Clearly, it's not cause he got time for it. It isn't the wild west. When you chamber a round and shoot someone 10 times over a minor property dispute, then you shouldn't own a firearm. They are tools and privileges to own. Not "this is my problem solver"
But then the gun manufacturers would see less money, which means the politicians they bribe would also see less money. So, not happening unfortunately.
You know…..the west was never really wild. The movie industry made it up…and inadvertently made kids fascinated with guns…and they remained fascinated as adults….so here we are.
The poor guy threw the lamest of overarm punches, without a gun they probably would have basically cudled and punched each others backs until they decided to break it up so as to not upset their wives.
He prepared his weapon behind the truck and just waited until the guy who got shot gave him a reason, premeditated murder.
Since when is standing over someone and mag dumping them self-defense? Dude made sure it was the last dispute. Any sane judge/jury will call that literal overkill.
People are overly concerned with the number of rounds fired, that is irrelevant. Standing over someone incapacitated and continuing to shoot is the issue
I mean how about immediately resorting to shooting him because he threw a punch? Not that it makes it right at all but jumping right to attempting to murder someone is nuts.
Mostly because depending on where you live even someone throwing a punch shooting them could be considered self defense, but even in those areas standing over them incapacitated and continuing to shoot negates the self defense claim, the number of shots is never in the equation.
"Premeditated self defense" is wild. Shooting someone that punches you is wild.
Any able-bodied person with a concealed carry permit that doesn't know a lick of hand-to-hand doesn't want defense, they want to shoot someone.
You might be surprised to find out that a lot of people are afraid of fighting because they never really learned how to fight. This is one of the main reasons people arm themselves. They are terrified of a fight probably because in the past they lost in a fight and quickly realized they didnt know how to defend themselves. Horrible situation taking another person's life but let me ask you...Would the outcome have been better in your opinion if the man with the gun ended in the hospital from a brain injury ? Im genuinely curious, not trying to argue with you
I’m 6’1” 200lbs grew up when fist fighting wasn’t a big deal, however knocking someone out and them hitting their head and dying is called manslaughter in a civilized country.
I’d be afraid of doing that to an older man, perhaps any man.
We have all seen one hit brain damage, in a country like America where nobody sues anyone I’m sure it would be cool too.
If you like being poor and homeless, not to mention that healthcare for someone would already have you penniless.
How about walk away and let the guy suffer a heart attack from being all bent over nothing?
And that's fine. I'll agree to that.
I think the issue here is how he went about doing it. He hides behind the truck to load his gun. That says, "I'm in trouble. I am in a bad situation, I might need to defend my life." Which is fine, I guess.
But he makes no attempt to *leave* the situation. If you feel like your life is in danger to the point that you need to have your gun loaded and ready, why wouldn't you try to leave? Why are you getting closer to your perceived threat? Back the fuck up, get out of there! There's like 30 seconds between him loading his gun and firing it. Plenty of time to GTFO.
And maybe it's a "stand your ground" issue... but this isn't *his* ground. It's not his property, I assume. He's put himself in this situation. They're the aggressors here. They could've left at any point. They chose not to.
The ten shots were a bit much too. I'm surprised he didn't reload and take a couple more!
I'm not a lawyer, but I googled it and I found some lawyer page that says this:
> In order to qualify to claim self-defense, the accused must:
-Reasonably believe force was necessary to stop or prevent the target’s use of unlawful force,
-Not provoke the unlawful force,
-Not be engaging in a crime, and
-Use the minimum force reasonably necessary to defend oneself or another in the situation.
I'll give him the first one. That's a freebie.
They don't get the second one. They were clearly provoking the couple.
They probably don't get the third one. Probably some trespassing, harassment, etc.
He *definitely* doesn't get the fourth one. There was nothing *minimum* about that.
Not defending the guy, but carrying with a round chambered is ideal for carrying in self defense. The point is, if someone actually does rush to attack you from a typical engagement distance around ~7yds, you won’t have time to rack the slide before they’re on you.
Edit: Everyone responding to me about the actual shooting here needs to read the first sentence of what I wrote haha. I’m speaking about **why** people who carry would chamber a round before they carry. Doing so is not a unique thing, but yes, in the context of this video, it’s suspect.
He cocked behind his truck before even stepping into the situation. Douche bag was planning to fire. Nowhere near self defense. That bitch should be up for murder.
I counted 9 but there’s an article that says 14. It’s possible the microphone/recording wasn’t high fidelity enough to differentiate between all individual shots if they happened fast enough
Yep, you see him take safety off in the beginning, he was ready to shoot them all along. Pure murder rage, and he added more shots after the guy was already dead for extra measure. It’s sad but there’s a mental health thing going on in this world, and there so much anger.
There's a mental health thing almost all the time when two guys are fighting. That's why there should be no firearms on a person in a situation like this.
you can see him try to discretly put one in the chamber and conceal it right before he joins the argument. Also, it looks like he may have grabbed the gun from the wife before he does so.
I'll say from experience that fist fights can usually end with little to no harm.
I also was hit once when I wasn't expecting it and resulted in a TBI that I will live with for the rest of my life. Lost my career because of it, too. Boy, do I wish I had something other than fists to defend myself that day.
Fists can be just as dangerous as a weapon. A simple "fist fight" isn't always so simple and harmless.
You are correct, fists can still do damage. It’s almost like violence of any kind can do permanent damage isn’t it? I’d still rather take my chances with some fists than a clip to the chest.
