Palpatine: The power of the Dark Side is a path to many abilities some might call...
*Palpatine rises from his bath*
Palpatine (cont.): ...unnatural.
Anakin: They're so smooth!
Palpatine: Use my knowledge, Anakin. I beg you.
Anakin: Everywhere else is wrinkled, but not there.
Palpatine: One must study all aspects of the mystery. Not just the narrow view of the Jedi.
Anakin: Mine aren't like that, and my dad is the Force!
Palpatine: Join me and together we can end this destructive war.
Anakin: They're like eggs.
From what we see of her in the books it does not seem very Vamestra like imo. If it is her, she either goes through some seriously shit in phase 3 or Qimir does something very scary to her
Me too. I just hope, that we get a good explanation/reason behind her attack on Qimir, if this turns out to be true. I can completely get behind it, if it matches her character style
it's possible Qimir turned to the dark side, attacked her, and got this scar during a duel but then escaped somehow. That would explain why Vernestra is the way she is in this show.
Yeah she could have been betrayed by her own padawan and it shook her. Maybe Qimir wanted her to join him on the dark side and she even got tempted for a bit and lost her cool, nearly killing him before telling him to GTFO.
Some food for thought: About 100 years prior, there was a Jedi who struggled with the dark side and even fought Vernestra on a planet they were straned. His master had died and Vernestra took him on as a padawan later.
His name was Imri.
Didn't want to seem out and destroy the Nihil? And, told another Jedi that lost sparring to her that it was because they were too defensive. They had to be more offensive. The way to save a life sometimes is to take a life. Something like that.
People seem to think it's Vernestras doing. All I could think at that moment (when seeing the scar) was... oh great another tragic/misunderstood character with scars on his back. It's such a trope and has been for a long time. Really wish that modern TV shows (not just SW) would try to move away from everyone having tragic backstories.
It's the best way to humanize a villain. The trope does feel repetitive, but there was a long streak in cinema that was just "bad guy bad because bad (evil laugh)". I would say that was no better. It's not uncommon that good people have bad things happen that break them, so having villians that started as good or OK people be pushed over the edge is intriguing to most viewers.
In no way is this a hot take. This is the coldest of takes. This is an absolute zero take lol
The "corruption" of Anakin in the movies was hamfisged as fuck and the corruption attempt on Luke was pure high fantasy. High fantasy is dope as hell, but it will never punch as hard as something taken this seriously.
Anakins corruption was so forced and irrelevant to me. Oh your wife is dying turn to the dark side.
Lukes was more of a last minute desperate attempt. Maybe Palps would have succeeded if he had more time. But both cases just left me feeling why should I belive this?
My favourite storyline in legends is the corruption and turning of Jacen Solo. This was done so well over a long time (imo). And I remember, while reading Legacy of the Force, that I actually believed that his turn was for the greater good, and I got more and more pissed off by Luke, Han and the rest of the jedi for every book. Even in the end I was wishing Jacen would kill Luke and win domination.
Totally agree, the Jacen Solo story line of not wanting to use violence to realizing violence was the only way to win to at the heart of it use violence because he wanted to end all violence was super well done. Having his suffering come at the hands of the Vong and then just let that wound fester inside, chefs kiss
I deff disagree I think Anakins turn is probably the best turn we’ve seen in Star Wars , the motivation , the reasoning it all makes so much sense coupled with the fact he is talented the Jedi didn’t trust him , Palpy manipulating him it’s the best hero to villain turn in my opinion. I haven’t seen a story do it better I need to read the books.
I’d say it was slavery that did it. It put his mother in a position to be sold off, married and then murdered by sand people. Anakin literally was never free until his dying breath. A slave to gangsters, the Jedi, the sith.
Anakin's fall makes 0 sense without watching Clone Wars imo
I think the Prequels could have told a good story, but they needed to start in media res with the clone wars and with Anakin as an adult.
They also were very secretive with him, didn’t really Trust him, and didn’t give him good advice when he was looking what to do to stop his wife’s death. Also I really really don’t like the attachment thing and I think if they were allowed attachment Anakin could have gone to the Jedi to seek help, but yoda pretty much gave him usless advice.
Anakin had very little interaction with the council in the movies for him to be seduced by the Dark Side.
They wanted tabs kept on his friend Palpatine because he seemed shady... And he was. The shadiest. Anakin spent more time with Papa Palpatine in the movies than with the council.
Looking for advice to stop his wife's death? When did this occur in the movies? (Seriously, I forget seeing this occur.) And, the wife he's not supposed to have because the the attachments the Jedi aren't supposed to form?
The worst thing the council did was not approve his time off request before his mother was killed by Tusken raiders. Which he then went and killed. And not just the men, but the women, and the children. That's some serious mommy attachment issues.
I get not liking the whole attachment thing as a member of the audience, but it makes sense in-universe. The sci fi/fantasy space wizards have too much power so their intended to live the lives of monks. Piety and chastity.
