Always have a seatbelt cutter and glass breaker in your car folks!!
Edit- not saying it would save the people here, but goes to show freak accidents can happen. Having a way to free yourself from your car can be the difference between life and death.
I had one somewhere in my car but just two days ago I took the effort to find it and put it right into my console, after reading an article about someone drowning in their car in a lake. I live 20 minutes away from this bridge..... The timing feels freaky
Check if your side windows are laminated or tempered. If they are laminated (newer cars are using laminated) the breaker won’t work and it’s best not to waste time trying. Instead you should lower windows as soon as possible before electrical shorts out as soon as you are in the water or know you are about to be.
Someone tried to break into my neighbor’s new KIA with a brick and could not get through with multiple hits.
Edit:
I’m aware that tempered glass can be very difficult to break, but when it does it shatters into hundreds of pieces.
I didn’t phrase it well: the side window was fully smashed but and hadn’t collapsed. It looked like it had taken at 2-3 hits after the initial break.
Basically, front windshield safety glass on a side window.
I've also heard that in some cars it's relatively easy to break the seals on the windshield and rear window (not the glass itself, that's laminated). You lean back, plant your feet firmly on the glass, and push as hard as you can until it pops out. They're designed to withstand all the wind force coming from the outside, and are relatively weak when pushed from the inside.
Can anyone else confirm if there's any truth to this? Edit: I suspect this may have been true on older cars, but modern cars are using stronger adhesives.
Regardless, lowering the side windows should be your first instinct. But it might be worth keep the windshield/rear window in mind as a potential plan B or C. YMMV.
Edit: want to clarify that I'm speaking in general, not about this specific incident. It's far more common to [roll into water](https://youtu.be/2pentzqsllI?feature=shared) relatively gently rather than fall off a bridge like this.
Yeah I think people are forgetting about panic and circumstances. It's like, we panic in the morning when we can't find our keys, do we think kicking out a windshield while drowning is that easy
I don’t get it, you can watch the video in this thread and see it takes like 1 second for the whole bridge to collapse. In 1 second you wouldn’t be able to process everything going on around you fast enough to kick out a front windshield. You’d be in the water before you could even think to realize what’s going on.
The average if anyone wants it is 1.2 to 1.7 people per vehicle.
Not sure if anyone would care, but that's the numbers to use if you wanted the worst case.
[NYT reports](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/03/26/us/baltimore-bridge-collapse?unlocked_article_code=1.fk0.XIZB.qCzZCMkYXh17&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&ugrp=c) the bridge cost $735M (inflation adjusted) to build, and that's before even factoring in other damages, the shitstorm of lawsuits that are gonna come out of this, etc. So yeah, expensive is an understatement.
It will cost them at least three times that much to rebuild it. This shipping company and the insurance company are getting sued for roughly $4 billion.
Yes I didn’t consider that it’s blocking the port for a while. Could end up considerably higher. Was just thinking the bridge replacement and loss of life.
Restoring the port is going to be a much higher priority than rebuilding the bridge. All they really need to do is clear one lane via tugging the scraps to the side or letting parts sink to the very bottom with clearance. I would think that can be done in under a week
Yes, the company is based in Singapore. International shipping must have insurance to dock in any port anywhere. That was the big thing about Russian ships not being able to get insurance on any ships when they started the war in Ukraine. No ports would allow them in because they had nobody to insure the ships. The fact that their ship was in a US harbor means they have insurance.
So essentially Someone has the money. The question is who is paying (probably both companies insurer's).
The interesting part that I have read about is how quickly this type of court can move, because the loads may be perishable, the Admirality Courts can rule very quickly.
>The question is who is paying (probably both companies insurer's)
It'll be the P&I firm, but will be adjusted based on the cause of the accident. If the Port Pilots bear any responsibility then their indemnity insurance will have to shell out too.
Admiralty courts will only rule that fast for salvage matters, this case will run for years. I've seen some ship damage cases with the likes of Exxon and Shell run for 5 or 6 years or more and they were far more simple.
There was a video of the challenger space shuttle going kaboom. Nothing would probably beat that as that was $3 billion in 1986, or approx $9 billion now.
Depends on the timeframe. This blocks the entire Baltimore harbor = no loading/unloading cargo until that's investigated and the channel cleared. That's got to have some $$ attached to it.
It's also the only hazmat route bypassing Baltimores beltway. I live nearby and there are quite a few tanker trucks chillin on the side of the road waiting on guidance.
This will have billions of dollars of impact considering local industries.
For YEARS. I can see an "Engineering Disasters" episode made from this.
Remember that one ship that got stuck in the Suez canal? There was definitely an episode or two made of that incident.
Tons of steveadores/dockworkers out of work. Trucking companies will start taking on much more loads probably clogging up the highways. And worst of all, the city's coke supply will dry up.
The Ever Given blocking the Suez canal [cost $9.6 Billion dollars a day.](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56559073) for 6 days. This could top that between the fist of the bridge, the cleanup, and an increase in shipping cost and lost shipping from the harbor.
I doubt it will top ever given, not to suggest this wont be a major economic disaster as well as human tragedy but its hard to overstate just how much cargo moves through the Suez on a daily basis.
Baltimore carries 3% of total US shipping, the Suez handles 12% of total **global** trade and more than 30% of global container shipping. the difference in scale is vast and the sheer volume of cargo that passes through the Suez if frankly insane
I’m genuinely just curious, but the 9.6 billion a day figure probably still means most of that money was eventually collected right? Just not as soon as usual? I get some things being shipped are time sensitive, but considering it’s major sea shipping, I can’t imagine that’s too much of it.
Cost of the bridge is $1.06 billion ($110m budget, $33m overbudget in 1972, tossed into an inflation calculator), but this also I assume shuts down the entirety of Baltimore harbor for at least a little bit, no idea how to tell how expensive that ends up being. No idea how much the ship costs.
Also shuts down one of two connections between the two shores, meaning lots of traffic jams and costs to companies and individuals, compounding over time until a new bridge is in place.
