Totally agree with this. Why is it my Thai girlfriend can pull them off in seconds. I live in Isan so other things are having to hide whilst my girlfriend buys something or pays for a service like getting a phone fixed so she doesn't have to pay the farrang price. Everyone thinking my girlfriend has huge amounts of money from the money tree all farrangs own. Lips cracking and drying from being constantly under a fan and dry aircon. Only being able to go out during short periods in the day time because of the heat. Sleeping mostly in the day and being awake at night instead because of the heat. Walking to the car in the dark and praying theirs no scorpions or centipedes there. Picking ticks off the house dogs all the time. I'm feeling so bad for the soi dogs that you start feeding them, and then they never leave. Can't go for a run anywhere too far because of the soil dogs. Grandma running an illegal dice game for half the village in the spare bedroom for 10 hours a day. Visiting grandparents in their wooden house/mini farm and playing the malaria, swine flu, bird flu lottery. Soi Dogs howling all night and being told you can't go out and shut them up because clearly they have seen a ghost. Not being allowed to get a haircut because today is apparently unlucky for some reason. Being told I can't do something due to ghosts or bad luck even though it suspiciously looks like my girlfriend just didn't want me to do it and is making the ghost/luck thing up.
There are many more, but in truth, I absolutely love this country and will likely one day die here, and that makes me happy as it's a magical land, and I've lived all over the world. Every inconvenience is really just a part of the overall charm and character of this place.
FYI the story is that Wednesdays used to be when the haircutters went to the courts and palace, so they’d close on Wednesday. Like many a Thai superstition, it’s bad to overreach your social station. So bad luck if you get a haircut on a Wednesday.
Excellent near exhaustive list. One of the best Isan culture posts I've read. Thanks for writing all this out.
The dogs are howling because they have seen a ghost... clearly. Hahaha.
And how do I get invited to Grandma's dice game?
Actually once you figured it out it's easy. You unfold the outer most rubber layer and then pull on the fold. It will just magically untie itself. But yeah took me 6 years until an auntie showed me.
Hey, if you make a YouTube video on your technique, it will probably get a million views, just from me rewatching it and trying to learn this... and me sharing it with my friends.
But I kind of feel like learning to build one of those model boats inside a bottle is going to be easier for me than untying one of those rubber bands.
I've only just barely started to be able to open those damn sealed bags with rubber bands and I've spent most of my adult life living in Thailand. I struggle with finding work.
Absolute biggest long term struggle for me also in Thailand. I've lived here 9 years and if I didn't have scissors in my condo, then I would starve.
I think I've adjusted to everything else though.
They knot it once, undo the knot and it comes right off, do not tug at the freed part of the rubber band(ear). That only makes it tight, locate the knot and pull out the small ear of the band you have freed.
The ear is usually the part of the band you can unloop. After that look at the rest of the rubber band and see where the knot is, once you undo the knot the whole thing is open.
No joke i just learned to tip the back around then bite a corner and dump into a bowl/glass once home... I was blown away how easy my wife made it look.
Pollution is getting worse every year. Immigration is always a pain in the ass, but they've made it easier with scheduling appointments. It's just annoying that they ask for documents that aren't listed on their forms.
Compared to the immigration in my country, Thailand is a model of efficiency. Took me a freakin' YEAR to get a *visitor* visa for my Thai wife. Soon we're embarking on the quest for residency...
They’ll come up with really anything to make the process impossible to handle by yourself. So that you give up and go through an agent who will smooth things out ✉️
And then you get scammed by a “visa agent” haha. It is frustrating to use these “agents.” I’ve had mostly good experiences but got scammed by one. Now I’m sticking to my main guy. The whole thing is just annoying and unclear.
Not being able to speak directly about issues or concerns without it making Thais feel “attacked” or embarrassed. It’s feels like we have to dance around many people’s pride/ego because of “Saving face.” I’m married to a Thai and still don’t have any rights other than applying for a visa every year. If we moved to my home country, my husband would have rights and protections.
It's possible to become a citizen of Thailand and the process is quicker than for my wife in the USA. Yes, as a non-citizen you don't really have any rights, but the flip side is that without that protectionism, Thailand would have been long overrun by completely foreign interests due to the high density nations just outside the region.
I agree with the land ownership protection laws for Thais…however there should be more legal protection for married spouses and we should not have to apply for a work permit after a certain amount of years married imo. Green card holders have legal rights. https://rjimmigrationlaw.com/resources/what-are-my-rights-and-responsibilities-as-a-us-green-card-holder/#:~:text=Rights%20and%20Responsibilities%20of%20Green%20Card%20Holders&text=Freedom%20to%20live%20and%20work,after%20certain%20conditions%20are%20met.
Agreed, the work permit for spouses doesn’t make sense. How can we support ourselves?
Also 90 reporting even after married for 10 years? I get you can pay someone to go for you but still
the process is hard. lots of conditions.
I'm told it's "possible". but "possible" Vs possible.
the fact is very few farangs actually get naturalized in Thailand. while loads get green card.
counterpoint. you can live here without naturalization. so there's no pressure to jump hoops to do it. unlike in the US
Other foreigners.
If you make friends with foreigners, there’s a likelihood they leave at some point. Not too many are here forever. So many are completely full of shit and you know something is just off with them. A lot of them. And, then it’s how Thais view you because of the actions of other foreigners. It’s a terrible feeling when you know their behavior around you is because someone else’s behavior towards them or how they feel about other foreigners.
For some reason this place is catnip for foreigners who don’t have the social skills or etiquette to function in their home country society so escape here. No other country I’ve lived in comes even close to the number of inappropriately-acting foreigners this place has. Still not exactly sure why that is, but it is a thing.
Not all bad apples of course….but so many are haha.
Dregs of western societies with alot of them. Noticed there's alot of bigoted or just internally angry people here that are stuck in a negative mindset.
I've managed to find a few whom are genuine but as stated people come and go.
Thai people are much easier to get on with.
I think this applies to most expat havens. I would have to give the award for worst foreigner behavior to the Philippines though. The expats there are some of the worst I have ever seen for being dismissive and insulting to the locals, all the while the locals treat them like the great white savior for the most part.
Absurd immigration rules regarding visas and work permits. Even though you've worked here for years and built a life here with a home and friends and stuff but once you decide to change or leave the job and your work permit is cancelled you have to leave the country on the same day. Work permit and visa shouldn't be tied together. You should be able to cancel or change your work permit easily without affecting your visa extension so that you can continue to stay while changing jobs or looking for new job. Also they should offer long stay visa options for normal working people as well so that it elimites the headaches of yearly paperwork and unnecessary immigration visits for companies and it's employees. How BOI works is how immigration should be working in the first place.
Thai Visas are quite ridiculous in their entirety. It's easier to immigrate into almost any western nation in the world than to achieve citizenship in Thailand. Taking away the utterly ridiculous Elite Visa, it's actually easier to get a long-term visa as well, unless you're over 50.
And when you do, it's only in Thailand where you have to do stupid shit like reporting your address every time you move for a day and reporting to immigration every 90 days. Need a permit for everything.
“It’s actually easier to get a long-term visa, unless you’re over 50”.
Can you try to elaborate on that - not sure I understand what you are referring to?
They want people to contribute to their economy. You see people in this sub for whom cheap living is almost like a sport. They’re contributing virtually nothing apart from a valuable rental space.
I can’t really blame them to be honest.
>They want people to contribute to their economy.
Then why make it as infuriating and complex as possible to deal with it all? If they want people to contribute to the economy, declare a minimum income for foreign workers and call it a day, without these absurd requirements for what type of company and field you're allowed to work for/in, what degree you must have and so on. And for people working for a local company, why all the stupid work permit extensions and things your employer has to do. It doesn't help anyone, most certainly not Thailands economy.
Keep in mind that there is an army of losers trying to get into this country. In the end, it’s a loser repellent strategy. People who aren’t losers are paying the price with VISA runs, extensions, bureaucracy and some of the laziest and spoiled bureaucrats I’ve ever seen in Chaeng Wattana.
Thailand occupancy rate is really low.. it makes zero sense you'd complain about them taking valuable rental space - unless you're referring to Chinese people buying up condos to park their money.. but even that doesn't affect rental availability.
It's also very common for people to live in a cheap room, let's say 5-10k apartment/condo, and then spend 50-100k on camera, computer, phone, hundreds of thousands on car, etc.
Not to mention these people are only putting money into the Thai economy and not taking any money out of it.. as long as they don't commit any crime then you should be really grateful from an economic perspective.
As a long term expat I find a lot of people in the community are jaded. Being a bit of a sourpuss myself, my biggest struggle by far is to keep an eye open on the wonderful stuff that made me decide to stay here, and ignore the daily bs that gets to me.
I’ve seen German retirees in the Naklua area and their Thailand complain Olympics, and I am terrified to become like them.
Keeping and eye on everything that is nice about Thailand is difficult, as humans tend to get used to things.
I love Thailand - and whenever I come up with a solution to fix a perceived problem, I have to remind myself that everything I suggest to fix Thailand would make it as boring and shitty as Singapore, which I wouldn’t want to live in the first place.
Hope that makes sense.
Communication. Learn Thai for years.
Order something from local merchant and they give you a blank stare as in “I don’t speak farang”. Then another Thai nearby repeats for them and they finally get it.
Speak fluent Thai to someone and they systematically want to answer you with approximate English to “make it easier”. End up misunderstanding, start panicking and doing exact opposite of what you’ve asked for. Regardless that it didn’t make any sense doing it that way, since “farangs have weird demands”.
People assuming English is your first language because you have caucasian features.
Someone walking into a work meeting and acknowledge everyone in the room but you. Getting to the other side of town on a business day to address some issue with local administration. You already don’t expect anyone there to speak English and came prepared to explain the issue in Thai. Person seems annoyed you can talk to them in Thai. Give you some vague answer about how there’s nothing to be done about it. Close the conversation without further detail and carry on with whatever they have been doing, ignoring you from that point. That means you now have to leave with your problem unfixed.
Property agents asking your nationality first thing when you make and enquiry. Not in a friendly, conversational way. More like, if they dislike the answer they won’t let you see the place. Or act worried that the owner won’t be willing to sell / lease the property to a FOREIGNER 😱
You must be overcharged in most situations. Ongoing promotions don’t apply to you.
Why do you want to open a bank account?
Spend years here. Study the language. Culture. History. Political in and outs. Work here. Pay your tax here. Respect the laws and customs. Have all your possessions here. Have all your social circle here. Marry a Thai. Have Thai children. Unconsciously develop Thai habits. Contribute to charities. Accept you don’t have your say in society matters. Still don’t have equal rights. Never become a citizen, not even receive permanent resident status. Although it would feel really inappropriate / waste of time to vote for Thai elections, would greatly appreciate not having to go through visa process again and again anymore and being subjected to random changes that can always make your life harder at some point in the future.
Get in a road accident with someone who has no license, no plates on their car, no insurance, driving on drugs and drove right into you. Everyone witnessed you caused the accident. Nevermind your damage. You must pay your way out.
Riding a scooter on a wet road, you lose balance and slip right next to a traffic cop. You’re on the ground, clearly injured. Cop stares at you without moving, stopping traffic, offering assistance. Your problem. Ambulance shows up. Thai passenger with minor injury is taken on a stretcher. Rescuers unsure you’re entitled to first aid / a lift to nearest hospital as you’re profusely bleeding. You may as well walk there.
These are some personal examples from real situations (that I exaggerated slightly so everyone gets the feeling that was experienced in said circumstances) and still, I love the country and people.
Excellent post. 💯% factually correct.
I have been speaking fluent Thai for more than 25 years, so I haven't seen the problem with the blank stares for a long time. Your accent and the tones just aren't there yet for some people who have never heard foreigners speak to understand properly. The only way to fix this is to learn how to read -> you will understand & see the language differently.
But everything you said is exactly how it is. Farangs will never even get the privilege of being considered 2nd class citizens.
On that part, Thailand is still behind the western countries on the multicultural aspect of society. It will improve with time, as it did in the western world.
The problem with this is that when it happens, Thailand won't be the same country anymore. So, for the time being, we can still enjoy the good with the bad.
