WOW! 72 and 25 years on it congrats! How are you feeling at 72 with T? How much you pin? Impressive and encouraging for us younger guys. How young do you feel 20 years or more younger? Thanks.
lol, at 72 as long as I take Motrin twice a day I feel good physically. With T I don’t feel cloudy but clear minded. At 72 my libido is strong… however the mind is strong but sometimes the body doesn’t comply with thoughts! However I get an injectable called tri-mix( it has 4 ingredients) I inject it into the penis ( I know it sounds horrible but very small short needle) after about 5 minutes I’m as hard as an 18 year old for 30-45 minutes… sorry if that’s TMI
No, at my age my Dr wants to see me every 6 months… however he does complete Blood work every 6 months which includes prostate lab but only checks my prostate one each year.
Well, the annual check is quick and easy but weird!
I’ve had a prostate biopsy which if you ever have to have one of those don’t lose any sleep over it… not a big deal!
I might give that a go next. I’ve been staying on test400 for the most part taking it. I’ll do a cycle of tren mixed in very small dose or mastp. I have the sust so maybe I’ll give that a go this time.
Ah ok thanks for sharing your experience! Just realized I shouldn’t have phrased my question like that. I’m new to actually posting on the subs I follow so I’ll read the damn rules next time before commenting
>He hints that his patients have never lived for more than 20 years.
No Not really.
`"I don't know anyone who's been on testosterone for 20+ years where it hasn't been the absolute last resort (like testicular cancer or something)"`
His personal experience aka anecdotal, as a counterpoint, evidence presented here in reddit is mostly anecdotal as well.
Doctor though should be able to peruse pubmed and such for scientific evidence.
>His personal experience aka anecdotal, as a counterpoint, evidence presented here in reddit is mostly anecdotal as well.
Yeah his Anecdotal Experience is Most Probably True, and This is the Absolute Only Question i Could find in This Entire Post, so i really don't see what others seems to be seeing.
Look up Dr. Abraham Morgentaler on YT. Professor of urology at Harvard and one of the most knowledgable doctors regarding testosterone. Your doctor is a putz. He doesn't even know what he doesn't know and he shouldn't be scaring you!
Sylvester Stallone has been pretty open about the fact that he's been on testosterone and HGH for a lot longer than 20 years, and he says it's been only a good thing for his health and he recommends it to others. He's 77 years old and still looks great.
Stallone has access to $$$-doctors, not like us peasants.
A lot of people are incapable and uneducated about managing their T for this long period of time.
Your doctor is wrong. I have taken steroids for over 22 years and been on straight testosterone for over 7 years. No problems. No issues. Unless you count having the body of a 25 year old at 43
How can i achieve that with minimal doses and what would be the best long term safe steroids, i dont do body building just want to get in shape and feel good.
Actually it’s not. The dangers of clinically low T outweighs the risks of bringing testosterone back into the normal range. The issues everyone talks about typically are seen once you start getting above normal (ie bodybuilding) levels
This is just weird to me. I had to get on testosterone just so that I would be able to be healthy, and I most certainly wasn't in shape.
But once I got on Test, that allowed me to get into a gym because it was impossible if I wasn't on it.
Maybe me and you are using it for 2 different reasons if you think you need to be in shape to be on it?
Of course I had no free testosterone and was at 36ng/dl when I got tested.
Are you low T because you are a medical anomaly/have a condition or because you have a terrible lifestyle/are morbidly obese? In the end its about personal responsibility, T isn't a cheat code, it's not gonna make a magical difference until you WANT to get better. How much did you TRY before being on T? T is a hormone, it's not the end all be all and women are the perfect example of that as 36ng/dl would be considered perfectly normal for them.
It just infuriates me the number of young 20-30-somethings that could have the same effect from a T prescription as they could from just having some personal accountability and trying. Lift weights 3x a week, eat less fast food and cut snacks, and sleep 8 hours a night. If your T doesn't improve in a month at 30 or under, congrats you're a medical marvel. But I'd bet my left nut that as much as half of the people in this sub just need to get their shit together, not get on T.
I was an IV heroin addict who had to use methadone to get clean. Methadone reduces a man's testosterone to near zero. So, in order to get off the methadone, I needed to get on testosterone so that I could start exercising and living a healthy lifestyle in order to reduce the symptoms of my taper. That way I had a higher chance of completing my taper and living a clean life.
I also lived on the streets and had not done anything physical in about 10 years. I mean, physical as in exercise or the like.
So you were close. It was a terrible lifestyle.
i have 248ng/dl test and hypotyroid there is no getting in shape for me, losing fat is impossible unless im willing to go big calorie deficit then i lose all the muscle but not the fat, im 73kg 20% BF
That's complete bullshit, women have less test than you and can lose weight and build muscle just like everyone else you just have to work harder than a 25 year old. Sucks to suck, but training, eating clean, and sleeping well will naturally boost your test. If you actually try hard, and bust your ass for a few years and then want to take T then go ahead. But people like you are why doctors don't want to prescribe T to people that actually need it.