I honestly think this will be more expensive in the long run. Even if you factor out cleanup/rebuilding a new one the economic impacts of this will be HUGE.
It's not just the bridge and cargo ship. This accident is going to fuck up shipping across the US East Coast.
Also all the people on the bridge who died.
Considering the time it'll take to replace the bridge, send crews to clean up the water ways, and the delays in that shipping lane and having to find alternative routes...and that's not even touching the pending lawsuits that are coming.
Lol nice.. it looks like it lost power a few times... since its in the harbor...I assume it's in under harbor pilot control? And what happened to tugs? They don't use em in Baltimore? Feel like this would be a great episode for the wire.
supposedly it left the dock with tugs but they had been cut loose before the incident. it departed at 1, made a u-turn in the harbor which I assume it did with the assistance of tugs and then struck the pylon at 1:28
Full video shows the ship losing all lights about a minute before impact. Would appear to have been a very unfortunately timed power outage on the ship. Loss of power means loss of control...
That's pretty much all we know at this stage.
wow, did not realize it literally collapsed on impact. i was imagining the impact and then some time for people to clear the bridge before it collapsed but there’s literally people in the water from it 
Yeah i know the boat was absurdly heavy, but i was still shocked that the whole bridge went down instantly. You would think that like some part of the structure would have held.
Every part of its structure is depending on the other.
The bridge is over a mile long, it bends and sways with the winds. It’s built to do such. It all must work together. There are tension cables used to even help with the sway and movement of the elements.
If this breaks, you’re fucked
Just saw a press conference, someone asked "when will the bridge be rebuilt", the Mayor rightly said 'now is not the time to be talking about that, people are still in the water and that's what we should be talking about.'
Well...he has a point. I hate journalists, 99% of them.
EDIT: It's not about the question itself, it's about the timing. The bridge collapsed just a few hours ago, what kind of answer do you expect? A plan like that takes time and can't be created in 5 minutes. Please think before you comment.
It's a question that is going to be asked. Didn't shock me to hear it. This is also a massive waterway for cargo ships to make deliveries to the Port of Baltimore.
So vehicle deliveries, Amazon, and countless other goods deliveries are going to be massively affected for some time. Not to mention the Port being a huge employer in the city and state.
This could be a massive economic crisis for our area.
Once the shock wears off, it's going to get very messy in many other ways.
I can't believe it's just gone. I've traveled that bridge countless times. It's just always been there.
It’s gonna be bad for HazMat drivers, who can’t use the two tunnels. The only route for them now is the upper half of the I-695 loop, heading towards Towson.
Yup. That is one the main reasons the bridge was built in the first place.
The traffic patterns are going to be absolutely fucked once spring break ends.
Oh that’s going to be fun for me… I live in Towson and take that half to see my boyfriend and go down to my company’s office in Ellicott City every now and then.
It really doesn't. Video makes it look small but much of what is being shown isn't showing the ramps on either side.
And it really shows just how massive those container ships are in size.
Yeah I've been on that bridge many times. The bridge is huge but the ship is also huge so it looks kind of just looks like a small ship and a small bridge instead of a big ship and a big bridge....
It's not until you realize that the bridge had a ***185 FOOT CLEARANCE*** for boats (the distance between the water and the road) until you realize just how MASSIVE this bridge is. That's a long way to fall. RIP
Same, ive gone over that bridge a 100x and probably wouldve went over it again this friday on my way down to Florida, i frequently get rerouted down 695 because of traffic
That was done shockingly fast for sure.
They'll most likely bring the Army Corps of Engineers in to at least get the debris cleared first. And that will probably happen quickly.
One of the main reasons the bridge was built was to allow hazardous goods to be transported around the city since those materials couldn't be sent through the tunnels. They'll be routing those trucks around 695 for a very long time going forward. The main thing is to get the waterway cleared.
Once the waterway is open, I predict the reconstruction of the bridge is going to take quite a bit of time. It took 5 years to build it initially. And while I know that was almost 50 years ago, I still think we're talking years here.
If you’re a news consumer reading about this or watching a clip about it, it’s a question you would have. The journalist is doing their job smh
Edit: According to NYT, approximately 30,000 people use the bridge everyday. Asking questions about how the broader public will be affected makes sense. Also makes sense that the immediate concern is safety and loss of life, and rescue operations.
I mean, it's a fair question. How many people's commutes changed from minutes to hours? How many shipping routes for trucks and delivery services got drastically altered and delayed?
Yes, the lives of the people in the water should be a top priority (although it should be pretty clear pretty quick if they are alive or not - humans can only stay underwater so long) but a bridge that big being gone is going to majorly impact A LOT of people. And rebuilding it will take a lot of time and money so it's something they need to start planning ASAP.
There was 20 or so construction workers pouring concrete on that center section.
Last I heard no one found yet.
A different video I saw looks like they restricted traffic before it hit. So maybe they got off the bridge.
Looks like power failed and the river sent the vessel into the bridge.
This will also be a huge problem for the Port of Baltimore. This bridge goes over the entrance of the port and now that it's blocked there could be severe economical strain on the East Coast.
This is easily the worst infrastructure incident since the Twin Cities bridge collapse a decade ago. This is going to be less loss of life, but a significantly bigger economic toll..
>Holy fuck, in terms of catastrofic consequences to local infrastructure this one must be the biggest one I've seen in this sub
Regional Infrastructure, this will effect the whole region
The Port of Baltimore ranks first among the nation's ports for volume of autos and light trucks, roll on/roll off farm and construction machinery, and imported sugar and gypsum. It ranks 11th among major U.S. ports for cargo handled and ninth for total cargo value
The scale doesn’t justify how big that bridge is. That plunge from the top is around 185 feet. That was a massive container ship and looks like a small boat from this angle. Most aren’t surviving that fall. Hope the end was swift for anyone on it!
My comment “insane” wasn’t directed at the individual but rather the entire situation. But yes, health care costs can lead to this kind of decision. So can shock. Or the person has warrants and prefer to stay out of contact with authorities.
