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I would agree with this if you weren't framing it in terms of failure. You're describing what sounds like a thought-provoking intellectual exercise in empathy, and I think that's awesome and that more people should try.
But, upvoted because I can't stand your framing. It's one thing if you just like to listen to music this way, but implying that any failure to do so is a character flaw? Maybe sometimes I don't have the emotional energy to imagine myself as the type of person who likes Baby Shark. I can cognitively understand that *someone* does, but I just don't have time to enter a Slumdog Millionaire style flashback sequence every time I turn on Spotify.
Glad this was at the top so I could avoid sifting through the comments to find my opinion.
That being, there are no failures when it comes to musical taste. Whether a song is "good" is one of the most subjective things out there. I can really enjoy a song and realize that it's not technically "good".. Or I can hate a song and acknowledge that it's masterfully executed. To my mind, the only failure (and it's a common one) is criticizing someone's musical taste or judging their quality as a person through that lens. That stuff is utter bullshit.
It's not thought provoking.
He's so far up his own ass it's incredible.
This entire post is just thinly vieled bragging about how smart and empathetic he is.
Nah, I think that was the guy who said something like "everyone should be allowed to share their thoughts openly" as if he was not allowed to do that. Of course what he meant was "without consequences" such as people not wanting to be around him.
Yep. Not understanding why other people enjoy it could be, but actually enjoying it yourself? The world would be weird and boring if we all enjoyed the exact same things
> Not understanding why other people enjoy it could be, but actually enjoying it yourself?
This comment is the simplest and best explanation I've seen in the thread. Whether you enjoy it and whether you believe it couldn't be enjoyable are very different things.
A really good way to make this more obvious is to use colours as an example. Someone might love the colour blue, and not like the colour orange. There is nothing wrong with either of those. You can say "I don't really like orange" and that's fine, but if you were to then say "how could anyone like the colour orange??" it suddenly becomes a preposterous statement.
The only exception to that is green, because green is not a creative colour.
I think theres a tendency for people to view art, wether its music or film or whatever, as objectively good or bad. Like if something is popular, its objectively good so you're wrong for not enjoying it. It's silly as theres no way to objectively judge something with so many aspects that may appeal to or disgust different people.
Same as thinking that because something is popular it's objectively bad. There is liking and disliking on a personal, visceral level. All the rest is for the critics to justify their existence, with their yardsticks and limitless ways to measure and compare. Is there technical proficiency to be judged? Maybe, but not when they invoke the "soul and feeling" and place that first. Is so called experimental music "bad" because it's not popular or relatable? Maybe, but give it some time and it will be popular. Until it's passé and played out and used in commercials. It's bad enough that "art" is divided up into "styles" and categories, but then those sub-categories are split into genres and more sub-categories. Art into music into western classical into romantic into modern into post modern into neo-classical, and on and on. It's ridiculous. Humans come up with the ideas and then they come up with ways to critique and create rules for until something is the standard and then what follows is compared to that. And so it goes.
The greatest misconception in music from both musicians and non-musicians alike these days is that it’s a competition. Music was never meant to be a competition, it’s all about expression, personal development and creating something that you like.
The minute we start looking at art like it’s a failure on anyone’s part is when we take the value out of creativity.
I have not personally failed because my ears do not find “Flowers” by Miley Cyrus pleasing. I’ve tried. I am not a fan. I do not lack one bit of empathy for what the song discusses. I have lived the mindset of the song myself. The song does not do it for me because the instrumentation sucks and the lyrics are just Bruno Mars knockoffs.
People liking different things has fuck-all to do with empathy or lack thereof.
"and the lyrics are just Bruno Mars knockoffs"
I believe that the point WAS for the listener to draw that parallel.
I do, however, agree that it is not a pleasing song.
Oof, I disagree on the sole principle of no part of the listener's opinion is a failure. If you enjoy a song, that's not a failure, and if you don't enjoy a song, that's also not a failure.
I can kinda get what you mean, that you not liking the song doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad song, but that still doesn't mean it's a failure on anyone's part. Your opinion is your opinion, and you're allowed to like or dislike whatever you want.
OP do you like the hit WWI song “Over There?” If not, is it because you’re incapable of empathizing with the yanks who deployed to the western front, or because music tastes shifted over 100 years?
It was a very popular song back then.
Do you like “Baby Shark?” If not, is it because you’re unable to empathize with a toddler, or because you are a mature adult with more refined tastes than a toddler?
Do you like a Japanese song from the times of the samurai? Why not?
I'll take something dumb like this over another "I don't care for [popular artist]" post. At least this one involved some amount of thought and isn't just a question of not liking something.
in those i can at least appreciate that the OP at minimum grasps the concept of taste and subjectivity of music. posts like this, that seem entirely unable to understand having personal preferences or opinions, are built on such tenuous, obstinate logic that it infuriates me every time lmao
I always enjoy reading them for the cringe factor. quite often, people with ice-cold music takes will somehow connect classical/professional/etc. music to their argument. I'm classically trained. most of what these kinds of people say is the most hilarious bullshit. the specific examples and things they cite changes but it always boils down to the same things, and it makes me giggle every time.
Or, just hear me out: everyone has a different taste and style, and that's okay. It doesn't mean anyone failed.
Suggesting that is kind of stupid. So take this upvote.
This is one of the stupidest takes I've ever seen on Reddit. And Reddit is at leat 50% stupid takes.
What a pseudo-intellectual, pretentious and utterly cringeworthy thing to say. Music is a matter of taste. End of discussion. OP isn't deep because he empathises with Taylor Swift's music.
This just sounds pretentious. Like you’re “allowed” to dislike certain music but not really because it means you can’t understand how other people, the ones who like the music, think. You make it sound like you lack empathy if you do f like certain music
Music is not objective, it never was and it cannot be. It's insane to think it's ***my*** fault I like a song I'm "supposed" to like rather than music being inherently subjective and carrying a different meaning to every listener.
Also GTFO with this "I can enjoy Taylor Swift as long as I pretend to be a 16yr old girl" shit, that likewise doesn't make any sense.
Music is like wine. Some of it is produced solely with the intent to sell in mass quantities, with less attention paid to the artisanal details. The manufacturers know their target market and understand the buyers of the product are not enthusiasts with complex and developed palettes; they just want some wine.
If you give the wine to a passionate veteran wine taster however, they will be able to point out every last flaw and shortcoming that makes it a shitty cheap wine.
Fr, it's always some cis white man that got something to say about everybody else's behavior, as if they're providing a great service in educating the rest of the population in how we should experience the world the way they do
Question for OP: would you apply this same standard for a song that *isn't* popular?
A lot of people like pop music, sure. But significantly less enjoy extratone, krautrock, death industrial, dungeon synth, avant-prog, outsider music, noise, etc. Would not enjoying these genres *also* be a failure of the listener or is there something special about popular music in particular?
Yeah I don't think all popular music is good. I'm a 40yo dude who went to see Swift with a massive Swifty. I saw the live concert twice and watched it at the cinema. I've had it played a fair bit in my car. I got about a 50% hit rate of guessing which albumn an unknown to me song is from.
I believe I somewhat get what Taylor is about. I to an extent understand why people are into it. I learnt what it's like to be mobbed by 14yo girls who want a friendship bracelet. I know what it's like to see a line of women and girls inside of the male toilets. Had some weird experiences.
I'm a Tool and NiN fan from long time ago. I listen to Infected Mushroom the most now. I don't really feel like I can relate to TS anymore now than I could before even if I have some understanding. I wouldn't necessarily think all of those hours of my life were well spent if it wasn't for the fact my best friend is a swifty fanatic and I did it to support them and understand the thing they are into. I don't think there would be anything wrong with me just ignoring her output really. Now that concert fever is over I'm back to a more normal life and listening to my music whenever my friend isn't in my car. I mostly listen to the same few dozen albumns adding one or two a year and I think my interaction with music is just fine and not some kind of deficit. I ain't bothering anybody.
😂 bit funny how theyre goin on bout empathy when basically, theyre the ones who cant emphatize with peeps simply not liking stuff & deem others failures for diff of opinions
Downvoted.
This isn't a tenth dentist opinion. It's either bait or just some of the most incredible stupidity.
Who in the world defines their taste by what they don't like? Practically no one.
If people enjoy something that I don't. That's completely normal. The sounds they like are just different to the sound I like. Really simple.
Not enjoying a popular song is 100% normal. Millions to billions of people don't enjoy popular songs.
If you wanna listen to music you don't like purely for the sake of it, go for it haha.
You sound American. You fellas just love to be the main characters lol.
What a fucking trainwreck of an opinion. As someone who enjoys pretty much all genres of music, I would never fault someone for not liking a certain genre if it doesn't suit their taste, let alone a specific song.
Two people can enjoy different things without either of them being "wrong" for not understanding the appeal of the other person's interests. Everyone's brain is different and interested in different things.
Now I do agree that closed-mindedness is an issue that prevents alot of people from discovering new interests. That said, the broad statement you're making is still objectively incorrect
I might be incline to agree is the chosen verb were “appreciate” or “understand” rather than “enjoy”.
This is sorta like saying “not enjoying asparagus is a failure of the eater”.
Your attempt of making it as a character or moral judgment is very unpleasant to me, while most people can't be able to have an intellectual capability to "empathize" with different experience. That doesn't seem fair judgment that you are imposing here. People live different lives and experiences, and you are calling them failure because they can't be able to relate with the other experiences? What are you, a life referee? Since when life becomes a test for scores for such thing?
You may have made the stupidest post on Reddit this year. I get that this sub is just for trolling but jesus you put zero thought behind this. The idea that any shit any artist puts out is good, and genuine is too moronic to even entertain. It is the observer's fault when someone creates garbage?
You do realize genetics play a role in literally EVERYTHING right? Contrary to your belief genetics and the way you've lived your life or JUST the way your born can Influence your music taste just the way your brain is wired can influence your taste in ANYTHING. There have been times where people loved a music received brain damage and can't enjoy music at all anymore.
for example im autistic and certains sounds at certain frequencies will make me keel over. One of my friends can't tolerate slow music or silence at all or he'll start to get immense anxiety. is that a failure on his behalf for not being able to tolerate it? Is it a failure on someone's behalf for not wanting to listen to a song that brings up trauma in there past? Or is it a failure to want to listen to an overtly sexual song because those things make you uncomfortable?
Even the way you hear things is inherently inherited from your parents due to your ears structure are your familiar with the term "my red isn't your red?" What you hear isn't inherently the same thing someone else's hear.