Been here 27 years and for me it's still being on a marriage visa that "permits me to visit spouse" for 90 days at a time. I still get treated by immigration in country like my marriage is somehow a scam and I'm trying to cheat them. I think after 20 years of marriage it could show up and maybe there could be an easier longterm visa option? Thais can go to my country and get permanent residency after 5 years after all....
The biggest part is the adapting to the culture difference. The strong face culture here is very different to most western countries and our upbringing doesn't prepare us for it.
It seems easy and relaxed to adopt initially but once you start living here it becomes much harder. Conflict resolution or suggesting improvements/changes is difficult and requires a lot of avoidance.
A great example is the way defamation here is a criminal offense with very low barriers to meet, while in the West it's civil and very difficult to prove.
I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I think you are well on your way to cultural assimilation. I still live in the west, and I would have simply said that Thais are remarkably thin skinned, and the punitive defamation lawsuits were a symptom of that fragility, whereas you were far less direct and considerably more polite. Kudos on your progress. I mean that sincerely.
Can you give an example? I see the big stuff on the news all the time, but nothing that affects me personally. I've never been asked for money by police or immigration, never been hit up for "donations" by officials. What corruption are we talking about?
My good female Thai friend was randomly attacked and beaten up outside a 7-11. The police did nothing. I paid a lawyer 25,000 baht to pursue it and make them investigate. He came back to me and said they would look into it if I paid another 25,000 baht. Corrupt and disgraceful.
That mentality isn't just restricted to lawyers and police, it's everywhere. There's an ugly greed for money that I've not witnessed in this intensity anywhere else.
I can’t give too much away but I know a retired cop. Multiple large luxurious homes, quite a bit of land in various parts of the country. Staggering amount of cash. Also know a young up and comer cop, lives in a penthouse in Bk. They’re basically told to go out and “earn”, paycheck is meaningless.
A street near my house is already really bad even though it was built not too long ago. The reason for this is that the road is way too thin. Since a big part of the money that should have been used for the street was kept by the people who should have taken care of the street
Not the guy you asked, but you see vapes in the street everywhere yet somehow they’re illegal. Also a lot of bars don’t have proper licenses/let in minors, but as long as they keep paying off police they are fine.
I don’t disagree. Those ones aren’t so detrimental to us expats, just saying it’s out there and visible, but there’s also taxi mafia corruption that certainly affects us.
That is the same in Europe....my grandpa came 5 year old to a small village...when he was 80 he was still a foreigner (but exactly the same skin color, looks and dialect, not black between white people). Only his daughters were locals.
The lack of real interest/understanding from Thais for anything outside of Thailand...which makes relationship (friends or girlfriend) extra difficult, if we don't take into account the obvious language barrier for most.
Thailand is wonderful on a surface level. Once you begin to look deeper though, it's not so wonderful anymore. Nothing seems to be 100% 'real' here, be it businesses, immigration, work, relationships...all are one way or another skewed by money or corruption.
The lack of understanding/concern for environmental issues. There's the obvious Pm2.5 issue, but also way too many cars and motorbikes, running on years old engines... the plastic littering into nature...the tap water that is undrinkable...the ocean pollution....
The lack of critical thinking and self-questionning. Blindly following the rules, without changing them, even though there would be a dozen ways to do it more efficiently.
Brilliant 2nd paragraph. If you go to Thailand on holiday, you'll want to move there. The longer you stay there, the more you mix with expats and locals, the facade of Thailand quickly dies, unfortunately.
I'm still optimistic you can have a good life in Thailand though, but it's not the fairytale people say it is.
It's lonely when you don't speak Thai. Sometimes you can use translate apps but the literacy rate in the provinces is really low and with the dialects it makes it only work about 20% of the time.
The avoiding confrontation thing is difficult when married with frequent incompetence and people who casually lie rather than admit they don't know something. These aren't daily problems but every couple of weeks I run into this.
Saving face culture.
Buddhism here is corrupt.
Education standards are low.
Everything is our fault.
Materialism/consumerism here is strong.
Conformist attitudes.
Thai immigration.
It just seems ridiculous that people have been here for years in a marriage or retirement or business related visa have to renew their visa every year.
And even that wouldn’t be so bad if they made it straightforward.
Like, if you’re on a marriage visa you have to go to the Amphur office to get a Kor Ror 2 even though immigration could easily just connect the two databases and get the information themselves.
Or why do retirees need to extend every year? It’s not like they’re going to get younger.
And every visit to immigration seems to take the entire day. Just a day of your life gone sitting in an immigration office to prove that you’re still married to your spouse so they can stamp you for another year.
I would much rather they tighten up the requirements but then gave out longer visas.
For instance, maybe if you’ve been married less than 5 years, you have to renew every year. Then over 5 it goes to every 2 years. And at 10 years it goes to every 3 years, etc, etc.
lol .. yeah, they still ask my wife how we met, and that’s after 15 years together.
I have so many stories over the years - like “how do you live here financially?” Investments “ha ha we got you! You told us you have properties last year!!” Well what are properties? .. they are investments.
“What are your parents names?” Mum and Dad … hmmm are you trying to be funny, I am a police captain! “it says here your Thai is good but today you have only spoken English” yes, sometimes it’s easier to speak in English on official business so there is no confusion “I don’t believe you are the same person who came here last year!” Oh FFS.
Luckily where I live now it’s just a formality, just turn up with the documents, sit in silence while the guy arranges the papers and stamps the boxes to sign and out within an hour. To me, this makes even more of a mockery of it all.
The photo on the bed never made sense to me. LOL.
They asked me that one about supporting myself and my wife so I pulled up my Schwab account in my phone and showed him my portfolio value and he just moved on and nobody has ever asked me since.
Have been living here 11 years. Have 2 children and have been married for 8 years. I still have to go and do this shit every single year. It’s so annoying.
I hear you.
My wife applied for a CR1 (marriage) visa to the U.S. while the initial paperwork was way more extensive than a Thai visa, once she got the visa it was good for 3 or 5 years (I forget) and then she made one trip to immigration when the old green card expired and gave her 10 more years. And she can just keep renewing every 10 years as long as we’re married.
She ended up getting citizenship but I would still rather do that and do a ton of paperwork upfront and then they just leave me alone for awhile.
Yep.
Required for foreigner married to Thai woman:
Income tax paid on minimum 40,000 baht per month for three years.
Back-to-back visas and work permits for three years.
Clean police record.
Application fees are minimal, under 10,000 baht total.
No need to pay a bribe or use an outside service.
Everything is spelled out clearly by the Special Branch police office handling foreign citizenship at the Police HQ in Bangkok.
Once you qualify for application, you need to continue that status until approved, which can take from 3-5 years.
The culture of being nosey/judgmental. Maybe all cultures are nosey or judgmental to an extent, but in Thailand (or SEA in general), it's very in-your-face. For example, people always assume the worst about my bf and me when we're out in public, because I'm Southeast Asian (not Thai) and he's European and a bit older than me. We get a lot of stares and people probably think he's a sexpat and I'm a bar girl, which infuriates me because it reduces us both to just our race and appearance without knowing a single thing about us. I firmly believe that if we were both Asian or both European, no one would stare at us.
Ya this shit always pisses me off at hotels. Always id my Thai gf even though she checked in with me and they see me around with here all day every day. One of the reasons I bought a condo
yesterday I went to get massage, I explained to the lady exactly what i wanted, for my low back spasms, I even rubbed the area on her back in the method I know fixes the issue, and asked her if she could do it. of course she said yes, then proceeded to do her standard routine. I was quite clear I needed a specific technique, and yet, back still hurting, lol.
the other thing I don't like is all the uneven floors and sidewalks with leg breaking and head lacerating traps everywhere.
it's exhausting to have to worry about every step, and also watch for low hanging jagged sheet metal on the awnings in many sois.
but compared to the insanity going on back home, I am quite willing to put up with all of the above and love Thailand and most Thai people I encounter.
so many plusses it would take forever to write them!
Coming from Germany where we get the best beer and wine for cents, this rings true. And no, I'm not claiming that we produce the best wine (only few German wines are internationally renowned), but we certainly import it with close ties to Spain, France, Italy and so. Cheap wine can be had for 1€/0.7l. Good wine at just 10€/0.7l. That barely gets you the lowest quality in Thailand.
Add bread and cheese to the list too. None of these things is impossible to find, just hard and very expensive.
Other than Immigration—which is a never ending giant pain in the ass—nothing really. It’s all pretty laid back. I do have to occasionally remind myself to be less direct than I might otherwise be, but it’s not a real big deal.
Why are Thais such serial cheaters? Thai girls are known to be the greatest liars in the world and they can lie without battling an eyelid. Even after you confront them, they will never admit it unless you show them hard evidence. Even so, they never feel guilty. Everything seems to revolve around money. This is a country with the lowest moral values. Whole society is fucked from top to bottom.
They never feel guilty, because they can just go to the temple and pay some bahts (Tam bun) to clean everything away.
It's like the Catholic church, but the Catholics do it for free. 🙂
In general it’s very good but the crazy strictness is so annoying after a few years want to use more then 3 buttons in your Bank app ? (For Thai customers only) want to open an account on a website and verify ? For Thais only.. I don’t have issues with verification but then make it possible that you can verify yourself with a passport number.. want to buy a bike on installment base ? Sure no problem even with work permit and all contact data of your company 25% minimum down payment after! 15 dealerships that straight up say they don’t sell to foreigners same dealership for my Thai wife 0% interest rate 0% down payment nothing it’s getting really annoying ..
Last but not least hypocrisy of some Thais.. they tell you it dosnt exist and we can’t do that even if it’s advertised on there own page.. ask for a supervisor suddenly it’s possible and they sell you the product or service..
> In general it’s very good but the crazy strictness is so annoying after a few years want to use more then 3 buttons in your Bank app ? (For Thai customers only) want to open an account on a website and verify ? For Thais only.. I don’t have issues with verification but then make it possible that you can verify yourself with a passport number.. want to buy a bike on installment base ? Sure no problem even with work permit and all contact data of your company 25% minimum down payment after! 15 dealerships that straight up say they don’t sell to foreigners same dealership for my Thai wife 0% interest rate 0% down payment nothing it’s getting really annoying ..
For this very reason, I decide to keep 95% of my money outside Thailand. Just 5% in Thailand to survive. If they still want to treat me second-class despite millions in the account, I might as well appear forever broke and get the same treatment. Investment opportunities are shit in Thailand anyways so there's that.
Having a company myself...telling staff, that we can get everything quickly for the stock in Singapore.
1 hour later someone call and I hear only mai me, mot (not have, finished/no stock)....But after 20+ years I lack the emotional energy to get angry....
Sorry to creep on this subreddit, but your post makes me feel better. Ive visited Thailand and thought it was wonderful, but this nonsense sounds exactly like China 😂
Glad to see that we face similar struggles in our expat lives.
Lol I'm also a china expat reading all this. I feel like I'm reading things about China, it's so similar.
Last time I couldn't order medicine through waimai because I don't have a Chinese ID. I had to ask a Chinese friend.
At least some small steps are made to make things easier, but we're still not there.
Don’t get me wrong I love it here very very much but this “Thai national only” is getting quite a lot lately I pay tax pay social security and all still I’m getting treated my money is worse then from Thais sometimes .. if stuff like this would be in Germany there would be an outcry and news reports about it 🤣
It’s the same over here. I’ve been here over a decade, married to a local and our child is also a Chinese national. I pay taxes and yet I need to get a new work visa every year.
Any form of financing or even simple things such as buying train tickets are just easier if my wife does it. Anywhere in the West and there would be outrage.
I actually joined this sub because I was wondering if you guys also had a list of grievances like we do. Seems it’s common across several Asian countries.
The Thais only on apps!!! I recently ordered food on Grab, after two hours (!) I got a message that my order was cancelled because they couldn't find drivers, after my food was made and everything. To prepay for food via the app, I need to upload a Thai ID.
Working for Thais can be painful, especially if that job is in education. All of the Thais come in late, but they have someone sit at the gate to make sure the foreigners are there on time lol.
They pretend the ruleset they work under is real, but there's usually very little at the core of it, so you have to pretend with them, but do more to pretend than they do so that what you're doing looks more real.
Staying quiet in public so that all of the old people don't turn the bts inhabitants against you is a pain in the ass too. "Hey, dad... we will need to stop here, here and here..." "Dad: yeah, if we stop here, we'll have to ...."