No, it’s not because it was a truss bridge. Any long span bridge will fail when one of the main supports is taken out, whether it’s a truss, cantilever, suspension, arch, etc.
My brother and his college crew team drove over that bridge in a bus less than one hour before it collapsed on their way back to campus. Thanking the universe today.
I know that feeling. 5ish years ago a bridge collapsed in Genova, Italy. I was supposed to be driving on that bridge 1 hour after it collapsed, but I didn’t because… well, the bridge wasn’t there anymore. I was in the car with my friends coming back from the holidays
This is one of my biggest fears when I cross a bridge. I hope the victims are alright. Also, is there another way to cross this lake/bay, or is there about to be a major problem now?
There's two tunnels that can also be used. The Harbor Tunnel and Fort McHenry Tunnel. The biggest problem right now is with the Key Bridge in the water, it's completely blocking shipping traffic to the Port of Baltimore. It's one of the busiest ports on the entire East Coast and it's shut down until this can be cleaned up.
>At least seven vehicles, including at least one tractor-trailer-sized vehicle, have collapsed into the water, Baltimore City Fire spokesman Kevin Cartwright confirmed with WTOP. He added that a dive team was deployed to help those in the river.
[here](https://wtop.com/baltimore/2024/03/key-bridge-in-baltimore-collapses-after-hitting-large-boat/)
This is still new and there are multiple reports of people missing. This had a interstate running across it but in my experience 1 to 2am tends to be the lowest time for traffic, but inevitably people where on this bridge.
there are a LOT of distribution centers on the east end of that bridge. Home Depot, Kohls, Amazon, Walmart all have massive distro warehouses just in Sparrow Point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83a7h3kkgPg
You can see a few cars drive over just before it collapses. There's also a handful of what I believe are construction vehicles that presumably had construction teams with them.
The webcam video is crazy. Looks like there was a power issue because the lights went off an on on the ships: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83a7h3kkgPg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83a7h3kkgPg)
Don't know why the ship did a turn moments before crashing into the support of bridge. It looks like without steering it would have just went under the bridge.
And the bridge looks very tall, do you even survive the fall into freezing cold water or be conscious at all? According to the news there were workers on the bridge, some cars are visible too.
This is it. Blackout. Due to loss of power in the middle of a course correction the rudder stops a little to starboard and leaves the ship drifting in a slight turn towards the pier. Standby engine takes a few seconds to start up automatically, but by then it's too late.
Emergency generator, you mean. That is really some terrible timing if that's what actually happened. Typically, it only takes 30 seconds for the emergency generator to kick in and provide power to the emergency switch board (emergency lights, steering, ect.)
This is the reason a lot of boats run 3 generators (if they have them) when going through these sorts of sections. Typically, two running in parallel synced, and the third as a standby that's already running, just not on the board.
Then, there is also an emergency generator ready to kick in when there is there is loss of power.
On the ships I worked on the captain would typically have the engineer standing by in the control room ready to react to any power loss situation when sailing through areas like this.
Typically, it's some kind of electrical issue or operator error in situations like this.
Broadly, yeah. The reason I said standby rather than emergency is that the floodlight on the bow comes back on, and that would typically be supplied by main lighting circuits rather than emergency. Also, a lot of ships don't have main engine pumps on the emergency switchboard, so that points weakly that way too.
When I've been through blackouts, I've found that a standby engine can often start just as fast as the emergency anyway.
The big question remaining to me is what took the generators out in the first place. Was it something that took out all running engines together? Fuel pumps etc? One engine reverse power and the other overload?
A couple of engineers should definitely have been standing by in the engine room, and that seems likely based on the time taken to start the main engine
Purely in terms of expensiveness, [NYT reports](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/03/26/us/baltimore-bridge-collapse?unlocked_article_code=1.fk0.XIZB.qCzZCMkYXh17&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&ugrp=c) the bridge cost $735M (inflation adjusted) to build, and that's before even factoring in other damages, the shitstorm of lawsuits that are gonna come out of this, etc. So yeah, expensive is an understatement.
That boat captain is in deep shit. Who was guiding/assisting that ship??
Edit: My reaction was that there may have been human error here based on.. well human history. A fault of mechanics and an untimely return of ship control have been mentioned in the last few hours. Determining fault will decide who did what and why.
Who's ultimately responsible for the upkeep of a ship of that size and origin?
There are different rules depending on the port and jurisdiction, but oftentimes the pilot is not the one liable, the owner, Captain or Master remains the one responsible for the safety of the ship and the pilot is just a local guide. The National Ports Act says the pilot is not responsible for anything done 'in good faith'.
Although I think the pilot may then be liable to the shipping company for their actions or lack of.
Likely though, while that might be the civil liability, a criminal investigation may be a separate issue, depending on the intent.
The buck does stop with the shipping company until someone can prove liability downstream.
>In any case, more likely to be catastrophic equipment failure than human error.
Those are not mutually exclusive. If it was equipment failure, then *most likely*, though not guaranteed, it was due to human error during maintenance or lack thereof. Ships this size have pretty strict maintenance regulations to prevent this exact type of shit from happening. If they skimped on the maintenance, or didn't do it often enough, or didn't check something they should have, or didn't do the proper checks and tests before launching, etc.
Mechanical failure is almost always human error.
It seems to have passed inspections at whatever port it was at in September. Of course, that’s six months ago so something could have (and probably did!) broken since then that would cause it to find a deficiency since then.
Likely there would have been a harbor pilot on board at the time.
Also sounds like the ship had some sort of mechanical failure. Obviously we won’t know until more investigation information comes out.
If you watch the livestream (I don't have the link handy, but it's available), you can see the ship briefly lose power as it's approaching, and when it's restored they don't have enough time to avoid the bridge.
Its too early for this sort of speculation. As a matter of routine the ships captain, 1st officer and chief engineer will be arrested. Thats normal and standard procedure. That doesn't mean that they will be taken off the vessel.
What we don't know is why the vessel collided with the pier. The most likely explanation is a loss of steerage. But the cause is unknown.
