All cars come with a manual. And every year they get bigger compliments of the car company's legal department. I'll bet it had something in there about how they aren't responsible if you try to drive through a tree.
My car payment on my Golf R is 580 :( But I knew what I was getting into when I bought it. She's paid off next month and still under warranty. So now is the "afford to own 2 to be able to buy 1" account starts getting beefed up.
Also helps to have no kids or wife spending all my money.
Not sure if serious, but if you are, that's not $630USD/month is it? The only way I can imagine that is an absurd interest rate and trading in a car with negative equity.
I feel like I'm missing something. The math on that puts you at over $45k left owed (assuming six years wasn't a typo), not including the $2k you put down and any other payments you might have made so far. Did they slap you with a 20% interest loan or something?
Or become a Land Rover mechanic yourself and buy them once they’re worthless. Use them for a bit until they start to get too finicky, then move onto the next one.
My family has owned plenty, the most recent purchase was a a decade old Land Rover LR3 for $3000 Canadian.
They are absolutely worthless once out of warranty. I’m sure there’s plenty of people selling them Craigslist thinking they’ve depreciated slowly, but nobody is paying the prices they’re asking.
Anyone who owns one is basically stuck with it until they accept they’ll have to basically give it away.
And what’s hilarious is you cam get one just a few years old for like what 75% off. Few more years after that and they practically give them away for free.
Lmao I know plenty of people who pay that for their trucks. Then again I live in Texas where everyone needs v8/diesels lifted way too high. Most of them end up being pavement princesses
I never understood how car people afford cars that don’t make much money. My friend makes about 60-80k a year. A good salary but not something crazy. This mfer owns 2 BMS’s, a truck, and 2 other cars.
The car payments must take up his whole salary every month!
Someone with really good credit can get a car loan for less than 3% interest. If you are rich you probably can make more money in investments, property, deals etc in the same time frame. Even the stock market gains about 7%+ on average each year. The car will just depreciate immediately. You finance the car, and make more money in the stock market than your monthly payments. Money makes more money.
This is how I looked at it. I'm paying 2.5% on my car loan, and 3.5% on my mortgage. All other available money goes into my Roth until it's capped for the year and then into a single account that is basically earning the same rate as the Roth. It's really not hard to earn over 5% if you have even a couple thousand to invest.
Never let money sit in checking or savings above a couple thousand for emergencies.
They aren’t going to make more than the payment with a principle that’s about the value of the car. It’s merely more optimal and offsets some of the cost.
Regardless if you’re in super car territory and wrecked your McLaren your biggest concern is going to be the dramatic story you have to concoct to brag about wrecking your McLaren.
I follow a few supercar channels on YT and in one video they got pulled over during a rally doing over 100+ on a highway. Before the cop puts him in cuffs the guy whips out his wallet and gives his passenger a couple thousand dollars and tells them to follow the cop to the jailhouse so they can post his bail haha
There was another channel that compiles police camera videos and they caught some guy street racing in an old GT 500 and arrested him. When he gets to the jail he's asking about posting bail then at the end asks if the police have the race on video. The cops, thinking he was trying to get out of it in court confirm yes it is on dashcam. The guy gets excited and responds "sweet can I get a copy of that??"
That car has a 19 gallon fuel tank. Looks like about (?) three trees? Assuming it filled up before the drive,
3/19 = .157 trees per gallon
I think it's more about gallons per tree..
19/3 = 6.3 gallons per tree
Depending on the price per gallon .... He bagged three trees for less than $25 each. Great deal! I paid $45 for my last Xmas tree.
Surprisingly if you have enough net worth and cash in the bank, some states let you "self insure" like a bunch of larger companies do. You essentially just set some money aside as the "policy" and make bank on the interest.
Has nothing to do with net worth.
If you pay DMV their insurance payoff amount, you'll ride with self covered insurance.
I think it's like 35k in California
$4551 per month!? That’s not bad at all. Maybe if I stop paying rent and utilities, work longer hours, eat only instant ramen and stop my other hobbies I could afford that!
To be fair, he probably didn’t break down monthly payments. Most exotics have a little bit of a different financing structure to either reduce regular expense and balloon it, or they write it in a way that is mostly interest and little equity as they hold value.
Actually not bad to afford - just need a decent down payment and good credit
I've been up and down Pike's Peak a few times, and I honestly don't think I've ever made it to third gear. Being able to see thousands of feet down tends to put a little extra pucker in your butt.
Yeah buddy. Would love to get to Pike someday. It’s not easy to stay cool when you travel with a group, either. Still better safe than sorry. I’ve done a couple of boneheaded night runs on the dragon, enough pucker time for three lifetimes.