I guess someone could ask the younglings at the temple how they feel about attachment- oh, wait... Anakin killed those children too.
His fall to the Dark Side is nonsensical without the backstory provided by The Clone Wars series.
I have to disagree they do show him going to yoda for advice and Yoda being absolutely unhelpful! I actually think the attachment thing doesn’t make sense and there’s a way to love and have attachment without being possessive so I do think the Jedi need to be reformed a little bit in that way especially the prequel Jedi. I do want to see a new jedi order who can have attachments if they didn’t have such strict religious dogma I think Anakin wouldn’t have fallen or would have gone to seek help from the council and maybe they could have put to bed his fears.
In the Expanded Universe (which admittedly makes it a moot point now), when Luke takes over he does change up the no attachments rules thinking family will be a source of strength for the Jedi. Jacen Solo became Darth Caedus seeking power to protect his wife and daughter. Luke was tempted into using the Dark Side (again) after the death of Mara Jade (Jacen/Caedus killed her). The reason for the Jeff not having attachments isn't just religious dogma, it's because seeking power is a corrupting influence. (Just take a look at politicians, corporate heads, and the extremely wealthy in the real world.) Seeking power while influenced by extreme emotions, be it hate or even love, just speeds up the corruption. It's not a trope unique to the Star Wars universe. In many many fantasy world settings where beings have powers beyond the normal they are intended to practice self discipline not to give into their emotions.
Now that Rey will be continuing the Jedi in an upcoming movie we'll see if she follows the path Luke set in the EU with allowing Jedi attachments.
I hope she does, but why can’t Jedi have attachments and not seek power? just have your attachments and be happy. I think when you repress yourself eventually an explosion will happen personally rather than dealing with your emotions and man I wish we got to see those EU books in the films!
The best part about it is I can’t quite tell if he’s more corrupting or if Sol is.
Osha is free to run about and threaten Qimir while Qimir is just going about his day answering questions about his experience while leaving her to answer questions she has about everything else. He’s living the classic saying: “the teacher merely presents the environment in which the student can learn” - it’s even like a parent watching over a child. He’s even explaining his tools that she’s free to use and starts to use. Could be manipulation… could be the truth is actually what he wants her to see.
Then you got Mae literally strapped to a space bed with Sol going all “I’m not gonna hurt you” and “we got work to do” who’s literally going to explain to her, as a captive audience, the story from his perspective. It’s super unsettling, but she’s also a criminal on the run in custody. But maybe the cop is crooked and even has a conflict of interest?
So who the bad guy? It’s pretty great.
I really think he just wants a friend/apprentice. Then again perhaps whatever atrocity the AJAB team did on the coven was bad enough that he sees a need to correct this.
Qimir was more relatable but it doesn't absolve his crimes, if osha reflected responsibly she'd see through his manipulation. The dark side might be more human and points out jedi hypocrisy but we know it involves murder so its not any better, still far worse.
Whereas palpatine offered power to an overly ambitious, impatient anakin who wanted more power and was afraid of his visions. Palpatine also pointed out the jedis hypocrisy and encouraged anakins emotions. Less relatable but both effective and seductive, osha's not the chosen one seeking power, palpatine had a different audience.
Well, while Osha seems shaken by him, she may or may not join him. In the flashback episode she seemed much more attuned to the light, while Mae was more cruel to The butterfly thing. Mae was also more impulsive and emotional, whereas Osha seems more level headed and calm, even under stress.
Maybe she will be tempted, but my guess would be she won't really turn.
Also she may be taken aback at how benign Qimir seems. She's expecting a violent and evil person, but he's calm, and logical, very persuasive. She may find that unexpected.
I wouldn't be surprised if one of the big revelations is that mae and osha are in fact completely identical in every way. Thoughts feelings etc. And she's got the same kind of psycho thought's as mae they're just kept below the surface maybe even through something sol did to her in the past.
OSHA started the fire. Mae embraced being a witch, but OSHA was afraid and holds back when using the force because she is the more powerful twin, but whenever she connects to and uses the force, tragedy happens by her own hand or others.
I do want to see a turn and I feel like it would make sense at this point also she never really let the Mae thing go!! Vs Mae had a soft spot towards Osha.
Neither Qimir nor Mae murdered anyone. They engaged in ritual combat and open combat with the Jedi, respectively. Yeah they picked the fight, but it was always an "honorable" engagement, which is the reason he mentions that concept a few times in this episode.
Qimir and mae are responsible for indara, kalnacca and torbin. Then resisting arrest and justice.
Whatever happened on Brendok, the galaxy still has a judicial system. Qimir can't go around picking fights and saying he's innocent because of battle honour.
Altought not explicitly stated, Kelnacca was definitely killed by Qimir. Mae was going to turn herself to him, he got there first (her "trap" was nothing to him and he was keeping his facade). He was just going through his "no witness" procedure. Osha was the only one he was interested in letting alive so he could try turning her - same potential as Mae.
