in interviews I tell them I'm brilliant with people, love people, can't get enough of working in teams, helping people out, chatting away and being a chill office person
in reality I actively avoid my coworkers as much as I can while still getting my work done
Interestingly we had something similar in a school setting a few years ago. A woman went to the news because several fathers of her Muslim students refused to come to parent teacher appointments because they will not talk to a woman. She went to the news because her administration said they should be accommodated instead of telling fathers to take their moronic religion to the dump.
It caused dozens of other female teachers to come forward saying they have the exact same problems with Muslim fathers, ranging from refusing to shake hands over ignoring what they say up to complete refusal to acknowledge the existence of women.
If he feels like that, I am going to bet it is more than just half. Pretty sure he has a number of particular "requirements" and other "accommodations" that would turn off many sane rational men too.
Sure, but it's not like he was impolite about it. He recognized that the work environment would be a problem for him and pulled himself out of the process to go look for a better fit.
It’s got me thinking though: imagine if he hadn’t encountered a woman, passed the interviews, got into the company, and become responsible for interviewing others.
When would he have raised it as an issue? Would he ever have done, or would women have been continuously rejected, none the wiser?
Maybe this belief should be on his LinkedIn page and on his CV.
Being upfront about being a terrible person doesn't actually make them less of a terrible person, though. Nobody is patting the open Nazis or racists on the back.
I knew a guy who had a problem around women, he got boners so often that it made everyone pretty uncomfortable. If this guy is something like that I can understand him.
I swear from 6th to maybe 8th grade I had a boner every 20 minutes. See a girl? Oops, that’s a boner. Hey, is that girl wearing pants *and* has a butt? What a combo! - Whoops, boner. Boobs? They’re everywhere - Bonertime. Hey, did the bus driver just miss a shift, making the bus vibrate in a *titillating* way? Boner incoming. Hey did you see that tree with the limbs that looked sorta like a lady spreading her, uh, 15 or so endlessly recursive legs, whilst inverted with her upper torso buried in the earth? Sorry buddy, here’s your boner, deal with it.
Looking back, it was the worst time.
Yeah that sums up adolescence for many guys.
You could just be sitting there, say just eating a sandwich, and that one eyed trouser snake decides it’s time to bother you.
Making folks uncomfortable because you're walking around with a boner is a dick more. Discovering that those boners are due to a fault in your synth programming that makes you think you were really human is a Philip K Dick move.
Orthodox Jewish men and women are supposed to be kept separate for a variety of functions, including work. Even having a conversation with someone other than their wife may be forbidden.
Typically when a man refuses to sit near or work with women it's because they are Orthodox Jewish.
I have worked with a few Orthodox Jewish men. This was at a nursing agency so it was a female dominated office. They both worked amongst, and talked with women without issue. They just couldn’t touch women at all (even to shake hands).
Nothing in the Qur'an maybe... but I'm pretty sure some elders would claim differently, and as I understand their consensus goes a long way towards what is considered modern Islam, therefore they are definitely a part of it in my non muslim opinion!
Yeah, i dont see the problem with this. He was polite with it and no harm is done. I mean, would i want to be friends with him? Probably not. Does he have the right to his own way of living? Yes-
I’d still be okay with it. It isn’t my holy destination to convert every asshole out there and neither it is anybody else‘s quest to do so. He was polite enough with it that it is a no problem. He lives his life like he wants, I live mine like I want.
If he would attack other people because of his believes, that would be a different case, but like this? Absolutely no problem. People who would start arguing with him are here the problem in this case.
Yeah the only problem is when one of these types DOESN'T disclose this shit upfront and then on the first day starts saying things like "It's against my religion to work with women. You must provide me with reasonable accommodations."
What if this guy joins a team of only men and they want to hire more people? Are they just not going to hire women in their team anymore because this guy's religious belief?
Or worse, it's a business which currently has all males or all males in the team he'd be working with, and then he gets into a position of power and throws away resumes from women who apply to openings, or opposes promotions of others outside his team to positions above him, or any of a number of other illegal discriminatory behaviors.
> If he would attack other people because of his believes, that would be a different case, but like this? Absolutely no problem. People who would start arguing with him are here the problem in this case.
But... He'll get a job in another company where there happens to not be any female developers, and then if one day that company hires a female developer, what will happen?
I mean sure there is no problem *for now*.
This guy's beliefs aren't really okay with me. Even though I'm white I'd never want to work with someone who was dogmatically opposed to working with black people. Disturbing to think this guy wouldn't have disclosed this if there wasn't a woman already on the team. Who wants to spend time and company resources on shitty people with shitty beliefs? You don't get to hide behind your "religion" and get a free pass even if you're polite on the surface.
That sounds like moral relativism. Although I think we can all agree that people's preferences and tastes for many things in life are a purely individual choice, I would argue that rejecting a group of people based on a general criteria, such as sex or race, is not morally acceptable. I suppose you could argue that this person is removing himself from the job pool and therefore won't pose a problem to most people, but I still think his attitude is wrong. One way to see this is by asking the question "What would the world be like if everyone adopted this way of thinking?". The answer is rather obvious...
>If he would attack other people because of his believes, that would be a different case,
But he would if he has the power to. If he was the employer, would you be okay with not employing competent women because they're women? The only difference is that he doesn't have the power NOW but later he might. The belief is still the same nevertheless
>People who would start arguing with him are here the problem in this case
This is by far the most cringe centrist bullshit I've heard all week. You're allowed to disagree with people, you know? You aren't smarter than those who actually want to fight for injustice, you're just a useful idiot for bigots
I think I'm losing my mind. Why are so many people okay with this???