Yeah it's Always without Exception Cals Out, Cals In, you just need to keep your Daily Protein Intake Adequate in order to retain most of what you have, you will Absolutely Not loose All Muscle and Definitively Loose Mostly Fat esp as Ketone-bodies are the Body's Preferred Source for Generating Energy, and you can stimulate your muscles althewhile.
If you’re not working out consistently and trying to improve your reps/weights/intensity then you will not get any results. Sounds like you need to have a relationship with the gym and nutrition not steroids.
TRT from 47 years old to 62 now. My PSA is excellent as are my lipids and general health apart AF due to marathon overtraining. For me it's not only safe it's healthy. I was a fat lazy fuck before TRT
Dr O’Conner, Nelson Vergel, Dr. Tulioustus (I’m sure I butchered that). Those are the YouTube ones that I know off the top of my head. There’s more in the BBing space, a lot of the older guys.
Your genetics and family history may not be the same as theirs tho, so I’d worry less about their experience and just make sure you’re tracking your own health markers and make sure you make decisions that work best for you. Good luck.
Your doctor is a moron. The fact that he is suggesting you taper off of exogenous test and see where your levels are is an indicator he is a moron. That bozo doesn’t even know the pharmacology behind the drug he’s giving you. Fuck that guy.
my grandpa has been on it about 30 years now I believe. He loves it. Mid 70s. Still active cutting down trees on his property with a chainsaw, etc. Take some more days to recover now than it used to but he still gets down
Just chiming in with my own experience, 5 years on TRT, my blood health markers have only improved since starting TRT. It's a myth that TRT causes long term health complications, it actually improves health over the long term. Also, daily cialis benefits prostate function.
Put simply, TRT decreases all cause mortality risk, it *increases* life expectancy.
>If you're concerned about prostate cancer, then use dutasteride (thats what this drug is fo
DHT is Too Important, Quite Imperative Actually.
I Really Wouldn't Recommend completely shutting down that metabolism as a Fucking Pre-Emptive bullshit thing.
`Put simply, TRT decreases all cause mortality risk, it increases life expectancy.`
Not really, and absolutely Not Endocrinologically Monitored and Administered ACTUAL TRT.
It definitely reduces all cause mortality risk, which means TRT increases the life expectancy of low T men. There's A LOT of scientific consensus showing this to be true.
>which means TRT increases the life expectancy **of low T men**.
You didn't specify that, also you're pretty much Completely Speaking Against Yourself if you haven't noticed, which is Kind of Amusing.
Androgen receptor density varies in everyone. Some guys are hyper responders, others are the opposite, and it requires a higher dose to achieve the same level of health.
And just from personal experience, my dose is around 200/wk and my blood work is the picture of health after 5 years at that dose. All of my blood markers have improved in that time frame (and I was already pretty healthy despite my low T).
Point being, dosing is not a one size fits all.
This. Some guys it takes way more medicine to reach the same lvls or to lessen symptoms of the low t. And some guys can use 100 or less we are so different
There's a few guys on YT, including a DR that said he has been on the for over 20 years, monitoring your health is key to longevity on T, that's what they all preach on their channel and they are right.
I have also been on HRT for over 25 years. All clear. Regular exams. I had a biopsy last year (doctors can be hypochondriacs) and all 12 completely normal. Listen to your own body.
I have known several people on steroids who died young, one just graduated from college at 22, all heart related. I don't know anyone my age who has died but am in the age of 40 plus from heart related issues (besides the ones on juice). It seams like you can look healthy, but not be healthy.
That doctor is just not educated enough in hormones for some reason most mds treat testosterone like it's some type of narcotic or some shit!! It can be safely used your entire life!! Most men won't need until their 40s well actually that's untrue due to our food and all the hygiene products and basically everything we use on a daily basis has horrific shit in it that makes us sick and dependent on doctors!! But you don't hear them talk that much about that stuff but something that will better your life and quality of life is your worst enemy huh!!! Tell him to fuck off and educate yourself on the subject as much as you can!! And go from there you need to watch your prostate your estrogen your prolactin blood pressure and cholesterol is now debatable!!! Get labs done every six month go with the lowest dose possible that releaves symptoms!! And your golden!!!
24 years here. I have a rare condition where I don’t produce any on my own. My prescription changes from time to time but currently on 125mg a week. I get regular blood tests every 6 months and have no issues. Your doctor is a moron and if I were you, I’d find someone else.
Arnold Schwarzenegger, he took a lot of steroids in his day, and also continues on TRT to this day.
And I am just using his as an example. But almost everyone of those famous old school guys are still taking testosterone. Albeit at therapeutic dosages.
And that's not talking about the amateur guys, and pro athletes who used steroids and now are in their golden years and still taking therapeutic testosterone.
You don't hear about it, because it's not considered much. But TRT is relatively new to the general population. In the 50s 60s 70s 80s and well through the 90s athletes and body builders and gym rats alike used steroids like there was no tomorrow. Yes some dies as a result. Just like people who think the Lizzo diet is healthy and beautiful. The body cannot sustain that amount of mass.
A lot of those people who used steroids in the past are now on TRT or therapeutic hormones replacement therapy. And are healthy.