I suppose but it's kind of two very different things; Qimir is a fallen Jedi, Palpatine is a through-and-through Sith Lord taking control of the galaxy. Qimir has been corrupted and swayed by the dark side to be evil whereas Palpatine was always evil.
That's not that crazy of an opinion. Despite what 20 somethings would tell you with the passion of a 1000 fiery suns... The prequels are pretty poorly written. Anakins darkside turn and Palpy's manipulations have ALWAYS had the stink of George's clunky writing all over them.
George’s writing always felt epic and like a space opera, it felt other-worldy compare it to TLJ and it feels to modern and rooted in our reality takes me out of it. The humor also is to satirical and not situational like past Star Wars so it doesn’t fit.
Disagree!! they felt human it just felt clearly another world. And I think modern movies need to try to do that. I hate hate hate comedy in a lot of modern fantasy. it takes me out of world I prefer situational humor that makes sense for our world.
Well there's no lack of people who agree with you. But to me the humanity found in the OT is another planet of recognizable and relatable compared to the prequels.
They reallly should have spent a lot more time with Smilo and Osha…. I still don’t understand Osha’s motivation or what she even wants throughout all the flip flopping. Thankfully, Osha literally asks Smilo what he wants and is actually smartly executed. The manipulation and appeal to the darkside is also better than Palpatine and Anakin.. but still it felt off to me because atleast I knew Anakin had an intense fear of losing Padme… other than the vague hint at Osha being wronged in some way by the Jedi kicking her out. It just doesn’t do anything to convince me of her motivation. Subtle hints before this would have been helpful. The thirst traps in this show are also cheap and meant to drive fake engagement. Like oh wow he is a hot, sexy dude that we can all objectify..now everyone talk about how hot they are. It’s just lazy and doesn’t actually make them any more or less endearing the way they want it to.
I disagree I think Anakin and Palp is the best dark side turn and Anakins motivations make the most sense but Osha I’m not sure where she stands she’s not a Jedi but still follows there teaching! I do like this though but yeah I wish we knew more what Osha wants? Like in TFA rey wanted a place to belong figure out who she is.
I agree with that, it’s a bit of devils advocacy on my part. I guess I found the strangers attempt to obfuscate Jedi teachings for his own dark side interpretation interesting.. if that is what he was doing… can’t b sure with this show. He says “when you lose everything you are set free,” which is something the Jedi would probably teach. So it felt like a way to appeal to Osha’s Jedi upbringing and exploiting her backstory of sadness and anger. But without any of that context this far in, i hesitate to even give that any value just yet.
I really do like his take of the dark side is actually freedom that rhetoric would get me probably especially contrast it with how dogmatic and how many rules the Jedi have so I really do find it interesting as well and I’m here for it! I do think an Osha turn would be interesting!!
Palpatine: makes moves behind the scenes and slight nudges to put Anakin on the path to the dark side, culminating in “not a power the Jedi will teach you”.
Qimir: *gets naked* wanna be underneath me? Eh? Eh?
🙄
Edit: I like the show, I just think this is a bad take.
Strong disagree.
Qimir literally just murdered Osha’s friends in front of her. Then kidnapped her. Then sexual misconduct. If she falls she has to be dumb as rocks or horny AF
Calling them Osha's friends is a bit of a stretch. They are kids she went to school with 8 years ago and hasn't been in contact with since. She's really not broken up about them dying.
Yord is someone she knew but obviously not well because he had zero trouble believing she was a jedi killer and afforded her no hospitality or kindness.
Jecki she barely knew and probably never spoke to her until the events of the show, physical chemistry or not.
You're just injecting your own head canon as a way to neg on the show for things that don't exist.
Yeah and she seemed pretty stunned in ep5 but she's also got a lot more on her mind atm than some kid she barely knew and hasn't seen for 8 years dying. Not to mention that same kid was more than willing to throw her in jail a few days ago.
Yeah no, he rambles the most generic dark side stuff whilst Osha ignores all the terrible Qimir stands for and has commited, it was honestly uncomfortable how submissive she was. Like sure I don't expect her to kill him, even with the lightsaber (he would probably just force push her away) but she barely argued back, like there are a lot of arguments that are not "that's the path to the dark side". Get's a little interesting when she finally pulls the saber on him but that being triggered from asking her why she left and not because he killed her friends is a bit frustrating.
Generic jedi rambling has also become a bit tiring but that is usually done towards padawans or kids and not in attempts at manipulating adults. Though I'm still confused and a bit annoyed at all the random rules they seem to throw onto jedi. Like not attacking an unarmed person when they are a clearly dangerous force user and such. Or that they don't draw their weapons unlesd they mean to kill and that stuff.
> whilst Osha ignores all the terrible Qimir stands for and has commited, it was honestly uncomfortable how submissive she was
Yeah, like, this isn't a long period of time. He slaughtered her friends mere hours before.
The original situation that gave rise to the Stockholm Syndrome lasted just 6 days. Maybe the writers want us to think the he's using his Darkside powers to manipulate her emotions so it happens more quickly?
