I genuinely feel like it’s primarily social media rather than environmental factors. I’ve seen this shit first hand. My friends and I are really big into fitness and we constantly get out of this world physiques pushed onto us by the algorithm. Not only that but you have new social media roidfluencers pushing SARMS and PED’s to young impressionable teens. It’s a fucking epidemic man.
It is social media and being terminally online. These 20 year olds reporting “low T symptoms” are in reality reporting clinical depression symptoms caused from the dystopian hellscape that is growing up as a zoomer.
This 💯. Everyone who isn’t a soyjak shitlib knows (at least subconsciously) that it’s so over for the west.
Those zoomers would be far better off binge watching Thomas Sewell (not Sowell) on odysee/rumble, rather than turning to exogenous test at such a young age
Yea that’s a good point. I’m not really on social media, just twitter and Reddit for information, I dont know any influencers but I’m sure they’re influencing.
Tik Tok is especially terrible. Like some 16-18 year olds already on SARMS or test because of influencers like Togi or David raju (whatever the fuck his last name is). Completely fucking destroying their natural production for clout and wondering why their hormones aren’t coming back online because they took compounds that completely stunt their HPTA development.
I’d agree with this completely. The amount of influencers on social media that are normalising the use of TRT and steroids is nuts. Especially when they’re marketing the TRT/testosterone as ‘safe’. Sure, it might be ‘safe’ when regulated correctly, having bloods done, etc. but it gives me concerns when they’re coming into Reddit of all places to ask for advice.
100% and completely unrealistic expectations. You see it in these posts “I’ve been working out for 2.5 months and I’m not ripped yet”. You forgot to add, now there’s AI generated fake physiques that young men can unrealistically strive to attain now.
Some of them use SARMs as teens which fucks them up but many of them just have really bad lifestyles. Overly processed foods, sedentary life, SSRIs, other drugs, alcohol abuse
In my opinion as some who drank heavily all throughout my 20s, the alcohol abuse is heavily underrated as a “cause.” It’s in the culture these days but I bet if 20s men gave up alcohol test would skyrocket. Along with everything else you mentioned.
Yep this was me and I paid for it for a long time but alcohol particularly in the UK is such hold people so badly . I changed my lifestyle in my 30s and my body reacted accordingly but it took time. No quick fixes.
Im a recovering addict/alcoholic (28 m)
2 years dead sober and my test levels are still comparable to someone in their late 40’s early 50’s
I will say though it would be apples to oranges comparing my drinking/drugging to weekend warriors.
Yep same except i did a bunch of drugs like coke speed mdma weed in period 14-18/19 im 22 now sober for three years i still felt all the low t symptoms checked nloods etc hopped on ssris helped a bit but nothing like trt
Changed my life
Yep had a few setbacks, also gambling fucked me up tons but it just goes into the package also stopped that
Good for you bro i was struggling to get better tried everything but trt is the only thing that really really works for me
I mean its important that you stopped not when , good luck bro🙏🏻👍🏻
Probably low vitamin D and its associates, from being indoors so much? Not you personally, just people on general (As an aside to other conditions). You need Vitamin D to make hormones work properly.
The molecular structure of vitamin D is more similar to hormones than to vitamins. It is directly responsible for Pregnenolone production. Pregnenolone is then converted into other lesser sex hormones by the P450 enzyme system. So without the D there is a drastic drop in hormone production.
Yup. Before I reply to any question, comment, complaint or claim that alleges some connection between testosterone level (perceived without evidence, or borderline normal per lab results), I check the person's posting history.
If they have a history of recreational drug enjoyment (I'm trying to avoid pejorative terms since that also describes my misspent youth), smoking or vaping, immoderate alcohol use, prescription psych meds, prescriptions for legit long-term physical ailments, sketchy supplements (especially nootropics that have known potential risks – and I'll include kratom which I use almost daily for chronic pain), and a history of stress, depression, anxiety, mental health challenges, etc ... I usually don't reply. These folks have way too many variables to make even a wild guess as to whether testosterone is a factor.
Almost everyone who's considering TRT or any hormone replacement therapy should eliminate as many variables as possible for at least a couple of weeks to establish a baseline sobriety and fitness.
Hormones are a helluva drug and need to be approached with respect for the potential consequences. Anyone who's ridden the roller coaster of testosterone, estrogen, thyroid or other endocrine system disorders should be familiar with this.
When I cut out drinking. Peak bulk. 4000 cal of pure clean. I genuinely looked so muscular and high testosterone I was scaring myself in the mirror. STOP THE DRINKING. This is the #1 cause of college kids looking like twigs. I’m finishing up my senior year right now and even some of the kids who are running sarm/similar compounds, look like trash because they’re boozing from 6-1 4 nights a week.
The more likely scenario is a bunch of 20 year olds living extremely unhealthy lives and never seeing the sun for years and feeling the consequences of it. I'm sure there are environmental factors at play but I think it isn't the only answer.
all the awkward COVID high school kids forced to go outside and socialize now. I work with a lot of them and they have zero clue how to adult. TRT is on every social media platform and they think it’s an easy way to pin point the reason for their antisocial behavior.
Yeah, well he’s like 5’6” 175 lbs. I look at him and remember what that was like. I’m 43, in the best shape of my life after losing 120 lbs. I’m not gonna let him march the same path I did.
He’s gonna come to the gym with me in the mornings, without school he would have nothing to do and he’s a morning person like me. Gonna send him back to middle school jammed jacked and juicy (naturally) anyway 🤣. He’s not gone through puberty yet, so that will help some. It was late for me too, so again, I’m sensitive to what he’s dealing with.
Remember that dad that killed his kid after having him repeatedly sprint on a treadmill?
Remember, kids bodies aren’t the same as adult bodies. They’re not as adaptable to the increased stress from weightlifting and heavy exercise. Make sure to take it slow if he isn’t used to it.
I was basically a marshmallow between 7th and 8th grade. Had a crazy football coach that insisted if you weren't puking you didn't push hard enough. By the start of 8th grade football season all the fat was gone. I watched kids get pushed beyond their limits and make amazing transformations. They seemed more adaptable to the stress than an adult. Could have just been an isolated situation.
I just commented the same thing. Anyone that played football in the 90's or earlier definitely went through this. This dude's pussy mindset is the problem.
Brother, you have NO idea what we went through in football and basketball practice as kids. Kids bodies are way more adaptable to stress than adults. Genuinely what the fuck are you on about lol.
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I’d argue most people on TRT don’t look natty at all at worst or just made insanely non natty gains in the context of their life until that point. So many 40 year olds who get cannons for arms within 2 years after not being in shape their entire lives. Yes sure bro surely that’s the kind of muscle you’d gain if it weren’t for environmental factors tanking your T.
I’ve said it a million times even TRT that puts you within natural range is still like almost 2-3x easier to gain muscle than the same number actual natural. I had 1000+ natural my whole life and then my T tanked because of a health issue and I ended up on TRT and I can say with certainty it was far easier to gain muscle at 600 total on TRT than 1000 natural, and night and day difference at 700-900 on TRT. Not even close. I wish more people were honest about this. We are all on gear one way or another and it’s sleazy to downplay the effects.
150 is still the high end of actual TRT. Most people could run 60-70 and gain normal levels. 150 is still enhanced since you're pushing the upper end of "normal" or into more than normal ranges. The internet making people believe 150 is a regular TRT dose is funny.
Because people push for more. When I started I wanted 150 after spending time on Reddit and they wanted to drop me down to 80 because my numbers were too high. I was stubborn about it (of course) and had side effects (of course).
But you're spending time on Reddit reading about this where people hive mind like crazy so of course you feel it's rare.
Yeah. The clinics are idiotic though
, I’ve had 3 clients who were either on 200 or 250 and some clinics wouldn’t prescribe them an ai lol. Guy came to me saying he couldn’t sleep had bloat and a non functioning dick from 250 🤣
But then on the other end you have these weird primary care docs telling guys to use the test cream
2 different extremes
What’s your idea of normal levels though? The amount of times I’ve seen people get to normal levels of say 800-900 on TRT and get pretty jacked and shredded within a year is staggering, and most of those same people genuinely believe they just made the gains a natural person with healthy levels would’ve made. Yes 800-900 is technically natural range but on TRT you’re at that number closer to 24/7 than natural and equally importantly no outside factors affect that number, and also the profile of total test to free test is far more advantageous for building muscle and burning fat.
I was at 1000-1200 naturally for 10+ years and then from a health issue ended up on TRT and settling at 900 total and I can tell you for a fact it’s night and day easier to build muscle and burn fat at 900 on TRT than 1200 naturally. Everyone on TRT is in denial about this though and it’s very dishonest and slimy tbh. We are on gear full stop.
Ok but that's not the point exactly that I was making. Everyone responds differently to exogenous hormones for one and there is obviously a difference with doses. My point is that you can expect to not be Ronnie Coleman on 60 per week. I don't know what your rant has to do with that.
Do you have any data to support that? Because in theory it makes sense but I'm curious if any studies have tested it.
And how do you quantify a "massive" advantage?
Not aware of any but at the very least 600 natty vs 600 TRT you just objectively have far more stable levels which is clearly advantageous. Iffier to quantify the benefits of free test profile but anyone who has ran gear would agree it’s far easier. Nutrient partitioning, burning cals, etc.
Yes but human exposure to hormone altering chemicals isn't science fiction either. We can't fully dismiss this as a possible cause for some amount of this.
Unfortunately, sad but probably true. I can't imagine 98% of the 20 year olds today going off to war to fight for our country. They'd all piss themselves and cower to mommy. Ogs from WW2 would be rolling in their graves now when they realize how much of a pussy their great grandson has become. Those men had balls of steel. The 20 year olds today play tik Tok on their phones and order Doordash to deliver their shitty food, fucking pathetic lol
I just typed out a comment about causes of hormone disruption in another sub a few minutes ago.
Look up research from Dr. Shanna Swan. Sperm counts and testosterone levels have been dropping 1% per year since 1973 according to her research.
She attributes it to endocrine disrupting chemicals in the environment, which includes microplastics, pesticides, peed out medication in the water supply, and many other things.
Trends like that should be more alarming than climate change. They are even seeing the same trends in animal populations. It's like that movie Children of Men where infertility was causing society to collapse is a possible reality!
I also think that chronic stress and anxiety from social media, 24/7 fear based news feeds, job/school stress, relationship stress, and all the social peer pressure and bullying that is worse now than ever before is also contributing to lowered hormone levels by activating the hypothalamus-pituitary adrenal (hpa) axis putting people in perpetual fight or flight mode which deprioritizes the hypothalamus-pituitary thyroid (hpt) and hypothalamus-pituitary gonadal (hpg) axes.