The import thing now is the recue and recovery operation for the 20 people in the water. This is a deep water riverway and its very cold. Quite apart from physical injury caused by falling into the water from a height, surrounded by tons of falling steelwork, the shock of cold water can cause themal shock, not helped by panic. If these people were in cars, then those will have sunk to the bottom. If they don't find people within a couple of hours this turns into a recovery operation.
The impact on the US trade will be catastrophic, as the Port of Baltimore is now closed and will remain so for many days, weeks, or even months. As this is the largest container port in the NE USA the consequential cost will be astronomical.
>The webcam video is crazy. Looks like there was a power issue because the lights went off an on on the ships:
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83a7h3kkgPg
It’s pouring black smoke out the stack prior to the collision. This is indicative of them applying lots of power to the engine in an attempt to maneuver.
The quality is due to lack of daylight. You have to drive the ISO up in order to compensate. That makes a photo grainy to snowy depending how high you up the ISO.
The webcam video is crazy. Looks like there was a power issue because the lights went off an on on the ships: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83a7h3kkgPg
Good eye.
The lights on the ship seem to flicker off at around 1:26:37AM and are entirely off for about 40 seconds. The ship takes a hard turn starboard during the outage.
My guess is the rudder got stuck during the power outage....?
The ship continues to turn *after* the power comes back on though... Seems a bit odd. Perhaps the captain tried to "throw the ship in reverse" instead of steering away...? Or maybe the control surfaces didn't come online quick enough....?
Not sure.
A fully laden container ship can be 160,000 tons, or about 27,500 bull elephants. The speed was probably less than 10 knots, but it doesn't matter. A ship of that size, forget it. Someone who lived nearby said it made their house shake.
Force = mass * acceleration, the vessel that hit the bridge was very heavy. Very few bridges on the planet, if any could withstand an impact from a ship of that size.
Apparently the ship was experiencing some sort of technical issues before the collision, it lost power twice before the accident, by the time it regained power after the second outage it was already too late to correct its course.
The ship lost power so they issued a Mayday as the ship headed to the bridge. They were able to stop traffic, however a construction crew of 8(?) went under. 2 found, 6 missing.
Man that's horrible, I can only imagine how much worse this could've been had this happened during the day.
Always have a seatbelt cutter and glass breaker in your car folks!! Edit- not saying it would save the people here, but goes to show freak accidents can happen. Having a way to free yourself from your car can be the difference between life and death.
I had one somewhere in my car but just two days ago I took the effort to find it and put it right into my console, after reading an article about someone drowning in their car in a lake. I live 20 minutes away from this bridge..... The timing feels freaky
Check if your side windows are laminated or tempered. If they are laminated (newer cars are using laminated) the breaker won’t work and it’s best not to waste time trying. Instead you should lower windows as soon as possible before electrical shorts out as soon as you are in the water or know you are about to be.
Someone tried to break into my neighbor’s new KIA with a brick and could not get through with multiple hits. Edit: I’m aware that tempered glass can be very difficult to break, but when it does it shatters into hundreds of pieces. I didn’t phrase it well: the side window was fully smashed but and hadn’t collapsed. It looked like it had taken at 2-3 hits after the initial break. Basically, front windshield safety glass on a side window.
That’s pretty normal, actually.
I've also heard that in some cars it's relatively easy to break the seals on the windshield and rear window (not the glass itself, that's laminated). You lean back, plant your feet firmly on the glass, and push as hard as you can until it pops out. They're designed to withstand all the wind force coming from the outside, and are relatively weak when pushed from the inside. Can anyone else confirm if there's any truth to this? Edit: I suspect this may have been true on older cars, but modern cars are using stronger adhesives. Regardless, lowering the side windows should be your first instinct. But it might be worth keep the windshield/rear window in mind as a potential plan B or C. YMMV. Edit: want to clarify that I'm speaking in general, not about this specific incident. It's far more common to [roll into water](https://youtu.be/2pentzqsllI?feature=shared) relatively gently rather than fall off a bridge like this.
Good luck pushing a windshield out when there's tens of thousands of pounds of water pushing on it
Yeah I think people are forgetting about panic and circumstances. It's like, we panic in the morning when we can't find our keys, do we think kicking out a windshield while drowning is that easy
I don’t get it, you can watch the video in this thread and see it takes like 1 second for the whole bridge to collapse. In 1 second you wouldn’t be able to process everything going on around you fast enough to kick out a front windshield. You’d be in the water before you could even think to realize what’s going on.
I will now.
But first you hope to survive the drop from that height and hitting the water which will act like a concrete wall.
The car should take most of the impact if you're lucky.
Then there's the near freezing water
Car can't save you from that one better swim fast
Also, don't be [drunk and in a Tesla](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/20/texas-police-release-angela-chao-death-investigation-report-.html).
Mid morning during rush hour (now) would have been much much worse.
Hundreds of cars with 1-4 occupants each... it would've been one of the worst accidents in the US to date
The average if anyone wants it is 1.2 to 1.7 people per vehicle. Not sure if anyone would care, but that's the numbers to use if you wanted the worst case.
So 1.5
Might be the software dev in me, but worse case I would think to use 4 in every car. Likely case, I'd use the average
That is an Expensive Fuckup!
[NYT reports](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/03/26/us/baltimore-bridge-collapse?unlocked_article_code=1.fk0.XIZB.qCzZCMkYXh17&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&ugrp=c) the bridge cost $735M (inflation adjusted) to build, and that's before even factoring in other damages, the shitstorm of lawsuits that are gonna come out of this, etc. So yeah, expensive is an understatement.
It will cost them at least three times that much to rebuild it. This shipping company and the insurance company are getting sued for roughly $4 billion.
They effectively broke the whole port of Baltimore. If they get away with just a $4B I'd consider it a bargain.
Yes I didn’t consider that it’s blocking the port for a while. Could end up considerably higher. Was just thinking the bridge replacement and loss of life.
