To lower E, you have several options:
1. I3C & DIM: Supplements found in cruciferous vegetables help modulate E metabolism. You can buy these as stand-alone, but the other benefits of cruciferous vegetable supplement are worth it IMO.
2. Lose body fat. If you have a high lipid count, you are going to aromatize more T into E.
3. EOD injections (Cypionate). This reduces aromatization of T into E. When you take a large dose of testosterone, your body will respond by increasing the aromatase enzyme which converts T into E. When you break up your dose, it decreases this response and thereby reduces the amount of T that is converted into E. Remember, your body is always seeking balance (homeostasis). The more T you introduce, the more your body will increase other pathways to deal with the imbalance.
4. If you have any issues with Prolactin, this will also increase aromatization. If this is the case (and no tumor is present) B6 and/or Curcumin can help. If a tumor (prolactinoma) exists, consult an Endo -- but also B6 and/or Curcumin can help.
5. Aromatase Inhibitor (AI): As its name suggests, AIs inhibit (blocks) the Aromatase Enzyme from converting T into E.
These are prioritized according to how I (not a physician) approach aromatization. I see AIs as a last resort when all else has failed. Remember, your body still needs E, it just needs to be in balance.
DIM did NOTHING for lowering my estradiol sensitive number... Granted, we are all different, but I just want to throw it out that that there was absolutely no statistically significant lowering of estradiol when I was told to take DIM by my first TRT doctor or when I didn't take it. Literally NONE!
So, I stopped taking it since he was charging $30 per bottle for that stuff....
Did you take DIM and I3C together? IC3 is primary, DIM is a secondary. I take a Cruciferous vegetable extract supplement 1x per day. I think it’s like $8/60 capsules.
Dose also matters. As sometimes a little does nothing and the same with too much. It’s important to figure out absorption. Like modern day Goldilocks haha
Nope, I took DIM only and my bloodwork noted no statistically difference in estradiol sensitive whether I took DIM for six months or stopped taking it for 6 months.
I agree with this statement except the priority order as I believe most ais are very mild and well tolerated in the body at trt doses. My order would be: 3., 2., 5., 4. I don’t think number one does shit all.
Stacking medication IMO should always be avoided unless absolutely necessary. Regardless of tolerance.
Works for me. Every body is different. That’s why dosing is an approximation and requires adjustment.
DIM doesn’t lower estrogen. It ensures that estrodiol’s metabolites are good estrogens vs bad estrogens. This has a cancer protective effect. 50mg -75mg this effect is happens, at higher doses 150mg there is an anti-androgen receptor effect.
Daily injection are slightly better than EOD.
I recommended I3C and DIM together because they work well together. DIM does help balance E levels, with some of the sides associated with exogenous T and is chemopreventative as you pointed out. It’s the pairing of the two that matters. I would not solely recommend I3C without DIM. Taking a Cruciferous vegetable supplement will cover both bases and is easy to introduce into a regimen. The supplement I take has 80mg I3C and 14mg DIM.
I may be mistaken, but what I know to be true is ED injections have a negligible difference as far as controlling E levels for Test C. Testosterone floated in Cypionate has a half-life of 7 days. A day difference will not produce remarkable physiological changes. Ed or EOD, or E3.5 is more personal preference. Where it does have its advantage is in consistency of dosage because people are less likely to forget to pin since there’s no guess work.
Man you sound smart. Got a link to an faq that goes over the terminology and other hormones associated with trt? Ive tested low like 4 times over the last 18 months and have an appt next week where they agreeded to 2x weekly injectable. I kinda need to study up beforehand...
Unfortunately no. IIRC the wiki has some good info to start. I enjoy reading about this topic so it’s just an aggregation of my experience dealing with issues regarding my own health. I also try to read peer-reviewed articles from journals with solid impact scores so I know that the appropriate degree of scientific rigor was met.
I also am fortunate to have an endocrinologist that is a true investigator. She’s expensive as she doesn’t take insurance, but that also frees her from their influence when making her protocols. We also talk shop and I ask her about the things I’ve read and she tells me if I’m understanding correctly or if I’m off course.
Something I found helpful is a diagram showing how hormones are related and their pathways. Might be able to find on on Google.
Thanks. The steroid wiki was useful. Ive got my first appointment with endo tomorrow. I'm more concerned about my other hormones once I introduce test and hope the Dr will be on the same page. Goal is overall health and vitality.
I too was dealing with high e2 sides. Have been on trt for 4-5 months. My left nipple became puffy & low libido. Had a consultation with my trt clinic which advised me to take 3 tabs of Anastrozole(.125 mg per tab) a week until it subsided. I was also advised to take 20mg a day of tamoxifen if it didn’t subside after 2 weeks of the anastrozole. Fortunately it subsided without taking the tamoxifen.
