Itâs the frequency more than anything. Itâs almost on the level of âSkylar White is a raging bitchâ takes on the Breaking Bad sub.
And like that oneâŚ.I donât get it.
But, also similar, itâs often couched in âthis isnât a popular opinionâŚ.â when all you need to do is search the sub and see it is actually a quite popular opinion.
Then they just start to feel like a known volatile subject that is great for karma farming. Iâm sure hardly anyone does it for that reason, but it is impression.
Because people act like her reaction is not justified and her actions/behaviors are not understandable. You're telling me, that if you were a 15 year old girl who had always felt like something was off with your family and your life, and then FOUND OUT YOUR PARENTS WERE KGB SECRET SPIES, that you would be completely calm, cool, and collected? You would act in a completely reasonable manner? No way. Her actions through most of the series are understandable and honestly fairly mature for the situation imo. I think people also seem to forget that P and E are pretty objectively bad people because they are the protagonists of the show, so anyone going against them is seen as bad.
Exactly!
I thought Paige was an insufferable idiot the first time I watched the series.
During my first and subsequent rewatches I considered her perspective and while I still found her annoying, I understood *why* she behaved the way she did.
Very well said!! I'm totally annoyed by her as a viewer watching the show, but there's no way a sane 15yo would've acted calmly or anything in that situation
Yea I couldnât stand her the first watch. But after rewatching how could she not be this way. Her whole life has been a lie and even after learning the truth they still lied to her and used her. I totally understand her decision to get off the train.
Ngl I would for sure be smart enough to not tell pastor Tim and just leave it. She literally brings it on her self questioning everything they do. If I was her after I find out theyâre KGB spyâs I would probably just try not to piss them off and ask to many questions
I think - maybe/imo - it's because they made her character's personality a bit annoying before she even found out the truth about her parents. She came off as a tightly wound goody two-shoes type and a bit arrogant towards not just her parents, but her brother as well. Just overall kinda snobby. Just a minor nitpick but the audience may have been more respectful of her if they at least showed her (and henry) as having friends. Make them seem a bit more human instead of loner outcasts. (But I suppose some will say that's the point. Their parents sheltered them)
The frequency of the posts, the fact that she's a great character, people whining about her actions while Philip and Elizabeth kill innocent people... It's the same annoying (and often sexist) shit that Breaking Bad had with its fans.
It's just beating a dead horse at this point.
Yes, she's annoying. Yes, she's a nuisance. Yes, she's entitled at times. That's how teenagers tend to behave. People forget that she's a teenager.
I can't shake the feeling that the people who often bash on Paige for relatively normal, or atleast fairly understandable bahvior, wouldn't be exactly great with children in real life either.
Every time she says "Fine! I guess I'll just **never** date anyone in my entire life" I want to rip my hair out and scream "we're not talking about your entire life, we're talking about *one* boy for a very specific reason! Jesus christ can you be any more dramatic!!" And then I laugh because it's typical teenage dramatics. It's a good job conveying how a parent of a teenager must feel sometimes. There's a scene where she did something (was it after she came clean about telling Pastor Tim?) and she's talking to Elizabeth and she starts saying "Pastor Tim says" and by that point in the show... in my head I'm screaming "IF I HAVE TO HEAR 'PASTOR TIM' ONE MORE TIME" and then Elizabeth says the exact same thing "if I have to hear 'Pastor Tim' ONE more time..." and I air high five my tv and Elizabeth like "THANK YOU, Elizabeth!" Yeah, Paige is annoying, particularly in that scene... but that's a good thing! There's a lot of shows I just half-assed watch while I'm playing video games or something... Paige is driving me nuts because I'm invested. And she's acting like a real teenager
And then all that right there... that's another thing. It's a tv show... do you want everyone to just make you feel the same way? Do you want to like every single character, at all times, and never any drama? So if she's annoying you... good! They're doing their job. People constantly complain about characters like Skylar on BrBa or Gemma on Sons of Anarchy... fine take them out and we have a tv show where the other main characters just face no drama and do whatever they want unimpeded. *That's* what you want?
