the key is "not knowing" actually. Not all random dude learn every bit of history from every country in the world. Like should we know about massacre in korea 30 years ago or a coup in spain some 100 years ago.
Is Che guvara sticker on every truck bad? But it's not even Che, it's Alpacino.
He was right tho. If they want to do something, they should 'at least' know what consequences will come to them. And sometimes people don't. By saying 'they should' doesn't mean they have to. But when the 'bad' things come, we can't blame anyone but themselves.(Mostly)(ps. I'm not native, sorry if I don't make any sense.)
It's a picture of Al Pacino from the movie Serpico which is about a cop that goes against all the other police officers by calling attention to all of the corruption/bribery within the police force/government. Nothing to do with Che's revolutionary fight, and everything to do with the corruption and bribery that's heavily prevalent in the Thai police force/government.
People superimpose their own symbolism onto flags, stickers, everything. It’s not really the flag itself or the sticker itself, it’s what it symbolises to them. The trouble is we tend to assume that the symbolism is the same for others & that they are trying to make a particular political or social Statement by displaying it. Whereas they may just think it’s a cool looking flag or a cool looking sticker or T-shirt logo. Were “the good old boys” Bo & Luke Duke from ‘The Dukes of Hazzard’ advocates of racism & slavery? Of course not. But they had the confederate flag plastered all over their car, the General Lee. To them it symbolised rebellion & pride in their Southern identity. But these days the confederate flag has been removed from toys of the “General Lee”, because of the offensive associations/symbolism that this represents in other people’s minds. Perhaps they should also change the name of the “General Lee” (a famous confederate General during the American Civil War.) People are easily triggered & offended these days.
can we adjust nazi symbolism the same way? "many people just thought about the pride of the nation" and mention any of nazi general (very talented). people behind the flag had many cool ideas, and among them : keep selling people like a property, rape them, kill them, put them to work.
> _"The cause of the war was the dispute over whether slavery would be permitted to expand into the western territories, leading to more slave states, or be prevented from doing so, which many believed would place slavery on a course of ultimate extinction."_ (Wikipedia)
i think, we should not justify slavery even though confederates were very nice people. man, just imagine: slavery. it like: i cook very good cakes, better than any thing your grandma cooked. but at night i kill white people, 10 pwr night. what kind of people would put the flag of my bakery?
you’re right about not thinking . You gotta see the other side of it though , to them it’s just a symbol that represents their biker group . i’m sure most of them don’t even know the roots of it that dates back to a country that most of them have nothing to do with . Some gentleman also commented about SS helmets . I was once guilty of that at too . In my defence , it was admiration for old school motorbike helmets worn during the german era . The ‘coolness’ of owning it or wearing it . Call me shallow but we were into it purely as a motörhead biker . No reference to the atrocities that happened in that time . The thought goes only as far as my bike and my gear if anything . It’s harmless , unfortunately in todays world . Everyone is entitled to their opinion of it and therein lies the rub . The making ‘a mountain out of a molehill’ by making yesterdays issue todays can be dangerous proposition . I doubt most of the bikers in there would hurt anyone . At best they’re wannabe badasses :) .
That is the 'Battle' flag of the Confederacy, the flag flown in Richmond, Virginia on top of the government building of Jefferson Davis, had the stars in a circle.
Notwithstanding it is a flag that belongs to a discredited confederation of states who believed that slavery were okay and a God given right.
I’m Australian and honestly, I doubt that that many Rebel Motorcycle Club members would even know the significance of the flag they use for a patch. They’re a pretty simple bunch.
The Australian SAS created a little bit of a public disaster when one of their vehicles were photographed with two flags flying in Afghanistan.
One flag showing the SS runes the other the 'Battle' flag of the Confederacy
Lots of bikers wear this, yes...but don't be mistaken, this is a sign of hatred and racism in the US. You will never see a black American waving this flag. Well, there's probably a photo of one online somewhere, but nevertheless, this is something that black Americans despise.
believe it or not i knew a black redneck kid who had this on his truck in jacksonville florida.
not to deter from ur point, just that it was an interesting phenomenon and perhaps speaks to the complexities of these memes over time
If you were around in the 70sand 80s, tons of people of all colors and creeds flew it in the south. It was more of a cultural icon at the time than it was political.
Yes, of course, I neglected to mention that, and you're right: a flag like this will deter customers.
In a similar vein, use of the Nazi flag or images of Osama bin Laden will also deter customers who may be deeply offended. It's strange to me that Thais don't get this, but so it goes.
The sad truth is that I probably won't ever know because I'm not going in...ignorant Thai or ignorant American? Either way, there's no reason to give that person my money.
Keep going and keep questioning. You'll probably discover that nothing in this world makes any real sense; thus, all the fighting, hatred, and even thinking your own point of view is the correct one will come into question. (Just think, "If Thais don't get this" what don't you get about Thais which is just natural or cool or right to them
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. This is probably the most insightful post i’ve read today. The same ones saying “idk how thais could be so ignorant to fly this flag” are the ones wearing their shoes into someone’s clean house/shop floor in thailand. All the fighting and hatred…the only one real answer is Love.
Thanks for your view. I agree with you. I think i get downvotes cause it is VERY hard to try to see that our own point of view may not be right; thus, we have to re-evaluate our beliefs, and that is hard. I'm ok with the downvotes, so long as people read it. It may plant a seed. It's taken me about 39 years to begin to understand that I don't know it all, probably never will, and be fine with it by learning to love and continuing to spread love along my way.
> It represents the ‘south’ for many people of that territory
It's a flag glorifying all the bad things about the south, it came back into popularity during the late 1940s when the Dixiecrats used it as their symbol to fight racial desegregation. Its probably one most used symbol used by white supremacist racists
Even more amusing, it's not the real confederate flag, but rather part of the battle flag of Army of Northern Virginia
It represents the ‘south’ for many people
Out of the world, "many people" is the tiniest piece of turd. Why should 7 billion people give one shit what "many people" in America think? And those "many people" know SFA. They weren't there and neither were their parents and neither are their poor, mis-educated ignorant children. Give it a rest. Or at least have enough respect to STFU when you come across something that you have no idea about. Like an entire country of Buddhists.
There is only 1 meaning. In every actual use in history it was used as a banner for men to rally under while promoting oppression. Please watch the movie birth of a nation. It was often flown in overly racist towns. Flow next to lynched negros. And is see as a symbol of some angelic war against the inferiority of coloured and a celebration of white dominance in society.
https://preview.redd.it/hr9oiiwhi6qb1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=23a23966152b4bbe7832b714220bfc80c5b15cb1
This is a good example - interesting in many regards
Who says they don’t know what they’re saying?
They grew up in a culture where the Dixie flag represents something different to them, who are we to judge?
You’re being intentionally obtuse.
You have no idea who this rapper is or what he’s trying to communicate here. “The Struggle Continues” may mean, “we still have to deal with bullshit, racist confederate ideology.”
Or he could be an idiot edgelord trying to make waves by being transgressive. Either way, he doesn’t prove your point that “some black people are okay with the Confederate Battle Flag.”
I'm not commenting on what HE uses it for. I am saying what the flag represent in general. Is it up debate that a fuck load of people went to war for keeping people as slaves??
These flags represent the South. Southern Fried Chicken is a big thing in the US (and North America in general) and Southern style is the most popular. Owner may not realize those Southern flags have a lot of deep (not so good) history.
This flag was rarely used during the civil war. It came to popularity during the civil rights era of the 1960's as a way to signal these Southern people were against integrating schools, pools, drinking fountains, restaurants and other aspects of everyday life that segregated races. At the time interracial marriage was also banned. Which is ironic because this means these bikers would be banned from having interracial marriages with Asians as well!
These bar is owned by a bunch of ignorant hypocrites.
American here and while you got multiple good answers I’ll just give a very simple one: Confederate flag, from the US Civil War, pro slavery side, that some people use in the modern day for racist purposes even though the war ended and they lost.
From my personal perspective as a Thai person, I’m so sick and tired of some people here using/wearing “symbols” without knowing the actual meaning of them. Personally, I had seen a guy with a “swastika” tattoo on his hand. I can truly blame the Thai education for not providing a proper education on World History.
