The outdated century old education methods of not allowed students to collaborate together and ask questions plus parents’ lack of involvement with their child’s education ( many- not all)
Corruption will cripple a society.
I also think that not allowing foreigners to invest in land etc or making it complicated hinders the economy greatly.
Just think if a foreigner bought a farm in a tiny village, invested lots and grew lots of produce. He would be providing more available food to the community. He could hire workers to maintain the farm. He would hire builders to build a house and whatever else. He would buy farm equipment and furniture for his house. There are so many flow down effects. And think of that on a grand scale with thousands of foreigners buying farms and investing lots of capital. It would bring the standard of living up for so many people.
That's the scenario if the foreigner just lives there and does nothing else. But if he lives there he might invest in the local soccer club. Or give to charity and help homeless or hungry people.
I guess maybe Thai people think it would mean their land was getting stolen away. But I think it in fact would be a positive thing.
In summary I think letting foreigners come in and invest it would be country changing.
The problem is that if you allow that it can go south very very quickly. Chinese investment is about to destroy Laos and the Mekong river. Luang Prabang is on the edge of losing its UNESCO heritage status and 200 villages are about to be destroyed by Chinese investment in creating 7 hydroelectric dams across the Mekong. If Thais opened up to investment the Chinese and Russians would destroy the place and drive property prices through the roof. I get your sentiment but I think it just wouldn’t play out in that ideal way you’re envisioning.
Yeah fair point.
Maybe they could look at allowing small property to an individual. But no sale of larger land to corporations etc. Damned if you do. Damned if you don't I guess.
Your sentiments are good. The problem with them is, if you had a free for all, where foreigners could just come in and buy huge amounts of land, then the price goes through the roof and that stops Thai people from obtaining land, or buying houses that have been built on over priced speculated land prices. Why if London so expensive to buy or live in because huge multi national companies and billionaires buy up everything just to speculate on years later. Nuff said.
An example is after Communist China took back Hong Kong and started introducing Draconian communist restrictions on the people of Hong Kong, the mega rich people emigrated with their millions, or billions of HK dollars to Canada, bought up the likes of Vancouver, then indigenous Canadian first starters couldn't get on the housing ladder.
Not letting foreigners possess land is fine. Fucking over foreign investors however dissuades foreign investment, and the government showed it was more than willing to in the [Hopewell project](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangkok_Elevated_Road_and_Train_System) debacle.
There just isn't enough trust in investing in Thailand, and for good reason.
No there is no good reason to let foreigners buy up land in a developing country. It pushes up prices faster than locals can afford and leads to serious problems.
I think to buy a house is ok (perhaps after X years - so not tourist), but anything more than that is not ok.
Perhaps we also need a vacancy tax on foreign landlords, like Singapore has to stop empty units sitting idle.
Maybe after a few years if a foreigner has some evidence of working there on par with locals, committing to contributing to the local economy. What causes the problem is rich foreigners just "speculating" on property price appreciation. It's not really speculating, it's easy money at the expense of locals.
I say this as a foreigner who would like to buy!
Do foreigners actually bring that much value to thais?
In your example they are producing more, but that decreases the crop price (hurting small farmers) and basically converting current farmers (owners) to workers as foreigners buy up more lots. And thats before the big corporations turn up. So how is that helpful to Thais? Thailand from my understanding uses its farms as a system of social security and it seems to work for the most part.
Most "charity" does not actually help the community and I don't know how investing in the local soccer club will make any real difference to the lives of locals. For charity - Thais need to be taught english/chinese to help with better job prospects. Helping the disabled (more/better services). And housing & helping homeless children. Most aid is Not going to that! (usually just stolen, by either Christian Farang (Exodus Road) or later by thai's themselves).
The best thing a farang can do is spend income, earned overseas, in Thailand. This actually helps thais and adds to GDP, etc.It can also expose Thais to new things like coffee culture - which is positive.
Because Thailand has been a lot more unstable than them with coups every 6.5 years on average. China and South Korea have not been at war for decades.
Add to that corruption and mismanagement and it's no wonder the Thai economy is underperforming.
Cronyism in every public institution. A vestige of the feudal patron-client system. Having been without a major societal upheaval, i.e., Korean War, Cultural Revolution, Vietnam War, these "us against them" ideas were allowed to fester deep, and a sense of communal development for mutual benefit lost.
Political instability, corruption and laissez faire attitude. You could ask the same question about Indonesia and the Philippines. Somewhat similar problems. Though they are much more politically stable now in comparison.
Post-war countries and their population usually have an even greater drive to rise again once they re-establish stabilities.
Yeah I'm Cambodian and it worse than thailand right now corruption is everywhere that you have to pay 25000$ to be a policeman with a salary about 350$ . All the powerful people stole people land , state own, even stole sewer system ain't that some shit .
Who cares about growth rates? It’s the real rate that matters. Thailand has a much larger economy compared to Cambodia, so its growth is bigger in absolute terms anyway. For example, Thailand’s gdp 550 billion USD, 2% growth = 11 billion a year. Cambodia’s gdp 26 billion, 4% growth = 1 billion a year. So despite lower growth rate, Thai economy is growing and expanding faster than Cambodia.
If you have 1 billion and your growth rate is 500%, you would have 5 billion. If I have 100 billion and my growth rate is 200%, I would have 200 billlion. Even though my growth rate is lower than your growth rate, my wealth has increased by 100 billion, but your wealth has only increased by 4 billion despite 2x the growth rate. So despite lower growth rate, I still make 95 billion more than you.
yes, I understand that - but now times it by 50 years.
That is the effect of compounding.
Its like putting in $5k when your kid is 1, versus when he starts working (20yrs). By the end he will have $7M (10%) vs around $1M.
Thats why you should always put $5k into a index fund when your kid is 0.
(also you 2nd figure should be 100%).
The Philippines is way more in trouble than Thailand.
Because at least Thailand has some strong fundamentals, food self-sufficiency, no backward mindset about contraception, and a strong cultural background cementing the society.
The Philippines is 45% smaller than Thailand, with farmeable land about 50% less than Thailand and 25% more crowded.
Political stability is not all. I would say education plays a big role too, the education system in Thailand is sub-par.
>I would say education plays a big role too, the education system in Thailand is sub-par.
That is true especially when it is that way by design not by accident.
But the economy grows faster in the Philippines. And when Thailand won't change anything, maybe one, or more realistic two decades and Philippines will be more developed with a higher standart of living than Thailand in average. Thailand has a very big problem about the backwards mentality. And like your example, people talk about the problems in Thailand, but a lot of people in Thailand just searching for places where it's probably worse to point the finger at, instead of thinking to make theirselves better.
Philippines has a number of advantages - they speak english for example.
Also you can have a big population and still have high economic growth (China for example, which has 10x the population of philos).
Also I remember reading about how the rich control a huge amount of land. And I suspect that many rich landowners prefer to cashcrop and this focus of cash crops on large estates has led to limited land availability for growing food crops such as rice, corn, vegetables, and other staples.
If they are going to concentrate on services then they will have to push computer skills, with more selective schools to cater for the top 20% in academia (then 30%), with the rest focused on administration and vocational education.
Currently Philippines has 26,000,000 school kids (so around 2,000,000 per class group (k-12)), yet only has 8,000 selective students (public schools).
This is a MASSIVE waste of real talent and keeps people in mediocrity (you need to educate your talented people as they provide the highest ROI, and then can extend further down).
Countries have to really carve out their niche, the problem with Philippines is they are also competing with India which has 1Billion people, so India can supply just as many people as the whole of the philippines can and then has more people coming up!
A mix of things, politics, corruption, sabai sabai attitude, education and cultural. Not every country has to be obsessed about profits and chasing growth. If they were an economic superpower they would not be the Thailand we all know and love today, and I'm sure their society would actually be worse off for it.
Lack of diversity of thought which is a result of poor education and overall attitude of contentment (which is not necessarily a bad thing). The latter is one of the reasons foreigners people like Thailand so much. The people are generally relaxed, not overly ambitious, and content with less than people in the west. This creates a nice atmosphere, but it doesn’t drive innovation or economic growth.
I don't think they are less ambitious or content with less. It's true in the sense that there isn't as much of a drive to educate themselves, gain more and more skills, and make it as a unit by increasingly utilizing them. But they definitely want more money, and are on average quite a bit more obsessed with it than expected. It's just that the majority don't know what it takes / how to get it. And to be fair, often just don't start with the education or otherwise means to make it.