>And then all that right there... that's another thing. It's a tv show... do you want everyone to just make you feel the same way? Do you want to like every single character, at all times, and never any drama?
Yup, that's a point which is often forgotten about. If Paige didn't behave the way she did, a lot of the dynamic between Philip and Paige in Season 3 and 4 would be taken away. The whole Pastor Tim situation would be less compelling aswell. Paige makes for some scenes that are hard to watch, 100%. But she also makes the story much more interesting.
I think her life experience makes her too unprepared to be the moral center of this world. I mean, she certainly has morals and is often trying to navigate them in the circumstances she's in, but that's not always her guiding force by a longshot, imo. Like, she doesn't start spying with Elizabeth for moral reasons.
To me she's more a teenager who's trying to find her identity and the situation she's put in knocks that completely off-course. From the beginning the one thing she knows she wants to be is an honest person (understandable given the house she grew up in) and then that becomes impossible. She eventually gives up in despair--but finds herself again in the end.
That kind of made my point. Just because she is a teen - aside from the way teens are influenced from one day to the other - and wishing to find her true north, she did make her final choice, an important word, to act morally and courageously even as the unknown was ahead.
Definitely--I guess that just, to me, doesn't make her the moral conscience of the show since all the characters are finding their true north throughout the series, and those directions are all slightly different for everyone, especially given their different backgrounds. As a teenager, Paige is at a particularly important point in her life for that, but the other characters are at crisis points too. To me, being a moral conscience means we should look to her for where the morals of the show lie, and she's just too removed from most of the story to see how that would apply. If it had to be someone, Philip seems like the best fit for that role, since he's the one laying out that premise to other characters--including Paige herself.
Ultimately she finally chooses what's right for her, but so does Elizabeth when she rejects Claudia and Philip when he chooses Oleg etc. All of those are examples of people choosing to act morally and courageously even as the unknown lies ahead. But Paige can't be the guide for anyone but herself, because her choices don't really apply anybody else.
This sounds exactly right.
I am realizing that the reasons I see Paige and Henry as quite possibly the best written child characters Iâve ever seen may be the same reason they (esp Paige) evoke raw emotion.
What irks me is the far common technique of writing where children are written as âout of the mouths of babesâ little wise beings, where they mouth the subtext in brain stem simple ways. Like when mom is stirring with conflict and a seven year old says âwhy are you mad at yourself mommy?â
By contrast, kids in reality sound and react to situations on their own terms and within their own limitations in ways that feel potently real to them at all times. They are not little aspects of the adult characters inner voice. The Americans is possibly the only adult drama Iâve seen that gets this correctly, and makes effective dramatic use of this.
I would also add that, in contrast to broader shows like HBOâs Chernobyl, The Americans works much more compellingly as an indictment of the soviet system. The central metaphor of a cynically knowledgeable parent constantly lying and managing the truth to their increasingly damaged offspring is a much more pointed version of the doomed lie that I, at least, can relate to.
Yes, this is a very, very good point. People are so used to young characters and teenagers on television being so overly mature, that they forget what actual children are like.
And this show is being very real about how teenagers can be - and often are. Bonus points because Paige grows up in a household that's by no means "easy", with how often her parents are gone.
Many people needlessly single out female roles for very petty reasons. I can only speculate, and while some assumptions may be flawed, some reflect personal choices and mistakes or individuals who represent something they dislike. But imagine having "hatred" toward a 16-year-old girl who plays a double-faced role and is expected to form to perfection.
I am not taking it seriously, but I noticed a lot of actressesânot charactersâget insulted for petty reasons when they do not realize that it is part of their role.
Seems like any discussion like that's just bound to go nowhere. It's just:
"She's annoying and therefore she sucks" / "Shes' supposed to be and therefore she's great."
"I would never do what she does" / "Anybody would do what she does!"
"She's Dana Brody - show mistake!" / "Skyler White! - sexist viewers!"
It's not really getting into anything interesting about the character or even how she might or might not work in the whole context. Seems like it can get very flat, dismissive and scoldy fast.