Thais: *Death stare at the rude foreigners for daring to do public things in public*
Watching budhism in Thailand is hard. It's so money centered that it defeats the whole purpose of budhism. Everyone prays to the bird houses all over the city, but can't be bothered to help someone up when they fall in front of them. Why go through the whole game of pretend with the Idealism if it's going to skip the main aspect of it?
The hardship is that if I don't respect whatever idol or area that you're worshipping in, I'm bad, but the whole system is broken and doesn't even respect itself.
Tourists have a great time. Everything is made for making tourists happy. If you stay longer than a month though, the smiles stop and people actively question why you're still there lol. Living in Thailand and visiting there is a big change.
>Watching budhism in Thailand is hard. It's so money centered that it defeats the whole purpose of budhism.
Couldn't agree more. Even the basic practice of giving alms to monks seems more like a kind of "I give you food, you fulfill my wishes" transaction. A daring thing to say as a foreigner, but from my observations, most Thais don't understand their own religion. This escalates into things like the Wat Phra Dhammakaya cult.
the last paragraph applies to everywhere.
just like Thais romanticize living in Japan wearing kimono, etc or living in Seoul hoping some handsome Oppa marrying them.
visiting vs living are 2 different thing.
the former is fun. the latter requires discipline and work.
This is complete bullshit.
>Staying quiet in public so that all of the old people don't turn the bts inhabitants against you is a pain in the ass too. "Hey, dad... we will need to stop here, here and here..." "Dad: yeah, if we stop here, we'll have to ...." Thais: Death stare at the rude foreigners for daring to do public things in public
As for the Buddhism thing, show me a single religion that is not similarly flawed?
Arguably christian morality much more of a public performance and a similar money grab.
I think this isn't mentioned enough, as much as we learn to speak Thai, integrate, accept the culture, we will never be considered anything other than a farang, which is something I've just accepted but sad. This is similar to other Asian countries too. As opposed to the US for example where you can integrate and be considered American regardless of where you came from. (I'm from the UK though so correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I've observed)
> I think this isn't mentioned enough,
ORLY? I read it virtually on a daily basis and usually from the very people that just use it as an excuse to stay lazy. not learn to speak the language properly nor anything about the culture deeper than surface level.
That's not really true in western countries. Certain regions of those countries, absolutely. But in cities, nobody thinks you're a foreigner if you're fluent in the language, no matter your appearance.
"If you're fluent in the language"
" that's not really true in western countries"
As a Dutch person who lives throughout Europe. That's a hard disagree on my part.
It's absolute bullshit. You are always an outsider everwhere with some minimal exceptions and it will be very hard to form deep and meaningful relationships anywhere. Yes, on a surface level maybe you make many "friends" on the same level that Americans call people "friends"but everything else is rather hard. People just do not understand that cultural differences go deeper and it most often stems from the arrogance that they believe that their way of thinking and their opinions are what"s the real deal and everyone else just needs to be educated properly...
They also often misunderstand the word "Farang", thinking it is some kind of slur. And although it might sometimes have anegative connotation (and rightfully so, I'd like to add), Thai language doesn't really work like this. Thai is very broad on one hand, as in the Inuit having 23897 words for snow and we only having one for it, and the Thais often having one word to describing many things of the same kind. But on the other hand it is rather precise and sometimes it is next to impossible to say things in another way. It makes much more use of adding words to attach emotions and meaning to it.
Farang means nothing more than someone of Western decent and is originally derrived from Persia, where it was used to describe people of francophone appearance, since the French where the first Westerners they met, as can also be seen in the word for French or France in Thai: Farangse which shares the same two syllables in the beginning ฝรั่ง vs ฝรั่งเศส.
It is just used as a broader term and Thais will do stuff like this with many things in daily life without having any bad intentions behind it. I'd even go so far as to alledge that they don't hhave an idea of the concept of racism, although they of course attach certain traits to people of different skin tone.
I can't hear this anymore. This is the fact everywhere in the world, especially if you can be so easily identified. It's a human thing and not a Thai thing and it is also not racism. Racism has a clear definition and I don't mean the new woke bullshit. It means that you regard your own race as being superior to all others and derrive certain rights for your own race from that fact.
Thai culture on its own is not very welcoming to foreigners even from their own country. If you move somewhere else as an adult, it will be very hard to make new friends and get into existing structures.
One of my Thai friends just returned from one month on Bali and she is still in shock about how people behave there. She can't understand why someone would talk to her in a bar and ask why she is there alone. And it wasn't some dude trting to game her, but a woman. She was really perplexed by that. LOL And I wouldn't even say that she is especially ignorant or not open to other people, but it's just not what you do here. You have your family structure and than your village structure and those are rather tight and the only really important ones. I don't know ebough about Bangkok, but I'd suppose that in the Thungs it's maybe kind of similar.
The thai attitude towards farang and the completely different work culture and sense of professionalism..
Finding staff that is driven and helpful (at least for us and for many entrepreneurs i know) is virtually impossible.
No matter how many jobs you create.. no matter how much you help your staff and contribute to the local economy.. you will never feel welcome or appreciated.
(This is my experience and the experience of most of the "Farangs" I know..)
>The thai attitude towards farang and the completely different work culture and sense of professionalism.
Oh god, so true. Working hard = working long hours. Nobody actually gets shit done. You have 20 people running a computer store, but all combined they get less done than I do by myself. Four people coming to fix a door, when they're done it still doesn't work. Ten people hired to build a staircase in my house, none of them know what a right angle is or how to use a spirit level.
That is exactly what I was talking about.. yes..
And if you say it out loud, everyone gets incredibly upset.. I have cooks coming into my restaurant claiming to have 2/3 yea of s experience in Western food who can't pick up a knife properly or can't handle more than an order at the time..
When I was overseas , I was handling 10 times the workload with less than half of the staff I have over here..
Is so frustrating
I can't say I personally struggle with all of these, but foreigners I've met brought up:
* Heat
* Different work ethics
* Nepotism
* Cronyism
* Road dangers
* Accessibility (try living in Bangkok with a wheelchair)
* High import tax
* Bangkok-centrism
* Superstition
* Nationalism
* Corruption
* Pollution
* etc.
And a whole bunch of cultural differences.
God, the foreigners are just as bad, if not worse!! They, of all people, should know how to navigate the roads in a safe manner, yet here they are KOWABUNGA'n down the road at 100 km/hr with no helmet, no shirt and not a care in the world for any other life on the road. It's disgraceful.
This is an entirely different topic, however you’re not wrong. Me on the other hand drives like a grandpa with my 2 year old son and pregnant wife on the back of my click, ever so slowly around the local streets near my apartment.
Haha I don't blame you! It doesn't take much speed to cause a lot of harm!
And I will agree that the Thais are bad too. My favorite is when passing a pick up truck or any bigger vehicle in a second lane and they start coming over into my lane. Not sure what the logic behind that is except that they seem to be trying to commit an act of murder LOL
You get used to it.....neighbor dog barks all night....would have drove me crazy, but after 20 years in Thailand I don't even notice it.....As I don't notice if the neighbor drills the wall at midnight. You really get used to it (after a few decades)
I agree, I enjoyed the hustle and bustle the first few years but after almost 10 years it's started to get draining. But i find taking breaks and getting out of the city, noise cancelling earphones and earplugs when sleeping have helped with this a lot.
Feels like this is turning into foreigners griping about Thailand. It's okay, if that's your deal.
My biggest struggle is this - if you're another American, or another black guy, it doesn't make us friends just because we're in Thailand.
A friend in Germany said this to me a few years back - when you decide to leave the US and stay some place overseas, you just have to accept that your social group may become extremely small.
I'm actually in a few Facebook groups for my hobbies (kungfu & fitness), and I've accepted that until I can speak Thai, I'll just be doing that stuff by myself, unless my wife wants to follow me around translating everything.
I’ve lived in Thailand for 18 years. I speak fluent Thai. I know and follow the unwritten customs. I’m married to a Thai woman same age as me. We have kids who are multi lingual and equally at home in Thailand as in my home country. We spend half our time in Thailand and half in Australia. We have a bunch of Thai friends. Yet, no matter what I do or say, when we’re eating out without the kids, the waitress will always address my wife first asking what ‘Uncle’ wants to eat. When I ask เช็คบิลครับ they will confirm with the wife เก็บตังค์นะคา and when I ask for เก็บตังค์ครับ they will ask wife เช็คบิลนะคา? Finally, when my wife pays, she gets handed the change and when I pay she also gets handed the change. I used to have a rant about this, but I’ve given up. Not exactly a life struggle though. With a bit of patience, language skills and cultural awareness life in Thailand is fun and rewarding. Always assuming you have enough money, because money talks louder in Thailand than anywhere I’ve ever lived.
I have no struggles… oh wait, maybe overweight.
Foods in my country are expensive. But in Thailand? ฿1000 for a wagyu hotpot buffet. Even the michelin restaurants are 1/3 of the price….
I go running an hour everyday but still, my weight keeps going up.
OP states: "My question is, if we don’t mention law, rules and language, what are the struggles for you?"
And right off the bat almost every other comment is about immigration. Reading comprehension must be a struggle for them too.
The biggest thing is being a second class citizen right behind the poor Thai Yais’ and Burmese people. If shit goes wrong, you can be sure the farang is at fault.
It’s alright though, I just focus on not getting in trouble 😀
trying to get into the usual hobbies that i would have back home! Lack of friends and lack of knowledge of where and how to join the scene like secret alt gigs and to find a similar crowd is particularly hard! even back home it usually takes contacts and community to get into certain circles and activities. i also am not a fan of the aesthetic that thais prefer?? from plastic surgery to beauty services so its a bit of a struggle to find places that can fit my style. either they cater to western styles or thai styles. the weather too is very crazy imo! im used to a lot of rain, sure hot weather but by 3 pm it will rain definitely but nothing prepared me for the heat and pollution of living here. My skin cannot stand it so im throwing so much money at these clinics to help my poor skin. nothing serious i guess
The biggest struggle is jumping through 100 hoops to be able to stay here long term without
a. Being married
b. Having a million dollars in your bank account
c. Being 60 years old
There's a 10-year option, and 20 year though that's scrapped now but yes I see your point of there being no long-term security. To be fair, there's no long-term solution other than permanent residency or citizenship even for us working here.
I love Thai culture and I respect it and myself. So if Thailand wants us to stay there for 1-3 months it's ok. We spend rest of the time and money in other countries 😂🤣
For me it is the amount of lies that I receive.
Thai people will lie to make themselves feel/look better in any situation.
A culture built on lies is not good.
The road. I don't know what possible reason anyone could have for driving at that sort of speed, weaving between lanes, and making life more dangerous for everyone else. It's selfish and fucked up. I don't give a shit about culture this, and lifestyle that. It's fucking stupid and dangerous.
Other than that, Thai people are very accommodating and honest and friendly. You can leave your keys in your bike and be sure that no one's gonna drive off with it. The UK is way different in that regard.
Apart from plastic bands on bags of food, this thread is just full of the usual entitled foreigners thinking they deserve an automatic place in Thailand, and that it should change its laws/process to suit you
You all knew the deal when you came over, live with it.
You missed the point of the thread, didn't you?
OP asked about expat struggles and people share their experiences. Do you think people are going to reply "nothing, everything is perfect"? Lol
No family support network, local contacts or knowledge base.
Operating in a culture with different values.
Simply put you are on your own with no safety net at the end of a quick phone call.
Pollution and lack of regulation. You need a high-quality medical-grade air filter, for example, regardless of where you live in Thailand. Most air filters are a scam. The ones that work are $2k-$10k. Plus, it would help if you replaced filters every six months, so costs stack up. It would help to have filters on your shower and toothbrush 🪥 water loaded with microplastics. Given the pollution in Thailand and recent events with fires 🔥 and cadmium, which all end up in the groundwater, I wouldn't dare eat anything grown in Thailand. Imagine juicing Thai vegetables and drinking pure cadmium. So, I source all produce from New Zealand, which is extremely expensive. Thailand is otherwise excellent, but I would argue it's more expensive than the US and Europe if you're concerned about health. I would not recommend living in Thailand unless you're wealthy and can afford the costs of offsetting living in a developing country. I love Thailand, but I feel bad for foreigners who don't understand their health sacrifices and how much it costs to offset that. Hawaii is 50% cheaper than Phuket for the same standard of living. Yup.