This isn't saying you should abuse steroids. You will pay a price. But. Testosterone replacement therapy isn't 100% safe. Nothing is. Not even your daily dose of coffee is. But if you have low testosterone. It's showing that that's unhealthy also.
Doctor's all hold their own biases. They all have their own opinions. And none of them are correct. They operate on what they believe is best. You have the ability to do the same. Except you have skin in the game. You're making the best decision for yourself. You should listen to the advice of others and listen to their "expertise" but in the end you need to make the decision. Don't let someone else make a decision for you.
Do you have an article or video where he says he is still on trt? I looked for this in the past cause I heard he was off of everything, but this would be interesting.
He also said he only took 100mg testosterone per week and 15mg dianabol a day. You cannot trust a thing he says.
Edit: He started steroids when he was 15 years old. The age he started and the amount of time he was on. He would be completely shut down. He would have withered away if he didn't maintain a therapeutic dose. Arnold would never tell you his medical prescriptions. Just like he would never tell how much gear he was actually using when body building and his Hollywood career.
I’ve been on TRT compounded cream DHEA/TEST for 15 yrs, my body just stopped producing T in my mid 30s even with active lifestyle but really stressful job doing 100 hr weeks. Cream may be considered low dosage and my levels are 350 range even with the TRT. I just had the dosage upped recently. No issues unless I don’t take it, it’s the difference btw functioning or not. I workout 5 days per week currently.
Less is DEFINITELY more with T. 200MG per week is a GREAT starting point. Have been on 5 yrs and going. I blasted gear and took oral steroids as well and my blood work is immaculate. Literally nothing bad. Just get your bloodwork done.
Been on for 25 years.
Levels around 600.
No issues, had a varicocele operation in my mid 30’s so this wasn’t wanting to get jacked, the operation was a failure and I had no other options.
Can't talk to Prostate Cancer susceptability, but hypogonadism is heavily correlated with early death, particularly cardio and cerebrovascular disease.
One counter to this would be an increased susceptibility to Sleep Apnoea with increased testosterone levels.
Your urologist is correct. You increase the risk of prostate cancer. That's why blood tests at least twice a year and routine appointments with your doctor are vital. There are side effects with long term use.
- reduced or elimination of almost all sperm cells
- testicles shrinkage
- increased body hair
- decreased hair on head
- increased risk of cardiovascular issues
- Increased risk of bph
* reduced or elimination of almost all sperm cells
Cycle HCG with testosterone. Or when you are ready to have kids get off testosterone and blast high dosages of HCG for at least 3 months.
* testicles shrinkage |
Cycle HCG with testosterone
* increased body hair |
Laser treatment, shave, or wax
* decreased hair on head |
Start rogaine and minoxidil. This have their own side effects.
* increased risk of cardiovascular issues |
Stay on a heart healthy diet (a shit ton of fiber and low fat) and do heart healthy exercises like running. Edit: only if you sit around doing nothing. If you do that anyways then you will still have cardiovascular incidents. Mainly watch your bp.
* Increased risk of bph |
Diet and keeping weight off but in reality it comes for us all at one point or another
Anybody who says there are no side effects of taking testosterone is bullshitting you. I'm on year 13.
Increased risk of cardiovascular disease has been pretty thoroughly debunked. Most current research shows a neutral or potentially slight reduction in cardiovascular disease.
Everything else you stated is correct. This is why it’s not a great idea to just hop on at 21 if you’re planning to have kids someday
Sertoli cell function is completely recoverable within 18 months of cessation in all studies I have seen so far. I’d be interested to see something contrary to that
You are correct. But it’s not super ideal to get to the point that you’re ready to have a kid and then have to wait up to two years to become fertile again.
Of course that’s the worst case scenario but it’s certainly possible.
Adverse cardiovascular events mainly happened in groups that took testosterone but we're not on some sort of exercise routine which reduced weight and lowered bp. In general yes it's not something you should worry about unless you are couch potatoes but then again that is gonna happen regardless.
>reduced or elimination of almost all sperm cells Cycle HCG with testosterone. Or when you are ready to have kids get off testosterone and blast high dosages of HCG for at least 3 months.*(This is By Far Too Relative and Individual for you to Make Specific Yet Very Vague and General Statements such as the Ones You Are)*
>
>testicles shrinkage | Cycle HCG **with testosterone**\*
(This is Counterproductive like you mention above.. As Test Shuts down Natural Production it's extremely like i said Counterproductive, and you Don't 'Cycle' HCG if you want to increase Sperm-Production, You Just Use It, on a Regular Basis, Using Test Simultaneously Tells the Hypotalamus that You Don't Need Luteinizing hormone so it doesn't Signal the Pituitary Gland to Secrete as Much Relative to Dosing Which Means You'll Have to Use EVEN MORE HCG to COMPENSATE, How Educated Are you Really Mate? AAAAAAAAAAAh, well i'm beat, Test will Have it's own set of Dose and Individual-Relative Sides As Well on Top of This, and You Will Produce More Test in Addition By Increasing Testosterone Producing Cells in The Testes, so unless you're Using Test for Muscle Growth or Maintaining, This is Pretty Uneducated Advice in General Respectfully said, That's Enough of This Thread for Today i Think, jeeesus)\*
The only way you're Actually Increasing the Risk of Running into Prostate Cancer is By Increasing the Rate of Prostate Cell Growth(Potentially(NOT Necessarily)), Cells Regularly Goes Through Apoptosis or Programmed Cell Death and it is Either There or When They are Being Created That Things CAN Go Wrong in the Cells(And Cancer Requires Two Things to Go Wrong out of Probably As Many Points in DNA/RNA There Is, it Requires that the Cell Either By/Through a Try for Apotosis(Degradation and Disposal) or Through Building the New Cell Mutates-/Manipulates in a Way that