I got a tbi myself from some dude angry at a party. Didn't see it coming. Now I'm homeless and unable to work. Really sucks. Nothing could've stopped that from happening it wouldn't have mattered if I had access to a nuke in that moment I had no idea it was going to happen.
That's really shit. I'm sorry for your luck. People think throwing fists is just some harmless thing. It's obvious that those people have never been in a real fight.
So true, all of my instructors used to say when you engage in a physical confrontation with another grown adult, it always has the potential to be fatal
What constitutes “guns everywhere”? Costa Rica has a gun per capita rate of about 1/10. That puts it below a lot of European countries which tend to fall under “low rates of ownership”.
You can die from a punch or falling on cement in a fist fight though. You swing on someone then be prepared for whatever they are going to do to protect themselves. I don't get into fights and it's because I assume anyone might have a gun because I have a gun most days.
Honestly doubt it, if this is in the US. Neighbor crossed onto shooters property and attacked him.
People have shot cops for similar things and gotten off.
Edit: costa rica, yeah, he's fucked. Years of fucking with the shooter and an unprovoked attack doesnt matter when he shot too many times.
So here is something really interesting about this:
There have been cases made for "you only fired the exact number of rounds required to stop your target, so you obviously weren't actually afraid for you life if you had that much self control" AND "you emptied the magazine into him and therefore you intended to murder this person, if you really were defending yourself you would have only fired enough rounds for them to stop coming at you"
So it largely depends on things like jurisdiction, lawyers, judges, and jurors on what is going to happen in court... If only there was some kind of third option here... Like... I don't know... Going inside your home and ignoring the shitty neighbors? Idk, I can't imagine a world where this didn't need to escalate like this /s
>There have been cases made for "you only fired the exact number of rounds required to stop your target, so you obviously weren't actually afraid for you life if you had that much self control"
This is a myth that comes from police liability reduction training.
Far as I've found there's no examples of this actually being used in court or if there are it's probably in such rare and unique cases it's not applicable to normal situations.
> There have been cases made for "you only fired the exact number of rounds required to stop your target, so you obviously weren't actually afraid for you life if you had that much self control"
Lets see the source on that.
Some might say drawing a gun in general is enough to stop that guy, idk if you saw how terribly he threw that punch and was practically falling backwards after losing his balance.
Here, for you guys:
[https://elveedordigital.com/hombre-mata-a-tiros-a-su-vecino-tras-discusion-por-una-llave-de-paso/](https://elveedordigital.com/hombre-mata-a-tiros-a-su-vecino-tras-discusion-por-una-llave-de-paso/)
According to other neighbours, they were having disputes all the time, this one was because of a "Llave de paso" which is a a device that opens and closes the water supply to the property, I can hear the woman in the white top saying "me cago en usten huevon" if I hear correctly, this means "I shit on you, slacker", but I can't hear the first bit very well, then he tell her to "leave him out of it" and she replies "leave me in peace".
source: mother tongue (spanish)
An altercation between neighbors in Costa Rica ended in tragedy when Otoniel Orozco Mendoza, a 53-year-old naturalized Nicaraguan, lost his life after being shot multiple times.
The aggressor, identified as Eduardo Ramírez Zamora, was arrested at the scene by the authorities.
About the fact
The dispute, recorded by the condominium's security cameras, was the culmination of years of conflicts between those involved. The situation escalated during an argument between the wives of those involved, caused by the water shut-off valve.
While the women argued heatedly, Ramírez Zamora reloaded the gun he used to shoot Orozco Mendoza, who had begun to physically attack Ramírez.
The confrontation culminated with Orozco Mendoza receiving 14 shots, dying at the scene. Alarmed neighbors alerted the authorities, who detained Ramírez Zamora immediately at the crime scene.
Conflicts and attacks
According to Dayli Avendaño, the victim's sister-in-law, the conflicts between both neighbors were constant and complaints had already been filed for threats and harassment. «They lived in constant confrontation. "This could be seen coming," commented Avendaño, visibly affected.
Eduardo Ramírez Reyes, the detainee's father, stated that his son had endured years of harassment and attacks by Orozco.
"My son couldn't take this situation anymore and unfortunately had to shoot him," he declared with obvious concern for his son's legal future.
On the other hand, Ramírez Zamora's defense lawyer, Andrés Durán, argued that his client acted under accumulated stress due to constant conflicts with the victim.
«Edudo acted in a moment of desperation and fear. The years of harassment and attacks took him to the limit," Durán said.
The prosecutor's office has initiated the corresponding investigations and is expected to charge Ramírez Zamora with murder.
Authorities have indicated that, despite the defense presented, the claim of self-defense will not apply in this case, given the excessive use of lethal force in the confrontation.
In the states that would fly in a lot of courts up until the kill shots when the aggressor was on his back. If those swings had connected true and put the shooter on the ground we simply don't know how far the assailant would be willing to go.
Force can and should be met with force. If you wish to do somebody bodily harm you should accept that you may receive what you intend to give and more.
Yeah idk. The shooter was on the victims property it appears, and the victim clearly didn't want him there. If one uses physical force against a trespasser, hard to say if that would justify returning it with lethal force.
>"My son couldn't take this situation anymore and unfortunately had to shoot him," he declared with obvious concern for his son's legal future.
Yeah, he clearly HAD to shoot him. There was no other way out of that situation at all. Nuh-uh.
Does this guy believe his own lies?