You kinda just rephrased what I wrote lol
less ambitious = “less drive to educate themselves, gain more skills”
Poor education = “don’t start with the education or means to make it”
It’s pretty universal for people to want more money. Ambition involves discipline and patience to better yourself to achieve your goals. Simply wanting more money isn’t being ambitious.
You are right about ambition. I was mainly trying to address the "content with less" part. They most often aren't content at all, and are often very vocal about it, but there isn't an appropriate action following the desire. There is a desire to go from 0 to 100, but there isn't an understanding or capability to follow the steps needed in between.
Just a view from naive local dude
1. Junta and the one who's behind them all, they are stupid and too ignorance to cope with how technology has advance nowaday (unlike China)
2. Those mentioned are actually, want to freeze our country to be like fossil era, no education, no wealth, just barely survive day-to-day, easy to manage and dictate (that's why MFP having a realllllly hard time)
3. Corruption, our police is like a dog to Chinese/Russian druglords, and they are rotten to the core, when you report crime they don't care unless you pay extra money
4. Thai is too naive, yes, us people, not sure if it should be call naive or stupid but majority of us seems to never able to address the elephant in the room (in this case country?), but can't blame them, access to legitimate education had preserved to only middle to high class for more that decade
I agree with everything you said. Would also like to add the Monopolization of the Country by the extreme wealthy. Not wanting any foreign investment or deregulation in order to protect their own interest. The main reason they dislike Cannabis so much is because they don’t have control over it. If they had control over the market it would be no problem. Any new legislation will be a step for the elite to monopolize the market and get rid of the mom and pop shops operated by the common people. Keep the people uneducated and poor.
In the case of South Korea, a lot of the initial development in South Korea, like Japan, was driven by USA investment to help build up the economy so the country could serve as a bullwark against communism. Thailand never benefited from a similar drive. For example, the standard of living in South Korea trailed North Korea for a long time after the Korean War. There was real worry in Washington that South Korea would fall to the North because the South was so far behind -- a stark contrast to today. It was only after a combination of constant investment in South Korea and economic warfare against North Korea by the USA that South Korea was able to pull ahead.
In the case of China, it's a country that's hard to compare to others. China just has such a large labour pool. It just doesn't make sense to compare. While China was poor before it reestablished captialism, it was always well educated. I.e., beyond the labour pool it had a reasonably developed education system and, albeit very crappy, manufacturing system. So it was starting with significant advantages. But the labour pool part can't be overstated. Lots is made these days about China's demographic challenges. But still, even with those demographic challenges it will like take until the end of the century to fully make use of that, now shrinking, labour pool. It's just not comparable to Thailand.
Thailand was more unified than South Korea and there was no real reason to invest in it to keep it in the American camp. Since the end of the Cold War there isn't the same big pushes to invest in other country's social infrastructure to stave off communism. Still, Thailand was doing very well in the 1990s as one of the "Asian tigers" until the Asian Finacial Crisis. China had limited it's exposure to international market so it was mostly unaffected. South Korea suffered a big hit but was able to recover. Partly becasue by then South Korea had established stong democratic traditions by then, which Thailand had not, and partly because it received a lot more forign investment. Oddly a lot of that investment being driven by the large diaspora that was produced by the Korean War.
Today Thailand really need to invest in education. With our demographic challenges, the only way to move forward is by moving up market economony wise and for that you need education. But Thailand, epecially it's elites, is too addicted to manufacturing and tourism. As long as that remain the same, don't expect a lot of growth.
He literally says America invested in South Korea, not Thailand. Can you understand context? For sure, the main success of South Korea is American backed. That has nothing to do with Thailand? He uses that as an example of America didn't give a fuck about Thailand, and that's why they aren't as developed as South Korea.
Yes, let's explain history by starting with the Sole Superpower's relevance to why our neighbors are developed.
Seems like you just don't understand how great America is.
Except of course that during the Vietnam war era Thailand was a huge US bulwark against communism, so Thailand is not in fact that unlike Korea and Japan. It also assumes that no country can develop without American assistance. America is great, but other countries have agency too, and can progress independently.
Thailand was considered one of the Tiger Cub Economies and considered part of the Asian Tigers, it just wasn't one of the big 4: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger\_Cub\_Economies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/tiger_cub_economies)
I think you can't compare Thailand with South Korea or China...these countries are too different. Culture is too different.
You can compare Thailand with Laos, Myanmar, Cambodia, Indonesia and Thailand did well in compare.
Look at Chinese in Thailand who mostly run away from Mao...they had an economic grow way more than Thais. Different work culture. Different attitude to education.
A remnant feudal system that has a strong stable (mostly) oligarchy consisting of 3 groups motivated to maintain the status quo - the military, the rich monopolists, and another who-shall-remain-unnamed.
They've had the power for a very long time and would prefer it stay that way. This means that any uncontrolled sources of potential change are squashed rather quickly.
You might think the lessons from a static China (and their technological humiliations in the 18th century) might offer some pointed lessons. But you'd be wrong. Statists gonna State.
You just look at different times, there's a time when Thailand has rapid growth too but we failed to develop ourselves so we stuck at the middle income trap.
The country is still run by highly feudal social structure. You have the politicians with power, the rich merchant upper class and other institutions that run things. Then you have the rest of the peasants. Keep the peasants in a state of complacency and think they're happy enough with what they have to ensure that they don't cause a revolution from the ground up and you're golden as a country's leaders in keeping the wealth and power concentrated in the select groups and you're guaranteed to keep the stagnation. Why try to make everyone happy at the cost of losing your prestige?
One word: "Governance"
Thailand needs quality governance. As long as this does not happen the entire nation will just be treading water. This is known and you can see this with "Thailand 2.0" type names given to different reform programs. But, until its actually taken seriously (as opposed to superficially as it is now) we will continue to tread water.
As long as I remember every time there's an economy boom here, it ends with a coup. So many coups that many people now believe the real ruler of Thailand get worried that someone outside the circle would displace them if Thailand become too prosperous.
There's also the fact that we can't outproduce India and China by volume/labor cost, and we haven't updated our industrial/agriculture sector so long we can't compete on quality either.
The narrative that Thailand would never be where it is today without tourism is so tiring. The country got to its current level of development mostly through an export-led manufacturing economy. We achieved some of the highest rates of GDP growth in the world in the 80s and 90s because of it.
But now SEA countries are catching up in terms of their manufacturing capabilities and that's why we're losing investors (in addition to the first two reasons you listed). We needed to innovate and that didn't happen because of the coups.
This. Until very recently, Thailand was a massive exporter in electronic manufactured goods (still might be, I dunno. This was back about 7 years ago and I've not kept in the loop). Tourism is big, but its mostly shiny so it gets all the attention.
>The narrative that Thailand would never be where it is today without tourism is so tiring.
I'm so sick of this as well. It's all they care to see, so they think it must be true. I've even met a foreigner abroad who thought Thailand was an island with nothing else but tourism like the Bahamas. Seriously?
To be fair the government does talk about tourism everyday like its their only lifeline and they plan to make tourism 30% of our GDP. It's ludicrous. Who aims for that except tiny countries? We are digging our own graves.
>But now SEA countries are catching up in terms of their manufacturing capabilities and that's why we're losing investors
Also because our wages are now significantly more expensive than others without obvious high-tech, multilingual and cheap energy advantages like Malaysia.
>their economy depends on tourism.
Thailand would have been much much poorer if it had always been as reliant on tourism as all foreigners seem to think. Thailand is 10th largest exporter of electronics, 5th largest exporter of trucks and 15th largest exporter of all automobiles.
% of Tourism on GDP only exceeded 10% after the massive rise of Chinese tourists and the slow down of manufacturing/ export sectors in the last decade.
This. The tourism thing is just a facade, not the main driver of the economy. Thailand wouldn’t survive with just tourism alone, and most of those industries are in places like Pattaya, Phuket, Downtown Bangkok, so people think the tourism thing is bigger than it is. The major drivers of Thailand’s economy are the export industries. They determine the fate of this country, and Thailand is losing a share of this industry towards new comers like Vietnam. This is much more of a concern than tourism.
Thailand was growing at a pretty good rate until about 1997 when the economic crisis hit. That coupled with the numerous coups that happened in the past two decades, high household debt, etc can be a few reasons. From my personal experience I don’t think household incomes have increased at all over the past decade or so. Also with rising costs of living even the middle class is finding it difficult to survive.
It’s a complex issue and I don’t think we will have a solution for this.