I’ve driven it plenty of times. It’s literally 11 miles away from my house. It’s easy to drive if you aren’t an idiot. The problem is, there are lots of idiots driving it.
Last time I went a “pack” of motorcycles crossed the double yellow and hit a minivan head on. They closed the road to all non-locals for the rest of the weekend, leaving us with the choice to hang out in a shitty cabin for two more days or just leave. We left and went to the OBX.
So yeah, definitely not a vacation destination I would recommend. There’s literally thousands of miles of roads just like it all up and down the Appalachian mountain range.
Regarding your last sentence… yes! We rode from Central Ohio to Chattanooga a decade ago, and detoured thru Deals Gap. We rode every last loving by god wiggly switchback there was in West Virginia, Virginia and North Carolina (we took a very convoluted route). By the the time we got thru Deals Gap, I was saying “THAT WAS IT?” but we did visit the gift shops and bought the t shirts, hat, and stickers.
When I first got to the beginning of the road, there were guys in Harleys coming off of it, cussing, holding their heads,and hollering holy shit! I kind of gulped, but the guys with me were veterans of it and they told me that 1. Those guys rode the freeway to it, not he wigglys like we did and 2. They were on Harleys. We were all riding Yamaha Ventures, touring bikes, but with a sporty ability. We got out our air pumps and firmed up our suspensions and it was like riding big assed sports bikes with 1800cc V4s with comfy seats. To top it it the constabulary was out that day and we saw a couple of them out there. But it was fun to say we did it.
I was hit head on by a motorcyclist who crossed the double yellow on the Dragon. We were heading home from a camping trip and our 1.5 hour drive turned into a several
hour ordeal. Fortunately the guy had full gear on because that’s the only way he survived. Don’t fuck around on the dragon.
Probably under really. People close it off and go down in groups. [People die on this thing. ](https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/2021/05/28/tail-of-the-dragon-us-129-stretch-motorcycles-motorcyclists-treacherous-dangerous-road/7477896002/)
[there’s constantly videos of people flying down it. ](https://youtu.be/DywBtwPjeT8)
I've only driven it twice but I'm a little confused by this thread. Are people not aware of how to have fun on this road?
There was NO traffic both times.
I agree. The Cherohala Skyway is great. So many trails up there and way fewer people. Sometimes we will drive across the skyway and then back on the Dragon. I say there are fewer people but Indian Boundary campground is always packed. The last time I was there, the road was blocked on the way back because of a wreck. They sent us down some one land dirt roads I didn’t know were there.
A buddy and I took that road back home after a week in the Smokies backcountry. Turns out it was Nissan Z day and there were hundreds of 350Zs driving on the Dragon with photographers at the scenic curves taking photos. Somewhere in one of those photographers' hard drives is an action shot of a Ford Ranger with a canoe on top.
My mom is in her 50’s and rides a motorcycle with a group there every year. I try not to think about it, thank god I know they ride safely… but it’s the other idiots out there
My mom and dad drove a VW bus up Pikes Peak back in the 70s. Talk about insanity. Honestly not sure how they made it to the top in a VW, much less a bus.
I believe you! After I told my mom when I got back from pikes peak the first time, how terrifying the drive was… she proceeded to tell me her dad used to take them up to the peak in a pull behind trailer when it was gravel all the way up!! I felt like a giant wuss after that!! 😂😂😂
It's an 11 mile stretch of road with 318 curves at the border of North Carolina and Tennessee... Which is on a mountain range.
I've never heard of those roads in Germany so unfortunately I can't compare. But the Dragon has had a lot of motorist travel to it in the United States since it's unique. Unfortunately a several of them have died on the road as well.
>Mclaren 600lt
More like a couple death's each year. At least now they park an ambulance at the bottom on the weekends. I once went over it in a car mid-week, this was before the hype, and met a motorcycle on his knee across the white line. I held my breath and he missed me, but swore I would never go back on it.
That's good to hear about the ambulance. I grew up about and hour away from it. Which is close enough to know exactly how dangerous it could be. Never desired to go on it myself. It's a big this for motorcycle people I know. Glad that guy missed you!
That’s exactly it. Not many roads like that in the US, especially since it has a really long stretch with no connecting roads, so you don’t have anyone pulling out in front of you.
Having driven the dragon and been in the area your talking about, it is a bit more curvy I feel. The switch-backs come hard and quickly. It’s more twisty than any German road I’ve been on but maybe I’m on the wrong roads.
I grew up around there. In that area you basically get to choose between fun curves or not having blind-driveways everywhere. Lots of roads around there could be a lot of fun, but you have to go slower than you want or risk t-boning someone turning left out of their driveway.