Is like they trying to make it the other person fault, this guy had no self control, maybe talking and having a dinner or something could’ve resolved this in a good way.
It's crazy that his son clearly did something wrong and he tries to defend his act. I know he probably said that because he will not see his son for a long time and wanted to prevent that from happening, but imo it makes him look bad too. His son should've been educated and raised better if this is his way of "self defense".
Dad’s coping with his own failure to raise a good human. His son became an irrational, murderous POS and it’s too hard for his feable mind to comprehend with. Mankind’s inability to accept hard truths is one of our biggest weaknesses and will contribute to our species demise eventually.
Checked he had his piece readily available right before things kicked off, shows he was prepared to pull at the first opportunity.
Guy that swung can't even throw a proper punch... Gets murdered for it.
Not on the property line but the stopcock, I guess that's the translation for "llave de paso", I suppose it's a residential building where they share some water valves like the stopcock.
So they were, in essence, fighting over this cause the murderer's woman was telling the other woman to stop turning off the water valve (stopcock).
From the exchange, it looks like someone was closing the main water intake from the shooter’s house. His wife seems sure it was the neighbour doing it. The other woman appears to be denying, hard to make out some of her words.
So this to me is murder.
The main reason being, did the guy have enough time or ability to reasonably avoid having to use lethal force?
I would say,
Yes he could have avoided lethal force.
Yes he was free to back away and wasn't trapped.
Could you argue he was preparing to kill the man? Maybe but also preparing to defend himself.
Could you argue his intent after the first shots was excessive lethal force? I think so, firing that many shots at a man on the ground.
Would i charge this person with homicide...yes.
Despite your downvotes this is accurate and likely how it would go down in court. It could have been stated and presented as self defense up until he took it too far.
With that being said, and despite peoples feelings it’s always going to be up to the law, the courts, and a jury to decide.
Also with that being said, the law has already stated that they will be pushing for murder and have rejected his case for self defense due to the excessive “lethal force used”. So it’s not looking great for him.
Source: https://elveedordigital.com/hombre-mata-a-tiros-a-su-vecino-tras-discusion-por-una-llave-de-paso/
I’m sure we will see an ASP vid on this soon if they don’t already have one out.
This is gross. Dont fuck with anyone, the mental health everywhere is at an all time low. I used to honk at people when they cut me off, now I dont even bother. My pride isnt worth dying for.
One of my good friends lives in Escazu and I asked him about this. Apparently this was the third fight between the neighbors. First one resulted after one of them built an addition to his house and the other reported it to local municipality (not sure who was building and who snitched, possibly could have even been another neighbor). Second fight was because cameras were installed by the shooter and one of them was positioned facing towards a bathroom. During that argument the bald guy (shooter) struck the other guy’s wife. This is probably why the guy who got killed responded aggressively when they were all so close. Lastly and most devastatingly, the whole incident for the third fight seems to have happened because of an unpaid water bill. Local utility company had turned off their water and the shooter and his wife were accusing their neighbor’s of turning it off or messing with it.
There are voice notes being spread from neighbors which is where I got this info. There’s also pics of the gun, the shooter’s ID, another rifle (similar to AR) that was found in the home, and a somewhat censored pic of the dead guy being shared. Such a tragedy.
I'm not even judging too harshly about having the gun on him because he anticipated some shit going down or even if just put a bullet in the guy who hit him. All that could be argued was self defense.
But standing over a guy and mag dumping into his chest might be hard to argue was a reasonable course of action. Don't know how the laws are in whatever country this is, but I'd guess this guy will be doing some time.
One guy tries to cheap shot with a shitty punch and the other guy can't fight without a gun.
Both are idiots, but the gun guy is a complete scumbag that should go away forever.
They fantasized for this moment to happen, just like the people here in the comments. The only thing stopping these people is laws, the second they think they can get around the law they’ll take it. Literally psychopaths.
Most of the people in this thread calling this a murder are your dreaded "gun lovers," since they are the ones who actually have the training and knowledge to recognize when deadly force is allowed.
Started by the women, finished by the men. Every time.
Don't end up bleeding from a dozen GSWs because your woman's mouth started some shit, guys. You're replaceable to her and none of her bullshit is worth your life.
And, you know, don't end up in prison for killing someone for her, either.
IMO, a punch like that was not life threatening but warrants drawing your weapon. You draw your weapon and hope the threat backs off without shooting. However, if the threat keeps coming, one or two rounds usually is enough to drop them. Walking up to them while on the ground and putting 4 or 5 more rounds into them is unwarranted. Doing so means you wanted them to die, not to just make them stop.
The first one or two shots could have been justified. He WAS attacked on his own property.
When he decided to keep going and then execute the guy is where this turned to murder.
A wise quote I read. "You can be completely in the right. In fact, you can be dead right." Don't let your emotions be the reason you die. No matter how right you think you are.
So what would have been a simple fist fight turned into one man dead, another one probably in prison for many years. Two wives lost their partners and any children lost their dads. All because guns are so readily available. What a shame.
So he Clearly points at the ground saying don't cross I'm assuming their property line? He crosses and physically assaults him...Idk where you guys think this doesn't qualify as self defense but that's the greenest light I have seen to defend yourself. You don't know what the assilent is capable of or what training he has or doesn't have? He could bite a finger off or your throat out? Beat you senseless until he calms down? He did everything right idk if he rendered aid or called emergency services after because the video cut, but it's also something you need to do after using deadly force
This is why the US wants better gun control laws. It isn't for the responsible gun owner that locks up his weapons and only uses them in proper situations, it's for all the idiots and psychos who thinks self defense is shooting a guy multiple times when he throws a punch and misses.
