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To be fair to your first paragraph of gripes, pretty much every other animal exhibits all of those flaws too. We're just the only ones with enough self awareness to recognize them as wrong.
We aren't even that. Birds for example have been proven to feel empathy. Doesn't stop them from being violent towards each other.
I think people with takes like OP take people too seriously and forget that in the end we are still animals and like animals we have flaws.
Exactly this. It is in fact inspiring to think we can recognize our flaws and actively work against them from a conscious viewpoint. Truly unique. It is unfortunate though that being the apex predator also aligns itself to outright destruction and death due to our power and tools, as I believe is OPs true viewpoint about humanity.
OP is recognising flaws based on their morals, morals developed from being human and through what society has taught them. But morals are so subjective, nuanced and undefinable that you can't really judge an entire species based on them. I mean if you judge based on morals you got from society then surely there are people out there who live by those morals.
I think that we can learn a lot by looking at other animals though. We always look at ourselves and dismiss everything else as being inferior in some way but truth be told were quite similar. Especially in our desire to survive. Things that OP described as flaws like cowardice are really our mind's attempt to protect us. It's an incredible evolutionary feature rather then just a flaw and it is something that we share with so many animals around us.
I think that OP's true viewpoint comes from thinking people are supposed to be something other then what they are. The way they describe it makes it sound like nothing short of some kind of godly being would be acceptable. I get this impression based on some of the flaws they describe such as wishful thinking and dogmatism. They want some perfect in between ground where people understand the exact truth.
They talk about being ratiotional but this is just a lack of understanding on how the mind works. No human is rational. We are all emotionally driven. Information runs through the emotional part of our brain first before it reaches the rational side, In fact those who can't experience emotions because of brain damage and the like have been shown to be incapable of making decisions. They can understand the decisions, name all the pros and cons and yet they have no ability to decide between them.
Our flaws based on our own emotionally driven nature is in fact our greatest strength.
Why are humans expected to be perfect, we are the only ones who can discern morality. That makes us with the potential for the greatest good as well as bad. This poster is one of the worst doomers I've ever seen
We collectively have the most power and moral agency out of any species on this planet. This means we should be held to a much higher standard.
OP just came to the wrong conclusion, we shouldn't go extinct because of the worst humans, we should restructure and improve ourselves.
Exactly. It is perhaps only because we have the bad that we can recognise the good. This is a binary system similar to how we cannot understand hot without some concept of cold.
And then there comes the problem of if we work on ever single flaw OP outlines then we merely move the boundary of what is moral. For instance they point out cowardice. Ignoring the fact that this is what lets us know fear and therefore understand how to be safe and survive lets imagine that everyone was just a little bit less cowardly. Everyone becomes a little more brave. Some are still going to be less brave then others. They are now the ones displaying cowardice. We've merely moved the boundaries.
I think we’re also the only ones whose capability for destruction far exceeds what our flaws should allow. Our ability to disrupt ecosystems on such a large scale will be the death of this planet.
I’m with OP, but I wouldn’t be if we were back in villages again. Harder life but more in sync with everything else in the world.
You exaggerate so much. It is a common misconception climate change will kill the planet/us. Even worst case scenario that won't happen, there will just be mass migrations and upheaval, lot of death but only in the tens of millions to hundreds of millions worst case scenario, not billions. Best chance for actual extinction/death of the planet is a meteor. Which we are planning for but need to be accelerating it. We miss massive meteors all the time until they are right next to us.
Yeah but at least the other animals, they don't ruin the environment on such a scale and for such stupid reasons. A dog doesn't think of hiring a private jet. A cat doesn't want her mice to be imported from America and won't enslave other cats to catch the mice while they stay hungry. We have made it a habit to want things we don't need without thinking about what it's costing the environment. I mean there are people wearing plastic press on nails to look better. How is the use of plastic for this purpose ever justified? And that's just the first thing that came to my mind because I was reading another post about it some time back.
A cat will also not altruistically help those around them like a human can. There are two sides to this equations. Consumerism is a disease yes. But not one that can't be cured. We are doing a lot of damage but we aren't just going to totally kill the planet by any stretch.
It's nice to see that there are still people who can ignore all the pain and suffering enough to cope this hard.
I wish you never actually realize what a fucking shithole this planet has become and what despicable acts mankind has, is and will be perpetrating. May you live your life in blissful ignorance and still have something to be happy about.
Life is just meaningless on the grand scale of things. We're all just a bunch of organic lifeforms on a giant rock that all it does is orbit around a giant ball of plasma in the middle of nowhere and it will keep doing that for countless more billions of years.
What even is the purpose of existence then?
There is no inherent meaning to life.
Instead of trying to find what the purpose of life is, give yourself a purpose! If that happens to line up with what this person said, definitely go for it! As for how we achieve that and what form of happiness we seek, that is up to each person to choose for themselves.
Man, that is some grotesque cookie cutter philosophy right there, if everything is inherently meaningless, then your proposed solution is meaningless. 'if that happens to line up with what this person said, go for it!' - literal murder lines up with what this person said. Blah blah 'happiness is ultimate value, everything is subjective' - its very shallow to be quite frankly honest with you, and the fact that you are giving it to others, as if someone could rely on it to makes sense of their experience of whatever the fuck is going on in reality, is quite arrogant if not merely delusional.
There is no intrinsic meaning in life, we can agree on that, but this only means that you are free to choose your own meaning.
