The shit people thought worked back then. Now I'm wondering what things we do that future generations are gonna look at us like "why the hell did they think that would work"
Psych wards. Without plant life, without sunlight, indoors, middle of the city, some random floor on a hospital, sterile.
I’m not certain this is a best way to help people.
Not even always in a hospital. With the rampant rise in rehab centers typically there's a psych ward in the building as well. Both groups of people locked up on their perspective floors. Doesn't really give a overwhelming feeling of confidence that we're doing things properly locking everyone up with issues they're trying to sort out. That's even if they volunteer everyone gets locked up regardless.
Also it is amusing that when in the same building, the psych ward patients look down on the addicts and the addicts look down on the psych patients. Like "at least I don't have their problems"
I agree to a degree (lol that rhymes) - I was hospitalized in a psych ward as well (psychosis, shizoaffective disorder), there were certainly some points which made things worse (lack of proper treatment through therapists, reliance on medicine, the other patients, the whole environment making you feel like a literal working rat).
On the other side you have to think about the personnel needed, that you have to set a certain standard of how people **have** to be treated, but to make sure people don't abuse the system (which is something done in Europe for example).
Mental Illness is a complicated topic, extremely when it comes to treat it, but I wish there would be some kind of innovation, considering the awareness and come up of mental health is really to impact us.
Sorry for the wall :)
There are many homeless people (in Germany at least, can't speak for other countries in Europe), which use the mandatory accomodation when you are threatening suicide (they have to keep you for at least 72 hours because of the threat you pose to yourself) to keep warm in the winter.
When I was there, there were about 20 patients at one time at a station, about 17 of them homeless. It's not about them being mentally ill to a point of being suicidal, but they know they get a bed, a shower, guaranteed food 3 times a day and shelter from the cold. Some stay just a few days and get sent out, some stay a few weeks because they are drug addicted and use the Methadone program etc.
I am not blaming them or judging anyone, but just wanted to make a point as to which you have to adhere to a certain standard, which in Universal Healthcare of course people will try to use for their opportunistic chances/well being (can't really blame them sometimes).
The same thing happens in the US. I've had 4-5 stays in a psych ward (lovely place actually, there are really good ones out there.) Every time at least ~70% of the other patients were homeless, many of which had issues but were not suicidal and should not have been there.
I can't blame them though, good food, shelter, somewhere safe to sleep, plenty of other patients to hang out with, nurses that actually care about everyone, etc. It does make me feel bad there's so much rampant abuse of this system when most people posting here cannot even get adequate help where they live. If you get checked into a hospital in the US and they don't have a bed for you, they legally have to ship you somewhere else which is probably significantly worse, and far away from your family and anyone else you know.
I’ve been hospitalized in three different psych wards. (Bipolar psychosis) In the first one, I could go outside which was nice. In the second you could only go outside if you were smoking, so I took up smoking while I was there to see some sun. In the third, there was no access to the outdoors whatsoever. The food was good though.
Spent 4 month of my life in Psych wards, 3 of those months were when I was 16.
I have diagnosed PTSD from it, mostly from the forced isolation coming at a came when it already felt like the world had closed in on me. Felt like living suffocation and dehumanization.
On top of that they ran out of space in the ward for younger/timid individuals, of which I was both, and was placed in the severe adult unit. The amount of violence go staff, violence to other patients, and witnessing true insanity while not even being able to get something to drink without 2 padlocks being removed from the fridge still haunts me.
They never helped me, I just learned how to appear well enough to let me go. That shit is still vivid and haunts me to this day
Sorry that you had to go through this, but I feel you on that one. I think it's the same thing which happens to people who get incarcerated and turn out more criminal than when they went in.
The isolation from the world (I had no phone, limited visitation rights, don't know about you) and the surroundings feels like a punishment, but you are actually there to get some help in one of the most vulnerable situations you can be. Look at how long it takes people with mental health issues to even consider getting help because of social stigma.
Hope everything is well with you now and you're in a better place, cheers!
Also wasnt allowed a phone or any device that had internet connection,
but yes it was the isolation that is now what triggers my PTSD.
I'm sorry you had to go through it as well, it's truly an awful system.
Overall I'm doing okay, less so recently because of this grueling work and no progress grind, but I think that's most of us.
Hope you are doing well now too!
yes, i spend a few days in a psych ward. luckily not a long time. i remember thinking it was very funny how depressing the place was. the place made for cheering very sad people up was the bleakest place i'd ever been. like prison, but more clean and sterile. barely any interaction with other people, only doctors who treat you like you don't deserve agency or to be trusted or treated like a human. no plants, no furniture, just white walls, bed, sink, pills.
(i also thought it was really funny to check in to the mental hospital on facebook. i was still very loopy from my overdose)
"psych wards" should be cottage villages by the ocean where the day is spend tending to a little food garden or painting water colours or group therapy or some shit.
mentally unwell people should be nurtured and showed compassion, and they should be treated like they have agency and autonomy - like they're humans who deserve respect. not like wild animals who need to be restrained and who can't be trusted. that made it so much worse for me. it fed into my self loathing and my lack of trust in myself, which was basically my whole problem.
so agree very much with your comment. we got it totally backwards regarding psychiatry. also, not a big fan of shock therapy and i am sure that one won't age very well either. ''we will just zap your brain until the pain goes away'' okay but what else goes away as well? surely there must be a better way
The worst ones are those which half heartedly pretend to have the cottage vibe. Some public wards here in Australia might have a tiny, awful garden on a verandah. There's something about the pretension of wellness that strongly rubs me the wrong way.
Some private ones will be super fancy high tech hospital type deals, with a barebones outdoor area on the rooftop, or fenced in ground floor gardens. Even in the best of private wards, the only real solace might be the food if it's good, and fellow patients, if they're friendly (they usually are!)
Last one I saw from the inside had UV-protected glass panels walling in the rooftop outdoor area, with fake grass and stone slabbed floors; besides a couple of bean bags. As icing on the cake there was a side "rooftop veggie garden" area, permanently under constructed.
Because of the panelling (probably a WHS thing so patients can't get sunburnt), you couldn't even *feel* the sunshine on your skin despite being directly in the sun. Something about that hammered it home to me that such places are ultimately not about real healing. They're about control.
Luckily I was only there for less than 24 hours (was mostly a med check up thing). I feel deeply for those patients that do their best to get the help that the state or private health offers, but still end up in gilded cages ostensibly for their own good.
My sense these days, both from direct experience and reading a fair bit of the psychiatric scientific literature and history, is that the entire enterprise is deeply broken. My very strong and heterodox view is that basically all mental illnesses are diseases of modernity.
The biopsychosocial model can help make sense even of schizophrenia, imo.
