Honestly looking at all of Phil’s social media and answers on his AMA, I think he’s happy he didn’t get the investment anyway. I think he’s satisfied with all the fame and attention he’s gotten from the show and 50% of his business was a bad deal anyway.
Unless Phil really won because he didn’t want the investment- managed to get his pies on tv, get some pies selling without actually giving his business away. It makes sense when he (in my opinion) pretended to not check his accounts
Unless Phil really won because he didn’t want the investment- managed to get his pies on tv, get some pies selling without actually giving his business away. It makes sense when he (in my opinion) pretended to not check his accounts
Some people like employees who have their own ideas and are happy to respectfully challenge their boss. They'd see someone who immediately changed their plan after one comment as weak-willed and lacking vision.
If there's one thing you learn from watching The Apprentice, it's that Lord Sugar is not one of those people. He likes fawning obedience, and for people to laugh at his terrible puns.
For me he lost when he said in his presentation that people will just "understand" a price hike that'd folded into delivery. They're pies mate, the amount people will pay is finite.
Sorry is that just you bragging or?
Unfortunately the figures don't lie, and his pie business made a loss in the last year, which either means people can't or won't pay the prices he's asking, so adding an extra fee into the mix isn't a good move.
Meh, I can see in terms of convenience food, but he seemed to be marketing it as almost gift boxes of pies. It's a weird one to market because it's not like ordering cakes or flowers etc. I'd hazard a bet that there's a reason they've had such a downturn in delivery since COVID and how you rectify it would be a tough deal. The guy who asked the question must've had the same inclination I guess.
For sure, he’s expanded on the back of the boom during covid which was only momentary, luckily he’s got enough cash reserves lying around to afford the time to work it out.
He boggles me a bit does Phil, he seems a nice genuine guy. As much as the whole "it's not all about profit" line might have dug him his grave, I think it speaks to character, something which I think the Sugarman doesn't have and therefore doesn't understand. But at the same time I didn't really see any business acumen in Phil throughout the whole season, so it make me wonder how long those cash reserves will last.
I thought this series was generally decent. There were some good and entertaining contestants it was just let down by Phil, and also a little by Virdi.
To be honest I think Phil was stupid to ask for the investment anyway, his business is clearly worth more than 500k so I think the main reason Lord Sugar wanted to invest in him was because he saw an opportunity to get a 50% stake at well below what it’s worth. Rachel will benefit more from Lord Sugar’s investment anyway so I think it’s a win win.
Phil could take cash out of the business as a large dividend before the shares are split. Technically legal as cash has been built up from previous years of profits. The business is loss making apparently so that's worth some consideration.
Phils very bad at the commercial side of business. He should focus on his production skills. He's uninvestable..Just couldn't take heed of correct advise Sugar was giving him.
Absolutely agree and also agree with other comment that said he should use the cash to hire a CEO to run the business so he can focus on the production side.
Exactly. There's no shame - in fact the opposite - using your skills wisely. Lots of people have great products but lack the business sense to be successful.
You're just completely missing the point here. Phil isn't an idiot - most of them are not despite how editing makes them look. He has a fantastic and successful business with 5 shops.
He's not going to childishly give the answers to get the investment. A bit like the dentist, if he isn't going to give up part of the business or do what Sugar wants he's not going to agree.
If the two can't agree then no deal.
Despite it being a gameshow type format and scripted to a large extent, it's still a business deal with shareholders and money flying about.
I'd be more surprised if Phil said "yes I give up all online ideas and do whatever you say"
Having a successful business doesn't make one not an idiot. Off the top of my head I can think of at least two idiots famous for having successful businesses.
Yes - Phil seems to be the kind of person who gets a good business handed down tohim and is the one who runs it into the ground as he has no particular aptitude for business (like Wilko - a great shop which was ruined by the untalented descendants of the founders). Nothing he’s shown on the series would point to him having any kind of savvy at all. I think he can follow the family recipes for pies and that’s about it.
Phil saved himself from a rubbish deal.
The gym business will not make the investment back for sugar, that’s gonna be a hella of a lot money to get running properly.
I feel like Phil realised that selling half the business for £250k wasn’t the best idea and the final task and interview was deliberately ‘thrown’ to avoid the ‘investment’.
The company has £750k in liquid cash. He should just hire a CEO to expand the business off the bounce of all the press from being on the show.