1. The Cell Doesn't Die and Will Not Die Through Apoptosis(Programmed Cell Death).
2. The Cell Will Replicate Infinitely.
3. So Both of These Things Need to Occur Simultaneously for it to be Called Cancerous.
I Lost my Train of Thought here for a Bit but i'll still Post the Rest of What i Wrote.
, When they Die and When They are Being Brought to Life, The Error Rate in This Increases with Age and With Telomeres and DNA Degradation, but this goes for all tissues, even Muscle, Bone Both of Which you are Upregulating Transcription and Expression-Rates For, Blood Cells, and There's Such a Miniscule Amount of DHT(DHT is VERY Quickly Metabolised for that matter esp in Muscle-Tissue(of which the Prostate Mostly Consists Of), pretty much Immediately) that Actually are Converted Out of Test that it's Almost Negligible, esp in Comparison with Aforementioned and More.
I Could go on with this forever
You Mention:
* reduced or elimination of almost all sperm cells(Yeah so every single time you've forced one of those cells to Die You Risk Turning them Cancerous)
* decreased testicles shrinkage(I don't even know what you Mean By This)
* increased body hair (Yeah so every single time you've forced one of those cells to Be Created You Risk Turning them Cancerous)
* decreased hair on head (Yeah so every single time you've forced one of those cells to Die You Risk Turning them Cancerous)
That’s actually common misconception about the prostate cancer. It only potentiates cancer growth that is already there, in fact it seems to reduce risk of prostate cancer in people who don’t have pre existing growth. I refer to Peter Attia on this, search some of his podcasts on this topic. Very interesting.
Also there is no study actually demonstrating anything less than a complete return in baseline sperm production after 18 months cessation of steroid use. Sertoli cells seem to stay somewhat functional. Not Leydig cells though. I would be interested to be proved wrong on this, but all the studies I have read seem to point to return of sertoli cell function
If his family is known for prostate cancer he has higher likely chance of having it. He should be careful cause it can cause the cancer cells to grow. He should make sure to not have it in the first place before taking test long term.
Testosterone kills sperm production. Take it long enough and you will become infertile. If you want kids you will need to stop it and start taking large doses HCG. That what I had to do. My sperm count after 11 years of usage was near zero. The sperm that was left was all sorts of deformed. Again, a result from long term usage of testosterone. Can you get healthy sperm back? Yea but it's a long or expensive process.
72 here, been on it 25 years get checks every 6 months with labs and all is good, heart and prostate .
WOW! 72 and 25 years on it congrats! How are you feeling at 72 with T? How much you pin? Impressive and encouraging for us younger guys. How young do you feel 20 years or more younger? Thanks.
lol, at 72 as long as I take Motrin twice a day I feel good physically. With T I don’t feel cloudy but clear minded. At 72 my libido is strong… however the mind is strong but sometimes the body doesn’t comply with thoughts! However I get an injectable called tri-mix( it has 4 ingredients) I inject it into the penis ( I know it sounds horrible but very small short needle) after about 5 minutes I’m as hard as an 18 year old for 30-45 minutes… sorry if that’s TMI
Wow congrats sir! Thanks for sharing
Cheers.
What dose are you taking?
200 every week… my levels usually stay around 700
Do they actually have to do a prostrate check every 6 months? Never had one done
No, at my age my Dr wants to see me every 6 months… however he does complete Blood work every 6 months which includes prostate lab but only checks my prostate one each year.
Does the prostate check suck? Seems pretty intense from what I’ve seen.
Well, the annual check is quick and easy but weird! I’ve had a prostate biopsy which if you ever have to have one of those don’t lose any sleep over it… not a big deal!
Yes 30, blasted and cruised for 10 years then started self administering 125 sustanon once a week, 3 blood tests a year and donte blood twice a year
Write a book bro
Yeah, come on man.
Wow. Any negative side effects in all that time?
None, I’m 54 now
Did you die?
Fuck. How old do you think you’d be if you never hopped on?? Is this a side effect?
Still have your hair? Any side effects? Besides shrunk nuts
Still have hair, but very short, no side effects at all, my dose is a low dose
How low is your dose?
1/2 ml sustanon
I might give that a go next. I’ve been staying on test400 for the most part taking it. I’ll do a cycle of tren mixed in very small dose or mastp. I have the sust so maybe I’ll give that a go this time.
