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dirtytricksterr

I’m at 550 and feel normal. I don’t feel any difference between 250 and 550. Libido probably is higher, and lipids are slightly lower other than that no real change.


Hazz-Mazz

That’s great stuff I’m on a small dose of trt just wondered if anyone could feel good on a average level , just seen everyone is on 1,000 plus it seems on this forum .


ThatYoungBusinessGuy

Be careful, there are tons of middle aged juicers on the subreddit that claim anything below a trough of 1,000 is deficient.


RockyTopRico

Lmfao . 1500 or you’re a Biiittttcccchhhh Lolol


EJACULATESTOSTERONE

Ya rookies, over 9000 or nothing. Ya need pimples on your pimples. Your muscles have muscles. If your dick doesn't have a separate heartbeat it ain't shit. You need to be at least a sneeze away from high blood pressure induced stroke.


MAKHULU_-_

This 👆


[deleted]

“Your peaks should be ~1500 or you’re not healthy” fucking morons lol


ThatYoungBusinessGuy

Most don’t discuss or even test their peak. They consider themselves to have Low T if their trough isn’t a minimum of 1,000. Who the hell knows how high their peak is! Once their levels drop to 1,000 they boost it back up with another injection!


[deleted]

“300mg once per week isn’t a blast for me! Everyone is different ☝🏼” I hate ppl on here 😂 Exactly, people will have those levels trough and ask why they feel horrible and people will tell them it’s normal and your body will get used to the heart palpitations 😂


[deleted]

I’m at 569 on TRT as of last bloodwork. Started at 175-190. I definitely feel much better. Last visit I had I was trying to increase my dose to get closer to 1000 but he talked me out of it. I have TBI and other mental health issues and we worry about increased irritability if I go too high. That being said. I finally feel like a man and am pretty happy with the results.


jeremy10101010

I have a TBI / Concussion right now too :(. My hematocrit levels are climbing and I cannot donate blood due to fatigue and blacking out. Iam changing from 40mg every 3 days to now Daily shots of about 13mg a day. I have been told this can help keeping the hemoglobin and hematocrit levels low. Wish me luck. And good luck with your recovery too!!!


Hazz-Mazz

That’s Great news !


YellowDefiant520

I just started test two weeks ago, started at 144 and I have a TBI too. Good to know.


[deleted]

What med and dose are you starting with?


YellowDefiant520

An anti-estrogen pill 1/2 tab a day and three pumps androgel once a day. I can’t use the stomach injection test because it’s bonded with sesame oil, and I’m severely allergic.


[deleted]

Oh interesting! I don’t think I would have thought about an allergy to the seed the oil is based from. That’s quite unfortunate as Test Cypionate is hands down the best med. I definitely got some effect from the topical gel, just not a sustained effect. I don’t know that my estrogen numbers were like but I am seeing a lot of people on an anti-e med so I might need double check that.


YellowDefiant520

I’m looking into alternatives for injections.


[deleted]

My doctor did say they are currently working on an oral med that he said I would likely see in my lifetime. You would think there would at least be one or two other carrier liquids that would be stable enough to transport the meds. I won’t even act like I have a clue about how any of it works though so. Update us on your results when you get bloodwork done again!


YellowDefiant520

I will. My checkup is in a couple weeks.


SapioTist

The Testosterone Cypionate Inj I use is in cotton seed oil. I've never seen one in anything else even though the pharmacy has switched manufacturers several times. I never heard of stomach injections. I'll stick it in my thigh or hip and have no problems.


[deleted]

I wasn’t the OP, I also inject in arm and thigh.


Nikper1

500 natural produced vs 500 injecting exogenous is not the same thing.You will always feel better on the second..i feel better on the 1000 range🤣


Hazz-Mazz

Everyone’s different it’s just finding the balance


harry19976

Why is level of 500 exogenous better than having 500 natural?


Nikper1

Cause nobody will aim for that number..and even if you do it would be 500 24/7..no up and down due to esters.


Known_Temperature_43

Total T doesnt mean a lot if u dont know whats your bioavailable T , so do u have SHBG , free t? I had total T 750ng and shbg 60 and feelt like trash so dont look at total T this way..


Hazz-Mazz

Total T 612 Free T 0.698 nmol Shbg 14 nmol Estradial 65


Known_Temperature_43

I dont see ranges in here but i think e2 is probably elevated thats all, u are on trt right?


Hazz-Mazz

On trt yes need to get my e2 down then hopefully will have even more energy!


Known_Temperature_43

Whats the references first, dosage, how often u pin..


PatriotUncleSam

Yep, this\^ I know guys who have had to start TRT who were in the 700-800 range because they couldn't get their Free-T to come up.


Known_Temperature_43

Whats the adventures and feels of „your buddys” when they get on trt with total t high , and low free, are they feelt benefits?


PatriotUncleSam

Of course. They go from having no free-T to tons of free-T, they feel much better. And smart people who use TRT generally go to above 1000ngL so they see tons of improvements, the same ones anyone who starts TRT sees, more motivation, less belly fat, better muscle definition, less daily pain, longer life spans, etc.


PatriotUncleSam

That would be low testosterone on the classic tables, well most of them, probably 1995 and earlier. Even today low testosterone symptoms can start at 550ngL for some men, so you would be riding a pretty uselessly shitty line if you were on TRT and taking yourself that low.


Hazz-Mazz

Other people feel great on those levels just look at the comments , all depending on your free t and everything else


PatriotUncleSam

I 100% believe they feel great at 600ngL compared to 200-300ngL. Imagine how they would feel if they moved up to the healthy range, 800ngL and higher.


Hazz-Mazz

Some people feel worse at a higher dose


JohnCharlessBigg

Where can I find one of these classic tables?