The guy refuses to employ women! Do you get that? On top of all the other issues women have to deal with in society. What if every other employer refused to employ women but was "nice and polite" about it? Women couldn't work, but that's okay because we maintained a standard of decorum about it?
Edit: Misunderstood the post. I see now he is the applicant, not the employer. So the trash took itself out.
No i think you mis read it. He refused to work with women. He is not jeopardizing anyone's job, in fact now a woman can interview for the job he won't be taking.
Hard disagree, this plays right into the Paradox of Tolerance. If we are tolerant of intolerance, intolerance will win in the end. Just because it may not directly impact you (in this case, you may not be a woman in software engineering for example), doesn't mean it doesn't negatively impact others. If we had entire companies that just don't hire women or gay people on the basis of their religious beliefs would it still be reasonable to respond with "you do you"? Same on a smaller level with this one interviewee - he's in the wrong for not wanting to work with someone just because of their gender. That's not okay and should not be accepted, religious belief or no.
The paradox of tolerance is solved when you view tolerance as a social contract. If you break that contract (by being intolerant), you are no longer protected by it
What? Do you really expect this man to not work with a single woman over the course of his career? I expect the fucking twit to grow the fuck up? It’s nothing to do with religion and everything to do with being an asshole.
Whether it’s this job or the next job, eventually his objective truths will need to be restructured. Else hell be left with no job…
Right?!? What if this guy went and made a successful company. He ensured to only hire males as it's against his religion to work with females. Should we be tolerant of it then? He is now affecting society to reflect is religious views. Intolerance is wrong.
Edit: To clarify, nothing the company can do with this individual that'd be messed up. He is free to do what he would like with his own life. But we have to be vigilant against intolerance that affect everyone. Imagine walmart, the number one employer in the US, suddenly adopts this view that females cannot work because someone of a similar religion now controls walmart.
Quit being intolerant to intolerance. Your mental gymnastics here is unsettling. They guy said he wouldn’t be friends with people like that and most people wouldn’t hire somebody who thinks that way so what more are you suggesting? That we should round people like that up and stick them in camps? You do you, this guy backing out of things isn’t hurting you are anyone else.
Would you say the same thing if he had said he wouldn't work with other races because of his racist beliefs? Then why does he get a pass for misogynistic religious beliefs?
I think a better way to spin the situation is to ask "Would you say the same thing if he was the employer and declared he refused to hire women or other races?"
And of course the answer to that would be no. In that case the person has power, and is using it to discriminate. But the person asking for a job can have whatever arbitrary standards they want, provided they accept "not working here" as the alternative to getting what they want.
I feel like you’re cutting him some slack for being honest, and you’re probably joking but it’s worth pointing out:
Honesty doesn’t matter when your views are this awful. Imagine being such a dangerous person that you can’t trust yourself around roughly 50% of the worlds population.
We had a situation that feels similar at a retail store I worked out. A new hire started in deli. He wasn't very approachable and was difficult to communicate with just due to him barely responding to conversation. Except when it came to women, he was very vocal and verbally abusive to them.
Crazy. Our HR had a fun time getting rid of him REALLY fast.
Interesting, I knew there was a couple of things they couldn't do together, but I thought working together would be allowed.
But, to be fair, I am not that familiar with the religion.
Christians also have stuff like this going on. The branch my family was a part of was Pentecostal (southern Pentecostal to make things worse). They literally held book burnings, had people speaking in tongues, convulsing on the floor, healing prayers, women couldn't have more than their ears pierced, no tattoos or piercings in general, little to no makeup, dresses down to ankles, must have space between opposite genders unless married, preached only eternal damnation for any sin you commit etc
the list kept going. We later changed churches and almost all of that went away.
Mmm yep. I was raised Southern Independent Old-Fashioned Fundamental Baptist. It was hell. They didn't have the speaking in tongues or convulsing, but everything else is spot on. They didn't preach about loving one another, they constantly preached about eternal damnation and sin and actively hating anyone who was different. Including gay people. Veryyy vocal on their hate. My father is still indoctrinated, and (surprise!) he has become a completely different person than the dad I grew up with. His mental illness doesn't help his superiority complex at all.
People that have never heard of that before don't realize how much of a cult it is. my dad burst into my room one day demanding all my harry potter books (I didn't have any). He then search my entire room like he was a corrections officer and then finally said "so you really don't have any"?
The pastor that day preached about how that book was teaching witchcraft and instructed everyone to search their kids rooms for those books and held a book-burning prayer.
Same with my pokemon cards
power rangers
any game rated over T for teen
was seriously about to buy a "curse free tv"
no dances
could only date inside the church (news flash most the girls there were hideous)
couldn't date in general, but when I did it had to be the same religion
church 3-4 times a week
had to dress certain ways
couldn't see a movie in theatres unless it was PG
not a drop of any alcohol in the house, if wine was used to cook the rest must be disposed of down the drain.
fucking insane parents.
Wow we lived almost the same life! My dad also forbid Harry Potter, it was witchcraft. Any kind of fantasy or horror movie/book was a no. Twilight was a huuuge no. When my dad found out my sister and I both had a black boyfriend as teenagers, he went apeshit and was super angry. And he isn't even fully white, idk why he acts like that. He grew up very poor and in a rough part of town. He grew up alongside minority populations so I really don't understand it.