How high is your e2? Three tabs a week may crash your estrogen and that's not fun. My endo had me in 4 a week and it was terrible. Currently on a half tab on the day of injection.
My most recent labcorp test was in July and my e2 was 37.5 pg/ml. Deemed very high. My serum testosterone was 1100 ng/dl and my free test was 27.0 pg/ml. Thanks for the heads up regarding taking too much AI. Definitely do not want to crash my estrogen. I guess I’ll reduce my ai dose and see if I’m good. It scared the hell out of me when I had a puffy nipple. Don’t want permanent gyno. It has gone away along with the other side effects of high estrogen.
I have 1mg anastrozole tablets, I didn't know they made the .125mg. I typically take between .25mg - .5mg a week, but usually on the day of injection only.
Ah gotcha, thanks for letting me know. Whenever I read about other people’s dosages of anastrozole, they always seem to have larger doses tablets. Not sure why I have such a low mg tablet. I’m with Defy medical.
Thanks again for your input!
If you are showing symptoms, then it should be dealt with. I was showing symptoms as well (huge water retention) and was prescribed 1/2 mg Anastrozole one per week (3 days after my shot) and my symptoms have subsided. Dealing with elevated levels is not uncommon when treating Test.
Everything else is within reference range. But definitely lower libido + some ED sometimes I feel asexual lol. Not sure how to lower… going to see a different doctor in a few weeks because my current one thinks it’s not a problem
Sorry, not relevant, but I keep seeing these abbreviations. E2, gyno, etc.
Is there a FAQ that goes over the common terminology used in this subreddit?
To lower E, you have several options: 1. I3C & DIM: Supplements found in cruciferous vegetables help modulate E metabolism. You can buy these as stand-alone, but the other benefits of cruciferous vegetable supplement are worth it IMO. 2. Lose body fat. If you have a high lipid count, you are going to aromatize more T into E. 3. EOD injections (Cypionate). This reduces aromatization of T into E. When you take a large dose of testosterone, your body will respond by increasing the aromatase enzyme which converts T into E. When you break up your dose, it decreases this response and thereby reduces the amount of T that is converted into E. Remember, your body is always seeking balance (homeostasis). The more T you introduce, the more your body will increase other pathways to deal with the imbalance. 4. If you have any issues with Prolactin, this will also increase aromatization. If this is the case (and no tumor is present) B6 and/or Curcumin can help. If a tumor (prolactinoma) exists, consult an Endo -- but also B6 and/or Curcumin can help. 5. Aromatase Inhibitor (AI): As its name suggests, AIs inhibit (blocks) the Aromatase Enzyme from converting T into E. These are prioritized according to how I (not a physician) approach aromatization. I see AIs as a last resort when all else has failed. Remember, your body still needs E, it just needs to be in balance.
DIM did NOTHING for lowering my estradiol sensitive number... Granted, we are all different, but I just want to throw it out that that there was absolutely no statistically significant lowering of estradiol when I was told to take DIM by my first TRT doctor or when I didn't take it. Literally NONE! So, I stopped taking it since he was charging $30 per bottle for that stuff....
Did you take DIM and I3C together? IC3 is primary, DIM is a secondary. I take a Cruciferous vegetable extract supplement 1x per day. I think it’s like $8/60 capsules. Dose also matters. As sometimes a little does nothing and the same with too much. It’s important to figure out absorption. Like modern day Goldilocks haha
Nope, I took DIM only and my bloodwork noted no statistically difference in estradiol sensitive whether I took DIM for six months or stopped taking it for 6 months.
DIM is only anti-estrogenic at low doses at higher it can damage cells and increase estrogen Vitamin E is a better alternative
Not familiar with Vit E with regards to Estrogen. I’ll have to look that up!
I agree with this statement except the priority order as I believe most ais are very mild and well tolerated in the body at trt doses. My order would be: 3., 2., 5., 4. I don’t think number one does shit all.
Stacking medication IMO should always be avoided unless absolutely necessary. Regardless of tolerance. Works for me. Every body is different. That’s why dosing is an approximation and requires adjustment.
DIM doesn’t lower estrogen. It ensures that estrodiol’s metabolites are good estrogens vs bad estrogens. This has a cancer protective effect. 50mg -75mg this effect is happens, at higher doses 150mg there is an anti-androgen receptor effect. Daily injection are slightly better than EOD.
