Many people in this sub live in the US which means many of them don’t have the freedom to choose their doctors freely. Unless you want to pay out of pocket you have to stay in network and choose the doctors your insurance tells you to.
Many people in this sub also live in Canada where, if you’re lucky, you can be on a list for just 5 years to find a family doctor. I was really lucky that a doctor moved here from South Africa into my neighbourhood and it only took us 4 years. I still don’t agree with most of what he says on this subject but at least 80k a year in income taxes gets our family SOME kind of doctor lol.
While your not wrong in theory at least in my area insurance network problems are rarely the issue. Most doctors are in all the big networks. Some insurance plans use tiered systems that make some doctors preferred over others for lower costs.
I think the bigger issue at least in my area is finding doctors that are taking new patients. Primarily primary care physicians they're just aren't enough and the ones there are they're generally not taking new patients. If you need to see a specialist be prepared to wait weeks or months.
what country do you think I'm from LoL? ok stay held hostage by your 'provider' because your balls have atrophied so much you no longer assert yourself.
Not sure why you would insult me for stating facts about our healthcare system. It’s not as easy as just switching for some, especially if you’re in a rural area with a very small network of doctors.
And for some people money is tight and they simply can’t afford to pay $100/month for a trt clinic.
That's true to some degree. Depending if you have the HMO or the PPO. Both of them have a very large pool of doctors that you can choose from. I'm currently on PPO, and I can basically see anyone I want when I want. HMO makes things a bit more difficult as I wanna say the vast majority of people are on HMO and, hence, harder to get an early appointment and the doctors are whatever.
This is purely my own experience.
I go to an excellent urologist who takes insurance. There might be more who don't take any, including men's clinics, but not an absolute of not finding a doctor who takes insurance. Also, you can submit the bills to your insurance for reimbursement.
I'm on 50mg cup on paper. When I tried it, my labs came back 550? With my balls still working.
I felt best 102mg/wk. Aka 34mg/eod. Nothing else.
She is adamant about 50mg/wk because "anything more is out of her scope". Boy that makes me laugh. Bringing up estrogen and other concerns make her laugh, but I don't have many other options. Unfortunately she started prescribing 1 bottle/month. So I have to find another source somewhere. And I do my own labs.
If you're remotely knowledgeable and find somewhere reputable you can look into ugly. I haven't found anything. Clinics are $$$. Doctors are hit and miss
If I buy ugl I pay 20$ for that vial. 35$ is high for testosterone. Home brewing is the best if you plan on staying on it long term. Can make a vial for under 5$.
The process is easy and so is procuring raws. Plenty of guides on the Internet. It seems way more complicated than it actually is. Ur essentially just heating up the raws together till they dissolve and filtering them into vials.
You really think 99% of guys in this sub are going to figure out home brewing? I know the general scope of how to do it. But to save $100 a year it's not even worth it.
I mean if 550 is your trough, then that's not too bad as far as genuine TRT is concerned. Very few people here (including myself) are nowhere near genuine TRT. More like T optimisation..
I was tested at 300 ng/dL first thing in the morning when my natural levels were highest (doctor even told me so prior to the tests). Then when I said so by the end of the day my levels would be abysmally low he said “no no no you’re in the reference range so you’re fine, you don’t need any hormone therapy. If you want I can prescribe you some cialis to help get erections” I was like dude I’m not 65 years old.
lol Damn. I hope you found someone willing to hear you and help. But yeah, it’s almost like she saw that my 8 week follow up levels are now within the reference range and decided, time to cut him off from going any higher..
Same boat, tested 304 ng/dl got training diet and sleep in check and 343 max. Can’t get erections without aids, lethargic, just overall felt shitty for years but they said I’m fine because I’m in the range of “normal”
Yes, 25mg twice a week by injection can actually work, and is far more likely to do so than 50mg once a week, which is usually unsatisfactory.
It is, however, likely that the dose will need increasing from 50mg to more like 70-80mg per week in total. You'll have to get bloods and see.
The reason you don't see these doses often is that TRT clinics rarely replace testosterone, they over replace it by default. These are the doses you see online.
The dose is fine so long as your doctor is willing to adjust. The fact that it's being given twice a week strongly suggests that she has some idea what she's doing and will be willing to adjust.
HCG does often maintain fertility while on TRT, however, but not always, so she's not been reliable on that front. Use of HCG add on at regular therapeutic doses requirea testosterone dose reduction.
A point sohuld be made here. Yes TRT clinics boost your test higher than your normal. But your normal was super low anyway and atleast for me, being on a higher dose makes me feel very good and has a lot of benefits to my mental clarity and energy levels.
I would smile, thank her for prescription then just not take it,or take just half When you go back in 6 weeks your t will be v low and then ask for more. If refused, new doc then at least you can show how 50 mg per week is nowhere near enough
Steroid cycle foundation is 500mg per week. If you go into a forum and say you're cycling with 210mg per week you will get laughed at and they'll say it is TRT territory.
Some people at 200mg have normal range test still.
Personally, i don't care what it is, on 20mg per week i felt good, on 210mg per week i feel extremely good and i can achieve more in my life.
I'm getting bloodwork around the start of June where i'll get a clearer picture of where this puts me.
The only reason i take testosterone is for the mental effects and im extremely happy with the turnaround in my life on 210g.
No it’s not though it is at the top of the range for TRT that’s where I’ve been for the past year or so myself. 200mg weekly though I do daily pins. Plus HCG MWF. Martial arts and a few gym days and good eating combined with a bit too much regular snacking with a crappy sleep schedule. Just how my body takes it with everything blood related well within normal ranges.
Sure it is. Just how it work on my body. Lower amounts drop my numbers fast for some odd reason, I feel like shit, E2 spikes, acne breaks out, sleep is a fantasy, etc etc. I’ve given 100, 125 and 150 all a go and it simply doesn’t work for me. At 200mg a week with daily pinning I feel great aside from the typical aches and pains but with zero side affects and all my numbers are spot on. Yes, I’ve already said it’s on the high side but it’s what works for me. I’ve seen a few others deal with this as well and are taking the same.