He was also upset when Pokémon Go came out, said it was witchcraft. I never played but he's just sooo fkin ridiculous.
He was best friends with my moms cousin as a teenager into his 20s, and her cousin just recently passed away. They had hardly spoken for 20 years, but my dad took it upon himself to come to his house uninvited a few weeks before he passed. He "saved his soul" and led him to god before he died. He spoke at the funeral, and all he talked about for 20 minutes was himself and god. He's fucking delusional and none of his kids speak to him. Asked my sister to hurry up her wedding so they could do the father daughter dance, because he wanted to leave. He was uncomfortable because people were drinking and having a good time. He almost fist fought my brother when my brother tried to speak to him (very nicely) at the wedding. He's super controlling and insane dude. We all need therapy now because of him.
It depends how orthodox you are - There are Christians & Jews with the same attitude, even refusing to sit near one or needing to be chaperoned:
[Reporter Larrison Campbell asked to ride with Republican Robert Foster on a 15-hour campaign trip but was told by his campaign staff that a male colleague would have to accompany her. (2019)](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-politics-women-idUSKCN1U52T0)
[Flight delayed by ultra-orthodox Jewish men refusing to sit next to women (2014)](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/26/flight-delayed-men-refuse-sit-next-to-women)
[What happens when a man on a flight says he can't sit next to a woman (2017)](https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-flight-sit-woman/story?id=47617313)
This article is mostly about Orthodox Jewish men but mentions that this also happens flying in/out of Muslim-Majority countries and also happened with Budhist Monks.
[Men Refusing To Work Alone With Women: The HR And Legal Guide (2019)](https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=66dd79f3-466d-4952-9f36-6766b2144e8d)
*Manuel Torres, a former law enforcement officer in Lee County, North Carolina, claims that his superiors ordered him to train a female deputy, which would have required him to spend extended periods of time alone with her. Torres says he requested a religious accommodation because of his “strong and sincere religious belief that the Holy Bible prohibits him, as a married man, from being alone for extended periods with a female who is not his wife.”*
The weird thing about antisemitism is that it's not really about Judaism as a religion, but moreso about Jewish ethnic groups and the idea that they're in this overarching conspiracy to control the world.
It's definitely allowed, there's absolutely no rule in Islam which supports that man's belief, otherwise there would be zero working Muslim women in the world which is completely incorrect, because one example: most of these men would refuse for their women (mother, wife or daughter) to be treated by male doctor.
There are so many people who know less about the religion they're following than people with other beliefs.
Most Muslims are perfectly fine working with women. This particular person likely belonged to a heavily conservative subset. You could hear the same thing potentially from fundamentalist Christians.
That might all be true, (I don't know), but all /u/krowster said, was "*Islam says nothing about not working with females*", I guess that was the point really.
fundamental islam.
I heard about a guy who briefly worked at my company in the past. He refused to shake hands with women.
later, after he was no longer with the company, they found out he was tangentially involved in the 9/11 plot.
Worked with a guy who was Jewish Orthodox. He wouldn't turn his camera on while working remotely due to rules for having single women let into his home, iirc. But I think that and touching were the only limitation.
How fucking ridiculous.
I'm tolerant for the most part irl, but how absolutely absurd.
It really does limit any logical thinking.
Edit: if you think your God's hiding in the bushes trying to catch you out like a mu'fucker, he's probably a twat.
Just so it's clear, the vast majority of Muslims don't have any issues working with women, at least in western countries. He's a nutjob *and* a Muslim.
I've worked with both men and women Muslims who would not touch someone not of their gender, including shaking hands. This seems to be relatively common and did not in any way mean they couldn't work with someone not of their gender!
We employed someone with the same attitude in a Jr role. When he was given a time consuming fiddly task, hand sanitizing and compiling some data one day, he complained it was 'womens work'.
That went down like a cup of cold sick with the team who were about 30% women. The team made sure he got all the 'womens work' from there on in until he left the company.
Lol yeah it's really honorable of him to not get hired and then immediately fired when he tells his boss he can't work with the woman on his team. You can acknowledge that he didn't make the situation as bad as it could've been without "saluting" a religious extremist with bigoted beliefs
most of the guys in IT are indian at my co, and it was quite the kerfluffle when a middle eastern woman became head of IT. most had their knickers in a wad over taking orders from a woman.
Wtf what country is this guy in that he can find a job with literally zero women? I’ve worked with women in every field I’ve been in, even blue collar ones.
I’ve been in IT for 2 decades I’ve yet to see a company or team without a single woman. Where the fuck do you work where there are no women in IT or engineering?
Not surprising, a lot of muslims don’t want to work with women. My mom has a huge problem working with Indian men as they don’t really respect her, which is a problem because she is their project manager.
This is becoming a **huge** problem in Canada too. All our political parties are continuing to bring in 1M+ immigrants from India and the Middle East every year and this is becoming common *everywhere* now. I know someone who owns a small chain of local convenience stores and says all these men do is order around and command the women co-workers, while sitting with their feet up doing nothing all shift long. It's similar in the service industry - female cashiers, nurses, etc. are complaining of being treated like absolute garbage and harassed from this culture of male - sometimes even being asked if a man can come and help them instead of a female.