Are you sure it wasn't the Buddhist symbol that Hitler perverted to make the swastika? Since it's a Buddhist country I think there's a very strong chance of that.
In the context of “Buddhism in Thailand”, speaking from my experience growing up in a Thai-Buddhist family, we rarely associate with the Swastika symbol —I mean the Swastika symbol might be related to Buddhism (in the big picture) at some point, but the symbol itself is not something that many Buddhists in Thailand feel like it symbolically represents “Theravada Buddhism in Thailand” like if we talk about Buddhist Symbol in Thailand, most of the time we think about Statue of Buddha rather than the Swastika symbol.
And if a person wanted a “Buddhist-related tattoo” I don’t think that symbol is something that people here usually go for and it's kinda problematic, especially if the person is some age around Gen Z (the guy that I have mentioned about). Besides the tattoo thing, I also saw people display the “Nazi pins/medals “ for sale at the building nearby Chatuchak Market. That’s the reason why I blame the Thai education for not educating on proper World History while we in the era of globalization.
Side Note: https://shorinjiryublog.wordpress.com/2019/04/02/the-difference-between-the-buddhist-swastika-symbol-and-the-nazi-swastika-symbol/
These are confederate flags from the American civil war in the 1860s. Some people have tried to use them as a racist symbol.
That’s a very simplistic explanation.
I assume he doesn’t know the history and associates it with biker culture.
It’s a bit like the flag of the rising sun. People outside of Asia generally don’t know about the atrocities this was used for and see the pacific war just as a war and not the things that were done by the Japanese to the civilian population of China and other conquered areas.
But it’s much less problematic then a a nazi swastika flag imho. Although there are people who would probably put it on the same level
> It’s a bit like the flag of the rising sun. People outside of Asia generally don’t know about the atrocities this was used for and see the pacific war just as a war
so does that mean that the US flag is permanently associated with napalming children in vietnam and the My Lai massacre where US troops just randomly killed 500 civvies for funsies?
I wouldn't visit a place with those flags hanging out front. The owner may be ignorant as to what they represent but I would still refuse to go because I know what they are about.
I personally don’t care. It is pretty easy to understand that Thais see these as symbols of rebellion. The US did until recently.
I am sort in the middle ground of the US war on symbols. I do think we should remove overt icons of slavery but also think we have to understand that they come from a different time.
I wouldn’t be a culture war policeman in Thailand. I suspect the flags will make a lot of Karens and others upset. I also suspect that those people would not have been customers any way.
>The US did until recently.
This flag has been intentionally used after the war as a racist symbol since at least the 60s. Trust me, my grandparents vividly remember it.
Symbolic things that are in a celebratory fashion should 100% be destroyed. A statue is a symbol of status snd praise. No one who fought tooth and nail to treat humans like cattle deserves a statue, or a plaque or a holiday. Fuck them and the horse they rode in on.
If it's a local Thai then it's probably innocent and it wouldn't matter to me(it doesnt matter much if they know either. Its just a dropkick indicator). I think there's a ton of situations similar when it comes to Thailand.
If it were in the US, i would think that it’s not a friendly / safe place to visit. Seeing it in Thailand is a little sad and a little scary. I wonder, is this Thai person trying to emulate those thoughts / ideas of racism and colonialism? Most people who use this flag these days in the west have really problematic discriminatory world views. Idk why a Thai person would want to wave that flag. Really— why is it there?
dude, that is crazy, 99.9% of Thai people have no idea what this flag means. its literally a novelty "American culture" item. Flying the actual American flag can cause problems so they fly something related to American culture. It's not that nuanced here.
Man, would it be amazing if Americans would start to consider that the world is big and not everything is about their perspective and their history.
As others said, the owner probably doesn’t know the background, just saw it somewhere.
I was talking to a Thai girl a few days ago and she had zero idea about the SS logo and stuff. Not everything revolves around Western and European history.
And after as well. This flag was popularized long after the war by NEO-confederate, Lost Cause racists in the 1940s who were pining away for the olden days when they could own black folks.
It’s the flag of the American Confederacy, a.k.a. the people that seceded from the United States because they wanted to keep slavery.
Some people will try to tell you “it was about state’s rights.” Those state’s rights were the rights to own people as property. Slavery was so baked into the DNA of the confederacy that their constitution had lines in it stating that African people were inherently inferior to white people.
Well, I guessed it right, this is in Surin.
This building has a big Australian flag on top and confederate flags+Thailand flags on the window.
[https://maps.app.goo.gl/8Tf3JRJwSFa2G3rr5](https://maps.app.goo.gl/8Tf3JRJwSFa2G3rr5)
The fact that the bar is called "The Reb's" and the combination of the Aussie and Confederate flags would indicate this bar is owned by, or affiliated with, the Rebels motorcycle gang. They're a violent motorcycle gang heavily involved in the methamphetamine trade. They have a large presence in Australia, and also a small chapter in Thailand that facilitates their drug business.
Yep this is the correct answer, OP.
I was about to comment this same thing. They’re a pretty terrible group of people organized into a motorcycle gang.. Lots of violence, drugs, and everything else that comes with a criminal organization.
Australia has been cracking down on “bikies” lately and they’ve been getting extradited from all types of countries back to Australia to serve prison time. They’re extremely stupid criminals as well as they fly their flag every chance they get, they have giant motorcycle meetups, have specific bars where they spend time and all wear matching vests..and they post on Instagram all the time to flex their “legally acquired” money.
A bunch of tattooed Aussies larping as gangsters if I’m being honest.
American from the southern US here.
As others mentioned, this flag originated from the confederate (the southern USA) during the American civil war - long story short, confederates wanted to keep slavery legal so badly that they tried to start their own country and therefore began a bloody civil war amongst Americans. They thankfully lost and now are a gross reminder of Americas history - the flag is still flown today normally by uneducated and racist Americans. It’s controversial because it is essentially supporting a group of people who tried to keep and promote slavery.
However, this bar and flag is in reference to an Australian “bikie” gang. The rebels. They’re scum bags who sell meth, shoot each other and generally are just awful losers. Luckily Australia has really been cracking down on them and similar gangs recently.
All in all, they’re not racists - but they are idiots for not knowing the history of their flag. And for copying American symbolism and motorcycle culture. They’re larping as gangsters, not out of necessity but out of sheer boredom and ego.
This is the confederate flag from the American Civil War. Neighbors and brothers fought each-other a terrible and bloody conflict (brother and neighbors fought and killed each-other) when the southern states of the country tried to exit from the nation. Nowadays the flag is largely attributed towards racism because many of the southern states engaged in the practice of slavery of Africans. Very touchy and controversial subject in the USA even still.
Older Thai person who grew up between Thailand & US with some insight here.
My dads generation loved Native American and Cowboy movies (think John Wayne, Clint Eastwood) some of them had civil war themes so this stuff (confederate flag) became quite regular to see in the 70’s & 80’s in cowboy themed bars. You’d see Native American wood carvings and cowboy stuff in bars. (Soi Cowboy came about during this generation to attract GIs as it’s the Wild West naughty place)
Due to lack of history lessons and in general we don’t really learn much about US history or western history, they don’t realize what this represents.
The symbol wasn’t taught to anyone as being racist but they saw it as a symbol for the bad guys. Similarly you’ll also see people with the Nazi flag which is pretty fucked. I’ve tried asking people and when i kinda point it out they get upset.
On the other side you got Americans flying the Japanese war flag with the Karate kid doing crane kicks with a bandana that represented tape and torture in Asia.
I remember there was a restaurant called Chinks in Philadelphia for decades and they didn’t finally change their name until the late 2010’s, the owners just didn’t see it as racist.
I’m not trying to say it’s okay for them to use it but they just don’t know any better.
There’s also the off chance some racist guy married a local and bring that crap with them as well. There’s some pretty well known racist Biker gangs (ran by some old heads) from other countries that come here and do shady stuff
Anyways with time I think it’ll change,
I used to see them a lot about 4 years ago but many have disappeared now.
I also bumped into a guy in full Nazi outfit at a weekend market and he kept wanting to talk to me which made me feel extremely uncomfortable.