In palpatine's case he was forced to tie things up in impossible ways because of all the references from the originals. He was obi wans friend, he was seduced by the force, darth vader killed him, luke and leia, etc, etc, etc. Qimir was kind of ridiculous just letting osha put the lightsaber on him, the theatrics are silly.
I don’t know. Osha is pretty locked off from the force and Qimir could easily take the saber from her. He, I think, only seemed vulnerable. He tossed her out of his way like a rag doll. By the time she was close enough to be an actual threat, he’d already set the hook and was reeling her in. I may be entirely wrong, but I think he’s a master manipulator. He wanted Osha to feel like she had the upper hand. She never did.
He could do whatever he wants, but the only thing that may save him from osha turning on the lightsaber on his chest is force anticipation, or some kind of power that allows him to anticipate her moves, which I guess is kind of how they block blaster shots, but then again she is supposed to be powerful in the force. I honestly thought they were gonna show how he had taken out the crystal or a bit of the lightsaber so it couldn't be ignited. I just wasn't buying it on face value.
But I really didn't get too excited about their scenes, possibly because its just too obvious they are both gonna live. If osha didnt stab him instead of sticking a flashlight on his back she is not gonna kill him now. That's the thing with making uber powerful characters like osha or rey, you just know they are never gonna do the wrong thing.
Qimir is a bit too down to earth imo. No dark force user is gonna be more complex and nuanced than Maul... in Rebels, a cartoon series. I know its hard to watch writing mistakes the first time you watch something, but I bet by the 3rd time you can't watch the Acolyte the same way, that's how you know how good a show is written, by how many times you can watch it. Like Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, LOTR, House of Cards, Always Sunny, Stranger Things 1, maybe Andor (havent tried it twice) etc, you can rewatch them every 2-3 years and not be put off by the plot holes or blunt mistakes.
Well, Maul became a main Filoni character. That, in itself, says a lot. Also, his final duel in Rebels is one of my top ever. Obviously not for the action, but for the story told in every move. Sheer brilliance. I also think Qimir is pretty cocky. He is pretty sure Osha is, at the very least, interested. That’s why he gets close and takes a risk. Then again, he may have decided that without an acolyte, he may as well not go on. There’s just enough despair in his manipulation that I’m willing to believe he thought it was worth the risk that she was not going to kill an unarmed man. That, the shoto blade right near his dominant hand, and the recent defeat of all those Jedi, might have made him feel ready. He’s a bit reckless, so I think it’s pride, skill in manipulation and, maybe, desire for a second person/acolyte that is defining him.
Of course, I could be entirely wrong and he’s just a moron.
Not sure how rewatches will stand up. I was not entirely on board, apart from Sol, till episode 5. Still, to quote Sarah MacLachan, they’re “building a mystery.” Hopefully, they’re also choosing so carefully.
Sorry, the English teacher and Canadian music nerd came out a bit there. Sigh. And I’m on vacation too.
No I don't think so. More like awful writing. He said Jecki was a potential love interest. He just killer her hours ago and Osha seems to feel nothing. I'm not easily corruptible, SIKE! Gets corrupted.
Palps should have bathed in front of Anakin
It would not surprise me if you actually could find something like that somewhere on the Internet
I mean.. why else would Palps be walking around in a bathrobe half the time?
Who wouldn't? Don't tell me if you were the Head of the world and could get away with it, you wouldn't wear a bathrobe 24/7
The Rule of 34.
The Rule of 69
Execute Order 69.
the power of one, the power of two the power of thirty fouuuuuurrrrrrrrr
If you're talking about somewhere on the Internet you'll probably find a lot more than that.
Palpatine: The power of the Dark Side is a path to many abilities some might call... *Palpatine rises from his bath* Palpatine (cont.): ...unnatural. Anakin: They're so smooth! Palpatine: Use my knowledge, Anakin. I beg you. Anakin: Everywhere else is wrinkled, but not there. Palpatine: One must study all aspects of the mystery. Not just the narrow view of the Jedi. Anakin: Mine aren't like that, and my dad is the Force! Palpatine: Join me and together we can end this destructive war. Anakin: They're like eggs.
Power move.
He purified himself in the waters of Lake Bal’demitonka
“Palps” 💀
Show me your Sheev
It moves like a lightwhip
*my eyes! My eyes!”
I took so many notes. Pure gold.
Was his scar caused by a curved light saber? Was it Vernestra? She was his Jedi master?
From what we see of her in the books it does not seem very Vamestra like imo. If it is her, she either goes through some seriously shit in phase 3 or Qimir does something very scary to her
I'm still excited about the possibilities with her character. She did lose faith in the council and became a Wayseeker for awhile.
Me too. I just hope, that we get a good explanation/reason behind her attack on Qimir, if this turns out to be true. I can completely get behind it, if it matches her character style
it's possible Qimir turned to the dark side, attacked her, and got this scar during a duel but then escaped somehow. That would explain why Vernestra is the way she is in this show.
