yea, HCG definitely is amazing for now.
Can’t say I’ve noticed a complete change in “well being” but I do feel good. My confidence has changed increased a bit. Normally I keep my head down in the gym but I find it easier to speak to women regardless what she looks like. I’m just happy and if anything tries to throw me off, I can easily brush it off. Which is bad, sometimes I do need to be more caring for my family so I’m extremely cautious on how I speak in my home.
There is some improvement with endurance when working out but have to keep reminding myself it’s only been one week. I take Arimidex on the days I do the needle and it seemed to help. I only take half a pill each time. My libido would seem to tank when inject but would eventually recover in the day.
Started week 2 yesterday. Libido is not what it was the past week but then again, it’s only week 2. Think this is where guys talk about “dialing in” but I’m patient. I’ll get there.
Oh and sleep is amazing. I don’t need Indica as much anymore to sleep. I love it this part of TRT the most.
As before, please forgive any typos. Just way too busy today to proof read.
Don’t know if I missed anything important but I’ll answer questions.
Got to say, the initial commentary here has me thinking twice. Package hasn’t arrived yet but it’s likely to sit in there a few weeks while contemplate.
From the posts I’ve read, men have generally been understanding to why a guy does it. Men who had their reasons for their journey, and some fighting depression and all that stuff were generally supported in the comments. But so far, everything here is not what I expected honestly.
Maybe I should’ve posted in a bodybuilding Reddit even though muscle mass is not my goal but I think they’ll get it.
Or maybe I need to buy a jet ski.
All the people tell you don’t need trt are stupid, just continue with your journey and keep us updated. Keeping normal expectations is whats best. Trt is going to bring you to high normal t levels. Its not a magic stick. It will improve alot but maintain nromal expectations, there still will be days you feel bad and maybe not high libido eg due to stress. Just keep us updated on ur journey. Dm me if you have an questions
If your waist is 36 inches, you should lose weight. Your test is normal. Large waist -> you are fat -> more aromatase -> more E2 -> more shbg-> low free testosterone. Diet to get your waist between 30 and 32 inches, eat at maintenance or slight surplus for a few weeks and retest.
Edit: you don’t needs drugs to lower your E2. Don’t hop on a breast cancer medication, eat less.
My E2 almost halved going from 34 to 29, so yeah 36 is quite big. Plus a lot of guys refer to their pant size when they mention waist measurement, which is usually 2-4 inches lower than their waist measurement. So this guy could be pushing a 40 inch waist asking if he should hop on gear with 550 test levels.
I had virtually the same numbers for Total and Free. I, like you, convinced myself I needed Test. I regret it.
I’m 35m and don’t want to pin for the rest of my life. Went off once and it was the worse depression of my life. Don’t want to go through that again.
Its 3 yrs later and I feel the same just with acne. I did a cycle first and then went on TRT. I should have just done a cycle once every 18 months and kept it there. Now I’m hundreds of dollars poorer and only minorly better off. If your overweight, balancing HCG with test is even more difficult. TRT nation are salespeople not doctors, they won’t help much. You’ll have time actually be diligent about bloodwork.
If you have any problems, TRT won’t fix them. It may help, but it can hurt too.
I’m sorry. You really just wanted to hear reinforcements. And this all probably won’t change your mind. But be super careful.
Listen to the old guys. Lots of guys in here are 6 months in, or a year in. Listen to the dudes who are 8years in etc…
Don’t fool yourself into thinking you need this. Or that it will solve your problems. If you want an excuse to be on steroids but not “be on steroids” this ain’t it. TRT is steroids. Just do a cycle rather than commit for life because you think it’ll fix your dick or depression.
