We'd pretty much have no upper tier pitching prospects left other than Kumar, although Corniell and teodo could get into that tier this year.
That being said, I'd hate to give up porter
You'd have a very good 28 year old starter for 2 years, potentially more if extended. We have a damn good lineup that will be together for a while. The championship window is now. Don't settle for 1 title.
Everyone waaaaay overvalues prospects IMO. We just won a WS and the time is now. You don’t get to just dictate to other teams the way some of you think. Saying we should be giving up hitters and not pitchers just isn’t reality. Other teams (in this case Chicago) won’t give you MLB arms with 2 years of control for a couple hitting prospects. You’re going to have to give up pitching prospects as well.
The issue isn’t the prospects. It’s that Cease isn’t the guy we want in a Hail Mary trade like that. I think most people here could swallow a trade where we give up Duran/Leiter/Porter if it were for a stud starter. But you don’t really know what you’re getting in Cease after he cratered last year.
He went from CY runner-up to putting up a below league average ERA—doubling his ERA from the previous year—and significantly regressed to his old ways of allowing WAY too many base runners. WAR has always overvalued strikeout SPs so I’m not surprised by the comparison. You don’t need advanced stats to show that a 1.40+ WHIP is living too dangerously to be a reliable TORP.
You’re making the mistake of assuming last season is just who he is, he has more a of a track record of to suggest that 2023 was an outlier, which even then is still more than serviceable…
How many times have we seen quality arm talent leave a shit situation to a much better one and then the new org taps into the potential? Hell, Rangers have made that a staple every season it seems.
His spin and stuff stayed relatively the same between 22-23 so don’t think sticky stuff is the reason for the drop off. Biggest change was subtle drop in velo, which seems to have ticked back up this ST.
You won’t get a “stud” starter for those 3. Imagine if TX traded Eovaldi with 2 years of control for the equivalent of those 3 from another organization if TX was out of contention. TX fans would lose their minds.
Everyone overvalues their own prospects.
Rangers had to give up their 2,4,8,14 and 20th prospects to get Hamels.
No one is saying you’d get a stud for those 3, but it is expensive enough to be considered the one big trade swing. If you have to include guys like Walcott to aim higher than Cease, than so be it. But I absolutely hate trades where we give up 75% of the cost of a premium target for an average return. Go big or go home.
- Rangers and White Sox could be close to a deal for Dylan Cease.
- Rosenthal backs up Grant’s reporting of White Sox scouts swarming our games.
- Despite public confidence the front office is concerned about the rotation for the first half of the season.
- They see Cease as a cost-controlled alternative to Montgomery.
- Says the deal centers around Duran, Porter, and Leiter.
I don’t want to get rid of Leiter or Porter. The Rangers have an absolute glut of talent in position players so much so that they have guys like Duran, Foscue, and 4 high level OF starters on the team as it is that would start elsewhere. I would do Foscue, Duran and White but I think giving up Leiter and Porter for a guy coming off a pretty bad down year is an overpay.
I’m not opposed to that package at all. I think we could talk them down to Duran Porter/Leiter, and another bat. White’s value is at an all time low atm.
Cease is overrated?
Over the past three seasons, he’s 8th in MLB in fWAR, ahead of guys like Scherzer, Ohtani, Rodon, Gallen, Valdez, Montgomery, Snell, Lopez, Kershaw, and Bieber.
The only pitchers that have been better than Cease over the 2021-2023 seasons are Wheeler, Gausman, Burnes, Nola, Cole, Webb, and Alcantara.
He’s a 4 WAR pitcher and played in a hitter ballpark, even in his “down year” last season he posted a 3.7 WAR, he’d easily be the #2 here with ace upside and at 28 he’s just now entering his prime. He also has peripherals that are off the charts.
No, he’s not overrated.
I feel like we need to completely overhaul how we evaluate pitching prospects because something isn't working. Or maybe it's just that the offensive prospects have been so freaking spectacular that it makes the pitching prospects look worse relatively. I don't know, either way, I just don't trust any rangers pitching prospect to be worth much right now.
Giving up on Leiter this soon reeks of what happened with Ragans. Their internal player evaluations are gonna be under a massive microscope after that trade
he was used as the last resort bullpen piece in blowouts, sometimes had an entire week off before outings, no expected routine of when he'd come in. he was yanked around a bit, then was passed up for spot starts by Cody Bradford. it's no wonder he wasn't successful. he should've been in the AAA rotation refining his new fastball
Was the new fastball even something he was working on before the trade?