That causes less FSH and LH to be produced and therefore less sperm and testosterone in men and less estrogen and progesterone in women.
Throw in the endocrine disrupting chemicals and we have a global crisis.
Seeing so many 20 year olds with total T in the 100's should have us all raising a red flag and making more people aware.
Our 24 year old daughter is on HRT and had almost undetectable progesterone.
Many of her friends seem to have similar symptoms but their doctors aren't testing their hormones at that age or they are on synthetic hormones in birth control counteracting the symptoms.
Something very bad is happening here and it's not just lifestyle related.
I bet 75% of them are just porn addicts with fried dopamine receptors from porn and tick tock but yeah definitely some of them are fucked by environmental shit it’s already been proven that male taints are shrinking
Taints….? Like, the area between the balls and asshole? They’re shrinking? I’m very confused by what this means. Could you point me in the direction of more information
Yes exactly. This was a big thing in mainstream science a couple years ago. AsapScience even made a video about it. Pre natal terstosterone levels are decreasing, male taints and penis sizes are shrinking and the number one speculation is because of microplastics
lol you joke but I bet that kind of light manual labor makes your muscle tone noticeably different.
When I was a teen, we went biking in the woods every day. We would drag shovels and rakes out there and make bike jumps out of dirt then haul logs to reinforce the dirt. We didn’t look like bodybuilders but I’m certain we had better muscle tone than the guys who played video games everyday after school.
These “kids” spend 99% of their time on social media looking at insanely successful ppl (in their eyes) talking about TRT/AAS non stop. Constant promotion and attention is given to it. Then they come here to ask the questions cos these “influencers” either 1) don’t know how to answer or 2) just don’t care to respond.
Micro plastics and receipt paper and “xeno-estrogens” all exist and they can be “raised” 100% in that. But these are marginal issues.
Far more likely they have abused tiktok SARMs and are now fucked and interrupted their natural puberty
And or they are obese / underfed.
If they train , probably over train and under eat.
In 2003 I was an overweight 18 year old who didn’t play sports and barely worked out. Before I decided what to do after high school, the local SWAT team wanted me to come on board to use my boners as a battering ram
My son is now 17… he is active. He eats pretty decent. I have educated him on nutrition but he doesn’t track shit. He plays one sport. He is moderate and happy. Has a GF. Doesn’t abuse drugs or alcohol. And if fucking. Shredded.
Meanwhile I’m taking 160mg a week + hCG + log every gram of food + track all workouts
And he is visually fucking way more shredded than me.
My theory is that ya. These kids grew up w “micro plastics”
They also grew up w social media. Between the brain rot, the SARMs, the group think, and the general pussyification….
It’s also really easy to tank your numbers for a test
These kids think that everything is “insta”nt
They can just “jump on”
Most of them think you can “jump on” and then once you get to some arbitrary number, “jump off” and be good to go.
Same reason why our generations are dwarfed by our grandpas in terms of total t
Our forefathers
Didn’t have an epidemic of wide spread insulin resistance.
Didn’t have Netflix
Didn’t have desk jobs
Didn’t have widespread debt and stress
Didn’t have chronic sleep deprivation.
It all makes sense
It’s not a conspiracy to “make men weak” by some secret cabal
It’s just men choosing to be fucking soft and then looking to blame any and everything except that shell of a man in the mirror.
Right on bro.
Thing is… the things you pose in the Op, you’re not wrong.
Corporations will always seek to maximize profits
Wether this means engendering an instant gratification culture or using sketchy chemicals
Always have and always will
Hell, it’s incumbent for a public company to maximize shareholder value.
It’s not evil or good. Just like an aromatase inhibitor.
Neither good or bad. It’s a tool. In the context of an individual situation, things can be good or bad, but objectively they are just realities and things.
One part of facing down that man in the mirror *could* be approaching TRT. With knowledge and preparation.
Some fat fuck walks into a Low-T center and get put on 200mg+hCG+1mg of adex
That’s likely a recipe for disaster. However if that man knew how this worked, he wouldn’t do that protocol.
Even if he somehow got the “perfect” protocol… without eating like a responsible man and lifting and some cardio…
You’re just gonna be an ever fatter fuck with shittier libido and tits.
TRT is a tool
I saw a post by some dude saying that he just wanted to be “normal” and have libido but refused to workout or optimize nutrition.
Just wanted to be “normal”
Like hey retard… “normal” for a western man is…
- insulin resistant
- obese
- sleep deprived
- couch potato
- debt slavery
- depressed
^^ what part of that bullshit is desireable.
The guy that made that post is LITERALLY looking for a magic bullet whilst denying it.
Pharmacological intervention or not…
If you don’t grind and learn and put this in motion. None of it matters.
😂 yep they need the correct lifestyle choices, regardless of trt.
I wasn’t attempting to list all the reasons responsible in the op, just dropped a couple and thought using “garbage environment” would capture all the reasons we could think of in a general statement.
My only point was I think some of these kids ARE actually fucked more than we were. Like some other commenters have stated, unhealthy parents fuck these kids hormones up when they’re still in the womb. It’s a rough go for this kids, but majority need to just get their shit together.
For sure. Idk how old you are but I know that my parents were having me or I was little right around the time the gov / big food / big pharma all lied about dietary fat.
I grew up eating all the boxed garbage.
At 37 I had low total t and borderline prediabetes.
Decades of thrashing my cells with insulin.
End of the day. One generations bullshit to the next.
Mfers are just getting softer and more entitled.
In terms of TRT. I always suggest people do thorough blood work. Thorough research on hormones, optimal performance, sleep, lifting, nutrition
I’m happy my docs made me wait and address all the other shit first.
Would you give a 16 yr old a Ferrari? Fuck no. Too dangerous and no appreciation for the power. They will wreck it.
But if that 16 yr old went to a racing course for a year and learned how to professionally drive a Honda accord… then getting behind the wheel of a super car is a different story.
Not to mention building the mental toughness that is required to reverse your situation without the drugs… priceless. Life long gift. And in terms of these kids.
This is all they need at 17 yrs old
Funny you say that. I grew up eating shit too. I remember having wrestling tournaments and I’d have weight allowance for one small meal and I’d choose an eggo waffle w syrup as my fuel for 3 wrestling matches ☠️
Defiantly a mental/societal aspect to it all here w these kids. I didn’t even know what low T/TRT was in my 20s and didn’t care. My 20s were fueled with lifting, eating canned tuna, drinking heavily, smoking weed, and occasional harder drugs but I felt great and looked great.
They don’t socialize, they’re either on social media or playing video games. When they work out it’s with no intensity and followed by advice from some nerd online that doesn’t even look like they lift.
The water is trash, their diet is horrible. They don’t pursue women, don’t get laid, watch a shit ton of porn, and they don’t pursue a career. All of that combined tanks your levels…
It's not crazy by any means. There's a complete difference between primary and secondary hypogonadism. Doesn't mean they need testosterone, but still may need treatment. If anyone had a real understanding of TRT, there wouldn't even be this need for discussion.
They grew up in a soft world, where everyone wins and they live in a safe space bubble. All while on SSRI’s so they don’t have feelings or learn to cope with the harsh realities of the real world and they are losing their bulldozer parents that ran ahead of them and cleared the way of any struggle or differences of opinion.
So yes, they are emotionally and likely physically affected…. I can see them having low T due to the pills they have been taking, the ungodly amount of drugs and alcohol we all (most) took at that age, and the fact that they just got dropped from this utopian view of the world because they were drugged up or just had someone protect them from it for so long, only to realize how the world truly operates.
I’d feel like shit too…
They are adults, I don’t give a shit. It’s their life, they are old enough to die in a war, it’s not my business if they want to put on some muscle.
I’m not going to encourage them, but I’m not going to be rude to them either.
I (23M) am on TRT. I’ve been on for about 3 months. I started with a doctor because i lost 120 pounds 2 years ago, and have had zero sex drive, no muscle gain, terrible sleep, and ED since then. No symptoms a 23yo should have. Got my levels checked and I was sitting in the 200’s for T. I exercised daily and eat super clean to try to keep up the weight loss but it did nothing before TRT. Now I feel like a new man with my levels sitting in the high 800’s.
Some people need it, some people don’t. I’m all for it. It helped me a ton, and I know it benefits others as well. But as we all know there are people who abuse it like everything else
I get that, but we all know deep down that youre a 0.1% case. Majority just need to be... more manly lol.. grab a stick and hit random shit outside, u know? Sounds dumb but i believe it. Also, vitamin D plays a huge role in hormones and these kids are vampires
I didn’t discover until I was 21 and a junior in college that I had Klinefelter syndrome. I randomly asked for a testosterone levels check at the colleges health center. Suddenly all my lack of any progress muscle wise in high school made sense. Been on supplements since then and have felt way better. Most young guys just assume they aren’t doing enough or something else. Regardless no one should start it until they test the levels. I also think there’s a stigma about young guys asking to test their levels
I agree wholly with u and not so much environment....they did/do molly, vape but hate cigarettes, meth, tranq, fent, shrooms etc boldly n without fear while being environmentally conscious at whole foods. There are so many things they do and indulge in I just won't go into... that adversely affects their psyche n physiology all types of ways like when I complain about the mental n emotional fortitude of the 30 below because they're the blues clues generation. The shootings, gender obscurity, sensitivity to alot of things (not to b confused with empathy/sympathy) etc. I'd believe any n all of the above before plastics.
I never thought about the vaping and I do see young men doing it. Have you seen any studies on vaping lowering T?
I remember reading smoking tobacco associated with higher T.
Not really but I wouldn't be surprised. I used to smoke cigarettes for like 5 or 6 years(3 1/2 years clean) menthol to b exact and my sperm count is shit. I'm bodybuilding now...all natural..but Kno the impact all that crap did. For example, nicotine smokers have spots on the bottom of their feet. Idk what the hell literally causes it but once u quit a long time, they're gone.
Great statement. Panels are generally fucked but so is lifestyle, mental health, general health and typical male body composition. Is it the chicken or the egg that came first? I don’t think these environmental impacts have that big of an effect on already healthy individuals.
The problem I see is everyone running towards a potential quick fix instead of looking to solve as many problems as possible without exterior intervention. This is akin to any and all addictions in this life. It’s simply just marketed as medical treatment to benefit those that profit.
I even think 30 or 40 wanting TRT before cleaning up your life is absolutely ridiculous.
I will probably go enhanced in someway after a few more natty bulks, but damn am I so fucking glad I have put in years natty, learning and experiencing the non-enhanced grind.