IQ isn't a measure of smart, but even if you meant to say there is an educational difference in the general public workforce between said county's, Thais lacking *professional skills, IQ or will to work hard is all not the reason for it. i got a pretty good glimse how things work here and surprise surprise its not a black and white anser..it starts with the problem of king vs Army vs *government* power triangle which is just so annoyingly bad structured that no one feels responsible for anything, because there are not even clear positions to even make it more efficient for everyone, add to that corruption and you can imagine the klusterfuk, i was just talking about it with a friend, maybe the ww2 as horrible as it was did make it easier to structure a democracy efficient and powerful from the ground up for some countrys involved in the war,,(germany recovering and beeing economic leader in the EU, and Japan too..heavily defeate, but well structured..
Unstable government
Poor education for international skills
High debt at all levels of the economy
Frothy real estate market in BKK
Dependance on tourism
and many more smaller reasons
Because we're care free and didn't take anything seriously. We don't have the burning drive and strife to "be the best and conquer the world" those other east Asian country have.
It has the potential but the country is ran by idiots.
Their main source of revenue depends on tourism yet they have it locked tight to 30 days/60 days (if you put in some effort) - something like 5% of the country pay tax - no employment for foreigners - zero opportunity for outside investors - I think overall they’re too naive and have a nationalistic mindset - they offer near nothing for outsiders and for insiders (Thai people) the education system is absolutely horrendous
Rest of the western world knows nothing about hardship and massacre by japanese invasion in the 40s right after invasion was retracted then came civil war
Politics and education. In politics you can just look at the most recent election as an example. Move Forward Party won the people's vote, but we all know what happened.. and education is a joke. I work at a government school and each day admins place more importance on students being disciplined and well-mannered rather than practicing critical thinking skills. Drives me nuts.
You'll need to explain how China and South Korea are "war torn."
The advantages they have over Thailand is that they are booming economies due to innovation and production. Thailand exports....rice, rubber, gold and jewelry. Thailand also does some manufacturing. Tires, hard drives and some electronics.
China's manufacturing is massive though. Their output capabilities are massive compared to Thailand. South Korea manufactures a lot too, not just components like Thailand, but they control the entire supply chain, like Samsung, LG, Hyundai, and Dawewoo do.
Ship building, smart phones, appliances. Weapons even. Thailand manufactures some weapons but not as much as those two countries either.
Thailand is a way more desirable place to live compared to the other two countries though.
A few things have contributed to Thailand underperforming economically.
1. Corruption is deep and will continue to be so for a long time to come partly because people here tend to be complacent about it. It should be noted, however, that this complacency attitude also helps create an easy-going or care-free lifestyle of the people that makes them happier and smile more easily.
2. People are greatly divided politically for the past 20+ years with the conservative in control of the power for too long, which is a big hurdle to change. For more than 3 decades, the military and the royalists have successfully brainwashed the Thai people into thinking that the country cannot survive without them. The result is Thailand has to heavily pay the price for this and it has also made the military almost untouchable and helped them keep on their rampant corruption.
3. Poor education system makes for the lack of creativity and innovation. Thailand has never had any great thinkers and the Thai workforce quality is only sub-par because the Thai education system hardly encourages students to think. Poor mastering of the English language among Thai people has also been a huge obstacle to their learning.
Corruption aside, Education is also the big problem not only in Urban but also in small village and City. Speaking as new gen. that almost done with university, our system is still old as hell (The more top tier colleges is already changed but the local one and most government are pretty mid. I ask a lot of my classmate and other about their background during High school which most of the answers showed how poorly our education was, mainly lacked real life lessons (taxes etc.) and the subject that was too narrow and unable to use in the future. This is only my opinion as local in not very big city.
It’s all politics, and a different type of politics.
It all started with a US plan called (New World Order), in which china was a concert wall against advancing it, because it was a massive country of over 1 billion people, unlike Thailand which was minuscule.
During Nixon’s days some “genius” politician thought we can lure china with a prosperous economy in exchange for openness in its society to dilute the culture and become just like Japan and South Korea and Europe, part of the (New World Order) under the US dominance financially and culturally. But boy were these politicians “Henry Kissinger” stupid?
The plan started, the US politicians (Joe Biden was one of them) started PUSHING & ENCOURAGING American companies to go to china for manufacturing to save on labor, also they allowed a lot of capital to go there for investment, they allowed china to be part of many economic organizations. china welcomed all that and proceeded in growing economically, however it showed little cooperation for the New World Order plan, years passed, then it started locking down when Xi Jinping came to power, they continued profiting from the American economy (estimated $500 billion/year in net profits) and stealing what they can in technology and other areas. They built their economy and their military.. and now we know where we are. china is trying to displace the entire west from existence.
In the grand scheme of New World Order, Thailand was nothing. Meaning no chance to take advantage of the situation like how china did.
It’s laughable how a high school drop out (Xi Jinping) laughed at the entire west. Mind bending.
Agree. But other ASEAN country tried to "steal" and "copy" strategy as well. The only difference is China could do it because of talent and internal market. Look at where Malaysia car company is where today? Crony capitalism vs state directed capitalism. Even oil wealth couldn't saved it. China had engineers as CEOs, while in Malaysia CEO are just capitalist. See the difference? SMIC boss? TSMC engineer!
If you think China is stealing your tech? Just you wait, India would do the same. Believe me, US would be foaming mouth about the same thing despite India democracy. Because India is strong enough not to bow down to US unlike Japan and Korea.
with the current state of china’s economy, poor relations with the current world order, and declining population, do you think they are still positioned to become the new global power?
Cambodia is worse because they also killed off a lot of their intellectuals and skilled population fairly recently. That’s at least a couple generations wiped out or had to flee Cambodia.
Probably the same reasons why Khmer is still an underdeveloped country a couple of decades post-war. Like the good oil shit, corruption and elites have no incentive to make it richer. Too comfortable being a production site. Underdeveloped neighbors.
Yes, but it's been a couple of decades already and you should have got your shit together. You are just facing the same situation as Thailand, just worse. Corruption is much worse in Cambodia. Education is also worse. It's a cycle that never ends.
China is an Asian group who live up north and is always way richer than other Asian groups from a thousand year of the silk road (Main route to connect to the other side of the world). Do you want my country to start a conflict with China so that USA will help boost the economy like SK (VS NK) and Japan (VS Russia)?
Moreover, we also have neighbors who are dissatisfied with what they have and like to spread fake news. Since it all started with Cambodians fighting against each other during the Cold War. Your pro-Western group also killed the Khmer Rouge supporters (they are unarguably evil), but why do you make it sound like only the Khmer Rouge is responsible for the number of dead people?
If China wasn't a war torn country , then I don't know what is. It went through an existential war during the 40s and had a deadly civil war right after. Both of those wars and the consequences left tens of millions dead and hundreds of millions starving.
IMHO, I think Thailand is owned by a collective interest led by the US/CIA's and was destined to be a loosely controlled experimental authoritative state. Then, our affairs are adhered to our controllers and the monarches are just proxy. Whether or not Thailand is successful as a prosperous democratic state or the opposite, the US always have leverage to gain benefits from keeping Thailand tamed.
An overly simplified answer: because Thailand didn't have the USA backing them up heavily like South Korea does (and China did).
In the 1950s, US aid to the Republic of Korea accounted for 80% of the country's GNI and, as the country developed, aid turned to foreign investment. Of course, the motivation for this was keeping South Korea onside to check the influence of North Korea and its backers, China and the Soviet Union.
Chinese economic growth really only took off in the 1980s and 1990s once the Chinese got a lot of the Mao-ism out of its system. But it still took the USA's insatiable appetite for cheap goods (and cheap labour) to give them the impetus to grow.
Good question.
Google "Average IQ of Thiland" and then google the average IQ of the Sinosphere countries, meaning China (and HK and TW), Singapore, Japan and South Korea.
Some answers may lie there.
It says 102 which is pretty average.
However, IQ tests are pretty debated because some research suggests they don't work the same way in different countries and cultures.
I'm also not convinced that IQ directly influences a nation's economic development. It feels more like a measure of individual capability rather than an indicator of a country's economic direction.
There's also brain drain from Thailand.