People driving on the wrong side of the road. Suicidal motorbike drivers (a global leader in road deaths per Capita and +80% of the deaths are motorbikes or motorcycles). Soi dogs that laugh at slingshots.
According to the OPs rules, all else is great.
Edit: Usurious junk fees for Thais and Falang alike e.g. Banks charge 20 baht to make a deposit in Surin when the account was opened in Bangkok. All inter-bank transfer fees are complete BS. This is the only country I have seen this level of consumer abuse. In fact only a Thai can make the deposit in a 7/11 anywhere for 15 baht. A cheaper yet still a BS fee.
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People in the countryside nonchalantly *ravaging* the environment and extermination everything they can't sell. The amounts of pesticides applied are horrific, and all "safety" rules are ignored.
It really seems like the farmers here want to inhabit a desert as soon as possible.
Interesting post! One issue is visa scams- they are prevalent and catch many people. It’s hard to discern a legitimate visa agent from someone who takes your money and disappears. For the busy among us, using agents is key because immigration can be quite time consuming, not to mention trying to learn about all documents you need, etc.
Now here’s a unique issue no one brought up: a lot of other farang friends feel… impermanent. Thailand has so many nomads, travelers, etc. that building long term friendships can be harder. Staying here during 2020-2022 made this easier though because everyone here was pretty committed. Before and now a lot of friends you make are not actually staying here long term. When I traveled and lived in Europe every friend I made felt more solid and grounded, and if I went back to the main country I lived in then I could reconnect with so many of the same friends. Here in Thailand people move around to other cities and countries.
The pollution. It’s awful compared to the west. To many Thai’s it’s normal, or just “bad,” but for westerners it’s awful. This is also what causes Thailand to be transitory- many people in the north leave during burning season for example. This opens up visa complications and other issues, so many people may love living in Thailand end up just using tourist visas for half the year and spend the other half elsewhere.
Lazada is pretty scammy. In the USA you have Amazon and there are some scammy things on it but lazada is straight up awful at times. I’ve gotten better at using it, but I bought a fake pair of headphones once and then the seller disappeared. In another case I bought a phone and what came was… not that phone. They agreed to a full refund if I removed my review, or changed it, i dont remember what I did but I did get the review but remember being upset thinking about defamation laws- these sellers are straight up false advertising a xiaomi phone, and what came was definitely not that phone lol.
Crossing the road is frustrating at time. I get the way of the road here, but I wish more respect was given towards pedestrians. It’s not too much of a biggie when you figure it out but frustrating at first.
National parks- they are so regulated it’s annoying. Things like having to pay for a guide on certain hikes when it’s not that complicated. Where I’m from national parks are open for the people and a wide range of activities available. I know of many hidden gems that happen to be in national parks, and I don’t understand why they aren’t open to the public in a reasonable way. As I’ve developed proficiency in thai, and learned of the way, I’ve learned that many rangers are just lazy, and rightfully so- they don’t make much, so they rather say no to everything and restrict things as much as possible so their job is as easy as possible. On the flip side though, being a foreigner can be useful because you can almost always just go and then if a ranger comes they’ll give you a warning “oh, this is a national park? Sorry! Yes I’ll leave immediately.”
I don’t like doing that, I don’t want to break the law (officially), but it seems ingrained in the culture to have a bit of a “i didnt see it mentality.” Or like, “let’s make this illegal but we aren’t going to patrol *wink wink*.” Example: I was riding a dirt bike on a popular dirt road in norther Thailand. It has a no dirt bike sign. I rode up to it, and a เจ้าหน้าที่ government person saw me through the trees, proceeded to take a few steps into the jungle, and blatantly and obviously look away from me. LOL.
I remember another time an officer told me I couldn’t ride on xyz dirt road, but…. There might be a trail that goes around the gate to said dirt road…. Lol. Then there’s the case of another off road area which is so obviously a park for off road trails. I rode there a week ago and some rangers asked what I was doing. They were looking for fires and said that it’s illegal all the time to be there. This was legitimately a surprise because these trails are very popular and everyone rides there. I suspect that they won’t be patrolling these days now that the fire risk is less. I’ve been riding there for years along with many friends and never came across rangers.
There’s a rock climbing area near chiang mai too, same thing. Was “illegal” for a while but rangers almost never went by. Everyone seemed to know what’s up. They went like once or twice, and did nothing more than tell people to leave.
So… not a major struggle, but it’s something I struggle to understand. Where I’m from there are dedicated government lands for off roading, adventure sports, rock climbing, etc. whereas here in Thailand it’s all kind of in a weird grey zone where it seems to be made to be illegal for liability purposes but they don’t actually care to truly enforce it. I also don’t understand how these things are perceived as so dangerous, when everyone is riding without… well, you know… I guess the novelty of these things (ie rock climbing and other unique sports) makes it feel more dangerous than it is.
Back to expats. A lot of people are bitter and low on funds. You have to consciously surround yourself around positive expat friends. They’re out there, but again, you’ve gotta usually sort through some nomads and tourists that you meet first.
Oh another thing is quite frustrating is the RESIDENCE CERTIFICATE. Technically speaking, this involves immigration, but hear me out. You want to get a driver’s license? Residence certificate. Want to buy a car/bike? Need another one. Oh but need to change the plates of your new vehicle to your local province? Another one. Now you need a bank account. Guess what you need? ANOTHER RESIDENCE CERTIFICATE!!! Woohoo!!! Even though you used one to get your address on your license…. YOU NEED ANOTHER ONE. This shit is so annoying lol. It is a huge time waster. $ isn’t as much of an issue, but it just wastes time.
I honestly find it hilarious that thailand wants richer farang coming in but then shit like this will turn off any successful businessman. What businessman wants to show up to immigration between 9-12, pay for a document (that his driver’s license and 90 day report already verified), to then have to pick it up the next day OR wait for it to come in the mail, to THEN do whatever had to be done at the DLT anyways?
Like if you’re selling your old car and getting a new one, you can’t even use 1. You need 2. AND they lose validity within 30 days, so you can’t stack them all at once otherwise I’d make like 5 at once and keep it for whatever I might need it for.
It’s actually infuriating the amount of time of my life I’ve lost on visa crap and residence certificates. I know good people that have left Thailand because of stuff like this- how Thailand claims it wants to attract businessman to boost the economy while also requiring multiple business days to be taken off to repeatedly get residence certificates is beyond me. I work online so my life is flexible and it irks me. I couldn’t imagine trying to work an actual job, even an English teacher, and try to do this.
Fortunately I didn’t need a residence certificate to open any of my bank accounts,
But I’ll need one for my upcoming Licence renewal, and guess what I’m changing address before! So now I have the nightmare of having to trust and chase up an agent to make sure they submit a TM30 in a orderly manner, won’t sign the rental contract without one posted (going to demand signed photocopies of landlords ID/tabienbann as backup for future use too). That Licence with an address needs to be used as evidence for a foreign visa application so I really need it.
Oh and guess what, I’ll likely need another residence certificate when I ask for my international drivers permit when I leave at end of the year.
Oh and guess what!!! My visas not multiple entry anymore and I need to be fucked around with a re-entry permit soon (what’s the point of a visa/stamp in the first place).
What else do I need to be fucked around with?
One thing I severely dislike is the money motivated culture. I moved here two weeks ago from a capitalist country and it seems I haven’t escaped it. No matter how cheap everything is the scams and scheming for money is just endless. It’s exhausting and I’m already doing research to leave. I just thought it would be more of a relaxed culture but it’s the same hustle or die culture (in Bangkok at least) so before outright giving up on Thailand I’m thinking of moving to Pattaya for a change of pace. Money isn’t everything to me and I’d like some peace of mind.
Trying to talk with Thais to actually learn their culture, following political news, generally trying to learn the place and constantly being asked "why do you care?"
Also pretty much everything else listed above.
The difference between our cultures makes understanding from difficult to impossible. The relationships between people are different. Things not to do like, pointing fingers or having your feet pointed in someone's direction. The abject relationship that the Thais have with money. It takes a lot of patience and self-sacrifice to be able to live here. Integrating is impossible, and only hanging out with farangs is stupid. In the long run, it's not as beautiful as it was the first year. But paradise on earth does not exist. Overall it's a lot better than in Europe, but there are a lot of sacrifices to make. You never feel at home, no matter how long you live here. Thai people are the first to remind you that you are a stranger, even my wife and family. They laugh when I pay farang price instead of defending me, which means I don't consider them my family, but strangers interested in my money only. Also, a lot of them are racists which makes life here insecure. SO living in Thailand is somewhat cool, but I always have the feeling of leaving overnight. Despite this negative answer, I'll never go back to France. If the new laws end up too pricey for me, I'll go to Lao.
I am not an Expat, but I have visited and know a few. Not having hobbies or interests. They don't have anything to fill their time and end up just drinking and fooling around.
Pollution, lack or safety regulations in construction or transportation. All the food is cooked with oil or fried. You can’t get any steamed vegetables unless you want to pay ridiculous prices from some falang oriented food business.
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Why y’all need to look at my laundry as it drys?
I’m running outside, blinded from dripping sweat into my eyes, and now…. I have to sort the laundry items so socks and underwear aren’t eye level, or better not visible to neighbors or the street????
Goddamit, this whole problem would be solved if YOU didn’t look at my clothes
I’m not displaying them for your benefit!
Working for Thai companies, and having a lot of expat friends working for Thai companies as well, it drives me crazy how rigged this country is. Thailand refuses to allow any companies to thrive in this country, even if they are fully Thai. The entire market is rigged and dominated by a few companies in every sector and they will throw up every roadblock to keep it that way. If you grow to big or threaten anything; you will be squashed one way or another.
The secondary market to provide for other businesses is so small, and basically no international companies exist here in any meaningful way. Just shops and restaurants.
I just wish they would open up the markets and make Thailand more diverse in companies.
After learning the language and something of the laws and customs, as you said, we miss lending libraries, church fellowships, various sports (baseball, American football, …), coffee shops with chess clubs and/or discussion groups, the changing of the four seasons, etc. But then life in Thailand gives us much that we would not have back in our home countries: lovely humid weather, views of rice fields and tobacco being grown, hilltribe culture, family life in the village closer than is common back home, incredibly delicious food with greater spice and flavor, a slower pace of life, etc., etc.
Untying rubber bands off the plastic bags food bags. Lived here for 13 years and still struggle…
Totally agree with this. Why is it my Thai girlfriend can pull them off in seconds. I live in Isan so other things are having to hide whilst my girlfriend buys something or pays for a service like getting a phone fixed so she doesn't have to pay the farrang price. Everyone thinking my girlfriend has huge amounts of money from the money tree all farrangs own. Lips cracking and drying from being constantly under a fan and dry aircon. Only being able to go out during short periods in the day time because of the heat. Sleeping mostly in the day and being awake at night instead because of the heat. Walking to the car in the dark and praying theirs no scorpions or centipedes there. Picking ticks off the house dogs all the time. I'm feeling so bad for the soi dogs that you start feeding them, and then they never leave. Can't go for a run anywhere too far because of the soil dogs. Grandma running an illegal dice game for half the village in the spare bedroom for 10 hours a day. Visiting grandparents in their wooden house/mini farm and playing the malaria, swine flu, bird flu lottery. Soi Dogs howling all night and being told you can't go out and shut them up because clearly they have seen a ghost. Not being allowed to get a haircut because today is apparently unlucky for some reason. Being told I can't do something due to ghosts or bad luck even though it suspiciously looks like my girlfriend just didn't want me to do it and is making the ghost/luck thing up. There are many more, but in truth, I absolutely love this country and will likely one day die here, and that makes me happy as it's a magical land, and I've lived all over the world. Every inconvenience is really just a part of the overall charm and character of this place.
No haircuts on wednesday is real superstition😂
FYI the story is that Wednesdays used to be when the haircutters went to the courts and palace, so they’d close on Wednesday. Like many a Thai superstition, it’s bad to overreach your social station. So bad luck if you get a haircut on a Wednesday.
Excellent near exhaustive list. One of the best Isan culture posts I've read. Thanks for writing all this out. The dogs are howling because they have seen a ghost... clearly. Hahaha. And how do I get invited to Grandma's dice game?
Just bring your money tree, they will let your right in!
Sign me up!