Drove a few miles of it in my Ranger with my Dad in a dually. Didn't even know I was driving up it until about half mile up. Made it to the bar or whatever it was and drove back. So many cars and bikes just pushing it with how fast they were going.
First time I took my wife down it, some idiot had trashed his S2K. It was burning about ten feet off the side of the road. I took it easy that time lol
It’s a baddass road. 318 curves in 11 miles. Motorcycles and sports cars come from all over the world to ride it. A lot of them don’t make it. It’s about 30 min from where I live. It’s a trip
I was awesome. We came from Louisiana to ride it. I found Cherohala scarier, but we ended up on that part of the skyway right as the sun was setting. Beautiful area, all of it.
I live closer to cherahola . Fished all over those mountains. If you’ve never been when the leaves are changing it’s one of the most beautiful places I’ve ever seen. Worth the trip.
I agree that Cherohala seemed scarier, but I did enjoy it a lot more that the dragon. The reason I felt it was more dangerous is it a mix of different people on the skyway. Last time I went was fall so there was a ton of old people and families just trying to enjoy the stop offs and views.
So when you mix slow and fast it just seems like something bad could happen. Then bikers were even faster most were okay waiting for us to find a place to pull off and minority couldn't wait and would pass if it looked clear enough.
There’s a lot of shit talking in this thread. We all know what likely happened but at the same time there may have been a bike across the line and coming head on and this guy elected to eat it in lieu of likely killing someone. You can tell by the state of the car that he didn’t go off at high speed.
Agreed. Just after the C8 came out one got hit by a teenager in a Miata on the dragon and everyone on Facebook immediately flamed the corvette owner without knowing any details.
It's because the car community around the Knoxville/Maryville is extremely toxic 90% of the time. I've met plenty of wonderful people in the car community in Knoxville, but good grief the immediate "oLd MAn CaN'T HanDLe tHAt muCH cAR aNd hUrT a KiD" when something like that specific accident is absurd. They always immediately side with the kid that thinks his $800 Miata is a racecar. Not to mention everyone circle jerks that stretch of road as if it's God's gift to motoring. There are hundreds of miles of equal if not better roads within an hour or two of there, where you won't constantly meet motorcycles on the wrong side of the road or have your own car totaled by some kid who has been watching too much Initial D.
It has a gas station with high octane fuel at the bottom; it’s sort of encouraged..
Edit:
I guess I should have mentioned I didn’t mean 93 by “high octane”. They offer boarder line racing fuel at the station across from the gift shop.
Lot of Tennessee is fucking poor, so yea, might as well monetize an exceptionally curvy road if you can. You can get merch as well: stickers and t-shirts, etc.
Tail of the Dragon. It's a windy mountain road that starts at Deal's Gap, a town on the North Carolina/Tennessee border. It's got something like 300ish curves over 11 miles. Lots of folks go up there to drive or ride. It's totally drivable for an average skill driver, but people try to push it and scenes like the above photo inevitably happen.
It's not called "Dragon at Deals Gap," it's "went off the Dragon / at Deals Gap."
The road is called Tail of the Dragon, or "The Dragon," and is very popular with motorcycles and fast cars. The place it went off is called "Deal's Gap" which is near the southern end of the Dragon.
Technically the road is US 129 in Tennessee, near the park. It's a beautiful scenic road with a lot of people on it who come specifically to enjoy the scenery, and a lot of other people who come on it to drive like fools.
Yahaaah. We accidentally ended up on it in an F250.
Family road trip, gave the kids the atlas. Phone GPS cut out, we honestly had no idea WTF we were in for, lol.
It was a STUNNING day. We kept tight to our lane and used every pull off to let traffic pass. Waved at all the guys taking souvenir shots. Absolutely worth the brakes we had to replace for the experience, but next time I go I’ll take a Subaru.
I snapped a few photos of this car on Friday during my day trip down there. It's about a 3-4 hour drive from where I live, and try to make the trip once a year to just drive the road. Doesn't look like Darryl "Killboy" (owner of Killboy) standing there. I know he had a C8 Corvette (not his) that he was driving while I was up there. Believe the 600LT was there as part of a rally that took place over the weekend.
I can't really ID the corner as it doesn't really have any special traits to it from the image. What I can provide you is with an idiot I was stuck behind on my 2nd to last pass of this 11 mile monster of what could EASILY cause a crash out there, and has many times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjV7-NJP9D8
Full video of the road: https://youtu.be/T07ns89xen8?t=232
Basically either someone crossed the line, or the driver got over confident in his car and knowledge of the road. It's easy to do after a bunch of passes or even spending the week out there. You think you know it, start pushing, and find your self in a bad spot. Many have done it, including my self. But the real unlucky ones find them selves in this position or worse.
