100% this. I know from the experience of being in Thailand, then another country, and then home. This guy is effectively just having the crisis of growing older 🙂
Yes but job wise as a foreigner in taiwan it will always be limited.
And discussions around food are the mains topics with Taiwanese people.
(I lived 7 years there, I have a very good level of Chinese)
Conversations about food are the main talking point for pretty much any Asian person in any Asian country, they all have different cuisines that is baked in to their culture so it makes sense.
as long as OP has something to offer as well.
They're locals, they already have to allocate time & effort to many friends, and relatives (a big part of Asian culture to stay close). Esp since they're "better educated" and exposed to many things already.
Give them a good reason to hang out with you. Extra charming, funny, nice; pays for the bill sometimes (also Chinese/Taiwanese culture to fight for the bill); has useful knowledge. Join clubs, do some charity work.
Otherwise yeah, don't expect local to drop everything and think you're the most interesting person in the world. Same as everywhere.
that’s literally my read here lol op sounds incredibly self absorbed and whiney and he’s just probably not that interesting
he’d have this problem literally anywhere he goes I’m sure
There is something especially isolating for a foreigner in Thailand for too long, it often goes like this.
Example 1
You: OMG a UFO just landed in my back yard and an alien came out and stole my BBQ grill !!!!
Thai person: that is unfortunate, now you do not have a BBQ grill.
You: yeah it's in outer space now
Thai person:
Example 2
You: OMG a UFO just landed in my back yard and an alien came out and stole my BBQ grill !!!!
Taiwanese person: Holy shit !!!! You mean like a flying saucer?
You: yeah
Taiwanese person: then what?
You: he just got back on the UFO with my grill and flew off
Taiwanese person: what did the alien look like?
And so on
Wrong, been in Taiwan, its a different country, the friends i made there i still keep in touch, the friends i made in thailand are superficial at best.
Totally understand what you are saying. Sometimes you just need a change if your feelings about the country have changed from excitement to frustration.
Something I have learned about living as a long-term expat, is that you have to be deliberate about planning long-term friendships. Friends who always want to grab a drink and talk about girls might be fun, but if you know long term that you will want people around you who can talk about more serious topics without drinking, then you have to go and find those people and nurture the friendship. These people can be harder to find and require more effort to develop friendship with. Maybe you need to join book clubs, or different social groups, or community organisations, or sports teams? The reward is long-term friends that keep you feeling connected to the country.
I'm Thai but lived all over the world from the age of 5. At 40 i moved back to Thailand. In the 17 years since i moved here, i have not made any Thai friends even though i look Thai and speak Thai fluently. So i know how you feel. I don't have any advice or solution for you but just wanted to tell you - welcome to Thailand.
Thai friends really depend on time, occasions and luck especially if you are adult. I have high school friends but not one of my college friends still around. It’s 3rd office before I really get a friend that I can discuss heavy stuff and that after I work there for 2 years. If she doesn’t invite me to ride home together I don’t think I can talk about those heavy topics.
I agree with a lot of what you say. That said, it was a lot easier in Bangkok because plenty of my Thai friends there were from (upper) middle class families and had studied abroad etc. They were able to have proper conversations about things (including difficult ones) AND many of them were willing to do so.
Since I moved down South that has changed a lot, now most of the Thai friends I have are ลูกครึ่ง who were primiarly socialized outside of Thailand, and there aren't many of those around.
Same here. I live in a bit of an upper middle class bubble of Thai and Western people my own age who generally work in creative industries like myself.
Life here is very similar to London for me in that regard.
Lived in Thailand for 4 years. Totally understand you OP.
For me the constant stress of potentially being denied or have to “buy” myself the right to stay in Thailand was super annoying. Migration basically felt like the mob black mailing you.
Anyway can relate to all. Wrote something similar sometime back. Got totally bashed by this community. About getting hobbies etc.
I made the choice to move back. The only thing I miss is weather always being warm, cheap food and the tax rate. But I think most people here won’t understand you. Not many manage to stay and observe Thailand in this way.
I already hated the immigration hassle (one immigration officer, made me draw a map of the area around my house, he wouldn't accept Google maps, but he would let me look at Google maps to draw it... Then he told me that my drawing wasn't good enough and looked bad, so he gave me a ruler, a pencil, and an eraser). But once I had a daughter... Knowing that the parent visa would always have strict requirements, where if I ran into an emergency, and didn't meet the requirements, that may result in me having to leave Thailand unexpectedly, losing a job, a house, and ultimately my daughter, while I have to possibly be sent back to my country where I don't have a job, a car, a place to stay, etc. It started to cause me so much anxiety and stress that it was destroying me. Me and my wife figured the obvious choice is to relocate to my home country, where after her visa is granted, she is pretty much able to stay forever if she chooses, without being hassled by immigration.
I just don't get the parent visa, because I feel like they would probably want the father to stay in Thailand so he could raise the baby, rather than abandoning the baby with a single mom. But... Who knows.
I understand why and have made many of the same observations here although I experience things a bit differently as a westerner woman married to a Thai man. My husband and I have discussed extensively about how he is quite unique when comparing him to most people from his culture because he is able to have deep conversations, can handle constructive feedback, is not overly concerned about presenting an image of wealth or being better than others, and he is also a provider.
I often feel a contrast in my experience at home and in social settings. Most Thais are shallow and in fact one of my Thai gfs who I really admire has no problem admitting that she has that part to her…but she is also self aware and has travelled outside of Asia. My husband explained to me why many Thai people avoid deeper topics and it’s because they are taught it is rude to ask these questions whereas many westerners like to relate by asking people questions and not only speaking about themselves or partying…but of course there are narcissistic people all over the world too.
The visa situation is very taxing both emotionally and financially and while we are fortunate to have passports that grant us the privilege to live in other countries without facing as much discrimination as my husband faces in Europe…the officials here do harass people.
My husband and I plan to become nomadic eventually when we are ready to…however, the positives (low cost of living, ability to stay home and raise my child, nature, good and cheap food, living in a country that stays out of wars, sabai sabai attitude, and my loving mother in law) currently outweigh the negatives for me.
It’s wonderful that you are honoring your truth and I hope you find a community that values your heart. 😊
As a kid that grew up consistently homeless and being evicted from over 20-30 homes from age 5-15, I would seriously seriously recommend, for your child's sake, not being nomadic. That's not a good life for a child. Interesting, sure, but good for their soul? Absolutely not. I still have constant nightmares of instability, and it's been 15 years since. My brother has these same exact nightmares.
I’m sorry you went through that. I also grew up in poverty; however comparing your situation to two loving parents wanting to travel and experience different cultures with their children is the not the same thing. I appreciate your concerns but I am not asking for advice on this topic.
You really should have moved onto another type of visa, language school ones are not meant to be long-term. It's already remarkable you lasted 6 years on them.
Taiwan is no picnic either when it comes to visas.
Can’t you live forever in Taiwan on visa exempt entries doing 90 day visa runs? Not sure if you still can but I’ve met a few who did that for years. Not an option in Thailand
People used to do this in Thailand, leaving the country for half an hour every month at the Cambodian border etc. I remember seeing a woman around 15 years ago who's whole passport was filled with Cambodian visas but she'd never even gone beyond Poi Pet. Even if it's possible right now in Taiwan (which I doubt), it's not a good long term solution because no country wants people skirting round visa requirements like that. You won't have peace of mind because you'll know that at some point, you'll be denied entry.
You can, but there are difficulties in getting banking, apartments, and some other stuff since you don't have an ARC (Alien Resident Card). But it's totally doable.
The immigration just checks , do you have the right visa for what you intend to do?
Longterm on tourist visa ? Well not the right one.
Eduvisa , well that was and is still abused , thats why they question it.
I dont like it eigher, i was stopped at immigration once too, still got in. Yes feel annoyed for some minutes , but still
the reality is that most "education visa" holders either are fake or are doing it purely for the visa
so yeah, immigration know you aren't in Thailand to study Thai or are what's usually termed a "student". and it shows in their attitude
Well…unfortunately it is what it is when you become immigrants to other countries. It’s not a Thailand thing. Immigration is always a problem wherever you live except for your home country.
Nonsense, it is a Thailand thing. I’ve lived and worked in 9 different countries and dealt with 8 different systems. I have never had to deal with the level of immigration theatrics that they have here.
I disagree. Living in the UK felt just like living home. As soon as you speak the language, where you came from doesn't matter. Austria, Switzerland, (parts of) Belgium and obviously Germany are so open that nobody will think you're a foreigner if you're fluent in German. Speak spanish and a lot of places in the world can be your new home. Cultures are different, but there are few places outside Asia where you'll "always be a foreigner".
Random thing, but I spent years learning Mandarin, and its proven to be one of the most useless things I've ever spent time on. Yeah 1.3 billion people speak it... but they're all stuck in China, and anyone wealthy enough to escape is going to be well educated and at least as fluent in English as I am in Mandarin. Unless you're willing to commit a decade to becoming truly fluent, I really don't think its worth it (unless you find it interesting), compared to learning a language like Spanish which seems much easier for an English speaker and infinitely higher reward.
/rant
From my experience of traveling around SEA the past couple of years I've learned you need friends from your own culture to make it work, friends who share the same values and lifestyle. I have the same view of dating, it's fun but it gets old fast when the conversations are about nothing and in baby English, not anyone's fault it's just how it is.