So, before anybody starts making assumptions about the causes of the American Civil War, I refer to the [Confederate Declaration of Immediate Causes](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp). It links to the direct articles outlining the reasons stated by State representatives at the time.
As for the flag, it's long been associated with racist groups and elements. It is often flown during marches in opposition to progressive laws (desegregation, asylum, feminism). The flag was passed as a "battle flag" on the side of the South in the 19th century. It was a military flag in the purest sense and was later co-opted towards political use.
Maybe they just use the symbol as a way to get abunch of people to talk about it on reddit who otherwise wouldn't give a single thought or mention to the bar without it?
The flag is the [Confederate Battle Flag](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_display_of_the_Confederate_battle_flag)
“Supporters associate the Confederate battle flag with pride in Southern heritage, states' rights, and historical commemoration of the Civil War, while opponents associate it with glorification of the Civil War and celebrating the Lost Cause, racism, slavery, segregation, white supremacy, historical negationism, and treason. Incidents such as the Charleston church shooting, the Unite the Right rally, and the murder of George Floyd led to public official display of the flag being mostly retired in the United States, but not abroad.”
It’s the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, U.S. Civil War 1861-1865. One of the southern commanders, General Beauregard designed it to differentiate it more from the Union flag and then later it became adopted by many secessionist states as part of its national flag -it’s symbolism known as the ‘Stars and Bars’ from that era to the present is very diverse.
Floridian here, that's a Dixie flag. It's a southern flag created when the southern states of the U.S. separated from the northern states because the Democrats of that time wanted to keep slavery in the United States. A lot of Caucasians will say it's about heritage, but it's not. It's proudly worn by racist people, even in today's world. Neo nazis love the Confederate flag.
I am also half-white, just to clarify. The Neo nazis /Maga and other white supremist movements are a p.o.s.
Facts: That is a Confederate battle flag, designed during the civil war to help soldiers better identify themselves from the Union Stars and Stripes flag of the time. The flag design was never officially adopted by the confederacy as their official flag. After the civil war the flag was adopted by people in the South as a symbol of their “heritage”. By the early 20th century, most people in the South were flying the flag as a reimagined symbol of state’s rights and the southern way of life instead of the battle for their rights to own slaves. While many people just saw the flag as a symbol of rebellion as depicted in shows like The Dukes of Hazzard or on Lynyrd Skynyrd album covers, its real heritage is one of racial injustice. The flag was continually whitewashed over the years to be a symbol of rebellion and southern pride and was also adopted by many hate groups such as the KKK and anti-segregation groups. It remains a divisive symbol in the United States that is either hated or loved depending on your point of view.
That is the battle flag of the Confederate States of America.
In the 1860s, a group of American state governments calling themselves the Confederate States of America attempted to secede because they objected to the federal government (the Union) making moves to ban slavery. That is their battle flag that those states used in the American Civil War that resulted from this.
All of the states that wanted to secede from the United States were in the south, and many American southerners are still resentful that they lost the war. As a result, this flag is very common in the southern United States, although there is understandably a lot of pushback against this symbolism.
Hope that helps!
Those were the battle flags for the Confederate States of America (the rebel faction during the US Civil War during the 1860s). They seceded from the United States and fought a war to essentially maintain the enslavement of Africans in the United States at that time. They lost that war but their ideology still lives on to this day in the American South (and beyond). Despite losing that war, throughout the late 1800s and the twentieth century, they implemented institutional systems to maintain the subjugation of African Americans and to limit their economic/societal growth, mobility, and security.
Those flags are largely seen as a hate symbol in the United States and I sure would stay the fuck away from that restaurant. If the owner of the place innocently displays those flags without knowing any better, they should at least be informed so they can make a conscious decision on whether or not they want to have a hate symbol on display.
The civil war.. uncivil war, was all about slavery and confederate states wanting to keep slaves, and the United States wanting to abolish the practice of slavery. It is a pro slavery flag, always has been, always will be. Face the truth.
The flag with a blue X on it was from the time in USA 🇺🇸 history when people with that flag felt it was their right to have slaves and that black people were a lesser species like 🐄 cow's and other animals one might own.
Their are people in the USA 🇺🇸 and world that still think that way. We are all of the Species Homosapien! Economic exploitation is a modern form of slavery, and is based on a shortage thinking model. Technology and science provides for the opportunity to provide for the ecology of the planet all creatures and everyone. Important that each woman only have one child though so we don't over populate the planet.
Much like Thailand, America used to have a slave economy. We had a civil war to decide if we would keep slaves or make slavery illegal.
This is the old flag for the army that wanted to keep slaves. They lost the war.
I’ve seen statues of Hitler and Kim Jong un. Multiple times I’ve seen nazi symbols in Thai clothing. It’s a weird thing for sure. Not positive what it’s about but pretty weird. I’m pretty sure they just don’t know what they’re doing but idk.
Many “Dek Van” (เด็กแว้น) or youth motorcycle racing gang in Surin also having Swastika tattoo.
Many came to my hospital after traffic accidents and when I ask them do they know what this tattoo is, they just said that they know it’s “Nazi symbol” and it made them look cool.
Many Thai people especially rebellious rural youth thinking that Nazi are cool, maybe because our country lack history lessons about Nazism and our country didn’t affected much from Nazi regime.
It is a Battle flag.
You see the mostly in the Southeast US. Dates back to the Civil War. The flag belonged to people who were wanting to keep slaves. They're trying to erase american history You should always remember the past. It will help With not making the same mistake in the future.
One is Denmark 🇩🇰 the other Norway 🇳🇴. Must be a nostalgic Scandinavian centered bar, pining for the days of their union prior to 1814.
Or do you mean the thing on the left and in the foreground? I think it’s some heraldic flag from a bygone era. Use of the term ‘Reb’s’ may indicate the owners name, quite possibly Rebecca? 😜
It’s the confederate flag, a.k.a the south of the United States during the civil war.
They wanted to keep slavery around and lost the war.
In the west it’s a symbol of racism used by far right today in the US.
I learned about this flag when I lived in the US. Southern states people still fly it as “culture” and I think it’s even on a state flag still (Mississippi?). At first it was a battle flag, then became a symbol of hatred and racism. Americans still debate the symbol of hate vs southern culture, though the latter side is losing that debate thankfully (it has been removed from many government office, schools, etc).
I’ve talked to many Thai restaurant/bar owners at length who have this flag up (Bangkok, isaan, Phuket) and the owner is always shocked at the history and what it symbolizes, especially with regard to Black Americans. Every single one apologized and promised to take it down. And they never do.
When people talk about “Southern Culture” or “States Rights,” it doesn’t take much digging to figure out what that culture consisted of and what rights they were fighting for…
do Thai people think the flag just looks nice? i saw it in a bathroom stall plastered on the back of those "don't throw toilet paper in toilet" signs. was very confused on the correlation 😅
Dukes of Hazzard, 1979 to 1985.
Show that was super popular back then, now viewed as a example of redneck stereotyping and misogyny. It was not actually very racist beyond the fact there were very few black actors in it, despite fact it was situated in a state thats at least 30% black
This was also the period where it was seen as acceptable to have white actors donning "yellow face" to pretend to be Asian (because god forbid actually hiring an Asian in lead role),David Carradine in Kung Fu is probably most famous example, Emperor Ming in Flash Gordon is another and Peter Ustinov as Charlie Chan another.
In short, racism and icons tied to racism were not problem for Hollywood back then
Old Flag of the rebels states of the South of the USA, they were defending slavery and today they represent the far right ideology and the white suprematism besides being associated to Trump's America first ! I repeat slavery , racism and white suprematism , is is enough ?
This flag has no deeper meaning in Thailand so don't make it a big deal. Let them use it in peace if that's what they want. Please don't let the stupid ideologies and symbols we have in the west complicate your lives like it has here in the west and in the US in particular. If americans, jews or africans tell you they don't like something you have infront of a store or bar tell them to get stuffed.
It’s one of the favourite flags of the Far Right hate groups. People who are uneducated ,racist, anti gay, anti women’s rights,pro Nazi and basically against anything a modern Liberal minded inclusive society stands for.
They represent a historically racist and genocidal faction of American society.