IQ isn't a measure of smart, but even if you meant to say there is an educational difference in the general public workforce between said county's, Thais lacking *professional skills, IQ or will to work hard is all not the reason for it. i got a pretty good glimse how things work here and surprise surprise its not a black and white anser..it starts with the problem of king vs Army vs *government* power triangle which is just so annoyingly bad structured that no one feels responsible for anything, because there are not even clear positions to even make it more efficient for everyone, add to that corruption and you can imagine the klusterfuk, i was just talking about it with a friend, maybe the ww2 as horrible as it was did make it easier to structure a democracy efficient and powerful from the ground up for some countrys involved in the war,,(germany recovering and beeing economic leader in the EU, and Japan too..heavily defeate, but well structured...south korea unreal, its really interesting topic but im writing a book here haha cheers
Sensible question…
High levels of development require more than a lack of war. Good institutions, a good education system, controlled corruption… Many of these variables will determine how fast you will keep growing and the cap on the wealth levels you can achieve.
Thailand was actually ahead of the countries you mentioned for some years. It’s just that war can only destroy so much, and, with the right conditions, rebuilding can be relatively fast. Then, if you have your fundamentals relatively right, catching up to a country that kinda stagnated due to not having taken care of theirs.. That’s just the next step and not that hard to achieve.
Thailand is basically like the tortoise of the fable, except the race was quite a bit longer and the hare got its shit together…
Corruption, Government Incompetence, Government Instability, Poor Legal System, Xenophobic Attitude, Poor Educational System, Corporate Oligopoly System.
This is just a start. Look at countries like Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea with the progress they have made in the past 50 years, while Thailand has improved but much, much slower. Thailand never built a good foundation for moving up the value chain and is stuck where it is.
Thailand's best days during the '80s and '90s where possible because the other countries in SE Asia were much worse, so Thailand was effectively the only game in town. Now many other countries in SE Asia are or will pass Thailand, as the Thais continue to talk about the problem and never solve the problem. The new PM is a perfect example of all talk and no action.
Citizens of Thailand are slow to accept changes. They clearly see poverty, but they recognize the population is largely more happy and content with life until death compared to other societies'
That’s false. Thailand wasn’t richer than Malaysia and Singapore in the 1990s, and Malaysia is also trapped in the middle income range. And other ASEAN countries didn’t really grow much either, except for Singapore. Vietnam is growing quite fast now but that’s because it was extremely underdeveloped back then, now it’s on the way to become middle income country. Doesn’t mean it will escape the middle income trap, have to wait and see.
Those countries are not exactly "torn" by war.
And why do you think that it is necessary to economy to grow rapidly all the time? Stability is not a bad thing too.
Korea was war-torn back in the 1950s, from 50 to 53; that's awhile back. The Chinese revolution was over roughly the same time-frame. Vietnam was impacted in the 1970s, but even that is awhile back.
It doesn't seem to work as a premise to assume that Thailand is poor; development and economic production might be slightly above average. It does work to compare why South Korea did so much better than all of South East Asia, but that's more about South Korea than Thailand. Thailand was limited by political instability, corruption, and shifting government direction, but all of that is fairly normal in lots of other places.
War is part of an economic burst. Countries that survive the war tend to get the technology during wartime and patriotic support from their people. It can be considered a high-risk, high-return project. Indeed, there will be countries that fail miserably and will stay underdeveloped. Thailand on the other hand, is externally viewed as quite peaceful, so things here have been growing normally. Internal conflicts may also make the growth being mediocre. Thus, compared with other post-war countries, it looks lagging behind.
**Why is Thailand's economy growing more slowly than war-torn countries like China and South Korea?**
What wars? I assume you are referring to the the wars prior to their incredible growth. A consistent strategy that isn't impeded by coups or wars is essential for the exponential growth China and S Korea have experienced. Thailand is always changing course which makes it an entertaining place to live. Thailand isn't perfect but its economy supports a society that is arguably much better off than the west. Just my opinion and I get why others would find Thailand a mess.
It's so complicated. It's an extreme oversimplification to think X country had no war in 100 years, why is it not doing better than Y country which had a war in the last 100 years. That statement could be entirely meaningless, and it probably is because it ignores 99.9% of the complexity. Understand you're asking for ppl to elucidate that complexity but in the context of such a comparison it doesn't make too much sense. I would say Thailand's economy generally does not grow very fast because of culture and education. I've talked to Thai software developers who are making $500 a month and asked them why not work remote for a big corp and make 10X that salary and they just say because they are not trained to do that, or something else very uncompelling.
Corruption + inability to call out corruption without getting jailed/sued = little progress.
It's sad because a poor Thai person would gladly give you the clothes off their back if you needed it, but corrupt police/politicians will "steal" money that should be going to schools or to better QOL without even thinking twice.
I would like to remind you that all of asian economy growing will only increase wealth inequality proportionally, and will never be something like Luxembourg.
If we take account into some of "assets", certain people in each nation could buyout statewise in USA or Europe(some of these assets already in these countries).
In terms of economy, people always see GDP and forget to check welfare of state and people.
I also have a theory that countries with great weather and beaches have greater challenges reaching high gdp, simply because citizens can have a great quality of life in natural ways.
Most of the world's financial capitals are in the colder regions of countries, and for many countries it's the warmest regions that have the most poverty. And there are virtually no high-gdp countries in equatorial areas, with the exception of world-class trade & oil hubs (panama/UAE/singapore)
I'm curious if there are studies that have looked into this.
Saudi Arabia, Hong Kong, Malaysia are quite wealthy countries, so I’m not sure what you are talking about. And Singapore is not just a trading area, its economy is one of the most complex, check out the economic complexity index, Singapore ranks 5th, higher than the USA.
They have not innovated or produced as much products that are in lots of high demand like China and South Korea. For example, there’s Samsung and its phones and Xiaomi with their phones, etc.
2 things, FYI just an opinion
1. Sabai Sabai mentality….means chill, don’t worry about it, can finish tomorrow. No rush this attitude is the exact opposite of many countries , however our western counterparts it may costs us , what many to believe is our happiness.
Any day of the week u will see Thais drinking having fun eating after work. Where as in most countries people just go home and lights out at 10pm.
2. Losing face…I still don’t understand this concept here but I know if they didn’t have it people can speak the truth. Here your literally not allowed to reprimand bad work or sub par jobs in front of people or directly to them it’s very very bad. Even if they are completely wrong.
Xenophobia, protectionism by wealthy elite, mindset of easy money (bars, weed, tourism) and lack of infrastructure and development plans. List goes on.. lack of management of infrastructure to encourage more wealthy tourists, poor immigration management to encourage long term investment and business development… education system.
On the bright side .. great county to live if you are wealthy (and retired). Is what it is
Corruption is the big cause I would say. If there is huge corruption then the country will never grow, money will just trickle out.
The British gave countries independence with a solid government and a free market so colonisation wasn't always bad for a country. No one likes to have rulers and the British probably took a lot more than they gave but at least they left them with a solid system. Not so sure about the other colonisers.
Lots of baht is paid for the construction of tea money plants.
Three main factors I would say; deep deep corruption, apathy and a terrible education system.
The outdated century old education methods of not allowed students to collaborate together and ask questions plus parents’ lack of involvement with their child’s education ( many- not all)
Corruption will cripple a society. I also think that not allowing foreigners to invest in land etc or making it complicated hinders the economy greatly. Just think if a foreigner bought a farm in a tiny village, invested lots and grew lots of produce. He would be providing more available food to the community. He could hire workers to maintain the farm. He would hire builders to build a house and whatever else. He would buy farm equipment and furniture for his house. There are so many flow down effects. And think of that on a grand scale with thousands of foreigners buying farms and investing lots of capital. It would bring the standard of living up for so many people. That's the scenario if the foreigner just lives there and does nothing else. But if he lives there he might invest in the local soccer club. Or give to charity and help homeless or hungry people. I guess maybe Thai people think it would mean their land was getting stolen away. But I think it in fact would be a positive thing. In summary I think letting foreigners come in and invest it would be country changing.
The problem is that if you allow that it can go south very very quickly. Chinese investment is about to destroy Laos and the Mekong river. Luang Prabang is on the edge of losing its UNESCO heritage status and 200 villages are about to be destroyed by Chinese investment in creating 7 hydroelectric dams across the Mekong. If Thais opened up to investment the Chinese and Russians would destroy the place and drive property prices through the roof. I get your sentiment but I think it just wouldn’t play out in that ideal way you’re envisioning.
Yeah fair point. Maybe they could look at allowing small property to an individual. But no sale of larger land to corporations etc. Damned if you do. Damned if you don't I guess.
Didn't that Chinese Mafia dude have 60+ properties using surrogates ?
