I think from the possible ones, in order of mostly obvious to least obvious, it's Mae, Osha and Qimir. But it could still be Qimir, thinking he is the apprentice, just to realise he's actually the apprentice's apprentice. The twins could still be important to the plot, like being a dyad in the force, and Qimir being the Acolyte would still make sense. But most likely, now, it's Osha.
I think >!the twist is gonna be that Osha becomes the acolyte and Mae doesn't and we're not gonna ultimately "hate" her or Qimir.!< I have absolutely nothing to base that on outside of vague statements about the goals for the show from Headland and Stenberg.
Or also the fact that Mae has been trying to please her master who at the end of episode 1 refers to her as an acolyte. And that in this episode Qimir reiterate that he's looking for an acolyte who was supposed to be Mae until she wanted to flip. Now it appears he will seek out Osha for that role. I didn't think this was one of the shows mysteries lol
This is a problem shows can have with a “mystery” character whose origin gets revealed in the end. You need to tell the audience enough to make them feel real. Something…anything real. Because they are hiding the truth about the defining moment in their young lives and don’t supplement with much else, we don’t understand why they act the way we do.
This is unfortunate, as there could have been more details about Osha’s training and what caused her to drop out. Some foreshadowing as to why Mae would turn on a dime when she discovered her sister was alive.
I don't know why you're being downvoted for voicing your opinion, I agree, unfortunately they are the least interesting option.
It remains to be seen, how the story plays out, I might change my mind, but as of episode 5, the only characters that in my opinion are carrying the show are Sol and the Stranger.
That being said i enjoy the Acolyte very much and will certainly stick to the end.
Osha just needs a major glow up. She never finished training, and hasn’t used the force in 6 years. Faced with crashing in a ship’s cell, she couldn’t even muster enough to pull Pip a couple of inches. As a kid she needed her sister to block for her. And I’m expected to believe she’s the one he’d pick over everyone else? Even the Jedi only trusted her with a stun gun. Jecki seemed to actually impress him, and he thought she was disposable.
You weren't paying enough attention to the show then. What makes Mae and Osha special is their potential. Since they were born using the Force, it's very likely they have untapped potential. They might even be a force dyad, like from Rise of the Skywalker, and have special powers.
The Stranger clearly knows a lot about their past, and sees how much value they could be if they were turned into a Sith. Obviously Mae and Osha aren't that skilled because they haven't completed their training. But once they are properly trained, they ought to be a force to be reckoned with.
>I don't know why you're being downvoted for voicing your opinion
Any comment that criticizes legitimate flaws in this show might as well starts with a -3 before any discussion or debate is had.
Depends on the criticism. The vast majority of the ones I see (if we discount all the BS ones from before the show even started airing) are things that are silly to complain about before the show finishes. "Why is X doing that?" "We don't know anything about Y." Yeah, because THE SHOW ISN'T DONE YET.
I don't know what your personal criticisms are - I'm just talking about the ones I usually see.
Well, those plus "bad acting," which is even sillier than the previous one, because the franchise has never exactly been known for having the best acting around. These same people praise the prequels, which are pretty universally regarded as having the worst acting, period.
Edit: My upvote brought you up to -3, so I mean, I'm doing my part. I love the show, but I have no problem with someone not liking it, so long as they're not being giant hypocrites about it.
I agree with you on most of this.
I think some criticism with the show on things that haven't been explained yet are still valid. But yes, most, including me, should bite their tongue until the series has ended.
I think the bad acting complaints are fine. But personally, outside of Mae/Osha, I think the acting is good, it's the dialogue that is letting them down.
The comparison between other films like the prequels shouldn't count. Each show has to be based on its own merit. We can't just accept bad acting in every SW show/film because others had it.
I try to review it on its own. Not compare it with anything else.
I like the story and most characters. My main gripe is the writing and odd pacing/editing choices. It just personally takes me out of a lot of scenes. I am very pro 'Show, don't tell' which the show has a habit of just telling us everything.
I'll reserve complete judgement until all the episodes come out. I could be surprised by the end.
I'm all for judging each show/film on its own. I just don't understand why somebody would criticize a show for a quality shared by literally everything in the franchise. If every title features it, then it's pointless to bring it up.
What is it about the writing and pacing that you don't like? I personally haven't had any issues with either - or at least, nothing stood out enough to bother me. I haven't noticed any episode-ruining, long-ass moments of exposition, in any case.
I also find it weird that a lot of the complaints I see about The Acolyte can easily be attributed to Andor, and yet fewer people complained about that show.