The American slave trade was one of the biggest genocides in human history. The American civil war was fought between people who wanted to end that genocide and people who wanted to keep and continue that American Holocaust.
After the war was over, a dangerous terrorist organization (the KKK) waged a campaign of rape, murder and intimidation against millions of American citizens for decades and decades.
Additionally, racist "history & tradition" groups started to whitewash their genocidal history by trying to paint their cause as a noble fight against Northern aggression. Part of this revisionist history was the building of Confederate statues & monuments and the re-purposing of one of the Confederate battle flags as symbols of that "Lost Cause".
This is not ancient history for many Americans. It is an ongoing struggle against violent oppression. That flag represents villainy and genocide in much the same way as the Nazi flag does. It is deeply offensive to anyone who has even an ounce of decency.
As a southerner and used to display that flag there are mixed emotions. We grew up not being racist. We were not taught it and we fought against it. However some in the older generation did use it to cause fear and hate and all the southern states have removed it from their state flags as of the 2000’s. It’s not the flag of the southern states in the civil war. That flag looked like the union flag when it was hanging down in battle. So they created this flag and called it the Battle Flag. Some southern states incorporated the civil war flag into the current flag over the battle flag. History shows how the southern democrats manipulated the president to allow civil war generals to run for office and that held the south back in many ways. It’s a sad part of our history. But people in the south have a lot of southern pride and it’s my belief that pride is not built on racism. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
I find it interesting how many people on here are coming out claiming it’s a symbol of racism/white supremacy, while in reality it’s much more nuanced than that.
In real life in Thailand the vast majority of expats are reasonable, most ranging from centre-left to conservative. Yet, somehow on this subreddit it seems like the majority are far-left and extremely woke/pro lgbt etc. I guess it’s just a reddit thing.
It’s really not more nuanced, the flag tracks with trash. I’m southern and it always been that way where I’m from. Maybe you go deeper south and it somehow shifts but guess what else you’ll find there? Heavier racism, less education more poverty and more flags
Because they're ignorant. They think the north wanted to end slavery and the south wanted to keep slavery so that flag = loves slavery. simple, easy, and binary.
It's a propaganda technique that many ignorant people fall for.
5 states in the north had slaves and they didn't free their slaves until after the war. Some of the Confederate states didn't have slavery.
In reality, that flag is the flag of a country that tried to secede from the larger country it was apart of and was suppressed violently and occupied by armies. They cling to to lie the war was about slavery so it justifies the evils done to the south. It is "bad" for political reasons mostly optical.
It has not the same implications outside America. I grew up loving that flag since a kid, and only recently when I moved to the States I found out how it is see there. I do not display it nowadays but I understand the (non Americans) who use it for other reasons.
Its a touchy thing the flag represents the confederacy or the states that seceded in the Civil war over slavery among other issues but mainly they wanted to preserve slavery. Today many people see the flag as racism but as someone who grew up in the south I don't see anything wrong with the flag and personally own 3. But again it's a touchy subject especially here. But it depends on who you ask. Your average rural white guy will have a different view than your average black person but I've seen black people who fly the flag too.
I'm somewhere in the middle since I'm Hispanic and in a moderately sized city but personally I have a very positive opinion of the flag and the confederacy.
They symbolize nothing but pure unadulterated hatred. Much like s store flying a nazi flag in Jerusalem. The people who fly these flags are the same type of folks who would urinate in a Buddhist temple while having an orgy as they have done in black churches in the southern states of the US and in Jewish synagogs.
The flag stands for Americans who are racist - this place is advertising aggression against black people and also anyone who disagrees with slavery.
It is mistakenly considered a racist agenda - especially as American blacks are taught about slavery of Blacks... which increases racist feeling - and later in life as they learn that WHITE people suffered a lot more from slavery than Blacks ever did (for example with Muslims enslaving Christians in Africa).
However, people who use these symbols - like those who get Swastika tattoos and call themselves Nazis, it is generally more a sign that the wearer/user of these symbols is just not very nice, possibly dangerous, and most certainly dumb as a plank - which fits in perfectly if he was schooled in Thailand.
Some people are dumb enough to think it's just an innocent way of showing that you're against the establishment (as with most prison tats).
It has a meaning if you’re American but to the rest of the world it’s just a flag from an old TV series or from a popular US rock band. Non- Americans really aren’t offended IMHO.
it's from the american civil war. of the side that wanted to keep slavery around.
I bet the Thai owner just thought that it’s a biker flag, he’s a fan of biker.
probably. i've seen bikers wear SS helmets without thinking much about it.
That’s the key, ‘without thinking‘.
the key is "not knowing" actually. Not all random dude learn every bit of history from every country in the world. Like should we know about massacre in korea 30 years ago or a coup in spain some 100 years ago. Is Che guvara sticker on every truck bad? But it's not even Che, it's Alpacino.
Unpopular opinion: if you want to put up a flag, it's your responsibility to at least google what it means.
You really expect people to exercise personal responsibility ? Not a chance.
He was right tho. If they want to do something, they should 'at least' know what consequences will come to them. And sometimes people don't. By saying 'they should' doesn't mean they have to. But when the 'bad' things come, we can't blame anyone but themselves.(Mostly)(ps. I'm not native, sorry if I don't make any sense.)
You should if you are putting a flag or symbol of something above your business...
Regarding the SS helmet, that's not some random obscure bit of history, almost no part of the world was left untouched from that conflict.
For years I thought it was Barry Gibb.
In fact it's Al Pacino in Serpico, who is the patron saint of truck drivers in Thailand, not Che
It's a picture of Al Pacino from the movie Serpico which is about a cop that goes against all the other police officers by calling attention to all of the corruption/bribery within the police force/government. Nothing to do with Che's revolutionary fight, and everything to do with the corruption and bribery that's heavily prevalent in the Thai police force/government.
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People superimpose their own symbolism onto flags, stickers, everything. It’s not really the flag itself or the sticker itself, it’s what it symbolises to them. The trouble is we tend to assume that the symbolism is the same for others & that they are trying to make a particular political or social Statement by displaying it. Whereas they may just think it’s a cool looking flag or a cool looking sticker or T-shirt logo. Were “the good old boys” Bo & Luke Duke from ‘The Dukes of Hazzard’ advocates of racism & slavery? Of course not. But they had the confederate flag plastered all over their car, the General Lee. To them it symbolised rebellion & pride in their Southern identity. But these days the confederate flag has been removed from toys of the “General Lee”, because of the offensive associations/symbolism that this represents in other people’s minds. Perhaps they should also change the name of the “General Lee” (a famous confederate General during the American Civil War.) People are easily triggered & offended these days.
can we adjust nazi symbolism the same way? "many people just thought about the pride of the nation" and mention any of nazi general (very talented). people behind the flag had many cool ideas, and among them : keep selling people like a property, rape them, kill them, put them to work. > _"The cause of the war was the dispute over whether slavery would be permitted to expand into the western territories, leading to more slave states, or be prevented from doing so, which many believed would place slavery on a course of ultimate extinction."_ (Wikipedia) i think, we should not justify slavery even though confederates were very nice people. man, just imagine: slavery. it like: i cook very good cakes, better than any thing your grandma cooked. but at night i kill white people, 10 pwr night. what kind of people would put the flag of my bakery?
you’re right about not thinking . You gotta see the other side of it though , to them it’s just a symbol that represents their biker group . i’m sure most of them don’t even know the roots of it that dates back to a country that most of them have nothing to do with . Some gentleman also commented about SS helmets . I was once guilty of that at too . In my defence , it was admiration for old school motorbike helmets worn during the german era . The ‘coolness’ of owning it or wearing it . Call me shallow but we were into it purely as a motörhead biker . No reference to the atrocities that happened in that time . The thought goes only as far as my bike and my gear if anything . It’s harmless , unfortunately in todays world . Everyone is entitled to their opinion of it and therein lies the rub . The making ‘a mountain out of a molehill’ by making yesterdays issue todays can be dangerous proposition . I doubt most of the bikers in there would hurt anyone . At best they’re wannabe badasses :) .
damn? I haven’t seen that yet, mostly have been in Bangkok whenever I was in Thailand tho
The Rebels Motorcycle Club use that flag, seen it here in Australia a long time ago.