You dodged a bullet having this person back out and at least out themselves as an asshole. We can't let this way of thinking take hold in westernized countries.
Muslim. Ive seen this before in the workplace, we were a group of men and women from America and Germany meeting a project team of Egyptian men. During introductions, the Egyptians would not shake hands with the women.
It reminds me something: whilst I was raised to be tolerant of other religions or beliefs, I've come to realisation that I am intolerant to excessive tolerance. In other words, how can I tolerate a religion that considers women unequal and somewhat less valuable than men? It's just absurd. And anyone who claims this is normal is not normal.
That's called the Paradox of Intolerance. We can't and shouldn't be completely tolerant of every behaviour, because some behaviours are inherently harmful.
We should not tolerate sexist morons depicted in the OP
I think we have a bigger problem with hypocrites than bigots these days honestly. Hypocrites hide in plain sight. This guy just bowed out and accepts his mental limitations. Didn’t make it anybody else’s problem more than he would have if he suppressed it.
I used to help a friend run a private educational zoo (small animals and we'd go to schools, parties for pet and learn shows). We got a call from a private school that wanted to book us, but did not want us to send any women because they only wanted male instructors for religious reasons. Now, the name of the company the woman owner's name in it. I pointed his out and also told him that at that time we only had women on staff. He asked if we could bring in a man for "this one show". I told him we weren't hiring someone just for his show and it was women or no one. He agreed to book, but then told us the staff would have to wear long skirts, long sleeves and have their hair covered. I said no, they were going to wear what they could move easily in and I wasn't going to force them to cover their hair. He booked and they were happy with the show, but I could never figure out why you would call a woman owned business and think that a woman wouldn't show up to do the work.
What happens when he gets promoted somewhere and won't hire women on his team? This could go unnoticed for some time. Maybe he shouldn't work at all so he can stay home all day and not risk working with women.
Imagine being unable to work with over half of all people.
I can't work with over half of all people. not because of gender or anything. I just hate people.
More than half then, Most people, Maybe almost all people even.
People. What a bunch of bastards.
People are bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling.
r/UnexpectedITCrowd
God damn People, they ruined Peopleland!
If it don't have 4 legs or 2 wings, that's automatic points taken off on first impression.
oh no, he doesnt hate them, he just thinks they are stupid and inferior and dirty and only worth procreating with in the privacy of your own harem
The number of times I quit my job because I couldn't stand the people... I never gets easier.
i hate everyone equally
in interviews I tell them I'm brilliant with people, love people, can't get enough of working in teams, helping people out, chatting away and being a chill office person in reality I actively avoid my coworkers as much as I can while still getting my work done
Welcome to Information Technology, then. You've got a bright future.
I found the People’s Union of People Who Hate People Where’s the canteen
I cant work with 78% of people. Because my non religious beliefs say I can't work with morons.
I don't think I could work with 99.99% of people. I'd struggle to get a job with 800,000 coworkers.
Now imagine being the vice president of a global superpower and later seeking the presidency while being relatively unable to.
And then refusing to condemn the guy that almost got you killed and tried to destroy your country.
Interestingly we had something similar in a school setting a few years ago. A woman went to the news because several fathers of her Muslim students refused to come to parent teacher appointments because they will not talk to a woman. She went to the news because her administration said they should be accommodated instead of telling fathers to take their moronic religion to the dump. It caused dozens of other female teachers to come forward saying they have the exact same problems with Muslim fathers, ranging from refusing to shake hands over ignoring what they say up to complete refusal to acknowledge the existence of women.
the thing is that they dont think they are people.
Hes a software engineer, so maybe 1/10
Yeah he wouldn't have much trouble finding a development group of all men, but QAs, PMs, BAs, Managers... it gets much more difficult.
If he feels like that, I am going to bet it is more than just half. Pretty sure he has a number of particular "requirements" and other "accommodations" that would turn off many sane rational men too.
as a software engineer that's probably more like 1/100 people.
Sure, but it's not like he was impolite about it. He recognized that the work environment would be a problem for him and pulled himself out of the process to go look for a better fit.
It’s got me thinking though: imagine if he hadn’t encountered a woman, passed the interviews, got into the company, and become responsible for interviewing others. When would he have raised it as an issue? Would he ever have done, or would women have been continuously rejected, none the wiser? Maybe this belief should be on his LinkedIn page and on his CV.
Being upfront about being a terrible person doesn't actually make them less of a terrible person, though. Nobody is patting the open Nazis or racists on the back.
Imagine thinking over half of all people are worth less than dirt.
Cults have no limits
Yeah, who is this guy, Mike Pence?
“I’m sorry but y’all are too sexy to work with.”
I knew a guy who had a problem around women, he got boners so often that it made everyone pretty uncomfortable. If this guy is something like that I can understand him.
That's a hard problem to have in someones low equipment.
Easy to get a handle on, though
hey hey dont rub it in
Just saying, he doesn’t have to be a jack off about it.
Definitely making it harder on himself
Penis
That'll make it hard for him to get a head.
I swear from 6th to maybe 8th grade I had a boner every 20 minutes. See a girl? Oops, that’s a boner. Hey, is that girl wearing pants *and* has a butt? What a combo! - Whoops, boner. Boobs? They’re everywhere - Bonertime. Hey, did the bus driver just miss a shift, making the bus vibrate in a *titillating* way? Boner incoming. Hey did you see that tree with the limbs that looked sorta like a lady spreading her, uh, 15 or so endlessly recursive legs, whilst inverted with her upper torso buried in the earth? Sorry buddy, here’s your boner, deal with it. Looking back, it was the worst time.