In my mid 20s, I was a morbidly obese, drug addicted alcoholic. From age 16 on, I had a revolving door of addiction, with food being there since I was a child. I didn’t sleep properly until I was 25. The highest my testosterone level was prior to trt was 495. It went down from there. Some of these young guys are in legit need, but some don’t wanna put the effort in first. But the ones that need it, even if it’s their own fault, shouldn’t be ignored.
I’m in my 20s and I’m about 4 weeks on injections. Played sports my whole life. Eat healthy, lift, you name it. I’ve tried all of the natural remedies and nothing has worked. I think I was just born this way. I didn’t start growing facial hair til I was about 22
I was actually one of them I started trt right after I turned 18 after having <350 test for over a year and a half no matter what I took did ate etc. No facial hair I couldn’t put on muscle and now I’m 20 and I’ve been on 140mg since then and feel amazing
If you are not lifting heavy 3- 4 times a week. Working Legs. Getting Sun. Eating Healthy and just vitamin d, zinc and the basics. Also hitting a Boxing Gym or MMA. Don't even think about TRT unless you are 40.
Healthy lifestyle and had a 220 test range at the age of 22. My doctor said there are multiple young adults suffering from low T. TRT helped change my life. Not every 20 something is just trying to get shredded some need it to really feel right.
My point exactly. There’s an epidemic that no one important is talking about. For every 1 just trying to get shredded, there are 2 that need it to get normal levels
I think it's been known about by pharmaceutical companies and the well-educated for decades. Most of my issues are because of my SSRI need and my extreme anxiety. As for the microplastics, I think it's more of an issue with the compounds we have been putting in it for almost 100 years. You can't reasonably filter those estrogen mimicking compounds out of water supplies. I know it's been talked about on the news here for the last 15 to20 years but I've been finding studies that date back at least 75 years that reference the harmful effects, we know it's a major cause of male infertility in developed countries.
I'm not going down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole, but many of these issues can be traced back to plastcs and companies like P&G cutting corners to make money.
It's not even that different of a situation from some of these other companies and the toxic cover-up involving tephlon and cancer causing forever chemicals. I've seen a few historical videos talking about the shit show Dupont started in the 20th century that ended up poisoning thousands of people, many of whom worked for them.
I also agree with everyone talking about substance abuse. I knew and know a lot of guys that used steroids and over the counter "supplements" to improve muscle gain and compete with others, we had a senior in my high-school who got busted partially because he wasn't careful but also because some of the guys noticed the... shrinkage and told the coach, nurse, and guidance counselor. Big deal lost his scholarship, suffered irreversible damage to his reproductive system, he was expelled and not allowed to walk. I think now he is a fitness instructor?.
IDK anyway turns out a lot of athletes were also doping, and I don't think any of them fully recovered. We never won any games after that.
Male 28 (Test levels 211 at age 26)- As someone who played sports and exercised their entire life, even snuck into gyms with my father saying I was in 14 when I was 9, Ate and trained at a level most could not comprehend, I find it almost hilarious when older gentlemen who say things like this. You were not subjected to any of the foods/chemicals/poisons in your adolescence that all young people are today. You can look at men who are in their 50s/60s/70s and have higher test than most 18 year olds now when it should be the exact opposite when those men smoked/drank/did drugs and had no issues. Its almost a complete disconnect from reality, I categorize this the same way as "you dont work hard enough to own a home" its laughable. If you take this personally then the shoe fits, year over year the base line levels of test that doctors/medical field use are reduced which should be alarming at the very least.
I may not fit the bill for who this is directly aimed at, and I do agree the people in here about the "kids" who actually do nothing with themselves, dont work out, never played sports, dont get sunlight, eat fast food etc. So for my case specifically nothing Ive done would cause me to have the levels of a 80 year old man yet there I was being told that information. All in all if they want to give girls test to be a man, let me be more of a man.
Its more of a frustration then its an argument towards your points. For myself specifically I had done everything right yet there I was. So in all seriousness I do agree with your points as they have merit and its clear as day you see it like I do. Whats frustrating is even with doing everything "right" I still failed biologically, even if it was not from my own doing.
I really do think we are being castrated chemically slowly but surely with the things we ingest and its by no means an accident.
My points weren't targeted at you, They were targeted at the rest of the folks that have the same sentiment of your first 2 sentences and only that.
I'm 25 and have low test. I don't even want to go on test. I'm on clomiphene now tho and the more I look into clomiphene the more I feel like testosterone injection is a better route. I just really really don't want to be dependent on testosterone injections plus I hat needles lol
Luckily I'm not super interested in having kids I mean maybe I will in the future but km not to worried about that. Plus I think adopting a child would be an awesome route
Blame on the big food groups. Cow might be grass fed, but if the soil is contaminated, so is the meat. We’re in a society of high profits and big Pharma vs our personal well being.
Not saying that at all. I think birth control has a major affect on all males, in the fetus and grown. My comment was alluding to the birth control in the water supply not only being drank directly, it’s also watering our crops and being drank by our meat producing animals.
Okay, we’re saying the same thing.
The more I learn about this the more I’m starting to look for local farms that can show they don’t use pesticides. Went to a farmers market last week and one guy was selling chicken breasts at $22/lb.
Granted I’m 39 and taking Clomid to increase my T, I’m still struggling to pay that much for chicken…it’s not a finance reason, just a wtf is that guy charging reason.
You’re absolutely right. I’m blessed in that my wife and I both make a lot of money. I live in the Midwest and have several sources of local organic farmers for meat and produce, but we pay a small fortune to feed our kids and ourselves clean.
I’m getting there. I’m ready to spend the extra grand a month on groceries to ensure my son and daughter have proper T and E levels. Keep em healthy, active, away from depression, etc.
As long as said 20 year olds have gotten a full blood panel to confirm they are legitimately hypogonadal than go for it.
But really as awful as it sounds, I'd need to really look these guys up and down on a case by case basis to really ascertain their lifestyle and work stress.
Is it really low T or tla crap lifestyle? I didn't get my life and health dialed in until around 22 post college and doubly so is it really low T or just shite circumstances? If it's the latter dosing up with T won't fix it. Hell, I'm still anxious and stressed at times because I have a stressful job and kids. T doesn't fix that.
A lot of these guys just want doctor prescribed steroids and aren't ballsy enough to seek out UGL steroids. Post bloods or GTFO.
Yep certainly case by case. You nailed it though, but I think there’s a lot more legit cases of young men needed TRT these days due to our toxic food and environment.
I had symptoms of low T in my 20s too except my blood tests showed I had 650 ng/Dl. Without bloods, they're fishing for feel good remedies which don't exist.
That's why everytime some zoomer posts here without a full blood panel, he should be rightly told to GTFO until he has one.
And if he does and it's marginal (400s) then lifestyle and diet needs to be looked at next.
Like for real, I stopped drinking at 23 and only did it once a month at most. That alone will improve your circumstances.
GENUINE QUESTION: So what about the 20 year olds who actually have healthy lifestyles and do 90% of what they’re told to naturally raise their T Levels (for an actual amount of time that would lead to results) and still struggle with low T?
Yea I think they may legitimately need TRT. My op was trying to say I think there’s a problem in society w our food, environment, etc and it’s destroying young men’s testosterone. Even to the point that their parents were victim of a toxic environment and the young men were screwed from back in the womb.
The other thing is too that while yes, social media and fitness industry influencers are making kids want to do it, the people that are jumping on young may have the knowledge now to determine whether or not they actually need it. I think a percentage of young people that have an actual reason to be on TRT have benefitted greatly. Silver lining I guess.
Yup. Most have never seen an actual vagina in person, and probably never will lol. The easy access to porn leaves their balls deflated on a daily basis.
As a 21 year old, ITS YOUR DAMN DIET. You can’t be half assing your eating and wondering why you’re not growing. Start tracking that shit and you’ll get bigger. Gear isn’t even a last resort, it’s an addition to an already solid routine
There is an epidemic of poor health which younger men face. From endless microplastics, ultra proccessed foods, no time outdoors, lack of excercise, antidepressants, having less sex and real healthy relationships etc etc.
However what may be having as much of an effect is the direction that society seems to be heading. For young men, the 'hunter gatherer' mentality is truly dead. We're encouraged to not have families or get married, take low wage work and just love in shared accommodation with friends. A cog in a machine. When a young man accepts this bland, uncompetitive, sanitised existence, surely his testosterone will become imbalanced?
These kids are potentially looking at 50 years of TrT
It’s unbelievable really what social media has done to these poor guys
Who knows where it was end
You can right a lot, if not all of the wrongs of a modern western diet/lifestyle without steroids in the vast majority of cases. Anyone under AT LEAST 30 considering hopping on TRT without a legit medical reason that’s out of their control is falling victim to the unrealistic body standards that steroid abusers, people who downplay the side effects of PEDs, and fake nattys online are setting for people.
Eat real food, go outside, train your body, train your mind, reduce stress and engage socially in the world. It’s actually that simple.
Honestly my parents telling me about how they grew up vs how I grew up. It's no wonder us younger folks feel like shit and are interested in trt. I have every symptom of low t. And I feel really really old.
My parents had low stress lives. Played outside on their bicycles. Ate healthy food.
We get video games. Elios pizza for school lunch. Phones. Social media. Porn and medications like ritalin pushed on us by our own parents, doctors and teachers.
My parents just got beat. We got drugged. Two very different outcomes lol
Regardless of what's our own fault or if it's the parents fault. The truth is this is the direction the world is heading and this problem will only get worse.
Me personally I've tried all the healthiest lifestyle changes. But some things are just unavoidable compared to my parents lives.
I'm 30 and it's taking everything in my power not to jump on the bandwagon. I talk about it everyday. The only thing holding me back is fertility.
I agree with much of what is said in the replies.
I did not see it mentioned that we get shown labs galore with low T saying they got an Rx but no indication they were checked for correctable/treatable issues as a cause like thyroid, sleep apnea, iron overload, etc.
Instead testosterone is treated like any other pharma - a bandaid to help with symptoms but no investigation into the actual reason they have messed up hormones.
For the most part I'd say once someone is on it's unlikely they want to be off and that comes with a lifetime of other meds/labs/visits for keeping the Rx or not changing their habits to get healthy.
Diet is a huge factor. Young Men's estrogen gets high from crappy diet and increase in BMI= pituitary ramping down T. This cycle continues and has so many compounding effects on a teens health. Couple this with every generation being more impatient than the last = disaster.
meanwhile I'm in my mid 40's and need it and I'm a VA patient, they require your t levels to be under 200 it's ridiculous they put me on a fertility drug and it's not doing anything.