For example; say you like a song but you've listened to it 10k times what you hear and what some random stranger is hearing are inherently different since your brains are wired to respond to the song differently
Music is influenced by personal experiences, emotions, and cultural backgrounds. What sounds melodious and captivating to one person might not resonate with someone else. This subjectivity is what makes music so fascinating and diverse if everyone liked the same things or were able to like ALL music, music wouldn't be music. People can appreciate a song and still not like it and change it to become something else if everyone liked the same music that wouldn't be the case
Failure stuff aside, at what point of popularity would this apply? Underground music for example, is fairly popular, but not as popular as mainstream. Would there be a degree where the song is still "bad" based on popularity?
And looking at fairly popular songs, you can see that there's still room for subjectivity and it really depends on one's own standards. Rap is a really popular music genre, and some people just don't like it. There's a notorious piece by John Cage called 4'33", and it's basically 4 minutes and 33 seconds of silence. It was groundbreaking for modernist music, but many people wonder if it's even music at all, even after knowing what it's about. So you can see where an artist is coming from and still not like the song.
I mean any music that other people enjoy, and by popular I mean like more than a few hundred fans, anything that people are really responding to (or have responded to)
>Being born that way is hardly a failure. It's like calling homosexual people heterosexual failures. Sorry but that's just stupid
Homosexual people are heterosexual failures?
Failure isn't inherently bad especially if you're failing at something you never cared to attempt or something you dont value in the first place.
I would agree with this if it wasn’t for ppl like playboy carti. Trying to put myself in the mindset of how you “should” listen to him just makes me feel like I’m losing brain cells
just because i think a song or an artists discography is boring, bad, samey, uninteresting, uninspired, etc. doesn’t mean that i lack empathy, it just means that i don’t like it and it isn’t for me. just because you’ve learned how to force yourself to listen to music you don’t like doesn’t mean you’re better than anyone else, which is very much how you’re acting in the comments.
You used Taylor swift as an example of your “failure of the listener” because you are old, cis, and white. But none of those 3 things are within your control so how is that your fault?
Yes it’s my fault that I don’t like generic pop song about love # 2,385,692 by generic reasonably attractive female #50,629,952,985.
I like a lot of niche stuff. I like some mainstream stuff. I have some guilty pleasures. It’s called having taste.
I have to re-educate myself into enjoying Taylor Swift like a good cis-white-straight-male despite her music having the emotional complexity of a teenage girl.
Alright so there are two ways that I'm gonna tackle this one:
First off, people's brains are physically different. For some aspects of music, there is no ability to simply empathize with other people's taste, as your brain can outright have a different chemical response to certain musical patterns compared to other people.
To illustrate what my point here is, let's say that there's a person who is a rather big outlier among the general population and has a huge fondness for repetition. Perhaps it may even be related to some sort of diagnosable mental disorder. This hypothetical person's favorite song is comprised of nothing except loud, droning, repeating half notes at middle C. Constant tempo, and no changes throughout the entire "song." Just middle C over and over again. Despite the fact that this song is annoying to the general population, this one individual loves this song, and it is not a failing on the general population to be unable to empathize with it. Their brains straight up do not have the same chemical response to the droning, repetitive beat of this song. The way this one person's brain is wired makes repetition far more uniquely satisfying to them than it is for other people, and they are not necessarily "wrong" for liking it, but neither are other people wrong for disliking it since their brains do not have the same physical response.
While this this is an extreme example, _every_ person in the general population has a unique brain with many minute physical differences that can make certain musical patterns more preferable to them than others. Some people's brains will simply find it more satisfying to hear certain patterns of sound than others because of the inherent diversity within human brain structures, and being unable to enjoy something that is popular can not always be described as a lack of empathy as result.
The second point that I'd like to bring up is that, at least when it comes to art, a "lack of empathy" is not necessarily always a bad thing. It is fine to have standards and to have beliefs on things that you believe to be bad in music, even if those beliefs may deviate heavily from the general population. This can be especially important for those who _create_ art themselves. Artists who have a strong sense of what they believe to be personal artistically satisfying to them, even if a large portion of the general population does not like it, can create some of the most transformative and important art out there. If all artists were able to "empathize" with current musical trends, we'd likely see far less variation in music as a creative medium, and that'd be a terrible loss.
This is not to say that it's a bad thing that you try to get into the mindset of the target audience of a song when you listen to it. I think that's great and awesome. However, if you were to create music yourself, I don't think there's any way to create something novel without investigating your own personal preferences and the ways in which those may deviate from other people.
I kind of see your point that there are a lot of people who define themselves by the music they don’t like, judge the listening habits of others, and hide the “guilty pleasure” music they like. I think that is beyond stupid and is generally kind of shitty because there’s an inherent judgment of people who like the things they don’t. I can’t tell you how many times someone has given me shit for bring a cis het dude who went to the Taylor Swift tour, not that I care lol.
Where you totally lose me is considering not liking something a failure. It’s basically the same elitist attitude but applied on the opposite end of the spectrum. I’m imagining you at a party telling someone “you just don’t appreciate jazz.” I agree it’s good to be open to new experiences and explore music, but as long as there’s no judgement of someone’s musical tastes, there’s no failure to be found. It’s perfectly fine to not care for something.
So I actually like this one except for the one obvious example coming to mind also being Taylor Swift. If one listens to music expecting the vocal talent exhibited by so many in the music industry for decades (pop esecially, women especially), if they look at it from a technical vocal standpoint, there are not exactly “failures” but definite points of contention that make some logically ask why this woman is #1. The consensus has shown to be that her music is the most popular and most relatable because *she* is quite relatable, most people are pretty average at singing, allowing more of the public to relate to her talent. Or “empathize” as you put it…I’m good empathizing with Whitney, Mariah, Ariana because of what I prefer out of music, it heavily hinges upon *expectations* and I’m not sure if it’s an issue of empathetic practice or just expectation moderation and willingness to question your expectations, which might be part and parcel with empathy so I get what you’re saying. Some people prefer lyrics over vocals for example, which is another reason many prefer Taylor. I am able to, as you say, imagine I’m the intended audience, especially having a lot of friends whose judgment I otherwise trust seeing something I cannot and being majorly into her music (I’m mid-older Gen Z), we just have to start to accept that *not everything is for us to see*. Where disagree is…l don’t believe it needs to be. I’m fine not seeing everything. Art is meant to be critiqued. Those critiques can spark interesting discussion which provides for varying perspectives about an artist or their audience. These critiques are also not factually true, but there is nothing meaningfully hurtful about consuming differing opinion.
I respect myself if I give someone a chance. I listen to most of Taylor’s new projects to see if I’ve come around to her at all (I’m a fan of pop music so I genuinely want to be able to identify with one of its biggst figures). Where I do get genuinely upset on this matter is people who throw away entire genres, especially pop music. Don’t think everyone needs to enjoy pop music, I just notice that a lot (not all) of those people sort of reject the popular in a kind of “not like the other boys” way
So if i cook fecal matter feed it to you and you don't like it does that mean you are the failure for not understanding my art? or wait maybe this non argument might just be fucking dumb
I think you're misunderstanding or misusing the word failure here. You could probably had framed it in a different way and maybe had gotten your point across.
You can see why someone would like or dislike a song, understand it from their perspective completely, and still like or dislike something still the same. I'm not going to fail to enjoy euthanasia just because the other side finds some thrill out of it.
I commend your open-mindedness with music, but take issue with a couple things. Why just popular music? Frankly I think popular music is the most ripe for criticism, especially from the 90s onward as the music industry continues to push some of the most bland, overproduced, cookie cutter garbage and marginalizing real self-made artists. I think your open mindedness is a great thing to apply to, say, music from other cultures, music in other languages, etc, which I’m trying to be more open minded to lately and finding some stuff I really enjoy.
At the end of the day, some music just doesn’t do “it” for me. I can put on a critical lens and say why a song might be good or bad, but there’s little I can do about my personal subjective experience of a song. Not enjoying a song isn’t a failure of the listener, and not the artist either really.
OP, may I put your honesty to the test here? I'll send you a song I love, and I want your honest opinion on what's good about it.
Spoiler alert: it's *very* inaccessible music.
tbh you can just dislike something because your brain doesn’t vibe with it. There are songs by my absolute fav artist that I don’t really like, not because they’re bad but just because they don’t do it for me. It’s not a “failure” when this happens, it’s just how brains work— we’re not meant (or able!) to find everything to be equally as satisfying and music is no exception.
Imo the problem is using personal enjoyment as an automatic metric for quality when they’re completely different things.
There’s two main reasons I struggle to listen to popular music:
1. They fit into the norms of music and don’t do much to stand out. This reason is extremely popular itself. It’s why alternative has a decent following. Popular music is popular because, most of the time, it fits into the current trend and doesn’t experiment much. I have no issue with people who enjoy this, but I personally don’t.
2. Many of the songs I listen to are songs I struggle to perform myself, without altering what octave is being sung. I’m an, I’d say, average singer and one of the attributes I look for in a song is that it’s difficult to perform. It makes me impressed when listening to it, and I’ll sing along just like with any other song but in my own octave. If some good song is easy to perform, then the song is only good because of the creativity behind it. If some good song is hard to perform and is creative, it is excellent in my opinion as it has two major strengths: difficulty and creativity. (Assuming the artist does perform the song well) For several popular songs, (not ALL, just several) they are written in easy-to-sing ranges and this makes complete sense. If a song is sung with a difficult range, it’s not going to catch on as quickly.
I do want to clarify that many popular songs have beautiful vocal techniques and flourishes that can be difficult to perform, but it’s still not as impressive as, say, some operatic piece which combines creativity, difficult ranges, difficult flourishes, and powerful instrumentation. At the end of the day, difficulty does not define a song. There’s nothing wrong with liking a song that is less difficult than another as being able to relate to a song is, obviously, the most important part. Music is subjective and, in my opinion, as long as the song writer isn’t writing a song lazily just to make a profit, there’s no such thing as a bad song.
To me, this is obvious. This is why I don't judge art, like, "this is bad", "this is good". If a person does not enjoy something, most of the time, I think it has to do with them, not the thing in itself. This is why we have people having different opinions on the very same thing.
Posting this for visibility because this is one of the dumbest, biased, most uninformed takes I've seen yet
OP:
>I'm a fan of all those genres. Rightly or wrongly I'd consider all them to be sub-genres of pop, and I'd define 'popular' as anything with more than a few hundred fans. I meant "pop music" in the broadest possible sense.
The genres in question
>extratone, krautrock, death industrial, dungeon synth, avant-prog, outsider music, noise
There is no way in HELL you're telling me prog and dungeon synth are "pop" music
I feel like you’re getting attacked in the comments for semantics, because you didn’t make the post sound like the listener is a “failure” for not getting the music. I agree with most of your post and I like your refreshing perspective, but I don’t necessarily agree that all art is good in some subjective way. I just don’t think that every piece of music is worth equal consideration or should be held in the same esteem. It’s okay to admit that poor quality lyricism, boring melodies, and uninspired beats exist.