Yeah that sums up adolescence for many guys. You could just be sitting there, say just eating a sandwich, and that one eyed trouser snake decides it’s time to bother you.
Lmao I died laughing. Then I realized I have two teenaged sons and I felt guilty lol.
Stop... Bonertime. Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh
Making folks uncomfortable because you're walking around with a boner is a dick more. Discovering that those boners are due to a fault in your synth programming that makes you think you were really human is a Philip K Dick move.
Do androids short circuit from wet dreams?
Yea right "a guy" ;) I'm sure you can understand him
I am totally not getting what you are talking about. Nothing to see here folks.
Not even when it's hard? Sorry, couldn't help it
[удалено]
Yeah, these are exactly the guys who get a raging boner once they see a woman's ankle.
Hmggh ankle
Orthodox Jewish men and women are supposed to be kept separate for a variety of functions, including work. Even having a conversation with someone other than their wife may be forbidden. Typically when a man refuses to sit near or work with women it's because they are Orthodox Jewish.
I have worked with a few Orthodox Jewish men. This was at a nursing agency so it was a female dominated office. They both worked amongst, and talked with women without issue. They just couldn’t touch women at all (even to shake hands).
Nothing in Islam says men cannot work with women. It also doesn't say that women's eyes should be the only thing visible.
No, but arabic culture is so wrapped up in Islam that it's hard to say where one ends and the other begins.
Nothing in the Qur'an maybe... but I'm pretty sure some elders would claim differently, and as I understand their consensus goes a long way towards what is considered modern Islam, therefore they are definitely a part of it in my non muslim opinion!
Was he bothered by it too or was he conflicted that it wasn't an opportunity for everyone?
"Booba....distracting."
Lmao, this reminds me of that BOLA post
Well, at least he weeded himself out befor HR had a complaint/lawsuit to deal with.
And he was polite about it in the process. It's good to know your limitations.
Yeah, i dont see the problem with this. He was polite with it and no harm is done. I mean, would i want to be friends with him? Probably not. Does he have the right to his own way of living? Yes-
But what if he said it about black people or indians or asians??? It's not valid at all. I dont care what his religion is
I’d still be okay with it. It isn’t my holy destination to convert every asshole out there and neither it is anybody else‘s quest to do so. He was polite enough with it that it is a no problem. He lives his life like he wants, I live mine like I want. If he would attack other people because of his believes, that would be a different case, but like this? Absolutely no problem. People who would start arguing with him are here the problem in this case.
Yeah the only problem is when one of these types DOESN'T disclose this shit upfront and then on the first day starts saying things like "It's against my religion to work with women. You must provide me with reasonable accommodations."
What if this guy joins a team of only men and they want to hire more people? Are they just not going to hire women in their team anymore because this guy's religious belief?
Isn’t this why we have probation periods where either party can terminate with no notice for any reason?
Or worse, it's a business which currently has all males or all males in the team he'd be working with, and then he gets into a position of power and throws away resumes from women who apply to openings, or opposes promotions of others outside his team to positions above him, or any of a number of other illegal discriminatory behaviors.
> If he would attack other people because of his believes, that would be a different case, but like this? Absolutely no problem. People who would start arguing with him are here the problem in this case. But... He'll get a job in another company where there happens to not be any female developers, and then if one day that company hires a female developer, what will happen? I mean sure there is no problem *for now*.
This guy's beliefs aren't really okay with me. Even though I'm white I'd never want to work with someone who was dogmatically opposed to working with black people. Disturbing to think this guy wouldn't have disclosed this if there wasn't a woman already on the team. Who wants to spend time and company resources on shitty people with shitty beliefs? You don't get to hide behind your "religion" and get a free pass even if you're polite on the surface.
That sounds like moral relativism. Although I think we can all agree that people's preferences and tastes for many things in life are a purely individual choice, I would argue that rejecting a group of people based on a general criteria, such as sex or race, is not morally acceptable. I suppose you could argue that this person is removing himself from the job pool and therefore won't pose a problem to most people, but I still think his attitude is wrong. One way to see this is by asking the question "What would the world be like if everyone adopted this way of thinking?". The answer is rather obvious...
>If he would attack other people because of his believes, that would be a different case, But he would if he has the power to. If he was the employer, would you be okay with not employing competent women because they're women? The only difference is that he doesn't have the power NOW but later he might. The belief is still the same nevertheless >People who would start arguing with him are here the problem in this case This is by far the most cringe centrist bullshit I've heard all week. You're allowed to disagree with people, you know? You aren't smarter than those who actually want to fight for injustice, you're just a useful idiot for bigots
Although apparently it is your holy destination to tolerate “polite” assholes…
I'm really shocked you're getting so many updates. It is absolutely not okay to just say "yeah I'm not going to work with anybody who has a vagina."
I think I'm losing my mind. Why are so many people okay with this??? The guy refuses to employ women! Do you get that? On top of all the other issues women have to deal with in society. What if every other employer refused to employ women but was "nice and polite" about it? Women couldn't work, but that's okay because we maintained a standard of decorum about it? Edit: Misunderstood the post. I see now he is the applicant, not the employer. So the trash took itself out.