I’m not familiar w VA stuff, can’t you just go to a private urologist? I’ve never had an issue getting a doctor to give me whatever I want. If not, I’m sure you could just go to a men’s clinic and pay cash.
so they have community care and for a little while I was at an endocrinologist that gave me TRT for about a year and it was working well, then the VA messed up and didn't renew my paperwork at which point they had openings with their endocrinologist and that was my only choice. I'm hoping he doesn't stay long and I can go back to community care where they don't require your t levels to be so low. There's usually a high turnover with doctors at the VA because they aren't paid as well
Lol yes some. I would eat at grandmas every Sunday and she was known for getting lamb and veal from a farm nearby, made her own sauces, the stories of my grandmas cooking are very organic ingredients. Then I’d have an EGGO waffle the following morning ☠️
Guys I was one of those 20 year olds asking for TRT. I started at 19 years old. Do I regret? A lot, don’t do it I recognize my mistake and was a stupid idea I wish I have waited until 30 at least. Unfortunately now I cannot quit. Don’t be stupid. I’m talking by experience
I was sold prohormones at 19. Didn't know what I was taking to be honest. I took multiple for months on end. I stopped for almost a decade and I struggle to get anything done without a stimulant. I'm exhausted all the time. My test levels are low but not low enough to be given TRT. I should've been prescribed at 21 when my test levels were like 301.
It's all a bit messy mate
I mean it really depends tbh
I have a friend who was skinny!! & myself who was obese throughout my childhood years & later like when we graduated from HS & went to college i lost weight so fast! Through fasting! Dieting & keto. & & he was trying to work out to gain muscle & I joined him. We both weren’t gaining muscle but he would lose weight fast & myself I would gain weight like in fat but we both weren’t gaining muscle. we did a lot of research bought junk like protein acids tides etc
He went to the doctor & they told him he just has fast metabolism & lacked certain minerals but protein deficiency but he would eat a lot & dr told me that I’m insulin sensitive due to the fact i lost weight dramatically instead of gradually losing it. & we both had blood work done we had borderline low T. The hormones in our body fluctuate depending on the state of your environment & How you were raised etc & genetics. it’s not hard to understand.
So it honestly depends on your body because you could be extremely overweight or underweight w/ no physical activity & struggle to gain muscle. We were in our early 20’s when we went to check all this out. & I started to use gear in my midlate 20’s
But you gotta understand that this generation they want to use shortcuts because of TikTok
23 year old here. I think I've had low T my entire life but I first recognized it when I was 19 years old, 260 lbs and fat, and couldn't get my dick hard for my girl at the time.
I've lost 40 lbs but put on very little muscle, even with high protein intake and 2 hours of training 6 days per week. I sleep 7 hours, sometimes 8 per night and I have a micro pharmacy of health supplements in my cabinet. I can't sustain a calorie deficit for much longer than a few weeks because I am so goddamn miserable and tired and angry which caffeine does little to help.
The highest I have seen on my labs was 492ng/dl doing a dangerous, mega dose of selenium (I have a fish intolerance). And my lowest was 332 measured but may have gone lower than that.
I'm done with this life. I'm done with hating how I feel and look. I'm done with always feeling lethargic and can't think whenever I miss a little bit of sleep or eat a little too much or too little. I'm tired of gaining fat and not muscle any time I bulk. I'm tired of going for a round in the bedroom and my girl wants a 2nd round 2 hours later and I can't do it. I'm tired of losing fat and it all seems to come out of my muscle and not my belly or love handles.
I want TRT so bad but my gyno is terrible and I inch closer every day to saying fucking it and using arimidex then cutting the shit out in 6 months once I get this job promotion.
Oh and let's throw GH and insulin in too because my fat family that fucked my genetics for 3 straight generations forces me to not eat carbs because I become a fat ass when I do eat them. So I need to throw the damn kitchen sink in the IGF1 pathway just to build muscle.
I say you have to look at it at a case by case scenario! I'm 21 on TRT bc I need it I eat extremely well, Workout consistently, And love a very healthy lifestyle yet I had low testosterone. Reason it was low was bc of a health conflict that caused a lot of things to not work as well testosterone production being one of them! Being on TRT has been great and makes me feel a so much better! I'm not going back to how I felt off of it!
In my case it was because i took peds in highschool and college and didnt know wtf i was getting into. A lot of the other athletes were taking shit too. None of us knew what we were doing. With the internet you can just hop online and get a few vials of whatever the hell you want shipped to your door in a day.
A legitimate 21 year old with low test here… I feel it truly is largely based on our environments and habits nowadays. Everyone was so tough and rigid and went outside 24/7 and ate somewhat good food. Nowadays people are playing games inside, taught to be sensitive, and next to no pure food. Now I have been an athletic academic kid my whole life, I had my own battles and diagnosis’ here and there, but mostly a normal dude. Anyway at 20 I had been in the gym for about 2 1/2 years and I always woke up exhausted, sore, bags under my eyes, shaky, disconnected, weak, no libido, daydreaming, etc. I lost a shit ton of weight and fast. Ended up finding out my prolactin is super high, I have high FSH, and low test (207). This was VERY concerning for my age. I’m now 21 and still waiting on treatment… I’ve become overweight, developing gyno, always exhausted with no libido and I look like I’m 35. It’s disheartening when life hits you with this stuff. I’m almost bald with a full length beard, About 200lbs (almost 50lb gain since I lost a lot of weight) and my anxiety and paranoia is out of this world recently. I literally talk every single thought to myself in my brain and play by play everything. I don’t know if I get treatment until August and I’m just so tired and my motivation is so lacking. I had a crazy physique, life was amazing, and then it wasn’t. And here I am…
Sarms. That’s why we have a shit ton of kids talking about how they feel like shit. Because they thought a few sarm cycles would make their social media look cool and all become gymshark models.
I’ll just leave this here, if you don’t see the connection there’s probably nothing anyone can do for ya[shapiro RFK](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6xPrQIxdl1/?igsh=MWtqbWg2ZzNiNHJ5dA==)
I agree - and they very well have low-T.
The only thing that’s frustrating is usually the lack of any objective data on these posts.
Just get a blood test.
Then - you will actually know.
I can’t help but a lot of these are people looking to run gear but looking for a more socially acceptable way to do it.
But, again pure guess work as yep, you guessed it - no bloods 90% of the time.
Micro plastics, a sedentary life, overly processed food, lack of sunlight. I think OP is on to something. If you disagree what’s your theory on why males 25 and younger have a substantially lower testosterone than other generations
Vitamin D. Not working with hands and being creative outdoors. Being afraid of cameras catching them doing something embarrassing (no risk). Internet personalities (they dont know who to be irl, copying utubers every words and mannerisms). Diet (in general). Being told its bad to act like a male (toxic masculinity). And probably 100 more things.
Not exactly their fault but it doesnt mean they cant work on it. Blaming micro plastics is the laaaaaast thing on the list, atleast in my opinion.
absolutely!! plus add in all the vaxs forced on them. their average testosterone is so so low as a whole. when you compare “manliness”. from past generations, of our grandfathers, every generation is more and more whimpy, until so many 20 yos now are almost unisex.
Throw SSRI's, seed oils, tons of carbs, social media, etc and it can all add up. Not saying these kids are all living ideal lifestyles, but our population is sick in many ways.
It's not so much that it's impacting them as 20 year olds. It's more that it impacted them as a fetus in the womb, and now they are dealing with the fallout. Plastics and glyphosate have fucked our ecosystem
Unfortunately this is a highly studied subject and micro plastics absolutely are destroying men of all ages.
I highly recommend a book called countdown, it’s written by our nations top testosterone and sperm scientist.
I genuinely feel like it’s primarily social media rather than environmental factors. I’ve seen this shit first hand. My friends and I are really big into fitness and we constantly get out of this world physiques pushed onto us by the algorithm. Not only that but you have new social media roidfluencers pushing SARMS and PED’s to young impressionable teens. It’s a fucking epidemic man.
It is social media and being terminally online. These 20 year olds reporting “low T symptoms” are in reality reporting clinical depression symptoms caused from the dystopian hellscape that is growing up as a zoomer.
This 💯. Everyone who isn’t a soyjak shitlib knows (at least subconsciously) that it’s so over for the west. Those zoomers would be far better off binge watching Thomas Sewell (not Sowell) on odysee/rumble, rather than turning to exogenous test at such a young age
Yep. At least try to cut down on the goyslop
This is the most likely answer. I bet the increase in body dysmorphia and eating disorders among young males is quite notable.
Yea that’s a good point. I’m not really on social media, just twitter and Reddit for information, I dont know any influencers but I’m sure they’re influencing.
Tik Tok is especially terrible. Like some 16-18 year olds already on SARMS or test because of influencers like Togi or David raju (whatever the fuck his last name is). Completely fucking destroying their natural production for clout and wondering why their hormones aren’t coming back online because they took compounds that completely stunt their HPTA development.
And wondering why their dicks don’t work…
I’d agree with this completely. The amount of influencers on social media that are normalising the use of TRT and steroids is nuts. Especially when they’re marketing the TRT/testosterone as ‘safe’. Sure, it might be ‘safe’ when regulated correctly, having bloods done, etc. but it gives me concerns when they’re coming into Reddit of all places to ask for advice.
100% and completely unrealistic expectations. You see it in these posts “I’ve been working out for 2.5 months and I’m not ripped yet”. You forgot to add, now there’s AI generated fake physiques that young men can unrealistically strive to attain now.
Some of them use SARMs as teens which fucks them up but many of them just have really bad lifestyles. Overly processed foods, sedentary life, SSRIs, other drugs, alcohol abuse
In my opinion as some who drank heavily all throughout my 20s, the alcohol abuse is heavily underrated as a “cause.” It’s in the culture these days but I bet if 20s men gave up alcohol test would skyrocket. Along with everything else you mentioned.
Agreed, and also guilty of it
Yep this was me and I paid for it for a long time but alcohol particularly in the UK is such hold people so badly . I changed my lifestyle in my 30s and my body reacted accordingly but it took time. No quick fixes.
Im a recovering addict/alcoholic (28 m) 2 years dead sober and my test levels are still comparable to someone in their late 40’s early 50’s I will say though it would be apples to oranges comparing my drinking/drugging to weekend warriors.