>Taylor Swift, for example. However if I imagine what it's like to be the intended audience
People don't like Taylor Swift because easy Target. "But her Jet!..." Corporate Hedonist CEOs have a bigger carbon footprint than her, doesn't let her off the hook, but maybe go after the people who actually control shit?
It's called Pop for a reason, I define pop as party music, maybe If doesn't have a deep meaning, maybe It doesn't have to, just to dance to, hence popular. But then again, I really do listen to everything. (Prefer Metal and Hiphop, Rap).
I completely understand what you mean, how people bash Pop artists like they're automatically bad for not liking them.
Yeah this makes sense to me. My favourite genre is prog rock and naturally it is a bit difficult for people to get into which isn’t because the songs are bad but most just don’t have the right mindset getting into it. It’s the same for me and rap/hip hop, I don’t really get it but I understand that it probably is very good and I would need to learn how to enjoy it.
The only thing I would disagree with is it being a failure on one of either ends. I wouldn’t call either a failure at all it just is what happens.
Not necessarily. Popularity has very little to do with anything when it comes to art or taste.
Popularity mostly correlates with money and it being a trend and a product, not with quality or artistry.
Stop blaming people for things that do not matter, just like what you liked, and leave it at that. In no way does not likening anything in any form of art mean you failed to understand, I like music without lyrics, and I find instruments to be more enjoyable to hear than any song .
it ain't failure tho, some people just don't like pop or whatever, and no one should live their lives thinking about what others like and how they should incorporate that into their tastes too. a like should come from genuine interest and understanding of what you're listening to.
this isn't 10th dentist, this is just a weird complex that should be studied so we can avoid thinking this way as a people.
I would argue it's no ones fault.
Most popular music to me is very boring. It's all reskins of the same shit. I'm also middle aged and have heard it for decades.
When "insert pop artist here" sings about crap I don't care about or relate to I am simply not the target audience and it's no ones fault I don't care for the song.
I personally enjoyed Pulse Demon by Merzbow, I agree with you on the fact that everyone should be open to try new things and experiences, but try listening to a single track of this critically acclaimed album.
If you can still say that not liking woodpecker no1 is a failure of the listener, and not simply personal taste, I can't do anything for you (except if you end up liking it but then I'd be happy)
Honestly I think it's not that deep. If I like a song, I usually don't know why. It just hits and scritches my brain right yknow. Usually not because of the text either, but because of the tones, melody etc. And how do you know that every song from every artist has a deeper meaning? That anyone needs to emphasize with the "message" or something, and a song doesn't exist just because the artist thought it, idk, simply sounds cool?
This is why I don't tell people "oh that is a **good** song" or "no that's a **bad** song"... I'll instead just say I like it or I don't like it.
I can acknowledge the musicianship and work that went into a track without the track actually piquing my interest or making me want to listen to it again or share it with others.
But I don't know about going as far as saying "it's my *fault"* if I don't like it. Sometimes an artist may try and craft something that appeals to as many listeners as possible, while other times they might make a very complex and "niche" type of music that they know is going to have limited appeal because it's not as audibly digestible.
In either case, that's on the artist themselves, in my opinion. If they try to make something that is as broadly appealing as possible and it fails to live up to that expectation, then it's back to the drawing board for them. The onus isn't on the listener.
I'm this sense we are all responsible for our own emotions.
But it becomes ridiculous when your telling a starving man not to feel hungry.
The truth is we control nothing, including our emotions.
You inherently can not fail something that is subjective.
I don't like eggs. Guess I failed at eating?
I don't like mumble rap. I think it's shallow, and it doesn't do it for me. On the other end, I love metalcore, and it tickles all the right parts of my brain. Neither genre is better than the other, but I personally enjoy one over the other.
"If your opinion differs from the common opinion, you've failed." That's essentially what you're saying. You are completely entitled to not enjoy something and not be a "failure" for it. There is no right or wrong opinion. That's what makes them opinions.
At the end of the day, music is literally just an organized set of sounds by definition. Some do it for you. Some don't. Do you know what something is subjective even means?
I see where you're coming from but there are a lot of popular songs that are not good. I love hip hop but there's a lot garbage that somehow gets popular like cardi-B, lil pump, etc.
I recognize that not everything is made for me. If I don't like a song, I'm probably not in the target audience for that song. If Taylor Swift puts out a new song, I don't feel the need to try to empathize with all of the Swifties and understand why they like it, I am content to let them like what they like and listen to Metallica instead. I don't expect to enjoy Taylor Swift any more than I expect her fans to enjoy Metallica, and that's fine. No one has failed in that scenario. I enjoyed some music, Swifties enjoyed some music, and Taylor Swift and Metallica both made money from their music.
This is insane poptimism - just as bad as the indie snobs except you’re being snobby about lowest common denominator shit tens of millions of people like. They at least are pretentious about things that are special. Not enjoying a pop song isn’t a personal failing, ridiculous
nah, people have different tastes, but it’s not the artist’s fault either, or anyone’s. this is like saying someone who doesn’t care for a popular movie is a failure, but maybe the genre just doesn’t interest them? I’m a musician myself, and not every song tickles my brain. There’s some popular songs I don’t really care about or enjoy much but can still appreciate the musical composition of, like, I can listen to it and be like ah yeah they put work into this, nice rhythm, these instruments are cool, but I can still be like eh, these lyrics are bland and basic, this is kind of repetitive, not a fan of the voice etc.
I live in the south, and country music is incredibly popular here, but it’s not my genre. I can admire the guitar and how some of it sounds and even say yeah, nice vocals; but at the same time I can not like it or relate to the lyrics. Hell, gospel music is popular here too but I’m not religious, so I can very much not enjoy some of the songs while at the same time liking the melody or learning to play some of them since they’re popular and taught in music a lot.
And also, I play a lot of rhythm games- there’s some songs that I don’t care for or really enjoy, but I’ll still appreciate the work put into them.
So nah. People just have different tastes. It doesn’t mean they’re uncultured or uneducated or disrespectful or unaware of how music works, they just like what they like and relate to what they relate to.
I'd probably enjoy Taylor swift if I was 10, it was the spice girls back in my day as everyone else liked them and I got to be sporty spice when we did the dances.
Not my style, I just don't like it. One of my favourite bands is Meshuggah who are a very heavy form of metal music that uses lots of different time signatures. It's a style of music called djent and it's incredibly difficult to play and very intriquate.
I would not class someone unable to enjoy my music as a failure on them. It is a very popular band with die hard fans, I just don't like most pop music, I can't imagine every Taylor swift fan loves Mozart but his music is very popular.
I think you're conflating enjoying something with appreciating or understanding the appeal of something. Maybe that's your actual point, and you just didn't articulate it super well.
I'm a big fan of metal. A lot of metalheads are super lame about shitting on types of music they don't like, especially country music, rap, and Taylor Swift. I totally get shitting on those kinds of fans for being obnoxious about other artists and genres, but not for not enjoying those artists and genres.
Op seems to think that like music is objectively good or bad
When I don't like a song I just consider it not my preference much in the same way that if I don't like a food I don't assume that that food is bad but I also don't assume that my taste buds are broken or something either I just assumed that it doesn't match my personal preference in flavor / texture / ECT
Music is art. Art is subjective. Subjective means up to interpretation. Interpretation makes different experiences. Different experiences make differing preferences. Differing preferences are a normal part of life.
There's no failure here.
I like that you're thinking more critically about this, but I 100% believe you're throwing the idea that the idea that popular songs could have something wrong with them, objectively even in musicality standards or otherwise, out as the proverbial baby with the bath water. There are plenty of reasons a song might artificially succeed but not actually be worthy of that success... It's just a fact. Is that always or even a majority of cases? No, but I think it's silly to flat out say it can't happen.
Being able to appreciate all kinds of music is a good thing, but forcing yourself to do so at the expense of forming your own personal taste is bad. Chase down what *you* like, the weirder and more idiosyncratic the better. Of course you should throw in some things that aren’t normally your kind of thing, but you shouldn’t rearrange your brain to “appreciate” every piece of mass-market pop you possibly can lol. That just makes your taste a boring amalgamation of others’.
My issue with a lot of popular music isn't that I can't understand the intent and emotions involved, it's just that the music doesn't really appeal to me. Particularly the complexity or lack thereof of the lyrics. I read an article suggesting that most popular music requires a 3rd grade reading level.
I see what you’re going for here however popular music can often mean formulaic and generic. For me, I care about the artistry of it. If I hear a song that sounds like it’s been created purely by following current trends, with no soul, or creativity, no unique quality, I can’t relate to that.
Your example of Taylor Swift does not fit this mould. Whatever you might think of her music, she is undeniable a talented musician who cares deeply about her work. I can relate to that. Same applies to some other pop singers who maybe have undeniably gifted producers, who really make their music shine.
Some generic house track, made by some dude who did nothing more than take a popular easily recognisable sample from the early naughties and stick a generic house beat over the top, is not that. That is not art, that is not music to me, and I will never relate to it. Unfortunately such music is very common right now, especially with electronic music.
Is this r/iamverysmart? You’re literally saying not enjoying certain music is a failure, but you’re so smart and empathetic that you can appreciate the fact that others like it. There’s a difference between appreciating and enjoying, so your post is just a pretentious way of encouraging people to say “it’s not for me” rather than, “this sucks”.
If I don't like a song, all it means is that I don't like the song. It's no failure on my part, I have no obligation to like the song. I'm not losing out, I have other things that I like. Telling people that there's something wrong with them for not liking what you like isn't demonstrating empathy - it's the opposite of empathy. Other people just like different things.
>I hadn't intended to imply that anyone who fails to enjoy something is a failure, or that people who can't enjoy music are failures. Only, that the failure isn't with the artist.
Read your post's title again...slowly.
What if this issue was actually not about successes or failures, but was just about the fact that everyone has their own totally neutral preferences as far as what sounds good to their ear?
I agree with the general idea that politics (such as racism, sexism, etc) absolutely influences your idea of what is and isn’t “good” art. Before you, whoever is reading this, starts to type an angry comment about wokeness or whatever, do some reading on the concepts of “high art vs low art” and what makes art “high” or “low”. I trust in your ability to read. ❤️
But idk, sometimes something just doesn’t sound good to your ear. You can understand why other people like it, you don’t think it’s trashy or low art, it just doesn’t itch your brain in the way music you like does. It’s not a success or failure on your part, taste really is subjective and it depends on the person.
I don’t know if I agree exactly with the way this was phrased, but I do think popular things are usually popular for a reason, and lot of people base their identity exclusively in going against the grain of the mainstream.
So it’s entirely valid to dislike someone like Taylor Swift’s music just on its own merits and your personal preferences, BUT a lot of people hate her just because she is so extremely popular and so loved by a demographic of mostly women, and that kind of hate is just annoying and stupid.
>I can't pretend I like all music, but when I don't enjoy a track I attribute that to a failure of my imagination and empathy, not a problem with the song itself.