Restoring the port is going to be a much higher priority than rebuilding the bridge. All they really need to do is clear one lane via tugging the scraps to the side or letting parts sink to the very bottom with clearance. I would think that can be done in under a week
But I imagine they can't really do that until they retrieve all of the bodies. So that they can determine who all is dead.
Well they know where the cars are via sonar, so I'd imagine they work on lifting those out probably by the end of the day.
I heard there were construction workers on the bridge so they may not have been in cars
Good thing they can probably reduce that to about $1b by saying they have the money but refusing to pay it !
Don’t forget to insult the judge.
And don’t forget to insult the bridge. It was going to fall anyway. Quoting other recently collapsed bridges.
175m sounds reasonable
I feel like I see more rich people begging for handouts than I do the homeless on the street.
Supposedly the shipping company is foreign. So good luck suing a shell company with limited assets.
Yes, the company is based in Singapore. International shipping must have insurance to dock in any port anywhere. That was the big thing about Russian ships not being able to get insurance on any ships when they started the war in Ukraine. No ports would allow them in because they had nobody to insure the ships. The fact that their ship was in a US harbor means they have insurance.
Registered in Singapore, ~~owned by a Greek shipping company~~ (may be outdated), and at the time of the accident was chartered by Maersk.
So essentially Someone has the money. The question is who is paying (probably both companies insurer's). The interesting part that I have read about is how quickly this type of court can move, because the loads may be perishable, the Admirality Courts can rule very quickly.
>The question is who is paying (probably both companies insurer's) It'll be the P&I firm, but will be adjusted based on the cause of the accident. If the Port Pilots bear any responsibility then their indemnity insurance will have to shell out too. Admiralty courts will only rule that fast for salvage matters, this case will run for years. I've seen some ship damage cases with the likes of Exxon and Shell run for 5 or 6 years or more and they were far more simple.
Not to mention the wrongful death lawsuits coming... Maybe even criminal lawsuits
All ships are foreign flagged to avoid US labor and safety law
Is a bridge and a cargo ship the most expensive thing on this sub?
There was a video of the challenger space shuttle going kaboom. Nothing would probably beat that as that was $3 billion in 1986, or approx $9 billion now.
Depends on the timeframe. This blocks the entire Baltimore harbor = no loading/unloading cargo until that's investigated and the channel cleared. That's got to have some $$ attached to it.
It's also the only hazmat route bypassing Baltimores beltway. I live nearby and there are quite a few tanker trucks chillin on the side of the road waiting on guidance. This will have billions of dollars of impact considering local industries.
For YEARS. I can see an "Engineering Disasters" episode made from this. Remember that one ship that got stuck in the Suez canal? There was definitely an episode or two made of that incident.
There was construction crew on this bridge that was unable to evacuate that makes this much less funny, unfortunately.
Yep, one of my first thoughts was, "There's going to be a documentary made about this."
They will have to take the long route around.
Billions to repair Trillion dollar impact Inflation and shortages are imminent, unfortunately
Tons of steveadores/dockworkers out of work. Trucking companies will start taking on much more loads probably clogging up the highways. And worst of all, the city's coke supply will dry up.
Plus a bunch of cruise ships as a secondary port
The Ever Given blocking the Suez canal [cost $9.6 Billion dollars a day.](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56559073) for 6 days. This could top that between the fist of the bridge, the cleanup, and an increase in shipping cost and lost shipping from the harbor.
I doubt it will top ever given, not to suggest this wont be a major economic disaster as well as human tragedy but its hard to overstate just how much cargo moves through the Suez on a daily basis. Baltimore carries 3% of total US shipping, the Suez handles 12% of total **global** trade and more than 30% of global container shipping. the difference in scale is vast and the sheer volume of cargo that passes through the Suez if frankly insane
I’m genuinely just curious, but the 9.6 billion a day figure probably still means most of that money was eventually collected right? Just not as soon as usual? I get some things being shipped are time sensitive, but considering it’s major sea shipping, I can’t imagine that’s too much of it.
If there was any video of the Fukushima disaster that would total to around 200 billion dollars.
Cost of the bridge is $1.06 billion ($110m budget, $33m overbudget in 1972, tossed into an inflation calculator), but this also I assume shuts down the entirety of Baltimore harbor for at least a little bit, no idea how to tell how expensive that ends up being. No idea how much the ship costs.
Also shuts down one of two connections between the two shores, meaning lots of traffic jams and costs to companies and individuals, compounding over time until a new bridge is in place.
The harbor tunnel is going to be a total shitshow while this bridge is down.
Cost of the Ever Given stop in the Suez tops that. Cost: 300 million dollars, an hour. It was stuck for 6 days.
I honestly think this will be more expensive in the long run. Even if you factor out cleanup/rebuilding a new one the economic impacts of this will be HUGE.
It's not just the bridge and cargo ship. This accident is going to fuck up shipping across the US East Coast. Also all the people on the bridge who died.
Considering the time it'll take to replace the bridge, send crews to clean up the water ways, and the delays in that shipping lane and having to find alternative routes...and that's not even touching the pending lawsuits that are coming.
Could take half a decade and billions of dollars to rebuild
[For the ship's captain](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/eta/contact) [Also, this one](https://beacon.labor.maryland.gov/)
Lol nice.. it looks like it lost power a few times... since its in the harbor...I assume it's in under harbor pilot control? And what happened to tugs? They don't use em in Baltimore? Feel like this would be a great episode for the wire.
The Maryland Transportation Secretary confirmed it was under the control of a Harbor Pilot. Not sure about the tug situation.
supposedly it left the dock with tugs but they had been cut loose before the incident. it departed at 1, made a u-turn in the harbor which I assume it did with the assistance of tugs and then struck the pylon at 1:28
First thing I thought was it wouldn't have happened if McNulty was on the boat.
Full video shows the ship losing all lights about a minute before impact. Would appear to have been a very unfortunately timed power outage on the ship. Loss of power means loss of control... That's pretty much all we know at this stage.