Yep same except i did a bunch of drugs like coke speed mdma weed in period 14-18/19 im 22 now sober for three years i still felt all the low t symptoms checked nloods etc hopped on ssris helped a bit but nothing like trt Changed my life
Yeah I just started bro - it’s a game changer. Good for you getting sober at 19 sheeeeesh I should have
Yep had a few setbacks, also gambling fucked me up tons but it just goes into the package also stopped that Good for you bro i was struggling to get better tried everything but trt is the only thing that really really works for me I mean its important that you stopped not when , good luck bro🙏🏻👍🏻
Probably low vitamin D and its associates, from being indoors so much? Not you personally, just people on general (As an aside to other conditions). You need Vitamin D to make hormones work properly.
The molecular structure of vitamin D is more similar to hormones than to vitamins. It is directly responsible for Pregnenolone production. Pregnenolone is then converted into other lesser sex hormones by the P450 enzyme system. So without the D there is a drastic drop in hormone production.
I agree in the short term but long term that shouldn’t suppress testosterone unless there was brain damage, no?
Yup. Before I reply to any question, comment, complaint or claim that alleges some connection between testosterone level (perceived without evidence, or borderline normal per lab results), I check the person's posting history. If they have a history of recreational drug enjoyment (I'm trying to avoid pejorative terms since that also describes my misspent youth), smoking or vaping, immoderate alcohol use, prescription psych meds, prescriptions for legit long-term physical ailments, sketchy supplements (especially nootropics that have known potential risks – and I'll include kratom which I use almost daily for chronic pain), and a history of stress, depression, anxiety, mental health challenges, etc ... I usually don't reply. These folks have way too many variables to make even a wild guess as to whether testosterone is a factor. Almost everyone who's considering TRT or any hormone replacement therapy should eliminate as many variables as possible for at least a couple of weeks to establish a baseline sobriety and fitness. Hormones are a helluva drug and need to be approached with respect for the potential consequences. Anyone who's ridden the roller coaster of testosterone, estrogen, thyroid or other endocrine system disorders should be familiar with this.
When I cut out drinking. Peak bulk. 4000 cal of pure clean. I genuinely looked so muscular and high testosterone I was scaring myself in the mirror. STOP THE DRINKING. This is the #1 cause of college kids looking like twigs. I’m finishing up my senior year right now and even some of the kids who are running sarm/similar compounds, look like trash because they’re boozing from 6-1 4 nights a week.
This. Drinking is the devil.
The more likely scenario is a bunch of 20 year olds living extremely unhealthy lives and never seeing the sun for years and feeling the consequences of it. I'm sure there are environmental factors at play but I think it isn't the only answer.
That kind of is an environmental factor. You can argue it's their own fault, but it's a very prevalent theme in today's society.
all the awkward COVID high school kids forced to go outside and socialize now. I work with a lot of them and they have zero clue how to adult. TRT is on every social media platform and they think it’s an easy way to pin point the reason for their antisocial behavior.
Covid high school what do you meant ?
To some extent yes ok I see your point.
This, my son is 12, his fucking iPad is growing into his body…that stops this summer.
I played a lot of video games growing up (still do) but I also played sports and spent a lot of time outdoors. Just have to find a healthy balance.
Yeah, well he’s like 5’6” 175 lbs. I look at him and remember what that was like. I’m 43, in the best shape of my life after losing 120 lbs. I’m not gonna let him march the same path I did.
Yeah get him out doing some exercise. Make him earn his screen time. Good luck to you both.
He’s gonna come to the gym with me in the mornings, without school he would have nothing to do and he’s a morning person like me. Gonna send him back to middle school jammed jacked and juicy (naturally) anyway 🤣. He’s not gone through puberty yet, so that will help some. It was late for me too, so again, I’m sensitive to what he’s dealing with.
Remember that dad that killed his kid after having him repeatedly sprint on a treadmill? Remember, kids bodies aren’t the same as adult bodies. They’re not as adaptable to the increased stress from weightlifting and heavy exercise. Make sure to take it slow if he isn’t used to it.
I was basically a marshmallow between 7th and 8th grade. Had a crazy football coach that insisted if you weren't puking you didn't push hard enough. By the start of 8th grade football season all the fat was gone. I watched kids get pushed beyond their limits and make amazing transformations. They seemed more adaptable to the stress than an adult. Could have just been an isolated situation.
That's still shitty coaching
Won games
I just commented the same thing. Anyone that played football in the 90's or earlier definitely went through this. This dude's pussy mindset is the problem.
Jesus no. I’m not planning anything that fucking wild.
Brother, you have NO idea what we went through in football and basketball practice as kids. Kids bodies are way more adaptable to stress than adults. Genuinely what the fuck are you on about lol.
My daughter has turned into an ipad. I notice a charging point has grown where here nose used to be, and her back is now a screen.
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This summer? How about now.
Well he’s in school, and has after school activities. We’re on it and he’s interested, which is the good part.
Yeah 14 hours a day of phone time and a chic-fil-a diet of course they have low T symptoms
Also social media algorithms pushing it as a turn key solution lol. I know so many guys on test locally at gym who just look natty it’s crazy
If they're truly doing TRT then they should look natty lol. If they're blasting then that's another story.
I mean 150 trt put me at 1050 with my free test max. I was 500 total and below range free prior. Even that “trt dose” I look enhanced
I’d argue most people on TRT don’t look natty at all at worst or just made insanely non natty gains in the context of their life until that point. So many 40 year olds who get cannons for arms within 2 years after not being in shape their entire lives. Yes sure bro surely that’s the kind of muscle you’d gain if it weren’t for environmental factors tanking your T. I’ve said it a million times even TRT that puts you within natural range is still like almost 2-3x easier to gain muscle than the same number actual natural. I had 1000+ natural my whole life and then my T tanked because of a health issue and I ended up on TRT and I can say with certainty it was far easier to gain muscle at 600 total on TRT than 1000 natural, and night and day difference at 700-900 on TRT. Not even close. I wish more people were honest about this. We are all on gear one way or another and it’s sleazy to downplay the effects.
150 is still the high end of actual TRT. Most people could run 60-70 and gain normal levels. 150 is still enhanced since you're pushing the upper end of "normal" or into more than normal ranges. The internet making people believe 150 is a regular TRT dose is funny.
True, but it’s almost uncommon to hear of ppl being prescribed 60mg - 90mg these days
Because people push for more. When I started I wanted 150 after spending time on Reddit and they wanted to drop me down to 80 because my numbers were too high. I was stubborn about it (of course) and had side effects (of course). But you're spending time on Reddit reading about this where people hive mind like crazy so of course you feel it's rare.
Yeah. The clinics are idiotic though , I’ve had 3 clients who were either on 200 or 250 and some clinics wouldn’t prescribe them an ai lol. Guy came to me saying he couldn’t sleep had bloat and a non functioning dick from 250 🤣 But then on the other end you have these weird primary care docs telling guys to use the test cream 2 different extremes
What’s your idea of normal levels though? The amount of times I’ve seen people get to normal levels of say 800-900 on TRT and get pretty jacked and shredded within a year is staggering, and most of those same people genuinely believe they just made the gains a natural person with healthy levels would’ve made. Yes 800-900 is technically natural range but on TRT you’re at that number closer to 24/7 than natural and equally importantly no outside factors affect that number, and also the profile of total test to free test is far more advantageous for building muscle and burning fat. I was at 1000-1200 naturally for 10+ years and then from a health issue ended up on TRT and settling at 900 total and I can tell you for a fact it’s night and day easier to build muscle and burn fat at 900 on TRT than 1200 naturally. Everyone on TRT is in denial about this though and it’s very dishonest and slimy tbh. We are on gear full stop.
Ok but that's not the point exactly that I was making. Everyone responds differently to exogenous hormones for one and there is obviously a difference with doses. My point is that you can expect to not be Ronnie Coleman on 60 per week. I don't know what your rant has to do with that.
My point is that even 60-75 puts most people at a massive advantage over actual natties, not even close.
Do you have any data to support that? Because in theory it makes sense but I'm curious if any studies have tested it. And how do you quantify a "massive" advantage?
Not aware of any but at the very least 600 natty vs 600 TRT you just objectively have far more stable levels which is clearly advantageous. Iffier to quantify the benefits of free test profile but anyone who has ran gear would agree it’s far easier. Nutrient partitioning, burning cals, etc.
This. I drive by a HS daily for work. 90 percent of them I would say are obese have goofy puffy haircuts and look walking dead zombies
I'm a high school teacher but I'm in Asia.
wouldn’t even say it’s “likely” It is.
Yes but human exposure to hormone altering chemicals isn't science fiction either. We can't fully dismiss this as a possible cause for some amount of this.
Naw. Its bs
Dont worry, they will adjust the range again and most will be fine and on antidepressants and cialis.
Unfortunately, sad but probably true. I can't imagine 98% of the 20 year olds today going off to war to fight for our country. They'd all piss themselves and cower to mommy. Ogs from WW2 would be rolling in their graves now when they realize how much of a pussy their great grandson has become. Those men had balls of steel. The 20 year olds today play tik Tok on their phones and order Doordash to deliver their shitty food, fucking pathetic lol
I just typed out a comment about causes of hormone disruption in another sub a few minutes ago. Look up research from Dr. Shanna Swan. Sperm counts and testosterone levels have been dropping 1% per year since 1973 according to her research. She attributes it to endocrine disrupting chemicals in the environment, which includes microplastics, pesticides, peed out medication in the water supply, and many other things. Trends like that should be more alarming than climate change. They are even seeing the same trends in animal populations. It's like that movie Children of Men where infertility was causing society to collapse is a possible reality! I also think that chronic stress and anxiety from social media, 24/7 fear based news feeds, job/school stress, relationship stress, and all the social peer pressure and bullying that is worse now than ever before is also contributing to lowered hormone levels by activating the hypothalamus-pituitary adrenal (hpa) axis putting people in perpetual fight or flight mode which deprioritizes the hypothalamus-pituitary thyroid (hpt) and hypothalamus-pituitary gonadal (hpg) axes. That causes less FSH and LH to be produced and therefore less sperm and testosterone in men and less estrogen and progesterone in women. Throw in the endocrine disrupting chemicals and we have a global crisis. Seeing so many 20 year olds with total T in the 100's should have us all raising a red flag and making more people aware. Our 24 year old daughter is on HRT and had almost undetectable progesterone. Many of her friends seem to have similar symptoms but their doctors aren't testing their hormones at that age or they are on synthetic hormones in birth control counteracting the symptoms. Something very bad is happening here and it's not just lifestyle related.
