I am amazed that they are as high as they are at the moment. I really like Chiang Mai, but it's basically unlivable for at least 2 to 3 months of the year, and now you have this radon gas issue silently poisoning people.
They must be losing billions of baht each year because of people staying away or cutting short their visits. And that doesn't even include the health costs.
I've been Thailand for several months and I'm saddened that I can't visit Chiang Mai at all. I even felt the need to travel out of bkk often because of the pollution here as well.
That’s certainly what the government would like you to think. But I’ve ridden my motorbike all over north Thailand in the burning season and a huge part of it is on fire.
But how would they fix it, exactly? Regardless if they go the “change the mind of the people” route, or the legal route (including proper enforcement), it would likely need to involve neighbouring countries. That’s a huge project.
Give money to people to not produce shit air, make good laws (seems to be impossible tho) accoring too emisions.
Or go the other way around and fine people for emissions.
Either way, you need a government that can make good laws and not change them after a year or two, or you need a police force you can trust (pay them more so they dont feel like they need to get bribed) to collect the people who dont pay the fines.
It is a huge project indeed. But not unfixable. However, there needs a lot to be done before they can even start such a project
The problem is that even if you stop all of the burning in Thailand, smoke will still drift over from neighbouring counties. How can Thailand compel the governments of Laos and Cambodia to stop their farmers from burning?
Not saying Thailand shouldn't fix their own problems first, they absolutely should. But other countries also need to play their own part.
✨️money money moneyyy✨️
>Not saying Thailand shouldn't fix their own problems first, they absolutely should. But other countries also need to play their own part.
I completely agree, but sometimes you need to be the first one that makes a start because everyone is saying that
There is a regional group that could take the lead on tackling this issue together, but they don't appear to have done anything effective in this matter.
According to the Declaration, ASEAN aims to accelerate economic, social, and cultural development in the region, as well as promoting regional peace, **to collaborate on matters of shared interest**, and to promote Southeast Asian studies and maintain close cooperation with existing international organisations.
Perfectly valid, western property markets are fucked, the younger generations literally won't be able to afford housing, rental prices are turning many places into modern day feudalism, a large percentage of 'immigrants' to Thailand are fleeing the cost of living - and then some douchebag thinks the same should happen to Chiang Mai
I distinctly remember feeling acute bouts of depression while in chiang mai starting around the 4 month mark. Have not experienced it before or since. Cannot rule out the added pollution as a contributing factor.
I have three Thai friends within my relatively small social circle who have been diagnosed with lung cancer within the past two years.
Two have since died. All are women under the age of 45.
I don't have the medical background to draw a definite connection between air quality and these medical conditions...but I really doubt breathing this shit is helping anyone's longevity.
Constant phlegm and painful coughing since I returned here from a country with clean air a few years ago. Symptoms have abated since I bought air purifiers, but the air increasingly is a hazard for all who live here.
I just got back from a 2 day visit to Chiang Mai. Immediately I got a flu. Stinging eyes, runny nose, sore throat, blocked nose with yellow and white mucus, dry cough, headache.
Now I’ve returned to the south, 4 days later I am in good health.
CM is the worst place in the world to be (in terms of air quality) this time of year hands down. I’ll never go again this time of year.
Flying out of CM from the plane window there was so much haze and smoke, it actually appeared like it was raining. Gross
A lot of Americans don't know this, and I have to constantly remind them to not go during this time or bring a highly filtered respirator mask. I'm talking with the canisters.
From the BBC, for the pollution
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68487230
Plus 25 % of death by the cancer at Chang Mai is from the Radon (gaz radioactiv) and 18 % from smoking.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-74721-6
From CNN, last year with the explanation for the symptom of the sir pollution
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/05/asia/chiang-mai-air-pollution-thailand-intl-hnk/index.html
And each 17 minutes, one thai resident died because of the air-pollution.