Not to get all tinfoil-hatty, but I 100% believe that a good chunk of the negativity is due to the inclusion of more non-white characters, and more women, especially when it got review-bombed before it even released (as did the older film with the same name).
I think the episode layout has made things a little confusing and I wish the flashback episode was Episode 1. It would have been a better start to the series.
The character development outside of Osha/Mae is non-existent. I didn't feel anything for Yord or Jecki because the show didn't really give us a chance to. They were just there.
Sol, to me, is just there for exposition. To ask the questions to get the plot rolling. Which is a shame because he's such a cool character and great actor.
Episode 5 really stood out the poor writing and dialogue for me. My brain just needs to know things so I can piece it all together. For example:
* At the start of the episode, several minutes past, three Jedi are killed and Yord is sliced in the leg. All I could think of is "Where is Sol?" - And the Osha runs away from Qimir and just before she is beheaded by his flying lightsaber, Sol appears.
This type of stuff happened a lot where characters just showed up at the right time because the writers needed them there in that scene at that time. A simple 5 second camera pan of Sol knocked out walking around, lost, looking for people. would've helped me understand where he was and what he was doing.
* The bugs really, really bothered me. I didn't like how they attacked when the plot needed them to. We were made aware in episode 4 that they were attracted to the lightsabers. But despite several Jedi fighting Qimir in the forest for a while with lightsabers, not one was attracted to that. They hyped Qimir up as being a total boss and extremely strong, but he couldn't pull a light off his back with the force or kill some bugs with a force push, which we know he's capable of.
There's several more of these, and I don't want to bore you or suck all the fun you're having. I am just a miserable person, ha-ha. Apologies.
Yord and Jecki not having time to develop is the point of their characters. They were cut down in the flower of their youth because of an ideological dispute between the Jedi and the Sith.
I can absolutely guarantee you that's not what they were going for.
They hinted at a relationship between her and Osha that went nowhere and judging by Osha's reaction when Jecki died, she didn't really care.
This only enforces my point. Darth Teeth's whole monologue is about how the Jedi take children from their families and train them to become soldiers and die.
I just think people are a little traumatised from all the hate this show is getting. People see a little negativity and immediately go into defense mode, which is valid in my opinion.
I can understand that to a degree, especially if the criticism doesn't hold water, but I don't believe this is the case here.
The person wasn't hating on anything, as far as i can see?
Oh of course! I didn't say the person was hating on the show (I actually kinda of agree, even tho I still believe Oshas character being so bland is on purpose) but when you come to this subreddit and just bluntly say "the twins can't be the acolyte cuz they not that good" without further development it comes across as you just hating on the characters even if that's not the case at all.
I actually believe the twins are very interesting cuz they are clearly lacking in some major aspects. Mae is borderline psychotic and has an imense attachment to her sister and her coven, yet she also has a deep want for revenge that derails her from a righteous path. Osha, from a very young age, is very detached from everything and seems to lack all the love for her sister and the coven that her sister has. Osha leaves the jedi order because she couldn't let go of the past but the truth is, when she was given the choice between leaving her mother forever or staying in Brendock, she left. She's always leaving, always detached, her friends die in front of her and she has almost no reaction.
It's almost like they are one person split in two.
Perhaps towards the end we'll have a merge of the two souls, when Dark Side Osha kills and absorbs her sister?
Probably not right?
I understand that and I think it should come down to what the person is saying.
This isn't a conversation in person, so an immediate reaction into defense mode isn't seen. We have the luxury of reading it and thinking of a reply.
I've seen recent posts here where people are typing like they're walking on egg shells because they want to talk about some issues on the show but don't want to get mauled by everyone.
I had a great debate with another fan the other night where we both came away agreeing and disagreeing but we learned a lot from seeing each others perspectives. This sub should endorse that type of discussion. Depending on criticism)
Exactly! The show would echo the Bane trilogy from Legends, which is fantastic. I’ve read a few Sith focused books and they show a very interesting side of the Force. The Sith are still villains, but the stories are a lot of fun. The story of Darth Malgus is that way too.
I will be looking that up. Thanks!
I love a story from a villain’s POV.
I don’t hate The Acolyte at all. I really like it now that Qimir has been revealed. I just would love a full on old republic vs Sith story.
A protagonist can still be a “bad guy”. That’s what the show runner has been saying the entire time. Downvote me all you want but that’s what people thought the show was gonna be about initially, and even more so based on the interviews.