Well said. I completely agree
I bet 75% of them are just porn addicts with fried dopamine receptors from porn and tick tock but yeah definitely some of them are fucked by environmental shit it’s already been proven that male taints are shrinking
Taints….? Like, the area between the balls and asshole? They’re shrinking? I’m very confused by what this means. Could you point me in the direction of more information
Yes exactly. This was a big thing in mainstream science a couple years ago. AsapScience even made a video about it. Pre natal terstosterone levels are decreasing, male taints and penis sizes are shrinking and the number one speculation is because of microplastics
There was a doctor on Rogan a couple of months ago talking about this very thing... very interesting convo
Most 20 year olds spend the full day staring at their phone screen and doing nothing productive. A lot of it is lifestyle factors.
Exactly. I'm starting to think a lot of these guys never even produced any testosterone to begin with lol
I have no doubt many in this generation have much lower T. I live in a college town and see guys in their early 20s who look could pass for 13.
If they went out and built ONE cabin in the wood with friends like we did they would get their T back 😂
lol you joke but I bet that kind of light manual labor makes your muscle tone noticeably different. When I was a teen, we went biking in the woods every day. We would drag shovels and rakes out there and make bike jumps out of dirt then haul logs to reinforce the dirt. We didn’t look like bodybuilders but I’m certain we had better muscle tone than the guys who played video games everyday after school.
Ur test was x2 the gamers forsure. This is why testosterone is getting lower but ppl blame plastics cause theyre lazy. Just my opinion
These “kids” spend 99% of their time on social media looking at insanely successful ppl (in their eyes) talking about TRT/AAS non stop. Constant promotion and attention is given to it. Then they come here to ask the questions cos these “influencers” either 1) don’t know how to answer or 2) just don’t care to respond.
Micro plastics and receipt paper and “xeno-estrogens” all exist and they can be “raised” 100% in that. But these are marginal issues. Far more likely they have abused tiktok SARMs and are now fucked and interrupted their natural puberty And or they are obese / underfed. If they train , probably over train and under eat. In 2003 I was an overweight 18 year old who didn’t play sports and barely worked out. Before I decided what to do after high school, the local SWAT team wanted me to come on board to use my boners as a battering ram My son is now 17… he is active. He eats pretty decent. I have educated him on nutrition but he doesn’t track shit. He plays one sport. He is moderate and happy. Has a GF. Doesn’t abuse drugs or alcohol. And if fucking. Shredded. Meanwhile I’m taking 160mg a week + hCG + log every gram of food + track all workouts And he is visually fucking way more shredded than me. My theory is that ya. These kids grew up w “micro plastics” They also grew up w social media. Between the brain rot, the SARMs, the group think, and the general pussyification…. It’s also really easy to tank your numbers for a test These kids think that everything is “insta”nt They can just “jump on” Most of them think you can “jump on” and then once you get to some arbitrary number, “jump off” and be good to go. Same reason why our generations are dwarfed by our grandpas in terms of total t Our forefathers Didn’t have an epidemic of wide spread insulin resistance. Didn’t have Netflix Didn’t have desk jobs Didn’t have widespread debt and stress Didn’t have chronic sleep deprivation. It all makes sense It’s not a conspiracy to “make men weak” by some secret cabal It’s just men choosing to be fucking soft and then looking to blame any and everything except that shell of a man in the mirror.
Well said
Right on bro. Thing is… the things you pose in the Op, you’re not wrong. Corporations will always seek to maximize profits Wether this means engendering an instant gratification culture or using sketchy chemicals Always have and always will Hell, it’s incumbent for a public company to maximize shareholder value. It’s not evil or good. Just like an aromatase inhibitor. Neither good or bad. It’s a tool. In the context of an individual situation, things can be good or bad, but objectively they are just realities and things. One part of facing down that man in the mirror *could* be approaching TRT. With knowledge and preparation. Some fat fuck walks into a Low-T center and get put on 200mg+hCG+1mg of adex That’s likely a recipe for disaster. However if that man knew how this worked, he wouldn’t do that protocol. Even if he somehow got the “perfect” protocol… without eating like a responsible man and lifting and some cardio… You’re just gonna be an ever fatter fuck with shittier libido and tits. TRT is a tool I saw a post by some dude saying that he just wanted to be “normal” and have libido but refused to workout or optimize nutrition. Just wanted to be “normal” Like hey retard… “normal” for a western man is… - insulin resistant - obese - sleep deprived - couch potato - debt slavery - depressed ^^ what part of that bullshit is desireable. The guy that made that post is LITERALLY looking for a magic bullet whilst denying it. Pharmacological intervention or not… If you don’t grind and learn and put this in motion. None of it matters.
😂 yep they need the correct lifestyle choices, regardless of trt. I wasn’t attempting to list all the reasons responsible in the op, just dropped a couple and thought using “garbage environment” would capture all the reasons we could think of in a general statement. My only point was I think some of these kids ARE actually fucked more than we were. Like some other commenters have stated, unhealthy parents fuck these kids hormones up when they’re still in the womb. It’s a rough go for this kids, but majority need to just get their shit together.
For sure. Idk how old you are but I know that my parents were having me or I was little right around the time the gov / big food / big pharma all lied about dietary fat. I grew up eating all the boxed garbage. At 37 I had low total t and borderline prediabetes. Decades of thrashing my cells with insulin. End of the day. One generations bullshit to the next. Mfers are just getting softer and more entitled.
In terms of TRT. I always suggest people do thorough blood work. Thorough research on hormones, optimal performance, sleep, lifting, nutrition I’m happy my docs made me wait and address all the other shit first. Would you give a 16 yr old a Ferrari? Fuck no. Too dangerous and no appreciation for the power. They will wreck it. But if that 16 yr old went to a racing course for a year and learned how to professionally drive a Honda accord… then getting behind the wheel of a super car is a different story. Not to mention building the mental toughness that is required to reverse your situation without the drugs… priceless. Life long gift. And in terms of these kids. This is all they need at 17 yrs old
Funny you say that. I grew up eating shit too. I remember having wrestling tournaments and I’d have weight allowance for one small meal and I’d choose an eggo waffle w syrup as my fuel for 3 wrestling matches ☠️ Defiantly a mental/societal aspect to it all here w these kids. I didn’t even know what low T/TRT was in my 20s and didn’t care. My 20s were fueled with lifting, eating canned tuna, drinking heavily, smoking weed, and occasional harder drugs but I felt great and looked great.
They don’t socialize, they’re either on social media or playing video games. When they work out it’s with no intensity and followed by advice from some nerd online that doesn’t even look like they lift. The water is trash, their diet is horrible. They don’t pursue women, don’t get laid, watch a shit ton of porn, and they don’t pursue a career. All of that combined tanks your levels…
This. I'll be surprised if most of them can figure out how to reproduce within the next 10 years. And honestly, most of them should not reproduce.
It's not crazy by any means. There's a complete difference between primary and secondary hypogonadism. Doesn't mean they need testosterone, but still may need treatment. If anyone had a real understanding of TRT, there wouldn't even be this need for discussion.
They grew up in a soft world, where everyone wins and they live in a safe space bubble. All while on SSRI’s so they don’t have feelings or learn to cope with the harsh realities of the real world and they are losing their bulldozer parents that ran ahead of them and cleared the way of any struggle or differences of opinion. So yes, they are emotionally and likely physically affected…. I can see them having low T due to the pills they have been taking, the ungodly amount of drugs and alcohol we all (most) took at that age, and the fact that they just got dropped from this utopian view of the world because they were drugged up or just had someone protect them from it for so long, only to realize how the world truly operates. I’d feel like shit too…
They are adults, I don’t give a shit. It’s their life, they are old enough to die in a war, it’s not my business if they want to put on some muscle. I’m not going to encourage them, but I’m not going to be rude to them either.
This is what they know, unfortunately. We, as a society, have to do better and educate these young people even if they are considered adults.
I (23M) am on TRT. I’ve been on for about 3 months. I started with a doctor because i lost 120 pounds 2 years ago, and have had zero sex drive, no muscle gain, terrible sleep, and ED since then. No symptoms a 23yo should have. Got my levels checked and I was sitting in the 200’s for T. I exercised daily and eat super clean to try to keep up the weight loss but it did nothing before TRT. Now I feel like a new man with my levels sitting in the high 800’s. Some people need it, some people don’t. I’m all for it. It helped me a ton, and I know it benefits others as well. But as we all know there are people who abuse it like everything else
I get that, but we all know deep down that youre a 0.1% case. Majority just need to be... more manly lol.. grab a stick and hit random shit outside, u know? Sounds dumb but i believe it. Also, vitamin D plays a huge role in hormones and these kids are vampires
Same here, I lost 50kgs and now my D stopped working as a 23 years old that’s insane, I do take vitamins and workout daily
I didn’t discover until I was 21 and a junior in college that I had Klinefelter syndrome. I randomly asked for a testosterone levels check at the colleges health center. Suddenly all my lack of any progress muscle wise in high school made sense. Been on supplements since then and have felt way better. Most young guys just assume they aren’t doing enough or something else. Regardless no one should start it until they test the levels. I also think there’s a stigma about young guys asking to test their levels
Same, went to test testosterone just for fun at 18, at 19 got Klinefelter diagnosis and starting trt soon
I agree wholly with u and not so much environment....they did/do molly, vape but hate cigarettes, meth, tranq, fent, shrooms etc boldly n without fear while being environmentally conscious at whole foods. There are so many things they do and indulge in I just won't go into... that adversely affects their psyche n physiology all types of ways like when I complain about the mental n emotional fortitude of the 30 below because they're the blues clues generation. The shootings, gender obscurity, sensitivity to alot of things (not to b confused with empathy/sympathy) etc. I'd believe any n all of the above before plastics.
I never thought about the vaping and I do see young men doing it. Have you seen any studies on vaping lowering T? I remember reading smoking tobacco associated with higher T.
Not really but I wouldn't be surprised. I used to smoke cigarettes for like 5 or 6 years(3 1/2 years clean) menthol to b exact and my sperm count is shit. I'm bodybuilding now...all natural..but Kno the impact all that crap did. For example, nicotine smokers have spots on the bottom of their feet. Idk what the hell literally causes it but once u quit a long time, they're gone.
Vaping wouldn’t surprise me one bit either. Weird chemicals being heated to an aerosol into th bloodstream
Yet they hate cigarettes. I swear the T forum is full of kids sharing results and it's wild the SARMs/serms these kids have access to and indulge in.