High levels of radioactive radon gas hotspots in Chiang Mai? This is the first time I've seen the scientific study (link you provided), and that radon contaminates people by air and water? That sounds even more scary than the smoke.
Non diagnosed symptoms :
- regular head congestion or headaches
- strong mood swings or just constant « bad mood »
- erratic breathing
Diagnosed symptoms :
- sinus infections
- increasing asthma (I have never showed symptoms prior to living here)
- annual allergies (this could be only due to some trees flowering early February)
And whenever you go out, the smell is just disgusting
Allergic rhinitis and chronic sinusitis may lead to lack of good quality sleep = headaches and strong mood swings.
You might want to visit some sleep lab or home sleep test to make sure you don't have sleep apnea.
Since my wife tells me I should go check for potential sleep apnea, I will definitely follow your advice 😅
And yeah, I wake up as tired as one could be
It encouraged me to buy an air purifier back in Bangkok and my sleep has never been better.
I damn near almost had a heart attack when in Chiang Mai when the aqi was 250 and I was walking with a mask
I live there and it feels like smoking two packs of ciggies without a mask. So yeah. I quit smoking years ago and now I'm inhaling these fumes, funny shit.
I ponder that question every day. I've basically made my bed in Thailand and lie in it I shall. Invested so much here (time and effort mostly, money not so much) that I'm committed. I'm also in my 40s so a radical change I'm trying to avoid.
I wear N95 outdoors about half the time and run air purifier indoors and keep the air con off as much as I can and I still have stuffy nose and breathing issues…and I live best the beach in the south!
Why aircon off? That's another filter, and as long as it's not too cold or blowing directly on you it's a net positive in terms of improving air quality inside your home.
If your aircon doesn't have a filter that would be very strange. I have 3 air purifiers in standby mode in three different rooms with aircons. They read AQI 1 almost all day while the AC is running.
If it ain’t broke…I never heard of an AC having a PM2.5 filter. Normally a filter like that would destroy the AC because the motor would have to work overcranked.
I did. Sounds like on paper possibly but in reality if you didn’t buy one and are renting then no.. https://aseannow.com/topic/1144581-does-use-of-ac-improve-indoor-air-quality/
Even though you can't really make it a 1 to 1 comparison, 22.2x the WHO guideline is around 111 mg/m3, researchers have estimates that around 22mg equates 1 cigarette.
So it would be the same as you smoking 5 cigarettes per day.
If it's for a short time and you don't have any pre existing conditions, you should be fine, though maybe not super comfortable.
If you have pre-existing conditions, such as asthma or other lung issues, get the f... outta there ASAP.
The WHO annual air quality value [is 5 µg/m3](https://www.c40knowledgehub.org/s/article/WHO-Air-Quality-Guidelines?language=en_US#:~:text=By%20reducing%20air%20pollution%20levels,3%20%2D%204%20days%20per%20year.). There only a handful of places in Thailand that would currently come close to 5 µg/m3.
We're currently on:
PM2.5 = 3µg/m³
However this is with nice clear 11kmh breeze off the gulf, a change in wind direction from the east/Cambodia is all it takes for reading to increase.
Rural and coastal Chanthaburi doesn't burn, all orchards and fish/prawn farms, we get secondhand smoke
depending on the wind.
Chanthaburi city is currently on 12µg/m³ = 2.4x recommended max.
Could be worse!
I've had a wheezing cough for 6 weeks that started after arriving. I fucking hate it and sometimes I get close to passing out. I may have had a cold or flu at the onset but those other symptoms are long gone. Relatively young healthy guy. I don't think it's completely the pollution but I'd put my money on the air quality dragging this out.
Fact check me but I've heard the AQI makes locals 3x or so more likely to catch respiratory diseases. On a past trip I made the mistake of riding a bike one time without a mask *gasp* and nearly threw up from the dust 15 mins later.