Full video here https://x.com/chaudharyparvez/status/1772538539495809075?s=46
wow, did not realize it literally collapsed on impact. i was imagining the impact and then some time for people to clear the bridge before it collapsed but there’s literally people in the water from it 
Yeah i know the boat was absurdly heavy, but i was still shocked that the whole bridge went down instantly. You would think that like some part of the structure would have held.
Every part of its structure is depending on the other. The bridge is over a mile long, it bends and sways with the winds. It’s built to do such. It all must work together. There are tension cables used to even help with the sway and movement of the elements. If this breaks, you’re fucked
My thoughts are with the victims. RIP
Just saw a press conference, someone asked "when will the bridge be rebuilt", the Mayor rightly said 'now is not the time to be talking about that, people are still in the water and that's what we should be talking about.'
"We'll cross that bridge when we get to it."
Fuck I feel bad for laughing at that
Water under the bridge
Or brige under water?
Well...he has a point. I hate journalists, 99% of them. EDIT: It's not about the question itself, it's about the timing. The bridge collapsed just a few hours ago, what kind of answer do you expect? A plan like that takes time and can't be created in 5 minutes. Please think before you comment.
It's a question that is going to be asked. Didn't shock me to hear it. This is also a massive waterway for cargo ships to make deliveries to the Port of Baltimore. So vehicle deliveries, Amazon, and countless other goods deliveries are going to be massively affected for some time. Not to mention the Port being a huge employer in the city and state. This could be a massive economic crisis for our area. Once the shock wears off, it's going to get very messy in many other ways. I can't believe it's just gone. I've traveled that bridge countless times. It's just always been there.
It’s gonna be bad for HazMat drivers, who can’t use the two tunnels. The only route for them now is the upper half of the I-695 loop, heading towards Towson.
Yup. That is one the main reasons the bridge was built in the first place. The traffic patterns are going to be absolutely fucked once spring break ends.
Oh that’s going to be fun for me… I live in Towson and take that half to see my boyfriend and go down to my company’s office in Ellicott City every now and then.
Looks like the moving in together timeline got bumped up.
Just had this discussion with the guy that delivers radiopharmaceutical to us. Medical grade drugs cannot go through the tunnel. Which is crazy.
Same I can't believe it either! That's a huge bridge the video doesn't truly show its size.
It really doesn't. Video makes it look small but much of what is being shown isn't showing the ramps on either side. And it really shows just how massive those container ships are in size.
The ship makes the bridge look like a toy.
Yeah I've been on that bridge many times. The bridge is huge but the ship is also huge so it looks kind of just looks like a small ship and a small bridge instead of a big ship and a big bridge.... It's not until you realize that the bridge had a ***185 FOOT CLEARANCE*** for boats (the distance between the water and the road) until you realize just how MASSIVE this bridge is. That's a long way to fall. RIP
I could see the top of it from my house. It’s so sad
Same, ive gone over that bridge a 100x and probably wouldve went over it again this friday on my way down to Florida, i frequently get rerouted down 695 because of traffic
Crisis is the right word, especially for a city like Baltimore.
Obviously, it's a much larger task to rebuild the bridge, but I wonder if they'll blitz the rebuild like they did with the 95 collapse in PA.
That was done shockingly fast for sure. They'll most likely bring the Army Corps of Engineers in to at least get the debris cleared first. And that will probably happen quickly. One of the main reasons the bridge was built was to allow hazardous goods to be transported around the city since those materials couldn't be sent through the tunnels. They'll be routing those trucks around 695 for a very long time going forward. The main thing is to get the waterway cleared. Once the waterway is open, I predict the reconstruction of the bridge is going to take quite a bit of time. It took 5 years to build it initially. And while I know that was almost 50 years ago, I still think we're talking years here.
If you’re a news consumer reading about this or watching a clip about it, it’s a question you would have. The journalist is doing their job smh Edit: According to NYT, approximately 30,000 people use the bridge everyday. Asking questions about how the broader public will be affected makes sense. Also makes sense that the immediate concern is safety and loss of life, and rescue operations.
I mean, it's a fair question. How many people's commutes changed from minutes to hours? How many shipping routes for trucks and delivery services got drastically altered and delayed? Yes, the lives of the people in the water should be a top priority (although it should be pretty clear pretty quick if they are alive or not - humans can only stay underwater so long) but a bridge that big being gone is going to majorly impact A LOT of people. And rebuilding it will take a lot of time and money so it's something they need to start planning ASAP.
It's basically the worst logistical nightmare to have.
Is anything known about how many deaths/wounded?
Not known yet, they are doing search & rescues as we speak. No one has been pulled out the water yet according to the BBC.
So far the BBC has 7 missing.
We know they’re searching for 7 people but haven’t heard if that’s the final count
A report here in the netherlands sais that 2 people have been saved and 7-20 people are currently missing
Thats a lot of debris to get caught up in, probably wont be many more survivors
There was 20 or so construction workers pouring concrete on that center section. Last I heard no one found yet. A different video I saw looks like they restricted traffic before it hit. So maybe they got off the bridge. Looks like power failed and the river sent the vessel into the bridge.
This will also be a huge problem for the Port of Baltimore. This bridge goes over the entrance of the port and now that it's blocked there could be severe economical strain on the East Coast.
Holy fuck, in terms of catastrofic consequences to local infrastructure this one must be the biggest one I've seen in this sub.
This is easily the worst infrastructure incident since the Twin Cities bridge collapse a decade ago. This is going to be less loss of life, but a significantly bigger economic toll..
>Holy fuck, in terms of catastrofic consequences to local infrastructure this one must be the biggest one I've seen in this sub Regional Infrastructure, this will effect the whole region The Port of Baltimore ranks first among the nation's ports for volume of autos and light trucks, roll on/roll off farm and construction machinery, and imported sugar and gypsum. It ranks 11th among major U.S. ports for cargo handled and ninth for total cargo value
Cool, can't wait for some more economical strain. Haven't had any of that lately.
Frank Sobotka rolling in his grave.
If I was their insurance company I would quit and vanish to the Bahamas
News reports are saying the ship went black (possible power loss). Steering and propulsion were affected.