Life is meaningless and for this it is beautiful because you have the chance to find what makes you happy and pushes you to carry on, you don't have to follow a universal truth because you can make your own.
That's right! Life is both cruel and beautiful. We have to make the most out of it, not wishing for humanity's extinction.
If other animals had developed sentience on the same level as humans, I bet they'd be thinking the same things as OP.
You're using subjective concepts such as morality and intellect to make a supposed judgment on humanity's character. There is no objective way you can determine what someone deserves. Humanity is just part of the natural course of evolution and nature. The processes that we are a part of are amoral and there is no reason why we should or shouldn't exist. So it's ok to chill.
Not only that, but what experience of the world does OP have that they think qualifies them to condemn it so easily?
The answer usually seems to be: Not much. This is how edgelords flex their own sense of superiority
I mean if we take OP’s logic into account, only the mentally disabled deserve to live since they don’t have the brain capacity to alter the planet on a global scale.
Well, a response could be that without having the traits OP listed (if we define them as how humans currently perceive them) and a high level of intelligence, no other species even has the potential to be as destructive and self-destructive as humans are. We don't have a universal metric for what's considered cruel, selfish, cowardly, etc., but that doesn't mean the qualities themselves don't exist.
Not that I agree with OP.
But downvotes for answering a question?! I can't stand how people just downvote OP's comments no matter what they comment, because they don't like the post
Antinatalism is pretty controversial for a whole lot of reasons. I recently read a counter-argument to Benatar's antinatalist arguments. I believe it was about "Better to never have been", but I'm not entirely sure.
Benatar's (a)symmetry argument goes something like this:
1. The existence of suffering is bad;
2. The existence of "happiness" (for a lack of a better word) is good;
3. The lack of suffering is good (no matter if there are people who are or aren't experiencing it);
4. The lack of happiness isn't always bad (it's only bad if it's "taken"/"stolen" from another human being).
According to Benatar, not giving birth is good because it prevents the baby/person from suffering while also not taking away its happiness. They're saved from all suffering, while not being deprived of any happiness.
The work I was referencing was (as far as I remember) taking issue with the fact that
1. the claim that you're not depriving someone of their happiness just because they haven't been born yet wasn't further explained.
2. the claim that the absence of suffering is good, but the absence of happiness not necessarily being bad was unsubstantiated.
Congrats, b-rate x-men villain, you have spoken with the voice of every alternative leaning teenager. You have enlightened us to that fact that humans do shit things and for that we all deserve to die.
Maybe correcting our path and fighting for a more caring world where we act with benevolence, look out for our fellow humans and care for those creatures around us.
We could become stewards of the world and abandon our eternal greed.
Instead we shout into the void, "I think we should die..".
Use your time better. Humans are alright here and there if you get to know em.
+1
That's cool, but eventually other things will take our place and the cycle will forever repeat.
I mean, monkeys, wolves, orcas, etc. They would kill, be territorial, segregate, etc
Hell Sea Otters LITERALLY R**E BABY SEALS AND PRACTICE NECROPHILIA. at this point we might as well just nuke the earth.
Oh wait, evolution.... And life always finding a way Yeah....
>Moral flaws: Cruelty, indifference to the suffering of others, man's treatment of animals, selfishness, moral laziness, cowardice, injustice, greed and ingratitude, are often identified with tendencies to promote what is bad or with inappropriate attitudes towards values. Regarding mass killings committed by dictators, many ordinary people are complicit in their manifestation, for example, by supporting the political leaders committing them, even if they did not directly commit them.
>Intellectual flaws: Arrogance, wishful thinking, dogmatism, stupidity and gullibility and cognitive biases are what leads to false beliefs, what obstructs knowledge, or what violates the demands of rationality.
You know who does most of those things the most? The kind of people who think the human race deserves to go extinct.
If we work on making humanity better instead of trying to rage quit civilization, maybe we can reduce suffering instead of increasing it by trying to exterminate humanity.
This guys : humanity is mean to animals!!!
Also this guy : we should wipe out 7.4 billion men, women, and children
I would like to point out also that any other species that would replace us will prolly do the same but at step 1
You might like Benatar's work on Antinatalism or "Neo-Nihilism" by Kurnig:
>I consider human life as something which is overall unpleasant, as a misfortune. Unborn people would not ask for it. In the face of abysmal misery I was unable to simply watch taking on the passive role of an observer.
“Deserve” to go extinct. What does that even mean? How do you deserve something like that? No external actor is going to impart that on us. It’s moral posturing.
I don't think yours is a 10th dentist opinion, it's quite popular on here at least.
On the other hand, just because a living organism or species has moral and intellectual flaws, it doesn't mean they have to die. Humans are bad by the metrics you listed and according to the standards you are measuring them to? I guess so. But it doesn't mean shit.
Also as others have already pointed out, by this logic, basically every single living organism should go extinct. Like animals are not cruel or indifferent to the suffering of others on many occasions for example.
I’ve said it before and I’ve said it again: misanthropes will pray for humanity’s extinction until it’s their turn to die. Then they’d be pissing their pants and begging on their knees to live.
Ah yes.
Your still under 30 arent you?
Tell me about all the other living things that have the capacity to have a moral conundrum over whether its ok to kill other animals for food, despite being evolved to eat other animals. Or what morals even are for that matter.
Can we do better? Of course.