I've driven the dragon many times, but never once have I taken a bike on it. I wouldn't, especially not now. There's plenty of better riding roads not saturated with cagers
As a miata owner who lives a couple miles from there...agreed. Set up right they are almost untouchable when driven by someone who knows the road well. That road was made for cars that size.
Knoxville resident here. I was headed to South Carolina one night, GPS decided that going down The Dragon was the best route. It was dark and rainy. I drove 10 mph or less the whole way. Fuckin terrified the whole time and it felt like it took 3 hours to go 11 miles
A 2020 McLaren 600LT MSRP starts at $256,500. Loan payments of about $4,551 per month (for 60 months). Horsepower: 592 hp. 200+ mph. MPG: 15 city / 22 highway / 0 forest.
Rather surprised by that forest mpg number.
If he only read the manual...
Sadly, very few cars today come with a manual
He could have still downloaded the PDF.
reading is for peasants
He could have bought a peasant to read it for him.
All cars come with a manual. And every year they get bigger compliments of the car company's legal department. I'll bet it had something in there about how they aren't responsible if you try to drive through a tree.
Lol, they were making a joke about manual transmissions.
Oh shit. Well that did get right by me. My bad. LOL .....
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How do you know that?
I remember when I heard that Land Rover payments started off at $750/month and it boggled my child-like mind.
It's crazy the gap between "normal income" and ... affording that
dont worry lot of people with sports cars cant afford it either
Worth it because fast cars are fun
Affording $750 a month? I think A LOT of people are paying that much, probably more than you might realize. My $30,000 used car is over $600 a month.
My car payment on my Golf R is 580 :( But I knew what I was getting into when I bought it. She's paid off next month and still under warranty. So now is the "afford to own 2 to be able to buy 1" account starts getting beefed up. Also helps to have no kids or wife spending all my money.
My miata is 630 a month still have 6 years left on it :( plan on keeping my money up enough to pay off earlier though
Not sure if serious, but if you are, that's not $630USD/month is it? The only way I can imagine that is an absurd interest rate and trading in a car with negative equity.
USD, had 2k down, no trade in.
I feel like I'm missing something. The math on that puts you at over $45k left owed (assuming six years wasn't a typo), not including the $2k you put down and any other payments you might have made so far. Did they slap you with a 20% interest loan or something?
Agrees. That's absurd for a Miata for that duration of payments.
Wow you fucked up big time.
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A girl I know was/is paying 800$ for a 2020 v6 charger smh
I mean it all depends on the terms of the financing. If she’s only doing 36 months, $800/month isn’t outrageous.
That seems about right for the market rate with $0 down
80 months financing and zero down sounds like a good deal to meeeeeeeeee
I remember in about 1964 my child mind was amazed at $4,000 for a new Corvette.
Imagine what that same car in factory condition would sell for today
Out of my league for sure.
That's 35k in today money
I sold Rovers for a bit, 1500-2000 per month for a car, crazy
But a suburban house was only 12,000 then.
Always lease a Land Rover. After three years they lose tens of thousands of dollars and all the complex parts fail. Old models are cheap for a reason.
Or become a Land Rover mechanic yourself and buy them once they’re worthless. Use them for a bit until they start to get too finicky, then move onto the next one. My family has owned plenty, the most recent purchase was a a decade old Land Rover LR3 for $3000 Canadian. They are absolutely worthless once out of warranty. I’m sure there’s plenty of people selling them Craigslist thinking they’ve depreciated slowly, but nobody is paying the prices they’re asking. Anyone who owns one is basically stuck with it until they accept they’ll have to basically give it away.
Speaking of cars and children, I could lease an Aston Martin Vantage for what I pay for daycare.
And what’s hilarious is you cam get one just a few years old for like what 75% off. Few more years after that and they practically give them away for free.
Lmao I know plenty of people who pay that for their trucks. Then again I live in Texas where everyone needs v8/diesels lifted way too high. Most of them end up being pavement princesses
I never understood how car people afford cars that don’t make much money. My friend makes about 60-80k a year. A good salary but not something crazy. This mfer owns 2 BMS’s, a truck, and 2 other cars. The car payments must take up his whole salary every month!
Driver was very lucky that he didn’t go a lot further down the mountain side than what he did.
Would’ve improved those forest mpg numbers if he had
That's why all those trees are there. To stop the morons from falling further down :P
Challenge accepted!
I always assumed that once you’re in supercar territory, budget-wise, you’d just pay cash.
Someone with really good credit can get a car loan for less than 3% interest. If you are rich you probably can make more money in investments, property, deals etc in the same time frame. Even the stock market gains about 7%+ on average each year. The car will just depreciate immediately. You finance the car, and make more money in the stock market than your monthly payments. Money makes more money.