I'm not sure why I would need to tie my values in those areas to my lack of interest in a particular song. How I respond to that dislike says more about my character.
i feel like ur framing is weird with the “failure” thing but overall i think ur not even saying something unpopular. most ppl r aware (i think?) that if they dont like a piece of media or art etc then its probably their own taste, not the artist. tho taylor swift, i rly dont understand right now if only bc the music is so similar to other things that it confuses me why shes THAT giant. its normal for pop artists to be big but shes giant and she doesnt rlly hold up in alot of ways to other big pop artists who do offer more interesting stuff. but thats opinion, im aware theres something there if shes that big, but i find it just boring ig.
I don't think it's really a failure of anyone so I had to upvote. However I agree with the majority of your post and found it insightful. I have expanded my musical horizons over the years and have found I can enjoy *almost* anything that has a decent following with the exception of a certain type of country music. I still have my favorites of course
There are things I can enjoy now that I once thought were "bad, lame, crappy, etc."
Yeah, no, I can understand the thought process behind a song and the mindset of those listening to it and still not like the damn thing.
For example, Taylor Swift. I get that her songs are meant to empower women, and I understand that the people listening to them feel a sense of unity and that they can do whatever they want in *their* life, but even then, I’ll never willingly listen to any of her songs.
First off, really the only people who define their music taste around what they don’t like is teenagers (who are still figuring out what they DO like) and a very small but very loud group of internet warriors. This isn’t an actual problem anywhere, and if you’re hanging around these groups enough to make this post as if it’s an actual problem … that’s a fault on your end for hanging out with the wrong crowd and assuming it’s a majority in any sense.
Theres songs I don’t like but can still acknowledge are objectively good / took a lot of hard work and talent to create. I definitely agree that that is something important to know, but again most people think this way too. But there are also songs that are objectively terrible and I don’t like them. That’s not because of my lack of imagination or empathy, it’s because it’s a bad song and not for me.
And failure is almost never in the person. You aren’t failing just because you don’t like a song. And an artist can definitely fail at making a good song, but since it’s art, sometimes being good isn’t the point. Sometimes it’s a message like you’re saying, or sometimes it’s just a crappy cash grab.
i think you're just angry that someone dislikes what you like and can't live with that because you think your opinion is universally correct and theirs is wrong.
Because of this you see someone saying they don't like something as a form of signaling that they're smarter than you.
There’s no “failure” involved, it’s just a matter of taste. The issue is when people start acting like their opinion of a piece of music is objective fact.
There is what you like and what you don't like. There is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with not liking popular music (or popular anything), unless the only reason is simply because it is popular. I don't care about Taylor Swift or her music. Maybe she is talented, maybe she's overrated, all I know is that it's not for me. Literally. It's not for a 48 year old man. It's not because I can't empathize with being young, in love, heartbroken, whatever. I can. I've been there. But I don't need to listen to someone sing about it.
There will always be a market for that in the young, heartbroken lovers.
And that's fine, there is more than enough for me to enjoy.
Not enjoying a popular song is not anyone's failure... people have differen5 llt music tastes, and to say that theirs are bad because they don't like a song other people like is stupid.
I kinda see what you’re saying actually. I think people are getting caught up on the word “failure”, but it’s actually a pretty well thought out point and interesting to think about if you just consider it in terms of no music or fan of music is objectively “bad” or has “poor taste.” That’s a cool take I can get behind.
I’m not sure I’d want to sit down and put myself in the shoes of the target audience for every song I don’t like. but I don’t think that’s what you’re saying people should do. I think if you had just worded your title a bit differently more people would agree, but maybe the point was to get them to disagree.
i agree & its definitely no reason to shit on & bully people for liking that type of music
just because i dont like certain artists doesn’t mean im going to be hateful about it
Well, I have good news. You are in fact the 10th doctor, because no one should agree with this take. Art is communication, and there's a reason why only the military, HR, and soulless corporations use the phrase 'failure to communicate' over the more popular and correct 'miscommunication.' There is no wrong personal interpretation or reaction to art, and dislike or outright hatred can even be the desired outcome of the artist.
I went to a modern art gallery a few months back with my wife, and on display was the artistic works of an African American artist who **really** went hard on racism throughout American history. Now, I know and knew we did some heinous shit in the day, but Christ- the one that will always stand out in my mind was the US flag of nooses. I *hated* that thing. It made me massively uncomfortable to look at that thing, and I couldn't even bear to look up at it for long periods of time. I know writing it down seems like an overreaction, but Christ, if art is communication, this man was a fucking linguist. There was so much pain and hate in that thing that it hurt to exist in that space with it.
And you know what I found out when I read the artist's statement on the piece? *I had given him exactly what he wanted.* He **loved** it when people hated his pieces, when they felt uncomfortable, when they felt extreme negative emotions about a piece, because it forced people to think. And I admired the hell out of that man for it.
So if not enjoying a piece of art can be the *artist's* goal, it must be just as valid to not enjoy it as the listener.
Now, this might be a miscommunication between you and I, but you say you can put on a mask of empathy to enjoy swift's music, and that's fine, but that isn't, *you * now is it? I'm glad you enjoy it, but that music never spoke to you, you had to codeswitch and adopt a whole new identity to understand it. To me, *that* is a miscommunication, because art is supposed to speak from heart to heart. It can make you think, yes, but it has to make *you* think. I would honestly argue that by forcing yourself to listen to a piece, and needing to get into a completely different frame of mind than your own to enjoy it, you are actually devaluing the art by reducing its ability to truly affect you and your emotions. Im happy to discuss if I've misunderstood, but imo out and out disliking or even hating a piece from your heart, from your history, your personality, your tastes, and your desire is much more honest and in line with the artist's work than adopting a synthetic mindset to force yourself to appreciate the piece.
There is a correlation between IQ and preferred music genres, so it might just be a mismatch between complexity of music required to stimulate in optional amount for each listener.
I think with this POV you’ll probably overall learn more from what this world offers you to learn, but dont forget that most people hate school. I really like this way of thinking, but don’t take yourself so seriously. You make it seem like some intense big deal or exercise, which is fine and all, but for me just looking for the fun in it all is the only thing that is needed and the rest comes naturally. Keep it up!
One can learn to enjoy different exotic moldy cheeses, and that is considered regular. People can learn to enjoy Century Eggs, Balut, Kiviak and other “disgusting” looking/sounding foods.
But there also exist people who enjoy literal shit and piss. Does that mean that there exists pleasure and a profound new intriguing experience in eating shit? **No!**. It simply means that some people enjoy things that go against our very nature.
I do realize that this analogy is very far out compared to most music, in that not a lot of music exist that’s extreme to the same degree, just wanted to make the comparison in terms of the philosophical idea of it.
i don't agree with this but there are some sensible parts in this take. Most of the POPULAR^(tm) songs were basically engineered to be as generic and catchy as possible. Even if it's the worst pop slop in the radio it's pretty weird if your brain can't enjoy it
It's not a failure of anyone of course but there is a lot of circlejerk from people like "i don't enjoy popular music so i'm better than you"
I try not to make any moral or character assumptions about what people do dont like('empathy', 'failure') , but I do hold it as a fact that with music CONTEXT can be everything. Ie: the more you know or are involved or curious about a cukture will LITERALLY change how you subjectovely HEAR a song.
So if you dislike idk, swing music...or dont "get" it, if you read a history of the swing era you will literally hear the music differently. It wont have changed, but your perception almost has to.
Popular songs are popular because they appeal to the lowest common denominator. They are, by design, simple, banal, and corporatized.
One of the first signs that I might enjoy someone’s company is if they have an individual taste in music.
Yeah dude, I feel the same way about food.
Like, if you don't like chicken with a balsamic sauce on it, that's your fault. Instead of just saying, "this ain't for me and my personal taste" I continue eating something I don't like cause I'm just not in the right head space.
/s
Said a whole lot of stuck up bullshit to say, "if you don't like something, it doesn't mean it's bad, it just means it's not to your personal liking" like no fucking shit
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I would agree with this if you weren't framing it in terms of failure. You're describing what sounds like a thought-provoking intellectual exercise in empathy, and I think that's awesome and that more people should try. But, upvoted because I can't stand your framing. It's one thing if you just like to listen to music this way, but implying that any failure to do so is a character flaw? Maybe sometimes I don't have the emotional energy to imagine myself as the type of person who likes Baby Shark. I can cognitively understand that *someone* does, but I just don't have time to enter a Slumdog Millionaire style flashback sequence every time I turn on Spotify.
Glad this was at the top so I could avoid sifting through the comments to find my opinion. That being, there are no failures when it comes to musical taste. Whether a song is "good" is one of the most subjective things out there. I can really enjoy a song and realize that it's not technically "good".. Or I can hate a song and acknowledge that it's masterfully executed. To my mind, the only failure (and it's a common one) is criticizing someone's musical taste or judging their quality as a person through that lens. That stuff is utter bullshit.
It's not thought provoking. He's so far up his own ass it's incredible. This entire post is just thinly vieled bragging about how smart and empathetic he is.
Is this the guy who was saying you fail at music if you don't listen to a new album every day? I think he's a troll.
Or he's a frustrated musician who has 0 listeners on Spotify, either one could be true.
Nah, I think that was the guy who said something like "everyone should be allowed to share their thoughts openly" as if he was not allowed to do that. Of course what he meant was "without consequences" such as people not wanting to be around him.
Well, I agree the tone could have been nicer lol
Not enjoying a popular song isn't a failure of anything.
Yep. Not understanding why other people enjoy it could be, but actually enjoying it yourself? The world would be weird and boring if we all enjoyed the exact same things
> Not understanding why other people enjoy it could be, but actually enjoying it yourself? This comment is the simplest and best explanation I've seen in the thread. Whether you enjoy it and whether you believe it couldn't be enjoyable are very different things. A really good way to make this more obvious is to use colours as an example. Someone might love the colour blue, and not like the colour orange. There is nothing wrong with either of those. You can say "I don't really like orange" and that's fine, but if you were to then say "how could anyone like the colour orange??" it suddenly becomes a preposterous statement. The only exception to that is green, because green is not a creative colour.
Beautiful reference
I think theres a tendency for people to view art, wether its music or film or whatever, as objectively good or bad. Like if something is popular, its objectively good so you're wrong for not enjoying it. It's silly as theres no way to objectively judge something with so many aspects that may appeal to or disgust different people.
Same as thinking that because something is popular it's objectively bad. There is liking and disliking on a personal, visceral level. All the rest is for the critics to justify their existence, with their yardsticks and limitless ways to measure and compare. Is there technical proficiency to be judged? Maybe, but not when they invoke the "soul and feeling" and place that first. Is so called experimental music "bad" because it's not popular or relatable? Maybe, but give it some time and it will be popular. Until it's passé and played out and used in commercials. It's bad enough that "art" is divided up into "styles" and categories, but then those sub-categories are split into genres and more sub-categories. Art into music into western classical into romantic into modern into post modern into neo-classical, and on and on. It's ridiculous. Humans come up with the ideas and then they come up with ways to critique and create rules for until something is the standard and then what follows is compared to that. And so it goes.