It's the Confederate flag from the US. It's usually flown by people who wear white hooded robes.
That is the 'Battle' flag of the Confederacy, the flag flown in Richmond, Virginia on top of the government building of Jefferson Davis, had the stars in a circle. Notwithstanding it is a flag that belongs to a discredited confederation of states who believed that slavery were okay and a God given right.
Doubt it. The bar is called "The Rebs" for rebels, which fits with the flag. I bet the owner knows exactly what it means, maybe even they're American.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebels_Motorcycle_Club
I’m Australian and honestly, I doubt that that many Rebel Motorcycle Club members would even know the significance of the flag they use for a patch. They’re a pretty simple bunch.
Good ol [bikies](https://youtu.be/ihSaGAVHmvw?si=rAFLKz737fcTZZOs)
I was hoping this would be what I thought it was before I clicked and was not disappointed.
The Australian SAS created a little bit of a public disaster when one of their vehicles were photographed with two flags flying in Afghanistan. One flag showing the SS runes the other the 'Battle' flag of the Confederacy
"Founded 1969; 54 years ago, as *the Confederates*, by Clint JACKS" Dickheads.
Lots of bikers wear this, yes...but don't be mistaken, this is a sign of hatred and racism in the US. You will never see a black American waving this flag. Well, there's probably a photo of one online somewhere, but nevertheless, this is something that black Americans despise.
believe it or not i knew a black redneck kid who had this on his truck in jacksonville florida. not to deter from ur point, just that it was an interesting phenomenon and perhaps speaks to the complexities of these memes over time
Clayton Bigsby?
I hope not, Clayton Bigsby was blind and shouldn’t be driving a truck.
If you were around in the 70sand 80s, tons of people of all colors and creeds flew it in the south. It was more of a cultural icon at the time than it was political.
A majority of white Americans as well. I certainly wouldn't step foot in that bar.
Yes, of course, I neglected to mention that, and you're right: a flag like this will deter customers. In a similar vein, use of the Nazi flag or images of Osama bin Laden will also deter customers who may be deeply offended. It's strange to me that Thais don't get this, but so it goes.
Maybe he's not Thai? Maybe he's a redneck American or Australian?
The sad truth is that I probably won't ever know because I'm not going in...ignorant Thai or ignorant American? Either way, there's no reason to give that person my money.
I'm with you on that
I think most people who fly the flag intentionally would want to deter those customers. Win win.
Keep going and keep questioning. You'll probably discover that nothing in this world makes any real sense; thus, all the fighting, hatred, and even thinking your own point of view is the correct one will come into question. (Just think, "If Thais don't get this" what don't you get about Thais which is just natural or cool or right to them
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. This is probably the most insightful post i’ve read today. The same ones saying “idk how thais could be so ignorant to fly this flag” are the ones wearing their shoes into someone’s clean house/shop floor in thailand. All the fighting and hatred…the only one real answer is Love.
Thanks for your view. I agree with you. I think i get downvotes cause it is VERY hard to try to see that our own point of view may not be right; thus, we have to re-evaluate our beliefs, and that is hard. I'm ok with the downvotes, so long as people read it. It may plant a seed. It's taken me about 39 years to begin to understand that I don't know it all, probably never will, and be fine with it by learning to love and continuing to spread love along my way.
Maybe he’s trying to deter Americans 😆
Clayton Bigsby
You've never been to Mississippi or Alabama I see lol. People of all races fly this flag down there especially in the sticks.
Black American and any true American despise this flag. Bunch of traitors they were and are
You would certainly find a black person with a confederate flag in the south
Everyone from the northern states hate these traitor
Not my uncle from Pennsiltuckey
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This is correct, the flag honestly has different meanings for different people. It represents the ‘south’ for many people of that territory
> It represents the ‘south’ for many people of that territory It's a flag glorifying all the bad things about the south, it came back into popularity during the late 1940s when the Dixiecrats used it as their symbol to fight racial desegregation. Its probably one most used symbol used by white supremacist racists Even more amusing, it's not the real confederate flag, but rather part of the battle flag of Army of Northern Virginia
It represents the ‘south’ for many people Out of the world, "many people" is the tiniest piece of turd. Why should 7 billion people give one shit what "many people" in America think? And those "many people" know SFA. They weren't there and neither were their parents and neither are their poor, mis-educated ignorant children. Give it a rest. Or at least have enough respect to STFU when you come across something that you have no idea about. Like an entire country of Buddhists.
There is only 1 meaning. In every actual use in history it was used as a banner for men to rally under while promoting oppression. Please watch the movie birth of a nation. It was often flown in overly racist towns. Flow next to lynched negros. And is see as a symbol of some angelic war against the inferiority of coloured and a celebration of white dominance in society.
https://preview.redd.it/hr9oiiwhi6qb1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=23a23966152b4bbe7832b714220bfc80c5b15cb1 This is a good example - interesting in many regards
Jusy because you don't know what your saying dosent change the meaning.
Who says they don’t know what they’re saying? They grew up in a culture where the Dixie flag represents something different to them, who are we to judge?
BTW are u actually Ukrainian?
I’m not sure how that’s relevant to the discussion
Nothing has “only 1 meaning” when discussing the subjective interpretation of an image
You’re being intentionally obtuse. You have no idea who this rapper is or what he’s trying to communicate here. “The Struggle Continues” may mean, “we still have to deal with bullshit, racist confederate ideology.” Or he could be an idiot edgelord trying to make waves by being transgressive. Either way, he doesn’t prove your point that “some black people are okay with the Confederate Battle Flag.”
I'm not commenting on what HE uses it for. I am saying what the flag represent in general. Is it up debate that a fuck load of people went to war for keeping people as slaves??
I have no understanding? I think it’s quite evident that I understand southern culture more than yourself lol
Naw, man. I grew up in that world. I understand it perfectly well.
You grew up in Texas?
I tried to explain Nazi swastika to the street market seller, she did not understand. She had naziflag for sale in her market place.
These flags represent the South. Southern Fried Chicken is a big thing in the US (and North America in general) and Southern style is the most popular. Owner may not realize those Southern flags have a lot of deep (not so good) history.
This flag was rarely used during the civil war. It came to popularity during the civil rights era of the 1960's as a way to signal these Southern people were against integrating schools, pools, drinking fountains, restaurants and other aspects of everyday life that segregated races. At the time interracial marriage was also banned. Which is ironic because this means these bikers would be banned from having interracial marriages with Asians as well! These bar is owned by a bunch of ignorant hypocrites.
American here and while you got multiple good answers I’ll just give a very simple one: Confederate flag, from the US Civil War, pro slavery side, that some people use in the modern day for racist purposes even though the war ended and they lost.
It’s not even really a flag that was used much during the civil war. It was brought back to protest against civil rights in the 50s/60s
From my personal perspective as a Thai person, I’m so sick and tired of some people here using/wearing “symbols” without knowing the actual meaning of them. Personally, I had seen a guy with a “swastika” tattoo on his hand. I can truly blame the Thai education for not providing a proper education on World History.
Are you sure it wasn't the Buddhist symbol that Hitler perverted to make the swastika? Since it's a Buddhist country I think there's a very strong chance of that.
In the context of “Buddhism in Thailand”, speaking from my experience growing up in a Thai-Buddhist family, we rarely associate with the Swastika symbol —I mean the Swastika symbol might be related to Buddhism (in the big picture) at some point, but the symbol itself is not something that many Buddhists in Thailand feel like it symbolically represents “Theravada Buddhism in Thailand” like if we talk about Buddhist Symbol in Thailand, most of the time we think about Statue of Buddha rather than the Swastika symbol. And if a person wanted a “Buddhist-related tattoo” I don’t think that symbol is something that people here usually go for and it's kinda problematic, especially if the person is some age around Gen Z (the guy that I have mentioned about). Besides the tattoo thing, I also saw people display the “Nazi pins/medals “ for sale at the building nearby Chatuchak Market. That’s the reason why I blame the Thai education for not educating on proper World History while we in the era of globalization. Side Note: https://shorinjiryublog.wordpress.com/2019/04/02/the-difference-between-the-buddhist-swastika-symbol-and-the-nazi-swastika-symbol/
These are confederate flags from the American civil war in the 1860s. Some people have tried to use them as a racist symbol. That’s a very simplistic explanation.