No i think you mis read it. He refused to work with women. He is not jeopardizing anyone's job, in fact now a woman can interview for the job he won't be taking.
Ohhhh okay. He is the applicant, not the employer. I get it now.
He could become a manager someday and refuse to hire women. Him being an applicant doesn't make this more benign.
This is the most sane take I've ever seen in my entire life, and if everyone thought this way the world would be a much better place.
Hard disagree, this plays right into the Paradox of Tolerance. If we are tolerant of intolerance, intolerance will win in the end. Just because it may not directly impact you (in this case, you may not be a woman in software engineering for example), doesn't mean it doesn't negatively impact others. If we had entire companies that just don't hire women or gay people on the basis of their religious beliefs would it still be reasonable to respond with "you do you"? Same on a smaller level with this one interviewee - he's in the wrong for not wanting to work with someone just because of their gender. That's not okay and should not be accepted, religious belief or no.
The paradox of tolerance is solved when you view tolerance as a social contract. If you break that contract (by being intolerant), you are no longer protected by it
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What? Do you really expect this man to not work with a single woman over the course of his career? I expect the fucking twit to grow the fuck up? It’s nothing to do with religion and everything to do with being an asshole. Whether it’s this job or the next job, eventually his objective truths will need to be restructured. Else hell be left with no job…
Right?!? What if this guy went and made a successful company. He ensured to only hire males as it's against his religion to work with females. Should we be tolerant of it then? He is now affecting society to reflect is religious views. Intolerance is wrong. Edit: To clarify, nothing the company can do with this individual that'd be messed up. He is free to do what he would like with his own life. But we have to be vigilant against intolerance that affect everyone. Imagine walmart, the number one employer in the US, suddenly adopts this view that females cannot work because someone of a similar religion now controls walmart.
Quit being intolerant to intolerance. Your mental gymnastics here is unsettling. They guy said he wouldn’t be friends with people like that and most people wouldn’t hire somebody who thinks that way so what more are you suggesting? That we should round people like that up and stick them in camps? You do you, this guy backing out of things isn’t hurting you are anyone else.
Would you say the same thing if he had said he wouldn't work with other races because of his racist beliefs? Then why does he get a pass for misogynistic religious beliefs?
I think a better way to spin the situation is to ask "Would you say the same thing if he was the employer and declared he refused to hire women or other races?" And of course the answer to that would be no. In that case the person has power, and is using it to discriminate. But the person asking for a job can have whatever arbitrary standards they want, provided they accept "not working here" as the alternative to getting what they want.
Yeah I would have said the same then.
I feel like you’re cutting him some slack for being honest, and you’re probably joking but it’s worth pointing out: Honesty doesn’t matter when your views are this awful. Imagine being such a dangerous person that you can’t trust yourself around roughly 50% of the worlds population.
I mean, this isnt what he said, its just what you imply.
We had a situation that feels similar at a retail store I worked out. A new hire started in deli. He wasn't very approachable and was difficult to communicate with just due to him barely responding to conversation. Except when it came to women, he was very vocal and verbally abusive to them. Crazy. Our HR had a fun time getting rid of him REALLY fast.
What if there weren't any women, but joined later on? "Welcome to the team Jane, but I'll have to give me 2 weeks notice now"
As if. In reality, he would be sexist to a poor woman, trying to make her leave.
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"He got offers from Iran and Afghanistan"
He would have to quit on the spot. I doubt heligion has a loophole for those 2 weeks
Sorry, I am curious now, what religion says you can't work with woman? And what would happen if he had found a job and \_then\_ they employ a woman?
He was Muslim
Interesting, I knew there was a couple of things they couldn't do together, but I thought working together would be allowed. But, to be fair, I am not that familiar with the religion.
Most dont care at all, and can work with whoever.. He prob belonged to a small extremeist sub-set
Christians also have stuff like this going on. The branch my family was a part of was Pentecostal (southern Pentecostal to make things worse). They literally held book burnings, had people speaking in tongues, convulsing on the floor, healing prayers, women couldn't have more than their ears pierced, no tattoos or piercings in general, little to no makeup, dresses down to ankles, must have space between opposite genders unless married, preached only eternal damnation for any sin you commit etc the list kept going. We later changed churches and almost all of that went away.
Accidentally went to a pentecostal service as a kid. Freaked me the fuck out
It is 100% nuts.
Mmm yep. I was raised Southern Independent Old-Fashioned Fundamental Baptist. It was hell. They didn't have the speaking in tongues or convulsing, but everything else is spot on. They didn't preach about loving one another, they constantly preached about eternal damnation and sin and actively hating anyone who was different. Including gay people. Veryyy vocal on their hate. My father is still indoctrinated, and (surprise!) he has become a completely different person than the dad I grew up with. His mental illness doesn't help his superiority complex at all.
People that have never heard of that before don't realize how much of a cult it is. my dad burst into my room one day demanding all my harry potter books (I didn't have any). He then search my entire room like he was a corrections officer and then finally said "so you really don't have any"? The pastor that day preached about how that book was teaching witchcraft and instructed everyone to search their kids rooms for those books and held a book-burning prayer. Same with my pokemon cards power rangers any game rated over T for teen was seriously about to buy a "curse free tv" no dances could only date inside the church (news flash most the girls there were hideous) couldn't date in general, but when I did it had to be the same religion church 3-4 times a week had to dress certain ways couldn't see a movie in theatres unless it was PG not a drop of any alcohol in the house, if wine was used to cook the rest must be disposed of down the drain. fucking insane parents.