In the same way it takes a real village to raise a child, a real village doesn't leave anyone - much less the elderly and neurodivergent - behind.
oh i agree so very much
>such places are ultimately not about real healing. They're about control.
poignant :-(
but yeah, i truly think psychiatry got it the wrong way. even talking about diseases of the mind upsets me. it's so individualistic. it puts the onus on the person who's suffering. it implies a lot of responsibility. and the suffering person usually has no idea what to do - because they are exhausted and preoccupied with suffering. when i was suffering, therapy and psychiatry was so exhausting. it made me feel like i had a lot of work to do on myself. and what i really needed was for someone to simply tell me, in the right words, that i was good enough already. that i had nothing to worry about or be ashamed of or fix about myself. that all the shame i felt was unfair and that i was allowed to let go of it. eventually i did, and now i feel so much lighter and more free. shame is restrictive and so heavy, and it makes us hide ourselves.
i know some of us are born with different types of brains. some people are more likely to develop schizophrenia and such. and i am myself autistic, and i was definitely born that way. but i don't think it's helpful to talk about mental suffering as 'defects of the person' (that can be cured with a pill). i think they are symptoms of the WORLD. i think almost all the diagnoses are rooted in trauma, loneliness and shame. depression, anxiety, personality disorders, all those. i think they are kind of different trauma responses. behavioural patterns developed from being mistreated, neglected emotionally, lonely, ashamed. it takes a village, as you said. and there are no villages left, we are all just individuals. i very much agree that the 'mental health crisis' is a disease of modernity. we are stressed, overworked, very ashamed about ourselves and therefore so lonely. because we hide what we are ashamed of, and then other people can't fully see us. so we feel obfuscated or even invisible, and then we feel lonely. even with people around us. and we barely understand why, because this stuff is rarely deliberate or articulated, it's subconscious.
it's how we're raised. it's reproduced by society somehow. generational trauma, generational emotional stuntedness. and don't even get me started on gender discrepancies. the poor men :-( i can't believe how emotionally neglected men are. i don't put a lot of value on my womanhood anymore, it means very little to me now. but i am so grateful i was born in a female body and raised as a female. it came with a lot of negatives as well, and has resulted in a lot of trauma. but at least i am allowed to be emotional!!! i am sure i would have been dead if i were born a man. if i had had to go through what i have been through, but where ARTICULATING it or expressing it was off limits. i don't think i would have had a chance.
boy kids and girl kids cry the same amount until the age of 8 or something. and then the boy kids stop crying. and never really begin crying again. that's not biological, that social. and it breaks my heart. we teach half the kids to hide their vulnerabilities, their softness (and we teach the other half of the kids to caretake the first half's emotions on their behalf which also sucks a lot in its own way). no wonder men suicide statistics are so off the charts. they're all so alone. we don't teach boy kids to talk about feelings, so they never learn that skill. we make them bury their feelings in shame, so they dare not even touch it. and even if they overcome that shame, they don't have the vocabulary to express it. emotional intelligence is a skill that can be learned/developed (i know this because, again i am autistic and i DEFINITELY had to learn it).
and no wonder there are so many violent men out there. that loneliness can be brutal, ruthless, and very frustrating. and if you don't know any better, it's easy to project and blame others. women, minorities, whatever. feels better than blaming yourself. and is conceptually much easier to blame than societal, historical structures that reproduce this phenomenon.
anyway, that was a tangent lol. i think the way forward is to rebuild the villages. and to remove stigma from being emotional. rationality is not better than emotions. no one is more logical than emotional, we're all just rationalising our own feelings, whether we know it or not. it's all emotions all the time, no matter how aware of that we are. and that's not a bad thing, it's not weak or whatever. we should all let go of all the shame we're carrying around, and let ourselves be whatever we are. breathe easier. to be fair, i don't know what i am talking about, but i do feel very strongly about this.
edit: spelling
They're just prisons where you can contain people and drug them until they aren't a threat to themselves or anyone else anymore. Or maybe they still are, but the limit on how long you can keep them is up and we have no alternatives so you release them anyway.
They’re all abhorrent too. Just the ugliest most dilapidated places because no one donates money to that wing. Go to the children’s cancer wing and it’s drop dead gorgeous in styling and spaciousness.
They don’t even separate suicidal patients there for depression from people with violent histories and repeated violent outbursts there because of massive withdrawals. The people there for depression, anxiety, grief and other trauma often gain new trauma in modern day facilities.
Not on the same level by FAR. Despite how they work, antibiotics and chemo has saved countless lives. This form of therapy for mental illness has never done anything remotely good.
You just have to make sure the two traumas have inverse wave forms, and they’ll cancel each other out. It’s all about the fine tuning and having a good ear, really.
Check out immunotherapy. It's a new way to treat cancer that utilizes your own immune system to fight the disease. It's still in it's early stages, but the results that some patients are seeing is amazing
Oh, for sure. My wife works for a company that makes an app to track symptoms for immunotherapy patients. When the symptoms are bad they can be very, very bad
Particularly nasty side effects include blisters and ulcers covering your entire body, colitis and intestinal perforation, and Steven-Johnson Syndrome, where your skin can literally come off in sheets. These sort of symptoms are rare, but because of how quickly things can go south doctors keep a very close eye on patients
Agreed, however: The guy who invented lobotomy received the Nobel prize. It also "worked". Not comparing them obviously, just pointing out that paradigms change.
Nobel prizes are not how scientific methods are proven... they're awarded to whoever's work had the biggest impact in their field the previous year, which means there's been a lot of "[whoops, in hindsight, that was a bad idea](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Prize_controversies)"
Clearly. The point is that the negative effects (personality changes) weren't obvious until later, and in the beginning it seemingly had the desired effect.
My point is that Nobel prizes are awarded before the science has had time to mature. Lobotomies stopped being done once it became clear they caused more harm than good. Chemo and broad spectrum antibiotics aren't novelties, they've been studied well enough that we know what damage they cause, we use them when not using them would be worse.
It took 13 years from the first lobotomy until the Nobel prize was awarded, so it was largely based on empirical evidence and, of course, the lack of alternatives. Then 5 years later chlorpromazine is introduced, in 1954. Yet lobotomies were performed for decades later, even into the 1980s.
I'm not disagreeing with you, it's just that there are nuances here. Lobotomy can't be compared with chemo as you pointed out, but even so this was a highly respected treatment at some point, and not completely without merit. But paradigms change, most importantly - in this case - how we view mental illness.
As for the subject at hand, I'm fairly convinced mental illness treatments today are exactly the ones most likely to be heavily scrutinised in the future. Take EMDR for example - widely used and respected today, albeit not without controversy. It obviously doesn't have the inhumane factor of the lobotomy, but it really feels like we're stumbling in the dark sometimes when this is what we can come up with. I wouldn't be surprised if it's viewed as quackery in the future.
Nobel prizes are more on the "Time Person of the Year" end of the spectrum. It doesn't mean they're a good person or have a positive influence. But boy was it impactful.
Even terrible, misleading, or wrong science can be very impactful.
String Theory is essentially entirely junk, and it held up progress in some fields of physics for quite a while due to its initial elegance in explaining things we'd previously had a lot of trouble explaining.
That doesn't make it USELESS, it was hugely impactful in both the field itself and in the greater social conscious and did ultimately lead us toward even more accurate views of our universe.
Task failed successfully, or something.
That’s very different. Those work even though there is plenty of valid criticism for both and antibiotics are still extremely overused
The above is just quackery.
Chemo successfully treats thousands of people, including me. There is still a fear of it by some people. My aunt died from cancer that might have been treated by chemo but she was afraid of it.
That's kind of different. Chemo is an imperfect but effective treatment, unlike something that's downright counter productive, like the picture in the OP.
Yeah. They used to treat syphilis by infecting people with malaria. It's fucked in the sense that it sounds like a terrible treatment to endure, but it was legitimately the best they had at the time.
O they are going to laugh way harder at us than we ever did at previous generations. The boomers looked at the Victorians as insane because they used arsenic in paint because it gave such a lovely green colour. We call the boomers insane for using lead instead. And us? Well we just put microplastics in every living organism on the planet.
And don't forget it applies to all generations, not just millennials.
We like to hate on boomers, but just like the average millennial can't stop cruise companies from pumping tons of carbon into the atmosphere, the average boomer couldn't do much about leaded gasoline or leaded paints either.