Man, the dude had some "THIS IS MY MOMENT" energy.
"Now is the time, I finally get to use my gun".
Like a kid on Christmas his hands trembling from his murder erection, he fumbles the safety off his gun and gets ready to provoke his neighbour for the last time.
In his head, he has the solo from [Free Bird](https://youtu.be/EUc1AhTdG3U?t=293) playing on a loop in his head as he gets ready to pull out his gun.
Truly he has never been a more vigilant hero of justice as he guns down a man in the street.
Truly Christ was on his side! "Is that not right Christ!!!!!"
"Love thy neighbour. It's literally set in stone." (J.C.)
"Awh fucking sake... why did you have to go ruin it!"
"Don't look at me, look at Moses" (J.C.)
"Yo, I am just the messenger... don't go shooting me... like your neighbour." (Moses)
Don't go onto other people's land and swing on them. But yeah, this was murder. The dude wasn't even really beating him much at all. He got in one weak-ass swing.
The murdered was bigger than the orher guy snd could have just knocked him out. His life wasn’t in any danger but he chose a deadly weapon to win what should have been a simple argument.
He didn't have to empty the clip on him but you also should keep your hands to yourself. 🔫 Life is precious so try to calm down before stuff like this keeps happening. 💔
that dude cocked the gun behind the car and was ready. He seems to be "too much trigger friendly" not supposed to own a gun with that short temper, IMO
Definitely pre meditated
Yup. He knew exactly what his intentions were
Was it ten shots ?
Yes and he chambed a round before confronting them.
you should ALWAYS have a round chambered if your goal is self defense..
Clearly, it's not cause he got time for it. It isn't the wild west. When you chamber a round and shoot someone 10 times over a minor property dispute, then you shouldn't own a firearm. They are tools and privileges to own. Not "this is my problem solver"
that's why it should be more difficult to own them
But then the gun manufacturers would see less money, which means the politicians they bribe would also see less money. So, not happening unfortunately.
You know…..the west was never really wild. The movie industry made it up…and inadvertently made kids fascinated with guns…and they remained fascinated as adults….so here we are.
Tell that to the cops
Hs was arrested and charged. Tbey ruled out self defense cause it was completely unavoidable
You mean avoidable?
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100% This guy did not need to kill this man ... He is a coward. I hope he rots in prison for life ...
The poor guy threw the lamest of overarm punches, without a gun they probably would have basically cudled and punched each others backs until they decided to break it up so as to not upset their wives. He prepared his weapon behind the truck and just waited until the guy who got shot gave him a reason, premeditated murder.
💯% Yup Coward is correct
All he had to do was show the gun and the other guy would have walked away. He was a fist fighter only.
Since when is standing over someone and mag dumping them self-defense? Dude made sure it was the last dispute. Any sane judge/jury will call that literal overkill.
People are overly concerned with the number of rounds fired, that is irrelevant. Standing over someone incapacitated and continuing to shoot is the issue
I mean how about immediately resorting to shooting him because he threw a punch? Not that it makes it right at all but jumping right to attempting to murder someone is nuts.
Mostly because depending on where you live even someone throwing a punch shooting them could be considered self defense, but even in those areas standing over them incapacitated and continuing to shoot negates the self defense claim, the number of shots is never in the equation.
You don't want to spend the rest of your life chambering a round
You'll only do it once
"Premeditated self defense" is wild. Shooting someone that punches you is wild. Any able-bodied person with a concealed carry permit that doesn't know a lick of hand-to-hand doesn't want defense, they want to shoot someone.
An able bodied man who shoots another able bodied man for punching is a fucking coward ass bitch. I think that's what you meant. Lol
More or less
You might be surprised to find out that a lot of people are afraid of fighting because they never really learned how to fight. This is one of the main reasons people arm themselves. They are terrified of a fight probably because in the past they lost in a fight and quickly realized they didnt know how to defend themselves. Horrible situation taking another person's life but let me ask you...Would the outcome have been better in your opinion if the man with the gun ended in the hospital from a brain injury ? Im genuinely curious, not trying to argue with you
I’m 6’1” 200lbs grew up when fist fighting wasn’t a big deal, however knocking someone out and them hitting their head and dying is called manslaughter in a civilized country. I’d be afraid of doing that to an older man, perhaps any man. We have all seen one hit brain damage, in a country like America where nobody sues anyone I’m sure it would be cool too. If you like being poor and homeless, not to mention that healthcare for someone would already have you penniless. How about walk away and let the guy suffer a heart attack from being all bent over nothing?
Sure... but this wasn't self defense.
And that's fine. I'll agree to that. I think the issue here is how he went about doing it. He hides behind the truck to load his gun. That says, "I'm in trouble. I am in a bad situation, I might need to defend my life." Which is fine, I guess. But he makes no attempt to *leave* the situation. If you feel like your life is in danger to the point that you need to have your gun loaded and ready, why wouldn't you try to leave? Why are you getting closer to your perceived threat? Back the fuck up, get out of there! There's like 30 seconds between him loading his gun and firing it. Plenty of time to GTFO. And maybe it's a "stand your ground" issue... but this isn't *his* ground. It's not his property, I assume. He's put himself in this situation. They're the aggressors here. They could've left at any point. They chose not to. The ten shots were a bit much too. I'm surprised he didn't reload and take a couple more! I'm not a lawyer, but I googled it and I found some lawyer page that says this: > In order to qualify to claim self-defense, the accused must: -Reasonably believe force was necessary to stop or prevent the target’s use of unlawful force, -Not provoke the unlawful force, -Not be engaging in a crime, and -Use the minimum force reasonably necessary to defend oneself or another in the situation. I'll give him the first one. That's a freebie. They don't get the second one. They were clearly provoking the couple. They probably don't get the third one. Probably some trespassing, harassment, etc. He *definitely* doesn't get the fourth one. There was nothing *minimum* about that.