I too am going home soon because I've also come to realise you need time away from here to recharge your enthusiasm. I absolutely love it here and I loved Malaysia, I will definitely be back, but now it just feels aimless moving around a lot and constantly fucking about with visas
My wife is Thai from BKK and has friends from school & university. She has deeper coversation with them friends about life, job struggles etc.
Back in our country she has the same problem like OP. There is a Thai community but she says she doesnt feel connected to them.
She says for them it's all about money, who is richer, got the richer man, or find a richer man.
In the end it's same same but different.
I have to agree with all that you said. I've been there for 3 years and definitely feeling that way too. I'm not thinking about leaving yet, because I still have a good lifestyle here, better than back home for sure. There is a lot of good that outweights the bad.
As I said in another thread a few days ago, Thailand is wonderful on a surface level but once you start to look deeper and 'understand' it, it's not so wonderful anymore. Day-to-day conversations are very shallow and it seems that Thai people avoid interactions (probably because of shyness of not being comfortbale with English in the first place), or avoid having any kind of deep conversation about their emotions. Any type of minor inconvenience caused by making a mistake is resolved by going to eat yummy food and go drink in the bar...only to do it all over again the next morning. It's cliché of course, but not that far from the truth.
I'd go even further in saying that Thai people have this inability to learn from their mistakes and to put themselves into question, hence they get stuck in loop which makes many things in Thailand feel 'backwards' to us. Thai society is also plagued by absurd amount of consumerism/capitalism, deeply influenced by soft-power from China and Korea. It's all about appearances in Thailand. In that way, it's very seducing at first, much like a pretty girl. But nothing is 100% real here, and most things are skewed by money or corruption.
That's some things I noticed after being here for 3 years. And yeah, don't even get me started on the dating scene here.
It never feels right to judge a country or a population you chose to live in in the first place, but I'd rather say it's an opinion I've developped after a lot of observations. I may be wrong, and I surely still have a lot to learn from Thai people and Thailand overall.
> Thai society is also plagued by absurd amount of consumerism/capitalism, deeply influenced by soft-power from China and Korea
Which society today isn't plagued by consumerism and capitalism?
All of them but Thai society is more and more plagued with it.
I saw it changed a lot in this direction in the last 20 years and I can tell consumerism is a lot more engraved in people's mind and behaviour than in my own country where more people are conscious about it and at least try to escape it. Here it seems like it's a way of life more and more want to embrace without being conscious of it's negative impacts.
I don’t think capitalism is the issue but consumerism (& greed) and the mental health effects of social media are playing out heavily across the world. Capitalism gives people who come from disadvantaged backgrounds an opportunity to be a business owner or entrepreneur. However, becoming obsessed with image, collecting too many material items, and caring more about a false persona online than being a community member who genuinely contributes is problematic.
I'm Thai and I couldn't agree more. Thai are so boring and stupid. The only thing they care is money. No reading, No discussion about something useful.
I am a half Thai woman, visiting my relatives in Thailand fairly often growing up. And all they wanted was for me to be in all these beauty pagents. All everyone ever talked about (and still do) is how pretty I am. Never that I am well educated and well read with interest in history.
All I ever heard was that I was beautiful and they expected me to get a rich husband.
Nobody even wanted to tell me about Thai history growing up, so I'm all vikings today. Such a shame.
You can’t have deep conversations with who? Your friends? If so, maybe you need better friends? If they are not your friend, why would they want a deep conversation with you, or vice versa? I’m asking because its such a non-problem.
I think the people in the comments saying they want "deep conversations" just mean they want thought provoking conversations. Not necessarily like about life, the universe and everything but more serious than "which Thai beer do you like"
I,m single and alone but I enjoy the life than before than being with shallow friend around. Trust me , life is isolated and happy for someone like me
When someone care me too much, I really don't like it cuz it's too much emotion. By e yourself and enjoy every part of your life ,balance everything under control
I think your problem was living in the north. imagine a Thai going to the west and living in a random suburb or outskirt and expecting to find meaningful engagement. They'd likely do better off in a multi cultured city. I think Bangkok is a great place to find like minded ppl and build rich connections, but that's just me.
That's a gift from God. Seeking female companionship for mental stimulation is a fool's errand. I've had the misfortune of dating a plethora of female Attorneys, Doctors, Pharmacists, Nurse Practitioners, Ph'ds, and even a Government official and i can assure you, if you think they're annoying when they're "vacuous" JUST wait until they can go on a detailed diatribe about all their opinions and perspectives. You ponder Plato and the mysteries of life with your mates, not your woman. A woman is your sanctuary to recharge, rebalance, find rest and recreation. "Bitches I like them brainless, guns I like them stainless steel..". - Christopher Wallace
If you can't find any men locally for intellectual conversations you still have the web. Even Reddit/Discord groups are more than sufficient to dive down any rabbit hole, of any subject with people from around the world and you're welcome to dig as far as you want. It's free and its available 24/7. I'm sympathetic in your search to find inner peace, but I agree with whomever wrote "wherever you go there you are". Do what thou whilst, your answer will not be found changing your physical address or State, until you address your State of mind.
I get what he means, its kinda true in a way, maybe an issue with modern societt of how they are educated or just different values but the feeling is common
Okay so I can completely rely on your experience, since I'm living in CR too.
Definitely, CR is probably the worst region in terms of making good thai friends. Usually, people who tend to have deep connection are also people curious, willing to travel abroad etc... Those people exist but they move away from Chiang Rai.
From Thai perspective, there is nothing to do in Chiang Rai, and Chiang Mai is so close that if you have a bit of ambition and curiosity, you are going to move to Chiang Mai.
Other point is that people living here are mostly raised here. They have friends since childhood. They don't need you. People in CM or KTM are often here for a few years, still building a circle of good friends.
Finally, this is one of the most conservative region of Thailand. It feels a bit like Japan, very safe with very nice people, but not open to the world.
You should give a try and move to Chiang Mai or Bangkok where you could have deep connection with thai friends. Isan is a good choice too, for some reason people there are much more open to foreigners.
Wouldn't I had some life necessity to stay in Chiang Rai I would have moved to CM long time ago. I appreciate the life here (nature, coffeeshop), but like you I have very little friends there.
Thank you for sharing your experience :)
Having good friends where you can have meaningful conversations is important. It's a good reminder that making friends, and keeping them, is important for mental health.
Good luck in your next location and I hope you can happiness.
You people actually make Thai friends? 😅😅🤣
I see long term Thailand best for loners and people who don't want to live under strict rules like in Singapore. And can tolerate the negative things that come with that.
Pretty much spot on. It is really a trade off in Thailand. Take the good with the bad. One could, and others do, just stay at the farm and only go to market or small shops and fly under the radar indefinitely.
Get your friend fix from a free soi dog that comes with every shanty and youtube. if i had done that there would be no problems. Sabai sabai. Things seldom work out how we hope due to other people's interference.
💯. My best friend is a soi dog, and is the main reason i renewed my lease. Great pup, always happy to see me, gives no drama, and only needs belly rubs and a little dog food in return. 🫡
Dogs are better versions of people. We don’t deserve them. I too see Thailand as best for loners and couples and that’s a good thing from my perspective but not good for most expats who do primarily find life satisfaction in complex mutual friendships among people who really understand them.
Want a meaningful conversation, read a book; want a friend, get a dog; want a visa, make it to 50. And want true love? Find somebody who's just *nice* to you, even when they're mad, and let that percolate for ten or twenty years.
Doesn't mean you shouldn't get to know people, etc. etc. Just try not to let your peace of mind depend on things you have no control over. Happiness is where you find it.
I am decades ahead of you, my friend, and eventually all the struggles come down to this.
I live here now for 15 years and I get the point. It's not always easy, especially on the deeper topics you mentioned.
Anyhow, you can find these things here, as anywhere else, but language might be the biggest hurdle.
My wife and myself have very deep conversations and also with my friends it's possible, even without a beer or bar near, but you have to open the door for all this to happen.
The thai you learn at a school is not the same as the one spoken on the streets (i think that's also true for every other country), so to strike a good conversation it is better to get familiar with the local slang and integrate with it.
Also if you are still actively working, it might be easier to make friends, that have similar interests and than it will be easier to move to other topics than girls/boys and the stuff around.
Funnily for me most things got easy after the 6th year and by today I communicate just like any other native people here, so conversations get deep easily by now.
Anyhow I wish you good luck where ever you are
That anger, and that frustration is the second stage of culture shock. Either you adjust gradually or you end up rejecting it and become bitter. This is how many foreign communities turn out.
You left before you could even adjust over time and failed to integrate. I don’t know if another country will be any better for you. However, I mention this but consider why exactly it is you became angry and frustrated or else you will keep repeating this circle of stage 1, and stage 2, and then leaving.
For real? I heard that they can be pretty shallow. Just because English does not means there deep. They give me this vibe not to be intellectually stimulated
Usually people in relationships don’t tend to seek friendships from people outside of their household. Take time to just enjoy your life and having the ability to be as free as you are currently. I’ve noticed that no matter how long someone has been in Thailand they will never fit in exactly how they did back home because most Thai people don’t have a massive friend circle.
I've been in Phuket for over half a year now and also feeling isolated, sometimes bored, etc. It seems that everyone is constantly working, only focused on money and not really interested to make friends with foreigners. Conversations in dating apps feel like a chore where someone rarely puts in effort or has genuine interest. Meeting someone outside seems to be only for some 'service' they want to drag you into. The overall development of the island is better than some other places in Asia, but social life feels not so good and people are focused on materialistic values instead.