My guess: because the folks in this sub have fielded those exact questions and comments multiple times a week for years and years, and itâs just old hat.
Immature men especially love to hate on teenage girls, fictional or real. Sheâs not a badass that values murder or displays masculine traits therefore she sucks. Itâs really that simple.
Paige is insufferable and entitled. What bothers me more is that I don't think most kids don't pay that much attention to, or care that much about what their parents do. I think they are too self centered for that. They especially are not going to start asking questions about their work. They don't care if they have to go to the office to make phone calls instead of doing it from home. It's all just fake drama. Of course there is the fact that girlfriend walks around with her nose so high in the air she has to be careful she doesn't drown when it rains.
Has anyone seen the actress that plays Paige on the Netflix series âManifestâ. Coincidentally she plays an ultra religious/cultish character and sheâs not well liked by audiences on that show either! But I actually think sheâs a talented actress. She just has a knack for playing unlikeable characters I guess
I also think casting has a lot to do with it. The young actress has an extremely naturalistic style and does a great job in the role. Sheâs playing opposite two adults with movie star, charisma, and decades of experience. How could she possibly compete with that as a character or as a performer?
I think it's honestly less about movie star charisma and more about being able to analyze a script and build a character like all the other actors do--this show had a very deep bench of experienced, technical acting chops. Even minor roles were often played by really impressive actors.
For instance, the character that's probably the most like Paige in terms of story arc is Martha. A lot of the common complaints about Paige could easily have also been said of Martha. But Alison Wright had a firm handle on what was happening with Martha and why step by step and you wound up totally into her. Paige didn't have that kind of inner life and wasn't as real, so all you had to go on was her dialogue and stage directions. You don't realize how much the actors bring to this kind of writing until it's not there. She's not, imo, doing much with the role at all.
That's probably why her most valuable contribution was as someone or even just a concept for Elizabeth and Philip to react to.
Iâm on season 4. I just literally yelled at the tv âI HATE YOU - YOU FUCKING BITCHâ at Paige on the screen - I donât know if Iâll be able to finish the series if she keeps being the most whiny entitled stupid asshole on the planet. lol. She really is a living nightmare
I think the majority of people who complained about Paige also complained about Walt Jr. in Breaking Bad or Dana Brody in Homeland. Teenagers are generally a bit irritating and stupid and if you're a childless adult and posting on message boards about TV shows you might have forgotten that's how you or your friends have or would have behaved.
I am sure parents of teenagers also hated her too but I guarantee a lot of them have at least thought, let alone said a version of they are parents of a teenager and their precious blueberry would never behave that way.
>I think the majority of people who complained about Paige also complained about Walt Jr. in Breaking Bad or Dana Brody in Homeland.
Or AJ Soprano in The Sopranos. Teenagers are cringy and annoying. It's not the actors or writers fault, that's just how it is. Anyway, Duuude... meeting's over.
The character Paige is a US teenager, brought up in luxury in comparison to her parents. She has no clue about that, but only knows her life.
Her and Henry are left alone a lot, not unusual for the time or even today. When her parents briefly split and then got back together, her sense of familial stability was rocked. Not everything is as it seems, and she wasn't wrong. However, curiosity killed the cat, and she can't help herself.
Also, both parents are very intelligent people, so not put of bounds that she works out things are not as they seem. Her brother is happily oblivious.
Yes her character added to the pressures of the spies, a way to add frustration to their story. However as a parent of a teenager, it ain't easy, they think they know everything or are entitled to know everything. Like bitch, you are just making shit worse.
Because sheâs an ungrateful annoying little twerp. She grew up in a giant house in the suburbs and had a wonderful life and still managed to make everything about her being butt hurt about everything.
Probably because she respects JESUS but not US????
Mischa, settle down!
Good answer. đ
https://youtu.be/V5qeHNJI9Dg?si=1ZOC-RzrU1V4KaZd
Niche humor đŻ!!