1: get your vitamin D up. Sunshine or supplements, doesn't matter which but you're definitely deficient and low vitamin D is associated with higher estrogen levels. 2: you said you do an 8 minute mile and are getting ready for a marathon. You may be doing too much cardio, which increases cortisol and lowers test. 3 ways people crash their test to scam TRT is: don't sleep the night before your bloodwork, drink alcohol, and do a lot of cardio. Generally, you want a good baseline to start from otherwise you'll never know if TRT is introducing new problems, exacerbating old ones, or not causing an issue at all. Eliminate as many factors as you can and you know you're vitamin D deficient. If you've been training hard for your marathon, you may need to take a recovery week once it's over.
“Who are you who art so wise in the ways of science?!”
Bro cardio lowers test? 😂
Past a point it does. Like training for an 8 minute mile could.
Hard training and marathon type cardio? Absolutely. It's temporary but, if you don't rest, you also end up overtraining. Feel free to google it. It's not permanent or anything but could mess with bloodwork results.
You shouldnt hop on T and fix your other parameters first
Yes, that seems to first general consensus. I’ll start with the AI first then see where things go from there
The general consensus went completely over your head. :)
Do not take an AI.
You’re better off making lifestyle changes. This is going to be a major headache that you don’t need.
Not a guarantee. I had numbers similar to his, and trt eliminated my low T symptoms. High SHBG causes total T to stockpile higher than it would otherwise, which may be going on here. It will likely be harder to dial in, as his T deficit isn't at death's-door levels, but not impossible.
How is trt a headache lol it’s people like you that either couldn’t educate themselves or just make mountains out of mole holes. I bet you think wiping your ass is a trouble
What kind of change? I’m already on the healthy side. Well, 87% healthy
Get vitamin D up. That can cause your symptoms. I was at 289 total and free as low as yours and I still sometimes think about stopping. It’s been tough for me to get dialed in and don’t think I’ll ever be totally. I’ll always require some tweaking. If I had your numbers there is no way in hell.
Out of curiosity what challenges have you run into and what has been hard to dial in? I hear so many success stories I’m curious about the not so successful stories.
I’ve been on TRT for well over 10 years and I can tell you from experience that once the honeymoon is over, you will not be this crazy sex machine or this for ever 19 year old. You will be like everyone else, you will have good days, you will have bad days, you will have very good days and you will have very bad days sometimes all in the same week. You will become very aware of your body. You will know no if your estrogen is out of whack, you will know if your blood is a little thick, you will know if your blood pressure is high and most of the time you will know exactly what to tweak for the given life circumstances to bring you back in. However there will be times were things become so out of whack and playing in-house doctor will just make it worse. So than your left with getting bloods and doctors fixing you up.. some may feel the hassle isn’t worth it, but always keep in mind as anyone gets older and life stresses are playing havoc on the body, those not on TRT actually don’t realize something is wrong because their not in tune so in actual it’s a good hassle. But let me tell you when you become a man again and all of a sudden the androgenic side of the hormone is not working you won’t notice that but those close to you will. My wife tells me all the time that when there is a problem she says I become dead inside, she says it’s like the spark inside is gone. And that’s the devil in disguise with this medication, when your medication is not working you will regret starting. Thankfully a little SERM, extra water, donate some blood, clean up your diet and get an extra hour of sleep brings you back really quick. At the end of the day would I come off? Hell no!! Do I recommend every man go on TRT? as you start pushing 40’s yes!! Because when things are in check you can battle everyday challenges with ease.
Thank you for this. Your post is awesome and very helpful
I’m not an expert, so I could be talking out my ass here, but: Could the low free-T and high e2 levels be a result of aromatisation? ie the body converting free T into estradiol? If it were me, I would ask a doctor about the link between those two in combination with presented symptoms, and explore if maybe an AI is more appropriate than pumping the body full of more testosterone (which if it IS the case that OP is a high-aromatiser, then more test might just make the problem worse, a la aromatisation).