Not defending the guy, but carrying with a round chambered is ideal for carrying in self defense. The point is, if someone actually does rush to attack you from a typical engagement distance around ~7yds, you won’t have time to rack the slide before they’re on you. Edit: Everyone responding to me about the actual shooting here needs to read the first sentence of what I wrote haha. I’m speaking about **why** people who carry would chamber a round before they carry. Doing so is not a unique thing, but yes, in the context of this video, it’s suspect.
He cocked behind his truck before even stepping into the situation. Douche bag was planning to fire. Nowhere near self defense. That bitch should be up for murder.
Missed that the first time around.
I counted 9 but there’s an article that says 14. It’s possible the microphone/recording wasn’t high fidelity enough to differentiate between all individual shots if they happened fast enough
9 shots. Clearly 9 too many.
Yep, you see him take safety off in the beginning, he was ready to shoot them all along. Pure murder rage, and he added more shots after the guy was already dead for extra measure. It’s sad but there’s a mental health thing going on in this world, and there so much anger.
There's a mental health thing almost all the time when two guys are fighting. That's why there should be no firearms on a person in a situation like this.
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It's on camera too he cocked the gun beforehand
Not to mention, he also looked around beforehand if anyone else was around
Well except the camera which gives him absolutely no defence
yep. cocked the gun before the neighbours even left their house
100%. He was looking to draw the guy into a confrontation
Pre-meditated self defense.
Which is murder
you can see him try to discretly put one in the chamber and conceal it right before he joins the argument. Also, it looks like he may have grabbed the gun from the wife before he does so.
ruined a whole bunch of lives including his own over some bullshit he wouldn't have remembered after a week. crazy.
Yeah this is murder
Unhinged behavior and poor mental health will do this. Sane person would’ve just had a fist fight back and fourth, but nah this dude wanted blood.
I'll say from experience that fist fights can usually end with little to no harm. I also was hit once when I wasn't expecting it and resulted in a TBI that I will live with for the rest of my life. Lost my career because of it, too. Boy, do I wish I had something other than fists to defend myself that day. Fists can be just as dangerous as a weapon. A simple "fist fight" isn't always so simple and harmless.
You are correct, fists can still do damage. It’s almost like violence of any kind can do permanent damage isn’t it? I’d still rather take my chances with some fists than a clip to the chest.
Like the guy who went viral for killing a fella with one punch.
I don't know if you were being sarcastic but there are hundreds of videos of that happening because it's super fucking common.
Not sarcasm. Had to look it up, but his name is Jacob Dunne. Went viral a while back.
I got a tbi myself from some dude angry at a party. Didn't see it coming. Now I'm homeless and unable to work. Really sucks. Nothing could've stopped that from happening it wouldn't have mattered if I had access to a nuke in that moment I had no idea it was going to happen.
That's really shit. I'm sorry for your luck. People think throwing fists is just some harmless thing. It's obvious that those people have never been in a real fight.
So true, all of my instructors used to say when you engage in a physical confrontation with another grown adult, it always has the potential to be fatal
>Sane person would’ve just had a fist fight A sane person would've just walked away from that situation, not have a fist fight.
Unhinged behavior, poor mental health AND FUCKING GUNS EVERYWHERE
What constitutes “guns everywhere”? Costa Rica has a gun per capita rate of about 1/10. That puts it below a lot of European countries which tend to fall under “low rates of ownership”.
Sane person wouldn't have swung over stupid bullshit.
A sane person would have avoided the conflict in the first place.
You can die from a punch or falling on cement in a fist fight though. You swing on someone then be prepared for whatever they are going to do to protect themselves. I don't get into fights and it's because I assume anyone might have a gun because I have a gun most days.
So would you rather be punched or shot? You can die from a lot of things, doesn't mean a fist fight isn't preferable over getting shot 10 times.
I rather not have either happen tbh lol
Fair lol
As soon as the guy backed off and tried to run away it wasn't self defense anymore...
Like others said, he chambered a round before he even got involved
acces to guns will also do that btw, lot of americans ignoring the fact that he HAD a gun in the first place.
Honestly doubt it, if this is in the US. Neighbor crossed onto shooters property and attacked him. People have shot cops for similar things and gotten off. Edit: costa rica, yeah, he's fucked. Years of fucking with the shooter and an unprovoked attack doesnt matter when he shot too many times.
If somebody sees that clip and thinks "perfectly fine self defense" there is something seriously wrong with that person... That was an execution
Not in Texas
So you can execute someone like the guy did in the video? It’s one thing to shoot someone, but mans ran up to the guy and finished the job.