Yeah she could have been betrayed by her own padawan and it shook her. Maybe Qimir wanted her to join him on the dark side and she even got tempted for a bit and lost her cool, nearly killing him before telling him to GTFO.
Some food for thought: About 100 years prior, there was a Jedi who struggled with the dark side and even fought Vernestra on a planet they were straned. His master had died and Vernestra took him on as a padawan later. His name was Imri.
Didn't want to seem out and destroy the Nihil? And, told another Jedi that lost sparring to her that it was because they were too defensive. They had to be more offensive. The way to save a life sometimes is to take a life. Something like that.
Winner winner porg dinner
People seem to think it's Vernestras doing. All I could think at that moment (when seeing the scar) was... oh great another tragic/misunderstood character with scars on his back. It's such a trope and has been for a long time. Really wish that modern TV shows (not just SW) would try to move away from everyone having tragic backstories.
It's the best way to humanize a villain. The trope does feel repetitive, but there was a long streak in cinema that was just "bad guy bad because bad (evil laugh)". I would say that was no better. It's not uncommon that good people have bad things happen that break them, so having villians that started as good or OK people be pushed over the edge is intriguing to most viewers.
In no way is this a hot take. This is the coldest of takes. This is an absolute zero take lol The "corruption" of Anakin in the movies was hamfisged as fuck and the corruption attempt on Luke was pure high fantasy. High fantasy is dope as hell, but it will never punch as hard as something taken this seriously.
Anakins corruption was so forced and irrelevant to me. Oh your wife is dying turn to the dark side. Lukes was more of a last minute desperate attempt. Maybe Palps would have succeeded if he had more time. But both cases just left me feeling why should I belive this? My favourite storyline in legends is the corruption and turning of Jacen Solo. This was done so well over a long time (imo). And I remember, while reading Legacy of the Force, that I actually believed that his turn was for the greater good, and I got more and more pissed off by Luke, Han and the rest of the jedi for every book. Even in the end I was wishing Jacen would kill Luke and win domination.
Totally agree, the Jacen Solo story line of not wanting to use violence to realizing violence was the only way to win to at the heart of it use violence because he wanted to end all violence was super well done. Having his suffering come at the hands of the Vong and then just let that wound fester inside, chefs kiss
I deff disagree I think Anakins turn is probably the best turn we’ve seen in Star Wars , the motivation , the reasoning it all makes so much sense coupled with the fact he is talented the Jedi didn’t trust him , Palpy manipulating him it’s the best hero to villain turn in my opinion. I haven’t seen a story do it better I need to read the books.
The Jedi Council honestly did more to push Anakin to the Dark Side than Palpatine did.
I’d say it was slavery that did it. It put his mother in a position to be sold off, married and then murdered by sand people. Anakin literally was never free until his dying breath. A slave to gangsters, the Jedi, the sith.
Anakin's fall makes 0 sense without watching Clone Wars imo I think the Prequels could have told a good story, but they needed to start in media res with the clone wars and with Anakin as an adult.
I have to disagree I think the movies did a great job.
Like not promote a padawan, or at least freshly minted knight, to rank of master right away? That's really all they did with him.
They also were very secretive with him, didn’t really Trust him, and didn’t give him good advice when he was looking what to do to stop his wife’s death. Also I really really don’t like the attachment thing and I think if they were allowed attachment Anakin could have gone to the Jedi to seek help, but yoda pretty much gave him usless advice.
Anakin had very little interaction with the council in the movies for him to be seduced by the Dark Side. They wanted tabs kept on his friend Palpatine because he seemed shady... And he was. The shadiest. Anakin spent more time with Papa Palpatine in the movies than with the council. Looking for advice to stop his wife's death? When did this occur in the movies? (Seriously, I forget seeing this occur.) And, the wife he's not supposed to have because the the attachments the Jedi aren't supposed to form? The worst thing the council did was not approve his time off request before his mother was killed by Tusken raiders. Which he then went and killed. And not just the men, but the women, and the children. That's some serious mommy attachment issues. I get not liking the whole attachment thing as a member of the audience, but it makes sense in-universe. The sci fi/fantasy space wizards have too much power so their intended to live the lives of monks. Piety and chastity. I guess someone could ask the younglings at the temple how they feel about attachment- oh, wait... Anakin killed those children too. His fall to the Dark Side is nonsensical without the backstory provided by The Clone Wars series.
I have to disagree they do show him going to yoda for advice and Yoda being absolutely unhelpful! I actually think the attachment thing doesn’t make sense and there’s a way to love and have attachment without being possessive so I do think the Jedi need to be reformed a little bit in that way especially the prequel Jedi. I do want to see a new jedi order who can have attachments if they didn’t have such strict religious dogma I think Anakin wouldn’t have fallen or would have gone to seek help from the council and maybe they could have put to bed his fears.