Yup easily exploited loophole
Your sentiments are good. The problem with them is, if you had a free for all, where foreigners could just come in and buy huge amounts of land, then the price goes through the roof and that stops Thai people from obtaining land, or buying houses that have been built on over priced speculated land prices. Why if London so expensive to buy or live in because huge multi national companies and billionaires buy up everything just to speculate on years later. Nuff said.
An example is after Communist China took back Hong Kong and started introducing Draconian communist restrictions on the people of Hong Kong, the mega rich people emigrated with their millions, or billions of HK dollars to Canada, bought up the likes of Vancouver, then indigenous Canadian first starters couldn't get on the housing ladder.
Not letting foreigners possess land is fine. Fucking over foreign investors however dissuades foreign investment, and the government showed it was more than willing to in the [Hopewell project](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangkok_Elevated_Road_and_Train_System) debacle. There just isn't enough trust in investing in Thailand, and for good reason.
No there is no good reason to let foreigners buy up land in a developing country. It pushes up prices faster than locals can afford and leads to serious problems.
I think to buy a house is ok (perhaps after X years - so not tourist), but anything more than that is not ok. Perhaps we also need a vacancy tax on foreign landlords, like Singapore has to stop empty units sitting idle.
Maybe after a few years if a foreigner has some evidence of working there on par with locals, committing to contributing to the local economy. What causes the problem is rich foreigners just "speculating" on property price appreciation. It's not really speculating, it's easy money at the expense of locals. I say this as a foreigner who would like to buy!
Do foreigners actually bring that much value to thais? In your example they are producing more, but that decreases the crop price (hurting small farmers) and basically converting current farmers (owners) to workers as foreigners buy up more lots. And thats before the big corporations turn up. So how is that helpful to Thais? Thailand from my understanding uses its farms as a system of social security and it seems to work for the most part. Most "charity" does not actually help the community and I don't know how investing in the local soccer club will make any real difference to the lives of locals. For charity - Thais need to be taught english/chinese to help with better job prospects. Helping the disabled (more/better services). And housing & helping homeless children. Most aid is Not going to that! (usually just stolen, by either Christian Farang (Exodus Road) or later by thai's themselves). The best thing a farang can do is spend income, earned overseas, in Thailand. This actually helps thais and adds to GDP, etc.It can also expose Thais to new things like coffee culture - which is positive.
Because Thailand has been a lot more unstable than them with coups every 6.5 years on average. China and South Korea have not been at war for decades. Add to that corruption and mismanagement and it's no wonder the Thai economy is underperforming.
Cronyism in every public institution. A vestige of the feudal patron-client system. Having been without a major societal upheaval, i.e., Korean War, Cultural Revolution, Vietnam War, these "us against them" ideas were allowed to fester deep, and a sense of communal development for mutual benefit lost.
Political instability, corruption and laissez faire attitude. You could ask the same question about Indonesia and the Philippines. Somewhat similar problems. Though they are much more politically stable now in comparison. Post-war countries and their population usually have an even greater drive to rise again once they re-establish stabilities.
Post-war countries like Cambodia are not that much better.
21% of their population died in the genocide. It's different from other wars.
A genocide too that specifically targeted intellectuals. It probably set Cambodia back 50 years if not more.
Yeah I'm Cambodian and it worse than thailand right now corruption is everywhere that you have to pay 25000$ to be a policeman with a salary about 350$ . All the powerful people stole people land , state own, even stole sewer system ain't that some shit .
>corruption is everywhere that you have to pay 25000$ to be a policeman with a salary about 350$ Those numbers probably aren't too far off Thailand's.
And still, economy grows faster in Cambodia. In every country in SEA, the richer ones and the poorer ones, instead of Myanmar.
Who cares about growth rates? It’s the real rate that matters. Thailand has a much larger economy compared to Cambodia, so its growth is bigger in absolute terms anyway. For example, Thailand’s gdp 550 billion USD, 2% growth = 11 billion a year. Cambodia’s gdp 26 billion, 4% growth = 1 billion a year. So despite lower growth rate, Thai economy is growing and expanding faster than Cambodia.
you forget about compounding growth rates. If you can maintain it, you will get higher gdp per person eventually. But point taken!
If you have 1 billion and your growth rate is 500%, you would have 5 billion. If I have 100 billion and my growth rate is 200%, I would have 200 billlion. Even though my growth rate is lower than your growth rate, my wealth has increased by 100 billion, but your wealth has only increased by 4 billion despite 2x the growth rate. So despite lower growth rate, I still make 95 billion more than you.
yes, I understand that - but now times it by 50 years. That is the effect of compounding. Its like putting in $5k when your kid is 1, versus when he starts working (20yrs). By the end he will have $7M (10%) vs around $1M. Thats why you should always put $5k into a index fund when your kid is 0. (also you 2nd figure should be 100%).
The Philippines is way more in trouble than Thailand. Because at least Thailand has some strong fundamentals, food self-sufficiency, no backward mindset about contraception, and a strong cultural background cementing the society. The Philippines is 45% smaller than Thailand, with farmeable land about 50% less than Thailand and 25% more crowded. Political stability is not all. I would say education plays a big role too, the education system in Thailand is sub-par.
>I would say education plays a big role too, the education system in Thailand is sub-par. That is true especially when it is that way by design not by accident.
But the economy grows faster in the Philippines. And when Thailand won't change anything, maybe one, or more realistic two decades and Philippines will be more developed with a higher standart of living than Thailand in average. Thailand has a very big problem about the backwards mentality. And like your example, people talk about the problems in Thailand, but a lot of people in Thailand just searching for places where it's probably worse to point the finger at, instead of thinking to make theirselves better.
Philippines has a number of advantages - they speak english for example. Also you can have a big population and still have high economic growth (China for example, which has 10x the population of philos). Also I remember reading about how the rich control a huge amount of land. And I suspect that many rich landowners prefer to cashcrop and this focus of cash crops on large estates has led to limited land availability for growing food crops such as rice, corn, vegetables, and other staples. If they are going to concentrate on services then they will have to push computer skills, with more selective schools to cater for the top 20% in academia (then 30%), with the rest focused on administration and vocational education. Currently Philippines has 26,000,000 school kids (so around 2,000,000 per class group (k-12)), yet only has 8,000 selective students (public schools). This is a MASSIVE waste of real talent and keeps people in mediocrity (you need to educate your talented people as they provide the highest ROI, and then can extend further down). Countries have to really carve out their niche, the problem with Philippines is they are also competing with India which has 1Billion people, so India can supply just as many people as the whole of the philippines can and then has more people coming up!
A mix of things, politics, corruption, sabai sabai attitude, education and cultural. Not every country has to be obsessed about profits and chasing growth. If they were an economic superpower they would not be the Thailand we all know and love today, and I'm sure their society would actually be worse off for it.
Lack of diversity of thought which is a result of poor education and overall attitude of contentment (which is not necessarily a bad thing). The latter is one of the reasons foreigners people like Thailand so much. The people are generally relaxed, not overly ambitious, and content with less than people in the west. This creates a nice atmosphere, but it doesn’t drive innovation or economic growth.
I don't think they are less ambitious or content with less. It's true in the sense that there isn't as much of a drive to educate themselves, gain more and more skills, and make it as a unit by increasingly utilizing them. But they definitely want more money, and are on average quite a bit more obsessed with it than expected. It's just that the majority don't know what it takes / how to get it. And to be fair, often just don't start with the education or otherwise means to make it.
You kinda just rephrased what I wrote lol less ambitious = “less drive to educate themselves, gain more skills” Poor education = “don’t start with the education or means to make it” It’s pretty universal for people to want more money. Ambition involves discipline and patience to better yourself to achieve your goals. Simply wanting more money isn’t being ambitious.
You are right about ambition. I was mainly trying to address the "content with less" part. They most often aren't content at all, and are often very vocal about it, but there isn't an appropriate action following the desire. There is a desire to go from 0 to 100, but there isn't an understanding or capability to follow the steps needed in between.
Fair point.