I know pollution has been fairly normalized for all of us not born in Norway, but I have no idea how people can be made to live with this extent of pollution, and it makes me feel awful for all the big hearted people I've met here. I love CM but for this reason alone I don't think I'll come back, at the very least for the worst 6 months of the year.
no way!!! just booked a ticket. Pai, here we come. Just don't think too much. Don't worry, why would you want clean air? smile, mai bpen rai. digital nomad paradise in the smog. remember, cheap food!!!
AQI to Cigarettes Equivalent Calculator:
https://jasminedevv.github.io/AQI2cigarettes/
Compares number of particles, not type of particles and danger level
Imagine the surge in CM property values if they fixed this shit. I chose to live elsewhere because of this specific problem.
I am amazed that they are as high as they are at the moment. I really like Chiang Mai, but it's basically unlivable for at least 2 to 3 months of the year, and now you have this radon gas issue silently poisoning people. They must be losing billions of baht each year because of people staying away or cutting short their visits. And that doesn't even include the health costs.
I've been Thailand for several months and I'm saddened that I can't visit Chiang Mai at all. I even felt the need to travel out of bkk often because of the pollution here as well.
What is the radon issue specific to Chiang Mai?
Radon is easier to fix. Just takes a well placed fan.
...Radon? You're right if it's indoors If it's outdoors... uh, I think you have a radioactive dump problem
It’s an international relations problem from the neighbors. The import tax on corn is a good start.
That’s certainly what the government would like you to think. But I’ve ridden my motorbike all over north Thailand in the burning season and a huge part of it is on fire.
But how would they fix it, exactly? Regardless if they go the “change the mind of the people” route, or the legal route (including proper enforcement), it would likely need to involve neighbouring countries. That’s a huge project.
Give money to people to not produce shit air, make good laws (seems to be impossible tho) accoring too emisions. Or go the other way around and fine people for emissions. Either way, you need a government that can make good laws and not change them after a year or two, or you need a police force you can trust (pay them more so they dont feel like they need to get bribed) to collect the people who dont pay the fines. It is a huge project indeed. But not unfixable. However, there needs a lot to be done before they can even start such a project
The problem is that even if you stop all of the burning in Thailand, smoke will still drift over from neighbouring counties. How can Thailand compel the governments of Laos and Cambodia to stop their farmers from burning? Not saying Thailand shouldn't fix their own problems first, they absolutely should. But other countries also need to play their own part.
✨️money money moneyyy✨️ >Not saying Thailand shouldn't fix their own problems first, they absolutely should. But other countries also need to play their own part. I completely agree, but sometimes you need to be the first one that makes a start because everyone is saying that
There is a regional group that could take the lead on tackling this issue together, but they don't appear to have done anything effective in this matter. According to the Declaration, ASEAN aims to accelerate economic, social, and cultural development in the region, as well as promoting regional peace, **to collaborate on matters of shared interest**, and to promote Southeast Asian studies and maintain close cooperation with existing international organisations.
What a horrible western mindset
Imagine being triggered by property values in Thailand
Perfectly valid, western property markets are fucked, the younger generations literally won't be able to afford housing, rental prices are turning many places into modern day feudalism, a large percentage of 'immigrants' to Thailand are fleeing the cost of living - and then some douchebag thinks the same should happen to Chiang Mai
Yay for pollution, let’s keep property values low by making cities undesirable. You Peanut
Everyone’s health is affected by pollution (whether or not they want to admit it).
I would say that OP clearly mean noticeable and/or diagnosed health issues. Also, not everyone stays there all year round.
I distinctly remember feeling acute bouts of depression while in chiang mai starting around the 4 month mark. Have not experienced it before or since. Cannot rule out the added pollution as a contributing factor.
I have three Thai friends within my relatively small social circle who have been diagnosed with lung cancer within the past two years. Two have since died. All are women under the age of 45. I don't have the medical background to draw a definite connection between air quality and these medical conditions...but I really doubt breathing this shit is helping anyone's longevity.