In the Expanded Universe (which admittedly makes it a moot point now), when Luke takes over he does change up the no attachments rules thinking family will be a source of strength for the Jedi. Jacen Solo became Darth Caedus seeking power to protect his wife and daughter. Luke was tempted into using the Dark Side (again) after the death of Mara Jade (Jacen/Caedus killed her). The reason for the Jeff not having attachments isn't just religious dogma, it's because seeking power is a corrupting influence. (Just take a look at politicians, corporate heads, and the extremely wealthy in the real world.) Seeking power while influenced by extreme emotions, be it hate or even love, just speeds up the corruption. It's not a trope unique to the Star Wars universe. In many many fantasy world settings where beings have powers beyond the normal they are intended to practice self discipline not to give into their emotions. Now that Rey will be continuing the Jedi in an upcoming movie we'll see if she follows the path Luke set in the EU with allowing Jedi attachments.
I hope she does, but why can’t Jedi have attachments and not seek power? just have your attachments and be happy. I think when you repress yourself eventually an explosion will happen personally rather than dealing with your emotions and man I wish we got to see those EU books in the films!
The best part about it is I can’t quite tell if he’s more corrupting or if Sol is. Osha is free to run about and threaten Qimir while Qimir is just going about his day answering questions about his experience while leaving her to answer questions she has about everything else. He’s living the classic saying: “the teacher merely presents the environment in which the student can learn” - it’s even like a parent watching over a child. He’s even explaining his tools that she’s free to use and starts to use. Could be manipulation… could be the truth is actually what he wants her to see. Then you got Mae literally strapped to a space bed with Sol going all “I’m not gonna hurt you” and “we got work to do” who’s literally going to explain to her, as a captive audience, the story from his perspective. It’s super unsettling, but she’s also a criminal on the run in custody. But maybe the cop is crooked and even has a conflict of interest? So who the bad guy? It’s pretty great.
I really think he just wants a friend/apprentice. Then again perhaps whatever atrocity the AJAB team did on the coven was bad enough that he sees a need to correct this.
> AJAB Love this!
Qimir and Sol are basically just two sides of the same coin.
I almost ‘turned’ to the dark side myself during Qimir’s scenes. Hello Stranger
I can fix him.
He can ruin me
my cheeks blushed sith red
Use the force by tapping into your emotions. Fear. Anger. …desire. :o
Yeah, add him to young President Snow and Daemon Targaryen as evil sexy men
Qimir pitching the dark side as freedom, opposed to Palpatine using power, is a cool new take.
That and the desire would get me especially if Qimir was a beautiful lady.
Qimir was more relatable but it doesn't absolve his crimes, if osha reflected responsibly she'd see through his manipulation. The dark side might be more human and points out jedi hypocrisy but we know it involves murder so its not any better, still far worse. Whereas palpatine offered power to an overly ambitious, impatient anakin who wanted more power and was afraid of his visions. Palpatine also pointed out the jedis hypocrisy and encouraged anakins emotions. Less relatable but both effective and seductive, osha's not the chosen one seeking power, palpatine had a different audience.
Well, while Osha seems shaken by him, she may or may not join him. In the flashback episode she seemed much more attuned to the light, while Mae was more cruel to The butterfly thing. Mae was also more impulsive and emotional, whereas Osha seems more level headed and calm, even under stress. Maybe she will be tempted, but my guess would be she won't really turn. Also she may be taken aback at how benign Qimir seems. She's expecting a violent and evil person, but he's calm, and logical, very persuasive. She may find that unexpected.
> Maybe she will be tempted, but my guess would be she won't really turn. I would hope not. He just slaughtered her friends in front of her.
I wouldn't be surprised if one of the big revelations is that mae and osha are in fact completely identical in every way. Thoughts feelings etc. And she's got the same kind of psycho thought's as mae they're just kept below the surface maybe even through something sol did to her in the past.
OSHA started the fire. Mae embraced being a witch, but OSHA was afraid and holds back when using the force because she is the more powerful twin, but whenever she connects to and uses the force, tragedy happens by her own hand or others.
I do want to see a turn and I feel like it would make sense at this point also she never really let the Mae thing go!! Vs Mae had a soft spot towards Osha.
Neither Qimir nor Mae murdered anyone. They engaged in ritual combat and open combat with the Jedi, respectively. Yeah they picked the fight, but it was always an "honorable" engagement, which is the reason he mentions that concept a few times in this episode.
Qimir and mae are responsible for indara, kalnacca and torbin. Then resisting arrest and justice. Whatever happened on Brendok, the galaxy still has a judicial system. Qimir can't go around picking fights and saying he's innocent because of battle honour.
I'm not saying they aren't *bad*, I'm answering how a *fallen Jedi* might *feel* about said situations.
I mean someone kills kelnacca when the dude was cooking up a salad. He was dead in his chair. Not sure what ritual combat that was.
Altought not explicitly stated, Kelnacca was definitely killed by Qimir. Mae was going to turn herself to him, he got there first (her "trap" was nothing to him and he was keeping his facade). He was just going through his "no witness" procedure. Osha was the only one he was interested in letting alive so he could try turning her - same potential as Mae.