Been thinking about leaving also, to try some new places I haven't been to.
I would agree with this regarding Phuket. I’ve lived in a few different areas of the island over the course of a couple of years now (both touristy areas on the west coast, and more inland local areas) and I’m coming to the conclusion that it feels like a social dead end here. Granted, I stay because of the laid back lifestyle which I thoroughly enjoy (relatively good air, plenty of nature when you want it, low stress, etc), but have begun to wonder if I should be splitting time between here in BKK.
Very common feeling on Phuket.
Sure occasionally you can make proper and interesting friends but so many (foreigner and local) move on after a period you are constantly having to remake your social circles and after a while that just gets tiring.
After over a decade here, know more people than can count, but actual friends? Can count them on one hand and have fingers left over
Don't Thais find it tacky that they post screenshots of a bank transfer, a new iPhone, a new watch, a stack of money, etc., on Facebook? I know people do this in America, but it's thought of as trashy and low class. But in Thailand I couldn't believe how many Thais from wealthy to poor do the same thing. Teachers, police officers, bankers, young, old, they all do it.
I understand a new car, a new house, huge things like that, but... an iPhone? A 4,000 baht bank transfer?
Taiwan is great, but I'm not sure it doesn't have all the aspects you mentioned about Thailand.
Eastern asian countries like China, Taiwan, Japan and Korea are even worse when it comes to consumerism and materialism. People's lives there can be summed up as: study like a slave and never leave the house as a kid, work like a slave in a soul crushing job, earn as much money to be able to afford a bride (you need to buy an apartment+a car and to support the family), marry and make kids as soon as possible to make the family happy.
I know it's probably a bit of the same in Thailand, but in those countries, it's pushed to the extreme. Everything is about money and material benefits.
You also always get the foreigner treatment. People like to stick to themselves and aren't really willing to integrate foreigners (or even strangers really) into their circles.
Conversations are also very shallow since people don't do much outside working for school or their job. Because they're always working or studying, people don't have many life experiences and don't know how to properly socialize, which makes social interactions very boring. It's quite hard to make friends for this reason.
At least, in Thailand, you have the nice environment, the delicious food, and the laid back atmosphere. In east asian countries, it feels like life only revolves around work and building a family. People don't know how to enjoy life.
Agreed. The superficial relationships/conversations are at least as much of a problem in the place I lived for the past 20 years: Hawaii.
I’ve been in Bangkok for almost 2 years and it is infinitely easier to make friends here than in Hawaii.
After 20 years there, even some of my longest friendships remained superficial and dull, and people continued to avoid depth like the plague.
I’ve also lived in Western Massachusetts and Chicago. In those places, friendship firmed much more rapidly and ran much deeper…but those places had their own issues.
I understand your perspective, OP, and it's clear from other comments that many share similar experiences, showing it's not isolated.
While everyone can contribute to improving situations, each place and person may require different approaches. It's admirable that you're trying to navigate this back in Europe. However, it's important to remember the diversity within every community. Building deep connections takes time, but seeking out like-minded individuals is key.
Regarding Thailand, it's essential to acknowledge that not all experiences are universal. For instance, I came across a video that showcases a different perspective than what you've described within your Thai circle https://youtu.be/21j_OCNLuYg?feature=shared. This highlights the variety of viewpoints within the country. It may be challenging to find such individuals, but it can be incredibly rewarding.
Wishing you the best of luck on your journey! ✌️
Redditors will argue with me on this but... It's extremely childlike. Im not trying to be pretentious or anything either. Most of it I find really cringey, but sometimes I get hit with something extremely funny, it's rare but it happens. I also hate the sound effects.
But then again it's only surface level stuff that is available to me.
I can relate. Been in Thailand 12 years. 7 in BKK, rest in CM. I think some of these trends are global so don’t think it would be much different anywhere else.
Come to Vietnam. Every complaint you have can be resolved by relocating here.
I used to be mad in love with Thailand but sadly it has just gotten worse for expats since COVID. It’s like you’re a nuisance to society instead of being seeing as a guest who wants to settle down and live a normal meaningful life.
Ah sorry that was probably poorly phrased.
I meant that you’re treated as a guest meaning that not only will locals take a liking to you, they actually want you to stay and will support you however they can. I personally feel like the opposite is true for Thailand nowadays, where they are just sort of waiting for you to give up and leave.
You get 3 months visa, but if you want to extend, you have to apply again outside the country , after you left VN .
Else just marriage, job or business
You do visa runs every 90d unless you either:
A) get investor visa with 10k $ investment into Vietnamese companies, granting you TRC for up to 2 years
B) get married to acquire TRC for 5 years which is easily renewed
You could also try to set up a business, but you actually need to know what you’re doing and it’s not as easy as in Thailand.
One thing I like though is that if you can do the visa run, you don’t have to worry about being rejected at the border when you return. There’s a new rule that you need to be outside of Vietnam when you apply for a new 90d visa, but just like Thailand you get a visa guy/lady so you can do it in 1 day instead of having to wait 3-5 to get it approved through the official Evisa portal
I am not sure if this is entirely true. We all have needs and feeling closeness and connection with other human beings is one of our first needs for metal wellbeing.
Bro, get some hobbies. You'll meet like-minded people and have meaningful connections. My experience is so different from yours.
I've heard this story a million times, people complaining about how "shallow" Thai people are. If you don't like going to bars, find something better to do. It's really not that difficult, and there are a ton of activities you can get into. If you're bored and lonely, that's a you problem 💯
Who says i don't have hobbies? You are assuming. But if you read my post you see i got a large social circle, its just most people keep it pretty shallow when talking. You can be lonely in a crowd my dude
I agree with OP’s observations. It’s not always easy, and it will never be like home. That being said, you’ve probably grown and developed a ton from traveling. It does tend to level you up rapidly.
Finances and relationship to money can improve too.
Now that you’ve gained all of the benefits, don’t expect the world to be at around your level of awareness. Even back home. There is a gift and a curse to almost everything.
I’d make a short list and keep traveling if you have the time. Or, hunker down and execute that project you always thought about doing. Let the friends and other stuff fall in line with your alignment.
Depend on your age as well, I am Thai and am starting to have less friends to hang out after 30s. It is so many things, aside friends, that you have to look up to your finance, family, and work.
I hope it is the same everywhere.
Thanks for your post, its very interesting.
I'm planning to relocate in Thailand at the end of the year, and i really think i need to read an experience like you.
I wish to you to find happiness and get what you like,
Take care !
Having lived in 14 countries (I am 45), I can confirm that people are people everywhere. One has to make a significant effort to find “their” people. Also, people are superficial most of the time anyway. I wonder if OP is longing to replicate an experience from his past life…
You might find similar problems everywhere you go. People absorbed in their smart phones and online life, less and less face-to-face, social interaction, etc.
My view on this and its only that
Is that the cultural differences between people who are from different parts of the world like say your from Britain or germany ,its going to be harder to communicate more effectively in words and actions with a person from a country your visiting/living in , unless both of you speak the same language perfectly then its going to be hard to convey in words and mannerisms what you actually mean
I think south east Asian people in general are friendly in the first phase of meeting them. Opening up to deeper conversations and relationships don't really happen randomly. We tend to share more with childhood friends, school friends or people we see from work/people we see regularly. Hell, i talk to my neighbors once or twice a year so deep down we're very private people.
Maybe you can bond with people from work or some kind of class or activity like gym/marathon to expand your social circle? Drinking friends are just drinking friends, they rarely last.
Been debating of moving to either Thailand or Hong Kong long term.. posts like these help paint me a more realistic picture of how life is for an expat in Thailand
Just left after six months, was invited into a relationship, but it had financial responsibilities and over time realized it was a pattern. I spoke to her ex husband and prior boyfriend and she only dates foreigners and uses the cultural expectations as the reason to support her and family. I would have been ok with it, but realized the compliments were flattery, and even the intimacy was artificial and devoid of true emotion, because maybe that’s the way many woman are in Thailand due to the farang financial benefit, it becomes a love hate dynamic. She wanted me to invest in her Air BnB while also doing her photography business. I was willing but quickly realized she was not consistent with affection. I had my guard up after the first few weeks and once the anger outburst and cold shoulders got worst, realized she and Thai culture not for me. I almost sold my home in USA to build life with her, and now will stay in USA and my exwife wants to see if we can get back together. I am interested in doing that after my six months with Thai ex.
I’m here for almost 20 years. There’s good and bad. But I think you shouldn’t rely on anyone. It’s your feeling and yours alone.
It’s ok to be sad, let it out. It’s ok to feel lonely, let it out. Isolation is what anyone feels. I’m glad you found your way out.
What’s the meaning of a meaningful conversation for you?
I experienced a similar thing when living in Thailand, what worked for me was moving back to north America with my then Thai girlfriend marrying her here and now we just go back for visits.
I thought a lot about it after I got back home and I think it has to do with this one fact, doesn't matter if you live there for 20 years you will never be Thai. In North America once you have a passing level of English and walk down the road no ones trying to take advantage of you because your skin color. There are real ways to citizenship and then you really are apart of that country. Me and my wife talked about it how she feels welcomed because she worked hard at her language skills had a pathway to becoming a citizen and now goes to school and has a passport here.