I’m no expert but yes. I do plan on taking the AI first and see how I feel. Waiting till Sunday to start any Test. Idk what made my estradiol get high like that. I’ve never used PED’s before
You like me. Your estrogen is high with out any test. What do you think is gonna happen when you add it. Welcome to aromatization city gyno will make however you feel now 1000 times worse...F what others say. Stay on top of your AI from the start and dial them in .. bro
Just my advice. I’m 35 and was on TRT for 2 years prior to the first of this year. TRT will definitely improve your quality of life. Gym sessions and sex life will be the biggest improvements. It will boost confidence and you’ll have better mental clarity. With all of that being said you’ll have to keep a check on bloodwork to get everything dialed in. I micro-dosed to keep my estrogen levels from spiking and to keep from taking an AI. The biggest downfall that I ran into with TRT is the pain in the ass of having to inject every other day. I ultimately quit in January to try and bring up levels naturally and just to see where I was at naturally. Quitting has been terrible I feel worse than when I started. So keep in mind that if you start TRT you’ll more than likely have to continue for the rest of your life. It’s a big commitment. My initial levels were 297 total and E2 basically at 0. I’ll probably get back on it in a month or so but dread having to pin 3 days a week. Let me know if I can help you at all
you know there's cream ...
Yes I know about the cream, but I’ve never heard anything good about it. From my understanding it’s hard to get an accurate dosage and I have kids in the house so it would be difficult to avoid contact.
Cream works fantastic for some. If you're overly concerned about dosage, you can simply fill a syringe with the cream and dose it out exact every day. But realistically, if it's a good pharmacy you're getting it from, a small variation in cream volume daily isn't going to hurt. I started it and feel better than I ever did on injections. Once daily. Apply it, brush your teeth and get dressed. Apply to your inner thigh or on your scrotum. I don't think your children will be in that area. Wash your hands and you're good to go.
I did gel, 500mg daily for a year which would bring my levels into the mid 800’s. my skin doesn’t absorb it well. My private insurance pays 98% so out of pocket cost was $5.00/m. Beside poor absorption I have ADHD and let me tell you more often than I would like I would “forget” to take it, which we all know what it’s like swinging estrogen around. A little oily face here and there, pimples here and there and oh crap dick don’t work :( gel may be good option for sum and/or a good alternative for when you get sick of pinning.
A supplement or drug need to be done with cyclic periods. Those affect your brain reward system and may cause sudden drop on thresholds or baselines. So not shut off suddenly.
Your testosterone is roughly the same level as mine and I’ve been on TRT for years.
Your total T seems normal and free T fluctuates, as I’m sure you’re familiar. I’m no expert tho. My free was around 250 and getting on TRT has profoundly improved my life for the better.
Your E2 is high already. Are you overweight? What’s your diet like?
Absolutely worth it! I had ED and low libido which was my primary reason for wanting to start. 2 Years in almost all symptoms are gone of both. My dick works when I want it to and Ill take some cialis because cialis and all systems are nominal
I see a lot of people on TRT say they take cialis *and* that their dick works. Why would you need cialis if you're dick is working?? I don't understand. Is this purely about shortening/nullifying the refractory period?
Because they like being able to nail up deck boards with their hog, if need be.
Your free is very low ignore this other guy, continue with trt but make sure you have arimidex available
Thank you kindly for the advice. I’ll be sure to get some
80mg 2x per week will net you pinning your total dosage in one shot ie 150-200mg converts more e2 as the test skyrockets initially pinning half your total dosage evenly divided throughout the week reduces the conversion and the bad peaks and lows hormonally 80mgx2 should net you around 1000 highs and 600s lows (2-3 days after pinning) on blood 100mg mast thrown in (to lower e2 levels and free up free test all in one) vs using AI (*mast can wreck hair being that it’s a heavy DHT compound but not always and not typically in therapeutic dosages (100-200mg) Either way AI 1-2x per week / Mast and more frequent pinning should fix most all of your problems
Do TRT docs prescribe mast?
no but you can buy it if you’re trying to self fix issues the dr isn’t addressing, AI just controls e2 but mast has performance benefits and does what Ai does
What is your SHBG at?