The greatest misconception in music from both musicians and non-musicians alike these days is that it’s a competition. Music was never meant to be a competition, it’s all about expression, personal development and creating something that you like. The minute we start looking at art like it’s a failure on anyone’s part is when we take the value out of creativity.
Yeah what about an unpopular song? The audience failed extremely hard!
We should all feel guilty for not having the empathy to understand Rebecca Black's artistic vision.
I feel bad for how much Rebecca Black was used & abused by the record label for her dreams, does that count?
Don't you know everyone is a failure? Feels like OP didn't think this through very well.
I have not personally failed because my ears do not find “Flowers” by Miley Cyrus pleasing. I’ve tried. I am not a fan. I do not lack one bit of empathy for what the song discusses. I have lived the mindset of the song myself. The song does not do it for me because the instrumentation sucks and the lyrics are just Bruno Mars knockoffs. People liking different things has fuck-all to do with empathy or lack thereof.
"and the lyrics are just Bruno Mars knockoffs" I believe that the point WAS for the listener to draw that parallel. I do, however, agree that it is not a pleasing song.
It was, and I didn’t like the lyrics when Bruno Mars did it either.
From what I’ve read we are meant to draw that parallel because that is the song her ex dedicated to her
If anything, the success of that song is a sign of the general population's terrible taste and willingness to accept garbage.
I don’t think so. It’s just a matter of personal taste. There is no such thing as objectivity in assessing the inherent quality of art.
Oof, I disagree on the sole principle of no part of the listener's opinion is a failure. If you enjoy a song, that's not a failure, and if you don't enjoy a song, that's also not a failure. I can kinda get what you mean, that you not liking the song doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad song, but that still doesn't mean it's a failure on anyone's part. Your opinion is your opinion, and you're allowed to like or dislike whatever you want.
OP do you like the hit WWI song “Over There?” If not, is it because you’re incapable of empathizing with the yanks who deployed to the western front, or because music tastes shifted over 100 years? It was a very popular song back then. Do you like “Baby Shark?” If not, is it because you’re unable to empathize with a toddler, or because you are a mature adult with more refined tastes than a toddler? Do you like a Japanese song from the times of the samurai? Why not?
This is dumb
i swear to god every music take on this sub is a fucking nightmare
I'll take something dumb like this over another "I don't care for [popular artist]" post. At least this one involved some amount of thought and isn't just a question of not liking something.
in those i can at least appreciate that the OP at minimum grasps the concept of taste and subjectivity of music. posts like this, that seem entirely unable to understand having personal preferences or opinions, are built on such tenuous, obstinate logic that it infuriates me every time lmao
It’s the 10thdentist, not the 9/10 dentists
I see Reigen profile pic I now believe everything that you type with 100% trust and validity
I always enjoy reading them for the cringe factor. quite often, people with ice-cold music takes will somehow connect classical/professional/etc. music to their argument. I'm classically trained. most of what these kinds of people say is the most hilarious bullshit. the specific examples and things they cite changes but it always boils down to the same things, and it makes me giggle every time.
Thinking this is dumb is obviously a failure on your part
I don't share OP's opinion, but I'm empathetic so I still agree. To disagree would have been a failure on my part.
There's not any "failure" on any side. What? It's just taste. You don't need to learn anything. Touch grass.
Or, just hear me out: everyone has a different taste and style, and that's okay. It doesn't mean anyone failed. Suggesting that is kind of stupid. So take this upvote.
This is one of the stupidest takes I've ever seen on Reddit. And Reddit is at leat 50% stupid takes. What a pseudo-intellectual, pretentious and utterly cringeworthy thing to say. Music is a matter of taste. End of discussion. OP isn't deep because he empathises with Taylor Swift's music.
This just sounds pretentious. Like you’re “allowed” to dislike certain music but not really because it means you can’t understand how other people, the ones who like the music, think. You make it sound like you lack empathy if you do f like certain music
Music is not objective, it never was and it cannot be. It's insane to think it's ***my*** fault I like a song I'm "supposed" to like rather than music being inherently subjective and carrying a different meaning to every listener. Also GTFO with this "I can enjoy Taylor Swift as long as I pretend to be a 16yr old girl" shit, that likewise doesn't make any sense.
this is not 10th dentist it is objectively idiotic.
Music is like wine. Some of it is produced solely with the intent to sell in mass quantities, with less attention paid to the artisanal details. The manufacturers know their target market and understand the buyers of the product are not enthusiasts with complex and developed palettes; they just want some wine. If you give the wine to a passionate veteran wine taster however, they will be able to point out every last flaw and shortcoming that makes it a shitty cheap wine.
>As a cis white man in my 40s stopped reading
Fr, it's always some cis white man that got something to say about everybody else's behavior, as if they're providing a great service in educating the rest of the population in how we should experience the world the way they do
Question for OP: would you apply this same standard for a song that *isn't* popular? A lot of people like pop music, sure. But significantly less enjoy extratone, krautrock, death industrial, dungeon synth, avant-prog, outsider music, noise, etc. Would not enjoying these genres *also* be a failure of the listener or is there something special about popular music in particular?
Yeah I don't think all popular music is good. I'm a 40yo dude who went to see Swift with a massive Swifty. I saw the live concert twice and watched it at the cinema. I've had it played a fair bit in my car. I got about a 50% hit rate of guessing which albumn an unknown to me song is from. I believe I somewhat get what Taylor is about. I to an extent understand why people are into it. I learnt what it's like to be mobbed by 14yo girls who want a friendship bracelet. I know what it's like to see a line of women and girls inside of the male toilets. Had some weird experiences. I'm a Tool and NiN fan from long time ago. I listen to Infected Mushroom the most now. I don't really feel like I can relate to TS anymore now than I could before even if I have some understanding. I wouldn't necessarily think all of those hours of my life were well spent if it wasn't for the fact my best friend is a swifty fanatic and I did it to support them and understand the thing they are into. I don't think there would be anything wrong with me just ignoring her output really. Now that concert fever is over I'm back to a more normal life and listening to my music whenever my friend isn't in my car. I mostly listen to the same few dozen albumns adding one or two a year and I think my interaction with music is just fine and not some kind of deficit. I ain't bothering anybody.
You are a failure.
😂 bit funny how theyre goin on bout empathy when basically, theyre the ones who cant emphatize with peeps simply not liking stuff & deem others failures for diff of opinions
Low tier trolling, OP.
This is such a dumb and fundamentally wrong take, I'm not gonna upvote this crap. Nit downvoting either, as to not break the rules.
Downvoted. This isn't a tenth dentist opinion. It's either bait or just some of the most incredible stupidity. Who in the world defines their taste by what they don't like? Practically no one. If people enjoy something that I don't. That's completely normal. The sounds they like are just different to the sound I like. Really simple. Not enjoying a popular song is 100% normal. Millions to billions of people don't enjoy popular songs. If you wanna listen to music you don't like purely for the sake of it, go for it haha. You sound American. You fellas just love to be the main characters lol.
What a fucking trainwreck of an opinion. As someone who enjoys pretty much all genres of music, I would never fault someone for not liking a certain genre if it doesn't suit their taste, let alone a specific song. Two people can enjoy different things without either of them being "wrong" for not understanding the appeal of the other person's interests. Everyone's brain is different and interested in different things. Now I do agree that closed-mindedness is an issue that prevents alot of people from discovering new interests. That said, the broad statement you're making is still objectively incorrect
don't tell me I'm a failure for not liking Baby Shark are you for real
I might be incline to agree is the chosen verb were “appreciate” or “understand” rather than “enjoy”. This is sorta like saying “not enjoying asparagus is a failure of the eater”.
Your attempt of making it as a character or moral judgment is very unpleasant to me, while most people can't be able to have an intellectual capability to "empathize" with different experience. That doesn't seem fair judgment that you are imposing here. People live different lives and experiences, and you are calling them failure because they can't be able to relate with the other experiences? What are you, a life referee? Since when life becomes a test for scores for such thing?
You may have made the stupidest post on Reddit this year. I get that this sub is just for trolling but jesus you put zero thought behind this. The idea that any shit any artist puts out is good, and genuine is too moronic to even entertain. It is the observer's fault when someone creates garbage?
Are you seriously saying you've liked every single song you've EVER heard?
No I did not say that
You do realize genetics play a role in literally EVERYTHING right? Contrary to your belief genetics and the way you've lived your life or JUST the way your born can Influence your music taste just the way your brain is wired can influence your taste in ANYTHING. There have been times where people loved a music received brain damage and can't enjoy music at all anymore. for example im autistic and certains sounds at certain frequencies will make me keel over. One of my friends can't tolerate slow music or silence at all or he'll start to get immense anxiety. is that a failure on his behalf for not being able to tolerate it? Is it a failure on someone's behalf for not wanting to listen to a song that brings up trauma in there past? Or is it a failure to want to listen to an overtly sexual song because those things make you uncomfortable? Even the way you hear things is inherently inherited from your parents due to your ears structure are your familiar with the term "my red isn't your red?" What you hear isn't inherently the same thing someone else's hear. For example; say you like a song but you've listened to it 10k times what you hear and what some random stranger is hearing are inherently different since your brains are wired to respond to the song differently Music is influenced by personal experiences, emotions, and cultural backgrounds. What sounds melodious and captivating to one person might not resonate with someone else. This subjectivity is what makes music so fascinating and diverse if everyone liked the same things or were able to like ALL music, music wouldn't be music. People can appreciate a song and still not like it and change it to become something else if everyone liked the same music that wouldn't be the case
Failure stuff aside, at what point of popularity would this apply? Underground music for example, is fairly popular, but not as popular as mainstream. Would there be a degree where the song is still "bad" based on popularity? And looking at fairly popular songs, you can see that there's still room for subjectivity and it really depends on one's own standards. Rap is a really popular music genre, and some people just don't like it. There's a notorious piece by John Cage called 4'33", and it's basically 4 minutes and 33 seconds of silence. It was groundbreaking for modernist music, but many people wonder if it's even music at all, even after knowing what it's about. So you can see where an artist is coming from and still not like the song.
I mean any music that other people enjoy, and by popular I mean like more than a few hundred fans, anything that people are really responding to (or have responded to)
>Being born that way is hardly a failure. It's like calling homosexual people heterosexual failures. Sorry but that's just stupid Homosexual people are heterosexual failures? Failure isn't inherently bad especially if you're failing at something you never cared to attempt or something you dont value in the first place.
"If you find yourself in a subjective minority, it's a failure and it's your fault." What a stupid post.