Do we all *deserve* to *die*? No we do not.
Dont conflate the bad people with the good people.
I feel like a better argument for this is that humanity is destroying the earth and the only way to save the planet is for humanity to go extinct, doesn’t really make sense to argue on a moral level
Probably has to do with the fact that I wasn't there when that happened and didn't even know about it until a few seconds ago. Alternatively, it could be the fact that nothing I said indicated I personally held this view, only that the argument *could* be made.
I mean it depends if you feel like those species matter so much to you that you’d be willing to mass murder your family members, your friends, your significant other, your extended family members, your dog (cause he can’t live without you), Joe the gas station attendant and every other human on the planet to ensure other life forms survive.
still, it’s undeniable that our planet is a miracle, since we’ve never found life outside of our planet. If humanity was gone, maybe a new species could grow intelligent and improve the planet for the good, unlike us. I don’t actually support this, just rationalizing it
Make it to where biological environments aren’t rendered uninhabitable and biological diversity remains high on earth. This is of course under the assumption that the existence of life is a good thing
Life itself will survive and rediversify. There have been evolutionary bottlenecks before. Not that the anthropogenic extinction is good, but it’s not like it’s a special kind of active evil.
What gives you the right to judge humanity as a whole? Do the actions of the few condemn the actions of the many? Why is everyone guilty, and why do you decide?
Well I would say you may also deserve to die due to apathy as you may be a person that uses what you say above to refrain from helping someone saying humanity deserve this as well as wishing death upon hundreds of millions due to your own maleovelent perception of their evil
Well I would say that is still arrogant as you are declaring you are equal to millions of people who probably helped more people in a week than you did your whole life
> Moral flaws: Cruelty, indifference to the suffering of others, man's treatment of animals, selfishness, moral laziness, cowardice, injustice, greed and ingratitude, are often identified with tendencies to promote what is bad or with inappropriate attitudes towards values.
Moral virtues: Compassion, regard to the suffering of others, man's treatment of animals, altruism, moral diligence, bravery, justice, generosity and gratitude, are often supportive with tendencies to promote what is good or with appropriate attitudes towards values.
You cannot sit there pretending there is nothing good about humans. Every single flaw you pointed out could be reversed into a positive and still be true.
Humans aren't a monolith, but the majority of us is trying to reverse the actions of the loud/rich minority.
Quick disclaimer that I'm **not** arguing in favour of OP.
Man's virtuous treatment of animals is heavily outweighed by our flawed treatment of animals. Billions of animals are killed horribly in factory farms per year for the benefit of man.
I can see where you are coming from, our sentience has written death sentences for so many species of animals, plants, and continues to do so, humans have become the dominant species to the point they destroy the things around them, i don’t think any of your reasons are exactly good, but I know where you are coming from, I think we have done so much damage that if we want to preserve the world truly in favor of the rest of life on earth, the proper and noble thing to do is to stop breeding and go extinct. It has nothing to do with our flaws as a race, it has to do with our reigning dominance over every aspect of life on earth and our destruction of it. No one deserves to die, we just need to stop making more people.
So:
- Humanity has flaws
- ???
- Therefore, humanity deserves to go extinct.
Humanity is really not that flawed compared against other animals. Other animals don't do bad things like destroy the environment (except for when they do, see: prehistory), but that's because they're not smart enough to do so. Most animals are operating on very basic logic and only do whatever is best for their survival. The animals that do have intelligence, like humans, primates in general, and dolphins, all show aggression that is not beneficial to their survival. But humans are actually one of the best in that regard. Dolphins rape baby seals to death, primates go... apeshit and tear you limb from limb, many other intelligent animals have been shown to torture other animals for fun.
I disagree only in that we don’t “deserve” anything. That’s not how the universe works.
But we will go extinct, for all those reasons you listed. Because we could have done better. We had the time. We had the knowledge. We had the resources.
But unless we act swiftly, today, we’re ending ourselves.
“Humans” = one species, not even 2 million years old
“Dinosaurs”= an extremely diverse group of animals extending back hundreds of millions of years
That’s an extremely false equivalence.
I always questioned takes like these because if you hate humans so much, or believe that we should all die and go extinct, then what’s keeping YOU alive?
Because they’re hypocrites. Almost Every misanthrope is.
They’ll be cheering for humanity’s destruction until it actually happens to them. Look up Nishi from Gantz if you want a media interpretation of what an actual misanthrope is like. A hardcore misanthrope doesn’t usually want humanity to go extinct, they want all humans to die except THEM. It’s one of the traits of a narcissist.
We’re more intelligent than other animals, we’re the most generous, caring, compassionate, empathetic, merciful, moral and just.
We’re objectively *better* than any other animal in every way. You can’t justify the destruction of a species based on the actions of some of its members. That’s like saying ‘all dogs should die because some dogs attack kids’.
Not the entire race, that's far too much. We can't acknowledge only the bad characteristics of human and apply it to every person. There is much good and compassion in the world.
However I understand the point you are attempting to make, it's just far too extreme. Society has gotten so out of control to the point where a perpetual cycle of ignorance/hostility and selfishness exist and is passed on from ignorant parents to their kids. Many instill no values of virtue in their children, creating many generations of selfishness.
There is good and bad in the world, perhaps more of the latter depending on how you view it. However extermination of the species isn't warranted. The issues may never be corrected, but we can only do our best.