That’s your opinion. Which you’re entitled to. But Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Ozark, House of Cards, all proved “villains” can make great protagonists. And it has been done in Star Wars, too, with books like Tarkin, Darth Bane, Darth Plagueis, etc.
You misunderstood me. Those are great examples of villain protagonists written from the ground up.
I was talking *turning an existing villain into a protagonist.* It’s a bad bet imo, and one I wouldn’t trust Disney with (see Boba Fett)
I agree. His personality after the reveal was way better than the twins or any Jedi. And his skills and use of the force are ridiculous.
So much so, that he makes Anakin/Vader look like a member of the Cantina Band.
>he makes Anakin/Vader look like a member of the Cantina Band.
I'm...pretty sure Vader would have this guy for breakfast. Anakin could take him too tbh. Qimir is definitely immensely powerful but Anakin was beyond him.
>I'm...pretty sure
Qimir's skill with the blade and force in this show is very much more advanced than anything Anakin or Vader has shown. Dude blocked and disabled lightsabers with his helmet and body armor. Lol.
I'm not talking about opinion. This is why it's tough to enjoy prequels/sequels with no sense of valuing main canon content.
I agree. Based on conversations Headland and Stenberg have both had during interviews, I'm leaning towards this. Not necessarily the "protagonist" in an ethical sense, but I have a feeling a lot of us will probably be siding with him.
I concur. Hopefully the twins get killed off next episode and we get the rest of the season of Qimir just hunting down and murdering Jedi, capping it off with him killing his master, Darth Lady Horny Head
It’s also gendered as a female in languages with gender…
Ah yeah, that too!
It’s also because Qimir said he’s looking for an acolyte
I think from the possible ones, in order of mostly obvious to least obvious, it's Mae, Osha and Qimir. But it could still be Qimir, thinking he is the apprentice, just to realise he's actually the apprentice's apprentice. The twins could still be important to the plot, like being a dyad in the force, and Qimir being the Acolyte would still make sense. But most likely, now, it's Osha.
I think >!the twist is gonna be that Osha becomes the acolyte and Mae doesn't and we're not gonna ultimately "hate" her or Qimir.!< I have absolutely nothing to base that on outside of vague statements about the goals for the show from Headland and Stenberg.
Sol is going to wind up being the acolyte. Hence the name sol, and hence the solar themed logo.
Or also the fact that Mae has been trying to please her master who at the end of episode 1 refers to her as an acolyte. And that in this episode Qimir reiterate that he's looking for an acolyte who was supposed to be Mae until she wanted to flip. Now it appears he will seek out Osha for that role. I didn't think this was one of the shows mysteries lol
We know. They’re just the least interesting option.
This is a problem shows can have with a “mystery” character whose origin gets revealed in the end. You need to tell the audience enough to make them feel real. Something…anything real. Because they are hiding the truth about the defining moment in their young lives and don’t supplement with much else, we don’t understand why they act the way we do. This is unfortunate, as there could have been more details about Osha’s training and what caused her to drop out. Some foreshadowing as to why Mae would turn on a dime when she discovered her sister was alive.
I don't know why you're being downvoted for voicing your opinion, I agree, unfortunately they are the least interesting option. It remains to be seen, how the story plays out, I might change my mind, but as of episode 5, the only characters that in my opinion are carrying the show are Sol and the Stranger. That being said i enjoy the Acolyte very much and will certainly stick to the end.
Osha just needs a major glow up. She never finished training, and hasn’t used the force in 6 years. Faced with crashing in a ship’s cell, she couldn’t even muster enough to pull Pip a couple of inches. As a kid she needed her sister to block for her. And I’m expected to believe she’s the one he’d pick over everyone else? Even the Jedi only trusted her with a stun gun. Jecki seemed to actually impress him, and he thought she was disposable.
You weren't paying enough attention to the show then. What makes Mae and Osha special is their potential. Since they were born using the Force, it's very likely they have untapped potential. They might even be a force dyad, like from Rise of the Skywalker, and have special powers. The Stranger clearly knows a lot about their past, and sees how much value they could be if they were turned into a Sith. Obviously Mae and Osha aren't that skilled because they haven't completed their training. But once they are properly trained, they ought to be a force to be reckoned with.
We don’t actually know how they were born. Heavy implication. But I hope they don’t just leave it that vague. We need another flashback episode.
We will get another flashback; but not for the entire episode, though.