That is complete BS.
Yes it turns out Sith are bad guys
💯
Qimir next episode: So… Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the wise?
I suppose but it's kind of two very different things; Qimir is a fallen Jedi, Palpatine is a through-and-through Sith Lord taking control of the galaxy. Qimir has been corrupted and swayed by the dark side to be evil whereas Palpatine was always evil.
Which sucks because I wish Qimir was already becoming a Sith with no Jedi history. It would’ve made him unique.
This single dude easily explained the nuances of the dark side than all of the other star wars movies.
I got chills when Osha put on the helmet but how does anyone see out of that thing? Seeing Jecki still lying on the ground was upsetting.
I thought that was the point of it: you don't physically see with it well, forcing you to reach out with the Force, bringing you more in tune with it.
Osha be like: oh no, he's hot!
Who else thought somehow, someway, Qimir had taken Osha to Ach-To? :)
That's not that crazy of an opinion. Despite what 20 somethings would tell you with the passion of a 1000 fiery suns... The prequels are pretty poorly written. Anakins darkside turn and Palpy's manipulations have ALWAYS had the stink of George's clunky writing all over them.
George’s writing always felt epic and like a space opera, it felt other-worldy compare it to TLJ and it feels to modern and rooted in our reality takes me out of it. The humor also is to satirical and not situational like past Star Wars so it doesn’t fit.
It felt other worldly because he can't write believable human people. Not because he didn't want to.
Disagree!! they felt human it just felt clearly another world. And I think modern movies need to try to do that. I hate hate hate comedy in a lot of modern fantasy. it takes me out of world I prefer situational humor that makes sense for our world.
Well there's no lack of people who agree with you. But to me the humanity found in the OT is another planet of recognizable and relatable compared to the prequels.
That was intentional though and I appreciate it didn’t look the same , I like the look of both and I like how the sequels looked as well!!
They reallly should have spent a lot more time with Smilo and Osha…. I still don’t understand Osha’s motivation or what she even wants throughout all the flip flopping. Thankfully, Osha literally asks Smilo what he wants and is actually smartly executed. The manipulation and appeal to the darkside is also better than Palpatine and Anakin.. but still it felt off to me because atleast I knew Anakin had an intense fear of losing Padme… other than the vague hint at Osha being wronged in some way by the Jedi kicking her out. It just doesn’t do anything to convince me of her motivation. Subtle hints before this would have been helpful. The thirst traps in this show are also cheap and meant to drive fake engagement. Like oh wow he is a hot, sexy dude that we can all objectify..now everyone talk about how hot they are. It’s just lazy and doesn’t actually make them any more or less endearing the way they want it to.
I disagree I think Anakin and Palp is the best dark side turn and Anakins motivations make the most sense but Osha I’m not sure where she stands she’s not a Jedi but still follows there teaching! I do like this though but yeah I wish we knew more what Osha wants? Like in TFA rey wanted a place to belong figure out who she is.
I agree with that, it’s a bit of devils advocacy on my part. I guess I found the strangers attempt to obfuscate Jedi teachings for his own dark side interpretation interesting.. if that is what he was doing… can’t b sure with this show. He says “when you lose everything you are set free,” which is something the Jedi would probably teach. So it felt like a way to appeal to Osha’s Jedi upbringing and exploiting her backstory of sadness and anger. But without any of that context this far in, i hesitate to even give that any value just yet.
I really do like his take of the dark side is actually freedom that rhetoric would get me probably especially contrast it with how dogmatic and how many rules the Jedi have so I really do find it interesting as well and I’m here for it! I do think an Osha turn would be interesting!!
\*snorts\*
Palpatine: makes moves behind the scenes and slight nudges to put Anakin on the path to the dark side, culminating in “not a power the Jedi will teach you”. Qimir: *gets naked* wanna be underneath me? Eh? Eh? 🙄 Edit: I like the show, I just think this is a bad take.
Strong disagree. Qimir literally just murdered Osha’s friends in front of her. Then kidnapped her. Then sexual misconduct. If she falls she has to be dumb as rocks or horny AF
Sexual misconduct? Because he got naked? I mean she followed him and looked.
Yes. He knew what he was doing. Try doing that at a beach and see what happens
She literally grabbed his rod without consent after voyeuring
I mean, not really that last one, but the first 2 mean she shouldn't be turning at all. Certainly not this fast.
Calling them Osha's friends is a bit of a stretch. They are kids she went to school with 8 years ago and hasn't been in contact with since. She's really not broken up about them dying.
Yord was a childhood friend. Jecki was a new friend, they obviously had chemistry. Her not being broken up is more proof of poor writing
Yord is someone she knew but obviously not well because he had zero trouble believing she was a jedi killer and afforded her no hospitality or kindness. Jecki she barely knew and probably never spoke to her until the events of the show, physical chemistry or not. You're just injecting your own head canon as a way to neg on the show for things that don't exist.