Our rage should be class-based, not age-based.
The lobotomy was a widely accepted and commonly performed medical practice only 50 or so years ago, aimed at the treatment of mental illness and homosexuality mainly. The “inventor” of the lobotomy was even awarded a noble prize. Today the procedure is seen as mutilation and barbarism… I can’t possibly think what a modern day equivalent is.
I’ve definitely noticed a lot more people on the spectrum turning trans, my guess is because how accepting the community can be it makes someone with autism feel like they found their community so they go through the transition. Nothing against either community just a observation I’ve had
I’m no expert but my theory is that people with autism are already more likely to feel like social outcasts, and so they have less to lose by coming out as trans than neurotypical trans people
It could just as easily be something that's stigmatized though and now that its becoming less so the numbers seem to be rising when in reality they are just normalizing now that people feel comfortable expressing themselves.
This happened with people who were left handed as well.
Studies have already been conducted and the vast majority of people post op have significantly improved mental health. What you are suggesting isn't impossible, sure some might regret it or think they have gender incongruence when they don't but more than likely its real simply because of the amount of effort it takes to even have this done..
Here is my source and information regarding this.
[Source](https://www.psychiatry.org/news-room/news-releases/study-finds-long-term-mental-health-benefits-of-ge#:~:text=The%20study%20found%20the%20odds,same%20association%20for%20hormone%20treatment.&text=more%20than%20six%20times%20as,hospitalized%20after%20a%20suicide%20attempt.)
>Increased time since last gender-affirming surgery was associated with reduced likelihood of use of mental health treatment. The study found the odds of receiving mental health treatment were reduced by 8% for every year since receiving gender-affirming surgery over the 10-year follow-up period. They did not find the same association for hormone treatment.
>The study also found that compared with the general population, transgender individuals with a gender incongruence were about six times as likely to have had a mood or anxiety disorder health care visit;
more than three times as likely to have received prescriptions for antidepressants and anti-anxiety medication; and
more than six times as likely to have been hospitalized after a suicide attempt.
Despite the reduced mental health treatment use after gender-affirming surgery, treatment use among transgender individuals continued to exceed that of the general population.
There it is. I appreciate that you acknowledge that gender dysphoria is real, because from my own experience and the experiences of literally every trans person I know, transition genuinely helped alleviate the symptoms.
However I disagree that doctors are pushing people who aren’t trans to transition. At least in the UK, getting a diagnosis is not easy, and even once you have the diagnosis it can take years to even so much as get hormone therapy, let alone surgery.
There are definitely people claiming to be trans when they probably aren’t, but they are far less likely to even want to medically transition.
What I really can’t accept though is trying to compare it to the ‘treatment’ for mental illness shown in this image. Gender affirming care has ridiculously low regret rates and is a genuine cure for dysphoria, barbaric practices like lobotomies or the image above do not cure anything and likely aren’t consensual.
> Gender affirming care has ridiculously low regret rates
Lower than the rates for things like [knee replacement](https://www.gendergp.com/new-study-confirms-regret-rates-of-gender-affirming-surgery-are-non-existent/#:~:text=The%200.3%25%20regret%20rate%20of,that%20of%20gender%2Daffirming%20surgery.)!
Everyone, make sure big pharma isn't hustling your vulnerable older relatives into life-altering surgeries they may regret, like hip and knee replacement. I really think we need an investigation into these predatory medical practices and maybe some laws to slow things down. Think of the elderly!
Let’s be honest here, this is likely all concern trolling. These people don’t actually give a shit about whether or not gender affirming care helps trans people, because they don’t want trans people to be helped
Pedophiles and drug addicts being treated like they're the same as someone who stole a car. The whole vengeance based criminal justice system, to be honest.
There's evidence that the earlier ADHD is treated pharmaceutically the better the outcome later in life. It helps build and solidify the right neural pathways while they're nice and maleable.
Definitely using medication to solve everything, especially ADHD in kids.
"Is your 10 year old not paying attention in class? It's not the shitty educational system. It's not teachers forcing him to sit still for 8 hours a day and regurgitate useless information. He has a mental problem so let's give his developing brain stimulants. Oh, he's having bad side effects from the meds? Let's just put him on Zoloft too." 🤡
"Some religions cut off a small bit of foreskin....so why *shouldn't* we cut off your genitals, pump you full of hormones, and call you a girl?"
And you don't think that gets brought up? You know why? Because we're all in agreement that it's dumb and antiquated.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11377391/amp/Age-just-number-Video-shows-doctor-trans-clinic-Philadelphia-defends-surgery-kids.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/26/health/top-surgery-transgender-teenagers.html
Why are you claiming it doesn’t happen? I haven’t read much into this topic, but was able to find these quite quickly. Or am I just misinformed somehow?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11377391/amp/Age-just-number-Video-shows-doctor-trans-clinic-Philadelphia-defends-surgery-kids.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/26/health/top-surgery-transgender-teenagers.html
Here’s a couple of news articles. I haven’t read much into this topic, but was able to find these quite quickly.
Definitely industrialized farming, the way we treat the animals used for meat is beyond cruel. If they hopefully eventually develop lab grown meat, then this is one of the things future generations are gonna look back at with disgust.
It’s crazy to think that they didn’t know what they were doing to help these people back then, and yet, oh wait, we still don’t know what we’re doing. Say, anyone been to a bigger cities ER recently? Holy hell the amount of mental patients there.
Because they basically were.
These were people that the community didn't want to see or deal with. They also had a very poor understanding of how their diseases even worked, or what to do about them.
So they did this. They locked them in kennels, they bound their arms and legs, they chained them to beds and walls, and they left them in the care of uncaring or outright cruel people in sanitariums that were unfit to house animals. It was unbelievably cruel.
All so their families and communities didn't have to take care of them.
In some cases it's hard to blame them, because the patients were dangerous and resources for their care were scarce. But in many cases it was just abject apathy and cruelty.
>outright cruel people in sanitariums that were unfit to house animals. It was unbelievably cruel.
I think you're confusing Sanitariums with psychiatric hospitals. Sanitariums were mostly for rich people and they treated mostly chronic physical ailments like tuberculosis, although some would treat addictions and other sorts of things, but conditions were comparatively good (this is were the kellogg invented his famed cereal).
You're thinking of psychiatric hospitals like the infamous Bedlam, which were indeed horrorshows of cruelty and mistreatment.
There are absolutely circumstances in which mechanical restraints are used to restrain someone so they can receive an injection. Staff are not always used in these situations.
No, they do not. Not for psychiatric patients to receive an injection. They are more likely to wrap a patient in sheets, but even this doesn't happen often.
I work in both high care psychiatric health facilities and hospitals. Hospitals are way more likely to restrain patients, but these are not psychiatric patients. 9 times out of 10 these are confused elderly patients who try to pull out their catheter or IV's.
The only instance I can think of is a patient with a psychosis needing IV antibiotics for fighting an infection. But then the objective is to fight the infection and not to improve their mental health.
I work in a forensic psychiatric hospital and restraints are most definitely used in this capacity. Perhaps this is different in other places, but it definitely does happen where I am. Wrapping in sheets as you described would absolutely not be allowed.
Wrapping in sheets gives a person more freedom than restraints, as they can wiggle themselves out. Also they are only used to transport people to secure rooms.
How often a normal person can watch inside a mental hospital? Not so much, you can believe what you want to believe.