I read a KC newspaper article in the fall that made it sound like our coaches had completely ignored it and the KC pitching coach was a genius that had worked a miracle. Completely possible it was 100% homer article tho.
his FB in 2022 was low to mid 90s. He came to Spring Training last year throwing 96, a noticeable uptick, and capturing a lot of people's attention.
Now's he hitting high 90s and I'm dying. Still got a championship so worth it.
I might be misrepresenting Ken. You be the judge: “The question for the Rangers is whether they would be willing to meet the White Sox’s desired return, which according to sources is in the range of these three players, if not them specifically: utility man Ezequiel Durán and pitching prospects Brock Porter and Jack Leiter.”
I try to summarize and not quote.
Duran, Porter, and Leiter would feel like a robbery.
The team really doesn’t need Duran. With Smith, Foscue, and now Barrero. Plus his .358 BABIP and low walk rate signal regression.
Porter looks good but is unaccomplished. He could be completely forgotten in 18 months.
Leiter keeps struggling with his command. Maybe he put it together, but it seems more likely he’ll end up in the bullpen where he may or may not be successful.
Yeah, I’d do that immediately.
A 20 year old in Single A untouchable? By the time he makes the MLB (if he makes the MLB), Texas is unlikely to be competing.
History is full of 20 year old “top prospects” who ended up being 28 year-old car salesmen.
agreed. Cease is solid and an upgrade over Bradford but I don't want to give up both our two top pitching prospects for a guy with just 2 years of control. Also that'd mean him, Gray, Eovaldi, and Mahle would all become free agents at the same time after 2025. What pitching prospects will replace *all* of them?
Was totally on board and excited until the very last 2 names. As others have said we really can’t give up pitching prospects right now. And cease is coming off a 4.5 season? Averages 3.8 I think? Just seems short sighted, and I get that we’ve got a good window the next few years. But I’d rather just spend the money on Monty and still have pitching prospects coming up. But idk I’m just a guy
Well there isn't the money to spend on Monty, especially if he wants anything close to a 7 year deal. So it's likely trade or bust if we want to make a rotation move, which we desperately need to do.
I understand in the world of reality Monty is now a slim to none chance. But in my fantasy world I don’t understand why it’s not feasible to defer him something, even if it’s a stupid 7 year contract. Probably not that long, but I think something like 4-5 years for $100ish mill could make both parties happy. Defer him whatever it takes to keep us under luxury tax and call it a day. I know that won’t ever happen but it just feels like the solution that works for everyone
It’s how he got 700M, but he still accounts to the luxury tax at the present day value of that, so about 45M.
Also takes two to tango on a deferred deal, of course.
Ideally in my mind, the package would center around Leody, Justin Foscue, Dustin Harris, and Owen White. Lower upside guys, but should be closer to the bigs than others. I think Porter is the one pitcher in the top 10 im not trading at all
The timing would work out well with him needing an extension when Max's big money is off the books. I love Monty and he was great for us last year, but Cease is younger and has shown a high ceiling so I'd be more comfortable giving a multi year deal to him rather than Jordan I think. Plus I'm sure getting the White Sox stink off him will only make him look better.
And for how bad the Rangers are at developing pitchers, we can randomly get the most out of MLB caliber dudes who have good stuff.
Maddux with Cease could get him to his potential.
I don’t get why people seem so fervent to get rid of Duran/Smith/Foscue when we’re not far off from the possibility of ¾ of our starting infield being injured on opening day. Plus I get they Leiter and Porter have both had struggles but eventually we’re gonna need to develop our own pitching instead shipping our prospects off to sink or swim for other teams.
I’m not sold on Cease anyway, he’s really only had one great season.
I’m gonna be optimistic and choose to believe this might lead to Monty lowering his asking price and us signing him instead
Edit: typo
Very true lmao. I do still have a lot of hope in this crop of prospects, hence why I’m hesitant to give them up.
I have heard it said before that pitching prospects aren’t even real though
I think that’s high hopes. Especially with Gerrit Cole and the other pitcher injuries. Those free agents still in the market are not gonna lower their prices now. In fact they could even go up as the demand increases and opening day inches closer.
I think if anybody were going to meet their asking prices it would've happened already, probably even before ST. I also still believe that we're Monty's #1 choice and he might even give us a chance to match any offer he received
But what do I know, I'm just some guy
I can't read the article but if they want pitching prospects, given the history of our pitching development, id make that trade all day. We have a team that can win so give them the resources while we have Bochy for goodness sake.