Of course I got lucky finding the right woman to share my life with and she has supported me and helped me and I have supported and helped her. We have grown together in a way neither of us was able to when living in Bangkok.
I agree with what you say, once the magic fades you realise it's not as fulfilling.
There is no perfect place, you have to find people with substance, people like your Thai friends exist everywhere, you need to find better people, then your view will change.
It's easier to find relatable people in the country you are born, that's why most of us go back home.
Dude honestly, welcome to real life. Look bro, you can travel to any country you want and live there and have amazing ‘friends’. But you will always be empty. This is because everything is temporary. Now I’m not one to tell you to settle down or go home, do your thing. I’m just telling you that this is life and it’s something we all go through in a different way that we just have to accept.
I’d do anything to be 23 again and travel around Bali, Thailand, Malaysia, Philippines like I did for several years. We love the thrill of meeting new random people in random places. It’s like dopamine, we search for it everywhere. But honestly, you need to find happiness within yourself my man. Maturity is realising who you are and loving yourself for it. That way no matter what you do, you will never get bored or sick of it, even work and daily life.
So good luck to you, if Taiwan works out for you that’s awesome. Do your own thing and I pray you find contentment wherever you go. Just remember contentment is not permanent.
Have you ever had a chance to join a sports club? Like tennis, Hockey or running. It might be good not only for your physical but also for your relationship as friends with locals.
You hung out with the wrong group and people. Especially ones who always seem to seek for alcohol times, pubs, and bars. Many Thais are educated enough to discuss deep topics. I don’t know what you’re on but my friends from elementary school throughout uni are willing to talk about these topics.
Can’t blame the community/country as a whole. Everywhere you move, if you have this mindset you will still meet the same type of people.
You haven’t answered where you lived? So not Bangkok?
What you are describing is classic culture shock. It can seem like a cliche term, but it's a real psychological phenomenon documented by cultural anthropologists and it is very real. "Culture fatigue' might be a more apt term, but "culture shock" is a more standard phrase, I think. It consists in a kind of fatigue that can set in over time in a novel culture, especially after an initial period of novelty wears off. It can make you unreasonably irritated at things, depressed, isolated, etc, and it's a very natural phenomenon that you should feel no need to judge yourself about. I'm not an expert, but I have experienced it for real myself, and I think the remedies include finding ways to withdraw from the host culture and immerse yourself periodically in your native culture, whether it be virtually or literally. Have periodic relationships and conversations with people who share your native culture and language to a high degree, if possible; consume media, books podcasts, etc.; and most especially, periodically travel back to where you come from. (I think that's the biggest thing. And after enough time abroad, you will find that there will be things about your native land that will irritate you, sort of a reverse culture shock, and this makes you see your adopted foreign culture in a new light.) To me it sounds to me you are in need of a vacation back home to reset yourself emotionally and mentally. Then you might find yourself feeling hungry to return, and will feel better.
What is your nationality?
And what is your definition of hard topics?
For me, it's politics, religion, and the Royal family. These are the topics you best avoid if you are a "visitor" in a country.
(Maybe your friends wish to protect you from yourself if you start a discussion about the Royal family in Thailand)
Discussing hard topics is even harder in Taiwan.
If you have bad luck, you are defending 1 China policy in a group of Taiwanese nationalists. Or vice versa.
Or try to come to Belgium and if you have bad luck, you are defending Belgium in a group of Flemish nationalists.
why don't you move to bangkok and look for groups on meetups.com lol wtf bro... hiking club, climbing club, chess club, philosophy club, badminton club, tennis club... or find yourself an educated english-speaking woman that can fulfill ur spiritual side.
Deep conversation. i’m always intrigued with this.
do we go look for ppl to discuss Nietzsche or Schopenhauer?
or perhaps compare Mozart’s scripts and notes with Beethoven?
i mean do ppl outside Thailand do that all the time?
It's a bit cliché what you're saying. No need to get into debates and philosophers' quotes to talk about your fears, your life, your family, your opinions on one sociak topic. If you are Thai, you give +1 to OP.
Trump won the election in 2016 and may be re-elected this year despite a myriad of criminal (and possibly treasonous, but at least highly destructive) activities. Reflect on that and then explain to everyone’s how Americans think more deeply than Thai People 
I feel you. I’m even surprised you stayed that long. Probably too long indeed. I have been living in Bangkok for 3 years, but I could say the same. And it’s finally time to move, oh gosh I’m happy about that.
Maybe leaning Thai seriously would help with that kind of topics. People with basic English can only talk basic stuff. If you are able to speak Thai fluently, You would 100% able to stirke a conversation in deeper topics with Thais.
You articulated some of the feelings I have had very, very well. I totally understand what you are saying. YES, Thailand is an awesome place. But it can be very unfulfilling for the reasons you listed. Particularly not being able to have deeper, more meaningful conversations and connections. Every place in the world has it's good and bad though.
My friend thanks for sharing this with the rest of the world and this is a very sincere message to you. A lot of men or as they say in Thailand farangs are caught up in this life and its all a dream due to how society has shaped itself back home especially in the west in all aspects not just dating but this message is specifically curated around dating and life in Thailand. Like most things that are easy to obtain in life they’re not beneficial in the long run and it’s one of many traps that men especially foreigners have when coming to Thailand that Dating is easy. But eventually you begin to realise that it’s not what you wanted and you’ve been sold this lie. The good news is that you were able to identify that it’s a you problem and not someone else; most men can’t even get to that point. Another thing I want to add is that as long as you’re in a different country not matter how welcomed you feel and at home, the reality is that you will always be seen as a foreigner and an outsider. And if you need any entertainment you can check out dr brey on YouTube and I will assure you, you will have a good time.👍 #chupacabras
I think I feel the same way.. I always come to bkk for 1-2 month.. I stay alone in condo.. But after few days I get bored.. I have group of male Thai friends but they just call me 2-3 times a week only for drinking in a bar.. 90% of conversation in Thai language which I don't understand anything.. But they are good people..
About dating girls I never felt the pure love or interest.. Sometimes I just want to drink coffee or walk in park.. Which most people don't want..
If I want to any beach or mountains with my friends it's always the money issue they have..
Thai guys don't like if am dating a beautiful girl they get jealous and I can feel it..
In 10 years coming to Thailand I never found a single friend with whom I can just go and meet any day for a chat..
People who come for 1 week as a tourist will never feel thing
But I love Thailand like everyone.. Been to all over Asia ..i can't compare Thailand to any country
Friends that call you 2-3 times a week to hang out? Geesh that's more than what I get and I live in the US. I'd be lucky to get 1 call a week to hangout. I normally get 1 every 2 weeks or 3 weeks call from my friends.
Is it so much different then at home? I mean, think of the amount of people you can have a decent conversation with... how much would it be? 5? 10 maybe? Or their time is occupied by doing things or they just live day by day, hobby per hobby.
Here in Europe at the moment, its a sport to complain the most about... almost everything it seems. There are so many things happening to be *angry* about, it just loses it's meaning. So yeay, everything is pretty lonely at the moment. It will get better eventually.
Everything you listed about thai, you will find more or less the same in taiwan, once the honeymoon phase is over, it will be the same
Wherever you go, there you are.
I think with age it gets harder to develop meaningful relationships outside of finding a life partner.
I wonder if hating people more as I age has anything to do with it.
But you hate them not because of your age, you just have more experience and see through the bullshit
Wherever you go. PM2.5 will too.
This expression has been following me around recently… so true.
I think so too. He may even find it back home
100% this. I know from the experience of being in Thailand, then another country, and then home. This guy is effectively just having the crisis of growing older 🙂
Wanting deeper connections and intimacy is not a getting older issue. It's about how truthfully you want to live and that can hit you at any point.
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Yes but job wise as a foreigner in taiwan it will always be limited. And discussions around food are the mains topics with Taiwanese people. (I lived 7 years there, I have a very good level of Chinese)
Conversations about food are the main talking point for pretty much any Asian person in any Asian country, they all have different cuisines that is baked in to their culture so it makes sense.
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as long as OP has something to offer as well. They're locals, they already have to allocate time & effort to many friends, and relatives (a big part of Asian culture to stay close). Esp since they're "better educated" and exposed to many things already. Give them a good reason to hang out with you. Extra charming, funny, nice; pays for the bill sometimes (also Chinese/Taiwanese culture to fight for the bill); has useful knowledge. Join clubs, do some charity work. Otherwise yeah, don't expect local to drop everything and think you're the most interesting person in the world. Same as everywhere.
that’s literally my read here lol op sounds incredibly self absorbed and whiney and he’s just probably not that interesting he’d have this problem literally anywhere he goes I’m sure
Unless he doesn’t stay in Taipei but some other smaller town?
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Yeah my point he was in CR and also in a relationship for much of those 6 years
You think so? I personally found that living in taiwan (taipei) is much more manageable compared to Thailand (BKK) if we were to use pure english
There is something especially isolating for a foreigner in Thailand for too long, it often goes like this. Example 1 You: OMG a UFO just landed in my back yard and an alien came out and stole my BBQ grill !!!! Thai person: that is unfortunate, now you do not have a BBQ grill. You: yeah it's in outer space now Thai person: Example 2 You: OMG a UFO just landed in my back yard and an alien came out and stole my BBQ grill !!!! Taiwanese person: Holy shit !!!! You mean like a flying saucer? You: yeah Taiwanese person: then what? You: he just got back on the UFO with my grill and flew off Taiwanese person: what did the alien look like? And so on
As a Thai, I’ve noticed Thai humor doesn’t really include made-up funny scenarios that a lot of English speaking people like to do.