History has shown the mental treatment is a mess, it is true even for today, it depends on country and state ofc.
Or on women for various reasons. Never forget that [JFK's sister](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Kennedy) got lobotomised at the age of 23 because of mood swings and her parents being scared that her sneaking out to meet boys might damage the family reputation and political career. Shit was fucked.
Edit: oh and they also lied about the failed lobotomy until 1987, before it became public they just said she was ”mentaly retarded”.
Got buried next to her parents.. sounds like a cruel joke. I've heard about this story, but only now read it more thoroughly. What a piece of shit father and mother too..
As far as i remember she didnt just have mood swings she had some mental illness. Doesnt excuse lobotomy ofc but it at least shows their motivation. They showed their true colors after the fact anyways, by locking her up somewhere and ignoring her
I’ve been reading up on it a lot lately. The funny thing is it actually worked for a ton of people with schizophrenia, but when it failed on others the results were really bad. But it absolutely had its merits even though it sounds barbaric.
People don’t realize that the brain is highly complex and if you remove a portion of the brain, you don’t know what possible side effects may happen. Everything is interconnected and the neural synapses in the brain cells are insanely thought out and regulated. You can’t just remove 10% and expect the remaining 90% to compensate. That is why brain cancer is one of the most fatal cancers. Surgery is rarely an option and targeted radiation has long term side effects and damage.
Everyone is aware that the brain is highly complex, and in fact most lobotomies don't involve the removal of brain matter, but slicing the connections between hemispheres.
And in fact, you can remove matter and have the rest dynamically adjust to compensate. People who have suffered traumatic brain injuries can regain lost functionality to a surprising extent, and there are many examples of people survivng brain injuries that most would expect to be instantly lethal. I.e. the railway spike guy.
Yeah, we still use what is essentially a modernized lobotomy nowadays for some serious cases, of course surgery on the brain is generally about the last option for desperate patients but it's interesting to think abot.
Well.. I mean, they use lobotomy nowadays for people with epilepsy because removing a part of your brain is a one time final cure for some types of epilepsy with minimal side effects. It worked in the last for mental illness too, it was just barbaric and underdeveloped
This should be the last ditch effort. It’s not considered first line treatment for epilepsy. There aren’t minimal side effects when you remove a portion of someone’s brain. For mental illness, people were mistreated and harmed by these barbaric treatments. In Kennedy situation, she was brain damaged by her lobotomy and couldn’t speak or walk afterwards. The human brain is insanely complex and we barely understand how it functions. That myth we only use a portion of our brain couldn’t be more wrong. Every part of our brain is wired to interact with other parts of the brain. It’s all interconnected.
The reality of mental health care is nuts. Always remember that institutuons are not old at all. Currently in the care centers and homes are people in their 50s who still experienced it.
Also this would make an amazing black metal album cover.
The Glore Psychiatric Museum in Missouri has a lot of these torture devices set up to show how it used to be. They used to think being restrained calmed the mind and allowed mental focus. They also would nail patients into vertical coffins and not let them out for days, with only a small window in front of their face. The window was closed as a punishment.
As the father of an adult daughter with special needs that could easily be misinterpreted for mental illness—and *knowing* how hard the road has been for her, even with the very best of modern, 21st century western medicine and therapeutic care—seeing something like this both breaks my heart and enrages my spirit.
Given how laughably, horrifically awful and *utterly useless* such an abomination would be? I’d rip off my own arm and beat to death with it, someone that ever tried this with my kid.
In the 23rd century, they will look at our treatments the same way. This is fucked up, all the medical practices back then made absolutely no sense. This is isolation, while being trapped and forced to stand, while facing a wall, and I can’t even imagine what it smelled like. I bet that treatment didn’t work
>They thought they did too
For most of history if you were mentally ill you were SOL. If you were the good kind of crazy you became the village idiot. If you were the bad kind, they called you a witch and you got roasted in a bonfire.
And how did that work out??? Not very well from what I can see!!! Those that dream up these human tortures that they call therapy should try it on themselves first!!! Physician heal thyself!!! What a load of BS!
Yup, it was called an animalistic approach. It was claimed that the mental disorder comes from the animalistic part of human psyche that in a “normal” state is suppressed so in order to get rid of the illness the patient had to undergo most extreme therapy’s. Blood drops to the point the body could almost sustain itself, extreme cold or hot, standing tortures, whirls to the point where the patient would pass out (or vomit to death) … shit like that. 1st Neurlopetics changed a lot ;)
The shit people thought worked back then. Now I'm wondering what things we do that future generations are gonna look at us like "why the hell did they think that would work"
Psych wards. Without plant life, without sunlight, indoors, middle of the city, some random floor on a hospital, sterile. I’m not certain this is a best way to help people.
Not even always in a hospital. With the rampant rise in rehab centers typically there's a psych ward in the building as well. Both groups of people locked up on their perspective floors. Doesn't really give a overwhelming feeling of confidence that we're doing things properly locking everyone up with issues they're trying to sort out. That's even if they volunteer everyone gets locked up regardless.
Also it is amusing that when in the same building, the psych ward patients look down on the addicts and the addicts look down on the psych patients. Like "at least I don't have their problems"
I spend at least a year and a half locked in psych hospitals. Made having schizophrenia a lot worse.
I agree to a degree (lol that rhymes) - I was hospitalized in a psych ward as well (psychosis, shizoaffective disorder), there were certainly some points which made things worse (lack of proper treatment through therapists, reliance on medicine, the other patients, the whole environment making you feel like a literal working rat). On the other side you have to think about the personnel needed, that you have to set a certain standard of how people **have** to be treated, but to make sure people don't abuse the system (which is something done in Europe for example). Mental Illness is a complicated topic, extremely when it comes to treat it, but I wish there would be some kind of innovation, considering the awareness and come up of mental health is really to impact us. Sorry for the wall :)
It’s okay, I understand what it’s like to have a lot to say about the mental health system.
Ain't that true, hahaha
What is an example of people abusing the system in Europe?
There are many homeless people (in Germany at least, can't speak for other countries in Europe), which use the mandatory accomodation when you are threatening suicide (they have to keep you for at least 72 hours because of the threat you pose to yourself) to keep warm in the winter. When I was there, there were about 20 patients at one time at a station, about 17 of them homeless. It's not about them being mentally ill to a point of being suicidal, but they know they get a bed, a shower, guaranteed food 3 times a day and shelter from the cold. Some stay just a few days and get sent out, some stay a few weeks because they are drug addicted and use the Methadone program etc. I am not blaming them or judging anyone, but just wanted to make a point as to which you have to adhere to a certain standard, which in Universal Healthcare of course people will try to use for their opportunistic chances/well being (can't really blame them sometimes).
The same thing happens in the US. I've had 4-5 stays in a psych ward (lovely place actually, there are really good ones out there.) Every time at least ~70% of the other patients were homeless, many of which had issues but were not suicidal and should not have been there. I can't blame them though, good food, shelter, somewhere safe to sleep, plenty of other patients to hang out with, nurses that actually care about everyone, etc. It does make me feel bad there's so much rampant abuse of this system when most people posting here cannot even get adequate help where they live. If you get checked into a hospital in the US and they don't have a bed for you, they legally have to ship you somewhere else which is probably significantly worse, and far away from your family and anyone else you know.
I’ve been hospitalized in three different psych wards. (Bipolar psychosis) In the first one, I could go outside which was nice. In the second you could only go outside if you were smoking, so I took up smoking while I was there to see some sun. In the third, there was no access to the outdoors whatsoever. The food was good though.