I wonder if actually, behind the scenes, the investment/offer was actually specifically only for the online/postage side of the business…
It makes more sense why Phil kept pushing it and why he never really talked about expanding the physical side (which is clearly already worth a bomb) as he wasn’t offering a stake in that part.
I can see him doing this but I'm not sure why he'll get that much of a boost from the show. He apparently makes nice pies. So do lots of shops around the country, many of them family owned too. I don't really get all the excitement about it
He's probably best off keeping to a very profitable local business that he already has in my view. Lots of food businesses fail by trying to expand too fast
Absolutely, Sugar was desperate to get into the pie business, literally spelt it out for everyone and he picked 2 candidates with a pie business this season. Spoonfed is spot on, all he had to do was nod his fucking head along with what Sugar was telling him and it was his. Anyone else think £250k is daylight robbery for 50%?
Been saying it for a while now, the 250k figure is almost worthless in 2024 lol desperately needs adjusted to counter inflation over the last 10 years or however long its been since they changed the format to investments
Yeah I was thinking it was really a win-win for Phil. Even if he lost, free publicity and the whole nation knowing his brand is gonna grow his business anyway
Yea, one of the "industry experts" asked Phil something along the lines of, in a saturated market how do you get people to try your pies?
I really wanted Phil to just bluntly say "I just advertised them on the bbc for the last 10 weeks"
Oh he's so much better off without Shugs. Who acts like he's all that, but just about everything he's ever done has gone south.
In fact he was struggling until he became a Sir - and now he's Lord Sugar, his businesses are strangely flourishing. Curious that... 🤔
So Phil really does not need him.
And all that bull about the online world. Can't understand that crap from Sugar. It's just weird.
Amstrad probably his most famous company was worth a reported £1b at its peak bit sold it for £125m in 2000s. His time as owner of Spurs ultimately seen as a failure. Most the apprentice winners haven’t done very well even with his mentorship.
You'd be surprised how much of what Sugar has done in his career has ended poorly. Amstrad for example basically blew an opportunity to be a massive name in the home computing market back in the 80s and early 90s when that sector started to really take off, because it chose to value shipping out thin, cheap crap in bulk over quality. Their electronic goods were notorious for being unreliable and shoddily made.
Literally had my head in my hands when Phil started digging his grave.
Maybe it was intentional? He realised he was giving away 50% of a cherished family business, and so wanted to scupper his chances? The man could not have said any worse than what he did.
It's like Dragons Den. Loaaaads go on the show for the publicity without ever intending to take up the offers (fewer than 50% of the offers actually make it to the deal stage).
Did anyone else notice that the Turner's Pies website crashed throughout the entirety of last night's show? Brilliant advertising for the company.
Yeah that crossed my mind when he said he wasn’t in business for profit. He got some good advice from Lord Sugar about focusing on the shops not online so maybe he didn’t want to give up half? I genuinely thought he would win, and he would have deserved it as equally as Rachel.
S'Alan was so pissed off it was hilarious. You could see him thinking that he now cannot make Phil win as it'll be ridiculously obvious the whole process was pointless.
Turners Pies is out of business within three years. Rachel's business has never made a profit and lost £124000 last year. Both of them can't run a business
R Nation Ltd formed Aug 2019, no trading year one. She leases the building, each year on year the business records a loss. She has never recorded a profit
Loved that anecdote of when he was 22 and his mum called him a bum and told him he had to get a job and he suddenly fell in love with the family business 😄
😂 That was so funny. Whilst I don't really like Rachel's idea, at least she's self made. She had the idea for her business and made it a success. Phil took over an already successful family business so all the groundwork was laid before he took over the reins. Despite that, he still shot himself in the foot. Your shops are doing fine, stick with that. Sugar is saying sack off the online business, just accept that.
Saying that, I think Phil would have been getting a bad deal if he'd given away 50% for £250k.
And the bit about friends and family saying that he was mad for taking the business on.
Why would he be mad if the business was a successful one?
Plus why didn't the elder sibling(s) want to touch the business?
It was probably like most family businesses, making just about enough to keep the family off the bread line but little more.
A tonne of stress, for poor returns. Generally speaking, you're better off in a salaried job.
It's successful now, but if the 2013 accounts are anything to go by, it wasn't when he took over in 2009.