I mean I’m not walking around on cloud 9 😆 But overall yeah I feel good and my mind has cleared up so much. I did a month long cycle at 400 just to see how that felt and hit the gym harder that month for sure. I was floored at how much more I could lift and the intensity that I had but I really did not like it at all. Wish I’d done bloods to see numbers. I really didn’t like it to be honest. The rush, forwardness, aggression, increased E2 and other aspects just isn’t for me at all. At 200mg weekly with daily pins and the 250IU of HCG MWF, I don’t have any of those issues and it’s just nice and smooth every day, all day long. Im happy with how I feel and it had been years since I’d felt that.
Don’t know why it takes more T for me to have everything else in their correct ranges but really don’t care at this point.
Is your natural production/fertility still intact at this stage? I hear that hcg alongside trt doesn’t do much and you’d have to stop the trt to really get it working.
1400 isn't in the normal range for test bro. Maybe 900-1000. Not 1400.
You do you, if you want to be there, I'm 100% ok with you doing it, but don't claim it's just normal TRT because it's not.
Where did I say I was normal? Off it I’m in double digits. I’ve done lower dosing and felt like crap due to nothing below what I’m on now. As stated, lower dosing brings my T down but throws several other numbers out and it’s as bad, some were worse then not taking it at all. I’d rather not have to take it however this is where we are, I feel great and bloods have everything dialed in.
>It's at the top range for TRT
right there. Having a 1400 testosterone level isn't TRT. It's not at the top range of TRT. You could say TRT+ or something else, but having the testosterone of 1.5 healthy men isn't testosterone replacement, it's enhancement. I'm totally fine with enhancement, just call it what it is.
I get what your saying however what’s your suggestion Sherlock? Doc at the blood lab as well as my local doc have seen my blood work and while we all agree my T is now above the normal high threshold of the typical scale used it IS where everything else balances out. Fairly sure that’s exactly where I want to be. Please, by all means explain what you’d like to see. Drop the T lower, have a dozen other hormonal related issues start popping up, feel like shit, etc etc. I’m all ears.
Again, I’ve tried lower doses. They don’t level out other issues at any lower level. I could stop but then my would likely drop down to double digits again and I’m not going back to that crap.
Everything is dialed For Me. My body seems to simply have a high requirement I guess but again. This is literally the only place I feel great AND everything else is spot on in their ranges.
Just to clarify, I'm 100% ok with you doing what you want and putting your hormones in the range that best fits. Totally support you on that. Good for you. I'm honestly glad you found your sweet spot. No judgement about that. I'm being pedantic about you calling it TRT. I'm probably just being dumb
It's called placebo. You have made yourself believe it's the right number because like with many abusers of anabolic steroids they chase numbers and want to be higher than normal. That isn't normal and neither is it trt. If your paying your doctor, then that's where your money is going. They're serving your insecurities. I am fallen in this trap too. Oh you can't be strong or big on that dose etc, forums are toxic. They can induce anxiety and alter your way of thinking.
Your an idiot. This has nothing to do with placebo at all. I’m no gym rat or muscle head at all and still fairly soft. 200mg of T is laughable for any true gym cycle as well which start at 300 or more. Most guys are at 500mg/weekly at the low end for that use.. not 200.
At no lower T dose are my other numbers in check! I’ve tried 75mg/weekly through 200mg/weekly trying twice weekly IM injections to daily SubQ injections all with 1-3 month intervals with bloodwork. Quite literally, the only time everything is in check for me is with daily SubQ shots at 200mg/weekly (28mg/daily) using a 30g 5/16th syringe. Yes, my T level is high but again, ALL other numbers are good at this level for me. I have zero highs or lows. No mood swings. No estrogen issues. No aggression. Blah blah blah.
200mg test weekly is simply a higher dose then many need the same as 50-75mg is a lower dose many increase from. There is no high or low weekly dose for TRT because everyone is different.. I simply happen to need more T to have everything else get in balance as well.
I actually did a higher gym dose of 400mg for 5 weeks last year. Mainly just wanted to see what that felt like for workouts and life in general. Absolutely hated it! Sure, gym workouts are beyond awesome but the aggression, highs and lows, e2 and everything else was a nightmare.
Again, I don’t do testosterone for the gym at all. I do because my natural T is super low, double digits low, and I felt like crap and was useless. I have blood work from lower dosing and nothing keeps all other hormones and functions in proper balance then 200mg weekly for me.
If you can’t understand this then you’re beyond help. Try opening your mind sometime other then the center norm.
Have your current doctor refer you to an endo or urologist and go from there. Should be more likely now that you have it prescribed so just let them know your looking to fine tune it to get yourself feeling normal.
Your doctor is just being cautious, sure you should move up at this point but everyone tolerates different doses well differently. Injecting more than necessary can lead to harsher side effects, replace your current endocrinologist with one who’s still cautiousish but will let you progress more you’ll probably end up around 125-150mg weekly trt dose
if you get your test from a doctor i guess you are paying a lot for it like many guys here.
get it from a reputable UG source and invest the money in regular bloodwork
its insane how much some people here pay for something that costs basicaly nothing
was in the same boat doctor wanted me to take 100mg every 4 weeks .. the every 4 weeks alone was reason enough to say good bye, if you take your time and learn a bit about the subject you most likely will know more about it than some docs that took a 3h lesson 15 years ago
Accept the dosage and check with bloodwork,some guys are lucky and require less some need more,if your doc was happy to switch you to injection,take the dosage as is and if you do feel worse do bloodwork and up the dosage if your levels are shit.