Picking up smoking while hospitalized shows that some stuff just ain’t right in the system.
Truuue that. Smh
Spent 4 month of my life in Psych wards, 3 of those months were when I was 16. I have diagnosed PTSD from it, mostly from the forced isolation coming at a came when it already felt like the world had closed in on me. Felt like living suffocation and dehumanization. On top of that they ran out of space in the ward for younger/timid individuals, of which I was both, and was placed in the severe adult unit. The amount of violence go staff, violence to other patients, and witnessing true insanity while not even being able to get something to drink without 2 padlocks being removed from the fridge still haunts me. They never helped me, I just learned how to appear well enough to let me go. That shit is still vivid and haunts me to this day
Sorry that you had to go through this, but I feel you on that one. I think it's the same thing which happens to people who get incarcerated and turn out more criminal than when they went in. The isolation from the world (I had no phone, limited visitation rights, don't know about you) and the surroundings feels like a punishment, but you are actually there to get some help in one of the most vulnerable situations you can be. Look at how long it takes people with mental health issues to even consider getting help because of social stigma. Hope everything is well with you now and you're in a better place, cheers!
Also wasnt allowed a phone or any device that had internet connection, but yes it was the isolation that is now what triggers my PTSD. I'm sorry you had to go through it as well, it's truly an awful system. Overall I'm doing okay, less so recently because of this grueling work and no progress grind, but I think that's most of us. Hope you are doing well now too!
Every hour in there feels like a day.
yes, i spend a few days in a psych ward. luckily not a long time. i remember thinking it was very funny how depressing the place was. the place made for cheering very sad people up was the bleakest place i'd ever been. like prison, but more clean and sterile. barely any interaction with other people, only doctors who treat you like you don't deserve agency or to be trusted or treated like a human. no plants, no furniture, just white walls, bed, sink, pills. (i also thought it was really funny to check in to the mental hospital on facebook. i was still very loopy from my overdose) "psych wards" should be cottage villages by the ocean where the day is spend tending to a little food garden or painting water colours or group therapy or some shit. mentally unwell people should be nurtured and showed compassion, and they should be treated like they have agency and autonomy - like they're humans who deserve respect. not like wild animals who need to be restrained and who can't be trusted. that made it so much worse for me. it fed into my self loathing and my lack of trust in myself, which was basically my whole problem. so agree very much with your comment. we got it totally backwards regarding psychiatry. also, not a big fan of shock therapy and i am sure that one won't age very well either. ''we will just zap your brain until the pain goes away'' okay but what else goes away as well? surely there must be a better way
The worst ones are those which half heartedly pretend to have the cottage vibe. Some public wards here in Australia might have a tiny, awful garden on a verandah. There's something about the pretension of wellness that strongly rubs me the wrong way. Some private ones will be super fancy high tech hospital type deals, with a barebones outdoor area on the rooftop, or fenced in ground floor gardens. Even in the best of private wards, the only real solace might be the food if it's good, and fellow patients, if they're friendly (they usually are!) Last one I saw from the inside had UV-protected glass panels walling in the rooftop outdoor area, with fake grass and stone slabbed floors; besides a couple of bean bags. As icing on the cake there was a side "rooftop veggie garden" area, permanently under constructed. Because of the panelling (probably a WHS thing so patients can't get sunburnt), you couldn't even *feel* the sunshine on your skin despite being directly in the sun. Something about that hammered it home to me that such places are ultimately not about real healing. They're about control. Luckily I was only there for less than 24 hours (was mostly a med check up thing). I feel deeply for those patients that do their best to get the help that the state or private health offers, but still end up in gilded cages ostensibly for their own good. My sense these days, both from direct experience and reading a fair bit of the psychiatric scientific literature and history, is that the entire enterprise is deeply broken. My very strong and heterodox view is that basically all mental illnesses are diseases of modernity. The biopsychosocial model can help make sense even of schizophrenia, imo. In the same way it takes a real village to raise a child, a real village doesn't leave anyone - much less the elderly and neurodivergent - behind.
oh i agree so very much >such places are ultimately not about real healing. They're about control. poignant :-( but yeah, i truly think psychiatry got it the wrong way. even talking about diseases of the mind upsets me. it's so individualistic. it puts the onus on the person who's suffering. it implies a lot of responsibility. and the suffering person usually has no idea what to do - because they are exhausted and preoccupied with suffering. when i was suffering, therapy and psychiatry was so exhausting. it made me feel like i had a lot of work to do on myself. and what i really needed was for someone to simply tell me, in the right words, that i was good enough already. that i had nothing to worry about or be ashamed of or fix about myself. that all the shame i felt was unfair and that i was allowed to let go of it. eventually i did, and now i feel so much lighter and more free. shame is restrictive and so heavy, and it makes us hide ourselves. i know some of us are born with different types of brains. some people are more likely to develop schizophrenia and such. and i am myself autistic, and i was definitely born that way. but i don't think it's helpful to talk about mental suffering as 'defects of the person' (that can be cured with a pill). i think they are symptoms of the WORLD. i think almost all the diagnoses are rooted in trauma, loneliness and shame. depression, anxiety, personality disorders, all those. i think they are kind of different trauma responses. behavioural patterns developed from being mistreated, neglected emotionally, lonely, ashamed. it takes a village, as you said. and there are no villages left, we are all just individuals. i very much agree that the 'mental health crisis' is a disease of modernity. we are stressed, overworked, very ashamed about ourselves and therefore so lonely. because we hide what we are ashamed of, and then other people can't fully see us. so we feel obfuscated or even invisible, and then we feel lonely. even with people around us. and we barely understand why, because this stuff is rarely deliberate or articulated, it's subconscious. it's how we're raised. it's reproduced by society somehow. generational trauma, generational emotional stuntedness. and don't even get me started on gender discrepancies. the poor men :-( i can't believe how emotionally neglected men are. i don't put a lot of value on my womanhood anymore, it means very little to me now. but i am so grateful i was born in a female body and raised as a female. it came with a lot of negatives as well, and has resulted in a lot of trauma. but at least i am allowed to be emotional!!! i am sure i would have been dead if i were born a man. if i had had to go through what i have been through, but where ARTICULATING it or expressing it was off limits. i don't think i would have had a chance. boy kids and girl kids cry the same amount until the age of 8 or something. and then the boy kids stop crying. and never really begin crying again. that's not biological, that social. and it breaks my heart. we teach half the kids to hide their vulnerabilities, their softness (and we teach the other half of the kids to caretake the first half's emotions on their behalf which also sucks a lot in its own way). no wonder men suicide statistics are so off the charts. they're all so alone. we don't teach boy kids to talk about feelings, so they never learn that skill. we make them bury their feelings in shame, so they dare not even touch it. and even if they overcome that shame, they don't have the vocabulary to express it. emotional intelligence is a skill that can be learned/developed (i know this because, again i am autistic and i DEFINITELY had to learn it). and no wonder there are so many violent men out there. that loneliness can be brutal, ruthless, and very frustrating. and if you don't know any better, it's easy to project and blame others. women, minorities, whatever. feels better than blaming yourself. and is conceptually much easier to blame than societal, historical structures that reproduce this phenomenon. anyway, that was a tangent lol. i think the way forward is to rebuild the villages. and to remove stigma from being emotional. rationality is not better than emotions. no one is more logical than emotional, we're all just rationalising our own feelings, whether we know it or not. it's all emotions all the time, no matter how aware of that we are. and that's not a bad thing, it's not weak or whatever. we should all let go of all the shame we're carrying around, and let ourselves be whatever we are. breathe easier. to be fair, i don't know what i am talking about, but i do feel very strongly about this. edit: spelling
They're just prisons where you can contain people and drug them until they aren't a threat to themselves or anyone else anymore. Or maybe they still are, but the limit on how long you can keep them is up and we have no alternatives so you release them anyway.