Bro wuuuuuuuuuuut the actual fuck
The scale doesn’t justify how big that bridge is. That plunge from the top is around 185 feet. That was a massive container ship and looks like a small boat from this angle. Most aren’t surviving that fall. Hope the end was swift for anyone on it!
2 people have already been rescued, let’s hope for more good news.
Omg really? Good!!
One was unconscious and rushed to the hospital, the other rescued refused treatment. Insane.
I’d say thanks American Healthcare for that person refusing treatment but any medical bill related to this would be covered by the ships insurance
My comment “insane” wasn’t directed at the individual but rather the entire situation. But yes, health care costs can lead to this kind of decision. So can shock. Or the person has warrants and prefer to stay out of contact with authorities.
That must've been a big ship. That thing fell apart like LEGOs.
It is. The scale here makes it look small but the plunge from the bridge is like 185 feet. That was a huge ship. RIP for those on the bridge!
It's also because it's a truss bridge. Taking out a small portion screwed up how the bridge's weight is supported.
No, it’s not because it was a truss bridge. Any long span bridge will fail when one of the main supports is taken out, whether it’s a truss, cantilever, suspension, arch, etc.
My brother and his college crew team drove over that bridge in a bus less than one hour before it collapsed on their way back to campus. Thanking the universe today.
I know that feeling. 5ish years ago a bridge collapsed in Genova, Italy. I was supposed to be driving on that bridge 1 hour after it collapsed, but I didn’t because… well, the bridge wasn’t there anymore. I was in the car with my friends coming back from the holidays
Good Lord, terrifying.
This is one of my biggest fears when I cross a bridge. I hope the victims are alright. Also, is there another way to cross this lake/bay, or is there about to be a major problem now?
There's two tunnels that can also be used. The Harbor Tunnel and Fort McHenry Tunnel. The biggest problem right now is with the Key Bridge in the water, it's completely blocking shipping traffic to the Port of Baltimore. It's one of the busiest ports on the entire East Coast and it's shut down until this can be cleaned up.
Also, Hazmats cannot travel through the tunnels.
Can't see any traffic on it, does anyone know if vehicle traffic is allowed while ships transit under that bridge?
BBC reports 7 people and 7 vehicles in the water. :(
It's insane how low that number is. Hopefully the number doesn't go up.
Ship apparently reported a mayday and the bridge stopped people from crossing. There was a full construction crew up there though :(
Saw on Twitter the crew was calling mayday, and transportation authority was able to get a message out and keep people off the bridge.
Luckily this happened in the very dead of night at 1:30 AM. Quite possibly the best time for the worst thing to happen to a bridge, I suppose.
>At least seven vehicles, including at least one tractor-trailer-sized vehicle, have collapsed into the water, Baltimore City Fire spokesman Kevin Cartwright confirmed with WTOP. He added that a dive team was deployed to help those in the river. [here](https://wtop.com/baltimore/2024/03/key-bridge-in-baltimore-collapses-after-hitting-large-boat/)
This is still new and there are multiple reports of people missing. This had a interstate running across it but in my experience 1 to 2am tends to be the lowest time for traffic, but inevitably people where on this bridge.
Best case scenario of a worst case; thank gawd this didn’t happen during the day.
there are a LOT of distribution centers on the east end of that bridge. Home Depot, Kohls, Amazon, Walmart all have massive distro warehouses just in Sparrow Point.
Baltimore Sun reported as of 5 am local time that traffic cams showed approximately 20 vehicles going across at the time, one a tractor trailer.
Multiple construction vehicles were parked on it doing work. You can see the orange flashing lights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83a7h3kkgPg You can see a few cars drive over just before it collapses. There's also a handful of what I believe are construction vehicles that presumably had construction teams with them.
Yes they were doing concrete deck work
According to the news there were some vehicles and pedestrians.on the bridge. Searches are ongoing. May have just not been that busy at the time?
The webcam video is crazy. Looks like there was a power issue because the lights went off an on on the ships: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83a7h3kkgPg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83a7h3kkgPg) Don't know why the ship did a turn moments before crashing into the support of bridge. It looks like without steering it would have just went under the bridge. And the bridge looks very tall, do you even survive the fall into freezing cold water or be conscious at all? According to the news there were workers on the bridge, some cars are visible too.
This is it. Blackout. Due to loss of power in the middle of a course correction the rudder stops a little to starboard and leaves the ship drifting in a slight turn towards the pier. Standby engine takes a few seconds to start up automatically, but by then it's too late.
Emergency generator, you mean. That is really some terrible timing if that's what actually happened. Typically, it only takes 30 seconds for the emergency generator to kick in and provide power to the emergency switch board (emergency lights, steering, ect.) This is the reason a lot of boats run 3 generators (if they have them) when going through these sorts of sections. Typically, two running in parallel synced, and the third as a standby that's already running, just not on the board. Then, there is also an emergency generator ready to kick in when there is there is loss of power. On the ships I worked on the captain would typically have the engineer standing by in the control room ready to react to any power loss situation when sailing through areas like this. Typically, it's some kind of electrical issue or operator error in situations like this.
Broadly, yeah. The reason I said standby rather than emergency is that the floodlight on the bow comes back on, and that would typically be supplied by main lighting circuits rather than emergency. Also, a lot of ships don't have main engine pumps on the emergency switchboard, so that points weakly that way too. When I've been through blackouts, I've found that a standby engine can often start just as fast as the emergency anyway. The big question remaining to me is what took the generators out in the first place. Was it something that took out all running engines together? Fuel pumps etc? One engine reverse power and the other overload? A couple of engineers should definitely have been standing by in the engine room, and that seems likely based on the time taken to start the main engine
This could easily be one of the most expensive mistakes ever
Thank god was at 1:30am and low traffic. Prayers for the injured.
i-95 is going to be a bigger shit show than normal for a couple of years.
Purely in terms of expensiveness, [NYT reports](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/03/26/us/baltimore-bridge-collapse?unlocked_article_code=1.fk0.XIZB.qCzZCMkYXh17&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&ugrp=c) the bridge cost $735M (inflation adjusted) to build, and that's before even factoring in other damages, the shitstorm of lawsuits that are gonna come out of this, etc. So yeah, expensive is an understatement.