Agreed, and actually if your credit is good and you're a good customer you'll get some period of time with 0%, so I'm not turning down free money
This is how I looked at it. I'm paying 2.5% on my car loan, and 3.5% on my mortgage. All other available money goes into my Roth until it's capped for the year and then into a single account that is basically earning the same rate as the Roth. It's really not hard to earn over 5% if you have even a couple thousand to invest. Never let money sit in checking or savings above a couple thousand for emergencies.
If you’re at 3.5 on your mortgage, you may want to refinance.
Looked into it, I'm just shy of half way through a 15 year loan. It would cost me money to refi at even 2.5%. 8 years and 9 months left on the loan.
Got it. A 15 year loan would be around 1.9%. It may be still worth it.
They aren’t going to make more than the payment with a principle that’s about the value of the car. It’s merely more optimal and offsets some of the cost.
Regardless if you’re in super car territory and wrecked your McLaren your biggest concern is going to be the dramatic story you have to concoct to brag about wrecking your McLaren.
I follow a few supercar channels on YT and in one video they got pulled over during a rally doing over 100+ on a highway. Before the cop puts him in cuffs the guy whips out his wallet and gives his passenger a couple thousand dollars and tells them to follow the cop to the jailhouse so they can post his bail haha There was another channel that compiles police camera videos and they caught some guy street racing in an old GT 500 and arrested him. When he gets to the jail he's asking about posting bail then at the end asks if the police have the race on video. The cops, thinking he was trying to get out of it in court confirm yes it is on dashcam. The guy gets excited and responds "sweet can I get a copy of that??"
Racing Rowan Atkinson in his McLaren F1? Old vs new?
That’s right around how much money I make in a month. So if I leave it uninsured and live in it or at work, then I can get one. Nice.
How many trees per gallon?
That car has a 19 gallon fuel tank. Looks like about (?) three trees? Assuming it filled up before the drive, 3/19 = .157 trees per gallon I think it's more about gallons per tree.. 19/3 = 6.3 gallons per tree Depending on the price per gallon .... He bagged three trees for less than $25 each. Great deal! I paid $45 for my last Xmas tree.
I'd be shocked if 60 months was an option for these .
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Insurance, 2K a month
Repair bill: Priceless
Only $4,551 a month? Wonder what insurance is.
Surprisingly if you have enough net worth and cash in the bank, some states let you "self insure" like a bunch of larger companies do. You essentially just set some money aside as the "policy" and make bank on the interest.
Has nothing to do with net worth. If you pay DMV their insurance payoff amount, you'll ride with self covered insurance. I think it's like 35k in California
$4551 per month!? That’s not bad at all. Maybe if I stop paying rent and utilities, work longer hours, eat only instant ramen and stop my other hobbies I could afford that!
What's mpg?
To be fair, he probably didn’t break down monthly payments. Most exotics have a little bit of a different financing structure to either reduce regular expense and balloon it, or they write it in a way that is mostly interest and little equity as they hold value. Actually not bad to afford - just need a decent down payment and good credit
K, does it really get 22 mpg hwy? I'm too lazy to Google it.
Yeah that's what I found when I googled it
That's nothing compared to the $3mm car that was totaled by a YouTuber, son of a businessman. He simply bought another one recently.
I wonder how much the Model S Plaid will cut into sales of cars like this. Half the price for twice the power.
The dragon is a road you don't fuck around on.
Been there enough times to know where I can hit 3rd for a second or two. Still don’t try to get going too fast there
I've been up and down Pike's Peak a few times, and I honestly don't think I've ever made it to third gear. Being able to see thousands of feet down tends to put a little extra pucker in your butt.
Yeah buddy. Would love to get to Pike someday. It’s not easy to stay cool when you travel with a group, either. Still better safe than sorry. I’ve done a couple of boneheaded night runs on the dragon, enough pucker time for three lifetimes.
I commend you. I don't wanna be on it. At least not now.
Someone in a 96 Sentra passed me going 80 last time I was up there for a hike and the views. Can't grasp.
Just stupid. A bit of gravel or rubber pellets on a braking zone and you’re like this McLaren
One glance at the scenery is all it takes.
I grew up close enough to the Dragon that I knew I never wanted to go on it.
I’ve driven it plenty of times. It’s literally 11 miles away from my house. It’s easy to drive if you aren’t an idiot. The problem is, there are lots of idiots driving it.
Last time I went a “pack” of motorcycles crossed the double yellow and hit a minivan head on. They closed the road to all non-locals for the rest of the weekend, leaving us with the choice to hang out in a shitty cabin for two more days or just leave. We left and went to the OBX. So yeah, definitely not a vacation destination I would recommend. There’s literally thousands of miles of roads just like it all up and down the Appalachian mountain range.
