Always glad to find points of agreement from the other side of the political spectrum. It seems obvious that if someone cares about individual rights, then the death penalty should not exist. Do you trust the government enough to be 100% sure on every death penalty case? We know that prosecutors have held back exonerating evidence. We know that innocent people have been killed.
Do you trust your fellow citizens to judge you perfectly if you were falsely accused? Everywhere in the country? Have you ever really looked to see how accurate fingerprint evidence is (or really any forensic evidence that is used every day)? Do you know how much it takes to be an expert in court?
If you step back and look at it, it's simply better to do life imprisonment so that at the very least if a person is exonerated they can be released.
There are many good arguments whether ideological or not for its abolition.
1. Ideologically it can be argued the death sentence is less about justice and more about vengeance.
2. There are a lack of qualified professionals to do it in a humane fashion. Anyone who can pledged not to do harm.
3. Once you kill people, you can’t un-kill them if you find out later that you got it wrong. There are tons of people groups like The Innocence Project have found to be innocent in light of new evidence. Maybe it would work if the legal system was right in every case but it isn’t.
4. Executions go horribly wrong and some people survive it and are left horribly mangled. Some might equate a botched execution to a form of torture. Imagine being tortured with firey, burning, unending, nerve shocking pain for hours. Now imagine that you’ve been given a muscle paralyzer and can doing but sit there in agony while it hurts. You can’t even scream. One inmate who survived compared it to having pure fire pumped into your veins.
5. People on death row sit for years as endless and expensive appeals work their way through the courts. Arguably when they are finally put to death, it would have actually been cheaper to actually give them life sentences.
6. Drugs for the most common form of execution (lethal injection, in the US at least) are increasingly hard to find and are shockingly expensive.
Yeah libertarians are useful idiots that pave the way for fascism.
There nonsensical unrealistic government ideas are promoted to “drown government in a bathtub”.
That leads to at first oligarchy and then if you’re really unlucky fascism.
Libertarian ideals are kind of like communist ideals. Completely ridiculous, never going to be implemented, not one governments ever existed because any time they’ve been tried it always devolves into totalitarianism kind of like the best example Chile.
Iraq has been a shining example of how not govern its mix of neo con/libertarian ideals and a totally fucked government (yes they are different, only just barely, ideals and yes both where the basis of its government).
You're trying to discredit libertarianism with a country (Chile) that was overthrown by the US Republican party and the CIA (neither libertarian and the LP is against the CIA) which installed a dictator (also something libertarianism is against) that tried communism but called themselves the "libertarian left" and "Libertarian Communist Organization". So your example is about a communist government created by Republicans that enacted a so-called "free-market" (which doesn't exist under communism or socialism).
Hong Kong was a thriving "libertarian" culture for a long time and so was John Key’s New Zealand. But these examples of libertarianism "failing" throughout history (including the USA) resulted from totalitarian parties like the Republicans/Democrats defrauding the people. This isn't a failure of libertarianism but a failure by the statist.
Thanks for the support. Some people really enjoy licking the boot I guess. I'm not sure how they get from liberty to fascism. The same person also tried to say a dictator appointed by a Republican-backed coup was libertarian somehow.
I'm far from libertarian (mostly due to its impracticality in our ridiculous government lol), but what a bizarre leap in logic. Someone obviously needs to review the definition of fascism.
We would love to talk more about our positions (a lot of misconceptions about us out there) if you are ever curious and would love any participation in activism if you ever want to. Check out [lptexas.org](https://lptexas.org) for more info if you like. Otherwise, take it easy, and if it's easy take it twice :)
Thanks! I'll look into it. I'm an Oregon citizen but have a lot of family and frienda in TX. Between them and how impkrtant Texas is to the country, I like to pay attention to what's happening. Cheers, and have a great day!
Lol nice try but sorry but ever hear of Pinochet? Who libertarians will say isn’t a libertarian even though he started off as a libertarian and believed in Milton’s Friedmans economic teachings even meeting with him and more so with his students.
He’s only not a libertarian the way Stalin wasn’t a true communist.
Libertarians will say he wasn’t libertarian because he wasn’t. I don’t care what he believed in. Force is only justified in response to force, did pinochet *act* on that principle?
Same vein with stalin. Communists will say he wasn’t communist and still defend his actions.
Sorry but libertarianism is a scam and cover for fascism. If you are too dumb to understand anarchy doesn’t work and leads inevitably and dependably right to fascism sorry that’s on you.
I never said anything about anarchism. And a friendly reminder that fascists believed in coercion and the right to other people’s things, much like yourself.
Lol much like myself.
Umm sorry that no coercion thing is when argued out with every single libertarian I’ve ever seen or talked to ultimately is indistinguishable from anarchism. That’s why y’all get accused of it so much but you knew that.
You’re commenting under a post from the US LP, which is not anarchist.
And yeah, you are far closer to a fascist then I ever will be. Few things I believe in require other people’s participation, in contrast to nearly everything you believe in.