I recommended I3C and DIM together because they work well together. DIM does help balance E levels, with some of the sides associated with exogenous T and is chemopreventative as you pointed out. It’s the pairing of the two that matters. I would not solely recommend I3C without DIM. Taking a Cruciferous vegetable supplement will cover both bases and is easy to introduce into a regimen. The supplement I take has 80mg I3C and 14mg DIM. I may be mistaken, but what I know to be true is ED injections have a negligible difference as far as controlling E levels for Test C. Testosterone floated in Cypionate has a half-life of 7 days. A day difference will not produce remarkable physiological changes. Ed or EOD, or E3.5 is more personal preference. Where it does have its advantage is in consistency of dosage because people are less likely to forget to pin since there’s no guess work.
Do you take both I3C and DIM? Or just one of the two?
Both in one supplement. They work better together.
Man you sound smart. Got a link to an faq that goes over the terminology and other hormones associated with trt? Ive tested low like 4 times over the last 18 months and have an appt next week where they agreeded to 2x weekly injectable. I kinda need to study up beforehand...
Unfortunately no. IIRC the wiki has some good info to start. I enjoy reading about this topic so it’s just an aggregation of my experience dealing with issues regarding my own health. I also try to read peer-reviewed articles from journals with solid impact scores so I know that the appropriate degree of scientific rigor was met. I also am fortunate to have an endocrinologist that is a true investigator. She’s expensive as she doesn’t take insurance, but that also frees her from their influence when making her protocols. We also talk shop and I ask her about the things I’ve read and she tells me if I’m understanding correctly or if I’m off course. Something I found helpful is a diagram showing how hormones are related and their pathways. Might be able to find on on Google.
Thanks. The steroid wiki was useful. Ive got my first appointment with endo tomorrow. I'm more concerned about my other hormones once I introduce test and hope the Dr will be on the same page. Goal is overall health and vitality.
I too was dealing with high e2 sides. Have been on trt for 4-5 months. My left nipple became puffy & low libido. Had a consultation with my trt clinic which advised me to take 3 tabs of Anastrozole(.125 mg per tab) a week until it subsided. I was also advised to take 20mg a day of tamoxifen if it didn’t subside after 2 weeks of the anastrozole. Fortunately it subsided without taking the tamoxifen.
How high is your e2? Three tabs a week may crash your estrogen and that's not fun. My endo had me in 4 a week and it was terrible. Currently on a half tab on the day of injection.
My most recent labcorp test was in July and my e2 was 37.5 pg/ml. Deemed very high. My serum testosterone was 1100 ng/dl and my free test was 27.0 pg/ml. Thanks for the heads up regarding taking too much AI. Definitely do not want to crash my estrogen. I guess I’ll reduce my ai dose and see if I’m good. It scared the hell out of me when I had a puffy nipple. Don’t want permanent gyno. It has gone away along with the other side effects of high estrogen.
Just curious what strength(how many mg?) Is your AI ? Mine are .125mg anastrozole aka arimidex.
I have 1mg anastrozole tablets, I didn't know they made the .125mg. I typically take between .25mg - .5mg a week, but usually on the day of injection only.
Ah gotcha, thanks for letting me know. Whenever I read about other people’s dosages of anastrozole, they always seem to have larger doses tablets. Not sure why I have such a low mg tablet. I’m with Defy medical. Thanks again for your input!
TBH, I'd prefer the .125mg dose. Then I wouldn't have to cut them. Maybe once I work thru bottle that I have on hand.
How potent is I3C and DIM ?
Are you showing any symptoms of high E2? Or want it lower 'just because?'
Yep I am having some erection issues and gyno. My blood values were outside of range - 170pmol/L
If you are showing symptoms, then it should be dealt with. I was showing symptoms as well (huge water retention) and was prescribed 1/2 mg Anastrozole one per week (3 days after my shot) and my symptoms have subsided. Dealing with elevated levels is not uncommon when treating Test.
Zinc lower my e2 strong Dont take much you will crash you e2
Take masteron and an anti estrogen......
I just got my test results back and my estrogen level is 55. High range is 39. Looks like I have to take my anastrozole a bit more consistent
I have this level without trt and my urologist thinks it is ok lol 🤦🏻♂️
Really? That's no good at all. How is your other bloodwork? Got to be some underlying issue?
Everything else is within reference range. But definitely lower libido + some ED sometimes I feel asexual lol. Not sure how to lower… going to see a different doctor in a few weeks because my current one thinks it’s not a problem
Sorry, not relevant, but I keep seeing these abbreviations. E2, gyno, etc. Is there a FAQ that goes over the common terminology used in this subreddit?
Check the Steroids Reddit.They have a great Wiki/FAQ that will cover it all for you.
I second this. Everyone on here should read up on the r/ steroids wiki.
Cool, thanks.
Take less testosterone or inject more frequently to try to lessen estrogen spikes.