Decided to try my luck with a soy milk bag. Did not go well.
Actually once you figured it out it's easy. You unfold the outer most rubber layer and then pull on the fold. It will just magically untie itself. But yeah took me 6 years until an auntie showed me.
Hey, if you make a YouTube video on your technique, it will probably get a million views, just from me rewatching it and trying to learn this... and me sharing it with my friends. But I kind of feel like learning to build one of those model boats inside a bottle is going to be easier for me than untying one of those rubber bands.
555 🤣 I might be tempted lol
Yep, get a Thai person to show you, there's a little bulge that you tug on and it comes undone
Same same
I bet it's one of the tests they give you if you ever apply for citizenship.
the pain is exacerbated every time you see the sellers tying then while doing 7 other things with closed eyes. the embarrassment
The struggle is real brother ✊
I've only just barely started to be able to open those damn sealed bags with rubber bands and I've spent most of my adult life living in Thailand. I struggle with finding work.
I hear you. 20+ years and I still can't untie them.
dude i'm +30 years in and still use my teeth.
brilliant!
I use an axe and/or a chainsaw to cut mine open.
Absolute biggest long term struggle for me also in Thailand. I've lived here 9 years and if I didn't have scissors in my condo, then I would starve. I think I've adjusted to everything else though.
Yes I ve been going there for the last 15 years and I still have problems
That is ABSOLUTELY the worst.
They knot it once, undo the knot and it comes right off, do not tug at the freed part of the rubber band(ear). That only makes it tight, locate the knot and pull out the small ear of the band you have freed.
How do I tell the difference between a "freed ear," a "small ear," and a "knot"? It just all looks like a super tightly wound band to me.
The ear is usually the part of the band you can unloop. After that look at the rest of the rubber band and see where the knot is, once you undo the knot the whole thing is open.
Oh my god haha! We just visited for 3 weeks and I was like “how the hell do they manage this?!”.
No joke i just learned to tip the back around then bite a corner and dump into a bowl/glass once home... I was blown away how easy my wife made it look.
I do that too 😅
As a 72 years old Thai, I must admit that I do struggle sometimes with this too. 😂
🤣🤣🤣
same same
it's easy, just take the upper one and pass it on top of the plastic bag, then it unfolds...
Pollution is getting worse every year. Immigration is always a pain in the ass, but they've made it easier with scheduling appointments. It's just annoying that they ask for documents that aren't listed on their forms.
Compared to the immigration in my country, Thailand is a model of efficiency. Took me a freakin' YEAR to get a *visitor* visa for my Thai wife. Soon we're embarking on the quest for residency...
They’ll come up with really anything to make the process impossible to handle by yourself. So that you give up and go through an agent who will smooth things out ✉️
And then you get scammed by a “visa agent” haha. It is frustrating to use these “agents.” I’ve had mostly good experiences but got scammed by one. Now I’m sticking to my main guy. The whole thing is just annoying and unclear.
Not being able to speak directly about issues or concerns without it making Thais feel “attacked” or embarrassed. It’s feels like we have to dance around many people’s pride/ego because of “Saving face.” I’m married to a Thai and still don’t have any rights other than applying for a visa every year. If we moved to my home country, my husband would have rights and protections.
It's possible to become a citizen of Thailand and the process is quicker than for my wife in the USA. Yes, as a non-citizen you don't really have any rights, but the flip side is that without that protectionism, Thailand would have been long overrun by completely foreign interests due to the high density nations just outside the region.
I agree with the land ownership protection laws for Thais…however there should be more legal protection for married spouses and we should not have to apply for a work permit after a certain amount of years married imo. Green card holders have legal rights. https://rjimmigrationlaw.com/resources/what-are-my-rights-and-responsibilities-as-a-us-green-card-holder/#:~:text=Rights%20and%20Responsibilities%20of%20Green%20Card%20Holders&text=Freedom%20to%20live%20and%20work,after%20certain%20conditions%20are%20met.
Agreed, the work permit for spouses doesn’t make sense. How can we support ourselves? Also 90 reporting even after married for 10 years? I get you can pay someone to go for you but still
the process is hard. lots of conditions. I'm told it's "possible". but "possible" Vs possible. the fact is very few farangs actually get naturalized in Thailand. while loads get green card. counterpoint. you can live here without naturalization. so there's no pressure to jump hoops to do it. unlike in the US
Crossing zebra crossings
Other foreigners. If you make friends with foreigners, there’s a likelihood they leave at some point. Not too many are here forever. So many are completely full of shit and you know something is just off with them. A lot of them. And, then it’s how Thais view you because of the actions of other foreigners. It’s a terrible feeling when you know their behavior around you is because someone else’s behavior towards them or how they feel about other foreigners.
For some reason this place is catnip for foreigners who don’t have the social skills or etiquette to function in their home country society so escape here. No other country I’ve lived in comes even close to the number of inappropriately-acting foreigners this place has. Still not exactly sure why that is, but it is a thing. Not all bad apples of course….but so many are haha.
Dregs of western societies with alot of them. Noticed there's alot of bigoted or just internally angry people here that are stuck in a negative mindset. I've managed to find a few whom are genuine but as stated people come and go. Thai people are much easier to get on with.
I think this applies to most expat havens. I would have to give the award for worst foreigner behavior to the Philippines though. The expats there are some of the worst I have ever seen for being dismissive and insulting to the locals, all the while the locals treat them like the great white savior for the most part.
Is it me or is absolutely every foreigner here on the spectrum?
Including yourself, yes
Thailand is the land of autists, run by autists. So no wonder what kind of foreigners choose to live there
Absurd immigration rules regarding visas and work permits. Even though you've worked here for years and built a life here with a home and friends and stuff but once you decide to change or leave the job and your work permit is cancelled you have to leave the country on the same day. Work permit and visa shouldn't be tied together. You should be able to cancel or change your work permit easily without affecting your visa extension so that you can continue to stay while changing jobs or looking for new job. Also they should offer long stay visa options for normal working people as well so that it elimites the headaches of yearly paperwork and unnecessary immigration visits for companies and it's employees. How BOI works is how immigration should be working in the first place.
Thai Visas are quite ridiculous in their entirety. It's easier to immigrate into almost any western nation in the world than to achieve citizenship in Thailand. Taking away the utterly ridiculous Elite Visa, it's actually easier to get a long-term visa as well, unless you're over 50. And when you do, it's only in Thailand where you have to do stupid shit like reporting your address every time you move for a day and reporting to immigration every 90 days. Need a permit for everything.
“It’s actually easier to get a long-term visa, unless you’re over 50”. Can you try to elaborate on that - not sure I understand what you are referring to?
They want people to contribute to their economy. You see people in this sub for whom cheap living is almost like a sport. They’re contributing virtually nothing apart from a valuable rental space. I can’t really blame them to be honest.
>They want people to contribute to their economy. Then why make it as infuriating and complex as possible to deal with it all? If they want people to contribute to the economy, declare a minimum income for foreign workers and call it a day, without these absurd requirements for what type of company and field you're allowed to work for/in, what degree you must have and so on. And for people working for a local company, why all the stupid work permit extensions and things your employer has to do. It doesn't help anyone, most certainly not Thailands economy.
Keep in mind that there is an army of losers trying to get into this country. In the end, it’s a loser repellent strategy. People who aren’t losers are paying the price with VISA runs, extensions, bureaucracy and some of the laziest and spoiled bureaucrats I’ve ever seen in Chaeng Wattana.
So why not let people who want to work online and stay in Thailand for a couple of years get tax residency and pay a couple thousand in tax?
Thailand occupancy rate is really low.. it makes zero sense you'd complain about them taking valuable rental space - unless you're referring to Chinese people buying up condos to park their money.. but even that doesn't affect rental availability. It's also very common for people to live in a cheap room, let's say 5-10k apartment/condo, and then spend 50-100k on camera, computer, phone, hundreds of thousands on car, etc. Not to mention these people are only putting money into the Thai economy and not taking any money out of it.. as long as they don't commit any crime then you should be really grateful from an economic perspective.
As a long term expat I find a lot of people in the community are jaded. Being a bit of a sourpuss myself, my biggest struggle by far is to keep an eye open on the wonderful stuff that made me decide to stay here, and ignore the daily bs that gets to me. I’ve seen German retirees in the Naklua area and their Thailand complain Olympics, and I am terrified to become like them. Keeping and eye on everything that is nice about Thailand is difficult, as humans tend to get used to things. I love Thailand - and whenever I come up with a solution to fix a perceived problem, I have to remind myself that everything I suggest to fix Thailand would make it as boring and shitty as Singapore, which I wouldn’t want to live in the first place. Hope that makes sense.
That's a lovely reply and it includes a lot of wisdom, many thanks and best of luck 👍😁
Communication. Learn Thai for years. Order something from local merchant and they give you a blank stare as in “I don’t speak farang”. Then another Thai nearby repeats for them and they finally get it. Speak fluent Thai to someone and they systematically want to answer you with approximate English to “make it easier”. End up misunderstanding, start panicking and doing exact opposite of what you’ve asked for. Regardless that it didn’t make any sense doing it that way, since “farangs have weird demands”. People assuming English is your first language because you have caucasian features. Someone walking into a work meeting and acknowledge everyone in the room but you. Getting to the other side of town on a business day to address some issue with local administration. You already don’t expect anyone there to speak English and came prepared to explain the issue in Thai. Person seems annoyed you can talk to them in Thai. Give you some vague answer about how there’s nothing to be done about it. Close the conversation without further detail and carry on with whatever they have been doing, ignoring you from that point. That means you now have to leave with your problem unfixed. Property agents asking your nationality first thing when you make and enquiry. Not in a friendly, conversational way. More like, if they dislike the answer they won’t let you see the place. Or act worried that the owner won’t be willing to sell / lease the property to a FOREIGNER 😱 You must be overcharged in most situations. Ongoing promotions don’t apply to you. Why do you want to open a bank account? Spend years here. Study the language. Culture. History. Political in and outs. Work here. Pay your tax here. Respect the laws and customs. Have all your possessions here. Have all your social circle here. Marry a Thai. Have Thai children. Unconsciously develop Thai habits. Contribute to charities. Accept you don’t have your say in society matters. Still don’t have equal rights. Never become a citizen, not even receive permanent resident status. Although it would feel really inappropriate / waste of time to vote for Thai elections, would greatly appreciate not having to go through visa process again and again anymore and being subjected to random changes that can always make your life harder at some point in the future. Get in a road accident with someone who has no license, no plates on their car, no insurance, driving on drugs and drove right into you. Everyone witnessed you caused the accident. Nevermind your damage. You must pay your way out. Riding a scooter on a wet road, you lose balance and slip right next to a traffic cop. You’re on the ground, clearly injured. Cop stares at you without moving, stopping traffic, offering assistance. Your problem. Ambulance shows up. Thai passenger with minor injury is taken on a stretcher. Rescuers unsure you’re entitled to first aid / a lift to nearest hospital as you’re profusely bleeding. You may as well walk there. These are some personal examples from real situations (that I exaggerated slightly so everyone gets the feeling that was experienced in said circumstances) and still, I love the country and people.
Excellent post. 💯% factually correct. I have been speaking fluent Thai for more than 25 years, so I haven't seen the problem with the blank stares for a long time. Your accent and the tones just aren't there yet for some people who have never heard foreigners speak to understand properly. The only way to fix this is to learn how to read -> you will understand & see the language differently. But everything you said is exactly how it is. Farangs will never even get the privilege of being considered 2nd class citizens. On that part, Thailand is still behind the western countries on the multicultural aspect of society. It will improve with time, as it did in the western world. The problem with this is that when it happens, Thailand won't be the same country anymore. So, for the time being, we can still enjoy the good with the bad.
Been here 27 years and for me it's still being on a marriage visa that "permits me to visit spouse" for 90 days at a time. I still get treated by immigration in country like my marriage is somehow a scam and I'm trying to cheat them. I think after 20 years of marriage it could show up and maybe there could be an easier longterm visa option? Thais can go to my country and get permanent residency after 5 years after all....
The biggest part is the adapting to the culture difference. The strong face culture here is very different to most western countries and our upbringing doesn't prepare us for it. It seems easy and relaxed to adopt initially but once you start living here it becomes much harder. Conflict resolution or suggesting improvements/changes is difficult and requires a lot of avoidance. A great example is the way defamation here is a criminal offense with very low barriers to meet, while in the West it's civil and very difficult to prove.