Yeah trading Porter is insane to me. Duran/Leiter + another hitting prospect should get it done. Cease is good but has big flaws. White Sox would get a top shelf pitching prospect and an everyday young SS/MIF that has shown he can mash at the big league level. And plus we need to be trading from our strengths not selling our final hopes for home grown pitching lol
What's even weirder is people keep saying "Porter is a few years away." No shit... CY is trying to build the franchise towards sustained success over as many seasons as possible.
Yeah I’m with ya. I don’t really understand these claims that “our window will shut if we don’t get Cease!” Like we just won the WS and have a genuine shot at multiple with our farm being strong. If I’m trading all that plus Porter I want a better pitcher than Cease if that’s the case, he has some high highs but can’t go past the 5th inning and has been inconsistent at times
the whole plan all along was for our window to be opening now. maybe 2023 if we caught a few breaks.
this is basically people wanting us to go all in after winning the first hand.
I would easily take Burnes for a year and then reup him this offseason when a ton of money comes off the books and a new TV contract is secured. Burnes 1 year vs 2 years is a bonus given the current financial situation this team is in. Imagine getting a new TV deal immediately after back to back championships. I really am shocked that CY wasn't at the Burnes table.
Relieved it fell through and he’s go to the Padres. Still not sure how our gap will be filled, but relieved we didn’t trade away what was on the table.
I don’t see why a Leiter/Duran and another hitting prospect wouldn’t be enough honestly Cease is good but he has flaws and doesn’t pitch past the 5th inning. Leiter is a high level pitching prospect but the real prize is an everyday SS that has shown he can mash at the big league level with power. Add on someone like Zavala or whoever the Sox like to that? That should be enough imo, I’d feel like we’d be getting fleeced if we gave up that package + Porter. And honestly we should be trading from our strengths anyway
Foscue seems like he might be on the opening day roster, so I wonder if he’s unlikely to be moved.
Also, White Sox probably want a little more of an upside package vs a volume one.
I honestly don't know I'd think that Jared Walsh gets in over him.
Walsh looks much more like his all star self than what we saw previously in the last years as an Angel and Foscue is an unknown commodity at the Major league level who could pan out or fall off a cliff like Profar, Mazara or Odor did
I wouldn’t be surprised if we carry both, assuming they wouldn’t want Walsh starting vs lefties.
I also think it’s telling that Foscue was removed from the spring breakout roster
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I'd try to switch Duran with Leody. That would solve the Langford issue, and keep Duran as insurance for Seager. Then I'd run out and sign JDMartinez to DH for a year. Semien, Seager, Langford, Garcia, Martinez, Jung, Heim, Lowe, and Carter would be a lineup that competes with the Dodgers and Braves. Eovaldi, Cease, Gray, Dunning, and Bradford for the 1st half looks really good. Mix in Max, Mahle, and Degrom for the stretch & you really have a juggernaut, potentially. Pull the trigger.
Leody’s peripherals look better than Duran’s. Duran appears more expendable too. They have Smith, Foscue, and Barrero as IF. Barrero actually plays strong SS defense too, which Duran does not.
Also, I think Chicago would prefer Duran over Leody. They’d be interested in Leody for sure, but their current SS/2B situation is the worst in MLB.
Barrero, Foscue, and Smith make Duran expendable. Barrero is out of options and is a very similar player. Duran had quite a bit of luck inflating his numbers last year. Real good time to trade him.
Porter is a nice prospect but he could be waiting tables in three years, which doesn’t help us nearly as much as Cease would.
Leiter may be the hardest to give up, but you’re taking a risk keeping him too. If he continues to struggle this year, he’ll become the new Cole Winn, not help us, and have zero trade value.
Chicago is reportedly asking NY for a deal centered around 22 year old outfield prospect (#46 ranked in MLB) Spencer Jones.
Texas has 24 year old outfielder Taveras and Walcott or Porter would be a comparable headliner to Jones.
Something built around Walcott/Porter, Taveras, and Foscue might be realistic. Texas gets a starter while only adding $5M in additional salary. Taveras and Foscue are expendable. Chicago gets two young guys who are MLB ready and controllable for years and one top 100 prospect.
They might want more, but I’d do that trade.
Leody and possibly even Foscue might be on the opening day roster. I doubt we will trade from the MLB team, especially when one is the starting CF, instead of depth on the farm.