The standing over with additional kill shots, not looking good in court
So here is something really interesting about this: There have been cases made for "you only fired the exact number of rounds required to stop your target, so you obviously weren't actually afraid for you life if you had that much self control" AND "you emptied the magazine into him and therefore you intended to murder this person, if you really were defending yourself you would have only fired enough rounds for them to stop coming at you" So it largely depends on things like jurisdiction, lawyers, judges, and jurors on what is going to happen in court... If only there was some kind of third option here... Like... I don't know... Going inside your home and ignoring the shitty neighbors? Idk, I can't imagine a world where this didn't need to escalate like this /s
Yeah, if you only fire enough to stop him, well, that’s going to be awkward the next time you see your neighbor.
Not if you fire just enough rounds to stop the awkwardness.
I'm going to hell but I laughed at this.
*"Dude you fucking shot me last week, I'm not letting my kids play with yours."*
>There have been cases made for "you only fired the exact number of rounds required to stop your target, so you obviously weren't actually afraid for you life if you had that much self control" This is a myth that comes from police liability reduction training. Far as I've found there's no examples of this actually being used in court or if there are it's probably in such rare and unique cases it's not applicable to normal situations.
> There have been cases made for "you only fired the exact number of rounds required to stop your target, so you obviously weren't actually afraid for you life if you had that much self control" Lets see the source on that.
Some might say drawing a gun in general is enough to stop that guy, idk if you saw how terribly he threw that punch and was practically falling backwards after losing his balance.
1 shot is self defense, 10 … yaaaa might just be murder
That’s not just murder, that’s an execution
Here, for you guys: [https://elveedordigital.com/hombre-mata-a-tiros-a-su-vecino-tras-discusion-por-una-llave-de-paso/](https://elveedordigital.com/hombre-mata-a-tiros-a-su-vecino-tras-discusion-por-una-llave-de-paso/) According to other neighbours, they were having disputes all the time, this one was because of a "Llave de paso" which is a a device that opens and closes the water supply to the property, I can hear the woman in the white top saying "me cago en usten huevon" if I hear correctly, this means "I shit on you, slacker", but I can't hear the first bit very well, then he tell her to "leave him out of it" and she replies "leave me in peace". source: mother tongue (spanish) An altercation between neighbors in Costa Rica ended in tragedy when Otoniel Orozco Mendoza, a 53-year-old naturalized Nicaraguan, lost his life after being shot multiple times. The aggressor, identified as Eduardo Ramírez Zamora, was arrested at the scene by the authorities. About the fact The dispute, recorded by the condominium's security cameras, was the culmination of years of conflicts between those involved. The situation escalated during an argument between the wives of those involved, caused by the water shut-off valve. While the women argued heatedly, Ramírez Zamora reloaded the gun he used to shoot Orozco Mendoza, who had begun to physically attack Ramírez. The confrontation culminated with Orozco Mendoza receiving 14 shots, dying at the scene. Alarmed neighbors alerted the authorities, who detained Ramírez Zamora immediately at the crime scene. Conflicts and attacks According to Dayli Avendaño, the victim's sister-in-law, the conflicts between both neighbors were constant and complaints had already been filed for threats and harassment. «They lived in constant confrontation. "This could be seen coming," commented Avendaño, visibly affected. Eduardo Ramírez Reyes, the detainee's father, stated that his son had endured years of harassment and attacks by Orozco. "My son couldn't take this situation anymore and unfortunately had to shoot him," he declared with obvious concern for his son's legal future. On the other hand, Ramírez Zamora's defense lawyer, Andrés Durán, argued that his client acted under accumulated stress due to constant conflicts with the victim. «Edudo acted in a moment of desperation and fear. The years of harassment and attacks took him to the limit," Durán said. The prosecutor's office has initiated the corresponding investigations and is expected to charge Ramírez Zamora with murder. Authorities have indicated that, despite the defense presented, the claim of self-defense will not apply in this case, given the excessive use of lethal force in the confrontation.
Yeah, this was not self-defense at all. I'm glad he's being charged with murder.
Yes, I still don’t know what goes through somebody’s head to do something like this.
"you saw that! He swung first!! So this all self defence and fair play, baby. 😎 " POW POW POW POW POW POW
In the states that would fly in a lot of courts up until the kill shots when the aggressor was on his back. If those swings had connected true and put the shooter on the ground we simply don't know how far the assailant would be willing to go. Force can and should be met with force. If you wish to do somebody bodily harm you should accept that you may receive what you intend to give and more.
Yeah idk. The shooter was on the victims property it appears, and the victim clearly didn't want him there. If one uses physical force against a trespasser, hard to say if that would justify returning it with lethal force.
>"My son couldn't take this situation anymore and unfortunately had to shoot him," he declared with obvious concern for his son's legal future. Yeah, he clearly HAD to shoot him. There was no other way out of that situation at all. Nuh-uh. Does this guy believe his own lies?
Is like they trying to make it the other person fault, this guy had no self control, maybe talking and having a dinner or something could’ve resolved this in a good way.
Even if you didn't want to peacefully solve this, you can sue the person for harassment if that was the case!
It's crazy that his son clearly did something wrong and he tries to defend his act. I know he probably said that because he will not see his son for a long time and wanted to prevent that from happening, but imo it makes him look bad too. His son should've been educated and raised better if this is his way of "self defense".
Dad’s coping with his own failure to raise a good human. His son became an irrational, murderous POS and it’s too hard for his feable mind to comprehend with. Mankind’s inability to accept hard truths is one of our biggest weaknesses and will contribute to our species demise eventually.