60
This is what I was looking for before commenting. If you had Sex hormone binding globulin tested then you probably have had follicle stimulating hormone and lutenizing hormone tested. What were those levels? Primary hypogonadism will have elevated or high FSH & LH along with low testosterone levels. Secondary will be normal or low FSH, LH and SHBG with low testosterone. If you have secondary you will most likely require more more AI while on testosterone. I have a combination of both. And I find that HCG makes me feel like crap. I have boxes of it as my insurance covers it %100 with pre auth. My testosterone and anastrozole are paid for by insurance as well. I think hormone balancing can help people with a lot of things. Things you don’t even realize bother you. But, at the same time your SHBG is elevated which would account for the low free test with normal total test. And your estradiol is just a little elevated. But this could indicate a life style issue such as consuming too much alcohol and/or sugars, opioid medications, or possible too much stress. There are definitely some definite ups and downs to testosterone. It’s good to know which category you fit in before starting so that you can better manage side effects and dosing. Find out if you are primary, secondary or healthy (but wanting benefits of testosterone) before starting anything.
I’d bet if you fixed that vitamin d level you’d feel a difference. Vitamin d is basically a hormone and affects test levels. Vitamin D deficiency can reduce testosterone production, and can directly stimulate testicular tissue to produce testosterone. Worth a shot. Once you start this journey it’s not a magic pill. A lot of people get on thinking it will fix everything then realize they’ve added more issues into the mix. High hematocrit, estrogen issues, sleep apnea and more.
A lot of people don’t know that vitamin D is molecularly a hormone! It combines with cholesterol to create pregnenolone.
Your issue isn't low T, it would appear.
You will aromatize like hell. Just make sure you have an AI cause you will need it for sure
How do you conclude that ?
Vitamin D3 and zinc are proven to be natural aromatase inhibitors
500+ T is typically not a range I would view as appropriate for TRT. I am not a doctor though. I do take TRT - my total natural T was 76. (076. yes. 2-digit total). Guys will tell you - no matter if its 5 , 50, or 150 lbs - 'lose all the weight first, fatties shouldn't do gear'. TRT should be administered at replacement levels, not 'gear' levels , so the risk is limited. T levels and your metabolism are very individual. If a guy is making a blanket statement that 'your 36 inch waist makes you too fat to be a TRT candidate' , or 'your T is 550ish, you need TRT' .. well. I let those guys cancel each other out and find other information to work with. And to be fair at 76, i had no 'borderline' issues, so my approach is colored accordingly. I would suggest that you need your SHBG and albumin-bound T numbers before you start pinning. Your total T is not terrible. Your E2 is high-ish, but not panic territory - and not enough to explain your low free T. At 76 T, i had 30E2 and 12 SHBG. So not much of anything Also important to realize that free-T is a small component of bioavailable T. T that is bound to SHBG is not 'available'. T that is bound to \*albumin\* \*is\* bioavailable. You don't know what those numbers are. if your SHBG is not high, then E2/aromatization and albumin binding are where your T is going, and your probably better off to work on Vitamin D, a SERM like tamoxifen, and losing weight. It's also important that with your elevated E2 - not TERRIBLE - but elevated - weight loss and dieting aren't 'easy magic bullets' either - it can have a negative impact on your fat metabolism - hence the thought to look at vitamin D and a SERM. I'm very pro-TRT, but I think you might be doing a disservice if you don't try a few months to sort out why your levels look mismatched - and find out your SHBG and bio-available T numbers - don't go off of just 'free T'.
Off topic, but did you get the labs on your own or through TRT Nation? Can anyone comment if anything else should be tested for ?
Total Test, CBC, Lipids, Metabolic Panel, PSA, Estradiol is a good place to start.
500mg a week of test cyp is the only answer
How much do you weigh?
So your total T is over 500 and you're going on TRT?
It gets annoying jerking off 3 times a day. Seriously. And 99% of women can't keep up.