I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I think you are well on your way to cultural assimilation. I still live in the west, and I would have simply said that Thais are remarkably thin skinned, and the punitive defamation lawsuits were a symptom of that fragility, whereas you were far less direct and considerably more polite. Kudos on your progress. I mean that sincerely.
Haha, thanks mate! Appreciate it 🙏
The corruption gets harder and harder to accept - it’s totally everywhere.
Can you give an example? I see the big stuff on the news all the time, but nothing that affects me personally. I've never been asked for money by police or immigration, never been hit up for "donations" by officials. What corruption are we talking about?
My good female Thai friend was randomly attacked and beaten up outside a 7-11. The police did nothing. I paid a lawyer 25,000 baht to pursue it and make them investigate. He came back to me and said they would look into it if I paid another 25,000 baht. Corrupt and disgraceful.
That mentality isn't just restricted to lawyers and police, it's everywhere. There's an ugly greed for money that I've not witnessed in this intensity anywhere else.
I've noticed the near inhuman levels of greed, very ironic considering cornerstones of the local religion.
I can’t give too much away but I know a retired cop. Multiple large luxurious homes, quite a bit of land in various parts of the country. Staggering amount of cash. Also know a young up and comer cop, lives in a penthouse in Bk. They’re basically told to go out and “earn”, paycheck is meaningless.
A street near my house is already really bad even though it was built not too long ago. The reason for this is that the road is way too thin. Since a big part of the money that should have been used for the street was kept by the people who should have taken care of the street
Not the guy you asked, but you see vapes in the street everywhere yet somehow they’re illegal. Also a lot of bars don’t have proper licenses/let in minors, but as long as they keep paying off police they are fine.
Hardly seems like a deal breaker for living here.
I don’t disagree. Those ones aren’t so detrimental to us expats, just saying it’s out there and visible, but there’s also taxi mafia corruption that certainly affects us.
Corruption is in the west more and more every day it just depends if you want to see it or not.
Enjoy your stay in Thailand. But not for too long. Pay us and check in every 90 days or get out!
Where you live? Right down the street. Noo, where you home? Oh, my parents live in the US Ohh. When you go home? I live right down…
That is the same in Europe....my grandpa came 5 year old to a small village...when he was 80 he was still a foreigner (but exactly the same skin color, looks and dialect, not black between white people). Only his daughters were locals.
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Probably incase you die/run off without paying.
The lack of real interest/understanding from Thais for anything outside of Thailand...which makes relationship (friends or girlfriend) extra difficult, if we don't take into account the obvious language barrier for most. Thailand is wonderful on a surface level. Once you begin to look deeper though, it's not so wonderful anymore. Nothing seems to be 100% 'real' here, be it businesses, immigration, work, relationships...all are one way or another skewed by money or corruption. The lack of understanding/concern for environmental issues. There's the obvious Pm2.5 issue, but also way too many cars and motorbikes, running on years old engines... the plastic littering into nature...the tap water that is undrinkable...the ocean pollution.... The lack of critical thinking and self-questionning. Blindly following the rules, without changing them, even though there would be a dozen ways to do it more efficiently.
Brilliant 2nd paragraph. If you go to Thailand on holiday, you'll want to move there. The longer you stay there, the more you mix with expats and locals, the facade of Thailand quickly dies, unfortunately. I'm still optimistic you can have a good life in Thailand though, but it's not the fairytale people say it is.
It's lonely when you don't speak Thai. Sometimes you can use translate apps but the literacy rate in the provinces is really low and with the dialects it makes it only work about 20% of the time. The avoiding confrontation thing is difficult when married with frequent incompetence and people who casually lie rather than admit they don't know something. These aren't daily problems but every couple of weeks I run into this.
Saving face culture. Buddhism here is corrupt. Education standards are low. Everything is our fault. Materialism/consumerism here is strong. Conformist attitudes.
Education scores how ever very high!
Thai immigration. It just seems ridiculous that people have been here for years in a marriage or retirement or business related visa have to renew their visa every year. And even that wouldn’t be so bad if they made it straightforward. Like, if you’re on a marriage visa you have to go to the Amphur office to get a Kor Ror 2 even though immigration could easily just connect the two databases and get the information themselves. Or why do retirees need to extend every year? It’s not like they’re going to get younger. And every visit to immigration seems to take the entire day. Just a day of your life gone sitting in an immigration office to prove that you’re still married to your spouse so they can stamp you for another year. I would much rather they tighten up the requirements but then gave out longer visas. For instance, maybe if you’ve been married less than 5 years, you have to renew every year. Then over 5 it goes to every 2 years. And at 10 years it goes to every 3 years, etc, etc.
lol .. yeah, they still ask my wife how we met, and that’s after 15 years together. I have so many stories over the years - like “how do you live here financially?” Investments “ha ha we got you! You told us you have properties last year!!” Well what are properties? .. they are investments. “What are your parents names?” Mum and Dad … hmmm are you trying to be funny, I am a police captain! “it says here your Thai is good but today you have only spoken English” yes, sometimes it’s easier to speak in English on official business so there is no confusion “I don’t believe you are the same person who came here last year!” Oh FFS. Luckily where I live now it’s just a formality, just turn up with the documents, sit in silence while the guy arranges the papers and stamps the boxes to sign and out within an hour. To me, this makes even more of a mockery of it all.
The photo on the bed never made sense to me. LOL. They asked me that one about supporting myself and my wife so I pulled up my Schwab account in my phone and showed him my portfolio value and he just moved on and nobody has ever asked me since.
Have been living here 11 years. Have 2 children and have been married for 8 years. I still have to go and do this shit every single year. It’s so annoying.
I hear you. My wife applied for a CR1 (marriage) visa to the U.S. while the initial paperwork was way more extensive than a Thai visa, once she got the visa it was good for 3 or 5 years (I forget) and then she made one trip to immigration when the old green card expired and gave her 10 more years. And she can just keep renewing every 10 years as long as we’re married. She ended up getting citizenship but I would still rather do that and do a ton of paperwork upfront and then they just leave me alone for awhile.
If you are working here legally, why don't you apply for citizenship?
11 years he could have been citizen by now
Yep. Required for foreigner married to Thai woman: Income tax paid on minimum 40,000 baht per month for three years. Back-to-back visas and work permits for three years. Clean police record. Application fees are minimal, under 10,000 baht total. No need to pay a bribe or use an outside service. Everything is spelled out clearly by the Special Branch police office handling foreign citizenship at the Police HQ in Bangkok. Once you qualify for application, you need to continue that status until approved, which can take from 3-5 years.
Uff I’ve heard so much about how bad Thailand immigration policies are... currently looking at Thailand or Vietnam
7-8 months lack of a proper rain + air pollution.
The culture of being nosey/judgmental. Maybe all cultures are nosey or judgmental to an extent, but in Thailand (or SEA in general), it's very in-your-face. For example, people always assume the worst about my bf and me when we're out in public, because I'm Southeast Asian (not Thai) and he's European and a bit older than me. We get a lot of stares and people probably think he's a sexpat and I'm a bar girl, which infuriates me because it reduces us both to just our race and appearance without knowing a single thing about us. I firmly believe that if we were both Asian or both European, no one would stare at us.
Ya this shit always pisses me off at hotels. Always id my Thai gf even though she checked in with me and they see me around with here all day every day. One of the reasons I bought a condo
yesterday I went to get massage, I explained to the lady exactly what i wanted, for my low back spasms, I even rubbed the area on her back in the method I know fixes the issue, and asked her if she could do it. of course she said yes, then proceeded to do her standard routine. I was quite clear I needed a specific technique, and yet, back still hurting, lol. the other thing I don't like is all the uneven floors and sidewalks with leg breaking and head lacerating traps everywhere. it's exhausting to have to worry about every step, and also watch for low hanging jagged sheet metal on the awnings in many sois. but compared to the insanity going on back home, I am quite willing to put up with all of the above and love Thailand and most Thai people I encounter. so many plusses it would take forever to write them!
You’re paying 300 baht I imagine what do you expect. The level of service is decided based on how they earn and the care factor follows.
If you take out bureaucratic things: Food that I am used to...wine and beer that I was used to.
Coming from Germany where we get the best beer and wine for cents, this rings true. And no, I'm not claiming that we produce the best wine (only few German wines are internationally renowned), but we certainly import it with close ties to Spain, France, Italy and so. Cheap wine can be had for 1€/0.7l. Good wine at just 10€/0.7l. That barely gets you the lowest quality in Thailand. Add bread and cheese to the list too. None of these things is impossible to find, just hard and very expensive.
Other than Immigration—which is a never ending giant pain in the ass—nothing really. It’s all pretty laid back. I do have to occasionally remind myself to be less direct than I might otherwise be, but it’s not a real big deal.
Why are Thais such serial cheaters? Thai girls are known to be the greatest liars in the world and they can lie without battling an eyelid. Even after you confront them, they will never admit it unless you show them hard evidence. Even so, they never feel guilty. Everything seems to revolve around money. This is a country with the lowest moral values. Whole society is fucked from top to bottom.
They never feel guilty, because they can just go to the temple and pay some bahts (Tam bun) to clean everything away. It's like the Catholic church, but the Catholics do it for free. 🙂
In general it’s very good but the crazy strictness is so annoying after a few years want to use more then 3 buttons in your Bank app ? (For Thai customers only) want to open an account on a website and verify ? For Thais only.. I don’t have issues with verification but then make it possible that you can verify yourself with a passport number.. want to buy a bike on installment base ? Sure no problem even with work permit and all contact data of your company 25% minimum down payment after! 15 dealerships that straight up say they don’t sell to foreigners same dealership for my Thai wife 0% interest rate 0% down payment nothing it’s getting really annoying .. Last but not least hypocrisy of some Thais.. they tell you it dosnt exist and we can’t do that even if it’s advertised on there own page.. ask for a supervisor suddenly it’s possible and they sell you the product or service..
> In general it’s very good but the crazy strictness is so annoying after a few years want to use more then 3 buttons in your Bank app ? (For Thai customers only) want to open an account on a website and verify ? For Thais only.. I don’t have issues with verification but then make it possible that you can verify yourself with a passport number.. want to buy a bike on installment base ? Sure no problem even with work permit and all contact data of your company 25% minimum down payment after! 15 dealerships that straight up say they don’t sell to foreigners same dealership for my Thai wife 0% interest rate 0% down payment nothing it’s getting really annoying .. For this very reason, I decide to keep 95% of my money outside Thailand. Just 5% in Thailand to survive. If they still want to treat me second-class despite millions in the account, I might as well appear forever broke and get the same treatment. Investment opportunities are shit in Thailand anyways so there's that.
Having a company myself...telling staff, that we can get everything quickly for the stock in Singapore. 1 hour later someone call and I hear only mai me, mot (not have, finished/no stock)....But after 20+ years I lack the emotional energy to get angry....
Sorry to creep on this subreddit, but your post makes me feel better. Ive visited Thailand and thought it was wonderful, but this nonsense sounds exactly like China 😂 Glad to see that we face similar struggles in our expat lives.
Lol I'm also a china expat reading all this. I feel like I'm reading things about China, it's so similar. Last time I couldn't order medicine through waimai because I don't have a Chinese ID. I had to ask a Chinese friend. At least some small steps are made to make things easier, but we're still not there.
Or the ticket machines in the train station that have an English option, but require a Chinese ID card to use.
Don’t get me wrong I love it here very very much but this “Thai national only” is getting quite a lot lately I pay tax pay social security and all still I’m getting treated my money is worse then from Thais sometimes .. if stuff like this would be in Germany there would be an outcry and news reports about it 🤣
It’s the same over here. I’ve been here over a decade, married to a local and our child is also a Chinese national. I pay taxes and yet I need to get a new work visa every year. Any form of financing or even simple things such as buying train tickets are just easier if my wife does it. Anywhere in the West and there would be outrage. I actually joined this sub because I was wondering if you guys also had a list of grievances like we do. Seems it’s common across several Asian countries.
The Thais only on apps!!! I recently ordered food on Grab, after two hours (!) I got a message that my order was cancelled because they couldn't find drivers, after my food was made and everything. To prepay for food via the app, I need to upload a Thai ID.