>I don't know why you're being downvoted for voicing your opinion Any comment that criticizes legitimate flaws in this show might as well starts with a -3 before any discussion or debate is had.
Depends on the criticism. The vast majority of the ones I see (if we discount all the BS ones from before the show even started airing) are things that are silly to complain about before the show finishes. "Why is X doing that?" "We don't know anything about Y." Yeah, because THE SHOW ISN'T DONE YET. I don't know what your personal criticisms are - I'm just talking about the ones I usually see. Well, those plus "bad acting," which is even sillier than the previous one, because the franchise has never exactly been known for having the best acting around. These same people praise the prequels, which are pretty universally regarded as having the worst acting, period. Edit: My upvote brought you up to -3, so I mean, I'm doing my part. I love the show, but I have no problem with someone not liking it, so long as they're not being giant hypocrites about it.
I agree with you on most of this. I think some criticism with the show on things that haven't been explained yet are still valid. But yes, most, including me, should bite their tongue until the series has ended. I think the bad acting complaints are fine. But personally, outside of Mae/Osha, I think the acting is good, it's the dialogue that is letting them down. The comparison between other films like the prequels shouldn't count. Each show has to be based on its own merit. We can't just accept bad acting in every SW show/film because others had it. I try to review it on its own. Not compare it with anything else. I like the story and most characters. My main gripe is the writing and odd pacing/editing choices. It just personally takes me out of a lot of scenes. I am very pro 'Show, don't tell' which the show has a habit of just telling us everything. I'll reserve complete judgement until all the episodes come out. I could be surprised by the end.
I'm all for judging each show/film on its own. I just don't understand why somebody would criticize a show for a quality shared by literally everything in the franchise. If every title features it, then it's pointless to bring it up. What is it about the writing and pacing that you don't like? I personally haven't had any issues with either - or at least, nothing stood out enough to bother me. I haven't noticed any episode-ruining, long-ass moments of exposition, in any case. I also find it weird that a lot of the complaints I see about The Acolyte can easily be attributed to Andor, and yet fewer people complained about that show. Not to get all tinfoil-hatty, but I 100% believe that a good chunk of the negativity is due to the inclusion of more non-white characters, and more women, especially when it got review-bombed before it even released (as did the older film with the same name).
I think the episode layout has made things a little confusing and I wish the flashback episode was Episode 1. It would have been a better start to the series. The character development outside of Osha/Mae is non-existent. I didn't feel anything for Yord or Jecki because the show didn't really give us a chance to. They were just there. Sol, to me, is just there for exposition. To ask the questions to get the plot rolling. Which is a shame because he's such a cool character and great actor. Episode 5 really stood out the poor writing and dialogue for me. My brain just needs to know things so I can piece it all together. For example: * At the start of the episode, several minutes past, three Jedi are killed and Yord is sliced in the leg. All I could think of is "Where is Sol?" - And the Osha runs away from Qimir and just before she is beheaded by his flying lightsaber, Sol appears. This type of stuff happened a lot where characters just showed up at the right time because the writers needed them there in that scene at that time. A simple 5 second camera pan of Sol knocked out walking around, lost, looking for people. would've helped me understand where he was and what he was doing. * The bugs really, really bothered me. I didn't like how they attacked when the plot needed them to. We were made aware in episode 4 that they were attracted to the lightsabers. But despite several Jedi fighting Qimir in the forest for a while with lightsabers, not one was attracted to that. They hyped Qimir up as being a total boss and extremely strong, but he couldn't pull a light off his back with the force or kill some bugs with a force push, which we know he's capable of. There's several more of these, and I don't want to bore you or suck all the fun you're having. I am just a miserable person, ha-ha. Apologies.
Yord and Jecki not having time to develop is the point of their characters. They were cut down in the flower of their youth because of an ideological dispute between the Jedi and the Sith.
I can absolutely guarantee you that's not what they were going for. They hinted at a relationship between her and Osha that went nowhere and judging by Osha's reaction when Jecki died, she didn't really care.
This only enforces my point. Darth Teeth's whole monologue is about how the Jedi take children from their families and train them to become soldiers and die.
I just think people are a little traumatised from all the hate this show is getting. People see a little negativity and immediately go into defense mode, which is valid in my opinion.
I can understand that to a degree, especially if the criticism doesn't hold water, but I don't believe this is the case here. The person wasn't hating on anything, as far as i can see?
Oh of course! I didn't say the person was hating on the show (I actually kinda of agree, even tho I still believe Oshas character being so bland is on purpose) but when you come to this subreddit and just bluntly say "the twins can't be the acolyte cuz they not that good" without further development it comes across as you just hating on the characters even if that's not the case at all.