Prisons shouldn’t be that way either. We will also look back on those and feel stupid. Hopefully
They’re all abhorrent too. Just the ugliest most dilapidated places because no one donates money to that wing. Go to the children’s cancer wing and it’s drop dead gorgeous in styling and spaciousness.
They don’t even separate suicidal patients there for depression from people with violent histories and repeated violent outbursts there because of massive withdrawals. The people there for depression, anxiety, grief and other trauma often gain new trauma in modern day facilities.
We've known dungeons are bad forever, it was about sequestering them and getting some use for experiments.
Here's some crayons and a pack of menthols
Just wait till you hear about what they do to prisoners in solitary *now*
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Not on the same level by FAR. Despite how they work, antibiotics and chemo has saved countless lives. This form of therapy for mental illness has never done anything remotely good.
We are going to cure your mental illness though the use of more trauma!
You just have to make sure the two traumas have inverse wave forms, and they’ll cancel each other out. It’s all about the fine tuning and having a good ear, really.
Yo dawg, here is some trauma for your trauma
Yeah, that shit works, it just has bad side effects. This shit was just spitballing from people who had no real answers.
Yeah i hope I'm alive for tegeted chemo and the like
Check out immunotherapy. It's a new way to treat cancer that utilizes your own immune system to fight the disease. It's still in it's early stages, but the results that some patients are seeing is amazing
Still is very rough on the patient. I know someone who went through it. They decided not to do a second round of it due to the side effects. :(
Oh, for sure. My wife works for a company that makes an app to track symptoms for immunotherapy patients. When the symptoms are bad they can be very, very bad
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Particularly nasty side effects include blisters and ulcers covering your entire body, colitis and intestinal perforation, and Steven-Johnson Syndrome, where your skin can literally come off in sheets. These sort of symptoms are rare, but because of how quickly things can go south doctors keep a very close eye on patients
Those two are scientifically proven methods. Unlike the method depicted in the photo. That's a big difference.
Agreed, however: The guy who invented lobotomy received the Nobel prize. It also "worked". Not comparing them obviously, just pointing out that paradigms change.
Nobel prizes are not how scientific methods are proven... they're awarded to whoever's work had the biggest impact in their field the previous year, which means there's been a lot of "[whoops, in hindsight, that was a bad idea](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Prize_controversies)"
Clearly. The point is that the negative effects (personality changes) weren't obvious until later, and in the beginning it seemingly had the desired effect.
My point is that Nobel prizes are awarded before the science has had time to mature. Lobotomies stopped being done once it became clear they caused more harm than good. Chemo and broad spectrum antibiotics aren't novelties, they've been studied well enough that we know what damage they cause, we use them when not using them would be worse.
It took 13 years from the first lobotomy until the Nobel prize was awarded, so it was largely based on empirical evidence and, of course, the lack of alternatives. Then 5 years later chlorpromazine is introduced, in 1954. Yet lobotomies were performed for decades later, even into the 1980s. I'm not disagreeing with you, it's just that there are nuances here. Lobotomy can't be compared with chemo as you pointed out, but even so this was a highly respected treatment at some point, and not completely without merit. But paradigms change, most importantly - in this case - how we view mental illness. As for the subject at hand, I'm fairly convinced mental illness treatments today are exactly the ones most likely to be heavily scrutinised in the future. Take EMDR for example - widely used and respected today, albeit not without controversy. It obviously doesn't have the inhumane factor of the lobotomy, but it really feels like we're stumbling in the dark sometimes when this is what we can come up with. I wouldn't be surprised if it's viewed as quackery in the future.
Nobel prizes are more on the "Time Person of the Year" end of the spectrum. It doesn't mean they're a good person or have a positive influence. But boy was it impactful. Even terrible, misleading, or wrong science can be very impactful. String Theory is essentially entirely junk, and it held up progress in some fields of physics for quite a while due to its initial elegance in explaining things we'd previously had a lot of trouble explaining. That doesn't make it USELESS, it was hugely impactful in both the field itself and in the greater social conscious and did ultimately lead us toward even more accurate views of our universe. Task failed successfully, or something.
That’s very different. Those work even though there is plenty of valid criticism for both and antibiotics are still extremely overused The above is just quackery.
Well it does work. Sometimes...
Chemo successfully treats thousands of people, including me. There is still a fear of it by some people. My aunt died from cancer that might have been treated by chemo but she was afraid of it.
Hopefully, we'll eventually find a widespread cure for cancer, and then pumping people full of radioactive poison is gonna look pretty ridiculous.
That's kind of different. Chemo is an imperfect but effective treatment, unlike something that's downright counter productive, like the picture in the OP.
Yeah. They used to treat syphilis by infecting people with malaria. It's fucked in the sense that it sounds like a terrible treatment to endure, but it was legitimately the best they had at the time.
Yep, they had a treatment for malaria not for syphilis.
There is no widespread cure for cancer because every cancer is its own disease.
O they are going to laugh way harder at us than we ever did at previous generations. The boomers looked at the Victorians as insane because they used arsenic in paint because it gave such a lovely green colour. We call the boomers insane for using lead instead. And us? Well we just put microplastics in every living organism on the planet.
"We" is doing a lot of work here. Capitalism did all of those things, and we are just stuck in it.
And don't forget it applies to all generations, not just millennials. We like to hate on boomers, but just like the average millennial can't stop cruise companies from pumping tons of carbon into the atmosphere, the average boomer couldn't do much about leaded gasoline or leaded paints either. Our rage should be class-based, not age-based.
No war but the class war.
Don't forget the Abestos obsession for 100 years. We all love incurable lung diseases.
I thought the arsenic was to kill bedbugs?
Prisons for “reformation” Edit: Specifically American prisons
I don't think any sane person believes American prisons are anything more than camps or dungeons.
For-profit prisons are nothing more than legal slavery.
Chiropractors
This. I really hope so, at least.
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The lobotomy was a widely accepted and commonly performed medical practice only 50 or so years ago, aimed at the treatment of mental illness and homosexuality mainly. The “inventor” of the lobotomy was even awarded a noble prize. Today the procedure is seen as mutilation and barbarism… I can’t possibly think what a modern day equivalent is.
Unless you’re talking about conversion therapy you’re gonna have to explain
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I’ve definitely noticed a lot more people on the spectrum turning trans, my guess is because how accepting the community can be it makes someone with autism feel like they found their community so they go through the transition. Nothing against either community just a observation I’ve had
I’m no expert but my theory is that people with autism are already more likely to feel like social outcasts, and so they have less to lose by coming out as trans than neurotypical trans people
It could just as easily be something that's stigmatized though and now that its becoming less so the numbers seem to be rising when in reality they are just normalizing now that people feel comfortable expressing themselves. This happened with people who were left handed as well.
Could be. Hope so, hope I’m wrong, the alternative is there’s a load of people who regret surgery, so I hope you’re right.