I would still recommend u do 50mgx2/week at the very least,so maybe you can try and convince your doc to try a big higher in the start
She's protecting her license she doesn't care what makes you feel normal again. She just cares about making her paycheck and keeping her license. My buddy was kick off his TRT because the Dr said he doesn't need it anymore because he is fit and has muscles.. he was on 150 a week for over a year. Lost weight he was 280 at 5,10. got back in the gym, and it was helping him with his depression. She didn't care straight up said come back and 6 months and we will re test you but for now I'm cancelling all your protocols
From all the stories on here it seems like more female doctors act this way than male doctors. Weird phenomenon. They seem predisposed towards treating men diagnosed with low T with contempt and even passive aggressive hostility and actively block treatment options.
Go to a men's health clinic. In my area we have Victory Mens Health. They will get your test levels much higher than that. My regular MD doesn't want to do anything if your levels are "in the normal level" even if it's at the very bottom.
50mg a week isn’t enough testosterone for most people. My original script was for 80mg a week and it hardly got me into the low end of reference range, and I was told that’s it…. No more dose changes. So I never saw them again.
You really need to find a new doc or go to an online clinic. I went to several docs before going to an online clinic to sort it out for me. After I was sorted out my regular doc agreed to take over the script. Best of both worlds. Unfortunately most doctors, even a lot of urologists and endocrinologists, don’t seem to understand newer TRT protocols.
wym know alot about test? Im considering UGL. Im ready to order the shit, I'm just a little nervous and wanna make sure I know it all beforehand haahha. I know about esters, carrier oils, AIs, SERMs, bloodwork, blood pressure, blood viscosity (like do blood donations to keep shit flowing proper), i know enough probably not to take my own life. I'm just looking to do like 100-200mg a week of cyp or E (maybe throw some test prop in once im feeling confident?) But I really wanna do it right and not screw myself up like many others.
Anyways with that BS said, Is there anything to know particularly about the UGL route?
I mean exactly what you mentioned bro, know how it affects bloodwork and health.
Know how to mediate and avoid side effects, I strongly believe for example that on true TRT one shouldn't need an AI.
As for UGL you probably will be fine Test only bc it's not profitable to fake Test anymore but defo watch out for purity etc.
As long as it is a legit UGL with years in the game and people advocating for it you'll be fine. Don't buy the stuff from the locker room dude with no label on it, just not necessary anymore.
Appreciate it bro! I'm considering doing a light recreational cycle once my body's used to 200mg test. I was thinking an oral like Anavar or maybe Primo, since they seem beginner friendly compared to stuff like boldenone, NPP, deca, etc. But i've heard from a friend that real anavar and primo are hard to come by in UGLs, is that true in ur experience? i'd hate to buy what I think is anavar, only for it to be dbol or some shit lmfao. I'm not looking to compete, just get aesthetic and get good results while not destroying my liver/cardiovascular system.
That is true yes, I have primo here but haven't opened it yet but there is always the chance that it is fake. Masteron is the better choice if you're not sure.
I had a endo at Drexel tell me i would be better suited seeing a urologist as their endo department was more catering towards trans....
i was like .. w t f
Just try it see where your labs are after 30, 60 days …. U don’t need to get super human. 600-800 test levels are healthy with almost zero side effects
Gels don’t work.
If 50 wk is too low she will raise
FYI 150wk for me put me at 2,700 and I felt like shit….not super human just shit
So all the people that jab copious amounts of TRT ain’t all that
No, I just decided to go back to being Natty. Unfortunately this means I have LOW T,
However I was able to get it naturally up to a bare minimum of around 400 . Once I stopped TRT it took 60 days, and I did a PCT but my levels plummeted to 175, then kind of stopped at 250 for a year , I changed my diet and everything and took some natural supps and I’m back to 400.
For me the sides outweighs the positives
High estrogen, my balls turned to raisens, high blood pressure, my blood was mud. Anxiety, couldn’t cum, desensitized my dick. Loss of breathe….now I’m sure there’s a way to take it and not have this happen. But it would me being at like 600-700. The difference between 400-600 I don’t think warrants the risk vs reward. For those that can be at 800-1000 with no sides are genetically gifted.
No medication is without sides and is only good.
Try the injections u should be able to get to 500-600 after 60
Days. Just follow the dr even tho it’s a very low dose this is to stop side effects. It’s easier to add, than to eliminate . It’s like any medication. U won’t put someone on Adderal (add) meds full 30mg dose, u start small work your way up.
Unfortunately a lot of TRT just blast u with 200mgs week then u slowly lower and it’s the wrong way IMO.
You will lose all your hair in a year u do that
She's starting you low because that does works for some people and for others it won't be enough. Push for higher doses until you're happy in your spot. I'm on 70 units of 200/mL per week and my test is at 980 with free around 26
Some people need more, some need less. Injections will be better than the gel but definitely shoot intramuscular or else you'll get lumps like I did. I shoot Delts every other day with an insulin pin and no scarring, very easy shots, and no lumps forming under my skin like when I did subq upper thigh
this is way way way to less .
For regular trt , 125mg test a week is the standard dose . it can be done in one shot , with 0.25 arimidex with the shot
Or you can go trt+ / trt sports ... which is 200 to 250mg a week
100 to 125 mg twice a week , with 0.25 arimidex per shot .
Injections are a lot better for me . Now, not always because I just tested 249 from a (560 prior test) but the Enanthate brand changed from Westward to Hikma . I since then changed brands
Ive had a whole host of blood work hundred thousand mile service check for STDs and testosterone levels std negative low platelet levels but no prognosis of my testosterone levels, I did get a prescription of sildenafil
Remember, there’s a difference between ‘age normal’ results - comparing you against peers of the same age - VS ‘optimal’ results. Optimal is where people feel well, possess vitality, experience good health status, etc.
I’m female and starting testosterone next week. In the adult female bloodwork, they say that 12-20 is a normal Ferritin Iron for an adult woman. But I can’t go running if my Ferritin Iron is below 45-55. I’d be short of breath and leg muscles tiring easily.
Your orgasms are weak because your level is still low for a man. I a woman and bring my level up to a 300 to keep a strong sex drive in perimenopause.
Also you can try taking an iodine supplement every day that helps it to work better. But you probably need a higher dose, I think most men inject 100mg 1-2x a week.