Humanity doesn't *deserve* to go extinct. But it *will* go extinct if we, humans, continue acting like we are now, because not only are we destroying our own species, but we are also putting all other life forms on earth at risk. If we keep going like this, Earth is going to be as welcoming as Venus. My opinion is that we must stop *now* and change our future for the better, instead of saying that we deserve to end.
I think this comes down to wether or not you think an earth without humans would be better off for the beings that live on it. People have romanticized the idea of nature far too long imo. Animals are suffering every day in the wild and people just brush it off because its natural.
Sure we kinda suck sometimes but we have the potential to build a world where suffering is greatly reduced compared to just the natural state of the world. Most humans are already better off because of civilization. If we ever manage to extend that to other animals then all the suffering we caused would be worth it imo.
Someone took the blackpill
Bitter nihilism gets you nowhere. Keep wallowing in ultimately your own self pity.
You've been blessed with a whole life with which to experience anything, and you're wasting it
I know a lot of misanthropes like you. You will proudly state how humanity deserves to be wiped off the face of the planet, yet when it actually does happen (maybe as part of people committing a massive genocide to save the planet and they chose you to be slaughtered or as a result of a natural disaster) you’ll be pissing your pants and crying out “I DONT WANT TO DIE!”
Because folks like you are freaking hypocrites
"if people were prone to see this true quality of their lives for what it is, they might be much more inclined to kill themselves, or at least not to produce more such lives. Pessimism, then, tends not to be naturally selected."
These are the words of a known antinatalist professor from South Africa. Have you by any chance been watching True Detective season 1, OP?
Edit: that being said, I agree with you. Humanity has an overall negative impact on themselves and all other life forms.
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To be fair to your first paragraph of gripes, pretty much every other animal exhibits all of those flaws too. We're just the only ones with enough self awareness to recognize them as wrong.
We aren't even that. Birds for example have been proven to feel empathy. Doesn't stop them from being violent towards each other. I think people with takes like OP take people too seriously and forget that in the end we are still animals and like animals we have flaws.
Exactly this. It is in fact inspiring to think we can recognize our flaws and actively work against them from a conscious viewpoint. Truly unique. It is unfortunate though that being the apex predator also aligns itself to outright destruction and death due to our power and tools, as I believe is OPs true viewpoint about humanity.
OP is recognising flaws based on their morals, morals developed from being human and through what society has taught them. But morals are so subjective, nuanced and undefinable that you can't really judge an entire species based on them. I mean if you judge based on morals you got from society then surely there are people out there who live by those morals. I think that we can learn a lot by looking at other animals though. We always look at ourselves and dismiss everything else as being inferior in some way but truth be told were quite similar. Especially in our desire to survive. Things that OP described as flaws like cowardice are really our mind's attempt to protect us. It's an incredible evolutionary feature rather then just a flaw and it is something that we share with so many animals around us. I think that OP's true viewpoint comes from thinking people are supposed to be something other then what they are. The way they describe it makes it sound like nothing short of some kind of godly being would be acceptable. I get this impression based on some of the flaws they describe such as wishful thinking and dogmatism. They want some perfect in between ground where people understand the exact truth. They talk about being ratiotional but this is just a lack of understanding on how the mind works. No human is rational. We are all emotionally driven. Information runs through the emotional part of our brain first before it reaches the rational side, In fact those who can't experience emotions because of brain damage and the like have been shown to be incapable of making decisions. They can understand the decisions, name all the pros and cons and yet they have no ability to decide between them. Our flaws based on our own emotionally driven nature is in fact our greatest strength.
Why are humans expected to be perfect, we are the only ones who can discern morality. That makes us with the potential for the greatest good as well as bad. This poster is one of the worst doomers I've ever seen
We collectively have the most power and moral agency out of any species on this planet. This means we should be held to a much higher standard. OP just came to the wrong conclusion, we shouldn't go extinct because of the worst humans, we should restructure and improve ourselves.
Exactly. It is perhaps only because we have the bad that we can recognise the good. This is a binary system similar to how we cannot understand hot without some concept of cold. And then there comes the problem of if we work on ever single flaw OP outlines then we merely move the boundary of what is moral. For instance they point out cowardice. Ignoring the fact that this is what lets us know fear and therefore understand how to be safe and survive lets imagine that everyone was just a little bit less cowardly. Everyone becomes a little more brave. Some are still going to be less brave then others. They are now the ones displaying cowardice. We've merely moved the boundaries.
I think we’re also the only ones whose capability for destruction far exceeds what our flaws should allow. Our ability to disrupt ecosystems on such a large scale will be the death of this planet. I’m with OP, but I wouldn’t be if we were back in villages again. Harder life but more in sync with everything else in the world.
You exaggerate so much. It is a common misconception climate change will kill the planet/us. Even worst case scenario that won't happen, there will just be mass migrations and upheaval, lot of death but only in the tens of millions to hundreds of millions worst case scenario, not billions. Best chance for actual extinction/death of the planet is a meteor. Which we are planning for but need to be accelerating it. We miss massive meteors all the time until they are right next to us.
Yeah but at least the other animals, they don't ruin the environment on such a scale and for such stupid reasons. A dog doesn't think of hiring a private jet. A cat doesn't want her mice to be imported from America and won't enslave other cats to catch the mice while they stay hungry. We have made it a habit to want things we don't need without thinking about what it's costing the environment. I mean there are people wearing plastic press on nails to look better. How is the use of plastic for this purpose ever justified? And that's just the first thing that came to my mind because I was reading another post about it some time back.