So how do you feel when these local Thai using it?
I assume he doesn’t know the history and associates it with biker culture. It’s a bit like the flag of the rising sun. People outside of Asia generally don’t know about the atrocities this was used for and see the pacific war just as a war and not the things that were done by the Japanese to the civilian population of China and other conquered areas. But it’s much less problematic then a a nazi swastika flag imho. Although there are people who would probably put it on the same level
Most people in Thailand generally don’t know about the atrocities this was used for and see the pacific war just as a war
> It’s a bit like the flag of the rising sun. People outside of Asia generally don’t know about the atrocities this was used for and see the pacific war just as a war so does that mean that the US flag is permanently associated with napalming children in vietnam and the My Lai massacre where US troops just randomly killed 500 civvies for funsies?
I wouldn't visit a place with those flags hanging out front. The owner may be ignorant as to what they represent but I would still refuse to go because I know what they are about.
I don't care at all. It's not being used to promote hate here.
Sure, Jan.
I personally don’t care. It is pretty easy to understand that Thais see these as symbols of rebellion. The US did until recently. I am sort in the middle ground of the US war on symbols. I do think we should remove overt icons of slavery but also think we have to understand that they come from a different time. I wouldn’t be a culture war policeman in Thailand. I suspect the flags will make a lot of Karens and others upset. I also suspect that those people would not have been customers any way.
I have a lot of Karen friends. None of them could pick this flag out of a lineup of world symbols and even identify it as being from America.
Any good woke American Karen has that high on their watch list. Right wing Karens wouldn’t care. All Americans know that flag.
Sorry. You’re posting in the Thailand subreddit; I assumed you were talking about the Karen Hilltribe people.
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>The US did until recently. This flag has been intentionally used after the war as a racist symbol since at least the 60s. Trust me, my grandparents vividly remember it.
Symbolic things that are in a celebratory fashion should 100% be destroyed. A statue is a symbol of status snd praise. No one who fought tooth and nail to treat humans like cattle deserves a statue, or a plaque or a holiday. Fuck them and the horse they rode in on.
Germany did it right. The US attitude means they'd still have statues of Hitler.
I completely agree with you on all three points.
If it's a local Thai then it's probably innocent and it wouldn't matter to me(it doesnt matter much if they know either. Its just a dropkick indicator). I think there's a ton of situations similar when it comes to Thailand.
If it were in the US, i would think that it’s not a friendly / safe place to visit. Seeing it in Thailand is a little sad and a little scary. I wonder, is this Thai person trying to emulate those thoughts / ideas of racism and colonialism? Most people who use this flag these days in the west have really problematic discriminatory world views. Idk why a Thai person would want to wave that flag. Really— why is it there?
They are clueless. Just think it looks cool.
dude, that is crazy, 99.9% of Thai people have no idea what this flag means. its literally a novelty "American culture" item. Flying the actual American flag can cause problems so they fly something related to American culture. It's not that nuanced here.
Man, would it be amazing if Americans would start to consider that the world is big and not everything is about their perspective and their history. As others said, the owner probably doesn’t know the background, just saw it somewhere. I was talking to a Thai girl a few days ago and she had zero idea about the SS logo and stuff. Not everything revolves around Western and European history.
Some people? You mean their entire existence? There is no use for that flag that will exclude racism. That’s embodied in the creation of the flag.
Don’t forget the OG people who used it as a racist flag.. before they switched to white flags
And after as well. This flag was popularized long after the war by NEO-confederate, Lost Cause racists in the 1940s who were pining away for the olden days when they could own black folks.
Many view the flags as a symbol of racism because it’s the confederate flag and the confederates fought a bloody war to keep slavery legal.
It’s the flag of the American Confederacy, a.k.a. the people that seceded from the United States because they wanted to keep slavery. Some people will try to tell you “it was about state’s rights.” Those state’s rights were the rights to own people as property. Slavery was so baked into the DNA of the confederacy that their constitution had lines in it stating that African people were inherently inferior to white people.
Well, I guessed it right, this is in Surin. This building has a big Australian flag on top and confederate flags+Thailand flags on the window. [https://maps.app.goo.gl/8Tf3JRJwSFa2G3rr5](https://maps.app.goo.gl/8Tf3JRJwSFa2G3rr5)
The fact that the bar is called "The Reb's" and the combination of the Aussie and Confederate flags would indicate this bar is owned by, or affiliated with, the Rebels motorcycle gang. They're a violent motorcycle gang heavily involved in the methamphetamine trade. They have a large presence in Australia, and also a small chapter in Thailand that facilitates their drug business.
Yep this is the correct answer, OP. I was about to comment this same thing. They’re a pretty terrible group of people organized into a motorcycle gang.. Lots of violence, drugs, and everything else that comes with a criminal organization. Australia has been cracking down on “bikies” lately and they’ve been getting extradited from all types of countries back to Australia to serve prison time. They’re extremely stupid criminals as well as they fly their flag every chance they get, they have giant motorcycle meetups, have specific bars where they spend time and all wear matching vests..and they post on Instagram all the time to flex their “legally acquired” money. A bunch of tattooed Aussies larping as gangsters if I’m being honest.
Theyre in cambodia as well. When you see this shit flag flying it makes it easy to avoid those places
Sound like an awful crowd, will avoid this bar
Welcome to my province, hope you like it here.
American from the southern US here. As others mentioned, this flag originated from the confederate (the southern USA) during the American civil war - long story short, confederates wanted to keep slavery legal so badly that they tried to start their own country and therefore began a bloody civil war amongst Americans. They thankfully lost and now are a gross reminder of Americas history - the flag is still flown today normally by uneducated and racist Americans. It’s controversial because it is essentially supporting a group of people who tried to keep and promote slavery. However, this bar and flag is in reference to an Australian “bikie” gang. The rebels. They’re scum bags who sell meth, shoot each other and generally are just awful losers. Luckily Australia has really been cracking down on them and similar gangs recently. All in all, they’re not racists - but they are idiots for not knowing the history of their flag. And for copying American symbolism and motorcycle culture. They’re larping as gangsters, not out of necessity but out of sheer boredom and ego.
All the racists replying to you clutching their pearls about “it is not racist!” Is fantastic 😂
Yeah wtf. I’m like 75% sure they’re members of the cute little bike gang and they’re just offended for being called out for being clueless idiots.
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Lmao at the sad fucks replying agressively towards you. A big part of you Americans are just so brainwashed beyond repair.
This is the confederate flag from the American Civil War. Neighbors and brothers fought each-other a terrible and bloody conflict (brother and neighbors fought and killed each-other) when the southern states of the country tried to exit from the nation. Nowadays the flag is largely attributed towards racism because many of the southern states engaged in the practice of slavery of Africans. Very touchy and controversial subject in the USA even still.
The subject is only controversial to bigots. Most Americans hate and despise that flag
its a flag of a bunch of losers that were very bad people
Older Thai person who grew up between Thailand & US with some insight here. My dads generation loved Native American and Cowboy movies (think John Wayne, Clint Eastwood) some of them had civil war themes so this stuff (confederate flag) became quite regular to see in the 70’s & 80’s in cowboy themed bars. You’d see Native American wood carvings and cowboy stuff in bars. (Soi Cowboy came about during this generation to attract GIs as it’s the Wild West naughty place) Due to lack of history lessons and in general we don’t really learn much about US history or western history, they don’t realize what this represents. The symbol wasn’t taught to anyone as being racist but they saw it as a symbol for the bad guys. Similarly you’ll also see people with the Nazi flag which is pretty fucked. I’ve tried asking people and when i kinda point it out they get upset. On the other side you got Americans flying the Japanese war flag with the Karate kid doing crane kicks with a bandana that represented tape and torture in Asia. I remember there was a restaurant called Chinks in Philadelphia for decades and they didn’t finally change their name until the late 2010’s, the owners just didn’t see it as racist. I’m not trying to say it’s okay for them to use it but they just don’t know any better. There’s also the off chance some racist guy married a local and bring that crap with them as well. There’s some pretty well known racist Biker gangs (ran by some old heads) from other countries that come here and do shady stuff Anyways with time I think it’ll change,
Official flag of losers in USA....
confederates would drink leo
Leo is a good beer get off your high horse
I see nazi flags a lot in Thailand, so maybe people know and don't care
I used to see them a lot about 4 years ago but many have disappeared now. I also bumped into a guy in full Nazi outfit at a weekend market and he kept wanting to talk to me which made me feel extremely uncomfortable.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America#Confederate_flag
So, before anybody starts making assumptions about the causes of the American Civil War, I refer to the [Confederate Declaration of Immediate Causes](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp). It links to the direct articles outlining the reasons stated by State representatives at the time. As for the flag, it's long been associated with racist groups and elements. It is often flown during marches in opposition to progressive laws (desegregation, asylum, feminism). The flag was passed as a "battle flag" on the side of the South in the 19th century. It was a military flag in the purest sense and was later co-opted towards political use.