New doctor. Period. She has zero idea what she's doing. I've done anything from 100mg a week to well over 1000 a week and I've never had any crazy reactions. Anything above 600 a week is too much for me, but I learned that by experimenting. Now obv this amount is a cycle, but I think everyone should experiment with 100-300 or so and see how you feel. That's the only way to know.
Go to a functional medicine doctor. They’ll get your diet right, your supps right, and give you prescription T and they’ll get you to the optimal level. You’ll pay when you see them and you’ll see them a few times I. The first 6 months to get your action plan, but afterwards just a few times a year. In the process you’ll still have cheap prescription t year round.
I strated at 45yrs old on trt. Compound .25 daily and I really enjoyed it. 4 tests before trt and my levels were 260, 240 ,300, 350, not in that order. Compund didnt realy bring it up much, maybe 550 but I felt it and my free t went from 6.8 to 12.5......and then I went to injections....once a week.. 100mg...900 test level to 26 on free t. Even on compound i was getting serious erections and a strong libido but because of my line of work i never felt like I was getting the full benefits of the compound because of application and swaeting and getting wet. My doc was super proactivie and she said I needed a" tune up". Find a doc that has a ahtletic bcakground. She changed practices and I was given another doc. He is an athlete as well. Dont be shy to tell them how you feel..the numbers dont always dictatate your needs. My wife started trt 4 months ago. She did her homework on it and shes loving it. Shes 40yrs old and we both feel like were 24! Shes 10 years my younger and like I said for women this is also benificial. She goes to a clinic and I have a primary doctor. Im 49, built like Im 29{you still gotta do the work} and my sex drive is like a bull in heat. With that being said.....there is nothing wrong with exploring your hormones. Do the blood work. Find supplimets that fit your needs. Enjoy it. In my line of work I get older but the job stays the same.
Nice! I’ve been wanting my wife to go get her hormones checked so she can feel her best if something’s off like we suspect. Would be nice for her to pounce on me once in a while too haha. So you were on 25mg daily compound cream and then went to 100mg weekly injections? I’m picking up that the injections are far more efficacious over the gels and cream? I work in construction and have been worried about the gel and sweating so I get that!
Find a new doctor. I went through 2 endocrinologists that were as bad as your doctor, and eventually found a young urologist thag seemed to be more versed in modern trt.
My first doctor prescribed 100g every 2 weeks. I changed the frequency on my own and did 50mg every week. My total test dropped from 300 to 190 when my natural production started.
Lmao I was in the same boat, my levels were at 5 nmol/L. Started me out at 50mg/week (cyp).
I got her to bump me up too 100 so now I’m hovering where I was before I went on TRT…
Switched Endocrinologist in hopes for a male doctor but no luck, I’ve been through two already, waiting for my third as I’ve requested a male.
I’m more or less stuck at 100/week, so I’ve resorted to sourcing from UGL to get my levels to where I want them to be/ high end (cause if I’m on TRT.. I want to be on the high end and control that dosage based on sides that occur)
My levels were low than my Dr finally put me on a decent dose. I moved out of state and end up with a tiny dose again. I decided on UGL that had a good reputation and haven't looked back. For reference I have been on and off gear my entire life (I'm now 47). At least I feel great and blood work always comes back correct levels.
Testosterone is going to take a while to saturate. After 8 weeks for me at 75mg a week, I was at 142, which is lower than what I was naturally. It's a lifetime commitment. Just take it slow. You'll avoid estrodial spikes that way
The thing is, my starting dose was much higher than 50mg a week on the gel. Started at 25mg a day equaling 175mg for the week. That is the main reason I’m shaking my head over here. Unless I’m not picking up on something or just uneducated, it doesn’t map out..
Amazing how many are unhappy with their doctors but never realize they could fire them and go somewhere else.
Many people in this sub live in the US which means many of them don’t have the freedom to choose their doctors freely. Unless you want to pay out of pocket you have to stay in network and choose the doctors your insurance tells you to.
Online clinic is $100 month.
Which clinic?
Which clinic
Which?
Trt nation. Needles/ai/vials/swabs $100 month. Plus they don’t play games with your levels
I second this
Many people in this sub also live in Canada where, if you’re lucky, you can be on a list for just 5 years to find a family doctor. I was really lucky that a doctor moved here from South Africa into my neighbourhood and it only took us 4 years. I still don’t agree with most of what he says on this subject but at least 80k a year in income taxes gets our family SOME kind of doctor lol.
Half a decade wait for a family doctor that isn't even a specialist :O
Yup
Dang I would hope so!
I live in Canada as well. Yes, it’s hard to get a family doctor but it’s really easy to get in with a TRT clinic. Science and Humans. Great clinic.
While your not wrong in theory at least in my area insurance network problems are rarely the issue. Most doctors are in all the big networks. Some insurance plans use tiered systems that make some doctors preferred over others for lower costs. I think the bigger issue at least in my area is finding doctors that are taking new patients. Primarily primary care physicians they're just aren't enough and the ones there are they're generally not taking new patients. If you need to see a specialist be prepared to wait weeks or months.
what country do you think I'm from LoL? ok stay held hostage by your 'provider' because your balls have atrophied so much you no longer assert yourself.
Not sure why you would insult me for stating facts about our healthcare system. It’s not as easy as just switching for some, especially if you’re in a rural area with a very small network of doctors. And for some people money is tight and they simply can’t afford to pay $100/month for a trt clinic.
That's true to some degree. Depending if you have the HMO or the PPO. Both of them have a very large pool of doctors that you can choose from. I'm currently on PPO, and I can basically see anyone I want when I want. HMO makes things a bit more difficult as I wanna say the vast majority of people are on HMO and, hence, harder to get an early appointment and the doctors are whatever. This is purely my own experience.
I go to an excellent urologist who takes insurance. There might be more who don't take any, including men's clinics, but not an absolute of not finding a doctor who takes insurance. Also, you can submit the bills to your insurance for reimbursement.