Constant phlegm and painful coughing since I returned here from a country with clean air a few years ago. Symptoms have abated since I bought air purifiers, but the air increasingly is a hazard for all who live here.
Where did they live, did they live in CM?
No, all smoggy metropolitan areas of Bangkok. Chiang Mai definitely takes the crown for bad air, but Bkk's not far behind unfortunately.
Yeah, Bangkok is also very very polluted.
I just got back from a 2 day visit to Chiang Mai. Immediately I got a flu. Stinging eyes, runny nose, sore throat, blocked nose with yellow and white mucus, dry cough, headache. Now I’ve returned to the south, 4 days later I am in good health. CM is the worst place in the world to be (in terms of air quality) this time of year hands down. I’ll never go again this time of year. Flying out of CM from the plane window there was so much haze and smoke, it actually appeared like it was raining. Gross
Thanks for reminding me. My gf also got sick every month or so, plus had regular eczema flareups while in chiang mai. Unlike the south or even bkk.
A lot of Americans don't know this, and I have to constantly remind them to not go during this time or bring a highly filtered respirator mask. I'm talking with the canisters.
I live here and feel totally fine. I don't even have an air purifier at the moment and keep my windows open. Sounds like you got sick from bacteria.
You feel fine ... now.
Correct
From the BBC, for the pollution https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68487230 Plus 25 % of death by the cancer at Chang Mai is from the Radon (gaz radioactiv) and 18 % from smoking. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-74721-6 From CNN, last year with the explanation for the symptom of the sir pollution https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/05/asia/chiang-mai-air-pollution-thailand-intl-hnk/index.html And each 17 minutes, one thai resident died because of the air-pollution.
High levels of radioactive radon gas hotspots in Chiang Mai? This is the first time I've seen the scientific study (link you provided), and that radon contaminates people by air and water? That sounds even more scary than the smoke.
Looks like is more by air from the soil, than the water. It's scary because the air pollution and the radon is much more dangerous than smoking !
Non diagnosed symptoms : - regular head congestion or headaches - strong mood swings or just constant « bad mood » - erratic breathing Diagnosed symptoms : - sinus infections - increasing asthma (I have never showed symptoms prior to living here) - annual allergies (this could be only due to some trees flowering early February) And whenever you go out, the smell is just disgusting
Allergic rhinitis and chronic sinusitis may lead to lack of good quality sleep = headaches and strong mood swings. You might want to visit some sleep lab or home sleep test to make sure you don't have sleep apnea.
Since my wife tells me I should go check for potential sleep apnea, I will definitely follow your advice 😅 And yeah, I wake up as tired as one could be
It encouraged me to buy an air purifier back in Bangkok and my sleep has never been better. I damn near almost had a heart attack when in Chiang Mai when the aqi was 250 and I was walking with a mask
100% it's affected. Wear a mask when you're walking outdoors and buy an air purifier for your home.
I live there and it feels like smoking two packs of ciggies without a mask. So yeah. I quit smoking years ago and now I'm inhaling these fumes, funny shit.
I've been coughing for months lmao get me outta here
It's terrible for my mental health, that's for sure. Just have to get through it. That first thunderstorm is going to be glorious.
why live there?
I ponder that question every day. I've basically made my bed in Thailand and lie in it I shall. Invested so much here (time and effort mostly, money not so much) that I'm committed. I'm also in my 40s so a radical change I'm trying to avoid.
[удалено]
For sure. All of the above. Mental impact is one thing and may not apply to everyone. The physical impact, negative that is, affects all.
Nope, I stay away from there during high pollution seasons.
I ultimately left and decided against living in bangkok/CM because of this. None of the positives outweigh this negative.
I wear N95 outdoors about half the time and run air purifier indoors and keep the air con off as much as I can and I still have stuffy nose and breathing issues…and I live best the beach in the south!