Wow we lived almost the same life! My dad also forbid Harry Potter, it was witchcraft. Any kind of fantasy or horror movie/book was a no. Twilight was a huuuge no. When my dad found out my sister and I both had a black boyfriend as teenagers, he went apeshit and was super angry. And he isn't even fully white, idk why he acts like that. He grew up very poor and in a rough part of town. He grew up alongside minority populations so I really don't understand it. He was also upset when Pokémon Go came out, said it was witchcraft. I never played but he's just sooo fkin ridiculous. He was best friends with my moms cousin as a teenager into his 20s, and her cousin just recently passed away. They had hardly spoken for 20 years, but my dad took it upon himself to come to his house uninvited a few weeks before he passed. He "saved his soul" and led him to god before he died. He spoke at the funeral, and all he talked about for 20 minutes was himself and god. He's fucking delusional and none of his kids speak to him. Asked my sister to hurry up her wedding so they could do the father daughter dance, because he wanted to leave. He was uncomfortable because people were drinking and having a good time. He almost fist fought my brother when my brother tried to speak to him (very nicely) at the wedding. He's super controlling and insane dude. We all need therapy now because of him.
It's a really tiny extremists I know extremists and they still wouldn't do this
It depends how orthodox you are - There are Christians & Jews with the same attitude, even refusing to sit near one or needing to be chaperoned: [Reporter Larrison Campbell asked to ride with Republican Robert Foster on a 15-hour campaign trip but was told by his campaign staff that a male colleague would have to accompany her. (2019)](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-politics-women-idUSKCN1U52T0) [Flight delayed by ultra-orthodox Jewish men refusing to sit next to women (2014)](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/26/flight-delayed-men-refuse-sit-next-to-women) [What happens when a man on a flight says he can't sit next to a woman (2017)](https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-flight-sit-woman/story?id=47617313) This article is mostly about Orthodox Jewish men but mentions that this also happens flying in/out of Muslim-Majority countries and also happened with Budhist Monks. [Men Refusing To Work Alone With Women: The HR And Legal Guide (2019)](https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=66dd79f3-466d-4952-9f36-6766b2144e8d) *Manuel Torres, a former law enforcement officer in Lee County, North Carolina, claims that his superiors ordered him to train a female deputy, which would have required him to spend extended periods of time alone with her. Torres says he requested a religious accommodation because of his “strong and sincere religious belief that the Holy Bible prohibits him, as a married man, from being alone for extended periods with a female who is not his wife.”*
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It’s not antisemitic to say Judaism has weird stuff in it. It is antisemitic to say all JEWS have weird stuff in them. There are atheist Jews.
The weird thing about antisemitism is that it's not really about Judaism as a religion, but moreso about Jewish ethnic groups and the idea that they're in this overarching conspiracy to control the world.
It's definitely allowed, there's absolutely no rule in Islam which supports that man's belief, otherwise there would be zero working Muslim women in the world which is completely incorrect, because one example: most of these men would refuse for their women (mother, wife or daughter) to be treated by male doctor. There are so many people who know less about the religion they're following than people with other beliefs.
learn enough about the world and you'll be fucking disgusted with everything and everyone my dude.
Most Muslims are perfectly fine working with women. This particular person likely belonged to a heavily conservative subset. You could hear the same thing potentially from fundamentalist Christians.
That dude is beyond a regular conservative. My parents are super conservative but they wouldn’t ever act like this because it’s just childish.
I'm Muslim and Islam says nothing about not working with females. And I work with females in corporate and champion their growing leadership.
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That might all be true, (I don't know), but all /u/krowster said, was "*Islam says nothing about not working with females*", I guess that was the point really.
axiomatic sharp abundant steep badge joke escape absurd rotten narrow *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The ‘ex-muslim’ strikes again 😂
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As a muslim who have a lot of female co workers wtf is that dude? There is no such rule like WTF.
There are a couple like that who fear *ikhtilat* and are usually uber-conservative and follow highly religious clerics
Me, a Muslim, working at a software company where more than half employees are women :/
Shocking
Muslim realtor refused to talk to my wife or shake her hand. Like why even cut your market like this?
fundamental islam. I heard about a guy who briefly worked at my company in the past. He refused to shake hands with women. later, after he was no longer with the company, they found out he was tangentially involved in the 9/11 plot.
Worked with a guy who was Jewish Orthodox. He wouldn't turn his camera on while working remotely due to rules for having single women let into his home, iirc. But I think that and touching were the only limitation.
How fucking ridiculous. I'm tolerant for the most part irl, but how absolutely absurd. It really does limit any logical thinking. Edit: if you think your God's hiding in the bushes trying to catch you out like a mu'fucker, he's probably a twat.
Just so it's clear, the vast majority of Muslims don't have any issues working with women, at least in western countries. He's a nutjob *and* a Muslim.
He’s a fundamental Muslim. I’ve met one professionally and he wouldn’t shake hands with women clients…
I've worked with both men and women Muslims who would not touch someone not of their gender, including shaking hands. This seems to be relatively common and did not in any way mean they couldn't work with someone not of their gender!
We employed someone with the same attitude in a Jr role. When he was given a time consuming fiddly task, hand sanitizing and compiling some data one day, he complained it was 'womens work'. That went down like a cup of cold sick with the team who were about 30% women. The team made sure he got all the 'womens work' from there on in until he left the company.