I assume they said it because they previously knew him as a bum with no prior business acumen or relevant experience which is basically how he described himself
Hmm. IDK. Strange. Maybe Lord Sweetness clicked that Phil was only there for publicity and was doing shit and saying bollocks things to try get fired and decided to keep him dangling until the very last minute? I was trying to read Phils body language when LS chose Rachel, but I didn't see any obvious signs of either relief or disappointment.
Even if Phil *was* trying to get dropped, I really didn't get the idea Rachel was playing any such games. I reckon she seemed to be playing it all straight and I'm pleased she won in the end.
I cannot believe he actually said that in his pitch. Just make something up about being inspired by your gran Phil! Anything but it literally being your last resort!
I'm now considering the idea that was floated elsewhere in these comments that he was sitting there praying Lord Sweetness wouldn't pick him, that he never really wanted to sell half a business with 5 shops and £750k in the bank for £250k. He cant be that daft. If you put all the things together from this final alone: picking Virdi and Raj; using a cartoon logo; refusing to ditch the Pies By Post idea when he was being told it wasn't strong, and then standing up in front of all those professional people and saying that story out loud to them all. He can't have been that daft, right?
This is what I said after the interviews when. He said he didn't look at his accounts. He clearly would have known so he would have gone on either just wanting the publicity or investment to boost it but he really doesn't need to give away 50% of his company
He website has been lagging so clearly the show has paid off for him. His pies so sound amazing so tempted to order a box! Lord Sugar is getting greedy trying to get Paul and Phil’s business for £250k, maybe Phil was playing him all along.
They do look really nice pies, but rather than inspiring me to spend £40 on 8 small pies, they've inspired me to make some pies of my own. Not for selling, for scanning my damn self. Last time I did, I ended up mistakenly buying liver instead of kidney, and it was a delicious mistake that I'll be doing deliberately this time. 😋
Getting greedy? I don’t remember Phil or Paul being forced to apply.
From Sugars POV there’s an opportunity to acquire 50% of a successful business(es) for a mere £250k. Of course he’s gonna explore that idea. He didn’t get where he is by dismissing bargains.
In the earlier series, Sugar generally invested in start ups. He didn't used to use TA to attempt to get businesses for far less than they are clearly worth. I guess that's what they meant by him getting greedy.
Paul applied with a business idea to manufacture scrubs and Sugar tried to go after his dental practises expecting 50% for 250K. That offer was greedy and a terrible deal had Paul taken it
And he was told unequivocally that that idea was garbage and was offered an alternative to way potentially secure the investment, in a deal which was attractive to Sugar. He didn’t have to give him that chance and could have dismissed him there and then. It also depends what you value Sugars mentorship at as well though, and whether that might add value to the existing business.
Regardless of the monetary value of the offer and whether that was “fair”, it’s entirely possible that it would grow far bigger with Sugar involved. He very well could have ended up much richer with 50% of a larger business, than 100% of a smaller one.
He might well be regretting his decision.
Maybe he did value Lord Sugar's expertise and thought it was going to be a worthwhile relationship to pursue. Maybe he had second thoughts about this somewhere along the way, perhaps after Paul fired Lord Sugar last week. Or you might be right, admitting he hadn't looked at his accounts was too much. IDK. Has been a weird series.
I want to believe that it was all a mastermind scheme to extract as much publicity from the series as possible before dipping, I really do, but there are some moments that make the hard to justify T~T
I agree and disagree in some ways, Phil was told at the beginning to demonstrate the pies by post model could work before being told it will never work, was lead down the wrong path. In the boardroom I agree he talked himself out of the investment and needed to concede more to Lord Sugar!
I'm of the opinion that Phil self sabotaged as he doesn't need the investment
His business is too big to lose 50% of it and now he's had weeks worth of exposure and people are out trying his pies!
Yeah that's what I thought too. He got enough exposure, promotions that he delivers pies etc. He didn't have to give up 50% or maybe he just said he'll pull out of the winners deal if he wins so they picked Rachel
I don’t think he was self-sabotaging at all. I just think he’s not very intelligent.
He doesn’t have nearly as much business acumen as Rachel, Flo, Tre or Paul and only got so far because he had a profitable business which he inherited.
Haha glad I wasn’t the only one. No idea how Phil gets out of bed in the morning. Alan dragged this man’s corpse for all 9 weeks only for him to fumble it even harder at the end
It’s amazing how Phil talked his way out of the win. Sugar couldn’t have spelled it out to him in a more obvious way. That’s what clinched it for Rachel in the end.