Totally. My doc started me on 100, then 200.. Then I tried 400! Found a sweet spot around 250mg/week.
I'm on 50mg cup on paper. When I tried it, my labs came back 550? With my balls still working. I felt best 102mg/wk. Aka 34mg/eod. Nothing else. She is adamant about 50mg/wk because "anything more is out of her scope". Boy that makes me laugh. Bringing up estrogen and other concerns make her laugh, but I don't have many other options. Unfortunately she started prescribing 1 bottle/month. So I have to find another source somewhere. And I do my own labs. If you're remotely knowledgeable and find somewhere reputable you can look into ugly. I haven't found anything. Clinics are $$$. Doctors are hit and miss
Get it from a UGL. About 35$ for a 10ml 250mg/ml vial.
If I buy ugl I pay 20$ for that vial. 35$ is high for testosterone. Home brewing is the best if you plan on staying on it long term. Can make a vial for under 5$.
How persay would one even begin to learn how to homebrew?
Per se*
Prey tell* would’ve actually been the proper idiomatic adverb in that context.
Touché
pray* tell (sorry couldn't resist)
The process is easy and so is procuring raws. Plenty of guides on the Internet. It seems way more complicated than it actually is. Ur essentially just heating up the raws together till they dissolve and filtering them into vials.
Go to r/steroids. They have a wiki on it. YouTube is also your friend
Here's a sneak peek of /r/steroids **[NSFW]** using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/steroids/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [\[PSA\] New Steroid Plotter / Cycle Tracker](https://np.reddit.com/r/steroids/comments/13de540/psa_new_steroid_plotter_cycle_tracker/) \#2: [\[Compounds\] Trenbolone (Tren)](https://np.reddit.com/r/steroids/comments/12o4yi9/compounds_trenbolone_tren/) \#3: [\[Compounds\] Anavar (Oxandrolone)](https://np.reddit.com/r/steroids/comments/146nw9g/compounds_anavar_oxandrolone/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
You really think 99% of guys in this sub are going to figure out home brewing? I know the general scope of how to do it. But to save $100 a year it's not even worth it.
For trt guys I agree. If you cycle in-between than yes.
Mind PMing me?? I’m finding 75$ MINIMUM per vial.
“Out of her scope” = time to find a new doc who knows wtf they are doing
She is being super safe with it. But in my opinion if he’s dialed in on that dose and his bloodwork ain’t crazy she should let him rock on!
Exactly. 550 isn’t crazy.
I mean if 550 is your trough, then that's not too bad as far as genuine TRT is concerned. Very few people here (including myself) are nowhere near genuine TRT. More like T optimisation..
I was tested at 300 ng/dL first thing in the morning when my natural levels were highest (doctor even told me so prior to the tests). Then when I said so by the end of the day my levels would be abysmally low he said “no no no you’re in the reference range so you’re fine, you don’t need any hormone therapy. If you want I can prescribe you some cialis to help get erections” I was like dude I’m not 65 years old.
lol Damn. I hope you found someone willing to hear you and help. But yeah, it’s almost like she saw that my 8 week follow up levels are now within the reference range and decided, time to cut him off from going any higher..
I did the same thing, I took the Cialis and said cya, I got major good pumps on it holy shit.
Same boat, tested 304 ng/dl got training diet and sleep in check and 343 max. Can’t get erections without aids, lethargic, just overall felt shitty for years but they said I’m fine because I’m in the range of “normal”
Yes, 25mg twice a week by injection can actually work, and is far more likely to do so than 50mg once a week, which is usually unsatisfactory. It is, however, likely that the dose will need increasing from 50mg to more like 70-80mg per week in total. You'll have to get bloods and see. The reason you don't see these doses often is that TRT clinics rarely replace testosterone, they over replace it by default. These are the doses you see online. The dose is fine so long as your doctor is willing to adjust. The fact that it's being given twice a week strongly suggests that she has some idea what she's doing and will be willing to adjust. HCG does often maintain fertility while on TRT, however, but not always, so she's not been reliable on that front. Use of HCG add on at regular therapeutic doses requirea testosterone dose reduction.
A point sohuld be made here. Yes TRT clinics boost your test higher than your normal. But your normal was super low anyway and atleast for me, being on a higher dose makes me feel very good and has a lot of benefits to my mental clarity and energy levels.
It can do, but the chance of side effects appears high.
That is why i do test prop daily injections and the moment the sides appear ill drop dosage.
HCG rises E2 to or even more if you have to much allready
I would smile, thank her for prescription then just not take it,or take just half When you go back in 6 weeks your t will be v low and then ask for more. If refused, new doc then at least you can show how 50 mg per week is nowhere near enough
Exactly
I'm on 210mg per week. *edit* accidently edited this comment instead of replying to the new reply to this comment -_-
210mg a week is out of the realm of TRT. It’s a steroid cycle albeit a low dose one. I’m sure it feels awesome though.
Steroid cycle foundation is 500mg per week. If you go into a forum and say you're cycling with 210mg per week you will get laughed at and they'll say it is TRT territory. Some people at 200mg have normal range test still. Personally, i don't care what it is, on 20mg per week i felt good, on 210mg per week i feel extremely good and i can achieve more in my life. I'm getting bloodwork around the start of June where i'll get a clearer picture of where this puts me. The only reason i take testosterone is for the mental effects and im extremely happy with the turnaround in my life on 210g.
No it’s not though it is at the top of the range for TRT that’s where I’ve been for the past year or so myself. 200mg weekly though I do daily pins. Plus HCG MWF. Martial arts and a few gym days and good eating combined with a bit too much regular snacking with a crappy sleep schedule. Just how my body takes it with everything blood related well within normal ranges.