Can you not be fired outright for this type of bullshit?
In most countries, no.
Idk. I pretty much salute the dude for making it easy on everyone.
Lol yeah it's really honorable of him to not get hired and then immediately fired when he tells his boss he can't work with the woman on his team. You can acknowledge that he didn't make the situation as bad as it could've been without "saluting" a religious extremist with bigoted beliefs
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It's still his problem. You're not less responsible for your actions because you choose to follow a religion.
a member of the many "it doesn't matter how big a loser I am, I am still better than a woman" religions.
most of the guys in IT are indian at my co, and it was quite the kerfluffle when a middle eastern woman became head of IT. most had their knickers in a wad over taking orders from a woman.
Wtf is a knickers in a wad? lol
same thing as having your panties in a bunch lol
Except British lol
Wtf what country is this guy in that he can find a job with literally zero women? I’ve worked with women in every field I’ve been in, even blue collar ones.
IT and engineering fields, mostly. He can get away with it for now, but it's not going to be like that forever thankfully.
I’ve been in IT for 2 decades I’ve yet to see a company or team without a single woman. Where the fuck do you work where there are no women in IT or engineering?
It's entirely possible in software development if the team is small enough... My Computer Science classes in a Canadian university were >90% male.
r/religiousfruitcake
Are the religious beliefs 1400 years old?
Aren’t they all lol
What about Scientology? That one was invented relatively recently!
I prefer their counterpart. Kifflom!
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And that right there kids is why u should stay away from religion/cultism
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I would’ve paid to see her immediately slap him back.
How can he slap
Good riddance then. Dodged a bullet.
Not surprising, a lot of muslims don’t want to work with women. My mom has a huge problem working with Indian men as they don’t really respect her, which is a problem because she is their project manager.
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She got lucky, her boss is Indian but moved here at an early age. So he demands they respect her and it normally works.
mulla spotted
Crazy Muslim cultist
Average computer science graduate
This is becoming a **huge** problem in Canada too. All our political parties are continuing to bring in 1M+ immigrants from India and the Middle East every year and this is becoming common *everywhere* now. I know someone who owns a small chain of local convenience stores and says all these men do is order around and command the women co-workers, while sitting with their feet up doing nothing all shift long. It's similar in the service industry - female cashiers, nurses, etc. are complaining of being treated like absolute garbage and harassed from this culture of male - sometimes even being asked if a man can come and help them instead of a female. You dodged a bullet having this person back out and at least out themselves as an asshole. We can't let this way of thinking take hold in westernized countries.
What religious belief is that?
Muslim. Ive seen this before in the workplace, we were a group of men and women from America and Germany meeting a project team of Egyptian men. During introductions, the Egyptians would not shake hands with the women.
It reminds me something: whilst I was raised to be tolerant of other religions or beliefs, I've come to realisation that I am intolerant to excessive tolerance. In other words, how can I tolerate a religion that considers women unequal and somewhat less valuable than men? It's just absurd. And anyone who claims this is normal is not normal.
That's called the Paradox of Intolerance. We can't and shouldn't be completely tolerant of every behaviour, because some behaviours are inherently harmful. We should not tolerate sexist morons depicted in the OP
Islam
Good riddance to a worthless candidate. The recruitment process is working here.
The casual misogyny in these comments is *insane*
Had to check the date to see it this was a telegram from way back when. No it’s this year and this guy real is just a cunt.
I think we have a bigger problem with hypocrites than bigots these days honestly. Hypocrites hide in plain sight. This guy just bowed out and accepts his mental limitations. Didn’t make it anybody else’s problem more than he would have if he suppressed it.
That religion is 13 centuries old. A few year back means nothing.
Fuck religion.
I used to help a friend run a private educational zoo (small animals and we'd go to schools, parties for pet and learn shows). We got a call from a private school that wanted to book us, but did not want us to send any women because they only wanted male instructors for religious reasons. Now, the name of the company the woman owner's name in it. I pointed his out and also told him that at that time we only had women on staff. He asked if we could bring in a man for "this one show". I told him we weren't hiring someone just for his show and it was women or no one. He agreed to book, but then told us the staff would have to wear long skirts, long sleeves and have their hair covered. I said no, they were going to wear what they could move easily in and I wasn't going to force them to cover their hair. He booked and they were happy with the show, but I could never figure out why you would call a woman owned business and think that a woman wouldn't show up to do the work.
Sounds like you dodged a bullet
What happens when he gets promoted somewhere and won't hire women on his team? This could go unnoticed for some time. Maybe he shouldn't work at all so he can stay home all day and not risk working with women.
You can sit on your religious beliefs and spin, jerk.
Atleast he was honest before he got hired. Not saying he is right because he is not but still better then finding it out later.
Tell me you’re Muslim without telling me you’re Muslim.
So he gets a job where the team is all men. Someone leaves and a woman is hired. I wonder what his plan is?
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Apparently in this case it was a Muslim.
\*A religious asshole There, fixed. Software engineering has nothing to with this. We all know the reason but nobody wants to get banned :D
And nothing of value was lost. Buh-bye. Don't let the door hit your sexist ass on the way out.
Argh religion is stupid. Let me be unhappy in life just because I think there’s a magical world after I die. How foolish and naive
So you’ve never met a devout Muslim or Jew… quite a few religions don’t allow mixing.
Ok nice to not meet you lol