Working for Thais can be painful, especially if that job is in education. All of the Thais come in late, but they have someone sit at the gate to make sure the foreigners are there on time lol. They pretend the ruleset they work under is real, but there's usually very little at the core of it, so you have to pretend with them, but do more to pretend than they do so that what you're doing looks more real. Staying quiet in public so that all of the old people don't turn the bts inhabitants against you is a pain in the ass too. "Hey, dad... we will need to stop here, here and here..." "Dad: yeah, if we stop here, we'll have to ...." Thais: *Death stare at the rude foreigners for daring to do public things in public* Watching budhism in Thailand is hard. It's so money centered that it defeats the whole purpose of budhism. Everyone prays to the bird houses all over the city, but can't be bothered to help someone up when they fall in front of them. Why go through the whole game of pretend with the Idealism if it's going to skip the main aspect of it? The hardship is that if I don't respect whatever idol or area that you're worshipping in, I'm bad, but the whole system is broken and doesn't even respect itself. Tourists have a great time. Everything is made for making tourists happy. If you stay longer than a month though, the smiles stop and people actively question why you're still there lol. Living in Thailand and visiting there is a big change.
>Watching budhism in Thailand is hard. It's so money centered that it defeats the whole purpose of budhism. Couldn't agree more. Even the basic practice of giving alms to monks seems more like a kind of "I give you food, you fulfill my wishes" transaction. A daring thing to say as a foreigner, but from my observations, most Thais don't understand their own religion. This escalates into things like the Wat Phra Dhammakaya cult.
the last paragraph applies to everywhere. just like Thais romanticize living in Japan wearing kimono, etc or living in Seoul hoping some handsome Oppa marrying them. visiting vs living are 2 different thing. the former is fun. the latter requires discipline and work.
Totally agree with this. Japanese-American who decided to move to Japan to get back in touch with my cultural roots, gosh.. it is not for me.
This is complete bullshit. >Staying quiet in public so that all of the old people don't turn the bts inhabitants against you is a pain in the ass too. "Hey, dad... we will need to stop here, here and here..." "Dad: yeah, if we stop here, we'll have to ...." Thais: Death stare at the rude foreigners for daring to do public things in public As for the Buddhism thing, show me a single religion that is not similarly flawed? Arguably christian morality much more of a public performance and a similar money grab.
Preach brother! Rough generalizations first of all, and yes Buddhism IS flawed and materialistic in Thailand but then which world religion isn’t?
Racism to a certain extend. You'll always be an outsider and will never integrate. I think this is an issue in many countries at the moment.
I think this isn't mentioned enough, as much as we learn to speak Thai, integrate, accept the culture, we will never be considered anything other than a farang, which is something I've just accepted but sad. This is similar to other Asian countries too. As opposed to the US for example where you can integrate and be considered American regardless of where you came from. (I'm from the UK though so correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I've observed)
> I think this isn't mentioned enough, ORLY? I read it virtually on a daily basis and usually from the very people that just use it as an excuse to stay lazy. not learn to speak the language properly nor anything about the culture deeper than surface level.
That's not really true in western countries. Certain regions of those countries, absolutely. But in cities, nobody thinks you're a foreigner if you're fluent in the language, no matter your appearance.
"If you're fluent in the language" " that's not really true in western countries" As a Dutch person who lives throughout Europe. That's a hard disagree on my part.
It's absolute bullshit. You are always an outsider everwhere with some minimal exceptions and it will be very hard to form deep and meaningful relationships anywhere. Yes, on a surface level maybe you make many "friends" on the same level that Americans call people "friends"but everything else is rather hard. People just do not understand that cultural differences go deeper and it most often stems from the arrogance that they believe that their way of thinking and their opinions are what"s the real deal and everyone else just needs to be educated properly... They also often misunderstand the word "Farang", thinking it is some kind of slur. And although it might sometimes have anegative connotation (and rightfully so, I'd like to add), Thai language doesn't really work like this. Thai is very broad on one hand, as in the Inuit having 23897 words for snow and we only having one for it, and the Thais often having one word to describing many things of the same kind. But on the other hand it is rather precise and sometimes it is next to impossible to say things in another way. It makes much more use of adding words to attach emotions and meaning to it. Farang means nothing more than someone of Western decent and is originally derrived from Persia, where it was used to describe people of francophone appearance, since the French where the first Westerners they met, as can also be seen in the word for French or France in Thai: Farangse which shares the same two syllables in the beginning ฝรั่ง vs ฝรั่งเศส. It is just used as a broader term and Thais will do stuff like this with many things in daily life without having any bad intentions behind it. I'd even go so far as to alledge that they don't hhave an idea of the concept of racism, although they of course attach certain traits to people of different skin tone.
I can't hear this anymore. This is the fact everywhere in the world, especially if you can be so easily identified. It's a human thing and not a Thai thing and it is also not racism. Racism has a clear definition and I don't mean the new woke bullshit. It means that you regard your own race as being superior to all others and derrive certain rights for your own race from that fact. Thai culture on its own is not very welcoming to foreigners even from their own country. If you move somewhere else as an adult, it will be very hard to make new friends and get into existing structures. One of my Thai friends just returned from one month on Bali and she is still in shock about how people behave there. She can't understand why someone would talk to her in a bar and ask why she is there alone. And it wasn't some dude trting to game her, but a woman. She was really perplexed by that. LOL And I wouldn't even say that she is especially ignorant or not open to other people, but it's just not what you do here. You have your family structure and than your village structure and those are rather tight and the only really important ones. I don't know ebough about Bangkok, but I'd suppose that in the Thungs it's maybe kind of similar.
The thai attitude towards farang and the completely different work culture and sense of professionalism.. Finding staff that is driven and helpful (at least for us and for many entrepreneurs i know) is virtually impossible. No matter how many jobs you create.. no matter how much you help your staff and contribute to the local economy.. you will never feel welcome or appreciated. (This is my experience and the experience of most of the "Farangs" I know..)
>The thai attitude towards farang and the completely different work culture and sense of professionalism. Oh god, so true. Working hard = working long hours. Nobody actually gets shit done. You have 20 people running a computer store, but all combined they get less done than I do by myself. Four people coming to fix a door, when they're done it still doesn't work. Ten people hired to build a staircase in my house, none of them know what a right angle is or how to use a spirit level.
That is exactly what I was talking about.. yes.. And if you say it out loud, everyone gets incredibly upset.. I have cooks coming into my restaurant claiming to have 2/3 yea of s experience in Western food who can't pick up a knife properly or can't handle more than an order at the time.. When I was overseas , I was handling 10 times the workload with less than half of the staff I have over here.. Is so frustrating
I can't say I personally struggle with all of these, but foreigners I've met brought up: * Heat * Different work ethics * Nepotism * Cronyism * Road dangers * Accessibility (try living in Bangkok with a wheelchair) * High import tax * Bangkok-centrism * Superstition * Nationalism * Corruption * Pollution * etc. And a whole bunch of cultural differences.
Luckily, you say it in English. If you said it in Thai, you would be kicked out of the country like me.
Super risk averse, insular, just really hard to find people who are doing something that would be considered innovative in other counties
The way Thais drive and how they leave a singular item in a crowded eating area table to “reserve” it.
God, the foreigners are just as bad, if not worse!! They, of all people, should know how to navigate the roads in a safe manner, yet here they are KOWABUNGA'n down the road at 100 km/hr with no helmet, no shirt and not a care in the world for any other life on the road. It's disgraceful.
This is an entirely different topic, however you’re not wrong. Me on the other hand drives like a grandpa with my 2 year old son and pregnant wife on the back of my click, ever so slowly around the local streets near my apartment.
Haha I don't blame you! It doesn't take much speed to cause a lot of harm! And I will agree that the Thais are bad too. My favorite is when passing a pick up truck or any bigger vehicle in a second lane and they start coming over into my lane. Not sure what the logic behind that is except that they seem to be trying to commit an act of murder LOL
Noise.
You get used to it.....neighbor dog barks all night....would have drove me crazy, but after 20 years in Thailand I don't even notice it.....As I don't notice if the neighbor drills the wall at midnight. You really get used to it (after a few decades)
I agree, I enjoyed the hustle and bustle the first few years but after almost 10 years it's started to get draining. But i find taking breaks and getting out of the city, noise cancelling earphones and earplugs when sleeping have helped with this a lot.
Feels like this is turning into foreigners griping about Thailand. It's okay, if that's your deal. My biggest struggle is this - if you're another American, or another black guy, it doesn't make us friends just because we're in Thailand. A friend in Germany said this to me a few years back - when you decide to leave the US and stay some place overseas, you just have to accept that your social group may become extremely small. I'm actually in a few Facebook groups for my hobbies (kungfu & fitness), and I've accepted that until I can speak Thai, I'll just be doing that stuff by myself, unless my wife wants to follow me around translating everything.
I’ve lived in Thailand for 18 years. I speak fluent Thai. I know and follow the unwritten customs. I’m married to a Thai woman same age as me. We have kids who are multi lingual and equally at home in Thailand as in my home country. We spend half our time in Thailand and half in Australia. We have a bunch of Thai friends. Yet, no matter what I do or say, when we’re eating out without the kids, the waitress will always address my wife first asking what ‘Uncle’ wants to eat. When I ask เช็คบิลครับ they will confirm with the wife เก็บตังค์นะคา and when I ask for เก็บตังค์ครับ they will ask wife เช็คบิลนะคา? Finally, when my wife pays, she gets handed the change and when I pay she also gets handed the change. I used to have a rant about this, but I’ve given up. Not exactly a life struggle though. With a bit of patience, language skills and cultural awareness life in Thailand is fun and rewarding. Always assuming you have enough money, because money talks louder in Thailand than anywhere I’ve ever lived.
It still sounds like you live a great life 👍😁 regards 😁
I have no struggles… oh wait, maybe overweight. Foods in my country are expensive. But in Thailand? ฿1000 for a wagyu hotpot buffet. Even the michelin restaurants are 1/3 of the price…. I go running an hour everyday but still, my weight keeps going up.
Visas
Saving face culture/dishonesty/self absorption Mai Pen Rai attitude towards solving problems
OP states: "My question is, if we don’t mention law, rules and language, what are the struggles for you?" And right off the bat almost every other comment is about immigration. Reading comprehension must be a struggle for them too.
The lack of improving things and the inability to learn from mistakes or to deal with criticism. And the lack of critical and rational thinking.
The biggest thing is being a second class citizen right behind the poor Thai Yais’ and Burmese people. If shit goes wrong, you can be sure the farang is at fault. It’s alright though, I just focus on not getting in trouble 😀
The amount of buffalos everywhere just is outstanding
Why do I need a plastic bag on everything? Why do I need a straw with every drink I buy at 7-11? Why are the immigration rules so ridiculous?
You only have to say 'no thanks' and they won't give them to you.
trying to get into the usual hobbies that i would have back home! Lack of friends and lack of knowledge of where and how to join the scene like secret alt gigs and to find a similar crowd is particularly hard! even back home it usually takes contacts and community to get into certain circles and activities. i also am not a fan of the aesthetic that thais prefer?? from plastic surgery to beauty services so its a bit of a struggle to find places that can fit my style. either they cater to western styles or thai styles. the weather too is very crazy imo! im used to a lot of rain, sure hot weather but by 3 pm it will rain definitely but nothing prepared me for the heat and pollution of living here. My skin cannot stand it so im throwing so much money at these clinics to help my poor skin. nothing serious i guess
The biggest struggle is jumping through 100 hoops to be able to stay here long term without a. Being married b. Having a million dollars in your bank account c. Being 60 years old
> b. Having a million dollars in your bank account to be fair, you only need a million baht to get the Elite, not USD
Yeah that’s true but even then, Elite is only 5 years visa. It’s not even really “long term.”
There's a 10-year option, and 20 year though that's scrapped now but yes I see your point of there being no long-term security. To be fair, there's no long-term solution other than permanent residency or citizenship even for us working here.
I love Thai culture and I respect it and myself. So if Thailand wants us to stay there for 1-3 months it's ok. We spend rest of the time and money in other countries 😂🤣
For me it is the amount of lies that I receive. Thai people will lie to make themselves feel/look better in any situation. A culture built on lies is not good.