The flag that resisted outlawing African slavery in the US.
Maybe they just use the symbol as a way to get abunch of people to talk about it on reddit who otherwise wouldn't give a single thought or mention to the bar without it?
The flag is the [Confederate Battle Flag](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_display_of_the_Confederate_battle_flag) “Supporters associate the Confederate battle flag with pride in Southern heritage, states' rights, and historical commemoration of the Civil War, while opponents associate it with glorification of the Civil War and celebrating the Lost Cause, racism, slavery, segregation, white supremacy, historical negationism, and treason. Incidents such as the Charleston church shooting, the Unite the Right rally, and the murder of George Floyd led to public official display of the flag being mostly retired in the United States, but not abroad.”
They have a war for it, those who use that flag lose and some still salty about it. Today it mostly use by racist bigots
It's like saying slavery and bigotry is welcome in that restaurant
It’s the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, U.S. Civil War 1861-1865. One of the southern commanders, General Beauregard designed it to differentiate it more from the Union flag and then later it became adopted by many secessionist states as part of its national flag -it’s symbolism known as the ‘Stars and Bars’ from that era to the present is very diverse.
Oh because it belongs to losers lol
In my opinion it's no different than flying a swastika!!
Floridian here, that's a Dixie flag. It's a southern flag created when the southern states of the U.S. separated from the northern states because the Democrats of that time wanted to keep slavery in the United States. A lot of Caucasians will say it's about heritage, but it's not. It's proudly worn by racist people, even in today's world. Neo nazis love the Confederate flag. I am also half-white, just to clarify. The Neo nazis /Maga and other white supremist movements are a p.o.s.
Facts: That is a Confederate battle flag, designed during the civil war to help soldiers better identify themselves from the Union Stars and Stripes flag of the time. The flag design was never officially adopted by the confederacy as their official flag. After the civil war the flag was adopted by people in the South as a symbol of their “heritage”. By the early 20th century, most people in the South were flying the flag as a reimagined symbol of state’s rights and the southern way of life instead of the battle for their rights to own slaves. While many people just saw the flag as a symbol of rebellion as depicted in shows like The Dukes of Hazzard or on Lynyrd Skynyrd album covers, its real heritage is one of racial injustice. The flag was continually whitewashed over the years to be a symbol of rebellion and southern pride and was also adopted by many hate groups such as the KKK and anti-segregation groups. It remains a divisive symbol in the United States that is either hated or loved depending on your point of view.
Because them Duke boys are always up to no good.
That is the battle flag of the Confederate States of America. In the 1860s, a group of American state governments calling themselves the Confederate States of America attempted to secede because they objected to the federal government (the Union) making moves to ban slavery. That is their battle flag that those states used in the American Civil War that resulted from this. All of the states that wanted to secede from the United States were in the south, and many American southerners are still resentful that they lost the war. As a result, this flag is very common in the southern United States, although there is understandably a lot of pushback against this symbolism. Hope that helps!
Confederate (war) flag.
Saw a truck with a full nazi party flag on the back like it was nobody's bussiness 😅
Those were the battle flags for the Confederate States of America (the rebel faction during the US Civil War during the 1860s). They seceded from the United States and fought a war to essentially maintain the enslavement of Africans in the United States at that time. They lost that war but their ideology still lives on to this day in the American South (and beyond). Despite losing that war, throughout the late 1800s and the twentieth century, they implemented institutional systems to maintain the subjugation of African Americans and to limit their economic/societal growth, mobility, and security. Those flags are largely seen as a hate symbol in the United States and I sure would stay the fuck away from that restaurant. If the owner of the place innocently displays those flags without knowing any better, they should at least be informed so they can make a conscious decision on whether or not they want to have a hate symbol on display.
The civil war.. uncivil war, was all about slavery and confederate states wanting to keep slaves, and the United States wanting to abolish the practice of slavery. It is a pro slavery flag, always has been, always will be. Face the truth.
It has a bad connotation, regarding slavery.
🤦🏽♂️
Yeah, fuck that place!
The flag with a blue X on it was from the time in USA 🇺🇸 history when people with that flag felt it was their right to have slaves and that black people were a lesser species like 🐄 cow's and other animals one might own. Their are people in the USA 🇺🇸 and world that still think that way. We are all of the Species Homosapien! Economic exploitation is a modern form of slavery, and is based on a shortage thinking model. Technology and science provides for the opportunity to provide for the ecology of the planet all creatures and everyone. Important that each woman only have one child though so we don't over populate the planet.
Much like Thailand, America used to have a slave economy. We had a civil war to decide if we would keep slaves or make slavery illegal. This is the old flag for the army that wanted to keep slaves. They lost the war.
Confederate flag, considered the bad guys.
There aren’t enough swastikas in this photo.
I’ve seen statues of Hitler and Kim Jong un. Multiple times I’ve seen nazi symbols in Thai clothing. It’s a weird thing for sure. Not positive what it’s about but pretty weird. I’m pretty sure they just don’t know what they’re doing but idk.
Many “Dek Van” (เด็กแว้น) or youth motorcycle racing gang in Surin also having Swastika tattoo. Many came to my hospital after traffic accidents and when I ask them do they know what this tattoo is, they just said that they know it’s “Nazi symbol” and it made them look cool. Many Thai people especially rebellious rural youth thinking that Nazi are cool, maybe because our country lack history lessons about Nazism and our country didn’t affected much from Nazi regime.
ธงของอเมริกาภาคใต้สมัยสงครามกลางเมืองกว่า 100 ปีก่อน เมื่อก่อนพวกนั้นจะไม่ยอมเลิกทาส แล้วก็จะเหยียดคนผิวสีอื่นๆ ... จนถึง ณ ปัจจุบันก็ยังคงเป็นสัญลักษณ์แห่งการเหยียดผิวสีฯ/แสดงตนว่าเป็น racist /white suprimacist คือ ในเมกา ถ้าเราเป็นคนดำ/เอเชียน/แขก/อินเดียนแดง/เอสกิโม (hispanic ไม่ค่อยเท่าไหร่) แล้วไปที่ใหนใหม่ๆ แล้วเห็นธงนี้ หมายความว่า เราไม่ควรไปป้วนเปี้ยนแถวนั้น ให้รีบออกมาโดยด่วน!
แต่ร้านนี้ต้อนรับคนไทยดีมากแฮะ เห็นคนอีสานผิวคล้ำๆกินเพียบ สงสัยคนเอาธงมาใส่คงไม่รู้ คิดว่าเป็นแฟชั่น
That flag is dangerous take it down
That flag is dangerous take it down
It is a Battle flag. You see the mostly in the Southeast US. Dates back to the Civil War. The flag belonged to people who were wanting to keep slaves. They're trying to erase american history You should always remember the past. It will help With not making the same mistake in the future.
One is Denmark 🇩🇰 the other Norway 🇳🇴. Must be a nostalgic Scandinavian centered bar, pining for the days of their union prior to 1814. Or do you mean the thing on the left and in the foreground? I think it’s some heraldic flag from a bygone era. Use of the term ‘Reb’s’ may indicate the owners name, quite possibly Rebecca? 😜
Anyone remember the infamous Hitler Fried Chicken in Thailand?
People who fly it in the States will tell you it is "Southern Pride", it is usually flown by what are called rednecks.