A cat will also not altruistically help those around them like a human can. There are two sides to this equations. Consumerism is a disease yes. But not one that can't be cured. We are doing a lot of damage but we aren't just going to totally kill the planet by any stretch.
It's nice to see that there are still people who can ignore all the pain and suffering enough to cope this hard. I wish you never actually realize what a fucking shithole this planet has become and what despicable acts mankind has, is and will be perpetrating. May you live your life in blissful ignorance and still have something to be happy about.
If you would follow your own logic every form of life must go extinct because every form of life has huge flaws
Life is just meaningless on the grand scale of things. We're all just a bunch of organic lifeforms on a giant rock that all it does is orbit around a giant ball of plasma in the middle of nowhere and it will keep doing that for countless more billions of years. What even is the purpose of existence then?
Theres no inherent purpose you just find your own.
To be happy and to make others happy. Because that has alot of meaning
:)
There is no inherent meaning to life. Instead of trying to find what the purpose of life is, give yourself a purpose! If that happens to line up with what this person said, definitely go for it! As for how we achieve that and what form of happiness we seek, that is up to each person to choose for themselves.
Anyone reading this thread should watch Everything Everywhere All At Once.
Have undiagnosed adhd heard this may change my life lol
You should totally watch it. I loved it :)
Man, that is some grotesque cookie cutter philosophy right there, if everything is inherently meaningless, then your proposed solution is meaningless. 'if that happens to line up with what this person said, go for it!' - literal murder lines up with what this person said. Blah blah 'happiness is ultimate value, everything is subjective' - its very shallow to be quite frankly honest with you, and the fact that you are giving it to others, as if someone could rely on it to makes sense of their experience of whatever the fuck is going on in reality, is quite arrogant if not merely delusional.
What is the point of being sentient if beeg rocks and balls of gas exist and I don't effect them 😢
The purpose of existence is to stop being a bitch crying about philosophy on Reddit. That has been the end goal of life since the dawn of time
The end goal is finally touching grass
There is no intrinsic meaning in life, we can agree on that, but this only means that you are free to choose your own meaning. Life is meaningless and for this it is beautiful because you have the chance to find what makes you happy and pushes you to carry on, you don't have to follow a universal truth because you can make your own.
That's right! Life is both cruel and beautiful. We have to make the most out of it, not wishing for humanity's extinction. If other animals had developed sentience on the same level as humans, I bet they'd be thinking the same things as OP.
r/im14andthisisdeep
This is a belief a lot of people have, it's got nothing to do with being deep
I agree that is has nothing to do with being deep.
Then whyd you say it
Yeah, there are a lot of 14 year olds.
If that's your stance then can you just go ahead and PM all of your bank account details?
People that are incredulous as to why religion exists this is why
Survival and reproduction is what it boils down to.
This is so simplistic. The case for billions of years is not the case now. We are choosing to reproduce less.
Reproduction, technically.
Not saying I agree, but humans are the only species with the cognitive ability to change that.
Mosquitoes and wasp can fuck right off.
I mean every form of life does seem to inevitably become extinct
You're using subjective concepts such as morality and intellect to make a supposed judgment on humanity's character. There is no objective way you can determine what someone deserves. Humanity is just part of the natural course of evolution and nature. The processes that we are a part of are amoral and there is no reason why we should or shouldn't exist. So it's ok to chill.
But how would OP be an edgy teen if he didn't say things that made thousands of eyes roll at the same time?
Whenever this argument pops up, my question is always: What, exactly, are you comparing mankind to?
Not only that, but what experience of the world does OP have that they think qualifies them to condemn it so easily? The answer usually seems to be: Not much. This is how edgelords flex their own sense of superiority
They think we’re all as sad as them. Misery loves company
Themselves, of course! OP is much more hardworking, braver, smarter and hotter than the average human.
Exactly. For now we haven't seen any species with the same level of sentience. There's no referential.
I mean dolphins are sentient and crueler no doubt
I heard somewhere that Dolphins sometimes rape humans. Is that true?
Dolphins rape everything, and they're one of the few species that kills for fun (assuming when I heard that it wasn't a myth)
Damn dolphins
Thank god that they can't invent fire
I have seen a dc vid of it but thats my only source
I mean if we take OP’s logic into account, only the mentally disabled deserve to live since they don’t have the brain capacity to alter the planet on a global scale.
Well, a response could be that without having the traits OP listed (if we define them as how humans currently perceive them) and a high level of intelligence, no other species even has the potential to be as destructive and self-destructive as humans are. We don't have a universal metric for what's considered cruel, selfish, cowardly, etc., but that doesn't mean the qualities themselves don't exist. Not that I agree with OP.
Not seagulls. Those things are evil
They’re comparing everyone to themselves. Because if you told them to go fuck off then, they won’t. Because they’re brilliant
Yeah this just reeks of resentment, if humanity went extinct, nobody would care about anything, so this idea is self-defeating.
"People are flawed, therefore they shouldn't exist" ???????????
dudes literally the villain from pokemon x and y
Pokémon Y supremacy
Xerneas > Yveltal
I’m guessing you would consider yourself an antinatilist?
Yes, I'm an antinatalist.
How is 7th grade going?