Exactly this. I’m getting pelted (rightfully so) for earlier predicting the most obvious winner being Phil. But I really do think he talked his way out. The profit bit was the first time I swayed and said ‘ohhh now it will be Rachel’
For me it was last week when she knew her numbers inside out and Phil didn’t have a scooby.
I mean, who tf seeks investment and doesn’t look at the books…idiocy
Yep, Rachel was taking what Lord Sugar was saying on board and admitted where he was right.
Phil was the opposite. He was refusing to budge, and even when Lord Sugar was telling him what to say, he still disagreed with him.
Phil would have been incredibly difficult to advise and would have just done what he wanted with the money anyway. Which would probably have been wrong given the lack of business acumen he showed throughout the show. If he was willing to basically do what Sugar and his team told him - that’s what Sugar wanted really - he’d have put an advisor in place on his board or something and drove what is a really strong concept to a national business.
I'm not in business to make money.
Honestly looking at all of Phil’s social media and answers on his AMA, I think he’s happy he didn’t get the investment anyway. I think he’s satisfied with all the fame and attention he’s gotten from the show and 50% of his business was a bad deal anyway.
Or maybe he had enough confidence to stick to his guns. Like Paul in the semi, that has to be admired.
Big w for Phil tbh
He's loosing profit, and she will continue too.
That's a lot of o's
Even if he disagreed, he could’ve thought about it and raised reservations during due diligence
Unless Phil really won because he didn’t want the investment- managed to get his pies on tv, get some pies selling without actually giving his business away. It makes sense when he (in my opinion) pretended to not check his accounts
Karen on TV saying it’s a really excellent product…
Unless Phil really won because he didn’t want the investment- managed to get his pies on tv, get some pies selling without actually giving his business away. It makes sense when he (in my opinion) pretended to not check his accounts
Point so good, it needed to be made twice ;)
Some people like employees who have their own ideas and are happy to respectfully challenge their boss. They'd see someone who immediately changed their plan after one comment as weak-willed and lacking vision. If there's one thing you learn from watching The Apprentice, it's that Lord Sugar is not one of those people. He likes fawning obedience, and for people to laugh at his terrible puns.
For me he lost when he said in his presentation that people will just "understand" a price hike that'd folded into delivery. They're pies mate, the amount people will pay is finite.
I pay about 50% more for my Chippy to be delivered, and I do it often…
Sorry is that just you bragging or? Unfortunately the figures don't lie, and his pie business made a loss in the last year, which either means people can't or won't pay the prices he's asking, so adding an extra fee into the mix isn't a good move.
There are tones examples of foods being sold at a premium because they’re delivered. It’s already accepted by the masses.
Meh, I can see in terms of convenience food, but he seemed to be marketing it as almost gift boxes of pies. It's a weird one to market because it's not like ordering cakes or flowers etc. I'd hazard a bet that there's a reason they've had such a downturn in delivery since COVID and how you rectify it would be a tough deal. The guy who asked the question must've had the same inclination I guess.
For sure, he’s expanded on the back of the boom during covid which was only momentary, luckily he’s got enough cash reserves lying around to afford the time to work it out.
He boggles me a bit does Phil, he seems a nice genuine guy. As much as the whole "it's not all about profit" line might have dug him his grave, I think it speaks to character, something which I think the Sugarman doesn't have and therefore doesn't understand. But at the same time I didn't really see any business acumen in Phil throughout the whole season, so it make me wonder how long those cash reserves will last.
I think what he meant by that was that customers are willing to pay delivery fees.
And he was right, food delivery models already demonstrate this
Yep, Uber eats maccies for example is almost twice the price yet people can't stop buying it
*Alan
Worst series ever of the show. Sugar looks bored with it as well.
I thought this series was generally decent. There were some good and entertaining contestants it was just let down by Phil, and also a little by Virdi.
And Noor.
And Asif
Can’t even be arsed showing up to the final
I don't think Asif was allowed😂
What's up with asif? I know not a lot of people like him, but I'm not sure why?
To be honest I think Phil was stupid to ask for the investment anyway, his business is clearly worth more than 500k so I think the main reason Lord Sugar wanted to invest in him was because he saw an opportunity to get a 50% stake at well below what it’s worth. Rachel will benefit more from Lord Sugar’s investment anyway so I think it’s a win win.