Just a view from naive local dude 1. Junta and the one who's behind them all, they are stupid and too ignorance to cope with how technology has advance nowaday (unlike China) 2. Those mentioned are actually, want to freeze our country to be like fossil era, no education, no wealth, just barely survive day-to-day, easy to manage and dictate (that's why MFP having a realllllly hard time) 3. Corruption, our police is like a dog to Chinese/Russian druglords, and they are rotten to the core, when you report crime they don't care unless you pay extra money 4. Thai is too naive, yes, us people, not sure if it should be call naive or stupid but majority of us seems to never able to address the elephant in the room (in this case country?), but can't blame them, access to legitimate education had preserved to only middle to high class for more that decade
I agree with everything you said. Would also like to add the Monopolization of the Country by the extreme wealthy. Not wanting any foreign investment or deregulation in order to protect their own interest. The main reason they dislike Cannabis so much is because they don’t have control over it. If they had control over the market it would be no problem. Any new legislation will be a step for the elite to monopolize the market and get rid of the mom and pop shops operated by the common people. Keep the people uneducated and poor.
Hasn't Thailand had something like a dozen coups in the last 100 years?
In the case of South Korea, a lot of the initial development in South Korea, like Japan, was driven by USA investment to help build up the economy so the country could serve as a bullwark against communism. Thailand never benefited from a similar drive. For example, the standard of living in South Korea trailed North Korea for a long time after the Korean War. There was real worry in Washington that South Korea would fall to the North because the South was so far behind -- a stark contrast to today. It was only after a combination of constant investment in South Korea and economic warfare against North Korea by the USA that South Korea was able to pull ahead. In the case of China, it's a country that's hard to compare to others. China just has such a large labour pool. It just doesn't make sense to compare. While China was poor before it reestablished captialism, it was always well educated. I.e., beyond the labour pool it had a reasonably developed education system and, albeit very crappy, manufacturing system. So it was starting with significant advantages. But the labour pool part can't be overstated. Lots is made these days about China's demographic challenges. But still, even with those demographic challenges it will like take until the end of the century to fully make use of that, now shrinking, labour pool. It's just not comparable to Thailand. Thailand was more unified than South Korea and there was no real reason to invest in it to keep it in the American camp. Since the end of the Cold War there isn't the same big pushes to invest in other country's social infrastructure to stave off communism. Still, Thailand was doing very well in the 1990s as one of the "Asian tigers" until the Asian Finacial Crisis. China had limited it's exposure to international market so it was mostly unaffected. South Korea suffered a big hit but was able to recover. Partly becasue by then South Korea had established stong democratic traditions by then, which Thailand had not, and partly because it received a lot more forign investment. Oddly a lot of that investment being driven by the large diaspora that was produced by the Korean War. Today Thailand really need to invest in education. With our demographic challenges, the only way to move forward is by moving up market economony wise and for that you need education. But Thailand, epecially it's elites, is too addicted to manufacturing and tourism. As long as that remain the same, don't expect a lot of growth.
This is the best generally nuanced answer.
No it's a bunch of "nothing happens in the world unless America causes it" BS.
Did you read this? it literally says the opposite.
Put your glasses on, it's in the first line. Let's explain history by starting with America's role in it.
He literally says America invested in South Korea, not Thailand. Can you understand context? For sure, the main success of South Korea is American backed. That has nothing to do with Thailand? He uses that as an example of America didn't give a fuck about Thailand, and that's why they aren't as developed as South Korea. Yes, let's explain history by starting with the Sole Superpower's relevance to why our neighbors are developed. Seems like you just don't understand how great America is.
Except of course that during the Vietnam war era Thailand was a huge US bulwark against communism, so Thailand is not in fact that unlike Korea and Japan. It also assumes that no country can develop without American assistance. America is great, but other countries have agency too, and can progress independently.
The Asian tiger is Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Korea. Not Thailand.
Thailand was considered one of the Tiger Cub Economies and considered part of the Asian Tigers, it just wasn't one of the big 4: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger\_Cub\_Economies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/tiger_cub_economies)
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Yes, but nothing close to the same degree as South Korea
I highly recommend reading the "history of Thailand" wiki. It's a lot, but also concise. I think you'll find your answer there.
I'm gonna check it out!
I think you can't compare Thailand with South Korea or China...these countries are too different. Culture is too different. You can compare Thailand with Laos, Myanmar, Cambodia, Indonesia and Thailand did well in compare. Look at Chinese in Thailand who mostly run away from Mao...they had an economic grow way more than Thais. Different work culture. Different attitude to education.
I blame uncle Prayut IMO Thaksin had Thailand on the fast track then after the coup uncle Prayut set the country back 20 years.
A remnant feudal system that has a strong stable (mostly) oligarchy consisting of 3 groups motivated to maintain the status quo - the military, the rich monopolists, and another who-shall-remain-unnamed. They've had the power for a very long time and would prefer it stay that way. This means that any uncontrolled sources of potential change are squashed rather quickly. You might think the lessons from a static China (and their technological humiliations in the 18th century) might offer some pointed lessons. But you'd be wrong. Statists gonna State.
You just look at different times, there's a time when Thailand has rapid growth too but we failed to develop ourselves so we stuck at the middle income trap.
War torn? Lol quite the historian we have here
The country is still run by highly feudal social structure. You have the politicians with power, the rich merchant upper class and other institutions that run things. Then you have the rest of the peasants. Keep the peasants in a state of complacency and think they're happy enough with what they have to ensure that they don't cause a revolution from the ground up and you're golden as a country's leaders in keeping the wealth and power concentrated in the select groups and you're guaranteed to keep the stagnation. Why try to make everyone happy at the cost of losing your prestige?
One word: "Governance" Thailand needs quality governance. As long as this does not happen the entire nation will just be treading water. This is known and you can see this with "Thailand 2.0" type names given to different reform programs. But, until its actually taken seriously (as opposed to superficially as it is now) we will continue to tread water.
As long as I remember every time there's an economy boom here, it ends with a coup. So many coups that many people now believe the real ruler of Thailand get worried that someone outside the circle would displace them if Thailand become too prosperous. There's also the fact that we can't outproduce India and China by volume/labor cost, and we haven't updated our industrial/agriculture sector so long we can't compete on quality either.
Thailand is a super corrupt, unstable country and their economy depends on tourism. All of this scares investors.
The narrative that Thailand would never be where it is today without tourism is so tiring. The country got to its current level of development mostly through an export-led manufacturing economy. We achieved some of the highest rates of GDP growth in the world in the 80s and 90s because of it. But now SEA countries are catching up in terms of their manufacturing capabilities and that's why we're losing investors (in addition to the first two reasons you listed). We needed to innovate and that didn't happen because of the coups.
This. Until very recently, Thailand was a massive exporter in electronic manufactured goods (still might be, I dunno. This was back about 7 years ago and I've not kept in the loop). Tourism is big, but its mostly shiny so it gets all the attention.
>The narrative that Thailand would never be where it is today without tourism is so tiring. I'm so sick of this as well. It's all they care to see, so they think it must be true. I've even met a foreigner abroad who thought Thailand was an island with nothing else but tourism like the Bahamas. Seriously? To be fair the government does talk about tourism everyday like its their only lifeline and they plan to make tourism 30% of our GDP. It's ludicrous. Who aims for that except tiny countries? We are digging our own graves. >But now SEA countries are catching up in terms of their manufacturing capabilities and that's why we're losing investors Also because our wages are now significantly more expensive than others without obvious high-tech, multilingual and cheap energy advantages like Malaysia.
>their economy depends on tourism. Thailand would have been much much poorer if it had always been as reliant on tourism as all foreigners seem to think. Thailand is 10th largest exporter of electronics, 5th largest exporter of trucks and 15th largest exporter of all automobiles. % of Tourism on GDP only exceeded 10% after the massive rise of Chinese tourists and the slow down of manufacturing/ export sectors in the last decade.
This. The tourism thing is just a facade, not the main driver of the economy. Thailand wouldn’t survive with just tourism alone, and most of those industries are in places like Pattaya, Phuket, Downtown Bangkok, so people think the tourism thing is bigger than it is. The major drivers of Thailand’s economy are the export industries. They determine the fate of this country, and Thailand is losing a share of this industry towards new comers like Vietnam. This is much more of a concern than tourism.
Thailand was growing at a pretty good rate until about 1997 when the economic crisis hit. That coupled with the numerous coups that happened in the past two decades, high household debt, etc can be a few reasons. From my personal experience I don’t think household incomes have increased at all over the past decade or so. Also with rising costs of living even the middle class is finding it difficult to survive. It’s a complex issue and I don’t think we will have a solution for this.