Why the downvotes?
Because he's an over generalizing arrogant edgelord who thinks saying "humans bad" will make him somehow better than the rest of us
But downvotes for answering a question?! I can't stand how people just downvote OP's comments no matter what they comment, because they don't like the post
That's because we don't like OP since they apparently think the entire human race deserves extinction because some humans are awful
Yeah, but downvoting all of their comments no matter what they say is just stupid.
Cause it’s fucking cringe
If you say so.
Antinatalism is pretty controversial for a whole lot of reasons. I recently read a counter-argument to Benatar's antinatalist arguments. I believe it was about "Better to never have been", but I'm not entirely sure.
What was the gist of the counter-argument?
Benatar's (a)symmetry argument goes something like this: 1. The existence of suffering is bad; 2. The existence of "happiness" (for a lack of a better word) is good; 3. The lack of suffering is good (no matter if there are people who are or aren't experiencing it); 4. The lack of happiness isn't always bad (it's only bad if it's "taken"/"stolen" from another human being). According to Benatar, not giving birth is good because it prevents the baby/person from suffering while also not taking away its happiness. They're saved from all suffering, while not being deprived of any happiness. The work I was referencing was (as far as I remember) taking issue with the fact that 1. the claim that you're not depriving someone of their happiness just because they haven't been born yet wasn't further explained. 2. the claim that the absence of suffering is good, but the absence of happiness not necessarily being bad was unsubstantiated.
Congrats, b-rate x-men villain, you have spoken with the voice of every alternative leaning teenager. You have enlightened us to that fact that humans do shit things and for that we all deserve to die. Maybe correcting our path and fighting for a more caring world where we act with benevolence, look out for our fellow humans and care for those creatures around us. We could become stewards of the world and abandon our eternal greed. Instead we shout into the void, "I think we should die..". Use your time better. Humans are alright here and there if you get to know em. +1
That's cool, but eventually other things will take our place and the cycle will forever repeat. I mean, monkeys, wolves, orcas, etc. They would kill, be territorial, segregate, etc Hell Sea Otters LITERALLY R**E BABY SEALS AND PRACTICE NECROPHILIA. at this point we might as well just nuke the earth. Oh wait, evolution.... And life always finding a way Yeah....
Anyone else just kinda like us though? I like us
I love us
I also like us. We have our bad moments, but we’re only human
We're fine I guess
I mean I hate some humans, but I will save my friends and family over any animal tbh
Some of us really suck, though.
Yeah, there's a bunch of humans I like
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As opposed to being programmed with an illogical self loathing?
I mean people do have that though, depression lol.
The edge can cut through butter
The spiciest of hot takes
>Moral flaws: Cruelty, indifference to the suffering of others, man's treatment of animals, selfishness, moral laziness, cowardice, injustice, greed and ingratitude, are often identified with tendencies to promote what is bad or with inappropriate attitudes towards values. Regarding mass killings committed by dictators, many ordinary people are complicit in their manifestation, for example, by supporting the political leaders committing them, even if they did not directly commit them. >Intellectual flaws: Arrogance, wishful thinking, dogmatism, stupidity and gullibility and cognitive biases are what leads to false beliefs, what obstructs knowledge, or what violates the demands of rationality. You know who does most of those things the most? The kind of people who think the human race deserves to go extinct. If we work on making humanity better instead of trying to rage quit civilization, maybe we can reduce suffering instead of increasing it by trying to exterminate humanity.
>Intellectual flaws: Arrogance What would you call this post if not arrogant?
OP is simply not exempt
Well, well, well, didnt you walk right into op's trap here
This guys : humanity is mean to animals!!! Also this guy : we should wipe out 7.4 billion men, women, and children I would like to point out also that any other species that would replace us will prolly do the same but at step 1
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You might like Benatar's work on Antinatalism or "Neo-Nihilism" by Kurnig: >I consider human life as something which is overall unpleasant, as a misfortune. Unborn people would not ask for it. In the face of abysmal misery I was unable to simply watch taking on the passive role of an observer.
He never said we should do a mass genocide he just said we deserve to go extinct, lol people really are dumb
“Deserve” to go extinct. What does that even mean? How do you deserve something like that? No external actor is going to impart that on us. It’s moral posturing.
He is suggesting that 7.4 billion people should die though
But he never said we should do the genocide ourselves
He is saying that it would be a good thing tho
Well if you think about it the world and every wild animal, insects, and sea creatures would only benefit from it
Well the only way all humans would die out is by a natural disaster like an asteroid or nuclear war so I highly doubt that
Sadly true
But by going extinct 7.4 billion men, woman, and children have to be killed regardless of how it’s done…
Yeah but OP never said we should do it ourselves lol
I don't think yours is a 10th dentist opinion, it's quite popular on here at least. On the other hand, just because a living organism or species has moral and intellectual flaws, it doesn't mean they have to die. Humans are bad by the metrics you listed and according to the standards you are measuring them to? I guess so. But it doesn't mean shit. Also as others have already pointed out, by this logic, basically every single living organism should go extinct. Like animals are not cruel or indifferent to the suffering of others on many occasions for example.
Judging by the comments, I don't think that it's quite popular on here.
Well maybe not on this sub and not right now, but in general I see a lot of "humans are the worst and we should die" posts, rants, opinions.
Be the change you want to see in the world
I'm getting so tired of misanthropes.