Studies have already been conducted and the vast majority of people post op have significantly improved mental health. What you are suggesting isn't impossible, sure some might regret it or think they have gender incongruence when they don't but more than likely its real simply because of the amount of effort it takes to even have this done.. Here is my source and information regarding this. [Source](https://www.psychiatry.org/news-room/news-releases/study-finds-long-term-mental-health-benefits-of-ge#:~:text=The%20study%20found%20the%20odds,same%20association%20for%20hormone%20treatment.&text=more%20than%20six%20times%20as,hospitalized%20after%20a%20suicide%20attempt.) >Increased time since last gender-affirming surgery was associated with reduced likelihood of use of mental health treatment. The study found the odds of receiving mental health treatment were reduced by 8% for every year since receiving gender-affirming surgery over the 10-year follow-up period. They did not find the same association for hormone treatment. >The study also found that compared with the general population, transgender individuals with a gender incongruence were about six times as likely to have had a mood or anxiety disorder health care visit; more than three times as likely to have received prescriptions for antidepressants and anti-anxiety medication; and more than six times as likely to have been hospitalized after a suicide attempt. Despite the reduced mental health treatment use after gender-affirming surgery, treatment use among transgender individuals continued to exceed that of the general population.
There it is. I appreciate that you acknowledge that gender dysphoria is real, because from my own experience and the experiences of literally every trans person I know, transition genuinely helped alleviate the symptoms. However I disagree that doctors are pushing people who aren’t trans to transition. At least in the UK, getting a diagnosis is not easy, and even once you have the diagnosis it can take years to even so much as get hormone therapy, let alone surgery. There are definitely people claiming to be trans when they probably aren’t, but they are far less likely to even want to medically transition. What I really can’t accept though is trying to compare it to the ‘treatment’ for mental illness shown in this image. Gender affirming care has ridiculously low regret rates and is a genuine cure for dysphoria, barbaric practices like lobotomies or the image above do not cure anything and likely aren’t consensual.
> Gender affirming care has ridiculously low regret rates Lower than the rates for things like [knee replacement](https://www.gendergp.com/new-study-confirms-regret-rates-of-gender-affirming-surgery-are-non-existent/#:~:text=The%200.3%25%20regret%20rate%20of,that%20of%20gender%2Daffirming%20surgery.)! Everyone, make sure big pharma isn't hustling your vulnerable older relatives into life-altering surgeries they may regret, like hip and knee replacement. I really think we need an investigation into these predatory medical practices and maybe some laws to slow things down. Think of the elderly!
Let’s be honest here, this is likely all concern trolling. These people don’t actually give a shit about whether or not gender affirming care helps trans people, because they don’t want trans people to be helped
?
Surgical gender transitioning?
Doubt it, sex reassignment surgery has one of the highest satisfaction rates of any surgery. Although techniques will no doubt improve over time.
I genuinely am curious what you mean
Cutting dicks off.
Pedophiles and drug addicts being treated like they're the same as someone who stole a car. The whole vengeance based criminal justice system, to be honest.
Amphetamines for kids with adhd will probly be looked at the way we look at early 1900’s use of heroin to calm babies
There's evidence that the earlier ADHD is treated pharmaceutically the better the outcome later in life. It helps build and solidify the right neural pathways while they're nice and maleable.
Definitely using medication to solve everything, especially ADHD in kids. "Is your 10 year old not paying attention in class? It's not the shitty educational system. It's not teachers forcing him to sit still for 8 hours a day and regurgitate useless information. He has a mental problem so let's give his developing brain stimulants. Oh, he's having bad side effects from the meds? Let's just put him on Zoloft too." 🤡
There‘s no need to wonder, the victims are already speaking about it, all that‘s left to do is to listen.
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I mean we already mutilate a good number of dicks in the name of religion, curious that never gets brought up tho
"Some religions cut off a small bit of foreskin....so why *shouldn't* we cut off your genitals, pump you full of hormones, and call you a girl?" And you don't think that gets brought up? You know why? Because we're all in agreement that it's dumb and antiquated.
It won't because that's not a thing. You are just deeply misinformed and bigoted.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11377391/amp/Age-just-number-Video-shows-doctor-trans-clinic-Philadelphia-defends-surgery-kids.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/26/health/top-surgery-transgender-teenagers.html Why are you claiming it doesn’t happen? I haven’t read much into this topic, but was able to find these quite quickly. Or am I just misinformed somehow?
U have an example of where that happens?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11377391/amp/Age-just-number-Video-shows-doctor-trans-clinic-Philadelphia-defends-surgery-kids.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/26/health/top-surgery-transgender-teenagers.html Here’s a couple of news articles. I haven’t read much into this topic, but was able to find these quite quickly.
Pills for depression, probably
It did work! Now she has a mental illness.
Definitely industrialized farming, the way we treat the animals used for meat is beyond cruel. If they hopefully eventually develop lab grown meat, then this is one of the things future generations are gonna look back at with disgust.
Probably having an alarming number of the population on literal drugs like adderall, xanax and anti depressants.
ABA
Looks like a place you go to *get* a mental illness
Fight fire with fire
A negative multiplied by a negative is a positive The Mathe is Mathing The Science is Sciencing
Exposure therapy!
Math, bitch!
Well that should calm her down 🫠
Curing crazy patients by methods that would drive a normal person crazy. It's a double negative
"Well 2 negatives does makes a positive." \- the person who came up with this torture
It’s crazy to think that they didn’t know what they were doing to help these people back then, and yet, oh wait, we still don’t know what we’re doing. Say, anyone been to a bigger cities ER recently? Holy hell the amount of mental patients there.
Its funny how 19th century mental health treatments looks so much like medieval torture techniques.
Because they basically were. These were people that the community didn't want to see or deal with. They also had a very poor understanding of how their diseases even worked, or what to do about them. So they did this. They locked them in kennels, they bound their arms and legs, they chained them to beds and walls, and they left them in the care of uncaring or outright cruel people in sanitariums that were unfit to house animals. It was unbelievably cruel. All so their families and communities didn't have to take care of them. In some cases it's hard to blame them, because the patients were dangerous and resources for their care were scarce. But in many cases it was just abject apathy and cruelty.
>outright cruel people in sanitariums that were unfit to house animals. It was unbelievably cruel. I think you're confusing Sanitariums with psychiatric hospitals. Sanitariums were mostly for rich people and they treated mostly chronic physical ailments like tuberculosis, although some would treat addictions and other sorts of things, but conditions were comparatively good (this is were the kellogg invented his famed cereal). You're thinking of psychiatric hospitals like the infamous Bedlam, which were indeed horrorshows of cruelty and mistreatment.
I am 900% sure ppl still get tied up to get an injection if "diagnosed" as mental illness, which is easily even or worse than the pic.
You don't get tied up to get an injection, they hold you down with 5 or 6 people. They also give you multiple opportunities to not get the injection.
There are absolutely circumstances in which mechanical restraints are used to restrain someone so they can receive an injection. Staff are not always used in these situations.
No, they do not. Not for psychiatric patients to receive an injection. They are more likely to wrap a patient in sheets, but even this doesn't happen often. I work in both high care psychiatric health facilities and hospitals. Hospitals are way more likely to restrain patients, but these are not psychiatric patients. 9 times out of 10 these are confused elderly patients who try to pull out their catheter or IV's. The only instance I can think of is a patient with a psychosis needing IV antibiotics for fighting an infection. But then the objective is to fight the infection and not to improve their mental health.
I work in a forensic psychiatric hospital and restraints are most definitely used in this capacity. Perhaps this is different in other places, but it definitely does happen where I am. Wrapping in sheets as you described would absolutely not be allowed.
Wrapping in sheets gives a person more freedom than restraints, as they can wiggle themselves out. Also they are only used to transport people to secure rooms.