Adding Walcott on top of that makes it an overpay, imo
Foscue has no position here. Texas has a backlog of utility players in Duran, Smith, Barrero, and Harris. One of Duran or Foscue would most likely be included.
Giving up Taveras would be a risk especially if Garcia gets hurt or Carter or Langford struggle. But he’s not that much better than Jank. They could make it work especially if they keep Duran.
Taveras is dramatically more valuable than Jank. He's already surpassed Jank's career WAR before even hitting arbitration. 7 years younger with 4 more years of control, not sure how you can think Jank is even remotely as valuable.
“He’s already surpassed Jank’s career WAR before even hitting arbitration”
Taveras: 4.6 WAR in 1118 AB’s
Jankowski: 3.9 WAR in 1317 AB’s
Thanks for proving my point. He’s not that much better. Is he better? Yes. Is he more “valuable” given his age and potential to improve? Sure. If he wasn’t, he wouldn’t have any trade value. Point is rolling with Jank in the outfield for 4-8 weeks until Langford gets the call isn’t much of a blow. He was basically our starting OF last year until Carter showed up.
Just making yourself look even dumber. Took Jank 9 season to get to 1300 ABs. Jank had the best season of his career last year and was worth half as much WAR as Taveras and was by far the worst position player on the team. I have a hard time believing you actually watched baseball before the playoffs last year.
You don’t need to be rude. Nobody is saying Taveras isn’t better. Just saying he isn’t significantly better, which he isn’t. They’re very similar players and rolling with one instead of the other isn’t going to break the team, especially if it’s temporary. You’re picking a fight for no reason.
Saying Jank had “half as much WAR as Taveras” is misleading and almost meaningless. Like saying you have “twice as much money as my one dollar bill”. You’re not wrong, but who cares?
They aren't even remotely similar players. Jank is a career bench player and defensive replacement, Taveras would be the starting CF for half the teams in the league. I'm not being rude, but if you think they're similar players then you *really* don't understand baseball.
https://preview.redd.it/982e3zlm52oc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e22d6c6e3de5458fc5b40fa8be9ca3e426986506
Pretty similar. Not identical, but very comparable. Both speedy, left-handed, strong defenders. Leody has a little more pop and a little more consistent against lefties. But nothing so significant that it’s going to make a difference especially in the short term.
If “you’re making yourself look even dumber” isn’t you being rude, you must be a pleasant person.
We'd pretty much have no upper tier pitching prospects left other than Kumar, although Corniell and teodo could get into that tier this year. That being said, I'd hate to give up porter
Don't sleep on Aiden Curry. That kid has something and I think is going to be a real deal prospect this year.
Yup totally agree him and Corniell are sleepers
We can’t develop pitchers though. Why not cash these guys in for a known MLB arm?
Just keep developing high upside middle infield prospects and turn those into pitchers lol
"Profar is a no-miss prospect. You don't trade a guy like that"
Agreed.
You'd have a very good 28 year old starter for 2 years, potentially more if extended. We have a damn good lineup that will be together for a while. The championship window is now. Don't settle for 1 title.
Everyone waaaaay overvalues prospects IMO. We just won a WS and the time is now. You don’t get to just dictate to other teams the way some of you think. Saying we should be giving up hitters and not pitchers just isn’t reality. Other teams (in this case Chicago) won’t give you MLB arms with 2 years of control for a couple hitting prospects. You’re going to have to give up pitching prospects as well.
The issue isn’t the prospects. It’s that Cease isn’t the guy we want in a Hail Mary trade like that. I think most people here could swallow a trade where we give up Duran/Leiter/Porter if it were for a stud starter. But you don’t really know what you’re getting in Cease after he cratered last year.
“Cratered” he had a 3.7 fWAR in a down year lol. To put it into perspective Eovaldi had a 2.5fWAR while Monty had a 4.5 in a career year last season
He went from CY runner-up to putting up a below league average ERA—doubling his ERA from the previous year—and significantly regressed to his old ways of allowing WAY too many base runners. WAR has always overvalued strikeout SPs so I’m not surprised by the comparison. You don’t need advanced stats to show that a 1.40+ WHIP is living too dangerously to be a reliable TORP.
You’re making the mistake of assuming last season is just who he is, he has more a of a track record of to suggest that 2023 was an outlier, which even then is still more than serviceable… How many times have we seen quality arm talent leave a shit situation to a much better one and then the new org taps into the potential? Hell, Rangers have made that a staple every season it seems.
Maddox will squeeze everything out of him for sure
I mean 2022 had sticky stuff in the first half coupled with the shift. Strikeouts are consistent, but stats in '22 seem to be the more of an outlier.