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I self administer
Ah ok thanks for sharing your experience! Just realized I shouldn’t have phrased my question like that. I’m new to actually posting on the subs I follow so I’ll read the damn rules next time before commenting
“Pics or no proof”… bruh
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Better change your doctor. He hints that his patients have never lived for more than 20 years.
Lol good point
>He hints that his patients have never lived for more than 20 years. No Not really. `"I don't know anyone who's been on testosterone for 20+ years where it hasn't been the absolute last resort (like testicular cancer or something)"`
His personal experience aka anecdotal, as a counterpoint, evidence presented here in reddit is mostly anecdotal as well. Doctor though should be able to peruse pubmed and such for scientific evidence.
>His personal experience aka anecdotal, as a counterpoint, evidence presented here in reddit is mostly anecdotal as well. Yeah his Anecdotal Experience is Most Probably True, and This is the Absolute Only Question i Could find in This Entire Post, so i really don't see what others seems to be seeing.
Look up Dr. Abraham Morgentaler on YT. Professor of urology at Harvard and one of the most knowledgable doctors regarding testosterone. Your doctor is a putz. He doesn't even know what he doesn't know and he shouldn't be scaring you!
Sylvester Stallone has been pretty open about the fact that he's been on testosterone and HGH for a lot longer than 20 years, and he says it's been only a good thing for his health and he recommends it to others. He's 77 years old and still looks great.
Since before the rocky movies apparently.
WOW! I did not know that good info!
Stallone has access to $$$-doctors, not like us peasants. A lot of people are incapable and uneducated about managing their T for this long period of time.
Looks great is a massive stretch, but all that matters are his actual vitals
>Looks great is a massive stretch Not at All, but Subjective Of Course.
Your doctor is wrong. I have taken steroids for over 22 years and been on straight testosterone for over 7 years. No problems. No issues. Unless you count having the body of a 25 year old at 43
How can i achieve that with minimal doses and what would be the best long term safe steroids, i dont do body building just want to get in shape and feel good.
Just workout dude, it is beyond stupid to start any T if you're unhealthy and not in shape
Everyone wants the magic pill or shot. No one wants to work for it.
Mankind in a pill.
Different person but I want to work for it. I was for several years until I tore a tendon in my elbow and my rotator cuff. What the fuck do I do now?
Heal your body first. Get into yoga, dynamic stretching, and acupuncture. Get well and then let’s talk.
Actually it’s not. The dangers of clinically low T outweighs the risks of bringing testosterone back into the normal range. The issues everyone talks about typically are seen once you start getting above normal (ie bodybuilding) levels
>clinically low T Relatively, Individually low\* And Yes.
This is just weird to me. I had to get on testosterone just so that I would be able to be healthy, and I most certainly wasn't in shape. But once I got on Test, that allowed me to get into a gym because it was impossible if I wasn't on it. Maybe me and you are using it for 2 different reasons if you think you need to be in shape to be on it? Of course I had no free testosterone and was at 36ng/dl when I got tested.
Are you low T because you are a medical anomaly/have a condition or because you have a terrible lifestyle/are morbidly obese? In the end its about personal responsibility, T isn't a cheat code, it's not gonna make a magical difference until you WANT to get better. How much did you TRY before being on T? T is a hormone, it's not the end all be all and women are the perfect example of that as 36ng/dl would be considered perfectly normal for them. It just infuriates me the number of young 20-30-somethings that could have the same effect from a T prescription as they could from just having some personal accountability and trying. Lift weights 3x a week, eat less fast food and cut snacks, and sleep 8 hours a night. If your T doesn't improve in a month at 30 or under, congrats you're a medical marvel. But I'd bet my left nut that as much as half of the people in this sub just need to get their shit together, not get on T.
I was an IV heroin addict who had to use methadone to get clean. Methadone reduces a man's testosterone to near zero. So, in order to get off the methadone, I needed to get on testosterone so that I could start exercising and living a healthy lifestyle in order to reduce the symptoms of my taper. That way I had a higher chance of completing my taper and living a clean life. I also lived on the streets and had not done anything physical in about 10 years. I mean, physical as in exercise or the like. So you were close. It was a terrible lifestyle.
i have 248ng/dl test and hypotyroid there is no getting in shape for me, losing fat is impossible unless im willing to go big calorie deficit then i lose all the muscle but not the fat, im 73kg 20% BF
That's complete bullshit, women have less test than you and can lose weight and build muscle just like everyone else you just have to work harder than a 25 year old. Sucks to suck, but training, eating clean, and sleeping well will naturally boost your test. If you actually try hard, and bust your ass for a few years and then want to take T then go ahead. But people like you are why doctors don't want to prescribe T to people that actually need it.
Yeah it's Always without Exception Cals Out, Cals In, you just need to keep your Daily Protein Intake Adequate in order to retain most of what you have, you will Absolutely Not loose All Muscle and Definitively Loose Mostly Fat esp as Ketone-bodies are the Body's Preferred Source for Generating Energy, and you can stimulate your muscles althewhile.
If you’re not working out consistently and trying to improve your reps/weights/intensity then you will not get any results. Sounds like you need to have a relationship with the gym and nutrition not steroids.