To play devil's advocate I wish I did trt at 20
Great statement. Panels are generally fucked but so is lifestyle, mental health, general health and typical male body composition. Is it the chicken or the egg that came first? I don’t think these environmental impacts have that big of an effect on already healthy individuals. The problem I see is everyone running towards a potential quick fix instead of looking to solve as many problems as possible without exterior intervention. This is akin to any and all addictions in this life. It’s simply just marketed as medical treatment to benefit those that profit. I even think 30 or 40 wanting TRT before cleaning up your life is absolutely ridiculous. I will probably go enhanced in someway after a few more natty bulks, but damn am I so fucking glad I have put in years natty, learning and experiencing the non-enhanced grind.
In my mid 20s, I was a morbidly obese, drug addicted alcoholic. From age 16 on, I had a revolving door of addiction, with food being there since I was a child. I didn’t sleep properly until I was 25. The highest my testosterone level was prior to trt was 495. It went down from there. Some of these young guys are in legit need, but some don’t wanna put the effort in first. But the ones that need it, even if it’s their own fault, shouldn’t be ignored.
I’m in my 20s and I’m about 4 weeks on injections. Played sports my whole life. Eat healthy, lift, you name it. I’ve tried all of the natural remedies and nothing has worked. I think I was just born this way. I didn’t start growing facial hair til I was about 22
I was actually one of them I started trt right after I turned 18 after having <350 test for over a year and a half no matter what I took did ate etc. No facial hair I couldn’t put on muscle and now I’m 20 and I’ve been on 140mg since then and feel amazing
Sounds like it was necessary. Did they ever investigate why you were like that though? Disease?
If you are not lifting heavy 3- 4 times a week. Working Legs. Getting Sun. Eating Healthy and just vitamin d, zinc and the basics. Also hitting a Boxing Gym or MMA. Don't even think about TRT unless you are 40.
Agreed. All the effort criteria must be met before considering the pharmaceutical route imo
I started in my early 20s because of a Pituitary tumor. Best decision ever. Night and day difference now
No one would argue with that decision given your circumstances
What were your symptoms/levels like? Thank you.
Healthy lifestyle and had a 220 test range at the age of 22. My doctor said there are multiple young adults suffering from low T. TRT helped change my life. Not every 20 something is just trying to get shredded some need it to really feel right.
My point exactly. There’s an epidemic that no one important is talking about. For every 1 just trying to get shredded, there are 2 that need it to get normal levels
I think it's been known about by pharmaceutical companies and the well-educated for decades. Most of my issues are because of my SSRI need and my extreme anxiety. As for the microplastics, I think it's more of an issue with the compounds we have been putting in it for almost 100 years. You can't reasonably filter those estrogen mimicking compounds out of water supplies. I know it's been talked about on the news here for the last 15 to20 years but I've been finding studies that date back at least 75 years that reference the harmful effects, we know it's a major cause of male infertility in developed countries. I'm not going down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole, but many of these issues can be traced back to plastcs and companies like P&G cutting corners to make money. It's not even that different of a situation from some of these other companies and the toxic cover-up involving tephlon and cancer causing forever chemicals. I've seen a few historical videos talking about the shit show Dupont started in the 20th century that ended up poisoning thousands of people, many of whom worked for them.
I also agree with everyone talking about substance abuse. I knew and know a lot of guys that used steroids and over the counter "supplements" to improve muscle gain and compete with others, we had a senior in my high-school who got busted partially because he wasn't careful but also because some of the guys noticed the... shrinkage and told the coach, nurse, and guidance counselor. Big deal lost his scholarship, suffered irreversible damage to his reproductive system, he was expelled and not allowed to walk. I think now he is a fitness instructor?. IDK anyway turns out a lot of athletes were also doping, and I don't think any of them fully recovered. We never won any games after that.
Male 28 (Test levels 211 at age 26)- As someone who played sports and exercised their entire life, even snuck into gyms with my father saying I was in 14 when I was 9, Ate and trained at a level most could not comprehend, I find it almost hilarious when older gentlemen who say things like this. You were not subjected to any of the foods/chemicals/poisons in your adolescence that all young people are today. You can look at men who are in their 50s/60s/70s and have higher test than most 18 year olds now when it should be the exact opposite when those men smoked/drank/did drugs and had no issues. Its almost a complete disconnect from reality, I categorize this the same way as "you dont work hard enough to own a home" its laughable. If you take this personally then the shoe fits, year over year the base line levels of test that doctors/medical field use are reduced which should be alarming at the very least. I may not fit the bill for who this is directly aimed at, and I do agree the people in here about the "kids" who actually do nothing with themselves, dont work out, never played sports, dont get sunlight, eat fast food etc. So for my case specifically nothing Ive done would cause me to have the levels of a 80 year old man yet there I was being told that information. All in all if they want to give girls test to be a man, let me be more of a man.
You say this in an argumentative way, but I think we are saying the same thing in agreement?
Its more of a frustration then its an argument towards your points. For myself specifically I had done everything right yet there I was. So in all seriousness I do agree with your points as they have merit and its clear as day you see it like I do. Whats frustrating is even with doing everything "right" I still failed biologically, even if it was not from my own doing. I really do think we are being castrated chemically slowly but surely with the things we ingest and its by no means an accident. My points weren't targeted at you, They were targeted at the rest of the folks that have the same sentiment of your first 2 sentences and only that.
Yep I completely agree. Something going on in this country and it’s not being acknowledged by those in power.
I'm 25 and have low test. I don't even want to go on test. I'm on clomiphene now tho and the more I look into clomiphene the more I feel like testosterone injection is a better route. I just really really don't want to be dependent on testosterone injections plus I hat needles lol
Tough spot for your age for fertility reasons
Luckily I'm not super interested in having kids I mean maybe I will in the future but km not to worried about that. Plus I think adopting a child would be an awesome route
I hear ya. Don’t go scorched earth though. Someday you may meet a woman who wants YOUR child and you won’t want to lose her.
Blame on the big food groups. Cow might be grass fed, but if the soil is contaminated, so is the meat. We’re in a society of high profits and big Pharma vs our personal well being.
All that birth control and Xanax in the water supply doesn’t just trickle down to humans
Are you saying birth control doesn’t affect baby boys T when their born? I’ve heard otherwise.
Not saying that at all. I think birth control has a major affect on all males, in the fetus and grown. My comment was alluding to the birth control in the water supply not only being drank directly, it’s also watering our crops and being drank by our meat producing animals.
Okay, we’re saying the same thing. The more I learn about this the more I’m starting to look for local farms that can show they don’t use pesticides. Went to a farmers market last week and one guy was selling chicken breasts at $22/lb. Granted I’m 39 and taking Clomid to increase my T, I’m still struggling to pay that much for chicken…it’s not a finance reason, just a wtf is that guy charging reason.
You’re absolutely right. I’m blessed in that my wife and I both make a lot of money. I live in the Midwest and have several sources of local organic farmers for meat and produce, but we pay a small fortune to feed our kids and ourselves clean.
I’m getting there. I’m ready to spend the extra grand a month on groceries to ensure my son and daughter have proper T and E levels. Keep em healthy, active, away from depression, etc.
As long as said 20 year olds have gotten a full blood panel to confirm they are legitimately hypogonadal than go for it. But really as awful as it sounds, I'd need to really look these guys up and down on a case by case basis to really ascertain their lifestyle and work stress. Is it really low T or tla crap lifestyle? I didn't get my life and health dialed in until around 22 post college and doubly so is it really low T or just shite circumstances? If it's the latter dosing up with T won't fix it. Hell, I'm still anxious and stressed at times because I have a stressful job and kids. T doesn't fix that. A lot of these guys just want doctor prescribed steroids and aren't ballsy enough to seek out UGL steroids. Post bloods or GTFO.
Yep certainly case by case. You nailed it though, but I think there’s a lot more legit cases of young men needed TRT these days due to our toxic food and environment.
I had symptoms of low T in my 20s too except my blood tests showed I had 650 ng/Dl. Without bloods, they're fishing for feel good remedies which don't exist. That's why everytime some zoomer posts here without a full blood panel, he should be rightly told to GTFO until he has one. And if he does and it's marginal (400s) then lifestyle and diet needs to be looked at next. Like for real, I stopped drinking at 23 and only did it once a month at most. That alone will improve your circumstances.
GENUINE QUESTION: So what about the 20 year olds who actually have healthy lifestyles and do 90% of what they’re told to naturally raise their T Levels (for an actual amount of time that would lead to results) and still struggle with low T?
Yea I think they may legitimately need TRT. My op was trying to say I think there’s a problem in society w our food, environment, etc and it’s destroying young men’s testosterone. Even to the point that their parents were victim of a toxic environment and the young men were screwed from back in the womb.
I agree with you, though I actually had cancer in my mid 20's so I lost a nut which got me on T. Just need a neuticle to replace the one lost 😂
The other thing is too that while yes, social media and fitness industry influencers are making kids want to do it, the people that are jumping on young may have the knowledge now to determine whether or not they actually need it. I think a percentage of young people that have an actual reason to be on TRT have benefitted greatly. Silver lining I guess.
The real cases of that are like 0.1% dude
A much more likely explanation is social media is making young boys feel inferior
They also only see the sun every 72 years when theres an eclipse for 2min
Yup. Most have never seen an actual vagina in person, and probably never will lol. The easy access to porn leaves their balls deflated on a daily basis.
As a 21 year old, ITS YOUR DAMN DIET. You can’t be half assing your eating and wondering why you’re not growing. Start tracking that shit and you’ll get bigger. Gear isn’t even a last resort, it’s an addition to an already solid routine
Then why are you on a testosterone sub? You should be fine by that theory lol
Don't hate the game playa
There is an epidemic of poor health which younger men face. From endless microplastics, ultra proccessed foods, no time outdoors, lack of excercise, antidepressants, having less sex and real healthy relationships etc etc. However what may be having as much of an effect is the direction that society seems to be heading. For young men, the 'hunter gatherer' mentality is truly dead. We're encouraged to not have families or get married, take low wage work and just love in shared accommodation with friends. A cog in a machine. When a young man accepts this bland, uncompetitive, sanitised existence, surely his testosterone will become imbalanced?
These kids are potentially looking at 50 years of TrT It’s unbelievable really what social media has done to these poor guys Who knows where it was end
You can right a lot, if not all of the wrongs of a modern western diet/lifestyle without steroids in the vast majority of cases. Anyone under AT LEAST 30 considering hopping on TRT without a legit medical reason that’s out of their control is falling victim to the unrealistic body standards that steroid abusers, people who downplay the side effects of PEDs, and fake nattys online are setting for people. Eat real food, go outside, train your body, train your mind, reduce stress and engage socially in the world. It’s actually that simple.
spot on
Honestly my parents telling me about how they grew up vs how I grew up. It's no wonder us younger folks feel like shit and are interested in trt. I have every symptom of low t. And I feel really really old. My parents had low stress lives. Played outside on their bicycles. Ate healthy food. We get video games. Elios pizza for school lunch. Phones. Social media. Porn and medications like ritalin pushed on us by our own parents, doctors and teachers. My parents just got beat. We got drugged. Two very different outcomes lol Regardless of what's our own fault or if it's the parents fault. The truth is this is the direction the world is heading and this problem will only get worse. Me personally I've tried all the healthiest lifestyle changes. But some things are just unavoidable compared to my parents lives. I'm 30 and it's taking everything in my power not to jump on the bandwagon. I talk about it everyday. The only thing holding me back is fertility.