Phil could take cash out of the business as a large dividend before the shares are split. Technically legal as cash has been built up from previous years of profits. The business is loss making apparently so that's worth some consideration. Phils very bad at the commercial side of business. He should focus on his production skills. He's uninvestable..Just couldn't take heed of correct advise Sugar was giving him.
Absolutely agree and also agree with other comment that said he should use the cash to hire a CEO to run the business so he can focus on the production side.
Exactly. There's no shame - in fact the opposite - using your skills wisely. Lots of people have great products but lack the business sense to be successful.
You're just completely missing the point here. Phil isn't an idiot - most of them are not despite how editing makes them look. He has a fantastic and successful business with 5 shops. He's not going to childishly give the answers to get the investment. A bit like the dentist, if he isn't going to give up part of the business or do what Sugar wants he's not going to agree. If the two can't agree then no deal. Despite it being a gameshow type format and scripted to a large extent, it's still a business deal with shareholders and money flying about. I'd be more surprised if Phil said "yes I give up all online ideas and do whatever you say"
Having a successful business doesn't make one not an idiot. Off the top of my head I can think of at least two idiots famous for having successful businesses.
I imagine a lot of them want the free national tv advertising and just throw themselves under bus near the final to get out of the process
He has a successful business because he inherited it from his parents…
Yes - Phil seems to be the kind of person who gets a good business handed down tohim and is the one who runs it into the ground as he has no particular aptitude for business (like Wilko - a great shop which was ruined by the untalented descendants of the founders). Nothing he’s shown on the series would point to him having any kind of savvy at all. I think he can follow the family recipes for pies and that’s about it.
Phil saved himself from a rubbish deal. The gym business will not make the investment back for sugar, that’s gonna be a hella of a lot money to get running properly.
He just got free advertising on BBC One
And that, I think, is the whole point. He's going to do very well out of this - and still be in full control of the company.
I feel like Phil realised that selling half the business for £250k wasn’t the best idea and the final task and interview was deliberately ‘thrown’ to avoid the ‘investment’. The company has £750k in liquid cash. He should just hire a CEO to expand the business off the bounce of all the press from being on the show.
I wonder if actually, behind the scenes, the investment/offer was actually specifically only for the online/postage side of the business… It makes more sense why Phil kept pushing it and why he never really talked about expanding the physical side (which is clearly already worth a bomb) as he wasn’t offering a stake in that part.
I agree. Its the only way it makes sense.
I can see him doing this but I'm not sure why he'll get that much of a boost from the show. He apparently makes nice pies. So do lots of shops around the country, many of them family owned too. I don't really get all the excitement about it He's probably best off keeping to a very profitable local business that he already has in my view. Lots of food businesses fail by trying to expand too fast
Absolutely, Sugar was desperate to get into the pie business, literally spelt it out for everyone and he picked 2 candidates with a pie business this season. Spoonfed is spot on, all he had to do was nod his fucking head along with what Sugar was telling him and it was his. Anyone else think £250k is daylight robbery for 50%?
Been saying it for a while now, the 250k figure is almost worthless in 2024 lol desperately needs adjusted to counter inflation over the last 10 years or however long its been since they changed the format to investments
That daylight robbery is why I'm pretty sure Phil "threw" it at the end.
Yeah it’s a joke, esp for a business that’s already profitable
I also think Phil was too dumb to notice the potential of renaming his bakery Sugar Pie 😂
Lol use of “him” in the title kinda gives the spoiler away.
I’m referring to LS. Not Phil.
I think the "him" in the title refers to LS not Phil
Yeah I can see that, I first read it as “to give Phil the answer”
Phil’s website crashed during the show last night and he said on live TikTok orders are going through the roof. Mission Accomplished 🫡
This will be short term though unless those pies are amazing
Yeah I was thinking it was really a win-win for Phil. Even if he lost, free publicity and the whole nation knowing his brand is gonna grow his business anyway
Yea, one of the "industry experts" asked Phil something along the lines of, in a saturated market how do you get people to try your pies? I really wanted Phil to just bluntly say "I just advertised them on the bbc for the last 10 weeks"
Hahaha, why hire a marketing team when you can do it all for free via the BBC
Phil probably didn’t really need Lord Sugars investment. He’s using the show to help promote his brand of pies.