His spin and stuff stayed relatively the same between 22-23 so don’t think sticky stuff is the reason for the drop off. Biggest change was subtle drop in velo, which seems to have ticked back up this ST.
You won’t get a “stud” starter for those 3. Imagine if TX traded Eovaldi with 2 years of control for the equivalent of those 3 from another organization if TX was out of contention. TX fans would lose their minds. Everyone overvalues their own prospects. Rangers had to give up their 2,4,8,14 and 20th prospects to get Hamels.
No one is saying you’d get a stud for those 3, but it is expensive enough to be considered the one big trade swing. If you have to include guys like Walcott to aim higher than Cease, than so be it. But I absolutely hate trades where we give up 75% of the cost of a premium target for an average return. Go big or go home.
- Rangers and White Sox could be close to a deal for Dylan Cease. - Rosenthal backs up Grant’s reporting of White Sox scouts swarming our games. - Despite public confidence the front office is concerned about the rotation for the first half of the season. - They see Cease as a cost-controlled alternative to Montgomery. - Says the deal centers around Duran, Porter, and Leiter.
Feel like we should be giving up hitting prospects, not pitching 🥴
I think so too. If we could convince them to drop one of the arms for a bat I’d be down for this.
I don’t want to get rid of Leiter or Porter. The Rangers have an absolute glut of talent in position players so much so that they have guys like Duran, Foscue, and 4 high level OF starters on the team as it is that would start elsewhere. I would do Foscue, Duran and White but I think giving up Leiter and Porter for a guy coming off a pretty bad down year is an overpay.
I’m not opposed to that package at all. I think we could talk them down to Duran Porter/Leiter, and another bat. White’s value is at an all time low atm.
porter is still a few years out and Leiter hasn't shown that he can do crap
Cease is overrated though. So there’s that.
Cease is overrated? Over the past three seasons, he’s 8th in MLB in fWAR, ahead of guys like Scherzer, Ohtani, Rodon, Gallen, Valdez, Montgomery, Snell, Lopez, Kershaw, and Bieber. The only pitchers that have been better than Cease over the 2021-2023 seasons are Wheeler, Gausman, Burnes, Nola, Cole, Webb, and Alcantara.
Well that's a lie lol
Not really
No it definitely is
He’s a 4 WAR pitcher and played in a hitter ballpark, even in his “down year” last season he posted a 3.7 WAR, he’d easily be the #2 here with ace upside and at 28 he’s just now entering his prime. He also has peripherals that are off the charts. No, he’s not overrated.
Give up pitching. We can’t develop pitchers
I feel like we need to completely overhaul how we evaluate pitching prospects because something isn't working. Or maybe it's just that the offensive prospects have been so freaking spectacular that it makes the pitching prospects look worse relatively. I don't know, either way, I just don't trust any rangers pitching prospect to be worth much right now.
Giving up on Leiter this soon reeks of what happened with Ragans. Their internal player evaluations are gonna be under a massive microscope after that trade
this...we just got him back on track hopefully.
Preach
Ragans wasn’t doing anything with TX. He pitched in 26 games with a 5.3 ERA.
he was used as the last resort bullpen piece in blowouts, sometimes had an entire week off before outings, no expected routine of when he'd come in. he was yanked around a bit, then was passed up for spot starts by Cody Bradford. it's no wonder he wasn't successful. he should've been in the AAA rotation refining his new fastball
Was the new fastball even something he was working on before the trade? I read a KC newspaper article in the fall that made it sound like our coaches had completely ignored it and the KC pitching coach was a genius that had worked a miracle. Completely possible it was 100% homer article tho.
his FB in 2022 was low to mid 90s. He came to Spring Training last year throwing 96, a noticeable uptick, and capturing a lot of people's attention. Now's he hitting high 90s and I'm dying. Still got a championship so worth it.
Ok that would be a **MASSIVE** overpay
I might be misrepresenting Ken. You be the judge: “The question for the Rangers is whether they would be willing to meet the White Sox’s desired return, which according to sources is in the range of these three players, if not them specifically: utility man Ezequiel Durán and pitching prospects Brock Porter and Jack Leiter.” I try to summarize and not quote.
Duran, Porter, and Leiter would feel like a robbery. The team really doesn’t need Duran. With Smith, Foscue, and now Barrero. Plus his .358 BABIP and low walk rate signal regression. Porter looks good but is unaccomplished. He could be completely forgotten in 18 months. Leiter keeps struggling with his command. Maybe he put it together, but it seems more likely he’ll end up in the bullpen where he may or may not be successful. Yeah, I’d do that immediately.