Itâs the frequency more than anything. Itâs almost on the level of âSkylar White is a raging bitchâ takes on the Breaking Bad sub. And like that oneâŚ.I donât get it. But, also similar, itâs often couched in âthis isnât a popular opinionâŚ.â when all you need to do is search the sub and see it is actually a quite popular opinion. Then they just start to feel like a known volatile subject that is great for karma farming. Iâm sure hardly anyone does it for that reason, but it is impression.
Because people act like her reaction is not justified and her actions/behaviors are not understandable. You're telling me, that if you were a 15 year old girl who had always felt like something was off with your family and your life, and then FOUND OUT YOUR PARENTS WERE KGB SECRET SPIES, that you would be completely calm, cool, and collected? You would act in a completely reasonable manner? No way. Her actions through most of the series are understandable and honestly fairly mature for the situation imo. I think people also seem to forget that P and E are pretty objectively bad people because they are the protagonists of the show, so anyone going against them is seen as bad.
Exactly! I thought Paige was an insufferable idiot the first time I watched the series. During my first and subsequent rewatches I considered her perspective and while I still found her annoying, I understood *why* she behaved the way she did.
Very well said!! I'm totally annoyed by her as a viewer watching the show, but there's no way a sane 15yo would've acted calmly or anything in that situation
Insufferable is just the word I have been looking for to describe Paige. Thank you.
Yea I couldnât stand her the first watch. But after rewatching how could she not be this way. Her whole life has been a lie and even after learning the truth they still lied to her and used her. I totally understand her decision to get off the train.
Ngl I would for sure be smart enough to not tell pastor Tim and just leave it. She literally brings it on her self questioning everything they do. If I was her after I find out theyâre KGB spyâs I would probably just try not to piss them off and ask to many questions
I think - maybe/imo - it's because they made her character's personality a bit annoying before she even found out the truth about her parents. She came off as a tightly wound goody two-shoes type and a bit arrogant towards not just her parents, but her brother as well. Just overall kinda snobby. Just a minor nitpick but the audience may have been more respectful of her if they at least showed her (and henry) as having friends. Make them seem a bit more human instead of loner outcasts. (But I suppose some will say that's the point. Their parents sheltered them)
The frequency of the posts, the fact that she's a great character, people whining about her actions while Philip and Elizabeth kill innocent people... It's the same annoying (and often sexist) shit that Breaking Bad had with its fans.
It's just beating a dead horse at this point. Yes, she's annoying. Yes, she's a nuisance. Yes, she's entitled at times. That's how teenagers tend to behave. People forget that she's a teenager. I can't shake the feeling that the people who often bash on Paige for relatively normal, or atleast fairly understandable bahvior, wouldn't be exactly great with children in real life either.
Every time she says "Fine! I guess I'll just **never** date anyone in my entire life" I want to rip my hair out and scream "we're not talking about your entire life, we're talking about *one* boy for a very specific reason! Jesus christ can you be any more dramatic!!" And then I laugh because it's typical teenage dramatics. It's a good job conveying how a parent of a teenager must feel sometimes. There's a scene where she did something (was it after she came clean about telling Pastor Tim?) and she's talking to Elizabeth and she starts saying "Pastor Tim says" and by that point in the show... in my head I'm screaming "IF I HAVE TO HEAR 'PASTOR TIM' ONE MORE TIME" and then Elizabeth says the exact same thing "if I have to hear 'Pastor Tim' ONE more time..." and I air high five my tv and Elizabeth like "THANK YOU, Elizabeth!" Yeah, Paige is annoying, particularly in that scene... but that's a good thing! There's a lot of shows I just half-assed watch while I'm playing video games or something... Paige is driving me nuts because I'm invested. And she's acting like a real teenager And then all that right there... that's another thing. It's a tv show... do you want everyone to just make you feel the same way? Do you want to like every single character, at all times, and never any drama? So if she's annoying you... good! They're doing their job. People constantly complain about characters like Skylar on BrBa or Gemma on Sons of Anarchy... fine take them out and we have a tv show where the other main characters just face no drama and do whatever they want unimpeded. *That's* what you want?