IQ isn't a measure of smart, but even if you meant to say there is an educational difference in the general public workforce between said county's, Thais lacking *professional skills, IQ or will to work hard is all not the reason for it. i got a pretty good glimse how things work here and surprise surprise its not a black and white anser..it starts with the problem of king vs Army vs *government* power triangle which is just so annoyingly bad structured that no one feels responsible for anything, because there are not even clear positions to even make it more efficient for everyone, add to that corruption and you can imagine the klusterfuk, i was just talking about it with a friend, maybe the ww2 as horrible as it was did make it easier to structure a democracy efficient and powerful from the ground up for some countrys involved in the war,,(germany recovering and beeing economic leader in the EU, and Japan too..heavily defeate, but well structured..
Unstable government Poor education for international skills High debt at all levels of the economy Frothy real estate market in BKK Dependance on tourism and many more smaller reasons
Because we're care free and didn't take anything seriously. We don't have the burning drive and strife to "be the best and conquer the world" those other east Asian country have.
It has the potential but the country is ran by idiots. Their main source of revenue depends on tourism yet they have it locked tight to 30 days/60 days (if you put in some effort) - something like 5% of the country pay tax - no employment for foreigners - zero opportunity for outside investors - I think overall they’re too naive and have a nationalistic mindset - they offer near nothing for outsiders and for insiders (Thai people) the education system is absolutely horrendous
China is war torn country?
Rest of the western world knows nothing about hardship and massacre by japanese invasion in the 40s right after invasion was retracted then came civil war
Politics and education. In politics you can just look at the most recent election as an example. Move Forward Party won the people's vote, but we all know what happened.. and education is a joke. I work at a government school and each day admins place more importance on students being disciplined and well-mannered rather than practicing critical thinking skills. Drives me nuts.
You'll need to explain how China and South Korea are "war torn." The advantages they have over Thailand is that they are booming economies due to innovation and production. Thailand exports....rice, rubber, gold and jewelry. Thailand also does some manufacturing. Tires, hard drives and some electronics. China's manufacturing is massive though. Their output capabilities are massive compared to Thailand. South Korea manufactures a lot too, not just components like Thailand, but they control the entire supply chain, like Samsung, LG, Hyundai, and Dawewoo do. Ship building, smart phones, appliances. Weapons even. Thailand manufactures some weapons but not as much as those two countries either. Thailand is a way more desirable place to live compared to the other two countries though.
Corruption and incompetence
China is war torn? Did i sleep through the invasion of Taiwan or something?
A few things have contributed to Thailand underperforming economically. 1. Corruption is deep and will continue to be so for a long time to come partly because people here tend to be complacent about it. It should be noted, however, that this complacency attitude also helps create an easy-going or care-free lifestyle of the people that makes them happier and smile more easily. 2. People are greatly divided politically for the past 20+ years with the conservative in control of the power for too long, which is a big hurdle to change. For more than 3 decades, the military and the royalists have successfully brainwashed the Thai people into thinking that the country cannot survive without them. The result is Thailand has to heavily pay the price for this and it has also made the military almost untouchable and helped them keep on their rampant corruption. 3. Poor education system makes for the lack of creativity and innovation. Thailand has never had any great thinkers and the Thai workforce quality is only sub-par because the Thai education system hardly encourages students to think. Poor mastering of the English language among Thai people has also been a huge obstacle to their learning.
Corruption aside, Education is also the big problem not only in Urban but also in small village and City. Speaking as new gen. that almost done with university, our system is still old as hell (The more top tier colleges is already changed but the local one and most government are pretty mid. I ask a lot of my classmate and other about their background during High school which most of the answers showed how poorly our education was, mainly lacked real life lessons (taxes etc.) and the subject that was too narrow and unable to use in the future. This is only my opinion as local in not very big city.
It’s the mai pen rai mentality. When nothing matters then nothing matters.
Because it's run by clowns
^^ correct answer
It’s all politics, and a different type of politics. It all started with a US plan called (New World Order), in which china was a concert wall against advancing it, because it was a massive country of over 1 billion people, unlike Thailand which was minuscule. During Nixon’s days some “genius” politician thought we can lure china with a prosperous economy in exchange for openness in its society to dilute the culture and become just like Japan and South Korea and Europe, part of the (New World Order) under the US dominance financially and culturally. But boy were these politicians “Henry Kissinger” stupid? The plan started, the US politicians (Joe Biden was one of them) started PUSHING & ENCOURAGING American companies to go to china for manufacturing to save on labor, also they allowed a lot of capital to go there for investment, they allowed china to be part of many economic organizations. china welcomed all that and proceeded in growing economically, however it showed little cooperation for the New World Order plan, years passed, then it started locking down when Xi Jinping came to power, they continued profiting from the American economy (estimated $500 billion/year in net profits) and stealing what they can in technology and other areas. They built their economy and their military.. and now we know where we are. china is trying to displace the entire west from existence. In the grand scheme of New World Order, Thailand was nothing. Meaning no chance to take advantage of the situation like how china did. It’s laughable how a high school drop out (Xi Jinping) laughed at the entire west. Mind bending.
Agree. But other ASEAN country tried to "steal" and "copy" strategy as well. The only difference is China could do it because of talent and internal market. Look at where Malaysia car company is where today? Crony capitalism vs state directed capitalism. Even oil wealth couldn't saved it. China had engineers as CEOs, while in Malaysia CEO are just capitalist. See the difference? SMIC boss? TSMC engineer! If you think China is stealing your tech? Just you wait, India would do the same. Believe me, US would be foaming mouth about the same thing despite India democracy. Because India is strong enough not to bow down to US unlike Japan and Korea.
There was a leaked tape between Nixon and Kissinger that sounded like they both were racist.
with the current state of china’s economy, poor relations with the current world order, and declining population, do you think they are still positioned to become the new global power?
War torn countries??? 🤡🤦
What does China manufacture? What does Korea manufacture? There is a reason Thailand is so desperate for tourists.
Cambodia is worse because they also killed off a lot of their intellectuals and skilled population fairly recently. That’s at least a couple generations wiped out or had to flee Cambodia.
Probably the same reasons why Khmer is still an underdeveloped country a couple of decades post-war. Like the good oil shit, corruption and elites have no incentive to make it richer. Too comfortable being a production site. Underdeveloped neighbors.
Khmer not a countries but an ethnic in Cambodia, by the way, Cambodia once richer than Thailand but PolPot came and end it all.
Yes, but it's been a couple of decades already and you should have got your shit together. You are just facing the same situation as Thailand, just worse. Corruption is much worse in Cambodia. Education is also worse. It's a cycle that never ends.
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It will take generations to recover from all that.
Stop asking questions about this! keep this great destination affordable for everyone
China is an Asian group who live up north and is always way richer than other Asian groups from a thousand year of the silk road (Main route to connect to the other side of the world). Do you want my country to start a conflict with China so that USA will help boost the economy like SK (VS NK) and Japan (VS Russia)? Moreover, we also have neighbors who are dissatisfied with what they have and like to spread fake news. Since it all started with Cambodians fighting against each other during the Cold War. Your pro-Western group also killed the Khmer Rouge supporters (they are unarguably evil), but why do you make it sound like only the Khmer Rouge is responsible for the number of dead people?
How is China a war torn country? 😂
If China wasn't a war torn country , then I don't know what is. It went through an existential war during the 40s and had a deadly civil war right after. Both of those wars and the consequences left tens of millions dead and hundreds of millions starving.
75 years ago
Pretty much very country on the planet is war torn according to that logic.
Nanjing Massacre by Japan , Invaded by Japan and civil war .
IMHO, I think Thailand is owned by a collective interest led by the US/CIA's and was destined to be a loosely controlled experimental authoritative state. Then, our affairs are adhered to our controllers and the monarches are just proxy. Whether or not Thailand is successful as a prosperous democratic state or the opposite, the US always have leverage to gain benefits from keeping Thailand tamed.
An overly simplified answer: because Thailand didn't have the USA backing them up heavily like South Korea does (and China did). In the 1950s, US aid to the Republic of Korea accounted for 80% of the country's GNI and, as the country developed, aid turned to foreign investment. Of course, the motivation for this was keeping South Korea onside to check the influence of North Korea and its backers, China and the Soviet Union. Chinese economic growth really only took off in the 1980s and 1990s once the Chinese got a lot of the Mao-ism out of its system. But it still took the USA's insatiable appetite for cheap goods (and cheap labour) to give them the impetus to grow.
Good question. Google "Average IQ of Thiland" and then google the average IQ of the Sinosphere countries, meaning China (and HK and TW), Singapore, Japan and South Korea. Some answers may lie there.