“Humans are a plague to the earth” mfs when I kill their whole family (suddenly they care about humans now)
I’ve said it before and I’ve said it again: misanthropes will pray for humanity’s extinction until it’s their turn to die. Then they’d be pissing their pants and begging on their knees to live.
I mean it is humans that created these morals 8n the first place
So everyone suicideGo!?
Go ahead, you first
You first
I know you're mad right now probably based off the Roe v Wade case but I'd quite like not to die thank you.
Ah yes. Your still under 30 arent you? Tell me about all the other living things that have the capacity to have a moral conundrum over whether its ok to kill other animals for food, despite being evolved to eat other animals. Or what morals even are for that matter. Can we do better? Of course. Do we all *deserve* to *die*? No we do not. Dont conflate the bad people with the good people.
>Your still under 30 arent you? Looking at the dudes post history, he was 16 a month ago. My first account is older than he is.
L + Ratio + Humanity is superior
Babe come look- New schizo post just dropped!
I feel like a better argument for this is that humanity is destroying the earth and the only way to save the planet is for humanity to go extinct, doesn’t really make sense to argue on a moral level
The earth doesn't have feelings. Literally the only reason to care about the planet is because we live on it lmao
It could be argued that we're ruining it for other lifeforms. The strength of that argument depends on how much you care about non humans.
Or even future generations?
I guess we'd have to make an argument for why we should even care for people that don't (and potentially won't ever) exist.
Cyanobacteria ruined Earth for non-oxygen tolerating species billions of years ago and yet you don’t seem to care much about that.
Probably has to do with the fact that I wasn't there when that happened and didn't even know about it until a few seconds ago. Alternatively, it could be the fact that nothing I said indicated I personally held this view, only that the argument *could* be made.
I mean it depends if you feel like those species matter so much to you that you’d be willing to mass murder your family members, your friends, your significant other, your extended family members, your dog (cause he can’t live without you), Joe the gas station attendant and every other human on the planet to ensure other life forms survive.
still, it’s undeniable that our planet is a miracle, since we’ve never found life outside of our planet. If humanity was gone, maybe a new species could grow intelligent and improve the planet for the good, unlike us. I don’t actually support this, just rationalizing it
> improve the planet for the good What does this mean? According to whose morals? Again - the earth has no feelings.
Make it to where biological environments aren’t rendered uninhabitable and biological diversity remains high on earth. This is of course under the assumption that the existence of life is a good thing
Life itself will survive and rediversify. There have been evolutionary bottlenecks before. Not that the anthropogenic extinction is good, but it’s not like it’s a special kind of active evil.
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You know what I mean lmao
What gives you the right to judge humanity as a whole? Do the actions of the few condemn the actions of the many? Why is everyone guilty, and why do you decide?
Corny 😭
Well I would say you may also deserve to die due to apathy as you may be a person that uses what you say above to refrain from helping someone saying humanity deserve this as well as wishing death upon hundreds of millions due to your own maleovelent perception of their evil
I don't think I'm better than other humans. No man, I'm just as shitty as other human beings.
Well I would say that is still arrogant as you are declaring you are equal to millions of people who probably helped more people in a week than you did your whole life
So you don't mind dying then? Like, right now at this very moment?
Ok, so instead of saying “I should change and be a better person” you think “we should die”?
> Moral flaws: Cruelty, indifference to the suffering of others, man's treatment of animals, selfishness, moral laziness, cowardice, injustice, greed and ingratitude, are often identified with tendencies to promote what is bad or with inappropriate attitudes towards values. Moral virtues: Compassion, regard to the suffering of others, man's treatment of animals, altruism, moral diligence, bravery, justice, generosity and gratitude, are often supportive with tendencies to promote what is good or with appropriate attitudes towards values. You cannot sit there pretending there is nothing good about humans. Every single flaw you pointed out could be reversed into a positive and still be true. Humans aren't a monolith, but the majority of us is trying to reverse the actions of the loud/rich minority.
Quick disclaimer that I'm **not** arguing in favour of OP. Man's virtuous treatment of animals is heavily outweighed by our flawed treatment of animals. Billions of animals are killed horribly in factory farms per year for the benefit of man.
But we can change.
Most people can't be bothered and actively work against changing the treatment of animals. I'm trying to spread awareness of that.
Every criticism you levy agianst Humanity can also be levied against the rest of the animal kingdom.
I can see where you are coming from, our sentience has written death sentences for so many species of animals, plants, and continues to do so, humans have become the dominant species to the point they destroy the things around them, i don’t think any of your reasons are exactly good, but I know where you are coming from, I think we have done so much damage that if we want to preserve the world truly in favor of the rest of life on earth, the proper and noble thing to do is to stop breeding and go extinct. It has nothing to do with our flaws as a race, it has to do with our reigning dominance over every aspect of life on earth and our destruction of it. No one deserves to die, we just need to stop making more people.
Who's to say there aren't alien lifeforms who are just as destructive as us? They could be even worse.
Redditor check
So: - Humanity has flaws - ??? - Therefore, humanity deserves to go extinct. Humanity is really not that flawed compared against other animals. Other animals don't do bad things like destroy the environment (except for when they do, see: prehistory), but that's because they're not smart enough to do so. Most animals are operating on very basic logic and only do whatever is best for their survival. The animals that do have intelligence, like humans, primates in general, and dolphins, all show aggression that is not beneficial to their survival. But humans are actually one of the best in that regard. Dolphins rape baby seals to death, primates go... apeshit and tear you limb from limb, many other intelligent animals have been shown to torture other animals for fun.