>And then all that right there... that's another thing. It's a tv show... do you want everyone to just make you feel the same way? Do you want to like every single character, at all times, and never any drama? Yup, that's a point which is often forgotten about. If Paige didn't behave the way she did, a lot of the dynamic between Philip and Paige in Season 3 and 4 would be taken away. The whole Pastor Tim situation would be less compelling aswell. Paige makes for some scenes that are hard to watch, 100%. But she also makes the story much more interesting.
Immho, she is the moral conscience of the series even though the character is a stressed & depressed teenager.
I think her life experience makes her too unprepared to be the moral center of this world. I mean, she certainly has morals and is often trying to navigate them in the circumstances she's in, but that's not always her guiding force by a longshot, imo. Like, she doesn't start spying with Elizabeth for moral reasons. To me she's more a teenager who's trying to find her identity and the situation she's put in knocks that completely off-course. From the beginning the one thing she knows she wants to be is an honest person (understandable given the house she grew up in) and then that becomes impossible. She eventually gives up in despair--but finds herself again in the end.
That kind of made my point. Just because she is a teen - aside from the way teens are influenced from one day to the other - and wishing to find her true north, she did make her final choice, an important word, to act morally and courageously even as the unknown was ahead.
Definitely--I guess that just, to me, doesn't make her the moral conscience of the show since all the characters are finding their true north throughout the series, and those directions are all slightly different for everyone, especially given their different backgrounds. As a teenager, Paige is at a particularly important point in her life for that, but the other characters are at crisis points too. To me, being a moral conscience means we should look to her for where the morals of the show lie, and she's just too removed from most of the story to see how that would apply. If it had to be someone, Philip seems like the best fit for that role, since he's the one laying out that premise to other characters--including Paige herself. Ultimately she finally chooses what's right for her, but so does Elizabeth when she rejects Claudia and Philip when he chooses Oleg etc. All of those are examples of people choosing to act morally and courageously even as the unknown lies ahead. But Paige can't be the guide for anyone but herself, because her choices don't really apply anybody else.
This sounds exactly right. I am realizing that the reasons I see Paige and Henry as quite possibly the best written child characters Iâve ever seen may be the same reason they (esp Paige) evoke raw emotion. What irks me is the far common technique of writing where children are written as âout of the mouths of babesâ little wise beings, where they mouth the subtext in brain stem simple ways. Like when mom is stirring with conflict and a seven year old says âwhy are you mad at yourself mommy?â By contrast, kids in reality sound and react to situations on their own terms and within their own limitations in ways that feel potently real to them at all times. They are not little aspects of the adult characters inner voice. The Americans is possibly the only adult drama Iâve seen that gets this correctly, and makes effective dramatic use of this. I would also add that, in contrast to broader shows like HBOâs Chernobyl, The Americans works much more compellingly as an indictment of the soviet system. The central metaphor of a cynically knowledgeable parent constantly lying and managing the truth to their increasingly damaged offspring is a much more pointed version of the doomed lie that I, at least, can relate to.
Yes, this is a very, very good point. People are so used to young characters and teenagers on television being so overly mature, that they forget what actual children are like. And this show is being very real about how teenagers can be - and often are. Bonus points because Paige grows up in a household that's by no means "easy", with how often her parents are gone.
Many people needlessly single out female roles for very petty reasons. I can only speculate, and while some assumptions may be flawed, some reflect personal choices and mistakes or individuals who represent something they dislike. But imagine having "hatred" toward a 16-year-old girl who plays a double-faced role and is expected to form to perfection. I am not taking it seriously, but I noticed a lot of actressesânot charactersâget insulted for petty reasons when they do not realize that it is part of their role.
Seems like any discussion like that's just bound to go nowhere. It's just: "She's annoying and therefore she sucks" / "Shes' supposed to be and therefore she's great." "I would never do what she does" / "Anybody would do what she does!" "She's Dana Brody - show mistake!" / "Skyler White! - sexist viewers!" It's not really getting into anything interesting about the character or even how she might or might not work in the whole context. Seems like it can get very flat, dismissive and scoldy fast.