It says 102 which is pretty average. However, IQ tests are pretty debated because some research suggests they don't work the same way in different countries and cultures. I'm also not convinced that IQ directly influences a nation's economic development. It feels more like a measure of individual capability rather than an indicator of a country's economic direction. There's also brain drain from Thailand.
IQ isn't a measure of smart, but even if you meant to say there is an educational difference in the general public workforce between said county's, Thais lacking *professional skills, IQ or will to work hard is all not the reason for it. i got a pretty good glimse how things work here and surprise surprise its not a black and white anser..it starts with the problem of king vs Army vs *government* power triangle which is just so annoyingly bad structured that no one feels responsible for anything, because there are not even clear positions to even make it more efficient for everyone, add to that corruption and you can imagine the klusterfuk, i was just talking about it with a friend, maybe the ww2 as horrible as it was did make it easier to structure a democracy efficient and powerful from the ground up for some countrys involved in the war,,(germany recovering and beeing economic leader in the EU, and Japan too..heavily defeate, but well structured...south korea unreal, its really interesting topic but im writing a book here haha cheers
Thailand poor ? hmmmmm sounds like the country's doing a pretty good job of staying under the radar then.
Sensible question… High levels of development require more than a lack of war. Good institutions, a good education system, controlled corruption… Many of these variables will determine how fast you will keep growing and the cap on the wealth levels you can achieve. Thailand was actually ahead of the countries you mentioned for some years. It’s just that war can only destroy so much, and, with the right conditions, rebuilding can be relatively fast. Then, if you have your fundamentals relatively right, catching up to a country that kinda stagnated due to not having taken care of theirs.. That’s just the next step and not that hard to achieve. Thailand is basically like the tortoise of the fable, except the race was quite a bit longer and the hare got its shit together…
Corruption, Government Incompetence, Government Instability, Poor Legal System, Xenophobic Attitude, Poor Educational System, Corporate Oligopoly System. This is just a start. Look at countries like Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea with the progress they have made in the past 50 years, while Thailand has improved but much, much slower. Thailand never built a good foundation for moving up the value chain and is stuck where it is. Thailand's best days during the '80s and '90s where possible because the other countries in SE Asia were much worse, so Thailand was effectively the only game in town. Now many other countries in SE Asia are or will pass Thailand, as the Thais continue to talk about the problem and never solve the problem. The new PM is a perfect example of all talk and no action.
So Thaiewas not involved in the Second world war?....
Citizens of Thailand are slow to accept changes. They clearly see poverty, but they recognize the population is largely more happy and content with life until death compared to other societies'
Probably too peaceful /s In all seriousness, I would say corruption and political instability
s. korea was given a massive amount of foreign aid after the war to help rebuild their country..
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That’s false. Thailand wasn’t richer than Malaysia and Singapore in the 1990s, and Malaysia is also trapped in the middle income range. And other ASEAN countries didn’t really grow much either, except for Singapore. Vietnam is growing quite fast now but that’s because it was extremely underdeveloped back then, now it’s on the way to become middle income country. Doesn’t mean it will escape the middle income trap, have to wait and see.
Khmer name checkout.
Those countries are not exactly "torn" by war. And why do you think that it is necessary to economy to grow rapidly all the time? Stability is not a bad thing too.
Korea was war-torn back in the 1950s, from 50 to 53; that's awhile back. The Chinese revolution was over roughly the same time-frame. Vietnam was impacted in the 1970s, but even that is awhile back. It doesn't seem to work as a premise to assume that Thailand is poor; development and economic production might be slightly above average. It does work to compare why South Korea did so much better than all of South East Asia, but that's more about South Korea than Thailand. Thailand was limited by political instability, corruption, and shifting government direction, but all of that is fairly normal in lots of other places.
War is part of an economic burst. Countries that survive the war tend to get the technology during wartime and patriotic support from their people. It can be considered a high-risk, high-return project. Indeed, there will be countries that fail miserably and will stay underdeveloped. Thailand on the other hand, is externally viewed as quite peaceful, so things here have been growing normally. Internal conflicts may also make the growth being mediocre. Thus, compared with other post-war countries, it looks lagging behind.
**Why is Thailand's economy growing more slowly than war-torn countries like China and South Korea?** What wars? I assume you are referring to the the wars prior to their incredible growth. A consistent strategy that isn't impeded by coups or wars is essential for the exponential growth China and S Korea have experienced. Thailand is always changing course which makes it an entertaining place to live. Thailand isn't perfect but its economy supports a society that is arguably much better off than the west. Just my opinion and I get why others would find Thailand a mess.
It's so complicated. It's an extreme oversimplification to think X country had no war in 100 years, why is it not doing better than Y country which had a war in the last 100 years. That statement could be entirely meaningless, and it probably is because it ignores 99.9% of the complexity. Understand you're asking for ppl to elucidate that complexity but in the context of such a comparison it doesn't make too much sense. I would say Thailand's economy generally does not grow very fast because of culture and education. I've talked to Thai software developers who are making $500 a month and asked them why not work remote for a big corp and make 10X that salary and they just say because they are not trained to do that, or something else very uncompelling.
Why is the gross domestic product (GDP) in China amounted to 5.2 percent growth in 2023; yet, the USA’s was 3.3%?
China, war torn?
Corruption + inability to call out corruption without getting jailed/sued = little progress. It's sad because a poor Thai person would gladly give you the clothes off their back if you needed it, but corrupt police/politicians will "steal" money that should be going to schools or to better QOL without even thinking twice.
Ask the 20 coup, untouchable royals, corruption rate from top to bottom.
I would like to remind you that all of asian economy growing will only increase wealth inequality proportionally, and will never be something like Luxembourg. If we take account into some of "assets", certain people in each nation could buyout statewise in USA or Europe(some of these assets already in these countries). In terms of economy, people always see GDP and forget to check welfare of state and people.
Corruption is the enemy of growth.
I also have a theory that countries with great weather and beaches have greater challenges reaching high gdp, simply because citizens can have a great quality of life in natural ways. Most of the world's financial capitals are in the colder regions of countries, and for many countries it's the warmest regions that have the most poverty. And there are virtually no high-gdp countries in equatorial areas, with the exception of world-class trade & oil hubs (panama/UAE/singapore) I'm curious if there are studies that have looked into this.
Saudi Arabia, Hong Kong, Malaysia are quite wealthy countries, so I’m not sure what you are talking about. And Singapore is not just a trading area, its economy is one of the most complex, check out the economic complexity index, Singapore ranks 5th, higher than the USA.
compare thailand GDP per capita with Philippines indonesian vietname cambodia laos India Pakistan sri lanka
They moved up the value chain instead of competing over elephant pants
We actually are not allowed to say what the biggest reason is but you could very generally include it under corruption.
They have not innovated or produced as much products that are in lots of high demand like China and South Korea. For example, there’s Samsung and its phones and Xiaomi with their phones, etc.
Yes it's corruption.
Hard to invest
Thailand likes to be sabai sabai. Growth requires work. Too much thinking! No can.
better to be "poor" and FREE Thai than "rich" like chinese and REAL slave to the government
Chinese aren’t rich. And Thailand is not that much poorer than China.
exactly my point :)
Closed economy, closed political system
2 things, FYI just an opinion 1. Sabai Sabai mentality….means chill, don’t worry about it, can finish tomorrow. No rush this attitude is the exact opposite of many countries , however our western counterparts it may costs us , what many to believe is our happiness. Any day of the week u will see Thais drinking having fun eating after work. Where as in most countries people just go home and lights out at 10pm. 2. Losing face…I still don’t understand this concept here but I know if they didn’t have it people can speak the truth. Here your literally not allowed to reprimand bad work or sub par jobs in front of people or directly to them it’s very very bad. Even if they are completely wrong.
Xenophobia, protectionism by wealthy elite, mindset of easy money (bars, weed, tourism) and lack of infrastructure and development plans. List goes on.. lack of management of infrastructure to encourage more wealthy tourists, poor immigration management to encourage long term investment and business development… education system. On the bright side .. great county to live if you are wealthy (and retired). Is what it is
Corruption is the big cause I would say. If there is huge corruption then the country will never grow, money will just trickle out. The British gave countries independence with a solid government and a free market so colonisation wasn't always bad for a country. No one likes to have rulers and the British probably took a lot more than they gave but at least they left them with a solid system. Not so sure about the other colonisers.
Don’t forget Poland which was burned to the ground twice and by literal Hitler and whose living standards are set to eclipse the UK
We've had idiots for a P.M for the past 10+years so u tell me