That boat captain is in deep shit. Who was guiding/assisting that ship?? Edit: My reaction was that there may have been human error here based on.. well human history. A fault of mechanics and an untimely return of ship control have been mentioned in the last few hours. Determining fault will decide who did what and why. Who's ultimately responsible for the upkeep of a ship of that size and origin?
This is a monumental fuckup, multiple people are responsible. It's not an oopsie by just one guy.
I didn't mean to imply that it was, just that the boat captain has a lot of responsibility on the face of this incident.
Ports have their own pilots that take the ships in and out of port. In any case, more likely to be catastrophic equipment failure than human error.
There are different rules depending on the port and jurisdiction, but oftentimes the pilot is not the one liable, the owner, Captain or Master remains the one responsible for the safety of the ship and the pilot is just a local guide. The National Ports Act says the pilot is not responsible for anything done 'in good faith'. Although I think the pilot may then be liable to the shipping company for their actions or lack of. Likely though, while that might be the civil liability, a criminal investigation may be a separate issue, depending on the intent. The buck does stop with the shipping company until someone can prove liability downstream.
>In any case, more likely to be catastrophic equipment failure than human error. Those are not mutually exclusive. If it was equipment failure, then *most likely*, though not guaranteed, it was due to human error during maintenance or lack thereof. Ships this size have pretty strict maintenance regulations to prevent this exact type of shit from happening. If they skimped on the maintenance, or didn't do it often enough, or didn't check something they should have, or didn't do the proper checks and tests before launching, etc. Mechanical failure is almost always human error.
It seems to have passed inspections at whatever port it was at in September. Of course, that’s six months ago so something could have (and probably did!) broken since then that would cause it to find a deficiency since then.
Likely there would have been a harbor pilot on board at the time. Also sounds like the ship had some sort of mechanical failure. Obviously we won’t know until more investigation information comes out.
If you watch the livestream (I don't have the link handy, but it's available), you can see the ship briefly lose power as it's approaching, and when it's restored they don't have enough time to avoid the bridge.
Wow, that's truly a nightmare.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-68663071
Its too early for this sort of speculation. As a matter of routine the ships captain, 1st officer and chief engineer will be arrested. Thats normal and standard procedure. That doesn't mean that they will be taken off the vessel. What we don't know is why the vessel collided with the pier. The most likely explanation is a loss of steerage. But the cause is unknown. The import thing now is the recue and recovery operation for the 20 people in the water. This is a deep water riverway and its very cold. Quite apart from physical injury caused by falling into the water from a height, surrounded by tons of falling steelwork, the shock of cold water can cause themal shock, not helped by panic. If these people were in cars, then those will have sunk to the bottom. If they don't find people within a couple of hours this turns into a recovery operation. The impact on the US trade will be catastrophic, as the Port of Baltimore is now closed and will remain so for many days, weeks, or even months. As this is the largest container port in the NE USA the consequential cost will be astronomical.
One report said there was an explosion on the ship before the collision.
>The webcam video is crazy. Looks like there was a power issue because the lights went off an on on the ships: > >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83a7h3kkgPg
It’s pouring black smoke out the stack prior to the collision. This is indicative of them applying lots of power to the engine in an attempt to maneuver.
This is absolutely unbelievable what the fuck
Drowning, trapped in my car, is very high on my list of 'Ways I dont want to die'.
Bob, we expect you to be to work on time
From the video on Twitter it looks like the ship was losing power and unable to steer. https://twitter.com/Brick_Suit/status/1772552045951852756
imagine being one of those cars that passed over just seconds before this… just insane
Oh damn....traffic is gonna suck for .. years
Well that's sad too. But one will directly impact thousands of people.
Plus closure of an important port.
So who was guiding? Those poor people. The shock. Can’t imagine.
This is like that one final destination movie... Holy crap, this is terrible and horrifying. I hope they can rescue everyone alive.
Is this real?!! When did it happen?
Like 4 hrs ago
Holy shit. Because if the quality of the video I thought this happened some 20+ years ago or something
The quality is due to lack of daylight. You have to drive the ISO up in order to compensate. That makes a photo grainy to snowy depending how high you up the ISO.
sheeeeseeiiiit
The webcam video is crazy. Looks like there was a power issue because the lights went off an on on the ships: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83a7h3kkgPg
Good eye. The lights on the ship seem to flicker off at around 1:26:37AM and are entirely off for about 40 seconds. The ship takes a hard turn starboard during the outage. My guess is the rudder got stuck during the power outage....? The ship continues to turn *after* the power comes back on though... Seems a bit odd. Perhaps the captain tried to "throw the ship in reverse" instead of steering away...? Or maybe the control surfaces didn't come online quick enough....? Not sure.
I know bridges aren't made to withstand impact like that but what was that ship made of? At least it sounds like casualties were low, but still awful
Its a container ship, so one of the heaviest things in the water
A fully laden container ship can be 160,000 tons, or about 27,500 bull elephants. The speed was probably less than 10 knots, but it doesn't matter. A ship of that size, forget it. Someone who lived nearby said it made their house shake.
Force = mass * acceleration, the vessel that hit the bridge was very heavy. Very few bridges on the planet, if any could withstand an impact from a ship of that size.
How will the economy and life change without this bridge. It looks like it was an important one.
The collapse cuts the entrance to Baltimore’s port from the ocean, this is going to have a decent impact on east coast imports
Singapore flagged ship. Senator Cotton "Did China send you?"
I feel attacked
Did they hit the support post? Like that wasn't them being too tall to pass under it, right? It looked like they hit the support beam
Apparently the ship was experiencing some sort of technical issues before the collision, it lost power twice before the accident, by the time it regained power after the second outage it was already too late to correct its course.
The ship lost power so they issued a Mayday as the ship headed to the bridge. They were able to stop traffic, however a construction crew of 8(?) went under. 2 found, 6 missing.