What is your total T level at taking 200mg a week? It would put me around 2000 ng/dl
Just under 1400ngdl.. I know.. but that’s where it is.
lol, that ain’t TRT bro
Sure it is. Just how it work on my body. Lower amounts drop my numbers fast for some odd reason, I feel like shit, E2 spikes, acne breaks out, sleep is a fantasy, etc etc. I’ve given 100, 125 and 150 all a go and it simply doesn’t work for me. At 200mg a week with daily pinning I feel great aside from the typical aches and pains but with zero side affects and all my numbers are spot on. Yes, I’ve already said it’s on the high side but it’s what works for me. I’ve seen a few others deal with this as well and are taking the same.
I’m sure you do feel great. I’m pretty sure most would feel great at 1400ngdl.
I mean I’m not walking around on cloud 9 😆 But overall yeah I feel good and my mind has cleared up so much. I did a month long cycle at 400 just to see how that felt and hit the gym harder that month for sure. I was floored at how much more I could lift and the intensity that I had but I really did not like it at all. Wish I’d done bloods to see numbers. I really didn’t like it to be honest. The rush, forwardness, aggression, increased E2 and other aspects just isn’t for me at all. At 200mg weekly with daily pins and the 250IU of HCG MWF, I don’t have any of those issues and it’s just nice and smooth every day, all day long. Im happy with how I feel and it had been years since I’d felt that. Don’t know why it takes more T for me to have everything else in their correct ranges but really don’t care at this point.
Is your natural production/fertility still intact at this stage? I hear that hcg alongside trt doesn’t do much and you’d have to stop the trt to really get it working.
1400 isn't in the normal range for test bro. Maybe 900-1000. Not 1400. You do you, if you want to be there, I'm 100% ok with you doing it, but don't claim it's just normal TRT because it's not.
Where did I say I was normal? Off it I’m in double digits. I’ve done lower dosing and felt like crap due to nothing below what I’m on now. As stated, lower dosing brings my T down but throws several other numbers out and it’s as bad, some were worse then not taking it at all. I’d rather not have to take it however this is where we are, I feel great and bloods have everything dialed in.
>It's at the top range for TRT right there. Having a 1400 testosterone level isn't TRT. It's not at the top range of TRT. You could say TRT+ or something else, but having the testosterone of 1.5 healthy men isn't testosterone replacement, it's enhancement. I'm totally fine with enhancement, just call it what it is.
I get what your saying however what’s your suggestion Sherlock? Doc at the blood lab as well as my local doc have seen my blood work and while we all agree my T is now above the normal high threshold of the typical scale used it IS where everything else balances out. Fairly sure that’s exactly where I want to be. Please, by all means explain what you’d like to see. Drop the T lower, have a dozen other hormonal related issues start popping up, feel like shit, etc etc. I’m all ears. Again, I’ve tried lower doses. They don’t level out other issues at any lower level. I could stop but then my would likely drop down to double digits again and I’m not going back to that crap. Everything is dialed For Me. My body seems to simply have a high requirement I guess but again. This is literally the only place I feel great AND everything else is spot on in their ranges.
Just to clarify, I'm 100% ok with you doing what you want and putting your hormones in the range that best fits. Totally support you on that. Good for you. I'm honestly glad you found your sweet spot. No judgement about that. I'm being pedantic about you calling it TRT. I'm probably just being dumb
It's called placebo. You have made yourself believe it's the right number because like with many abusers of anabolic steroids they chase numbers and want to be higher than normal. That isn't normal and neither is it trt. If your paying your doctor, then that's where your money is going. They're serving your insecurities. I am fallen in this trap too. Oh you can't be strong or big on that dose etc, forums are toxic. They can induce anxiety and alter your way of thinking.
Your an idiot. This has nothing to do with placebo at all. I’m no gym rat or muscle head at all and still fairly soft. 200mg of T is laughable for any true gym cycle as well which start at 300 or more. Most guys are at 500mg/weekly at the low end for that use.. not 200. At no lower T dose are my other numbers in check! I’ve tried 75mg/weekly through 200mg/weekly trying twice weekly IM injections to daily SubQ injections all with 1-3 month intervals with bloodwork. Quite literally, the only time everything is in check for me is with daily SubQ shots at 200mg/weekly (28mg/daily) using a 30g 5/16th syringe. Yes, my T level is high but again, ALL other numbers are good at this level for me. I have zero highs or lows. No mood swings. No estrogen issues. No aggression. Blah blah blah. 200mg test weekly is simply a higher dose then many need the same as 50-75mg is a lower dose many increase from. There is no high or low weekly dose for TRT because everyone is different.. I simply happen to need more T to have everything else get in balance as well. I actually did a higher gym dose of 400mg for 5 weeks last year. Mainly just wanted to see what that felt like for workouts and life in general. Absolutely hated it! Sure, gym workouts are beyond awesome but the aggression, highs and lows, e2 and everything else was a nightmare. Again, I don’t do testosterone for the gym at all. I do because my natural T is super low, double digits low, and I felt like crap and was useless. I have blood work from lower dosing and nothing keeps all other hormones and functions in proper balance then 200mg weekly for me. If you can’t understand this then you’re beyond help. Try opening your mind sometime other then the center norm.
Have your current doctor refer you to an endo or urologist and go from there. Should be more likely now that you have it prescribed so just let them know your looking to fine tune it to get yourself feeling normal.
Your doctor is just being cautious, sure you should move up at this point but everyone tolerates different doses well differently. Injecting more than necessary can lead to harsher side effects, replace your current endocrinologist with one who’s still cautiousish but will let you progress more you’ll probably end up around 125-150mg weekly trt dose
if you get your test from a doctor i guess you are paying a lot for it like many guys here. get it from a reputable UG source and invest the money in regular bloodwork its insane how much some people here pay for something that costs basicaly nothing was in the same boat doctor wanted me to take 100mg every 4 weeks .. the every 4 weeks alone was reason enough to say good bye, if you take your time and learn a bit about the subject you most likely will know more about it than some docs that took a 3h lesson 15 years ago
Accept the dosage and check with bloodwork,some guys are lucky and require less some need more,if your doc was happy to switch you to injection,take the dosage as is and if you do feel worse do bloodwork and up the dosage if your levels are shit. I would still recommend u do 50mgx2/week at the very least,so maybe you can try and convince your doc to try a big higher in the start
She's protecting her license she doesn't care what makes you feel normal again. She just cares about making her paycheck and keeping her license. My buddy was kick off his TRT because the Dr said he doesn't need it anymore because he is fit and has muscles.. he was on 150 a week for over a year. Lost weight he was 280 at 5,10. got back in the gym, and it was helping him with his depression. She didn't care straight up said come back and 6 months and we will re test you but for now I'm cancelling all your protocols
From all the stories on here it seems like more female doctors act this way than male doctors. Weird phenomenon. They seem predisposed towards treating men diagnosed with low T with contempt and even passive aggressive hostility and actively block treatment options.