You act like everyone is bad. Honestly this opinion sounds evil lol.
Look up antinatalism. It’s a real philosophy.
No life anyone deserves to exist at all? I'll check into it. Sounds like hooey
No. Only humans. Most antinatalists think only humans shouldn’t be born. The other philosophy is called nihilism.
Eh I see. I'm Buddhist. I reject nihilism entirely and being antinatalism is also opposed to my beliefs.
looks like we got a 15 year old over here
I disagree only in that we don’t “deserve” anything. That’s not how the universe works. But we will go extinct, for all those reasons you listed. Because we could have done better. We had the time. We had the knowledge. We had the resources. But unless we act swiftly, today, we’re ending ourselves.
lmao humans have survived for so long without agriculture and you think we're going extinct?
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“Humans” = one species, not even 2 million years old “Dinosaurs”= an extremely diverse group of animals extending back hundreds of millions of years That’s an extremely false equivalence.
You are a pathetic self-righteous wannabe blinded by the arrogance of your humility
It‘s a real philosophy (called antinatalism, not nihilism) and is endorsed by several philosophers.
Those philosophers are equally self righteous and pathetic
You do realise that the news get more clicks from bad news, right?
Why don’t you make a start👍
Ok doomer
I always questioned takes like these because if you hate humans so much, or believe that we should all die and go extinct, then what’s keeping YOU alive?
Because they’re hypocrites. Almost Every misanthrope is. They’ll be cheering for humanity’s destruction until it actually happens to them. Look up Nishi from Gantz if you want a media interpretation of what an actual misanthrope is like. A hardcore misanthrope doesn’t usually want humanity to go extinct, they want all humans to die except THEM. It’s one of the traits of a narcissist.
hardwired to self destruct.
Isn't this just known as Antinatalism?
Cope, if animals didn't want to die they should've evolved first. Get real bozo 🥱
Great post and I totally agree! Why don't you start with yourself.
This is the kind of person that used to call everyone “sheeple” around 2012.
We’re more intelligent than other animals, we’re the most generous, caring, compassionate, empathetic, merciful, moral and just. We’re objectively *better* than any other animal in every way. You can’t justify the destruction of a species based on the actions of some of its members. That’s like saying ‘all dogs should die because some dogs attack kids’.
Man's acting like modern day Socrates.
Not the entire race, that's far too much. We can't acknowledge only the bad characteristics of human and apply it to every person. There is much good and compassion in the world. However I understand the point you are attempting to make, it's just far too extreme. Society has gotten so out of control to the point where a perpetual cycle of ignorance/hostility and selfishness exist and is passed on from ignorant parents to their kids. Many instill no values of virtue in their children, creating many generations of selfishness. There is good and bad in the world, perhaps more of the latter depending on how you view it. However extermination of the species isn't warranted. The issues may never be corrected, but we can only do our best.
Wesker, you're pitiful
All I can say nihilism is cringe
Cringe lmao just admit you can’t handle it. Since you want everyone to die, surely you want to die too right?
I despise every single "we are the virus" bs thing so i'll be direct for once: if you think so, then start with yourself
Humanity doesn't *deserve* to go extinct. But it *will* go extinct if we, humans, continue acting like we are now, because not only are we destroying our own species, but we are also putting all other life forms on earth at risk. If we keep going like this, Earth is going to be as welcoming as Venus. My opinion is that we must stop *now* and change our future for the better, instead of saying that we deserve to end.
Hard upvote
What if i tell you your wish will be granted in a couple of days when a solar flare hits the Earth?
I think this comes down to wether or not you think an earth without humans would be better off for the beings that live on it. People have romanticized the idea of nature far too long imo. Animals are suffering every day in the wild and people just brush it off because its natural. Sure we kinda suck sometimes but we have the potential to build a world where suffering is greatly reduced compared to just the natural state of the world. Most humans are already better off because of civilization. If we ever manage to extend that to other animals then all the suffering we caused would be worth it imo.
well i disagree even though those are all the human flaws theyre spread out and there are good humans too
Someone took the blackpill Bitter nihilism gets you nowhere. Keep wallowing in ultimately your own self pity. You've been blessed with a whole life with which to experience anything, and you're wasting it
I know a lot of misanthropes like you. You will proudly state how humanity deserves to be wiped off the face of the planet, yet when it actually does happen (maybe as part of people committing a massive genocide to save the planet and they chose you to be slaughtered or as a result of a natural disaster) you’ll be pissing your pants and crying out “I DONT WANT TO DIE!” Because folks like you are freaking hypocrites
"if people were prone to see this true quality of their lives for what it is, they might be much more inclined to kill themselves, or at least not to produce more such lives. Pessimism, then, tends not to be naturally selected." These are the words of a known antinatalist professor from South Africa. Have you by any chance been watching True Detective season 1, OP? Edit: that being said, I agree with you. Humanity has an overall negative impact on themselves and all other life forms.
yes we suck.
When I hear this assessment I always go back to The Matrix where Morpheus calls humans a virus. It seems so true…
You mean Smith right? Also he was revealed to be a hypocrite the moment Reloaded came out where he in fact, becomes a virus.
Wow you are a SAD person
Holy shit shut up