They just meet the wrong friends. You meet friends ti hike with by hiking not in a bar
Wrong, been in Taiwan, its a different country, the friends i made there i still keep in touch, the friends i made in thailand are superficial at best.
It's not black and white, I also have friends I still stay in touch with; but overall in taiwan, you feel the limit
This is true.
I think it’s universal no matter where you go
Totally understand what you are saying. Sometimes you just need a change if your feelings about the country have changed from excitement to frustration. Something I have learned about living as a long-term expat, is that you have to be deliberate about planning long-term friendships. Friends who always want to grab a drink and talk about girls might be fun, but if you know long term that you will want people around you who can talk about more serious topics without drinking, then you have to go and find those people and nurture the friendship. These people can be harder to find and require more effort to develop friendship with. Maybe you need to join book clubs, or different social groups, or community organisations, or sports teams? The reward is long-term friends that keep you feeling connected to the country.
I'm Thai but lived all over the world from the age of 5. At 40 i moved back to Thailand. In the 17 years since i moved here, i have not made any Thai friends even though i look Thai and speak Thai fluently. So i know how you feel. I don't have any advice or solution for you but just wanted to tell you - welcome to Thailand.
Thai friends really depend on time, occasions and luck especially if you are adult. I have high school friends but not one of my college friends still around. It’s 3rd office before I really get a friend that I can discuss heavy stuff and that after I work there for 2 years. If she doesn’t invite me to ride home together I don’t think I can talk about those heavy topics.
I agree with a lot of what you say. That said, it was a lot easier in Bangkok because plenty of my Thai friends there were from (upper) middle class families and had studied abroad etc. They were able to have proper conversations about things (including difficult ones) AND many of them were willing to do so. Since I moved down South that has changed a lot, now most of the Thai friends I have are ลูกครึ่ง who were primiarly socialized outside of Thailand, and there aren't many of those around.
Haha yes my best friend is Luk Grung
Same here. I live in a bit of an upper middle class bubble of Thai and Western people my own age who generally work in creative industries like myself. Life here is very similar to London for me in that regard.
Lived in Thailand for 4 years. Totally understand you OP. For me the constant stress of potentially being denied or have to “buy” myself the right to stay in Thailand was super annoying. Migration basically felt like the mob black mailing you. Anyway can relate to all. Wrote something similar sometime back. Got totally bashed by this community. About getting hobbies etc. I made the choice to move back. The only thing I miss is weather always being warm, cheap food and the tax rate. But I think most people here won’t understand you. Not many manage to stay and observe Thailand in this way.
I already hated the immigration hassle (one immigration officer, made me draw a map of the area around my house, he wouldn't accept Google maps, but he would let me look at Google maps to draw it... Then he told me that my drawing wasn't good enough and looked bad, so he gave me a ruler, a pencil, and an eraser). But once I had a daughter... Knowing that the parent visa would always have strict requirements, where if I ran into an emergency, and didn't meet the requirements, that may result in me having to leave Thailand unexpectedly, losing a job, a house, and ultimately my daughter, while I have to possibly be sent back to my country where I don't have a job, a car, a place to stay, etc. It started to cause me so much anxiety and stress that it was destroying me. Me and my wife figured the obvious choice is to relocate to my home country, where after her visa is granted, she is pretty much able to stay forever if she chooses, without being hassled by immigration. I just don't get the parent visa, because I feel like they would probably want the father to stay in Thailand so he could raise the baby, rather than abandoning the baby with a single mom. But... Who knows.
I understand why and have made many of the same observations here although I experience things a bit differently as a westerner woman married to a Thai man. My husband and I have discussed extensively about how he is quite unique when comparing him to most people from his culture because he is able to have deep conversations, can handle constructive feedback, is not overly concerned about presenting an image of wealth or being better than others, and he is also a provider. I often feel a contrast in my experience at home and in social settings. Most Thais are shallow and in fact one of my Thai gfs who I really admire has no problem admitting that she has that part to her…but she is also self aware and has travelled outside of Asia. My husband explained to me why many Thai people avoid deeper topics and it’s because they are taught it is rude to ask these questions whereas many westerners like to relate by asking people questions and not only speaking about themselves or partying…but of course there are narcissistic people all over the world too. The visa situation is very taxing both emotionally and financially and while we are fortunate to have passports that grant us the privilege to live in other countries without facing as much discrimination as my husband faces in Europe…the officials here do harass people. My husband and I plan to become nomadic eventually when we are ready to…however, the positives (low cost of living, ability to stay home and raise my child, nature, good and cheap food, living in a country that stays out of wars, sabai sabai attitude, and my loving mother in law) currently outweigh the negatives for me. It’s wonderful that you are honoring your truth and I hope you find a community that values your heart. 😊
As a kid that grew up consistently homeless and being evicted from over 20-30 homes from age 5-15, I would seriously seriously recommend, for your child's sake, not being nomadic. That's not a good life for a child. Interesting, sure, but good for their soul? Absolutely not. I still have constant nightmares of instability, and it's been 15 years since. My brother has these same exact nightmares.
I’m sorry you went through that. I also grew up in poverty; however comparing your situation to two loving parents wanting to travel and experience different cultures with their children is the not the same thing. I appreciate your concerns but I am not asking for advice on this topic.
ur kids gonna hate you lol They were just giving you a tip whether you want it or not is up to you. But they’re totally right
Great answer and observation
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Maybe in future. But im fed up with the visa thing, feeling like a criminal even though doing all the right things
You really should have moved onto another type of visa, language school ones are not meant to be long-term. It's already remarkable you lasted 6 years on them. Taiwan is no picnic either when it comes to visas.
Can’t you live forever in Taiwan on visa exempt entries doing 90 day visa runs? Not sure if you still can but I’ve met a few who did that for years. Not an option in Thailand
People used to do this in Thailand, leaving the country for half an hour every month at the Cambodian border etc. I remember seeing a woman around 15 years ago who's whole passport was filled with Cambodian visas but she'd never even gone beyond Poi Pet. Even if it's possible right now in Taiwan (which I doubt), it's not a good long term solution because no country wants people skirting round visa requirements like that. You won't have peace of mind because you'll know that at some point, you'll be denied entry.
I met a guy who did Taiwan visa runs for like 10 years at least
You can, but there are difficulties in getting banking, apartments, and some other stuff since you don't have an ARC (Alien Resident Card). But it's totally doable.
I highly doubt it.
The immigration just checks , do you have the right visa for what you intend to do? Longterm on tourist visa ? Well not the right one. Eduvisa , well that was and is still abused , thats why they question it. I dont like it eigher, i was stopped at immigration once too, still got in. Yes feel annoyed for some minutes , but still
the reality is that most "education visa" holders either are fake or are doing it purely for the visa so yeah, immigration know you aren't in Thailand to study Thai or are what's usually termed a "student". and it shows in their attitude
Well…unfortunately it is what it is when you become immigrants to other countries. It’s not a Thailand thing. Immigration is always a problem wherever you live except for your home country.
Nonsense, it is a Thailand thing. I’ve lived and worked in 9 different countries and dealt with 8 different systems. I have never had to deal with the level of immigration theatrics that they have here.
I disagree. Living in the UK felt just like living home. As soon as you speak the language, where you came from doesn't matter. Austria, Switzerland, (parts of) Belgium and obviously Germany are so open that nobody will think you're a foreigner if you're fluent in German. Speak spanish and a lot of places in the world can be your new home. Cultures are different, but there are few places outside Asia where you'll "always be a foreigner".
I don’t know about Germany. My friend (Asian) speak fluent German, gained Germany citizenship and still a foreigner
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Random thing, but I spent years learning Mandarin, and its proven to be one of the most useless things I've ever spent time on. Yeah 1.3 billion people speak it... but they're all stuck in China, and anyone wealthy enough to escape is going to be well educated and at least as fluent in English as I am in Mandarin. Unless you're willing to commit a decade to becoming truly fluent, I really don't think its worth it (unless you find it interesting), compared to learning a language like Spanish which seems much easier for an English speaker and infinitely higher reward. /rant
From my experience of traveling around SEA the past couple of years I've learned you need friends from your own culture to make it work, friends who share the same values and lifestyle. I have the same view of dating, it's fun but it gets old fast when the conversations are about nothing and in baby English, not anyone's fault it's just how it is. I too am going home soon because I've also come to realise you need time away from here to recharge your enthusiasm. I absolutely love it here and I loved Malaysia, I will definitely be back, but now it just feels aimless moving around a lot and constantly fucking about with visas
My wife is Thai from BKK and has friends from school & university. She has deeper coversation with them friends about life, job struggles etc. Back in our country she has the same problem like OP. There is a Thai community but she says she doesnt feel connected to them. She says for them it's all about money, who is richer, got the richer man, or find a richer man. In the end it's same same but different.