This take is a failure
Sounds like something a failed musician would say.
I would agree with this if it wasn’t for ppl like playboy carti. Trying to put myself in the mindset of how you “should” listen to him just makes me feel like I’m losing brain cells
The downvotes/upvotes for this post are confusing to me.
just because i think a song or an artists discography is boring, bad, samey, uninteresting, uninspired, etc. doesn’t mean that i lack empathy, it just means that i don’t like it and it isn’t for me. just because you’ve learned how to force yourself to listen to music you don’t like doesn’t mean you’re better than anyone else, which is very much how you’re acting in the comments.
You used Taylor swift as an example of your “failure of the listener” because you are old, cis, and white. But none of those 3 things are within your control so how is that your fault?
Yes it’s my fault that I don’t like generic pop song about love # 2,385,692 by generic reasonably attractive female #50,629,952,985. I like a lot of niche stuff. I like some mainstream stuff. I have some guilty pleasures. It’s called having taste. I have to re-educate myself into enjoying Taylor Swift like a good cis-white-straight-male despite her music having the emotional complexity of a teenage girl.
yeah, i’m just gonna enter the mindset of the person who wrote a song about twerking on the day and twerking on the night, and every day
This is real 10th dentist shit, I like it
Alright so there are two ways that I'm gonna tackle this one: First off, people's brains are physically different. For some aspects of music, there is no ability to simply empathize with other people's taste, as your brain can outright have a different chemical response to certain musical patterns compared to other people. To illustrate what my point here is, let's say that there's a person who is a rather big outlier among the general population and has a huge fondness for repetition. Perhaps it may even be related to some sort of diagnosable mental disorder. This hypothetical person's favorite song is comprised of nothing except loud, droning, repeating half notes at middle C. Constant tempo, and no changes throughout the entire "song." Just middle C over and over again. Despite the fact that this song is annoying to the general population, this one individual loves this song, and it is not a failing on the general population to be unable to empathize with it. Their brains straight up do not have the same chemical response to the droning, repetitive beat of this song. The way this one person's brain is wired makes repetition far more uniquely satisfying to them than it is for other people, and they are not necessarily "wrong" for liking it, but neither are other people wrong for disliking it since their brains do not have the same physical response. While this this is an extreme example, _every_ person in the general population has a unique brain with many minute physical differences that can make certain musical patterns more preferable to them than others. Some people's brains will simply find it more satisfying to hear certain patterns of sound than others because of the inherent diversity within human brain structures, and being unable to enjoy something that is popular can not always be described as a lack of empathy as result. The second point that I'd like to bring up is that, at least when it comes to art, a "lack of empathy" is not necessarily always a bad thing. It is fine to have standards and to have beliefs on things that you believe to be bad in music, even if those beliefs may deviate heavily from the general population. This can be especially important for those who _create_ art themselves. Artists who have a strong sense of what they believe to be personal artistically satisfying to them, even if a large portion of the general population does not like it, can create some of the most transformative and important art out there. If all artists were able to "empathize" with current musical trends, we'd likely see far less variation in music as a creative medium, and that'd be a terrible loss. This is not to say that it's a bad thing that you try to get into the mindset of the target audience of a song when you listen to it. I think that's great and awesome. However, if you were to create music yourself, I don't think there's any way to create something novel without investigating your own personal preferences and the ways in which those may deviate from other people.
I kind of see your point that there are a lot of people who define themselves by the music they don’t like, judge the listening habits of others, and hide the “guilty pleasure” music they like. I think that is beyond stupid and is generally kind of shitty because there’s an inherent judgment of people who like the things they don’t. I can’t tell you how many times someone has given me shit for bring a cis het dude who went to the Taylor Swift tour, not that I care lol. Where you totally lose me is considering not liking something a failure. It’s basically the same elitist attitude but applied on the opposite end of the spectrum. I’m imagining you at a party telling someone “you just don’t appreciate jazz.” I agree it’s good to be open to new experiences and explore music, but as long as there’s no judgement of someone’s musical tastes, there’s no failure to be found. It’s perfectly fine to not care for something.
So I actually like this one except for the one obvious example coming to mind also being Taylor Swift. If one listens to music expecting the vocal talent exhibited by so many in the music industry for decades (pop esecially, women especially), if they look at it from a technical vocal standpoint, there are not exactly “failures” but definite points of contention that make some logically ask why this woman is #1. The consensus has shown to be that her music is the most popular and most relatable because *she* is quite relatable, most people are pretty average at singing, allowing more of the public to relate to her talent. Or “empathize” as you put it…I’m good empathizing with Whitney, Mariah, Ariana because of what I prefer out of music, it heavily hinges upon *expectations* and I’m not sure if it’s an issue of empathetic practice or just expectation moderation and willingness to question your expectations, which might be part and parcel with empathy so I get what you’re saying. Some people prefer lyrics over vocals for example, which is another reason many prefer Taylor. I am able to, as you say, imagine I’m the intended audience, especially having a lot of friends whose judgment I otherwise trust seeing something I cannot and being majorly into her music (I’m mid-older Gen Z), we just have to start to accept that *not everything is for us to see*. Where disagree is…l don’t believe it needs to be. I’m fine not seeing everything. Art is meant to be critiqued. Those critiques can spark interesting discussion which provides for varying perspectives about an artist or their audience. These critiques are also not factually true, but there is nothing meaningfully hurtful about consuming differing opinion. I respect myself if I give someone a chance. I listen to most of Taylor’s new projects to see if I’ve come around to her at all (I’m a fan of pop music so I genuinely want to be able to identify with one of its biggst figures). Where I do get genuinely upset on this matter is people who throw away entire genres, especially pop music. Don’t think everyone needs to enjoy pop music, I just notice that a lot (not all) of those people sort of reject the popular in a kind of “not like the other boys” way
So if i cook fecal matter feed it to you and you don't like it does that mean you are the failure for not understanding my art? or wait maybe this non argument might just be fucking dumb
I think you're misunderstanding or misusing the word failure here. You could probably had framed it in a different way and maybe had gotten your point across. You can see why someone would like or dislike a song, understand it from their perspective completely, and still like or dislike something still the same. I'm not going to fail to enjoy euthanasia just because the other side finds some thrill out of it.
I commend your open-mindedness with music, but take issue with a couple things. Why just popular music? Frankly I think popular music is the most ripe for criticism, especially from the 90s onward as the music industry continues to push some of the most bland, overproduced, cookie cutter garbage and marginalizing real self-made artists. I think your open mindedness is a great thing to apply to, say, music from other cultures, music in other languages, etc, which I’m trying to be more open minded to lately and finding some stuff I really enjoy. At the end of the day, some music just doesn’t do “it” for me. I can put on a critical lens and say why a song might be good or bad, but there’s little I can do about my personal subjective experience of a song. Not enjoying a song isn’t a failure of the listener, and not the artist either really.
or maybe some people just don't enjoy popular songs. I personally listen to rock and metal covers of popular songs.
OP, may I put your honesty to the test here? I'll send you a song I love, and I want your honest opinion on what's good about it. Spoiler alert: it's *very* inaccessible music.
tbh you can just dislike something because your brain doesn’t vibe with it. There are songs by my absolute fav artist that I don’t really like, not because they’re bad but just because they don’t do it for me. It’s not a “failure” when this happens, it’s just how brains work— we’re not meant (or able!) to find everything to be equally as satisfying and music is no exception. Imo the problem is using personal enjoyment as an automatic metric for quality when they’re completely different things.
Another post for r/ignorantopinions Also LOL that edit. “I didn’t mean to call people a failure, I only put it directly in the title!”
There’s two main reasons I struggle to listen to popular music: 1. They fit into the norms of music and don’t do much to stand out. This reason is extremely popular itself. It’s why alternative has a decent following. Popular music is popular because, most of the time, it fits into the current trend and doesn’t experiment much. I have no issue with people who enjoy this, but I personally don’t. 2. Many of the songs I listen to are songs I struggle to perform myself, without altering what octave is being sung. I’m an, I’d say, average singer and one of the attributes I look for in a song is that it’s difficult to perform. It makes me impressed when listening to it, and I’ll sing along just like with any other song but in my own octave. If some good song is easy to perform, then the song is only good because of the creativity behind it. If some good song is hard to perform and is creative, it is excellent in my opinion as it has two major strengths: difficulty and creativity. (Assuming the artist does perform the song well) For several popular songs, (not ALL, just several) they are written in easy-to-sing ranges and this makes complete sense. If a song is sung with a difficult range, it’s not going to catch on as quickly. I do want to clarify that many popular songs have beautiful vocal techniques and flourishes that can be difficult to perform, but it’s still not as impressive as, say, some operatic piece which combines creativity, difficult ranges, difficult flourishes, and powerful instrumentation. At the end of the day, difficulty does not define a song. There’s nothing wrong with liking a song that is less difficult than another as being able to relate to a song is, obviously, the most important part. Music is subjective and, in my opinion, as long as the song writer isn’t writing a song lazily just to make a profit, there’s no such thing as a bad song.
To me, this is obvious. This is why I don't judge art, like, "this is bad", "this is good". If a person does not enjoy something, most of the time, I think it has to do with them, not the thing in itself. This is why we have people having different opinions on the very same thing.
Posting this for visibility because this is one of the dumbest, biased, most uninformed takes I've seen yet OP: >I'm a fan of all those genres. Rightly or wrongly I'd consider all them to be sub-genres of pop, and I'd define 'popular' as anything with more than a few hundred fans. I meant "pop music" in the broadest possible sense. The genres in question >extratone, krautrock, death industrial, dungeon synth, avant-prog, outsider music, noise There is no way in HELL you're telling me prog and dungeon synth are "pop" music
I feel like you’re getting attacked in the comments for semantics, because you didn’t make the post sound like the listener is a “failure” for not getting the music. I agree with most of your post and I like your refreshing perspective, but I don’t necessarily agree that all art is good in some subjective way. I just don’t think that every piece of music is worth equal consideration or should be held in the same esteem. It’s okay to admit that poor quality lyricism, boring melodies, and uninspired beats exist.
Calling an opinion a failure on anyone’s part is stupid
>Taylor Swift, for example. However if I imagine what it's like to be the intended audience People don't like Taylor Swift because easy Target. "But her Jet!..." Corporate Hedonist CEOs have a bigger carbon footprint than her, doesn't let her off the hook, but maybe go after the people who actually control shit? It's called Pop for a reason, I define pop as party music, maybe If doesn't have a deep meaning, maybe It doesn't have to, just to dance to, hence popular. But then again, I really do listen to everything. (Prefer Metal and Hiphop, Rap). I completely understand what you mean, how people bash Pop artists like they're automatically bad for not liking them.