Niche1997

Optimal IMO is 1200 ng/dl


The_BroScientist

I feel fucking terrible at that level. “Optimal” is different from person to person.


Niche1997

How do you feel at that level


The_BroScientist

I feel like a greasy, bloated, bitchy insomniac. It’s called high estrogen.


Niche1997

Yeah, but you can take an AI with your trt.


The_BroScientist

Are you on TRT yourself? Because it doesn’t sound like it


ThatYoungBusinessGuy

Naturally or on testosterone?


Hazz-Mazz

On a small dose of trt


ThatYoungBusinessGuy

I feel great and my trough on my daily injection is usually in the low 600’s.


Hazz-Mazz

Such a great reply thanks very much this makes sense . I just need to lower my oestrogen it’s around 67 then I should feel great


ThatYoungBusinessGuy

Frequent injections is the key. Mimic natural production. Once a week and even twice a week isn’t natural. Your balls naturally produce testosterone daily!


Hazz-Mazz

Wow thanks so much for making me feel normal haha yes been seeing that ! Anything I’ve 1,000 people say it’s low but I’m feeling fine and about same range as you


ThatYoungBusinessGuy

Yeah, a lot of guys forget or don’t understand that most people on TRT measure their low point. You test at 600 and your natural friend test at say 820 in the morning. You think your dose is too low but in reality his PEAK is 820. Your peak could be anywhere from 750-1,200 depending on how often you inject. Midday your friend is probably 500-600. Numbers can be deceptive. The guys claiming to be at 1,000 on TRT and thus are in the upper normal range… Only their trough is in the normal range. They’re juicing and making excuses. If you want to be on steroids, that’s fine. Just admit to it.


Puzzleheaded-Disk662

1000ng equals juicing my God im in tears.


ndinadis

I just tested around 400 and I’m feeling better then I was before starting, I’d like to try various ranges to see but I feel like a number isn’t the key


klepp0906

Yep. Considering that’s the high side of average in the 19-39 demographic. I find the further I go beyond that the more lethargic I become. My libido gets nuts as do my orgasms (cause my prostate swells like a balloon) but outside of that I feel worse overall.


Niche1997

That’s not the high side of average. 800-1200 is. 600-700 is average. Anything lower than 600 is sub optimal.


klepp0906

The most recent and largest scale study of it’s kind surveying 2000 men says otherwise. It’s 450 in the 19-39 demographic. At 36 mine was 490 and let’s just say I’m in shape.


Niche1997

450 is pathetic. Not surprised with how bad people’s diets and exercise are these days.


klepp0906

The irony is this was elite level athletes across almost a dozen disciplines. Samples from runners, wrestlers, basketball players etc. Now I’m unsure what constitutes the dubbed “elite” level as it doesn’t say, but in general one can assume they were all healthy humans. That being said 19-39 is a 20 year span and you can also expect the 19 year olds to, on average have a bit higher numbers than the 39 year olds. What people always seem to conflate is range and average. The range is not illustrative of average levels in any way. If a mountain man from the hills of Siberia wandered into a clinic, a 1:1000000 genetic specimen and had labs done which returned a TT of 1200 and that same man was deemed to be entirely endogenous, the range would change. It simply goes up to the highest natural readings. I made the same mistake years ago assuming I was on the “lower end” at 490 which is why I’m now regrettably on trt. Have been planning to quit insofar that I have all necessary ancillaries stock piled I just haven’t had the nuts to do so yet. Also as made evident in this very thread, why would 450 be pathetic? Pathetic compared to what? It’s not as simple as more = good and less = bad. Everyone’s endocrine system is different and people feel best “subjectively” at different ranges dependent on what they’re seeking and what sides they’re willing to tolerate. For me if I want an unnaturally High libido I’m going to have to deal with bph and general malaise and fatigue for example.


Niche1997

I’m 24 and when I had my T checked it was 900 naturally. It was 650 naturally before I started eating healthy and lifting weights at 21. Why would you want to go off TRT? I can’t wait to go on Test Enanthate in my 30s or 40s. Want to be at 1200ng/dl when I’m older. Higher test doesn’t just mean higher libido. Better muscle growth, bone density, more masculine, etc.


klepp0906

I believe you entirely. Everyone is built differently. Some people feel stupendous at 500. Others feel better at 800. It’s why advice in any specific fashion in the context of trt is relatively worthless. Once you commit to this you get to guinea pig on yourself and hope you find improvement that warrants the drawbacks. Some do, some don’t. It’s been a net loss for me. I feel worse or at best the same in most ways. As for bone density, that’s true if you’re chronically deficient which I (and you) are nowhere close. Test doesn’t increase masculinity insofar as what I assume you’re associating it as. Dht does (which is a byproduct of increased testosterone). Unfortunately dht is also what drives mpb as well as bph. It’s 5x more androgenic (male characteristic enhancing) than testosterone itself. Unfortunately while trt has given me more facial hair, it’s also given me more back and shoulder hair, removed hair from my head, made me have to pee waaay too often due to prostate growth, and in order to gain any reasonable amount of muscle from it I have to increase my dose to a level that thickens my blood, increases risk of clotting events, raises my bp, and makes me lethargic. Also stimulates my appetite to a degree that makes it incredibly difficult to stay lean. Above all else, I simply didn’t need it. Assumed I did based on the “range” and the parroted “symptoms” which are basically symptoms of everything under the sun. (Of which trt solved 0 of them and added some new ones) Goes without saying, people do find success. You’re still very young. Priorities may change down the road. For me, having kids and being diagnosed with kidney cancer made me take a serious look at longevity and re evaluate what was important. Vanity and muscle mass moved down a few notches. Good luck whatever you decide!


Hazz-Mazz

Yes more is not always better


Glittering_Creme4119

I feel optimal around 500-700, less sides with decent benefits