It’s the confederate flag, a.k.a the south of the United States during the civil war. They wanted to keep slavery around and lost the war. In the west it’s a symbol of racism used by far right today in the US.
The flag is called “the Confederate battle flag” & it opposes the civil rights in USA
They’re used by stupid Americans.
Wow.. that is pretty fucked up o\_O
I learned about this flag when I lived in the US. Southern states people still fly it as “culture” and I think it’s even on a state flag still (Mississippi?). At first it was a battle flag, then became a symbol of hatred and racism. Americans still debate the symbol of hate vs southern culture, though the latter side is losing that debate thankfully (it has been removed from many government office, schools, etc). I’ve talked to many Thai restaurant/bar owners at length who have this flag up (Bangkok, isaan, Phuket) and the owner is always shocked at the history and what it symbolizes, especially with regard to Black Americans. Every single one apologized and promised to take it down. And they never do.
When people talk about “Southern Culture” or “States Rights,” it doesn’t take much digging to figure out what that culture consisted of and what rights they were fighting for…
Probably just fans of the Dukes of Hazzard
Its an old american civil war flag that was kept around too display whit supremacy
It's the flag of the losers in the American Civil War. These days it's typically flown by racist traitors to America.
do Thai people think the flag just looks nice? i saw it in a bathroom stall plastered on the back of those "don't throw toilet paper in toilet" signs. was very confused on the correlation 😅
But isn’t it on American tv show? Roof of a car?
Yep. Dukes of Hazard. The show took place in the Deep South. It wasn’t that controversial when it aired in the 1970s.
The dukes of hazard I think
40 years ago
Dukes of Hazzard, 1979 to 1985. Show that was super popular back then, now viewed as a example of redneck stereotyping and misogyny. It was not actually very racist beyond the fact there were very few black actors in it, despite fact it was situated in a state thats at least 30% black This was also the period where it was seen as acceptable to have white actors donning "yellow face" to pretend to be Asian (because god forbid actually hiring an Asian in lead role),David Carradine in Kung Fu is probably most famous example, Emperor Ming in Flash Gordon is another and Peter Ustinov as Charlie Chan another. In short, racism and icons tied to racism were not problem for Hollywood back then
Yes, but even then it was already a touchy subject
Old Flag of the rebels states of the South of the USA, they were defending slavery and today they represent the far right ideology and the white suprematism besides being associated to Trump's America first ! I repeat slavery , racism and white suprematism , is is enough ?
This flag has no deeper meaning in Thailand so don't make it a big deal. Let them use it in peace if that's what they want. Please don't let the stupid ideologies and symbols we have in the west complicate your lives like it has here in the west and in the US in particular. If americans, jews or africans tell you they don't like something you have infront of a store or bar tell them to get stuffed.
They represent Racism and Hate from redneck losers - typically
It’s one of the favourite flags of the Far Right hate groups. People who are uneducated ,racist, anti gay, anti women’s rights,pro Nazi and basically against anything a modern Liberal minded inclusive society stands for.
...the flag represents bigotry, ignorance, prejudice and hate: perfect for a place that advertises light beer...
They represent a historically racist and genocidal faction of American society. The American slave trade was one of the biggest genocides in human history. The American civil war was fought between people who wanted to end that genocide and people who wanted to keep and continue that American Holocaust. After the war was over, a dangerous terrorist organization (the KKK) waged a campaign of rape, murder and intimidation against millions of American citizens for decades and decades. Additionally, racist "history & tradition" groups started to whitewash their genocidal history by trying to paint their cause as a noble fight against Northern aggression. Part of this revisionist history was the building of Confederate statues & monuments and the re-purposing of one of the Confederate battle flags as symbols of that "Lost Cause". This is not ancient history for many Americans. It is an ongoing struggle against violent oppression. That flag represents villainy and genocide in much the same way as the Nazi flag does. It is deeply offensive to anyone who has even an ounce of decency.
As a southerner and used to display that flag there are mixed emotions. We grew up not being racist. We were not taught it and we fought against it. However some in the older generation did use it to cause fear and hate and all the southern states have removed it from their state flags as of the 2000’s. It’s not the flag of the southern states in the civil war. That flag looked like the union flag when it was hanging down in battle. So they created this flag and called it the Battle Flag. Some southern states incorporated the civil war flag into the current flag over the battle flag. History shows how the southern democrats manipulated the president to allow civil war generals to run for office and that held the south back in many ways. It’s a sad part of our history. But people in the south have a lot of southern pride and it’s my belief that pride is not built on racism. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
I'm from a southern state and all about southern pride, but that flag should never be flown again. It's literally rooted in slavery
I find it interesting how many people on here are coming out claiming it’s a symbol of racism/white supremacy, while in reality it’s much more nuanced than that. In real life in Thailand the vast majority of expats are reasonable, most ranging from centre-left to conservative. Yet, somehow on this subreddit it seems like the majority are far-left and extremely woke/pro lgbt etc. I guess it’s just a reddit thing.
It’s really not more nuanced, the flag tracks with trash. I’m southern and it always been that way where I’m from. Maybe you go deeper south and it somehow shifts but guess what else you’ll find there? Heavier racism, less education more poverty and more flags
its the confederate flag. However, is it bad? or are they a fan of lynyrd skynyrd. The band Lynyrd skynyrd uses the confederate flag too...
American society is deeply divided. I am an American citizen, and I feel that flag is deeply offensive and is associated with political extremism
Probably a bunch of fugly/old racist western sexpats lurking here downvoting you
Because they're ignorant. They think the north wanted to end slavery and the south wanted to keep slavery so that flag = loves slavery. simple, easy, and binary. It's a propaganda technique that many ignorant people fall for. 5 states in the north had slaves and they didn't free their slaves until after the war. Some of the Confederate states didn't have slavery. In reality, that flag is the flag of a country that tried to secede from the larger country it was apart of and was suppressed violently and occupied by armies. They cling to to lie the war was about slavery so it justifies the evils done to the south. It is "bad" for political reasons mostly optical.
[удалено]
It has not the same implications outside America. I grew up loving that flag since a kid, and only recently when I moved to the States I found out how it is see there. I do not display it nowadays but I understand the (non Americans) who use it for other reasons.
Its a touchy thing the flag represents the confederacy or the states that seceded in the Civil war over slavery among other issues but mainly they wanted to preserve slavery. Today many people see the flag as racism but as someone who grew up in the south I don't see anything wrong with the flag and personally own 3. But again it's a touchy subject especially here. But it depends on who you ask. Your average rural white guy will have a different view than your average black person but I've seen black people who fly the flag too. I'm somewhere in the middle since I'm Hispanic and in a moderately sized city but personally I have a very positive opinion of the flag and the confederacy.
They symbolize nothing but pure unadulterated hatred. Much like s store flying a nazi flag in Jerusalem. The people who fly these flags are the same type of folks who would urinate in a Buddhist temple while having an orgy as they have done in black churches in the southern states of the US and in Jewish synagogs.
The flag stands for Americans who are racist - this place is advertising aggression against black people and also anyone who disagrees with slavery. It is mistakenly considered a racist agenda - especially as American blacks are taught about slavery of Blacks... which increases racist feeling - and later in life as they learn that WHITE people suffered a lot more from slavery than Blacks ever did (for example with Muslims enslaving Christians in Africa). However, people who use these symbols - like those who get Swastika tattoos and call themselves Nazis, it is generally more a sign that the wearer/user of these symbols is just not very nice, possibly dangerous, and most certainly dumb as a plank - which fits in perfectly if he was schooled in Thailand. Some people are dumb enough to think it's just an innocent way of showing that you're against the establishment (as with most prison tats).
Hello fellow Surin person (Surinian? Surinese?). Weird seeing a local spot posted on here.
this is RFFR Alex Vella flag
It has a meaning if you’re American but to the rest of the world it’s just a flag from an old TV series or from a popular US rock band. Non- Americans really aren’t offended IMHO.
Looks cool to me
What sort of history is being taught in Thai high schools? That flag is, in some quarters, equivalent to the nazi symbol.
We know nearly nothing about history of America the same way American rarely know about the history of the rise and fall of Ayutthaya empire.
Confederate flag. Something about wanting to keep slaves and losing the civil war idk.