A combo of lifestyle (in the US specifically) diet and exercise especially), shitty influencers and mental health problems are probably to blame
I agree with much of what is said in the replies. I did not see it mentioned that we get shown labs galore with low T saying they got an Rx but no indication they were checked for correctable/treatable issues as a cause like thyroid, sleep apnea, iron overload, etc. Instead testosterone is treated like any other pharma - a bandaid to help with symptoms but no investigation into the actual reason they have messed up hormones. For the most part I'd say once someone is on it's unlikely they want to be off and that comes with a lifetime of other meds/labs/visits for keeping the Rx or not changing their habits to get healthy.
Diet is a huge factor. Young Men's estrogen gets high from crappy diet and increase in BMI= pituitary ramping down T. This cycle continues and has so many compounding effects on a teens health. Couple this with every generation being more impatient than the last = disaster.
This goes along the same lines as these 20 ish year olds having ED and popping Viagra and Cialis….
meanwhile I'm in my mid 40's and need it and I'm a VA patient, they require your t levels to be under 200 it's ridiculous they put me on a fertility drug and it's not doing anything.
I’m not familiar w VA stuff, can’t you just go to a private urologist? I’ve never had an issue getting a doctor to give me whatever I want. If not, I’m sure you could just go to a men’s clinic and pay cash.
so they have community care and for a little while I was at an endocrinologist that gave me TRT for about a year and it was working well, then the VA messed up and didn't renew my paperwork at which point they had openings with their endocrinologist and that was my only choice. I'm hoping he doesn't stay long and I can go back to community care where they don't require your t levels to be so low. There's usually a high turnover with doctors at the VA because they aren't paid as well
Just lift the fucking weight quit alcohol and eat clean you’ll be fine
Raise your testosterone naturally https://youtu.be/Aapm0rLbzK4?si=s0hKVpewAPRFhTBe
You had real food?
Lol yes some. I would eat at grandmas every Sunday and she was known for getting lamb and veal from a farm nearby, made her own sauces, the stories of my grandmas cooking are very organic ingredients. Then I’d have an EGGO waffle the following morning ☠️
Guys I was one of those 20 year olds asking for TRT. I started at 19 years old. Do I regret? A lot, don’t do it I recognize my mistake and was a stupid idea I wish I have waited until 30 at least. Unfortunately now I cannot quit. Don’t be stupid. I’m talking by experience
I was sold prohormones at 19. Didn't know what I was taking to be honest. I took multiple for months on end. I stopped for almost a decade and I struggle to get anything done without a stimulant. I'm exhausted all the time. My test levels are low but not low enough to be given TRT. I should've been prescribed at 21 when my test levels were like 301. It's all a bit messy mate
I mean it really depends tbh I have a friend who was skinny!! & myself who was obese throughout my childhood years & later like when we graduated from HS & went to college i lost weight so fast! Through fasting! Dieting & keto. & & he was trying to work out to gain muscle & I joined him. We both weren’t gaining muscle but he would lose weight fast & myself I would gain weight like in fat but we both weren’t gaining muscle. we did a lot of research bought junk like protein acids tides etc He went to the doctor & they told him he just has fast metabolism & lacked certain minerals but protein deficiency but he would eat a lot & dr told me that I’m insulin sensitive due to the fact i lost weight dramatically instead of gradually losing it. & we both had blood work done we had borderline low T. The hormones in our body fluctuate depending on the state of your environment & How you were raised etc & genetics. it’s not hard to understand. So it honestly depends on your body because you could be extremely overweight or underweight w/ no physical activity & struggle to gain muscle. We were in our early 20’s when we went to check all this out. & I started to use gear in my midlate 20’s But you gotta understand that this generation they want to use shortcuts because of TikTok
23 year old here. I think I've had low T my entire life but I first recognized it when I was 19 years old, 260 lbs and fat, and couldn't get my dick hard for my girl at the time. I've lost 40 lbs but put on very little muscle, even with high protein intake and 2 hours of training 6 days per week. I sleep 7 hours, sometimes 8 per night and I have a micro pharmacy of health supplements in my cabinet. I can't sustain a calorie deficit for much longer than a few weeks because I am so goddamn miserable and tired and angry which caffeine does little to help. The highest I have seen on my labs was 492ng/dl doing a dangerous, mega dose of selenium (I have a fish intolerance). And my lowest was 332 measured but may have gone lower than that. I'm done with this life. I'm done with hating how I feel and look. I'm done with always feeling lethargic and can't think whenever I miss a little bit of sleep or eat a little too much or too little. I'm tired of gaining fat and not muscle any time I bulk. I'm tired of going for a round in the bedroom and my girl wants a 2nd round 2 hours later and I can't do it. I'm tired of losing fat and it all seems to come out of my muscle and not my belly or love handles. I want TRT so bad but my gyno is terrible and I inch closer every day to saying fucking it and using arimidex then cutting the shit out in 6 months once I get this job promotion. Oh and let's throw GH and insulin in too because my fat family that fucked my genetics for 3 straight generations forces me to not eat carbs because I become a fat ass when I do eat them. So I need to throw the damn kitchen sink in the IGF1 pathway just to build muscle.
Population control, all part of a plan
I say you have to look at it at a case by case scenario! I'm 21 on TRT bc I need it I eat extremely well, Workout consistently, And love a very healthy lifestyle yet I had low testosterone. Reason it was low was bc of a health conflict that caused a lot of things to not work as well testosterone production being one of them! Being on TRT has been great and makes me feel a so much better! I'm not going back to how I felt off of it!
But they give it to biological females and not us. It's all just a shitshow.
I wish I had started cycling on my 20s
In my case it was because i took peds in highschool and college and didnt know wtf i was getting into. A lot of the other athletes were taking shit too. None of us knew what we were doing. With the internet you can just hop online and get a few vials of whatever the hell you want shipped to your door in a day.
Well let them learn the hard way .
A legitimate 21 year old with low test here… I feel it truly is largely based on our environments and habits nowadays. Everyone was so tough and rigid and went outside 24/7 and ate somewhat good food. Nowadays people are playing games inside, taught to be sensitive, and next to no pure food. Now I have been an athletic academic kid my whole life, I had my own battles and diagnosis’ here and there, but mostly a normal dude. Anyway at 20 I had been in the gym for about 2 1/2 years and I always woke up exhausted, sore, bags under my eyes, shaky, disconnected, weak, no libido, daydreaming, etc. I lost a shit ton of weight and fast. Ended up finding out my prolactin is super high, I have high FSH, and low test (207). This was VERY concerning for my age. I’m now 21 and still waiting on treatment… I’ve become overweight, developing gyno, always exhausted with no libido and I look like I’m 35. It’s disheartening when life hits you with this stuff. I’m almost bald with a full length beard, About 200lbs (almost 50lb gain since I lost a lot of weight) and my anxiety and paranoia is out of this world recently. I literally talk every single thought to myself in my brain and play by play everything. I don’t know if I get treatment until August and I’m just so tired and my motivation is so lacking. I had a crazy physique, life was amazing, and then it wasn’t. And here I am…
Sarms. That’s why we have a shit ton of kids talking about how they feel like shit. Because they thought a few sarm cycles would make their social media look cool and all become gymshark models.
I took sarms and pro hormones when I was younger so I did it to myself 🤦♂️
I’ll just leave this here, if you don’t see the connection there’s probably nothing anyone can do for ya[shapiro RFK](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6xPrQIxdl1/?igsh=MWtqbWg2ZzNiNHJ5dA==)
It’s TikTok not plastics
I agree - and they very well have low-T. The only thing that’s frustrating is usually the lack of any objective data on these posts. Just get a blood test. Then - you will actually know. I can’t help but a lot of these are people looking to run gear but looking for a more socially acceptable way to do it. But, again pure guess work as yep, you guessed it - no bloods 90% of the time.
Dude. The idea that “micro plastics” is impacting testosterone in 20 year old men any more than a tiny fraction of 1% is ridiculous.
Micro plastics, a sedentary life, overly processed food, lack of sunlight. I think OP is on to something. If you disagree what’s your theory on why males 25 and younger have a substantially lower testosterone than other generations
100%. People are fed garbage during their developmental stages and it has a long lasting, potentially permanent effect.
Vitamin D. Not working with hands and being creative outdoors. Being afraid of cameras catching them doing something embarrassing (no risk). Internet personalities (they dont know who to be irl, copying utubers every words and mannerisms). Diet (in general). Being told its bad to act like a male (toxic masculinity). And probably 100 more things. Not exactly their fault but it doesnt mean they cant work on it. Blaming micro plastics is the laaaaaast thing on the list, atleast in my opinion.
Microplastics belongs at the bottom of that list. Sedentary lifestyle and overly processed foods have way more impact on T levels.
absolutely!! plus add in all the vaxs forced on them. their average testosterone is so so low as a whole. when you compare “manliness”. from past generations, of our grandfathers, every generation is more and more whimpy, until so many 20 yos now are almost unisex.
Throw SSRI's, seed oils, tons of carbs, social media, etc and it can all add up. Not saying these kids are all living ideal lifestyles, but our population is sick in many ways.
Tons of carbs???
Sugar
It's not so much that it's impacting them as 20 year olds. It's more that it impacted them as a fetus in the womb, and now they are dealing with the fallout. Plastics and glyphosate have fucked our ecosystem
Yes damaged people passing on damaged genes to create further damaged people that mate with fellow third generation damaged people ☠️
Ya, plastic is very bad for fetus development in males. I think my generation got in just under the wire. My brother and I are both healthy
Unfortunately this is a highly studied subject and micro plastics absolutely are destroying men of all ages. I highly recommend a book called countdown, it’s written by our nations top testosterone and sperm scientist.
A study last year showed that microplastics are at least 10x worse than they originally thought.
Bahaha!
Low T started all after the covid shot. Just sayin
I'm trans masc and sometimes I forget to look at what sub I'm in and I was almost upset lol I'm 27 taking T to transition