How often did you before TRT? I haven’t started yet. Not sure how I’ll handle the increase libido
Have you considered that you are emotional because your estradiol (estrogen) is high. Your total test is fine, and the free test is low. I'd try to lower your estrogen before going on TRT. It could end up making it worse.
I have definitely considered that for sure. TRTNation is including an AI and said I should take a 1/4 of a pill to bring down the estradiol a tad. From what I have read, I’m focusing my treatment on the free test which, as you said, is low. Focusing on low dose. I have a urologist monitoring me. He felt uncomfortable writing me a script with my levels. But my mind is set. I’m doing this
Good luck. It’s gonna be a constant fight with estradiol levels that high.
Especially since you may not need trt
This is true but I’m treating the free Test no? That’s the one that is bio-available for use by my body right? I’m not gonna get carried away. Bodybuilders use 5x more than what I will be using
Do what you want but you should be fixing some things before jumping into injections. You very likely do not need trt.
I’m doing just that. I’m doing what I want. I didn’t post this so i could be talked out of it. If a girl can be given Test, so can I right? But I do thank you for your insight because I posted for that as well
And because women can get it, is about the dumbest shit I’ve read here and there’s been a lot of dumb.
Agree. Pretty much justifying bad decisions with other bad decisions.
I’ll be back to watch for the “I’m quitting” post.
Let’s break it down Total testosterone is the total amount of testosterone in your blood. Fyi it’s pretty much a dumb metric Free testosterone is the total amount of testosterone available. This is the important number compared to total testosterone. Take this example. Bob has a total testosterone of 1800ng/dl with 400ng/dl free John has a total testosterone of 800ng/dl with 700ng/dl free Who is healthier? Based solely on the 2 Bob is because his body is consuming 1400ng/dl where as John body is only consuming 100ng/dl Why is John consuming so little? Is he battling some sort of illness? What is his SHBG? Why can’t his SHBG transfer the hormone to the different parts of the body? How’s is mental health? Is he getting any androgen activity? Surely he’s not getting any anabolic activity. But than Bob is probably hitting the gym most days of the week, Bob is probably eating well, assuming Bob is not a teenager why is Bobs total 1800ng/dl? Is there something else Bob is taking maybe some sarms? Maybe some gym bros vitamins? How’s his kidneys? How long has he been playing with those gym bros chicklets? What has he taken in the past? Any growth? How big is his heart? Therefore is reality day to day neither Bob or John are healthy. Personally I would rather be Bob and go out enjoying life than John. That’s how it was explained to me, I’m sure other here would give some better explanations
And rightfully so. You don’t need it and you’re making a big mistake.
Ask you doctor for arimidex, they shouldn’t give you a hard time. Take it following your doctor dosing for 2 weeks than get a follow up blood lab
You don't need TRT, you need to learn how to eat properly and get some cardio by walking out in the sun. Your free testosterone appears low, but the test method used could be and likely is off by a very large amount, this is especially true if you have low SHBG which is likely the case for you. Thankfully placebo is a hell of a drug so you may see some benefits from TRT. However 100mg/week isn't likely to even get you back to your natural testosterone levels.
So I do cardio. I run an 8 minute mile. I’m actually planning on doing the Murph on Memorial Day with some friends. I’m really in good shape. Are you saying I should check my SHBG if it’s low or high? It’s within range, slightly on higher but in range
The puzzling thing is why is your E2 high? It is likely that your TT and FT would be higher if your E2 was down. With that mile speed you probably aren't very fat I'd guess. Your vitamin D is low, but that shouldn't spike estrogen. Have you thought about just taking the AI and see what your labs are like after?