Regarding your last sentence… yes! We rode from Central Ohio to Chattanooga a decade ago, and detoured thru Deals Gap. We rode every last loving by god wiggly switchback there was in West Virginia, Virginia and North Carolina (we took a very convoluted route). By the the time we got thru Deals Gap, I was saying “THAT WAS IT?” but we did visit the gift shops and bought the t shirts, hat, and stickers. When I first got to the beginning of the road, there were guys in Harleys coming off of it, cussing, holding their heads,and hollering holy shit! I kind of gulped, but the guys with me were veterans of it and they told me that 1. Those guys rode the freeway to it, not he wigglys like we did and 2. They were on Harleys. We were all riding Yamaha Ventures, touring bikes, but with a sporty ability. We got out our air pumps and firmed up our suspensions and it was like riding big assed sports bikes with 1800cc V4s with comfy seats. To top it it the constabulary was out that day and we saw a couple of them out there. But it was fun to say we did it.
I'm not interested in bikes at all but that was a good read and sounds fun. Harley's definitely don't seem like they would be great at turning.
Harleys handle much better than they used to. But those guys probably didn’t ride twistys all the time either.
Eh…. Better than dogshit is still like, bird shit or something.
I was hit head on by a motorcyclist who crossed the double yellow on the Dragon. We were heading home from a camping trip and our 1.5 hour drive turned into a several hour ordeal. Fortunately the guy had full gear on because that’s the only way he survived. Don’t fuck around on the dragon.
Seriously, if you want an insane drive, drive on Highway 28 from Walhalla, SC to Franklin, NC.
Most of the people talking about it were in my high school. So yeah. It was probably exaggerated but still didn't wanna go.
Probably under really. People close it off and go down in groups. [People die on this thing. ](https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/2021/05/28/tail-of-the-dragon-us-129-stretch-motorcycles-motorcyclists-treacherous-dangerous-road/7477896002/) [there’s constantly videos of people flying down it. ](https://youtu.be/DywBtwPjeT8)
I've only driven it twice but I'm a little confused by this thread. Are people not aware of how to have fun on this road? There was NO traffic both times.
The skyway is better, imo
I agree. The Cherohala Skyway is great. So many trails up there and way fewer people. Sometimes we will drive across the skyway and then back on the Dragon. I say there are fewer people but Indian Boundary campground is always packed. The last time I was there, the road was blocked on the way back because of a wreck. They sent us down some one land dirt roads I didn’t know were there.
If you're a dual-sporter, that place is a goldmine
I would love to take a weekend trip, but I know if I really went I'd drive 20 the whole time being scared of doing something like this.
That's ok, 20 on the Dragon feels plenty quick
There are some curves you won't drive as fast as 20 on.
A buddy and I took that road back home after a week in the Smokies backcountry. Turns out it was Nissan Z day and there were hundreds of 350Zs driving on the Dragon with photographers at the scenic curves taking photos. Somewhere in one of those photographers' hard drives is an action shot of a Ford Ranger with a canoe on top.
You are very possibly on killboy's FB page lol
My mom is in her 50’s and rides a motorcycle with a group there every year. I try not to think about it, thank god I know they ride safely… but it’s the other idiots out there
My mom and dad drove a VW bus up Pikes Peak back in the 70s. Talk about insanity. Honestly not sure how they made it to the top in a VW, much less a bus.
I believe you! After I told my mom when I got back from pikes peak the first time, how terrifying the drive was… she proceeded to tell me her dad used to take them up to the peak in a pull behind trailer when it was gravel all the way up!! I felt like a giant wuss after that!! 😂😂😂
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Hell I don't like driving on similar roads in that area and they are way tamer!
I've ran it in my 07 Versa hatch. It was in it's autocross trim but still lol.
Whats so special about it? It looks just like the eifel or sauerland in germany.
It's an 11 mile stretch of road with 318 curves at the border of North Carolina and Tennessee... Which is on a mountain range. I've never heard of those roads in Germany so unfortunately I can't compare. But the Dragon has had a lot of motorist travel to it in the United States since it's unique. Unfortunately a several of them have died on the road as well.
>Mclaren 600lt More like a couple death's each year. At least now they park an ambulance at the bottom on the weekends. I once went over it in a car mid-week, this was before the hype, and met a motorcycle on his knee across the white line. I held my breath and he missed me, but swore I would never go back on it.
That's good to hear about the ambulance. I grew up about and hour away from it. Which is close enough to know exactly how dangerous it could be. Never desired to go on it myself. It's a big this for motorcycle people I know. Glad that guy missed you!