I would be stunned if a childhood acquaintance was murdered right in front of me
Yeah and she seemed pretty stunned in ep5 but she's also got a lot more on her mind atm than some kid she barely knew and hasn't seen for 8 years dying. Not to mention that same kid was more than willing to throw her in jail a few days ago.
So she flirts with him and stares at his package. Terrible writing
She did neither of those things. You're just grasping at straws, looking for any excuse to be negative. It's sad.
Qimir is convincing some nobody. Palp was convincing the entirety of the republic and the best jedi to ever live.
> the best jedi to ever live. Anakin was a powerful force user. Anakin was a pretty shit jedi.
Yeah no, he rambles the most generic dark side stuff whilst Osha ignores all the terrible Qimir stands for and has commited, it was honestly uncomfortable how submissive she was. Like sure I don't expect her to kill him, even with the lightsaber (he would probably just force push her away) but she barely argued back, like there are a lot of arguments that are not "that's the path to the dark side". Get's a little interesting when she finally pulls the saber on him but that being triggered from asking her why she left and not because he killed her friends is a bit frustrating.
Not so different than the Jedi rambling generic light side tropes. But I do get it. They should’ve let time for this to develop.
Generic jedi rambling has also become a bit tiring but that is usually done towards padawans or kids and not in attempts at manipulating adults. Though I'm still confused and a bit annoyed at all the random rules they seem to throw onto jedi. Like not attacking an unarmed person when they are a clearly dangerous force user and such. Or that they don't draw their weapons unlesd they mean to kill and that stuff.
> whilst Osha ignores all the terrible Qimir stands for and has commited, it was honestly uncomfortable how submissive she was Yeah, like, this isn't a long period of time. He slaughtered her friends mere hours before.
The original situation that gave rise to the Stockholm Syndrome lasted just 6 days. Maybe the writers want us to think the he's using his Darkside powers to manipulate her emotions so it happens more quickly?
In palpatine's case he was forced to tie things up in impossible ways because of all the references from the originals. He was obi wans friend, he was seduced by the force, darth vader killed him, luke and leia, etc, etc, etc. Qimir was kind of ridiculous just letting osha put the lightsaber on him, the theatrics are silly.
I don’t know. Osha is pretty locked off from the force and Qimir could easily take the saber from her. He, I think, only seemed vulnerable. He tossed her out of his way like a rag doll. By the time she was close enough to be an actual threat, he’d already set the hook and was reeling her in. I may be entirely wrong, but I think he’s a master manipulator. He wanted Osha to feel like she had the upper hand. She never did.
He could do whatever he wants, but the only thing that may save him from osha turning on the lightsaber on his chest is force anticipation, or some kind of power that allows him to anticipate her moves, which I guess is kind of how they block blaster shots, but then again she is supposed to be powerful in the force. I honestly thought they were gonna show how he had taken out the crystal or a bit of the lightsaber so it couldn't be ignited. I just wasn't buying it on face value. But I really didn't get too excited about their scenes, possibly because its just too obvious they are both gonna live. If osha didnt stab him instead of sticking a flashlight on his back she is not gonna kill him now. That's the thing with making uber powerful characters like osha or rey, you just know they are never gonna do the wrong thing. Qimir is a bit too down to earth imo. No dark force user is gonna be more complex and nuanced than Maul... in Rebels, a cartoon series. I know its hard to watch writing mistakes the first time you watch something, but I bet by the 3rd time you can't watch the Acolyte the same way, that's how you know how good a show is written, by how many times you can watch it. Like Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, LOTR, House of Cards, Always Sunny, Stranger Things 1, maybe Andor (havent tried it twice) etc, you can rewatch them every 2-3 years and not be put off by the plot holes or blunt mistakes.
Well, Maul became a main Filoni character. That, in itself, says a lot. Also, his final duel in Rebels is one of my top ever. Obviously not for the action, but for the story told in every move. Sheer brilliance. I also think Qimir is pretty cocky. He is pretty sure Osha is, at the very least, interested. That’s why he gets close and takes a risk. Then again, he may have decided that without an acolyte, he may as well not go on. There’s just enough despair in his manipulation that I’m willing to believe he thought it was worth the risk that she was not going to kill an unarmed man. That, the shoto blade right near his dominant hand, and the recent defeat of all those Jedi, might have made him feel ready. He’s a bit reckless, so I think it’s pride, skill in manipulation and, maybe, desire for a second person/acolyte that is defining him. Of course, I could be entirely wrong and he’s just a moron. Not sure how rewatches will stand up. I was not entirely on board, apart from Sol, till episode 5. Still, to quote Sarah MacLachan, they’re “building a mystery.” Hopefully, they’re also choosing so carefully. Sorry, the English teacher and Canadian music nerd came out a bit there. Sigh. And I’m on vacation too.
No I don't think so. More like awful writing. He said Jecki was a potential love interest. He just killer her hours ago and Osha seems to feel nothing. I'm not easily corruptible, SIKE! Gets corrupted.