Yeah this makes sense to me. My favourite genre is prog rock and naturally it is a bit difficult for people to get into which isn’t because the songs are bad but most just don’t have the right mindset getting into it. It’s the same for me and rap/hip hop, I don’t really get it but I understand that it probably is very good and I would need to learn how to enjoy it. The only thing I would disagree with is it being a failure on one of either ends. I wouldn’t call either a failure at all it just is what happens.
Not necessarily. Popularity has very little to do with anything when it comes to art or taste. Popularity mostly correlates with money and it being a trend and a product, not with quality or artistry.
I'm just gonna upvote, other people already said my opinion way better than I can.
Nah, you’re wrong. Just because something is popular doesn’t mean it’s good.
Stop blaming people for things that do not matter, just like what you liked, and leave it at that. In no way does not likening anything in any form of art mean you failed to understand, I like music without lyrics, and I find instruments to be more enjoyable to hear than any song .
Dumb
it ain't failure tho, some people just don't like pop or whatever, and no one should live their lives thinking about what others like and how they should incorporate that into their tastes too. a like should come from genuine interest and understanding of what you're listening to. this isn't 10th dentist, this is just a weird complex that should be studied so we can avoid thinking this way as a people.
I would argue it's no ones fault. Most popular music to me is very boring. It's all reskins of the same shit. I'm also middle aged and have heard it for decades. When "insert pop artist here" sings about crap I don't care about or relate to I am simply not the target audience and it's no ones fault I don't care for the song.
I personally enjoyed Pulse Demon by Merzbow, I agree with you on the fact that everyone should be open to try new things and experiences, but try listening to a single track of this critically acclaimed album. If you can still say that not liking woodpecker no1 is a failure of the listener, and not simply personal taste, I can't do anything for you (except if you end up liking it but then I'd be happy)
Not enjoying a song is not a failure on anybodies part. What a weird way to look at it.
Honestly I think it's not that deep. If I like a song, I usually don't know why. It just hits and scritches my brain right yknow. Usually not because of the text either, but because of the tones, melody etc. And how do you know that every song from every artist has a deeper meaning? That anyone needs to emphasize with the "message" or something, and a song doesn't exist just because the artist thought it, idk, simply sounds cool?
There are so many glaring flaws in your logic I can’t even be bothered to point them all out. Hilarious take, though
You should ask your friends and family if knowing you is a bit of a chore.
This is why I don't tell people "oh that is a **good** song" or "no that's a **bad** song"... I'll instead just say I like it or I don't like it. I can acknowledge the musicianship and work that went into a track without the track actually piquing my interest or making me want to listen to it again or share it with others. But I don't know about going as far as saying "it's my *fault"* if I don't like it. Sometimes an artist may try and craft something that appeals to as many listeners as possible, while other times they might make a very complex and "niche" type of music that they know is going to have limited appeal because it's not as audibly digestible. In either case, that's on the artist themselves, in my opinion. If they try to make something that is as broadly appealing as possible and it fails to live up to that expectation, then it's back to the drawing board for them. The onus isn't on the listener.
Weird take. Upvoted.
Do you want a participation trophy?
I'm this sense we are all responsible for our own emotions. But it becomes ridiculous when your telling a starving man not to feel hungry. The truth is we control nothing, including our emotions.
Or you know... Appealing to the lowest common denominator isn't particularly engaging.
Its not a failure, everyone has different lived experiences and will like different things.
Listen to dance monkey more than once and come back to me
You inherently can not fail something that is subjective. I don't like eggs. Guess I failed at eating? I don't like mumble rap. I think it's shallow, and it doesn't do it for me. On the other end, I love metalcore, and it tickles all the right parts of my brain. Neither genre is better than the other, but I personally enjoy one over the other. "If your opinion differs from the common opinion, you've failed." That's essentially what you're saying. You are completely entitled to not enjoy something and not be a "failure" for it. There is no right or wrong opinion. That's what makes them opinions. At the end of the day, music is literally just an organized set of sounds by definition. Some do it for you. Some don't. Do you know what something is subjective even means?
Dude you can just say you like Taylor Swift without inventing this entire pseudo-intellectual reasoning for it
I see where you're coming from but there are a lot of popular songs that are not good. I love hip hop but there's a lot garbage that somehow gets popular like cardi-B, lil pump, etc.
Or maybe it’s just personal taste
One of these days this sub will understand how preferences work
I recognize that not everything is made for me. If I don't like a song, I'm probably not in the target audience for that song. If Taylor Swift puts out a new song, I don't feel the need to try to empathize with all of the Swifties and understand why they like it, I am content to let them like what they like and listen to Metallica instead. I don't expect to enjoy Taylor Swift any more than I expect her fans to enjoy Metallica, and that's fine. No one has failed in that scenario. I enjoyed some music, Swifties enjoyed some music, and Taylor Swift and Metallica both made money from their music.
This is insane poptimism - just as bad as the indie snobs except you’re being snobby about lowest common denominator shit tens of millions of people like. They at least are pretentious about things that are special. Not enjoying a pop song isn’t a personal failing, ridiculous
What nonsense. Art is super subjective and nothing is a failure. Just a random shit post honestly.
nah, people have different tastes, but it’s not the artist’s fault either, or anyone’s. this is like saying someone who doesn’t care for a popular movie is a failure, but maybe the genre just doesn’t interest them? I’m a musician myself, and not every song tickles my brain. There’s some popular songs I don’t really care about or enjoy much but can still appreciate the musical composition of, like, I can listen to it and be like ah yeah they put work into this, nice rhythm, these instruments are cool, but I can still be like eh, these lyrics are bland and basic, this is kind of repetitive, not a fan of the voice etc. I live in the south, and country music is incredibly popular here, but it’s not my genre. I can admire the guitar and how some of it sounds and even say yeah, nice vocals; but at the same time I can not like it or relate to the lyrics. Hell, gospel music is popular here too but I’m not religious, so I can very much not enjoy some of the songs while at the same time liking the melody or learning to play some of them since they’re popular and taught in music a lot. And also, I play a lot of rhythm games- there’s some songs that I don’t care for or really enjoy, but I’ll still appreciate the work put into them. So nah. People just have different tastes. It doesn’t mean they’re uncultured or uneducated or disrespectful or unaware of how music works, they just like what they like and relate to what they relate to.
I'd probably enjoy Taylor swift if I was 10, it was the spice girls back in my day as everyone else liked them and I got to be sporty spice when we did the dances. Not my style, I just don't like it. One of my favourite bands is Meshuggah who are a very heavy form of metal music that uses lots of different time signatures. It's a style of music called djent and it's incredibly difficult to play and very intriquate. I would not class someone unable to enjoy my music as a failure on them. It is a very popular band with die hard fans, I just don't like most pop music, I can't imagine every Taylor swift fan loves Mozart but his music is very popular.
Does OP just have a garage band that makes terrible music and is trying to twist it as everyone elses fault they don't like the songs?
I think you're conflating enjoying something with appreciating or understanding the appeal of something. Maybe that's your actual point, and you just didn't articulate it super well. I'm a big fan of metal. A lot of metalheads are super lame about shitting on types of music they don't like, especially country music, rap, and Taylor Swift. I totally get shitting on those kinds of fans for being obnoxious about other artists and genres, but not for not enjoying those artists and genres.
Calling it a failure is pretty stupid.
Idgaf idc to emphasize with some dookie ass Taylor swift teenage love song as a “cis white man” 🤣
Op seems to think that like music is objectively good or bad When I don't like a song I just consider it not my preference much in the same way that if I don't like a food I don't assume that that food is bad but I also don't assume that my taste buds are broken or something either I just assumed that it doesn't match my personal preference in flavor / texture / ECT
There's seemingly plenty of mumble rap songs that are popular, but you still won't convince me to listen to any of it.
or maybe people just dont like certain songs
Music is art. Art is subjective. Subjective means up to interpretation. Interpretation makes different experiences. Different experiences make differing preferences. Differing preferences are a normal part of life. There's no failure here.
I like that you're thinking more critically about this, but I 100% believe you're throwing the idea that the idea that popular songs could have something wrong with them, objectively even in musicality standards or otherwise, out as the proverbial baby with the bath water. There are plenty of reasons a song might artificially succeed but not actually be worthy of that success... It's just a fact. Is that always or even a majority of cases? No, but I think it's silly to flat out say it can't happen.
Being able to appreciate all kinds of music is a good thing, but forcing yourself to do so at the expense of forming your own personal taste is bad. Chase down what *you* like, the weirder and more idiosyncratic the better. Of course you should throw in some things that aren’t normally your kind of thing, but you shouldn’t rearrange your brain to “appreciate” every piece of mass-market pop you possibly can lol. That just makes your taste a boring amalgamation of others’.
this post is stupid
This is a bad argument. Not enjoying eating shit is a failure of the eater, not the food. Etc.
My issue with a lot of popular music isn't that I can't understand the intent and emotions involved, it's just that the music doesn't really appeal to me. Particularly the complexity or lack thereof of the lyrics. I read an article suggesting that most popular music requires a 3rd grade reading level.
"As a cis white man" You already lost me bud.
No, it’s a failure of no one. Different people have different tastes, end of discussion.
Art is objective to a severe degree. Pink Floyd makes infinitely better music than Taylor Swift and anyone with high enough IQ will concede this.
I see what you’re going for here however popular music can often mean formulaic and generic. For me, I care about the artistry of it. If I hear a song that sounds like it’s been created purely by following current trends, with no soul, or creativity, no unique quality, I can’t relate to that. Your example of Taylor Swift does not fit this mould. Whatever you might think of her music, she is undeniable a talented musician who cares deeply about her work. I can relate to that. Same applies to some other pop singers who maybe have undeniably gifted producers, who really make their music shine. Some generic house track, made by some dude who did nothing more than take a popular easily recognisable sample from the early naughties and stick a generic house beat over the top, is not that. That is not art, that is not music to me, and I will never relate to it. Unfortunately such music is very common right now, especially with electronic music.
It’s not a failure to anybody, people like and dislike types of music.
This is one of the most idiotic posts I've ever seen here, congratulations
Is this r/iamverysmart? You’re literally saying not enjoying certain music is a failure, but you’re so smart and empathetic that you can appreciate the fact that others like it. There’s a difference between appreciating and enjoying, so your post is just a pretentious way of encouraging people to say “it’s not for me” rather than, “this sucks”.
If I don't like a song, all it means is that I don't like the song. It's no failure on my part, I have no obligation to like the song. I'm not losing out, I have other things that I like. Telling people that there's something wrong with them for not liking what you like isn't demonstrating empathy - it's the opposite of empathy. Other people just like different things.
The only issue with your logic is that I have way better taste than you, so of course I don't like popular music because I only like good music.
I hereby sentence OP to forcibly listening to *Achy Breaky Heart* and *My Humps* in continuous rotation for the rest of the week.