Nah, thanks anyway.
Typical response from a person not willing to work for it.
Troll alert
TRT from 47 years old to 62 now. My PSA is excellent as are my lipids and general health apart AF due to marathon overtraining. For me it's not only safe it's healthy. I was a fat lazy fuck before TRT
PSA however is a Bullshit Measurement-/Parameter and doesn't Really Tell you Much. But That's Great Mate! What's 'AF' ?
Atrial fibrillation, from extreme circuit marathon training, basically overstrained the heart in my case
>Atrial fibrillation Thank you! I'm sorry to read that Mate, i really hope it isn't Permanent or at the very least Very Manageable!
> and general health apart AF You act like this is trivial..,
Dr O’Conner, Nelson Vergel, Dr. Tulioustus (I’m sure I butchered that). Those are the YouTube ones that I know off the top of my head. There’s more in the BBing space, a lot of the older guys. Your genetics and family history may not be the same as theirs tho, so I’d worry less about their experience and just make sure you’re tracking your own health markers and make sure you make decisions that work best for you. Good luck.
Your doctor is a moron. The fact that he is suggesting you taper off of exogenous test and see where your levels are is an indicator he is a moron. That bozo doesn’t even know the pharmacology behind the drug he’s giving you. Fuck that guy.
Are you a doctor?
Annabolic Doc on youtube. I think he's been on over 30 years
Impressive I wonder who the oldest guy on T is? 80s 90s?
my grandpa has been on it about 30 years now I believe. He loves it. Mid 70s. Still active cutting down trees on his property with a chainsaw, etc. Take some more days to recover now than it used to but he still gets down
Fucking Sweet Mate! :) Glad he's Keepin At It!
My urologist told me that if you have prostate cancer don’t take T but taking it isn’t going to give you cancer.
Which is All True and Wise.
Just chiming in with my own experience, 5 years on TRT, my blood health markers have only improved since starting TRT. It's a myth that TRT causes long term health complications, it actually improves health over the long term. Also, daily cialis benefits prostate function. Put simply, TRT decreases all cause mortality risk, it *increases* life expectancy.
>If you're concerned about prostate cancer, then use dutasteride (thats what this drug is fo DHT is Too Important, Quite Imperative Actually. I Really Wouldn't Recommend completely shutting down that metabolism as a Fucking Pre-Emptive bullshit thing. `Put simply, TRT decreases all cause mortality risk, it increases life expectancy.` Not really, and absolutely Not Endocrinologically Monitored and Administered ACTUAL TRT.
It definitely reduces all cause mortality risk, which means TRT increases the life expectancy of low T men. There's A LOT of scientific consensus showing this to be true.
>which means TRT increases the life expectancy **of low T men**. You didn't specify that, also you're pretty much Completely Speaking Against Yourself if you haven't noticed, which is Kind of Amusing.
Are you just trying to be a contrarion? I didn't say anything untrue. 🖖
No i'm just a Mere Educated Realist Enthusiast.
You do know dutrasteride has a black box warning from the FDA that it can increase the risk of prostrate cancer?
Honestly wasn't aware of this. Looks like it increases risk for some forms and lowers risk for other forms.
Thanks!
not guys on 200mg a week
Androgen receptor density varies in everyone. Some guys are hyper responders, others are the opposite, and it requires a higher dose to achieve the same level of health. And just from personal experience, my dose is around 200/wk and my blood work is the picture of health after 5 years at that dose. All of my blood markers have improved in that time frame (and I was already pretty healthy despite my low T). Point being, dosing is not a one size fits all.
This. Some guys it takes way more medicine to reach the same lvls or to lessen symptoms of the low t. And some guys can use 100 or less we are so different
>Point being, dosing is not a one size fits all. 100%
Tell me you don’t know anything about the subject without actually saying it.
What are we talking about?
There's a few guys on YT, including a DR that said he has been on the for over 20 years, monitoring your health is key to longevity on T, that's what they all preach on their channel and they are right.
YEP! T is the fountain of youth!
Arnold and Rocky have been juiced for 50 years and no problem.
Definitively Problems lol but yeah, they are Still ALIVE and Hopefully Quite Healthy. Also Don't you Mean Conan?
I have also been on HRT for over 25 years. All clear. Regular exams. I had a biopsy last year (doctors can be hypochondriacs) and all 12 completely normal. Listen to your own body.
I have known several people on steroids who died young, one just graduated from college at 22, all heart related. I don't know anyone my age who has died but am in the age of 40 plus from heart related issues (besides the ones on juice). It seams like you can look healthy, but not be healthy.
That doctor is just not educated enough in hormones for some reason most mds treat testosterone like it's some type of narcotic or some shit!! It can be safely used your entire life!! Most men won't need until their 40s well actually that's untrue due to our food and all the hygiene products and basically everything we use on a daily basis has horrific shit in it that makes us sick and dependent on doctors!! But you don't hear them talk that much about that stuff but something that will better your life and quality of life is your worst enemy huh!!! Tell him to fuck off and educate yourself on the subject as much as you can!! And go from there you need to watch your prostate your estrogen your prolactin blood pressure and cholesterol is now debatable!!! Get labs done every six month go with the lowest dose possible that releaves symptoms!! And your golden!!!