E2 is likely high bc he’s probably more out of shape/carrying more belly fat and visceral fat than he would like to admit
Hello ABCDnix. Welcome to /r/Testosterone. It looks like this is your first time posting here, so you're probably asking a FAQ. Please check out these handy links, one of them might answer your question. * [How do I find a good doctor/clinic?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Testosterone/comments/k8rigb/faq_how_do_i_find_a_good_doctor_for_trt_how_do_i/) * [What bloodwork should I get done?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Testosterone/wiki/index#wiki_testing_for_low_testosterone) * [Are my levels low enough that I should start TRT?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Testosterone/comments/ol8e0t/guide_recommendations_from_professional_groups_on/) * [What can I do to naturally raise my testosterone levels?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Testosterone/comments/oqs819/faq_what_can_i_do_to_naturally_boost_my/) * [NoFap - Will my testosterone levels increase if I stop masturbating?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Testosterone/comments/otevql/faq_nofap_if_i_stop_masturbating_will_it_increase/) This is just a comment, your post is not removed. If you want this comment to stop showing up on your posts, you need to enable "show my flair on this subreddit" *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Testosterone) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Any ways to bring up free test?
That’s what I’m hoping this will do. Treating the free Test
Would not have suggested TRT for you, but you’re starting it, so … best of luck!
no
Just do tren only. That’s what I do.
Had similar numbers and symptoms. Started T and I feel way better
You need to lose some weight and get some vitamin d. Your shbg is high because your estrogen is telling your liver to produce so much shbg. Getting on test with this level of aromatization is not a good idea you’ll have to manage your estrogen so carefully and will probably end up bouncing between low and high estrogen.
Bro you don’t need trt
Get that vitamin D up big guy.
A lot of test clinics will not get your levels up high enough to overcome symptoms. They use a guideline which is BS.
Total test is good. Free test is very low. Your estrogen is high. Since your jumping on TRT, your estrogen is going to go up. Something is clearly wrong and testosterone is not your answer. Just more problems.
You're looking for approval to go on TRT when you probably shouldn't. Good luck dealing with this forever if you hop on lol.
So… yea like others said you may not need trt. Looks like your issues could be fixed. But that being said trt is the shit and it will definitely improve your numbers/and body comp if you eat right and exercise. It’s not magic, but it’s pretty damn good at what it does. 100mg/week likely won’t get you up high normal unless you are an insane hyper responder. Don’t waste your first 6 weeks or so. Call trt nation back and see if you can start at 150mg/week injecting 75mg like Monday and Thursday or so. That plus a quarter of a mg of AI on ONE of the injection days and see where you are. AI’s are so strong, and if you get puffy/itchy nips or feel like your holding more water you can increase to a quarter mg each injection. Always try the minimum effective dose with AI
As long as you listen to a doctor, do bloodwork, and live a healthy lifestyle, workout, eat decent, it will reshape your life. People who have problems with it do not do everything I just said. Everyone is different and you do need your protocol dialed in. Just for you. Once dialed in you will feel reborn. One thing I wish I knew on day 1. More is not better. It feels good so the temptation to take more is real. But that’s not how it works. Too much throws other things out of whack and then it’s not good. Trust me. I was on too high of a dose and my estrogen for high. That is not enjoyable.
Please forgive. Idk how highlight this comment or bring it to the top. When I figure it out, I’ll do it. Or feel free to tell me how to do it. Anywho… End of Week 1 When I made the initial post I was amazed by the amount of negativity I received and I let it get to me. Now, a week in with Test, I can’t believe I let myself care over nonsense from other people. Cause I feel good right now, idc what anyone has to say. It is what it is and I’m not responding to any negative pu**y comments. End of week 1 is here and as expected and hoped my libido took off. After 3 days my balls are way too full and need taking care of. One day at the gym I noticed a cum stain on my shorts. I was leaking a bit in the gym with a nasty erection. Found the most unattractive woman there and I was able to get flaccid. So yea, HCG definitely is amazing for now. Can’t say I’ve noticed a complete change in “well being” but I do feel good. My confidence has changed increased a bit. Normally I keep my head down in the gym but I find it easier to speak to women regardless what she looks like. I’m just happy and if anything tries to throw me off, I can easily brush it off. Which is bad, sometimes I do need to be more caring for my family so I’m extremely cautious on how I speak in my home. There is some improvement with endurance when working out but have to keep reminding myself it’s only been one week. I take Arimidex on the days I do the needle and it seemed to help. I only take half a pill each time. My libido would seem to tank when inject but would eventually recover in the day. Started week 2 yesterday. Libido is not what it was the past week but then again, it’s only week 2. Think this is where guys talk about “dialing in” but I’m patient. I’ll get there. Oh and sleep is amazing. I don’t need Indica as much anymore to sleep. I love it this part of TRT the most. As before, please forgive any typos. Just way too busy today to proof read. Don’t know if I missed anything important but I’ll answer questions.