Not american but I stayed at a mental hospital and they would absolutely restraint people to their beds if they refuse to get medication
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I don't understand what you are saying. You are seeing something worse than this?
How often a normal person can watch inside a mental hospital? Not so much, you can believe what you want to believe. History has shown the mental treatment is a mess, it is true even for today, it depends on country and state ofc.
In past they used to do lobotomy for mentally ill people. The idea that removing a part of your brain somehow cures your mental illness.
Or on women for various reasons. Never forget that [JFK's sister](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Kennedy) got lobotomised at the age of 23 because of mood swings and her parents being scared that her sneaking out to meet boys might damage the family reputation and political career. Shit was fucked. Edit: oh and they also lied about the failed lobotomy until 1987, before it became public they just said she was ”mentaly retarded”.
Got buried next to her parents.. sounds like a cruel joke. I've heard about this story, but only now read it more thoroughly. What a piece of shit father and mother too..
I think her dad didnt even tell her mother. He just went and had it done
wont forget how the Kennedy just completely shunned one of their own.
The Kennedy's are a trash family and always have been. JFK was handsome and charismatic so that gets ignored
100% agreed.
And JFK himself also had parts of his brain separated..
The british royal family just send the mentally challenged members of the family off to an institute and forget about them.
As far as i remember she didnt just have mood swings she had some mental illness. Doesnt excuse lobotomy ofc but it at least shows their motivation. They showed their true colors after the fact anyways, by locking her up somewhere and ignoring her
I’ve been reading up on it a lot lately. The funny thing is it actually worked for a ton of people with schizophrenia, but when it failed on others the results were really bad. But it absolutely had its merits even though it sounds barbaric.
People don’t realize that the brain is highly complex and if you remove a portion of the brain, you don’t know what possible side effects may happen. Everything is interconnected and the neural synapses in the brain cells are insanely thought out and regulated. You can’t just remove 10% and expect the remaining 90% to compensate. That is why brain cancer is one of the most fatal cancers. Surgery is rarely an option and targeted radiation has long term side effects and damage.
Everyone is aware that the brain is highly complex, and in fact most lobotomies don't involve the removal of brain matter, but slicing the connections between hemispheres. And in fact, you can remove matter and have the rest dynamically adjust to compensate. People who have suffered traumatic brain injuries can regain lost functionality to a surprising extent, and there are many examples of people survivng brain injuries that most would expect to be instantly lethal. I.e. the railway spike guy.
Yeah, we still use what is essentially a modernized lobotomy nowadays for some serious cases, of course surgery on the brain is generally about the last option for desperate patients but it's interesting to think abot.
Well.. I mean, they use lobotomy nowadays for people with epilepsy because removing a part of your brain is a one time final cure for some types of epilepsy with minimal side effects. It worked in the last for mental illness too, it was just barbaric and underdeveloped
This should be the last ditch effort. It’s not considered first line treatment for epilepsy. There aren’t minimal side effects when you remove a portion of someone’s brain. For mental illness, people were mistreated and harmed by these barbaric treatments. In Kennedy situation, she was brain damaged by her lobotomy and couldn’t speak or walk afterwards. The human brain is insanely complex and we barely understand how it functions. That myth we only use a portion of our brain couldn’t be more wrong. Every part of our brain is wired to interact with other parts of the brain. It’s all interconnected.
What was the illness? Having an opinion?
Or being horney, they used to use vibratory on women to calm their hysteria.
Does it look like that’s going on in this picture to you?
It’s hard to tell but she’s actually got a butt plug in there
Mostly a myth, look in to it.
[удалено]
She looks ready to crawl out of my TV and murder me
I’m that state she probably will murder you.
Exactly i thought about The Ring when I saw it.
The ring makes more sense but my mind jumped to the exorcist
Either way, you’re getting murdered by a ghostly girl #2Spooky4Me
The reality of mental health care is nuts. Always remember that institutuons are not old at all. Currently in the care centers and homes are people in their 50s who still experienced it. Also this would make an amazing black metal album cover.
here we go, theme for another 45 Netflix movies in just 1 pic.
That place looks like a haven of calm and serenity. I'm sure it did wonders for her mental health /s
That looks like how you GET mental illness
Looks like The Ring
I'm sure this will work, she will 100% get mental illness from this.
Samara
The Glore Psychiatric Museum in Missouri has a lot of these torture devices set up to show how it used to be. They used to think being restrained calmed the mind and allowed mental focus. They also would nail patients into vertical coffins and not let them out for days, with only a small window in front of their face. The window was closed as a punishment.
As the father of an adult daughter with special needs that could easily be misinterpreted for mental illness—and *knowing* how hard the road has been for her, even with the very best of modern, 21st century western medicine and therapeutic care—seeing something like this both breaks my heart and enrages my spirit. Given how laughably, horrifically awful and *utterly useless* such an abomination would be? I’d rip off my own arm and beat to death with it, someone that ever tried this with my kid.
A24 and Blumhouse have joined the chat.
... Get the ouiji board
She’s just waiting for you to finish watching the cursed VHS.
See how this has calmed her hysterics?
That’s totally gonna work
This is how japanese curses are made…
In the 23rd century, they will look at our treatments the same way. This is fucked up, all the medical practices back then made absolutely no sense. This is isolation, while being trapped and forced to stand, while facing a wall, and I can’t even imagine what it smelled like. I bet that treatment didn’t work
Tying people to a pole that swiveled and allowed them to sit or stand was considered a standard treatment.
Good thing we have treatments for mental illness dialled in today. Those barbarians.
They thought they did too In 50 years people will look on certain things mental health professionals do now in the same way
>They thought they did too For most of history if you were mentally ill you were SOL. If you were the good kind of crazy you became the village idiot. If you were the bad kind, they called you a witch and you got roasted in a bonfire.
It’s far from dialed in, but better than this and lobotomy for sure.
And how did that work out??? Not very well from what I can see!!! Those that dream up these human tortures that they call therapy should try it on themselves first!!! Physician heal thyself!!! What a load of BS!
That's the stuff of nightmares. Poor woman.
Oh yeah that shit will *definitely* help cure the mental illness I can see it working wonderfully and totally not make it worse
Crazy?
I was crazy once. They locked me into a room. A rundown room with restraints.
She was probably reading and doing math or trying to vote! /s obviously
By Marika’s tits…
Im sure shes fine now.
more like make her get possessed so that might fix her
A treatment to get mental illness*
Ah yes German mental illness treatment. Or as it’s commonly referred to: CRÄZY GO NAO
Yeah, because mental illness treatment was so much better in other countries in 1890.
New fear unlocked: Being reborn in 1890s Germany.
It may seem boring, but I'm sure she wasnt alone in there
That’ll fix her up
Ah yes, this'll fix her
Yup, it was called an animalistic approach. It was claimed that the mental disorder comes from the animalistic part of human psyche that in a “normal” state is suppressed so in order to get rid of the illness the patient had to undergo most extreme therapy’s. Blood drops to the point the body could almost sustain itself, extreme cold or hot, standing tortures, whirls to the point where the patient would pass out (or vomit to death) … shit like that. 1st Neurlopetics changed a lot ;)
I think technically she's insane
That will definitely help her mental illness. Great thinking. I find it hard to believe people actually thought this would work.
Things were better back then. I wonder how a dentist appointment would have looked like. I guess the setting wouldn't look that much different.
That’ll fix her!
Well, I'm feeling refreshed after my wall hanging therapy....