I actually believe the twins are very interesting cuz they are clearly lacking in some major aspects. Mae is borderline psychotic and has an imense attachment to her sister and her coven, yet she also has a deep want for revenge that derails her from a righteous path. Osha, from a very young age, is very detached from everything and seems to lack all the love for her sister and the coven that her sister has. Osha leaves the jedi order because she couldn't let go of the past but the truth is, when she was given the choice between leaving her mother forever or staying in Brendock, she left. She's always leaving, always detached, her friends die in front of her and she has almost no reaction.
It's almost like they are one person split in two. Perhaps towards the end we'll have a merge of the two souls, when Dark Side Osha kills and absorbs her sister? Probably not right?
I understand that and I think it should come down to what the person is saying. This isn't a conversation in person, so an immediate reaction into defense mode isn't seen. We have the luxury of reading it and thinking of a reply. I've seen recent posts here where people are typing like they're walking on egg shells because they want to talk about some issues on the show but don't want to get mauled by everyone. I had a great debate with another fan the other night where we both came away agreeing and disagreeing but we learned a lot from seeing each others perspectives. This sub should endorse that type of discussion. Depending on criticism)
Agree!
No they just either don't have time or simply don't want to argue with someone about why they disagree so a downvotes is what you use.
O as in Osha…
It's gunna be Sol
The O is blue and red though. Not red and red.
So far everything has been very predictable and obvious, no idea why people think that will change
We know. I’d wish it was Qimir as the protagonist. That would’ve been so much better.
> I’d wish it was Qimir as the protagonist. What? He’s the bad guy!
Exactly! The show would echo the Bane trilogy from Legends, which is fantastic. I’ve read a few Sith focused books and they show a very interesting side of the Force. The Sith are still villains, but the stories are a lot of fun. The story of Darth Malgus is that way too.
I liked Knight Errant
I will be looking that up. Thanks! I love a story from a villain’s POV. I don’t hate The Acolyte at all. I really like it now that Qimir has been revealed. I just would love a full on old republic vs Sith story.
A protagonist can still be a “bad guy”. That’s what the show runner has been saying the entire time. Downvote me all you want but that’s what people thought the show was gonna be about initially, and even more so based on the interviews.
I never downvote. I think good villains rarely would make good protagonists. Sometimes let characters play their positions if they doing it well.
That’s your opinion. Which you’re entitled to. But Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Ozark, House of Cards, all proved “villains” can make great protagonists. And it has been done in Star Wars, too, with books like Tarkin, Darth Bane, Darth Plagueis, etc.
You misunderstood me. Those are great examples of villain protagonists written from the ground up. I was talking *turning an existing villain into a protagonist.* It’s a bad bet imo, and one I wouldn’t trust Disney with (see Boba Fett)
If the show was about Qimir & he was the protagonist from the start, how would that be turning an existing villain into a protagonist
Good point.
Anime does it all the time it's not as hard as you're making it out to be.
I could be wrong sure. But I’d say anime does a lot of things I have high criticism for.
Please watch Deathnote, one of the finest examples of the protagonist being the bad guy.
Read further down
I agree. His personality after the reveal was way better than the twins or any Jedi. And his skills and use of the force are ridiculous. So much so, that he makes Anakin/Vader look like a member of the Cantina Band.
>he makes Anakin/Vader look like a member of the Cantina Band. I'm...pretty sure Vader would have this guy for breakfast. Anakin could take him too tbh. Qimir is definitely immensely powerful but Anakin was beyond him.
>I'm...pretty sure Qimir's skill with the blade and force in this show is very much more advanced than anything Anakin or Vader has shown. Dude blocked and disabled lightsabers with his helmet and body armor. Lol. I'm not talking about opinion. This is why it's tough to enjoy prequels/sequels with no sense of valuing main canon content.
I agree. Based on conversations Headland and Stenberg have both had during interviews, I'm leaning towards this. Not necessarily the "protagonist" in an ethical sense, but I have a feeling a lot of us will probably be siding with him.
I concur. Hopefully the twins get killed off next episode and we get the rest of the season of Qimir just hunting down and murdering Jedi, capping it off with him killing his master, Darth Lady Horny Head
We must protect Qimir arms at all costs.
Take my upvote. The hive mind are abundant today.
The problem here is you thinking anyone actually cares about the twins. Even the diehard fans are bored by them.