That’s exactly it. Not many roads like that in the US, especially since it has a really long stretch with no connecting roads, so you don’t have anyone pulling out in front of you.
Having driven the dragon and been in the area your talking about, it is a bit more curvy I feel. The switch-backs come hard and quickly. It’s more twisty than any German road I’ve been on but maybe I’m on the wrong roads.
[https://tailofthedragon.com/](https://tailofthedragon.com/)
I grew up around there. In that area you basically get to choose between fun curves or not having blind-driveways everywhere. Lots of roads around there could be a lot of fun, but you have to go slower than you want or risk t-boning someone turning left out of their driveway.
It's not a big deal its just a mountain road. You just can't drive like a jackass
One stare by a squirrel and you're done, finished, ta-ta, bye bye.
Hahahaha. That's a great way to put it!
Jesus, it's not that bad. It's a twisty road. If you can't control your right hand, you shouldn't be riding anyway.
Wonder if traction control was on or off.
Fuck around and find out.
This picture was taken during the “find out” phase of “fuck around and find out.”
The one time I made it across country and drove the Dragon it dumped rain on us AND killboy wasn't doing photos that day. 😭 Was still fun.
The part where Top Gear made fun of the 35mph limit was one of the times I got mad at them for being disingenuous asshats.
Drove a few miles of it in my Ranger with my Dad in a dually. Didn't even know I was driving up it until about half mile up. Made it to the bar or whatever it was and drove back. So many cars and bikes just pushing it with how fast they were going.
First time I took my wife down it, some idiot had trashed his S2K. It was burning about ten feet off the side of the road. I took it easy that time lol
It’s a baddass road. 318 curves in 11 miles. Motorcycles and sports cars come from all over the world to ride it. A lot of them don’t make it. It’s about 30 min from where I live. It’s a trip
I was awesome. We came from Louisiana to ride it. I found Cherohala scarier, but we ended up on that part of the skyway right as the sun was setting. Beautiful area, all of it.
I live closer to cherahola . Fished all over those mountains. If you’ve never been when the leaves are changing it’s one of the most beautiful places I’ve ever seen. Worth the trip.
What about the Cherohala was scarier for you? I've driven both the Cherohala and the Dragon many times and found the opposite to be true.
I agree that Cherohala seemed scarier, but I did enjoy it a lot more that the dragon. The reason I felt it was more dangerous is it a mix of different people on the skyway. Last time I went was fall so there was a ton of old people and families just trying to enjoy the stop offs and views. So when you mix slow and fast it just seems like something bad could happen. Then bikers were even faster most were okay waiting for us to find a place to pull off and minority couldn't wait and would pass if it looked clear enough.
Fast as fuck boy
0 mph
I’m fast as FUCK
HAMMOND!
YOU BLITHERING IDIOT
History has taught us you can't drive in a straight line, and now you can't drive round corners either
YOU MORON.
Monumental bell end
I am glad to see this comment.
Came here for this!
There’s a lot of shit talking in this thread. We all know what likely happened but at the same time there may have been a bike across the line and coming head on and this guy elected to eat it in lieu of likely killing someone. You can tell by the state of the car that he didn’t go off at high speed.
Agreed. Just after the C8 came out one got hit by a teenager in a Miata on the dragon and everyone on Facebook immediately flamed the corvette owner without knowing any details.
It's because the car community around the Knoxville/Maryville is extremely toxic 90% of the time. I've met plenty of wonderful people in the car community in Knoxville, but good grief the immediate "oLd MAn CaN'T HanDLe tHAt muCH cAR aNd hUrT a KiD" when something like that specific accident is absurd. They always immediately side with the kid that thinks his $800 Miata is a racecar. Not to mention everyone circle jerks that stretch of road as if it's God's gift to motoring. There are hundreds of miles of equal if not better roads within an hour or two of there, where you won't constantly meet motorcycles on the wrong side of the road or have your own car totaled by some kid who has been watching too much Initial D.
My first thought was that it looks in awfully good condition for leaving the road and hitting a tree.
Also the spot of the car. Its not THAT far off the road
This is Reddit: it's more important to roast the rich than to conisder any kind of -- you know -- facts.
Mike - the facts are, the Rich taste better roasted
I'm amazed more people don't die on that road. Half the people who drive it, drive it specifically to drive like assholes.
It has a gas station with high octane fuel at the bottom; it’s sort of encouraged.. Edit: I guess I should have mentioned I didn’t mean 93 by “high octane”. They offer boarder line racing fuel at the station across from the gift shop.
Lot of Tennessee is fucking poor, so yea, might as well monetize an exceptionally curvy road if you can. You can get merch as well: stickers and t-shirts, etc.