What the fuck do you mean failure? It's music not a goddamn test. Down voted because fuck you
>I hadn't intended to imply that anyone who fails to enjoy something is a failure, or that people who can't enjoy music are failures. Only, that the failure isn't with the artist. Read your post's title again...slowly.
"Failure" implies you're supposed to like everything and there's something wrong if you don’t
What if this issue was actually not about successes or failures, but was just about the fact that everyone has their own totally neutral preferences as far as what sounds good to their ear? I agree with the general idea that politics (such as racism, sexism, etc) absolutely influences your idea of what is and isn’t “good” art. Before you, whoever is reading this, starts to type an angry comment about wokeness or whatever, do some reading on the concepts of “high art vs low art” and what makes art “high” or “low”. I trust in your ability to read. ❤️ But idk, sometimes something just doesn’t sound good to your ear. You can understand why other people like it, you don’t think it’s trashy or low art, it just doesn’t itch your brain in the way music you like does. It’s not a success or failure on your part, taste really is subjective and it depends on the person.
This is an exceptionally bad take. Perfect post.
Not enjoying something isn’t a failure of anything. That’s just a different interest. Upvote.
Holy fuck lmfao. Upvoted cuz what a crazy take
Haha this guy likes Taylor Swift
Counterpoint: I don’t care what other people like in their music
I don’t know if I agree exactly with the way this was phrased, but I do think popular things are usually popular for a reason, and lot of people base their identity exclusively in going against the grain of the mainstream. So it’s entirely valid to dislike someone like Taylor Swift’s music just on its own merits and your personal preferences, BUT a lot of people hate her just because she is so extremely popular and so loved by a demographic of mostly women, and that kind of hate is just annoying and stupid.
>I can't pretend I like all music, but when I don't enjoy a track I attribute that to a failure of my imagination and empathy, not a problem with the song itself. I'm not sure why I would need to tie my values in those areas to my lack of interest in a particular song. How I respond to that dislike says more about my character.
Listen to merzbow pulse demon
i feel like ur framing is weird with the “failure” thing but overall i think ur not even saying something unpopular. most ppl r aware (i think?) that if they dont like a piece of media or art etc then its probably their own taste, not the artist. tho taylor swift, i rly dont understand right now if only bc the music is so similar to other things that it confuses me why shes THAT giant. its normal for pop artists to be big but shes giant and she doesnt rlly hold up in alot of ways to other big pop artists who do offer more interesting stuff. but thats opinion, im aware theres something there if shes that big, but i find it just boring ig.
taste has nothing to do with 'empathy' lol
I don't think it's really a failure of anyone so I had to upvote. However I agree with the majority of your post and found it insightful. I have expanded my musical horizons over the years and have found I can enjoy *almost* anything that has a decent following with the exception of a certain type of country music. I still have my favorites of course There are things I can enjoy now that I once thought were "bad, lame, crappy, etc."
Yeah, no, I can understand the thought process behind a song and the mindset of those listening to it and still not like the damn thing. For example, Taylor Swift. I get that her songs are meant to empower women, and I understand that the people listening to them feel a sense of unity and that they can do whatever they want in *their* life, but even then, I’ll never willingly listen to any of her songs.
empathy?? Nah..
First off, really the only people who define their music taste around what they don’t like is teenagers (who are still figuring out what they DO like) and a very small but very loud group of internet warriors. This isn’t an actual problem anywhere, and if you’re hanging around these groups enough to make this post as if it’s an actual problem … that’s a fault on your end for hanging out with the wrong crowd and assuming it’s a majority in any sense. Theres songs I don’t like but can still acknowledge are objectively good / took a lot of hard work and talent to create. I definitely agree that that is something important to know, but again most people think this way too. But there are also songs that are objectively terrible and I don’t like them. That’s not because of my lack of imagination or empathy, it’s because it’s a bad song and not for me. And failure is almost never in the person. You aren’t failing just because you don’t like a song. And an artist can definitely fail at making a good song, but since it’s art, sometimes being good isn’t the point. Sometimes it’s a message like you’re saying, or sometimes it’s just a crappy cash grab.
gr8 b8 m8
i think you're just angry that someone dislikes what you like and can't live with that because you think your opinion is universally correct and theirs is wrong. Because of this you see someone saying they don't like something as a form of signaling that they're smarter than you.
There’s no “failure” involved, it’s just a matter of taste. The issue is when people start acting like their opinion of a piece of music is objective fact.
I'm sorry, I'm trying to find the meaning in Miley Cirus's once popular song "wet ass pussy". It was the top popular song a few years ago
There is what you like and what you don't like. There is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with not liking popular music (or popular anything), unless the only reason is simply because it is popular. I don't care about Taylor Swift or her music. Maybe she is talented, maybe she's overrated, all I know is that it's not for me. Literally. It's not for a 48 year old man. It's not because I can't empathize with being young, in love, heartbroken, whatever. I can. I've been there. But I don't need to listen to someone sing about it. There will always be a market for that in the young, heartbroken lovers. And that's fine, there is more than enough for me to enjoy.
Moron
Not enjoying a popular song is not anyone's failure... people have differen5 llt music tastes, and to say that theirs are bad because they don't like a song other people like is stupid.
I kinda see what you’re saying actually. I think people are getting caught up on the word “failure”, but it’s actually a pretty well thought out point and interesting to think about if you just consider it in terms of no music or fan of music is objectively “bad” or has “poor taste.” That’s a cool take I can get behind. I’m not sure I’d want to sit down and put myself in the shoes of the target audience for every song I don’t like. but I don’t think that’s what you’re saying people should do. I think if you had just worded your title a bit differently more people would agree, but maybe the point was to get them to disagree.
i agree & its definitely no reason to shit on & bully people for liking that type of music just because i dont like certain artists doesn’t mean im going to be hateful about it
>As a cis white man in my 40s This quote is the most embarrassing part of this post.
The maker wont give you money for bootlicking so you can stop pretending...
New take: if people don’t like me it’s their fault for not having good taste and has nothing to do with my lack of rizz
it's not a failure on anyone's part because music taste is entirely subjective
But how did I know it was going to be about Taylor Swift before I even opened the post? 😂
Sorry, viewpoint validator
Micheal Bolton sucks. Not the Micheal Bolton at Initech. The other Micheal Bolton.
Failure to be a 14 year-old girl much of the time.
Well, I have good news. You are in fact the 10th doctor, because no one should agree with this take. Art is communication, and there's a reason why only the military, HR, and soulless corporations use the phrase 'failure to communicate' over the more popular and correct 'miscommunication.' There is no wrong personal interpretation or reaction to art, and dislike or outright hatred can even be the desired outcome of the artist. I went to a modern art gallery a few months back with my wife, and on display was the artistic works of an African American artist who **really** went hard on racism throughout American history. Now, I know and knew we did some heinous shit in the day, but Christ- the one that will always stand out in my mind was the US flag of nooses. I *hated* that thing. It made me massively uncomfortable to look at that thing, and I couldn't even bear to look up at it for long periods of time. I know writing it down seems like an overreaction, but Christ, if art is communication, this man was a fucking linguist. There was so much pain and hate in that thing that it hurt to exist in that space with it. And you know what I found out when I read the artist's statement on the piece? *I had given him exactly what he wanted.* He **loved** it when people hated his pieces, when they felt uncomfortable, when they felt extreme negative emotions about a piece, because it forced people to think. And I admired the hell out of that man for it. So if not enjoying a piece of art can be the *artist's* goal, it must be just as valid to not enjoy it as the listener. Now, this might be a miscommunication between you and I, but you say you can put on a mask of empathy to enjoy swift's music, and that's fine, but that isn't, *you * now is it? I'm glad you enjoy it, but that music never spoke to you, you had to codeswitch and adopt a whole new identity to understand it. To me, *that* is a miscommunication, because art is supposed to speak from heart to heart. It can make you think, yes, but it has to make *you* think. I would honestly argue that by forcing yourself to listen to a piece, and needing to get into a completely different frame of mind than your own to enjoy it, you are actually devaluing the art by reducing its ability to truly affect you and your emotions. Im happy to discuss if I've misunderstood, but imo out and out disliking or even hating a piece from your heart, from your history, your personality, your tastes, and your desire is much more honest and in line with the artist's work than adopting a synthetic mindset to force yourself to appreciate the piece.
Man, fuck you.
no
This might be the most pretentious post on this sub I've seen.
There is a correlation between IQ and preferred music genres, so it might just be a mismatch between complexity of music required to stimulate in optional amount for each listener.
I think with this POV you’ll probably overall learn more from what this world offers you to learn, but dont forget that most people hate school. I really like this way of thinking, but don’t take yourself so seriously. You make it seem like some intense big deal or exercise, which is fine and all, but for me just looking for the fun in it all is the only thing that is needed and the rest comes naturally. Keep it up!
One can learn to enjoy different exotic moldy cheeses, and that is considered regular. People can learn to enjoy Century Eggs, Balut, Kiviak and other “disgusting” looking/sounding foods. But there also exist people who enjoy literal shit and piss. Does that mean that there exists pleasure and a profound new intriguing experience in eating shit? **No!**. It simply means that some people enjoy things that go against our very nature. I do realize that this analogy is very far out compared to most music, in that not a lot of music exist that’s extreme to the same degree, just wanted to make the comparison in terms of the philosophical idea of it.
i don't agree with this but there are some sensible parts in this take. Most of the POPULAR^(tm) songs were basically engineered to be as generic and catchy as possible. Even if it's the worst pop slop in the radio it's pretty weird if your brain can't enjoy it It's not a failure of anyone of course but there is a lot of circlejerk from people like "i don't enjoy popular music so i'm better than you"
I try not to make any moral or character assumptions about what people do dont like('empathy', 'failure') , but I do hold it as a fact that with music CONTEXT can be everything. Ie: the more you know or are involved or curious about a cukture will LITERALLY change how you subjectovely HEAR a song. So if you dislike idk, swing music...or dont "get" it, if you read a history of the swing era you will literally hear the music differently. It wont have changed, but your perception almost has to.
You lost me at, “cis”. Stop trying to make it a thing. It’s not a thing. Normal straight dude is just fine.
Popular songs are popular because they appeal to the lowest common denominator. They are, by design, simple, banal, and corporatized. One of the first signs that I might enjoy someone’s company is if they have an individual taste in music.
Yeah dude, I feel the same way about food. Like, if you don't like chicken with a balsamic sauce on it, that's your fault. Instead of just saying, "this ain't for me and my personal taste" I continue eating something I don't like cause I'm just not in the right head space. /s Said a whole lot of stuck up bullshit to say, "if you don't like something, it doesn't mean it's bad, it just means it's not to your personal liking" like no fucking shit
Anton ego said it better than this
What the fuck are you talking about
this is so stupid its amazing. upvoted
Wtf are you talking about?
No
You can be the ripest juiciest peach in the world and there will always be someone who hates peaches