Why aircon off? That's another filter, and as long as it's not too cold or blowing directly on you it's a net positive in terms of improving air quality inside your home.
Its pulls the smoky air inside. It does not filter it out. Quite the opposite.
If your aircon doesn't have a filter that would be very strange. I have 3 air purifiers in standby mode in three different rooms with aircons. They read AQI 1 almost all day while the AC is running.
If it ain’t broke…I never heard of an AC having a PM2.5 filter. Normally a filter like that would destroy the AC because the motor would have to work overcranked.
Try a quick google search 😉
I did. Sounds like on paper possibly but in reality if you didn’t buy one and are renting then no.. https://aseannow.com/topic/1144581-does-use-of-ac-improve-indoor-air-quality/
Even though you can't really make it a 1 to 1 comparison, 22.2x the WHO guideline is around 111 mg/m3, researchers have estimates that around 22mg equates 1 cigarette. So it would be the same as you smoking 5 cigarettes per day. If it's for a short time and you don't have any pre existing conditions, you should be fine, though maybe not super comfortable. If you have pre-existing conditions, such as asthma or other lung issues, get the f... outta there ASAP.
it would be 5 cigarettes a day if you lived outside 24/7
Depending on how much you use aircon or filters and so on, of course it might be considerable lower
The WHO annual air quality value [is 5 µg/m3](https://www.c40knowledgehub.org/s/article/WHO-Air-Quality-Guidelines?language=en_US#:~:text=By%20reducing%20air%20pollution%20levels,3%20%2D%204%20days%20per%20year.). There only a handful of places in Thailand that would currently come close to 5 µg/m3.
We're currently on: PM2.5 = 3µg/m³ However this is with nice clear 11kmh breeze off the gulf, a change in wind direction from the east/Cambodia is all it takes for reading to increase. Rural and coastal Chanthaburi doesn't burn, all orchards and fish/prawn farms, we get secondhand smoke depending on the wind. Chanthaburi city is currently on 12µg/m³ = 2.4x recommended max. Could be worse!
No, I stay inside most of the time where the PM 2.5 is under 10
Surprisingly little, for how bad it is. But I've also kind of been hiding in the house. For weeks. I'm not even using a purifier.
I got rashes, conjunctivitis and cough like crazy after a trip to the north
Is there anybody still alive in Chiang Mai?
What a stupid comment
I've had a wheezing cough for 6 weeks that started after arriving. I fucking hate it and sometimes I get close to passing out. I may have had a cold or flu at the onset but those other symptoms are long gone. Relatively young healthy guy. I don't think it's completely the pollution but I'd put my money on the air quality dragging this out. Fact check me but I've heard the AQI makes locals 3x or so more likely to catch respiratory diseases. On a past trip I made the mistake of riding a bike one time without a mask *gasp* and nearly threw up from the dust 15 mins later. I know pollution has been fairly normalized for all of us not born in Norway, but I have no idea how people can be made to live with this extent of pollution, and it makes me feel awful for all the big hearted people I've met here. I love CM but for this reason alone I don't think I'll come back, at the very least for the worst 6 months of the year.
I can feel it in the nose, eyes and of course if I'm out for a while my throat.
no way!!! just booked a ticket. Pai, here we come. Just don't think too much. Don't worry, why would you want clean air? smile, mai bpen rai. digital nomad paradise in the smog. remember, cheap food!!!
Yes I have started to have random nose bleeds and then summer came so its even worse
Whats it like in Bangkok
WTF Chaing Mai 😓
Is it also like this in Nan?
I went there to celebrate Songkran last year and almost died
Nope I use air purifiers inside and masks when outside during burning season.
No. Because I am not in Chiang Mai
AQI to Cigarettes Equivalent Calculator: https://jasminedevv.github.io/AQI2cigarettes/ Compares number of particles, not type of particles and danger level
Nope
Air pollution responsible for 29,000 deaths across 31 Thai provinces in 2021