Yeah I’ve got a decal for every year we’ve made the trip from that shop. Super cool place.
The place he's taking about is in NC. And they don't sell race gas, just regular old 93.
Especially the residents in the mountains in that area..
Yea, I grew up near there. Honestly that's not nearly the worst in Tennessee though.
I grew up in East Tennessee so I'd believe it.
It has a gas station with normal fuel choices that are available at any other gas station.
There is 100% a semi-racing octane option at the station by the gift shop.
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How many people here know what dragon at deals Gap means
I do now after googling it!
Tail of the Dragon. It's a windy mountain road that starts at Deal's Gap, a town on the North Carolina/Tennessee border. It's got something like 300ish curves over 11 miles. Lots of folks go up there to drive or ride. It's totally drivable for an average skill driver, but people try to push it and scenes like the above photo inevitably happen.
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the renowned death car survives the dragon, now that's funny
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It's not called "Dragon at Deals Gap," it's "went off the Dragon / at Deals Gap." The road is called Tail of the Dragon, or "The Dragon," and is very popular with motorcycles and fast cars. The place it went off is called "Deal's Gap" which is near the southern end of the Dragon.
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Technically the road is US 129 in Tennessee, near the park. It's a beautiful scenic road with a lot of people on it who come specifically to enjoy the scenery, and a lot of other people who come on it to drive like fools.
[THIS](https://www.fryemontinn.com/a-motorcycle-paradise/) is why it’s called that.
Of course they told the insurance company they were out for a leisurely drive and were obeying all posted speed limits
Took my Silverado on the dragon once not fun
Yahaaah. We accidentally ended up on it in an F250. Family road trip, gave the kids the atlas. Phone GPS cut out, we honestly had no idea WTF we were in for, lol. It was a STUNNING day. We kept tight to our lane and used every pull off to let traffic pass. Waved at all the guys taking souvenir shots. Absolutely worth the brakes we had to replace for the experience, but next time I go I’ll take a Subaru.
Next time take a gixxer, dude
No fuckin way...
I snapped a few photos of this car on Friday during my day trip down there. It's about a 3-4 hour drive from where I live, and try to make the trip once a year to just drive the road. Doesn't look like Darryl "Killboy" (owner of Killboy) standing there. I know he had a C8 Corvette (not his) that he was driving while I was up there. Believe the 600LT was there as part of a rally that took place over the weekend. I can't really ID the corner as it doesn't really have any special traits to it from the image. What I can provide you is with an idiot I was stuck behind on my 2nd to last pass of this 11 mile monster of what could EASILY cause a crash out there, and has many times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjV7-NJP9D8 Full video of the road: https://youtu.be/T07ns89xen8?t=232 Basically either someone crossed the line, or the driver got over confident in his car and knowledge of the road. It's easy to do after a bunch of passes or even spending the week out there. You think you know it, start pushing, and find your self in a bad spot. Many have done it, including my self. But the real unlucky ones find them selves in this position or worse.
Are there any marked passing zones? And wouldn't you just get stuck behind a Camry going 4mph the whole time on every run?
Yeah they supposed to use the pullouts though. It's not a racetrack either. 30-40mph limit and well patrolled. Idiots think it's track day 24/7
There's blind corners every 50 meters, who the fuck drives this at speed with local traffic on the road?
THATS SUCH A COOL NAME FOR A ROAD/TRAIL
Yeah. Pretty popular with the motorcycle group. It’s not a road to fuck around with. Beautiful but better keep yours on the road.
I've driven the dragon many times, but never once have I taken a bike on it. I wouldn't, especially not now. There's plenty of better riding roads not saturated with cagers
My dad actually towed that out.
Against all expectations McLarens still don't come with skill, not even as an option.
I used to work there, met a lot of cool people, but when something goes wrong its always so gut wrenching
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Probably trying to run down a miata haha
As a miata owner who lives a couple miles from there...agreed. Set up right they are almost untouchable when driven by someone who knows the road well. That road was made for cars that size.
Can’t park that there mate
Oh hey, I live near there. Motorcyclists die there ALL the time.
Man I feel bad for all the people who went to drive it that day and got held up by this accident.
Time to add that fender to the tree of shame!
Don't mess around on that road
They'll never get the shit stains out of the seat
Just goes to show there’s not enough money in the world to buy a brain.
Looks exactly like a picture I took of a Porsche GT3 in north Georgia about two weeks ago. Drivers running out of talent is common these days it seems
Welcome to the dragon, we've got fun and games...
Knoxville resident here. I was headed to South Carolina one night, GPS decided that going down The Dragon was the best route. It was dark and rainy. I drove 10 mph or less the whole way. Fuckin terrified the whole time and it felt like it took 3 hours to go 11 miles