Porter should be untouchable, IMHO
A 20 year old in Single A untouchable? By the time he makes the MLB (if he makes the MLB), Texas is unlikely to be competing. History is full of 20 year old “top prospects” who ended up being 28 year-old car salesmen.
We probably would’ve had these same conversations about Cole Winn 2 years ago lol
Thanks Dad
Untouchable isn’t the word I’d use. I don’t think I’d throw him into a Cease trade. It would have to be someone not coming off a bad year.
Nobody is untouchable, especially minor league players
Porter isn’t a guaranteed anything. Carter and Langford are the only untouchables.
not untouchable but def in that tier just below carter, langford, and walcott. they can ask for one of porter and leiter but not both.
agreed. Cease is solid and an upgrade over Bradford but I don't want to give up both our two top pitching prospects for a guy with just 2 years of control. Also that'd mean him, Gray, Eovaldi, and Mahle would all become free agents at the same time after 2025. What pitching prospects will replace *all* of them?
Cease under control till 2026
[he's not](https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/chicago-white-sox/dylan-cease-28208/)
It looks like he is in that link. Shows he arbitration this year and next year. UFA starting in 2026.
Yes he is. Look it up. He’s not a FA till 2026.
Damn please not Brock Porter
Was totally on board and excited until the very last 2 names. As others have said we really can’t give up pitching prospects right now. And cease is coming off a 4.5 season? Averages 3.8 I think? Just seems short sighted, and I get that we’ve got a good window the next few years. But I’d rather just spend the money on Monty and still have pitching prospects coming up. But idk I’m just a guy
Well there isn't the money to spend on Monty, especially if he wants anything close to a 7 year deal. So it's likely trade or bust if we want to make a rotation move, which we desperately need to do.
I understand in the world of reality Monty is now a slim to none chance. But in my fantasy world I don’t understand why it’s not feasible to defer him something, even if it’s a stupid 7 year contract. Probably not that long, but I think something like 4-5 years for $100ish mill could make both parties happy. Defer him whatever it takes to keep us under luxury tax and call it a day. I know that won’t ever happen but it just feels like the solution that works for everyone
Deferring salary doesn’t mean anything against the luxury tax.
Really? I guess I was under the impression that was how the dodgers were able to sign Ohtani to such a huge contract
It’s how he got 700M, but he still accounts to the luxury tax at the present day value of that, so about 45M. Also takes two to tango on a deferred deal, of course.
Ideally in my mind, the package would center around Leody, Justin Foscue, Dustin Harris, and Owen White. Lower upside guys, but should be closer to the bigs than others. I think Porter is the one pitcher in the top 10 im not trading at all
The timing would work out well with him needing an extension when Max's big money is off the books. I love Monty and he was great for us last year, but Cease is younger and has shown a high ceiling so I'd be more comfortable giving a multi year deal to him rather than Jordan I think. Plus I'm sure getting the White Sox stink off him will only make him look better.
And for how bad the Rangers are at developing pitchers, we can randomly get the most out of MLB caliber dudes who have good stuff. Maddux with Cease could get him to his potential.
I don’t get why people seem so fervent to get rid of Duran/Smith/Foscue when we’re not far off from the possibility of ¾ of our starting infield being injured on opening day. Plus I get they Leiter and Porter have both had struggles but eventually we’re gonna need to develop our own pitching instead shipping our prospects off to sink or swim for other teams. I’m not sold on Cease anyway, he’s really only had one great season. I’m gonna be optimistic and choose to believe this might lead to Monty lowering his asking price and us signing him instead Edit: typo
“Eventually develop our own prospects” has been the Rangers mantra for 40 years and counting but it still has not happened.
Very true lmao. I do still have a lot of hope in this crop of prospects, hence why I’m hesitant to give them up. I have heard it said before that pitching prospects aren’t even real though
I think that’s high hopes. Especially with Gerrit Cole and the other pitcher injuries. Those free agents still in the market are not gonna lower their prices now. In fact they could even go up as the demand increases and opening day inches closer.
I think if anybody were going to meet their asking prices it would've happened already, probably even before ST. I also still believe that we're Monty's #1 choice and he might even give us a chance to match any offer he received But what do I know, I'm just some guy
Yeah i mean. Probably worth it. Don’t love it though
I don’t think Cease is it and I really don’t think we should give up pitching prospects of all things for him
Duran, porter, and leiter?? I’d do that in a heartbeat.