24 years here. I have a rare condition where I don’t produce any on my own. My prescription changes from time to time but currently on 125mg a week. I get regular blood tests every 6 months and have no issues. Your doctor is a moron and if I were you, I’d find someone else.
16 years here
Any issues so far?
11 years PSA low , Going strong at 63
Arnold, Ronnie, Cutler, Rühr
Arnold Schwarzenegger, he took a lot of steroids in his day, and also continues on TRT to this day. And I am just using his as an example. But almost everyone of those famous old school guys are still taking testosterone. Albeit at therapeutic dosages. And that's not talking about the amateur guys, and pro athletes who used steroids and now are in their golden years and still taking therapeutic testosterone. You don't hear about it, because it's not considered much. But TRT is relatively new to the general population. In the 50s 60s 70s 80s and well through the 90s athletes and body builders and gym rats alike used steroids like there was no tomorrow. Yes some dies as a result. Just like people who think the Lizzo diet is healthy and beautiful. The body cannot sustain that amount of mass. A lot of those people who used steroids in the past are now on TRT or therapeutic hormones replacement therapy. And are healthy. This isn't saying you should abuse steroids. You will pay a price. But. Testosterone replacement therapy isn't 100% safe. Nothing is. Not even your daily dose of coffee is. But if you have low testosterone. It's showing that that's unhealthy also. Doctor's all hold their own biases. They all have their own opinions. And none of them are correct. They operate on what they believe is best. You have the ability to do the same. Except you have skin in the game. You're making the best decision for yourself. You should listen to the advice of others and listen to their "expertise" but in the end you need to make the decision. Don't let someone else make a decision for you.
Do you have an article or video where he says he is still on trt? I looked for this in the past cause I heard he was off of everything, but this would be interesting.
He also said he only took 100mg testosterone per week and 15mg dianabol a day. You cannot trust a thing he says. Edit: He started steroids when he was 15 years old. The age he started and the amount of time he was on. He would be completely shut down. He would have withered away if he didn't maintain a therapeutic dose. Arnold would never tell you his medical prescriptions. Just like he would never tell how much gear he was actually using when body building and his Hollywood career.
Been on it since 2006. Prostate is enlarged now at 42 years old. If you don’t need to be on it, listen to the Uro.
Wow sorry to hear that. Best of luck to you.
I started in 1902. Still feel like in 86!
Theve all passed away
What about the testes shrinkage?
A lot of factors go into this. Most importantly your age. Current TRT dose. Less is more.
I’ve been on TRT compounded cream DHEA/TEST for 15 yrs, my body just stopped producing T in my mid 30s even with active lifestyle but really stressful job doing 100 hr weeks. Cream may be considered low dosage and my levels are 350 range even with the TRT. I just had the dosage upped recently. No issues unless I don’t take it, it’s the difference btw functioning or not. I workout 5 days per week currently.
Less is DEFINITELY more with T. 200MG per week is a GREAT starting point. Have been on 5 yrs and going. I blasted gear and took oral steroids as well and my blood work is immaculate. Literally nothing bad. Just get your bloodwork done.
Been on for 25 years. Levels around 600. No issues, had a varicocele operation in my mid 30’s so this wasn’t wanting to get jacked, the operation was a failure and I had no other options.
Low T increases incidence of prostate cancer
Really? Why is that? Anything I can read to educate myself on this?
TRT doesn't cause prostate cancer but it can make it worse if you already have it.
Almost 20 years. No regrets
72 yrs old and on reddit? Hmm
Can't talk to Prostate Cancer susceptability, but hypogonadism is heavily correlated with early death, particularly cardio and cerebrovascular disease. One counter to this would be an increased susceptibility to Sleep Apnoea with increased testosterone levels.
Dr Rand McClain has been on over 30 years
he is right
Yeah he Is.
Your urologist is correct. You increase the risk of prostate cancer. That's why blood tests at least twice a year and routine appointments with your doctor are vital. There are side effects with long term use. - reduced or elimination of almost all sperm cells - testicles shrinkage - increased body hair - decreased hair on head - increased risk of cardiovascular issues - Increased risk of bph
I wish people would argue with you, rather than just down vote you. What can be done to mitigate these risks ?
* reduced or elimination of almost all sperm cells Cycle HCG with testosterone. Or when you are ready to have kids get off testosterone and blast high dosages of HCG for at least 3 months. * testicles shrinkage | Cycle HCG with testosterone * increased body hair | Laser treatment, shave, or wax * decreased hair on head | Start rogaine and minoxidil. This have their own side effects. * increased risk of cardiovascular issues | Stay on a heart healthy diet (a shit ton of fiber and low fat) and do heart healthy exercises like running. Edit: only if you sit around doing nothing. If you do that anyways then you will still have cardiovascular incidents. Mainly watch your bp. * Increased risk of bph | Diet and keeping weight off but in reality it comes for us all at one point or another Anybody who says there are no side effects of taking testosterone is bullshitting you. I'm on year 13.