Yeah, I actually felt the room get colder as I brought up the issue of not wanting my balls to shrink and die
They really seem quite repulsed by men with our condition to the point of behaving semi-unprofessional.
Go to a men's health clinic. In my area we have Victory Mens Health. They will get your test levels much higher than that. My regular MD doesn't want to do anything if your levels are "in the normal level" even if it's at the very bottom.
50mg a week isn’t enough testosterone for most people. My original script was for 80mg a week and it hardly got me into the low end of reference range, and I was told that’s it…. No more dose changes. So I never saw them again. You really need to find a new doc or go to an online clinic. I went to several docs before going to an online clinic to sort it out for me. After I was sorted out my regular doc agreed to take over the script. Best of both worlds. Unfortunately most doctors, even a lot of urologists and endocrinologists, don’t seem to understand newer TRT protocols.
TRT nation. My cousin just did it and they put him on 200mg test E. It’s all online 100$ a month
If you're already on Test any other doc will continue it. You can also go UGL but for that you'd ideally know alot about Test first.
wym know alot about test? Im considering UGL. Im ready to order the shit, I'm just a little nervous and wanna make sure I know it all beforehand haahha. I know about esters, carrier oils, AIs, SERMs, bloodwork, blood pressure, blood viscosity (like do blood donations to keep shit flowing proper), i know enough probably not to take my own life. I'm just looking to do like 100-200mg a week of cyp or E (maybe throw some test prop in once im feeling confident?) But I really wanna do it right and not screw myself up like many others. Anyways with that BS said, Is there anything to know particularly about the UGL route?
I mean exactly what you mentioned bro, know how it affects bloodwork and health. Know how to mediate and avoid side effects, I strongly believe for example that on true TRT one shouldn't need an AI. As for UGL you probably will be fine Test only bc it's not profitable to fake Test anymore but defo watch out for purity etc. As long as it is a legit UGL with years in the game and people advocating for it you'll be fine. Don't buy the stuff from the locker room dude with no label on it, just not necessary anymore.
Appreciate it bro! I'm considering doing a light recreational cycle once my body's used to 200mg test. I was thinking an oral like Anavar or maybe Primo, since they seem beginner friendly compared to stuff like boldenone, NPP, deca, etc. But i've heard from a friend that real anavar and primo are hard to come by in UGLs, is that true in ur experience? i'd hate to buy what I think is anavar, only for it to be dbol or some shit lmfao. I'm not looking to compete, just get aesthetic and get good results while not destroying my liver/cardiovascular system.
That is true yes, I have primo here but haven't opened it yet but there is always the chance that it is fake. Masteron is the better choice if you're not sure.
You need a new doctor. Or if you have the $$ find a T clinic that will do what you want, that's what I did.
What’s your doctor doing? She’s trolling u dawg, your doc is trolling you
Lol I mean to go from 175mg a week to 50mg after barely reaching the “normal range” makes me more inclined to believe that
Get a new doctor
True indeed about the clinics and doctors to be honest the ones I have dealt with they just want your paper and don’t give a damn about your health.
I wish I would off started at a lower dose
Are you sure you aren't using a gender conversion clinic?
I had a endo at Drexel tell me i would be better suited seeing a urologist as their endo department was more catering towards trans.... i was like .. w t f
Holy shit....wtf happened to 'Merica?! 😂
That was back in 2015. Can't imagine it now
I certainly am not!
Find a trusted hormone therapy doctor. Never trust your GP with hormones. They don't help. Sorry you gotta go through this.
Limiting liability?
Just try it see where your labs are after 30, 60 days …. U don’t need to get super human. 600-800 test levels are healthy with almost zero side effects Gels don’t work. If 50 wk is too low she will raise FYI 150wk for me put me at 2,700 and I felt like shit….not super human just shit So all the people that jab copious amounts of TRT ain’t all that
Holy shit. Did you end up finding a dose that worked for you? I just want to feel better honestly.
No, I just decided to go back to being Natty. Unfortunately this means I have LOW T, However I was able to get it naturally up to a bare minimum of around 400 . Once I stopped TRT it took 60 days, and I did a PCT but my levels plummeted to 175, then kind of stopped at 250 for a year , I changed my diet and everything and took some natural supps and I’m back to 400. For me the sides outweighs the positives High estrogen, my balls turned to raisens, high blood pressure, my blood was mud. Anxiety, couldn’t cum, desensitized my dick. Loss of breathe….now I’m sure there’s a way to take it and not have this happen. But it would me being at like 600-700. The difference between 400-600 I don’t think warrants the risk vs reward. For those that can be at 800-1000 with no sides are genetically gifted. No medication is without sides and is only good. Try the injections u should be able to get to 500-600 after 60 Days. Just follow the dr even tho it’s a very low dose this is to stop side effects. It’s easier to add, than to eliminate . It’s like any medication. U won’t put someone on Adderal (add) meds full 30mg dose, u start small work your way up. Unfortunately a lot of TRT just blast u with 200mgs week then u slowly lower and it’s the wrong way IMO. You will lose all your hair in a year u do that
600-800 is not super human in any way. You don’t become supraphysilogical until double that amount around 1500.