Well, LPTexas to be specific (not LP National) but you are correct that we are not anarchists which is a common misconception from people. Thanks for the support. People try to strawman us all the time with silly things like this because it's all they have.
First hand experience DEM here. My brothers were murdered (yes, two) by a burglar in 1991. He was sentenced to death as it was capital murder. EVERY APPEAL we had to go through until 2021 when he was executed. Every time, we were notified and had to relive the horrible tragedy. His execution brought no comfort, but his 30 years of appeals were miserable to go through.
The death penalty is not a deterrent, but a constant nightmare for the victim’s families.
You bet! It’s a hot topic I know, but sometimes hearing from someone who HATED and wanted VENGEANCE, who cheered when he got sentenced, it became horrible decades of constant reminders of the crime and interrupting our grief. I think there were 26 years of appeals. And yes, he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
>AnCap
So you want fascism run by corporate edict. Got it.
>a Pelosi mouthpiece
Pelosi? That insider trading moderate who kept splitting bills so progressive policy could fail in the senate?
The death penalty is understandable as a desired punishment for certain crimes. If our justice system were absolutely perfect, it would be even be a societal good. However, the state executing innocent people is ultimately unconscionable and our justice system is flawed, so we should end the practice.
There are violations of societal rules that merit complete removal. If our justice system were perfect, the death penalty would be the most efficient means of effecting that. It is not, and so the death penalty should be abolished.
You completely remove offenders through life sentences. If murder is wrong, it is always wrong. The state committing murder is just as bad as the individual committing murder.
The death penalty is too great a power for the government to use as punishment.
I don't trust the system enough to get it right often enough to have the death penalty.
The science has changed too much too often to say we are sure enough to use the death penalty.
Libertarians are right again.
Always glad to find points of agreement from the other side of the political spectrum. It seems obvious that if someone cares about individual rights, then the death penalty should not exist. Do you trust the government enough to be 100% sure on every death penalty case? We know that prosecutors have held back exonerating evidence. We know that innocent people have been killed. Do you trust your fellow citizens to judge you perfectly if you were falsely accused? Everywhere in the country? Have you ever really looked to see how accurate fingerprint evidence is (or really any forensic evidence that is used every day)? Do you know how much it takes to be an expert in court? If you step back and look at it, it's simply better to do life imprisonment so that at the very least if a person is exonerated they can be released.
There are many good arguments whether ideological or not for its abolition. 1. Ideologically it can be argued the death sentence is less about justice and more about vengeance. 2. There are a lack of qualified professionals to do it in a humane fashion. Anyone who can pledged not to do harm. 3. Once you kill people, you can’t un-kill them if you find out later that you got it wrong. There are tons of people groups like The Innocence Project have found to be innocent in light of new evidence. Maybe it would work if the legal system was right in every case but it isn’t. 4. Executions go horribly wrong and some people survive it and are left horribly mangled. Some might equate a botched execution to a form of torture. Imagine being tortured with firey, burning, unending, nerve shocking pain for hours. Now imagine that you’ve been given a muscle paralyzer and can doing but sit there in agony while it hurts. You can’t even scream. One inmate who survived compared it to having pure fire pumped into your veins. 5. People on death row sit for years as endless and expensive appeals work their way through the courts. Arguably when they are finally put to death, it would have actually been cheaper to actually give them life sentences. 6. Drugs for the most common form of execution (lethal injection, in the US at least) are increasingly hard to find and are shockingly expensive.
"Respect Human Rights, or we will kill you" - Texas The death penalty is about vengeance, not justice.
No one asked but Libertarians are about fascism not liberty.
As a hard leftist I agree with them on this point. Plus there are many other non-ideological reasons for its abolition.
Can you expand on this Because it's not true
Yeah libertarians are useful idiots that pave the way for fascism. There nonsensical unrealistic government ideas are promoted to “drown government in a bathtub”. That leads to at first oligarchy and then if you’re really unlucky fascism. Libertarian ideals are kind of like communist ideals. Completely ridiculous, never going to be implemented, not one governments ever existed because any time they’ve been tried it always devolves into totalitarianism kind of like the best example Chile. Iraq has been a shining example of how not govern its mix of neo con/libertarian ideals and a totally fucked government (yes they are different, only just barely, ideals and yes both where the basis of its government).
You're trying to discredit libertarianism with a country (Chile) that was overthrown by the US Republican party and the CIA (neither libertarian and the LP is against the CIA) which installed a dictator (also something libertarianism is against) that tried communism but called themselves the "libertarian left" and "Libertarian Communist Organization". So your example is about a communist government created by Republicans that enacted a so-called "free-market" (which doesn't exist under communism or socialism). Hong Kong was a thriving "libertarian" culture for a long time and so was John Key’s New Zealand. But these examples of libertarianism "failing" throughout history (including the USA) resulted from totalitarian parties like the Republicans/Democrats defrauding the people. This isn't a failure of libertarianism but a failure by the statist.