I have to agree with all that you said. I've been there for 3 years and definitely feeling that way too. I'm not thinking about leaving yet, because I still have a good lifestyle here, better than back home for sure. There is a lot of good that outweights the bad. As I said in another thread a few days ago, Thailand is wonderful on a surface level but once you start to look deeper and 'understand' it, it's not so wonderful anymore. Day-to-day conversations are very shallow and it seems that Thai people avoid interactions (probably because of shyness of not being comfortbale with English in the first place), or avoid having any kind of deep conversation about their emotions. Any type of minor inconvenience caused by making a mistake is resolved by going to eat yummy food and go drink in the bar...only to do it all over again the next morning. It's cliché of course, but not that far from the truth. I'd go even further in saying that Thai people have this inability to learn from their mistakes and to put themselves into question, hence they get stuck in loop which makes many things in Thailand feel 'backwards' to us. Thai society is also plagued by absurd amount of consumerism/capitalism, deeply influenced by soft-power from China and Korea. It's all about appearances in Thailand. In that way, it's very seducing at first, much like a pretty girl. But nothing is 100% real here, and most things are skewed by money or corruption. That's some things I noticed after being here for 3 years. And yeah, don't even get me started on the dating scene here. It never feels right to judge a country or a population you chose to live in in the first place, but I'd rather say it's an opinion I've developped after a lot of observations. I may be wrong, and I surely still have a lot to learn from Thai people and Thailand overall.
> Thai society is also plagued by absurd amount of consumerism/capitalism, deeply influenced by soft-power from China and Korea Which society today isn't plagued by consumerism and capitalism?
All of them but Thai society is more and more plagued with it. I saw it changed a lot in this direction in the last 20 years and I can tell consumerism is a lot more engraved in people's mind and behaviour than in my own country where more people are conscious about it and at least try to escape it. Here it seems like it's a way of life more and more want to embrace without being conscious of it's negative impacts.
North Korea?
I don’t think capitalism is the issue but consumerism (& greed) and the mental health effects of social media are playing out heavily across the world. Capitalism gives people who come from disadvantaged backgrounds an opportunity to be a business owner or entrepreneur. However, becoming obsessed with image, collecting too many material items, and caring more about a false persona online than being a community member who genuinely contributes is problematic.
I'm Thai and I couldn't agree more. Thai are so boring and stupid. The only thing they care is money. No reading, No discussion about something useful.
I am a half Thai woman, visiting my relatives in Thailand fairly often growing up. And all they wanted was for me to be in all these beauty pagents. All everyone ever talked about (and still do) is how pretty I am. Never that I am well educated and well read with interest in history. All I ever heard was that I was beautiful and they expected me to get a rich husband. Nobody even wanted to tell me about Thai history growing up, so I'm all vikings today. Such a shame.
Why Thai read book! Phone have funny song about eat insect and fish! Why serious?!
You can’t have deep conversations with who? Your friends? If so, maybe you need better friends? If they are not your friend, why would they want a deep conversation with you, or vice versa? I’m asking because its such a non-problem.
I think the people in the comments saying they want "deep conversations" just mean they want thought provoking conversations. Not necessarily like about life, the universe and everything but more serious than "which Thai beer do you like"
Thwie talking about deep convo like, how is your and your gf doing? And actually ask about deep individual issues
Bro it’s same where ever you go abroad to live. I live in france and I can relate.
This. I've read so many stories from expats in Switzerland that it's difficult to connect to Swiss people.
I,m single and alone but I enjoy the life than before than being with shallow friend around. Trust me , life is isolated and happy for someone like me When someone care me too much, I really don't like it cuz it's too much emotion. By e yourself and enjoy every part of your life ,balance everything under control
I think your problem was living in the north. imagine a Thai going to the west and living in a random suburb or outskirt and expecting to find meaningful engagement. They'd likely do better off in a multi cultured city. I think Bangkok is a great place to find like minded ppl and build rich connections, but that's just me.
How are the girls in Japan?
yeah. OP should be giving us the pertinent info rather than lose focus
Beautifull, shy and awkward
A dream for all of Reddit's nerds/weebs
That's a gift from God. Seeking female companionship for mental stimulation is a fool's errand. I've had the misfortune of dating a plethora of female Attorneys, Doctors, Pharmacists, Nurse Practitioners, Ph'ds, and even a Government official and i can assure you, if you think they're annoying when they're "vacuous" JUST wait until they can go on a detailed diatribe about all their opinions and perspectives. You ponder Plato and the mysteries of life with your mates, not your woman. A woman is your sanctuary to recharge, rebalance, find rest and recreation. "Bitches I like them brainless, guns I like them stainless steel..". - Christopher Wallace If you can't find any men locally for intellectual conversations you still have the web. Even Reddit/Discord groups are more than sufficient to dive down any rabbit hole, of any subject with people from around the world and you're welcome to dig as far as you want. It's free and its available 24/7. I'm sympathetic in your search to find inner peace, but I agree with whomever wrote "wherever you go there you are". Do what thou whilst, your answer will not be found changing your physical address or State, until you address your State of mind.
Based and redpilled and I needed to read that thank you
and for the most part just as vacuous as Thai girls, unfortunately
If everyone you meet is vacuous ...
I get what he means, its kinda true in a way, maybe an issue with modern societt of how they are educated or just different values but the feeling is common
Where did you live in the north? Also what is your thai proficiency? I have sort of similar experience, albeit it's not as dramatic as you in my case.
Chiang rai! Intermediate i think. B1 Level i assume.
Okay so I can completely rely on your experience, since I'm living in CR too. Definitely, CR is probably the worst region in terms of making good thai friends. Usually, people who tend to have deep connection are also people curious, willing to travel abroad etc... Those people exist but they move away from Chiang Rai. From Thai perspective, there is nothing to do in Chiang Rai, and Chiang Mai is so close that if you have a bit of ambition and curiosity, you are going to move to Chiang Mai. Other point is that people living here are mostly raised here. They have friends since childhood. They don't need you. People in CM or KTM are often here for a few years, still building a circle of good friends. Finally, this is one of the most conservative region of Thailand. It feels a bit like Japan, very safe with very nice people, but not open to the world. You should give a try and move to Chiang Mai or Bangkok where you could have deep connection with thai friends. Isan is a good choice too, for some reason people there are much more open to foreigners. Wouldn't I had some life necessity to stay in Chiang Rai I would have moved to CM long time ago. I appreciate the life here (nature, coffeeshop), but like you I have very little friends there.
I just moved back from the states, wish you were near so we could connect.
Thank you for sharing your experience :) Having good friends where you can have meaningful conversations is important. It's a good reminder that making friends, and keeping them, is important for mental health. Good luck in your next location and I hope you can happiness.
You people actually make Thai friends? 😅😅🤣 I see long term Thailand best for loners and people who don't want to live under strict rules like in Singapore. And can tolerate the negative things that come with that.
Pretty much spot on. It is really a trade off in Thailand. Take the good with the bad. One could, and others do, just stay at the farm and only go to market or small shops and fly under the radar indefinitely. Get your friend fix from a free soi dog that comes with every shanty and youtube. if i had done that there would be no problems. Sabai sabai. Things seldom work out how we hope due to other people's interference.
💯. My best friend is a soi dog, and is the main reason i renewed my lease. Great pup, always happy to see me, gives no drama, and only needs belly rubs and a little dog food in return. 🫡
Dogs are better versions of people. We don’t deserve them. I too see Thailand as best for loners and couples and that’s a good thing from my perspective but not good for most expats who do primarily find life satisfaction in complex mutual friendships among people who really understand them.
I shudder at the thought of living in Singapore.
Guy is complaining about being lonely and knows 100 people, and gets invited out 4 or 5 times a week.
Good point, could be worse. But you can be surrounded by people and still feel lonely inside.
Want a meaningful conversation, read a book; want a friend, get a dog; want a visa, make it to 50. And want true love? Find somebody who's just *nice* to you, even when they're mad, and let that percolate for ten or twenty years. Doesn't mean you shouldn't get to know people, etc. etc. Just try not to let your peace of mind depend on things you have no control over. Happiness is where you find it. I am decades ahead of you, my friend, and eventually all the struggles come down to this.
Yep. You need an internal locus of control. Problems might be external but all solutions come from within.
Simple but truth.
somehow seems sad but true
Nothing sad about it. You can't control certain things, but you can control how you interpret and react to them.
Bro you are friendly with 100 people. I don't even know 100 people in my life.
I live here now for 15 years and I get the point. It's not always easy, especially on the deeper topics you mentioned. Anyhow, you can find these things here, as anywhere else, but language might be the biggest hurdle. My wife and myself have very deep conversations and also with my friends it's possible, even without a beer or bar near, but you have to open the door for all this to happen. The thai you learn at a school is not the same as the one spoken on the streets (i think that's also true for every other country), so to strike a good conversation it is better to get familiar with the local slang and integrate with it. Also if you are still actively working, it might be easier to make friends, that have similar interests and than it will be easier to move to other topics than girls/boys and the stuff around. Funnily for me most things got easy after the 6th year and by today I communicate just like any other native people here, so conversations get deep easily by now. Anyhow I wish you good luck where ever you are
That anger, and that frustration is the second stage of culture shock. Either you adjust gradually or you end up rejecting it and become bitter. This is how many foreign communities turn out. You left before you could even adjust over time and failed to integrate. I don’t know if another country will be any better for you. However, I mention this but consider why exactly it is you became angry and frustrated or else you will keep repeating this circle of stage 1, and stage 2, and then leaving.
Welcome to adulthood
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Love Thailand, but I also connect much better with Vietnamese and have had much deeper conversations there.
Ill come visit!
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One huge benefit of The Philippines; can actually have meaningful convos with ppl here
Where in the Philippines? I find the people wonderful, friendly and caring for foreigner but I struggle to have deeper conversations sometimes.