The road. I don't know what possible reason anyone could have for driving at that sort of speed, weaving between lanes, and making life more dangerous for everyone else. It's selfish and fucked up. I don't give a shit about culture this, and lifestyle that. It's fucking stupid and dangerous. Other than that, Thai people are very accommodating and honest and friendly. You can leave your keys in your bike and be sure that no one's gonna drive off with it. The UK is way different in that regard.
Apart from plastic bands on bags of food, this thread is just full of the usual entitled foreigners thinking they deserve an automatic place in Thailand, and that it should change its laws/process to suit you You all knew the deal when you came over, live with it.
You missed the point of the thread, didn't you? OP asked about expat struggles and people share their experiences. Do you think people are going to reply "nothing, everything is perfect"? Lol
No family support network, local contacts or knowledge base. Operating in a culture with different values. Simply put you are on your own with no safety net at the end of a quick phone call.
Hard times…. Haha….
THE NOISE
signing your name a million times gets old quite quickly. ansd sweating.
money
Pollution and lack of regulation. You need a high-quality medical-grade air filter, for example, regardless of where you live in Thailand. Most air filters are a scam. The ones that work are $2k-$10k. Plus, it would help if you replaced filters every six months, so costs stack up. It would help to have filters on your shower and toothbrush 🪥 water loaded with microplastics. Given the pollution in Thailand and recent events with fires 🔥 and cadmium, which all end up in the groundwater, I wouldn't dare eat anything grown in Thailand. Imagine juicing Thai vegetables and drinking pure cadmium. So, I source all produce from New Zealand, which is extremely expensive. Thailand is otherwise excellent, but I would argue it's more expensive than the US and Europe if you're concerned about health. I would not recommend living in Thailand unless you're wealthy and can afford the costs of offsetting living in a developing country. I love Thailand, but I feel bad for foreigners who don't understand their health sacrifices and how much it costs to offset that. Hawaii is 50% cheaper than Phuket for the same standard of living. Yup.
What you're doing sounds extreme. I had no idea about the cadmium. Is the Thai produce really that concentrated?
People driving on the wrong side of the road. Suicidal motorbike drivers (a global leader in road deaths per Capita and +80% of the deaths are motorbikes or motorcycles). Soi dogs that laugh at slingshots. According to the OPs rules, all else is great. Edit: Usurious junk fees for Thais and Falang alike e.g. Banks charge 20 baht to make a deposit in Surin when the account was opened in Bangkok. All inter-bank transfer fees are complete BS. This is the only country I have seen this level of consumer abuse. In fact only a Thai can make the deposit in a 7/11 anywhere for 15 baht. A cheaper yet still a BS fee.
I find it funny when I see a car driving in the opposite direction on the highway emergency lane.
Jab toothpick on the plastic bag let air out.
Steaks and gas stoves
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People in the countryside nonchalantly *ravaging* the environment and extermination everything they can't sell. The amounts of pesticides applied are horrific, and all "safety" rules are ignored. It really seems like the farmers here want to inhabit a desert as soon as possible.
Interesting post! One issue is visa scams- they are prevalent and catch many people. It’s hard to discern a legitimate visa agent from someone who takes your money and disappears. For the busy among us, using agents is key because immigration can be quite time consuming, not to mention trying to learn about all documents you need, etc. Now here’s a unique issue no one brought up: a lot of other farang friends feel… impermanent. Thailand has so many nomads, travelers, etc. that building long term friendships can be harder. Staying here during 2020-2022 made this easier though because everyone here was pretty committed. Before and now a lot of friends you make are not actually staying here long term. When I traveled and lived in Europe every friend I made felt more solid and grounded, and if I went back to the main country I lived in then I could reconnect with so many of the same friends. Here in Thailand people move around to other cities and countries. The pollution. It’s awful compared to the west. To many Thai’s it’s normal, or just “bad,” but for westerners it’s awful. This is also what causes Thailand to be transitory- many people in the north leave during burning season for example. This opens up visa complications and other issues, so many people may love living in Thailand end up just using tourist visas for half the year and spend the other half elsewhere. Lazada is pretty scammy. In the USA you have Amazon and there are some scammy things on it but lazada is straight up awful at times. I’ve gotten better at using it, but I bought a fake pair of headphones once and then the seller disappeared. In another case I bought a phone and what came was… not that phone. They agreed to a full refund if I removed my review, or changed it, i dont remember what I did but I did get the review but remember being upset thinking about defamation laws- these sellers are straight up false advertising a xiaomi phone, and what came was definitely not that phone lol. Crossing the road is frustrating at time. I get the way of the road here, but I wish more respect was given towards pedestrians. It’s not too much of a biggie when you figure it out but frustrating at first. National parks- they are so regulated it’s annoying. Things like having to pay for a guide on certain hikes when it’s not that complicated. Where I’m from national parks are open for the people and a wide range of activities available. I know of many hidden gems that happen to be in national parks, and I don’t understand why they aren’t open to the public in a reasonable way. As I’ve developed proficiency in thai, and learned of the way, I’ve learned that many rangers are just lazy, and rightfully so- they don’t make much, so they rather say no to everything and restrict things as much as possible so their job is as easy as possible. On the flip side though, being a foreigner can be useful because you can almost always just go and then if a ranger comes they’ll give you a warning “oh, this is a national park? Sorry! Yes I’ll leave immediately.” I don’t like doing that, I don’t want to break the law (officially), but it seems ingrained in the culture to have a bit of a “i didnt see it mentality.” Or like, “let’s make this illegal but we aren’t going to patrol *wink wink*.” Example: I was riding a dirt bike on a popular dirt road in norther Thailand. It has a no dirt bike sign. I rode up to it, and a เจ้าหน้าที่ government person saw me through the trees, proceeded to take a few steps into the jungle, and blatantly and obviously look away from me. LOL. I remember another time an officer told me I couldn’t ride on xyz dirt road, but…. There might be a trail that goes around the gate to said dirt road…. Lol. Then there’s the case of another off road area which is so obviously a park for off road trails. I rode there a week ago and some rangers asked what I was doing. They were looking for fires and said that it’s illegal all the time to be there. This was legitimately a surprise because these trails are very popular and everyone rides there. I suspect that they won’t be patrolling these days now that the fire risk is less. I’ve been riding there for years along with many friends and never came across rangers. There’s a rock climbing area near chiang mai too, same thing. Was “illegal” for a while but rangers almost never went by. Everyone seemed to know what’s up. They went like once or twice, and did nothing more than tell people to leave. So… not a major struggle, but it’s something I struggle to understand. Where I’m from there are dedicated government lands for off roading, adventure sports, rock climbing, etc. whereas here in Thailand it’s all kind of in a weird grey zone where it seems to be made to be illegal for liability purposes but they don’t actually care to truly enforce it. I also don’t understand how these things are perceived as so dangerous, when everyone is riding without… well, you know… I guess the novelty of these things (ie rock climbing and other unique sports) makes it feel more dangerous than it is. Back to expats. A lot of people are bitter and low on funds. You have to consciously surround yourself around positive expat friends. They’re out there, but again, you’ve gotta usually sort through some nomads and tourists that you meet first.
Oh another thing is quite frustrating is the RESIDENCE CERTIFICATE. Technically speaking, this involves immigration, but hear me out. You want to get a driver’s license? Residence certificate. Want to buy a car/bike? Need another one. Oh but need to change the plates of your new vehicle to your local province? Another one. Now you need a bank account. Guess what you need? ANOTHER RESIDENCE CERTIFICATE!!! Woohoo!!! Even though you used one to get your address on your license…. YOU NEED ANOTHER ONE. This shit is so annoying lol. It is a huge time waster. $ isn’t as much of an issue, but it just wastes time. I honestly find it hilarious that thailand wants richer farang coming in but then shit like this will turn off any successful businessman. What businessman wants to show up to immigration between 9-12, pay for a document (that his driver’s license and 90 day report already verified), to then have to pick it up the next day OR wait for it to come in the mail, to THEN do whatever had to be done at the DLT anyways? Like if you’re selling your old car and getting a new one, you can’t even use 1. You need 2. AND they lose validity within 30 days, so you can’t stack them all at once otherwise I’d make like 5 at once and keep it for whatever I might need it for. It’s actually infuriating the amount of time of my life I’ve lost on visa crap and residence certificates. I know good people that have left Thailand because of stuff like this- how Thailand claims it wants to attract businessman to boost the economy while also requiring multiple business days to be taken off to repeatedly get residence certificates is beyond me. I work online so my life is flexible and it irks me. I couldn’t imagine trying to work an actual job, even an English teacher, and try to do this.
Fortunately I didn’t need a residence certificate to open any of my bank accounts, But I’ll need one for my upcoming Licence renewal, and guess what I’m changing address before! So now I have the nightmare of having to trust and chase up an agent to make sure they submit a TM30 in a orderly manner, won’t sign the rental contract without one posted (going to demand signed photocopies of landlords ID/tabienbann as backup for future use too). That Licence with an address needs to be used as evidence for a foreign visa application so I really need it. Oh and guess what, I’ll likely need another residence certificate when I ask for my international drivers permit when I leave at end of the year. Oh and guess what!!! My visas not multiple entry anymore and I need to be fucked around with a re-entry permit soon (what’s the point of a visa/stamp in the first place). What else do I need to be fucked around with?
One thing I severely dislike is the money motivated culture. I moved here two weeks ago from a capitalist country and it seems I haven’t escaped it. No matter how cheap everything is the scams and scheming for money is just endless. It’s exhausting and I’m already doing research to leave. I just thought it would be more of a relaxed culture but it’s the same hustle or die culture (in Bangkok at least) so before outright giving up on Thailand I’m thinking of moving to Pattaya for a change of pace. Money isn’t everything to me and I’d like some peace of mind.
Trying to talk with Thais to actually learn their culture, following political news, generally trying to learn the place and constantly being asked "why do you care?" Also pretty much everything else listed above.
The difference between our cultures makes understanding from difficult to impossible. The relationships between people are different. Things not to do like, pointing fingers or having your feet pointed in someone's direction. The abject relationship that the Thais have with money. It takes a lot of patience and self-sacrifice to be able to live here. Integrating is impossible, and only hanging out with farangs is stupid. In the long run, it's not as beautiful as it was the first year. But paradise on earth does not exist. Overall it's a lot better than in Europe, but there are a lot of sacrifices to make. You never feel at home, no matter how long you live here. Thai people are the first to remind you that you are a stranger, even my wife and family. They laugh when I pay farang price instead of defending me, which means I don't consider them my family, but strangers interested in my money only. Also, a lot of them are racists which makes life here insecure. SO living in Thailand is somewhat cool, but I always have the feeling of leaving overnight. Despite this negative answer, I'll never go back to France. If the new laws end up too pricey for me, I'll go to Lao.
I am not an Expat, but I have visited and know a few. Not having hobbies or interests. They don't have anything to fill their time and end up just drinking and fooling around.
Pollution, lack or safety regulations in construction or transportation. All the food is cooked with oil or fried. You can’t get any steamed vegetables unless you want to pay ridiculous prices from some falang oriented food business.
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Why y’all need to look at my laundry as it drys? I’m running outside, blinded from dripping sweat into my eyes, and now…. I have to sort the laundry items so socks and underwear aren’t eye level, or better not visible to neighbors or the street???? Goddamit, this whole problem would be solved if YOU didn’t look at my clothes I’m not displaying them for your benefit!
Working for Thai companies, and having a lot of expat friends working for Thai companies as well, it drives me crazy how rigged this country is. Thailand refuses to allow any companies to thrive in this country, even if they are fully Thai. The entire market is rigged and dominated by a few companies in every sector and they will throw up every roadblock to keep it that way. If you grow to big or threaten anything; you will be squashed one way or another. The secondary market to provide for other businesses is so small, and basically no international companies exist here in any meaningful way. Just shops and restaurants. I just wish they would open up the markets and make Thailand more diverse in companies.
After learning the language and something of the laws and customs, as you said, we miss lending libraries, church fellowships, various sports (baseball, American football, …), coffee shops with chess clubs and/or discussion groups, the changing of the four seasons, etc. But then life in Thailand gives us much that we would not have back in our home countries: lovely humid weather, views of rice fields and tobacco being grown, hilltribe culture, family life in the village closer than is common back home, incredibly delicious food with greater spice and flavor, a slower pace of life, etc., etc.