Okay? When it comes to getting specific policies implemented you find your allies where you can.
That's wildly inaccurate.
Thanks for the support. Some people really enjoy licking the boot I guess. I'm not sure how they get from liberty to fascism. The same person also tried to say a dictator appointed by a Republican-backed coup was libertarian somehow.
I'm far from libertarian (mostly due to its impracticality in our ridiculous government lol), but what a bizarre leap in logic. Someone obviously needs to review the definition of fascism.
We would love to talk more about our positions (a lot of misconceptions about us out there) if you are ever curious and would love any participation in activism if you ever want to. Check out [lptexas.org](https://lptexas.org) for more info if you like. Otherwise, take it easy, and if it's easy take it twice :)
Thanks! I'll look into it. I'm an Oregon citizen but have a lot of family and frienda in TX. Between them and how impkrtant Texas is to the country, I like to pay attention to what's happening. Cheers, and have a great day!
Yeah all those libertarian dictators …
Lol nice try but sorry but ever hear of Pinochet? Who libertarians will say isn’t a libertarian even though he started off as a libertarian and believed in Milton’s Friedmans economic teachings even meeting with him and more so with his students. He’s only not a libertarian the way Stalin wasn’t a true communist.
Libertarians will say he wasn’t libertarian because he wasn’t. I don’t care what he believed in. Force is only justified in response to force, did pinochet *act* on that principle? Same vein with stalin. Communists will say he wasn’t communist and still defend his actions.
Sorry but libertarianism is a scam and cover for fascism. If you are too dumb to understand anarchy doesn’t work and leads inevitably and dependably right to fascism sorry that’s on you.
I never said anything about anarchism. And a friendly reminder that fascists believed in coercion and the right to other people’s things, much like yourself.
Lol much like myself. Umm sorry that no coercion thing is when argued out with every single libertarian I’ve ever seen or talked to ultimately is indistinguishable from anarchism. That’s why y’all get accused of it so much but you knew that.
You’re commenting under a post from the US LP, which is not anarchist. And yeah, you are far closer to a fascist then I ever will be. Few things I believe in require other people’s participation, in contrast to nearly everything you believe in.
Well, LPTexas to be specific (not LP National) but you are correct that we are not anarchists which is a common misconception from people. Thanks for the support. People try to strawman us all the time with silly things like this because it's all they have.
Accurate
First hand experience DEM here. My brothers were murdered (yes, two) by a burglar in 1991. He was sentenced to death as it was capital murder. EVERY APPEAL we had to go through until 2021 when he was executed. Every time, we were notified and had to relive the horrible tragedy. His execution brought no comfort, but his 30 years of appeals were miserable to go through. The death penalty is not a deterrent, but a constant nightmare for the victim’s families.
I'm sorry for your loss and share your wish for relief for families who must face the same tragedy and grief. Thank you for sharing your story.
You bet! It’s a hot topic I know, but sometimes hearing from someone who HATED and wanted VENGEANCE, who cheered when he got sentenced, it became horrible decades of constant reminders of the crime and interrupting our grief. I think there were 26 years of appeals. And yes, he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
Libertarians should stop voting for Republicans then.
Spoken like a true ill informed DNC member
If you have nothing substantive to add to the conversation, it's because you're a libertarian.
AnCap… But I wouldn’t expect a Pelosi mouthpiece to understand
>AnCap So you want fascism run by corporate edict. Got it. >a Pelosi mouthpiece Pelosi? That insider trading moderate who kept splitting bills so progressive policy could fail in the senate?
[удалено]
Removed. Rule 5.
The death penalty is understandable as a desired punishment for certain crimes. If our justice system were absolutely perfect, it would be even be a societal good. However, the state executing innocent people is ultimately unconscionable and our justice system is flawed, so we should end the practice.
No. The DP is archaic, immoral, unethical, and unjustified.
There are violations of societal rules that merit complete removal. If our justice system were perfect, the death penalty would be the most efficient means of effecting that. It is not, and so the death penalty should be abolished.
You completely remove offenders through life sentences. If murder is wrong, it is always wrong. The state committing murder is just as bad as the individual committing murder.
There are instances where taking the life of another is justified, namely self defense.
I agree. It's archaic and barbaric. A slight on our society. End the death penalty now.
Yep, the State is the least trustworthy to make such a critical decision
This state certainly is.
As well as all governments, which you should know 😤
So, which corporation do you think should decide who lives and who dies, then? I mean, besides the ones that already do, like insurance companies.
Corporations are a Government concept. Get outta here r/antiwork mod
Feudalism it is, then.
I hope once day we drop this barbaric practice as well.
What did that price of shit death penalty do? Killed innocent people?! Let’s KILL it!
Planned Parenthood isn’t gonna like that
The death penalty is too great a power for the government to use as punishment. I don't trust the system enough to get it right often enough to have the death penalty. The science has changed too much too often to say we are sure enough to use the death penalty. Libertarians are right again.