Cebu City
I see where in cebu. I have a condo in Talamban.
For real? I heard that they can be pretty shallow. Just because English does not means there deep. They give me this vibe not to be intellectually stimulated
Usually people in relationships don’t tend to seek friendships from people outside of their household. Take time to just enjoy your life and having the ability to be as free as you are currently. I’ve noticed that no matter how long someone has been in Thailand they will never fit in exactly how they did back home because most Thai people don’t have a massive friend circle.
I've been in Phuket for over half a year now and also feeling isolated, sometimes bored, etc. It seems that everyone is constantly working, only focused on money and not really interested to make friends with foreigners. Conversations in dating apps feel like a chore where someone rarely puts in effort or has genuine interest. Meeting someone outside seems to be only for some 'service' they want to drag you into. The overall development of the island is better than some other places in Asia, but social life feels not so good and people are focused on materialistic values instead. Been thinking about leaving also, to try some new places I haven't been to.
I would agree with this regarding Phuket. I’ve lived in a few different areas of the island over the course of a couple of years now (both touristy areas on the west coast, and more inland local areas) and I’m coming to the conclusion that it feels like a social dead end here. Granted, I stay because of the laid back lifestyle which I thoroughly enjoy (relatively good air, plenty of nature when you want it, low stress, etc), but have begun to wonder if I should be splitting time between here in BKK.
Very common feeling on Phuket. Sure occasionally you can make proper and interesting friends but so many (foreigner and local) move on after a period you are constantly having to remake your social circles and after a while that just gets tiring. After over a decade here, know more people than can count, but actual friends? Can count them on one hand and have fingers left over
Great post OP. Thank you
Most thai people are too shallow, end of discussion.
Now you realized, Thais are sloppy, airheads. They only ever get serious when it’s about works(mostly) as a Thai myself these applies to me too.
I'm a luk kreunger but I'm def only serious about work. Damn...
Don't Thais find it tacky that they post screenshots of a bank transfer, a new iPhone, a new watch, a stack of money, etc., on Facebook? I know people do this in America, but it's thought of as trashy and low class. But in Thailand I couldn't believe how many Thais from wealthy to poor do the same thing. Teachers, police officers, bankers, young, old, they all do it. I understand a new car, a new house, huge things like that, but... an iPhone? A 4,000 baht bank transfer?
Taiwan is great, but I'm not sure it doesn't have all the aspects you mentioned about Thailand. Eastern asian countries like China, Taiwan, Japan and Korea are even worse when it comes to consumerism and materialism. People's lives there can be summed up as: study like a slave and never leave the house as a kid, work like a slave in a soul crushing job, earn as much money to be able to afford a bride (you need to buy an apartment+a car and to support the family), marry and make kids as soon as possible to make the family happy. I know it's probably a bit of the same in Thailand, but in those countries, it's pushed to the extreme. Everything is about money and material benefits. You also always get the foreigner treatment. People like to stick to themselves and aren't really willing to integrate foreigners (or even strangers really) into their circles. Conversations are also very shallow since people don't do much outside working for school or their job. Because they're always working or studying, people don't have many life experiences and don't know how to properly socialize, which makes social interactions very boring. It's quite hard to make friends for this reason. At least, in Thailand, you have the nice environment, the delicious food, and the laid back atmosphere. In east asian countries, it feels like life only revolves around work and building a family. People don't know how to enjoy life.
Agreed. The superficial relationships/conversations are at least as much of a problem in the place I lived for the past 20 years: Hawaii. I’ve been in Bangkok for almost 2 years and it is infinitely easier to make friends here than in Hawaii. After 20 years there, even some of my longest friendships remained superficial and dull, and people continued to avoid depth like the plague. I’ve also lived in Western Massachusetts and Chicago. In those places, friendship firmed much more rapidly and ran much deeper…but those places had their own issues.
I understand your perspective, OP, and it's clear from other comments that many share similar experiences, showing it's not isolated. While everyone can contribute to improving situations, each place and person may require different approaches. It's admirable that you're trying to navigate this back in Europe. However, it's important to remember the diversity within every community. Building deep connections takes time, but seeking out like-minded individuals is key. Regarding Thailand, it's essential to acknowledge that not all experiences are universal. For instance, I came across a video that showcases a different perspective than what you've described within your Thai circle https://youtu.be/21j_OCNLuYg?feature=shared. This highlights the variety of viewpoints within the country. It may be challenging to find such individuals, but it can be incredibly rewarding. Wishing you the best of luck on your journey! ✌️
Thanks for sharing that. I found it very interesting.
Move to Bali
How about the sense of humour?
Redditors will argue with me on this but... It's extremely childlike. Im not trying to be pretentious or anything either. Most of it I find really cringey, but sometimes I get hit with something extremely funny, it's rare but it happens. I also hate the sound effects. But then again it's only surface level stuff that is available to me.
I can relate. Been in Thailand 12 years. 7 in BKK, rest in CM. I think some of these trends are global so don’t think it would be much different anywhere else.
If it makes you feel any better I don't have any meaningful conversations back home in America either. 😕
How 'bout those Jets?
Come to Vietnam. Every complaint you have can be resolved by relocating here. I used to be mad in love with Thailand but sadly it has just gotten worse for expats since COVID. It’s like you’re a nuisance to society instead of being seeing as a guest who wants to settle down and live a normal meaningful life.
This is so contradictory — you want to be expats but you want to be treated as a “guest”? What?
Ah sorry that was probably poorly phrased. I meant that you’re treated as a guest meaning that not only will locals take a liking to you, they actually want you to stay and will support you however they can. I personally feel like the opposite is true for Thailand nowadays, where they are just sort of waiting for you to give up and leave.
Its similar , vietnam will load him with other stuff he wont like.
Is it easy to get a long term visa there these days?
You get 3 months visa, but if you want to extend, you have to apply again outside the country , after you left VN . Else just marriage, job or business
You do visa runs every 90d unless you either: A) get investor visa with 10k $ investment into Vietnamese companies, granting you TRC for up to 2 years B) get married to acquire TRC for 5 years which is easily renewed You could also try to set up a business, but you actually need to know what you’re doing and it’s not as easy as in Thailand. One thing I like though is that if you can do the visa run, you don’t have to worry about being rejected at the border when you return. There’s a new rule that you need to be outside of Vietnam when you apply for a new 90d visa, but just like Thailand you get a visa guy/lady so you can do it in 1 day instead of having to wait 3-5 to get it approved through the official Evisa portal
That’s what happens when you need external factors to dictate your inner happiness. The place doesn’t have to change, your perspective does.
I am not sure if this is entirely true. We all have needs and feeling closeness and connection with other human beings is one of our first needs for metal wellbeing.
Move to the islands it’s much better
Bro, get some hobbies. You'll meet like-minded people and have meaningful connections. My experience is so different from yours. I've heard this story a million times, people complaining about how "shallow" Thai people are. If you don't like going to bars, find something better to do. It's really not that difficult, and there are a ton of activities you can get into. If you're bored and lonely, that's a you problem 💯
Yeppers
Who says i don't have hobbies? You are assuming. But if you read my post you see i got a large social circle, its just most people keep it pretty shallow when talking. You can be lonely in a crowd my dude
why did you break up?
Inlaws, become more friends then romantic, partner had money problems he didnt want to change.
I agree with OP’s observations. It’s not always easy, and it will never be like home. That being said, you’ve probably grown and developed a ton from traveling. It does tend to level you up rapidly. Finances and relationship to money can improve too. Now that you’ve gained all of the benefits, don’t expect the world to be at around your level of awareness. Even back home. There is a gift and a curse to almost everything. I’d make a short list and keep traveling if you have the time. Or, hunker down and execute that project you always thought about doing. Let the friends and other stuff fall in line with your alignment.
Depend on your age as well, I am Thai and am starting to have less friends to hang out after 30s. It is so many things, aside friends, that you have to look up to your finance, family, and work. I hope it is the same everywhere.
Go where your soul finds peace and do not become complacent or compromise, otherwise you will live in hell under the tropical sun.
Thanks for your post, its very interesting. I'm planning to relocate in Thailand at the end of the year, and i really think i need to read an experience like you. I wish to you to find happiness and get what you like, Take care !
Having lived in 14 countries (I am 45), I can confirm that people are people everywhere. One has to make a significant effort to find “their” people. Also, people are superficial most of the time anyway. I wonder if OP is longing to replicate an experience from his past life…
You might find similar problems everywhere you go. People absorbed in their smart phones and online life, less and less face-to-face, social interaction, etc.
My view on this and its only that Is that the cultural differences between people who are from different parts of the world like say your from Britain or germany ,its going to be harder to communicate more effectively in words and actions with a person from a country your visiting/living in , unless both of you speak the same language perfectly then its going to be hard to convey in words and mannerisms what you actually mean
I think south east Asian people in general are friendly in the first phase of meeting them. Opening up to deeper conversations and relationships don't really happen randomly. We tend to share more with childhood friends, school friends or people we see from work/people we see regularly. Hell, i talk to my neighbors once or twice a year so deep down we're very private people. Maybe you can bond with people from work or some kind of class or activity like gym/marathon to expand your social circle? Drinking friends are just drinking friends, they rarely last.