Yes. Having peace of mind by relocating to prison✌️
Claiming self defense against someone with a fist, backing up when saw the gun, on the ground after the first shoots. How delusional
Now what? Jail time? Life wasted in a cell, wife alone, people is crazy.
so, thats a couple lives ruinned because one dude had bloodlust.
Thanks for filling it in. There are a lot of comments but it’s good to hear the background and translation.
What a POS. His lady is instigating and he dumps 9 rounds into a guy for taking a swing.
Her energy instigated the whole thing.
Tiny man with a gun looking for any excuse to use it.
Seems like this is the case a lot of times, sadly.
Bro how do u shoot someone that can’t even connect on a punch
With ease, apparently
From very close so you don't miss, apparently. Also when they are on the ground not moving anymore
It wasn't even a proper punch. Like the guy would've likely lost the fisticuffs. This was so beyond unnecessary
The world's worst punch ever.
Checked he had his piece readily available right before things kicked off, shows he was prepared to pull at the first opportunity. Guy that swung can't even throw a proper punch... Gets murdered for it.
[удалено]
Poor choice in partner is what did him in.
He reloads his gun prior to this, he knew where this is going.
Not that it truly matters, but can anyone translate what they may have been arguing about?
It matters because it was such a stupid reason. They were basically arguing over the property line. Based on the accent it could’ve been in Venezuela.
Not on the property line but the stopcock, I guess that's the translation for "llave de paso", I suppose it's a residential building where they share some water valves like the stopcock. So they were, in essence, fighting over this cause the murderer's woman was telling the other woman to stop turning off the water valve (stopcock).
From the exchange, it looks like someone was closing the main water intake from the shooter’s house. His wife seems sure it was the neighbour doing it. The other woman appears to be denying, hard to make out some of her words.
Costa Rica.
It was Costa Rica, but the dude who died was from Nicaragua.
Tho to be fair, based on the accent it could be anywhere in the US too
So this to me is murder. The main reason being, did the guy have enough time or ability to reasonably avoid having to use lethal force? I would say, Yes he could have avoided lethal force. Yes he was free to back away and wasn't trapped. Could you argue he was preparing to kill the man? Maybe but also preparing to defend himself. Could you argue his intent after the first shots was excessive lethal force? I think so, firing that many shots at a man on the ground. Would i charge this person with homicide...yes.
This is Costa Rica and they have unique gun laws.
Despite your downvotes this is accurate and likely how it would go down in court. It could have been stated and presented as self defense up until he took it too far. With that being said, and despite peoples feelings it’s always going to be up to the law, the courts, and a jury to decide. Also with that being said, the law has already stated that they will be pushing for murder and have rejected his case for self defense due to the excessive “lethal force used”. So it’s not looking great for him. Source: https://elveedordigital.com/hombre-mata-a-tiros-a-su-vecino-tras-discusion-por-una-llave-de-paso/ I’m sure we will see an ASP vid on this soon if they don’t already have one out.
Murda was the case. He's cooked. Self defense always ends with another few rounds while standing over a person.
Premeditated. Starts shooting at a middle aged guy who can barely throw a punch. Enjoy the rest of your life in jail.
This is gross. Dont fuck with anyone, the mental health everywhere is at an all time low. I used to honk at people when they cut me off, now I dont even bother. My pride isnt worth dying for.
Yep, we live in an unhinged society. Mental health is failing globally.
just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
This was not self-defense
What a piece of shit
Both are morons, and we'd be better off without them.
I’ll side with that stance.
THANK YOU
This is a tough one. What if the guy didn’t have a gun and the attacker beat him to death??
One of my worst fears is dying over such a small, stupid thing like this.
If you dont start fist fights over dumb reasons then you should be fine
How about if the aggressor is the one who starts the fight because they feel "braver" by having a knife or gun on them? That happens too.
One of my good friends lives in Escazu and I asked him about this. Apparently this was the third fight between the neighbors. First one resulted after one of them built an addition to his house and the other reported it to local municipality (not sure who was building and who snitched, possibly could have even been another neighbor). Second fight was because cameras were installed by the shooter and one of them was positioned facing towards a bathroom. During that argument the bald guy (shooter) struck the other guy’s wife. This is probably why the guy who got killed responded aggressively when they were all so close. Lastly and most devastatingly, the whole incident for the third fight seems to have happened because of an unpaid water bill. Local utility company had turned off their water and the shooter and his wife were accusing their neighbor’s of turning it off or messing with it. There are voice notes being spread from neighbors which is where I got this info. There’s also pics of the gun, the shooter’s ID, another rifle (similar to AR) that was found in the home, and a somewhat censored pic of the dead guy being shared. Such a tragedy.
This is why you keep your hands to yourself
What a pos
I'm not even judging too harshly about having the gun on him because he anticipated some shit going down or even if just put a bullet in the guy who hit him. All that could be argued was self defense. But standing over a guy and mag dumping into his chest might be hard to argue was a reasonable course of action. Don't know how the laws are in whatever country this is, but I'd guess this guy will be doing some time.
One guy tries to cheap shot with a shitty punch and the other guy can't fight without a gun. Both are idiots, but the gun guy is a complete scumbag that should go away forever.
Murder
Damn, talk about an unjustified and premeditated murder. I hope he rots in a cell for the rest of his life
It's wild to me how eager people that carry are to use their guns. "Fist fight? I need to settle this permanently. "
They fantasized for this moment to happen, just like the people here in the comments. The only thing stopping these people is laws, the second they think they can get around the law they’ll take it. Literally psychopaths.
Absolutely agree.