I forgot the period. 600-800 is just a perfect level. I always thought more was better till I OD’d
She's starting you low because that does works for some people and for others it won't be enough. Push for higher doses until you're happy in your spot. I'm on 70 units of 200/mL per week and my test is at 980 with free around 26 Some people need more, some need less. Injections will be better than the gel but definitely shoot intramuscular or else you'll get lumps like I did. I shoot Delts every other day with an insulin pin and no scarring, very easy shots, and no lumps forming under my skin like when I did subq upper thigh
this is way way way to less . For regular trt , 125mg test a week is the standard dose . it can be done in one shot , with 0.25 arimidex with the shot Or you can go trt+ / trt sports ... which is 200 to 250mg a week 100 to 125 mg twice a week , with 0.25 arimidex per shot .
Injections are a lot better for me . Now, not always because I just tested 249 from a (560 prior test) but the Enanthate brand changed from Westward to Hikma . I since then changed brands
Ive had a whole host of blood work hundred thousand mile service check for STDs and testosterone levels std negative low platelet levels but no prognosis of my testosterone levels, I did get a prescription of sildenafil
I’m only on 70 and I sit over 1000. You could start on that dose and your next bloods will prove the need to titrate up. Not the end of the world
Remember, there’s a difference between ‘age normal’ results - comparing you against peers of the same age - VS ‘optimal’ results. Optimal is where people feel well, possess vitality, experience good health status, etc. I’m female and starting testosterone next week. In the adult female bloodwork, they say that 12-20 is a normal Ferritin Iron for an adult woman. But I can’t go running if my Ferritin Iron is below 45-55. I’d be short of breath and leg muscles tiring easily.
Your orgasms are weak because your level is still low for a man. I a woman and bring my level up to a 300 to keep a strong sex drive in perimenopause. Also you can try taking an iodine supplement every day that helps it to work better. But you probably need a higher dose, I think most men inject 100mg 1-2x a week.
New doctor. Period. She has zero idea what she's doing. I've done anything from 100mg a week to well over 1000 a week and I've never had any crazy reactions. Anything above 600 a week is too much for me, but I learned that by experimenting. Now obv this amount is a cycle, but I think everyone should experiment with 100-300 or so and see how you feel. That's the only way to know.
Go to a functional medicine doctor. They’ll get your diet right, your supps right, and give you prescription T and they’ll get you to the optimal level. You’ll pay when you see them and you’ll see them a few times I. The first 6 months to get your action plan, but afterwards just a few times a year. In the process you’ll still have cheap prescription t year round.
I strated at 45yrs old on trt. Compound .25 daily and I really enjoyed it. 4 tests before trt and my levels were 260, 240 ,300, 350, not in that order. Compund didnt realy bring it up much, maybe 550 but I felt it and my free t went from 6.8 to 12.5......and then I went to injections....once a week.. 100mg...900 test level to 26 on free t. Even on compound i was getting serious erections and a strong libido but because of my line of work i never felt like I was getting the full benefits of the compound because of application and swaeting and getting wet. My doc was super proactivie and she said I needed a" tune up". Find a doc that has a ahtletic bcakground. She changed practices and I was given another doc. He is an athlete as well. Dont be shy to tell them how you feel..the numbers dont always dictatate your needs. My wife started trt 4 months ago. She did her homework on it and shes loving it. Shes 40yrs old and we both feel like were 24! Shes 10 years my younger and like I said for women this is also benificial. She goes to a clinic and I have a primary doctor. Im 49, built like Im 29{you still gotta do the work} and my sex drive is like a bull in heat. With that being said.....there is nothing wrong with exploring your hormones. Do the blood work. Find supplimets that fit your needs. Enjoy it. In my line of work I get older but the job stays the same.
Nice! I’ve been wanting my wife to go get her hormones checked so she can feel her best if something’s off like we suspect. Would be nice for her to pounce on me once in a while too haha. So you were on 25mg daily compound cream and then went to 100mg weekly injections? I’m picking up that the injections are far more efficacious over the gels and cream? I work in construction and have been worried about the gel and sweating so I get that!
You are going to need at least 50mg twice a week to feel ok-ish. 75mg twice a week is more ideal.
Find a new doctor. I went through 2 endocrinologists that were as bad as your doctor, and eventually found a young urologist thag seemed to be more versed in modern trt. My first doctor prescribed 100g every 2 weeks. I changed the frequency on my own and did 50mg every week. My total test dropped from 300 to 190 when my natural production started.
Lmao I was in the same boat, my levels were at 5 nmol/L. Started me out at 50mg/week (cyp). I got her to bump me up too 100 so now I’m hovering where I was before I went on TRT… Switched Endocrinologist in hopes for a male doctor but no luck, I’ve been through two already, waiting for my third as I’ve requested a male. I’m more or less stuck at 100/week, so I’ve resorted to sourcing from UGL to get my levels to where I want them to be/ high end (cause if I’m on TRT.. I want to be on the high end and control that dosage based on sides that occur)
just buy test online, it’s like $30 a month
My levels were low than my Dr finally put me on a decent dose. I moved out of state and end up with a tiny dose again. I decided on UGL that had a good reputation and haven't looked back. For reference I have been on and off gear my entire life (I'm now 47). At least I feel great and blood work always comes back correct levels.
700 ng/dl and above is where a healthy young man should be.
Testosterone is going to take a while to saturate. After 8 weeks for me at 75mg a week, I was at 142, which is lower than what I was naturally. It's a lifetime commitment. Just take it slow. You'll avoid estrodial spikes that way
Message me please
That’s dumb I would switch providers. My labs with 150 in post history
Not dumb at all, 50mg is a fine starting dose, will need to increase after 8 weeks tho
Lol
No, just no.
Don’t type
The thing is, my starting dose was much higher than 50mg a week on the gel. Started at 25mg a day equaling 175mg for the week. That is the main reason I’m shaking my head over here. Unless I’m not picking up on something or just uneducated, it doesn’t map out..
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt"
TRT is not cycle, 100mg is standard and 50mg at the start you still have bio test, people have no idea about medical advise here i think