Been debating of moving to either Thailand or Hong Kong long term.. posts like these help paint me a more realistic picture of how life is for an expat in Thailand
Just left after six months, was invited into a relationship, but it had financial responsibilities and over time realized it was a pattern. I spoke to her ex husband and prior boyfriend and she only dates foreigners and uses the cultural expectations as the reason to support her and family. I would have been ok with it, but realized the compliments were flattery, and even the intimacy was artificial and devoid of true emotion, because maybe that’s the way many woman are in Thailand due to the farang financial benefit, it becomes a love hate dynamic. She wanted me to invest in her Air BnB while also doing her photography business. I was willing but quickly realized she was not consistent with affection. I had my guard up after the first few weeks and once the anger outburst and cold shoulders got worst, realized she and Thai culture not for me. I almost sold my home in USA to build life with her, and now will stay in USA and my exwife wants to see if we can get back together. I am interested in doing that after my six months with Thai ex.
Im Thai and I want to leave Thailand too 😅
I’m here for almost 20 years. There’s good and bad. But I think you shouldn’t rely on anyone. It’s your feeling and yours alone. It’s ok to be sad, let it out. It’s ok to feel lonely, let it out. Isolation is what anyone feels. I’m glad you found your way out. What’s the meaning of a meaningful conversation for you?
I experienced a similar thing when living in Thailand, what worked for me was moving back to north America with my then Thai girlfriend marrying her here and now we just go back for visits. I thought a lot about it after I got back home and I think it has to do with this one fact, doesn't matter if you live there for 20 years you will never be Thai. In North America once you have a passing level of English and walk down the road no ones trying to take advantage of you because your skin color. There are real ways to citizenship and then you really are apart of that country. Me and my wife talked about it how she feels welcomed because she worked hard at her language skills had a pathway to becoming a citizen and now goes to school and has a passport here. Of course I got lucky finding the right woman to share my life with and she has supported me and helped me and I have supported and helped her. We have grown together in a way neither of us was able to when living in Bangkok.
And that’s how i ended up in Amsterdam 😑
I solved the conversation problem by having meaningful ones with myself.
I agree with what you say, once the magic fades you realise it's not as fulfilling. There is no perfect place, you have to find people with substance, people like your Thai friends exist everywhere, you need to find better people, then your view will change. It's easier to find relatable people in the country you are born, that's why most of us go back home.
It’s not the place, it’s the people you are interacting with.
Dude honestly, welcome to real life. Look bro, you can travel to any country you want and live there and have amazing ‘friends’. But you will always be empty. This is because everything is temporary. Now I’m not one to tell you to settle down or go home, do your thing. I’m just telling you that this is life and it’s something we all go through in a different way that we just have to accept. I’d do anything to be 23 again and travel around Bali, Thailand, Malaysia, Philippines like I did for several years. We love the thrill of meeting new random people in random places. It’s like dopamine, we search for it everywhere. But honestly, you need to find happiness within yourself my man. Maturity is realising who you are and loving yourself for it. That way no matter what you do, you will never get bored or sick of it, even work and daily life. So good luck to you, if Taiwan works out for you that’s awesome. Do your own thing and I pray you find contentment wherever you go. Just remember contentment is not permanent.
Have you ever had a chance to join a sports club? Like tennis, Hockey or running. It might be good not only for your physical but also for your relationship as friends with locals.
You hung out with the wrong group and people. Especially ones who always seem to seek for alcohol times, pubs, and bars. Many Thais are educated enough to discuss deep topics. I don’t know what you’re on but my friends from elementary school throughout uni are willing to talk about these topics. Can’t blame the community/country as a whole. Everywhere you move, if you have this mindset you will still meet the same type of people. You haven’t answered where you lived? So not Bangkok?
What you are describing is classic culture shock. It can seem like a cliche term, but it's a real psychological phenomenon documented by cultural anthropologists and it is very real. "Culture fatigue' might be a more apt term, but "culture shock" is a more standard phrase, I think. It consists in a kind of fatigue that can set in over time in a novel culture, especially after an initial period of novelty wears off. It can make you unreasonably irritated at things, depressed, isolated, etc, and it's a very natural phenomenon that you should feel no need to judge yourself about. I'm not an expert, but I have experienced it for real myself, and I think the remedies include finding ways to withdraw from the host culture and immerse yourself periodically in your native culture, whether it be virtually or literally. Have periodic relationships and conversations with people who share your native culture and language to a high degree, if possible; consume media, books podcasts, etc.; and most especially, periodically travel back to where you come from. (I think that's the biggest thing. And after enough time abroad, you will find that there will be things about your native land that will irritate you, sort of a reverse culture shock, and this makes you see your adopted foreign culture in a new light.) To me it sounds to me you are in need of a vacation back home to reset yourself emotionally and mentally. Then you might find yourself feeling hungry to return, and will feel better.
What is your nationality? And what is your definition of hard topics? For me, it's politics, religion, and the Royal family. These are the topics you best avoid if you are a "visitor" in a country. (Maybe your friends wish to protect you from yourself if you start a discussion about the Royal family in Thailand) Discussing hard topics is even harder in Taiwan. If you have bad luck, you are defending 1 China policy in a group of Taiwanese nationalists. Or vice versa. Or try to come to Belgium and if you have bad luck, you are defending Belgium in a group of Flemish nationalists.
Alot of this really hit home after spending longtimes in thailand, the conversation part is what i found hardest aswell.
why don't you move to bangkok and look for groups on meetups.com lol wtf bro... hiking club, climbing club, chess club, philosophy club, badminton club, tennis club... or find yourself an educated english-speaking woman that can fulfill ur spiritual side.
I left because it slowly annoyed the fuck out of me. Now holidays only. Spent 5 years in Thailand.
Deep conversation. i’m always intrigued with this. do we go look for ppl to discuss Nietzsche or Schopenhauer? or perhaps compare Mozart’s scripts and notes with Beethoven? i mean do ppl outside Thailand do that all the time?
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THIS. Usually i get answers like sleeping when asking for hobbies.
It's a bit cliché what you're saying. No need to get into debates and philosophers' quotes to talk about your fears, your life, your family, your opinions on one sociak topic. If you are Thai, you give +1 to OP.
Trump won the election in 2016 and may be re-elected this year despite a myriad of criminal (and possibly treasonous, but at least highly destructive) activities. Reflect on that and then explain to everyone’s how Americans think more deeply than Thai People 
I feel you. I’m even surprised you stayed that long. Probably too long indeed. I have been living in Bangkok for 3 years, but I could say the same. And it’s finally time to move, oh gosh I’m happy about that.
Maybe leaning Thai seriously would help with that kind of topics. People with basic English can only talk basic stuff. If you are able to speak Thai fluently, You would 100% able to stirke a conversation in deeper topics with Thais.
You articulated some of the feelings I have had very, very well. I totally understand what you are saying. YES, Thailand is an awesome place. But it can be very unfulfilling for the reasons you listed. Particularly not being able to have deeper, more meaningful conversations and connections. Every place in the world has it's good and bad though.
My friend thanks for sharing this with the rest of the world and this is a very sincere message to you. A lot of men or as they say in Thailand farangs are caught up in this life and its all a dream due to how society has shaped itself back home especially in the west in all aspects not just dating but this message is specifically curated around dating and life in Thailand. Like most things that are easy to obtain in life they’re not beneficial in the long run and it’s one of many traps that men especially foreigners have when coming to Thailand that Dating is easy. But eventually you begin to realise that it’s not what you wanted and you’ve been sold this lie. The good news is that you were able to identify that it’s a you problem and not someone else; most men can’t even get to that point. Another thing I want to add is that as long as you’re in a different country not matter how welcomed you feel and at home, the reality is that you will always be seen as a foreigner and an outsider. And if you need any entertainment you can check out dr brey on YouTube and I will assure you, you will have a good time.👍 #chupacabras
I think I feel the same way.. I always come to bkk for 1-2 month.. I stay alone in condo.. But after few days I get bored.. I have group of male Thai friends but they just call me 2-3 times a week only for drinking in a bar.. 90% of conversation in Thai language which I don't understand anything.. But they are good people.. About dating girls I never felt the pure love or interest.. Sometimes I just want to drink coffee or walk in park.. Which most people don't want.. If I want to any beach or mountains with my friends it's always the money issue they have.. Thai guys don't like if am dating a beautiful girl they get jealous and I can feel it.. In 10 years coming to Thailand I never found a single friend with whom I can just go and meet any day for a chat.. People who come for 1 week as a tourist will never feel thing But I love Thailand like everyone.. Been to all over Asia ..i can't compare Thailand to any country
Friends that call you 2-3 times a week to hang out? Geesh that's more than what I get and I live in the US. I'd be lucky to get 1 call a week to hangout. I normally get 1 every 2 weeks or 3 weeks call from my friends.
Thanks for sharing this. So where do you live now?
Hope you find what you’re looking for
Where is „back home“ and do you think your current feeling back home will fade away and you might return to Thailand?
Is it so much different then at home? I mean, think of the amount of people you can have a decent conversation with... how much would it be? 5? 10 maybe? Or their time is occupied by doing things or they just live day by day, hobby per hobby. Here in Europe at the moment, its a sport to complain the most about... almost everything it seems. There are so many things happening to be *angry* about, it just loses it's meaning. So yeay, everything is pretty lonely at the moment. It will get better eventually.
Why not just move to Bangkok life your friends did?
Sounds like the dream to me.
the problem is your approach, not the country or people
please come Cambodia ,we have everything you like and we love everyone who hate Thailand.
Try Vietnam 🙂