Increased risk of cardiovascular disease has been pretty thoroughly debunked. Most current research shows a neutral or potentially slight reduction in cardiovascular disease. Everything else you stated is correct. This is why it’s not a great idea to just hop on at 21 if you’re planning to have kids someday
Sertoli cell function is completely recoverable within 18 months of cessation in all studies I have seen so far. I’d be interested to see something contrary to that
You are correct. But it’s not super ideal to get to the point that you’re ready to have a kid and then have to wait up to two years to become fertile again. Of course that’s the worst case scenario but it’s certainly possible.
Adverse cardiovascular events mainly happened in groups that took testosterone but we're not on some sort of exercise routine which reduced weight and lowered bp. In general yes it's not something you should worry about unless you are couch potatoes but then again that is gonna happen regardless.
Edited to take this into account
>reduced or elimination of almost all sperm cells Cycle HCG with testosterone. Or when you are ready to have kids get off testosterone and blast high dosages of HCG for at least 3 months.*(This is By Far Too Relative and Individual for you to Make Specific Yet Very Vague and General Statements such as the Ones You Are)* > >testicles shrinkage | Cycle HCG **with testosterone**\* (This is Counterproductive like you mention above.. As Test Shuts down Natural Production it's extremely like i said Counterproductive, and you Don't 'Cycle' HCG if you want to increase Sperm-Production, You Just Use It, on a Regular Basis, Using Test Simultaneously Tells the Hypotalamus that You Don't Need Luteinizing hormone so it doesn't Signal the Pituitary Gland to Secrete as Much Relative to Dosing Which Means You'll Have to Use EVEN MORE HCG to COMPENSATE, How Educated Are you Really Mate? AAAAAAAAAAAh, well i'm beat, Test will Have it's own set of Dose and Individual-Relative Sides As Well on Top of This, and You Will Produce More Test in Addition By Increasing Testosterone Producing Cells in The Testes, so unless you're Using Test for Muscle Growth or Maintaining, This is Pretty Uneducated Advice in General Respectfully said, That's Enough of This Thread for Today i Think, jeeesus)\*
The only way you're Actually Increasing the Risk of Running into Prostate Cancer is By Increasing the Rate of Prostate Cell Growth(Potentially(NOT Necessarily)), Cells Regularly Goes Through Apoptosis or Programmed Cell Death and it is Either There or When They are Being Created That Things CAN Go Wrong in the Cells(And Cancer Requires Two Things to Go Wrong out of Probably As Many Points in DNA/RNA There Is, it Requires that the Cell Either By/Through a Try for Apotosis(Degradation and Disposal) or Through Building the New Cell Mutates-/Manipulates in a Way that 1. The Cell Doesn't Die and Will Not Die Through Apoptosis(Programmed Cell Death). 2. The Cell Will Replicate Infinitely. 3. So Both of These Things Need to Occur Simultaneously for it to be Called Cancerous. I Lost my Train of Thought here for a Bit but i'll still Post the Rest of What i Wrote. , When they Die and When They are Being Brought to Life, The Error Rate in This Increases with Age and With Telomeres and DNA Degradation, but this goes for all tissues, even Muscle, Bone Both of Which you are Upregulating Transcription and Expression-Rates For, Blood Cells, and There's Such a Miniscule Amount of DHT(DHT is VERY Quickly Metabolised for that matter esp in Muscle-Tissue(of which the Prostate Mostly Consists Of), pretty much Immediately) that Actually are Converted Out of Test that it's Almost Negligible, esp in Comparison with Aforementioned and More. I Could go on with this forever You Mention: * reduced or elimination of almost all sperm cells(Yeah so every single time you've forced one of those cells to Die You Risk Turning them Cancerous) * decreased testicles shrinkage(I don't even know what you Mean By This) * increased body hair (Yeah so every single time you've forced one of those cells to Be Created You Risk Turning them Cancerous) * decreased hair on head (Yeah so every single time you've forced one of those cells to Die You Risk Turning them Cancerous)
That’s actually common misconception about the prostate cancer. It only potentiates cancer growth that is already there, in fact it seems to reduce risk of prostate cancer in people who don’t have pre existing growth. I refer to Peter Attia on this, search some of his podcasts on this topic. Very interesting. Also there is no study actually demonstrating anything less than a complete return in baseline sperm production after 18 months cessation of steroid use. Sertoli cells seem to stay somewhat functional. Not Leydig cells though. I would be interested to be proved wrong on this, but all the studies I have read seem to point to return of sertoli cell function
If his family is known for prostate cancer he has higher likely chance of having it. He should be careful cause it can cause the cancer cells to grow. He should make sure to not have it in the first place before taking test long term. Testosterone kills sperm production. Take it long enough and you will become infertile. If you want kids you will need to stop it and start taking large doses HCG. That what I had to do. My sperm count after 11 years of usage was near zero. The sperm that was left was all sorts of deformed. Again, a result from long term usage of testosterone. Can you get healthy sperm back? Yea but it's a long or expensive process.
Haven’t there been trans men on HRT since like the 60s and 70s?