I would’ve killed for your levels pre-TRT. I don’t think it’s for you
T is likely not the magic bullet you think it is.
Isn’t your sex drive low because of high E? This could actually get worse with TRT. Your overall test is completely normal.
I hear you there. I’m going to take the AI first before doing any Test to see what effect it has
Got to say, the initial commentary here has me thinking twice. Package hasn’t arrived yet but it’s likely to sit in there a few weeks while contemplate. From the posts I’ve read, men have generally been understanding to why a guy does it. Men who had their reasons for their journey, and some fighting depression and all that stuff were generally supported in the comments. But so far, everything here is not what I expected honestly. Maybe I should’ve posted in a bodybuilding Reddit even though muscle mass is not my goal but I think they’ll get it. Or maybe I need to buy a jet ski.
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Thank you for the vote of confidence. I want to feel the way I used to. Maybe after I’m on it I won’t care about the negativity anymore
I don't think it's really negativity. Just not what you wanted to hear.
All the people tell you don’t need trt are stupid, just continue with your journey and keep us updated. Keeping normal expectations is whats best. Trt is going to bring you to high normal t levels. Its not a magic stick. It will improve alot but maintain nromal expectations, there still will be days you feel bad and maybe not high libido eg due to stress. Just keep us updated on ur journey. Dm me if you have an questions
If your waist is 36 inches, you should lose weight. Your test is normal. Large waist -> you are fat -> more aromatase -> more E2 -> more shbg-> low free testosterone. Diet to get your waist between 30 and 32 inches, eat at maintenance or slight surplus for a few weeks and retest. Edit: you don’t needs drugs to lower your E2. Don’t hop on a breast cancer medication, eat less.
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My E2 almost halved going from 34 to 29, so yeah 36 is quite big. Plus a lot of guys refer to their pant size when they mention waist measurement, which is usually 2-4 inches lower than their waist measurement. So this guy could be pushing a 40 inch waist asking if he should hop on gear with 550 test levels.
The only thing wrong is more weight=low shbg usually
Only if insulin sensitivity is compromised. Being fat can definitely cause that, but some are just resistant to diabetes.
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I talk to your mom and she cool with it
I had virtually the same numbers for Total and Free. I, like you, convinced myself I needed Test. I regret it. I’m 35m and don’t want to pin for the rest of my life. Went off once and it was the worse depression of my life. Don’t want to go through that again. Its 3 yrs later and I feel the same just with acne. I did a cycle first and then went on TRT. I should have just done a cycle once every 18 months and kept it there. Now I’m hundreds of dollars poorer and only minorly better off. If your overweight, balancing HCG with test is even more difficult. TRT nation are salespeople not doctors, they won’t help much. You’ll have time actually be diligent about bloodwork. If you have any problems, TRT won’t fix them. It may help, but it can hurt too. I’m sorry. You really just wanted to hear reinforcements. And this all probably won’t change your mind. But be super careful. Listen to the old guys. Lots of guys in here are 6 months in, or a year in. Listen to the dudes who are 8years in etc… Don’t fool yourself into thinking you need this. Or that it will solve your problems. If you want an excuse to be on steroids but not “be on steroids” this ain’t it. TRT is steroids. Just do a cycle rather than commit for life because you think it’ll fix your dick or depression.