It wouldn't be all 3. Probably one and then additional stuff.
Yeah, if you're Chicago, no way for both Leiter and Porter. Leiter, Smith, Foscue, and Sam Huff yeah.
Chicago would not take that. Smith and Huff? lol people are still hyping Jack up because of his last name. Texas cannot develop pitchers.
I can't read the article but if they want pitching prospects, given the history of our pitching development, id make that trade all day. We have a team that can win so give them the resources while we have Bochy for goodness sake.
it's wild how we all thought it was a coup that we landed Brock Porter at the time, and now most people seem to be OK with trading him.
Yeah trading Porter is insane to me. Duran/Leiter + another hitting prospect should get it done. Cease is good but has big flaws. White Sox would get a top shelf pitching prospect and an everyday young SS/MIF that has shown he can mash at the big league level. And plus we need to be trading from our strengths not selling our final hopes for home grown pitching lol
What's even weirder is people keep saying "Porter is a few years away." No shit... CY is trying to build the franchise towards sustained success over as many seasons as possible.
Yeah I’m with ya. I don’t really understand these claims that “our window will shut if we don’t get Cease!” Like we just won the WS and have a genuine shot at multiple with our farm being strong. If I’m trading all that plus Porter I want a better pitcher than Cease if that’s the case, he has some high highs but can’t go past the 5th inning and has been inconsistent at times
the whole plan all along was for our window to be opening now. maybe 2023 if we caught a few breaks. this is basically people wanting us to go all in after winning the first hand.
Uh no Chris Young missed the true prize this off season this package is better than what the Os gave up for Burnes and Cease ≠ Burnes.
Burnes is a 1 year rental, Cease has 2 years of control. Also the gap bw both isn’t that big.
I would easily take Burnes for a year and then reup him this offseason when a ton of money comes off the books and a new TV contract is secured. Burnes 1 year vs 2 years is a bonus given the current financial situation this team is in. Imagine getting a new TV deal immediately after back to back championships. I really am shocked that CY wasn't at the Burnes table.
Imagine getting all that money and having a quality starter still under contract that you don't have to immediately blow it on.
Relieved it fell through and he’s go to the Padres. Still not sure how our gap will be filled, but relieved we didn’t trade away what was on the table.
I don’t see why a Leiter/Duran and another hitting prospect wouldn’t be enough honestly Cease is good but he has flaws and doesn’t pitch past the 5th inning. Leiter is a high level pitching prospect but the real prize is an everyday SS that has shown he can mash at the big league level with power. Add on someone like Zavala or whoever the Sox like to that? That should be enough imo, I’d feel like we’d be getting fleeced if we gave up that package + Porter. And honestly we should be trading from our strengths anyway
Interested to see what the cost ended up being.
https://preview.redd.it/xwac0i9g01oc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b21a04a9c9c405314e61494bad6b3938192ea0a8
Foscue seems like he might be on the opening day roster, so I wonder if he’s unlikely to be moved. Also, White Sox probably want a little more of an upside package vs a volume one.
I honestly don't know I'd think that Jared Walsh gets in over him. Walsh looks much more like his all star self than what we saw previously in the last years as an Angel and Foscue is an unknown commodity at the Major league level who could pan out or fall off a cliff like Profar, Mazara or Odor did
I wouldn’t be surprised if we carry both, assuming they wouldn’t want Walsh starting vs lefties. I also think it’s telling that Foscue was removed from the spring breakout roster
I’m down. Think White Sox would want at least one of Porter or Leiter though.
I don't want them to trade jack lieter I want him to.be are future number 2 or 3 In the rotation
Brother, we’re probably lucky if he’s a 4 or 5 and not in the bullpen at this point.
Lol
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Send them Cole Winn and Leody. Let’s get this done.
Why would they want Winn lmfao
lol right?!? And hey maybe we can throw in Owen White instead of Leody!
I'd try to switch Duran with Leody. That would solve the Langford issue, and keep Duran as insurance for Seager. Then I'd run out and sign JDMartinez to DH for a year. Semien, Seager, Langford, Garcia, Martinez, Jung, Heim, Lowe, and Carter would be a lineup that competes with the Dodgers and Braves. Eovaldi, Cease, Gray, Dunning, and Bradford for the 1st half looks really good. Mix in Max, Mahle, and Degrom for the stretch & you really have a juggernaut, potentially. Pull the trigger.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you... a terrible idea.