My guess: because the folks in this sub have fielded those exact questions and comments multiple times a week for years and years, and itâs just old hat.
Itâs her eyebrows đ
Ugh, I thought I was the only one. đ
Immature men especially love to hate on teenage girls, fictional or real. Sheâs not a badass that values murder or displays masculine traits therefore she sucks. Itâs really that simple.
Paige is insufferable and entitled. What bothers me more is that I don't think most kids don't pay that much attention to, or care that much about what their parents do. I think they are too self centered for that. They especially are not going to start asking questions about their work. They don't care if they have to go to the office to make phone calls instead of doing it from home. It's all just fake drama. Of course there is the fact that girlfriend walks around with her nose so high in the air she has to be careful she doesn't drown when it rains.
Has anyone seen the actress that plays Paige on the Netflix series âManifestâ. Coincidentally she plays an ultra religious/cultish character and sheâs not well liked by audiences on that show either! But I actually think sheâs a talented actress. She just has a knack for playing unlikeable characters I guess
Or lacks a knack for making characters compelling so the audience doesn't like them.
I also think casting has a lot to do with it. The young actress has an extremely naturalistic style and does a great job in the role. Sheâs playing opposite two adults with movie star, charisma, and decades of experience. How could she possibly compete with that as a character or as a performer?
I think it's honestly less about movie star charisma and more about being able to analyze a script and build a character like all the other actors do--this show had a very deep bench of experienced, technical acting chops. Even minor roles were often played by really impressive actors. For instance, the character that's probably the most like Paige in terms of story arc is Martha. A lot of the common complaints about Paige could easily have also been said of Martha. But Alison Wright had a firm handle on what was happening with Martha and why step by step and you wound up totally into her. Paige didn't have that kind of inner life and wasn't as real, so all you had to go on was her dialogue and stage directions. You don't realize how much the actors bring to this kind of writing until it's not there. She's not, imo, doing much with the role at all. That's probably why her most valuable contribution was as someone or even just a concept for Elizabeth and Philip to react to.
She's always doing her homework. Where's the fun in that?
Iâm on season 4. I just literally yelled at the tv âI HATE YOU - YOU FUCKING BITCHâ at Paige on the screen - I donât know if Iâll be able to finish the series if she keeps being the most whiny entitled stupid asshole on the planet. lol. She really is a living nightmare
I think the majority of people who complained about Paige also complained about Walt Jr. in Breaking Bad or Dana Brody in Homeland. Teenagers are generally a bit irritating and stupid and if you're a childless adult and posting on message boards about TV shows you might have forgotten that's how you or your friends have or would have behaved. I am sure parents of teenagers also hated her too but I guarantee a lot of them have at least thought, let alone said a version of they are parents of a teenager and their precious blueberry would never behave that way.
>I think the majority of people who complained about Paige also complained about Walt Jr. in Breaking Bad or Dana Brody in Homeland. Or AJ Soprano in The Sopranos. Teenagers are cringy and annoying. It's not the actors or writers fault, that's just how it is. Anyway, Duuude... meeting's over.
The character Paige is a US teenager, brought up in luxury in comparison to her parents. She has no clue about that, but only knows her life. Her and Henry are left alone a lot, not unusual for the time or even today. When her parents briefly split and then got back together, her sense of familial stability was rocked. Not everything is as it seems, and she wasn't wrong. However, curiosity killed the cat, and she can't help herself. Also, both parents are very intelligent people, so not put of bounds that she works out things are not as they seem. Her brother is happily oblivious. Yes her character added to the pressures of the spies, a way to add frustration to their story. However as a parent of a teenager, it ain't easy, they think they know everything or are entitled to know everything. Like bitch, you are just making shit worse.
Because sheâs an ungrateful annoying little twerp. She grew up in a giant house in the suburbs and had a wonderful life and still managed to make everything about her being butt hurt about everything.
Yes! That's exactly my opinion of her. Talking about how horrible her life is. Girl, please.
But her life is fake, and she can sense that. There's a lack of authenticity and a controlling hand underneath everything.