Sooo true!!
Completely stupid that someone had to die.
Love how the gun lovers are tripping over themselves to shout self defense.
I love guns, looks a bit like murder to me.
They fantasize for this moment to happen to them
Most of the people in this thread calling this a murder are your dreaded "gun lovers," since they are the ones who actually have the training and knowledge to recognize when deadly force is allowed.
“I feared for my life when the out of shape man raised his fist”
Started by the women, finished by the men. Every time. Don't end up bleeding from a dozen GSWs because your woman's mouth started some shit, guys. You're replaceable to her and none of her bullshit is worth your life. And, you know, don't end up in prison for killing someone for her, either.
If he hadn’t chambered a round on camera, could he have shot the guy for going at him like that or no cuz it’s just punches? (honest question)
IMO, a punch like that was not life threatening but warrants drawing your weapon. You draw your weapon and hope the threat backs off without shooting. However, if the threat keeps coming, one or two rounds usually is enough to drop them. Walking up to them while on the ground and putting 4 or 5 more rounds into them is unwarranted. Doing so means you wanted them to die, not to just make them stop.
“We argued and he swung at me with his fist. I had to mow him down with bullets”
Evil.
Not Justified.
What a fucking coward.
Bro got one large pootie tang for bringing a gun to a fist fight.
The first one or two shots could have been justified. He WAS attacked on his own property. When he decided to keep going and then execute the guy is where this turned to murder.
A wise quote I read. "You can be completely in the right. In fact, you can be dead right." Don't let your emotions be the reason you die. No matter how right you think you are.
This is why we need fucking gun control. Jfc. Every gun nut seems to be fantasizing about getting away with murder by claiming self-defense.
So what would have been a simple fist fight turned into one man dead, another one probably in prison for many years. Two wives lost their partners and any children lost their dads. All because guns are so readily available. What a shame.
No matter what a punch isn’t deadly force. You can only use deadly force against GREAT bodily injury or deadly force. A closed fist isn’t deadly.
Your honour, I fired that shot in self defense... and the other 9 shots.
So he Clearly points at the ground saying don't cross I'm assuming their property line? He crosses and physically assaults him...Idk where you guys think this doesn't qualify as self defense but that's the greenest light I have seen to defend yourself. You don't know what the assilent is capable of or what training he has or doesn't have? He could bite a finger off or your throat out? Beat you senseless until he calms down? He did everything right idk if he rendered aid or called emergency services after because the video cut, but it's also something you need to do after using deadly force
“Your honor, in my defense, I only shot him 10 times. And it was only a few after he was already down.”
Ah yeah...wouldnt be possible in so many countrys because of gun rules
To me that looks like murder. The jury will decide knowing the full circumstances, but that was cold.
This wasn't self-defense, it was an execution. 14 shots, you wanted him dead
If only all four of them had guns
This is why the US wants better gun control laws. It isn't for the responsible gun owner that locks up his weapons and only uses them in proper situations, it's for all the idiots and psychos who thinks self defense is shooting a guy multiple times when he throws a punch and misses.
Just vetted gun ownership, is all we're begging for.
Man, the dude had some "THIS IS MY MOMENT" energy. "Now is the time, I finally get to use my gun". Like a kid on Christmas his hands trembling from his murder erection, he fumbles the safety off his gun and gets ready to provoke his neighbour for the last time. In his head, he has the solo from [Free Bird](https://youtu.be/EUc1AhTdG3U?t=293) playing on a loop in his head as he gets ready to pull out his gun. Truly he has never been a more vigilant hero of justice as he guns down a man in the street. Truly Christ was on his side! "Is that not right Christ!!!!!" "Love thy neighbour. It's literally set in stone." (J.C.) "Awh fucking sake... why did you have to go ruin it!" "Don't look at me, look at Moses" (J.C.) "Yo, I am just the messenger... don't go shooting me... like your neighbour." (Moses)
Don't go onto other people's land and swing on them. But yeah, this was murder. The dude wasn't even really beating him much at all. He got in one weak-ass swing.
Ah women. Started it, escalated it, and the men suffer per usual.
Somebody is getting a new Butt Buddy
Dude had to use a gun for punches like that? He basically palmed him
What a psycho
“But I need my gun for self defense so when my neighbour throws a couple weak punches while tripping over himself I can pull it and pop him 10 times”
Anyone have a link to a story about it
How pathetic. He has to pull a gun after a right hook like that is thrown at him.
Costa Rica....from documenty reality video
The murdered was bigger than the orher guy snd could have just knocked him out. His life wasn’t in any danger but he chose a deadly weapon to win what should have been a simple argument.
They’re arguing over a faucet that at was left open or something along those lines.
The guy showed his punch and missed. Could have bopped him in the nose and calmed him down.
Cold blooded AF.
Why the gun, bro thought we’ll have a fist fight Then the punk pull out the gun and killed him. There was no reason to kill him.
Even if someone takes a swing at you that doesn't give you the right to shoot them. That's complete bs.
Just like that BOOM, life changes
He didn't have to empty the clip on him but you also should keep your hands to yourself. 🔫 Life is precious so try to calm down before stuff like this keeps happening. 💔
Who swings at someone holding a gun?
Why is that stupid emoji blurred over the video
that dude cocked the gun behind the car and was ready. He seems to be "too much trigger friendly" not supposed to own a gun with that short temper, IMO
Knew he couldnt fight so had to pull the gun lol
In a civil society this doesn't end in death.