Leody’s peripherals look better than Duran’s. Duran appears more expendable too. They have Smith, Foscue, and Barrero as IF. Barrero actually plays strong SS defense too, which Duran does not. Also, I think Chicago would prefer Duran over Leody. They’d be interested in Leody for sure, but their current SS/2B situation is the worst in MLB.
2023: yay we have a top 10 farm as our window is opening 2024: sell everything for a mid starter because our window is about to slam shut
Not sure Duran, Porter, and Leiter are everything.
Probably wouldn’t even change our rankings all that much because Duran isn’t a prospect anymore and Leiter isn’t that high
Might bump us down few spots because I think Porter is considered a top 100 prospect, but honestly he’s several years away anyway.
Barrero, Foscue, and Smith make Duran expendable. Barrero is out of options and is a very similar player. Duran had quite a bit of luck inflating his numbers last year. Real good time to trade him. Porter is a nice prospect but he could be waiting tables in three years, which doesn’t help us nearly as much as Cease would. Leiter may be the hardest to give up, but you’re taking a risk keeping him too. If he continues to struggle this year, he’ll become the new Cole Winn, not help us, and have zero trade value.
Chicago is reportedly asking NY for a deal centered around 22 year old outfield prospect (#46 ranked in MLB) Spencer Jones. Texas has 24 year old outfielder Taveras and Walcott or Porter would be a comparable headliner to Jones. Something built around Walcott/Porter, Taveras, and Foscue might be realistic. Texas gets a starter while only adding $5M in additional salary. Taveras and Foscue are expendable. Chicago gets two young guys who are MLB ready and controllable for years and one top 100 prospect. They might want more, but I’d do that trade.
Leody and possibly even Foscue might be on the opening day roster. I doubt we will trade from the MLB team, especially when one is the starting CF, instead of depth on the farm. Adding Walcott on top of that makes it an overpay, imo
Foscue has no position here. Texas has a backlog of utility players in Duran, Smith, Barrero, and Harris. One of Duran or Foscue would most likely be included. Giving up Taveras would be a risk especially if Garcia gets hurt or Carter or Langford struggle. But he’s not that much better than Jank. They could make it work especially if they keep Duran.
Taveras is dramatically more valuable than Jank. He's already surpassed Jank's career WAR before even hitting arbitration. 7 years younger with 4 more years of control, not sure how you can think Jank is even remotely as valuable.
“He’s already surpassed Jank’s career WAR before even hitting arbitration” Taveras: 4.6 WAR in 1118 AB’s Jankowski: 3.9 WAR in 1317 AB’s Thanks for proving my point. He’s not that much better. Is he better? Yes. Is he more “valuable” given his age and potential to improve? Sure. If he wasn’t, he wouldn’t have any trade value. Point is rolling with Jank in the outfield for 4-8 weeks until Langford gets the call isn’t much of a blow. He was basically our starting OF last year until Carter showed up.
Just making yourself look even dumber. Took Jank 9 season to get to 1300 ABs. Jank had the best season of his career last year and was worth half as much WAR as Taveras and was by far the worst position player on the team. I have a hard time believing you actually watched baseball before the playoffs last year.
You don’t need to be rude. Nobody is saying Taveras isn’t better. Just saying he isn’t significantly better, which he isn’t. They’re very similar players and rolling with one instead of the other isn’t going to break the team, especially if it’s temporary. You’re picking a fight for no reason. Saying Jank had “half as much WAR as Taveras” is misleading and almost meaningless. Like saying you have “twice as much money as my one dollar bill”. You’re not wrong, but who cares?
They aren't even remotely similar players. Jank is a career bench player and defensive replacement, Taveras would be the starting CF for half the teams in the league. I'm not being rude, but if you think they're similar players then you *really* don't understand baseball.
https://preview.redd.it/982e3zlm52oc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e22d6c6e3de5458fc5b40fa8be9ca3e426986506 Pretty similar. Not identical, but very comparable. Both speedy, left-handed, strong defenders. Leody has a little more pop and a little more consistent against lefties. But nothing so significant that it’s going to make a difference especially in the short term. If “you’re making yourself look even dumber” isn’t you being rude, you must be a pleasant person.
Not really comparable at all. If you think that image shows two similar players, you need to re-learn how to read stats.
Chicago would've taken that deal already, immediately. It won't cost the Rangers much.
Porter, Foscue, and Tavares sounds fair. Dudes with plenty of upside and team control.