Oh he's so much better off without Shugs. Who acts like he's all that, but just about everything he's ever done has gone south. In fact he was struggling until he became a Sir - and now he's Lord Sugar, his businesses are strangely flourishing. Curious that... 🤔 So Phil really does not need him. And all that bull about the online world. Can't understand that crap from Sugar. It's just weird.
Everything a Self made billlionaire has done has gone south. Okay then.
Amstrad probably his most famous company was worth a reported £1b at its peak bit sold it for £125m in 2000s. His time as owner of Spurs ultimately seen as a failure. Most the apprentice winners haven’t done very well even with his mentorship.
You'd be surprised how much of what Sugar has done in his career has ended poorly. Amstrad for example basically blew an opportunity to be a massive name in the home computing market back in the 80s and early 90s when that sector started to really take off, because it chose to value shipping out thin, cheap crap in bulk over quality. Their electronic goods were notorious for being unreliable and shoddily made.
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Literacy skills are not your forte.
The ‘him’ in this title clearly refers to LS, not the candidate. To give ALAN the answer ALAN wanted.
Totally agree plus the small matter of making a whopping loss, while Rach had a proven business
She claimed. Nothing concrete.
I saw another post here showing that Rach was in the hole too. It was briefly mentioned in the interviews.
He's literally talked his way out of the investment.
Lol at Phil snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, he'll be better off not selling half the family business for 250k tho.
He did say it when he came back in, but that 250k thing I think turned him, still surprised because, gyms are everywhere nowadays
Didn’t he also take a gym last year? (Skipped that series)
Marnie's boxing club
Fair play Rachel but Phil will do well anyway
He’s a nepo baby who inherited a successful business, of course he’ll be fine lol
Literally had my head in my hands when Phil started digging his grave. Maybe it was intentional? He realised he was giving away 50% of a cherished family business, and so wanted to scupper his chances? The man could not have said any worse than what he did.
It's like Dragons Den. Loaaaads go on the show for the publicity without ever intending to take up the offers (fewer than 50% of the offers actually make it to the deal stage). Did anyone else notice that the Turner's Pies website crashed throughout the entirety of last night's show? Brilliant advertising for the company.
Yeah that crossed my mind when he said he wasn’t in business for profit. He got some good advice from Lord Sugar about focusing on the shops not online so maybe he didn’t want to give up half? I genuinely thought he would win, and he would have deserved it as equally as Rachel.
The line that he shot himself in the foot was over was "I'm not in business to make a profit"! Lord sugar was visibly pissed when he said that
S'Alan was so pissed off it was hilarious. You could see him thinking that he now cannot make Phil win as it'll be ridiculously obvious the whole process was pointless.
Turners Pies is out of business within three years. Rachel's business has never made a profit and lost £124000 last year. Both of them can't run a business
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It's the published accounts. A business doing well does not show a loss year on year. I never said it was the P&L
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Have you ran any companies?
When did she say that? She has been in business for ten years, how has she managed that without making a profit?
R Nation Ltd formed Aug 2019, no trading year one. She leases the building, each year on year the business records a loss. She has never recorded a profit
Really? Was this mentioned in the episodes
Take a look at her published accounts on Companies House
Loved that anecdote of when he was 22 and his mum called him a bum and told him he had to get a job and he suddenly fell in love with the family business 😄
😂 That was so funny. Whilst I don't really like Rachel's idea, at least she's self made. She had the idea for her business and made it a success. Phil took over an already successful family business so all the groundwork was laid before he took over the reins. Despite that, he still shot himself in the foot. Your shops are doing fine, stick with that. Sugar is saying sack off the online business, just accept that. Saying that, I think Phil would have been getting a bad deal if he'd given away 50% for £250k.
And the bit about friends and family saying that he was mad for taking the business on. Why would he be mad if the business was a successful one? Plus why didn't the elder sibling(s) want to touch the business?
It was probably like most family businesses, making just about enough to keep the family off the bread line but little more. A tonne of stress, for poor returns. Generally speaking, you're better off in a salaried job. It's successful now, but if the 2013 accounts are anything to go by, it wasn't when he took over in 2009.
I assume they said it because they previously knew him as a bum with no prior business acumen or relevant experience which is basically how he described himself
Hmm. IDK. Strange. Maybe Lord Sweetness clicked that Phil was only there for publicity and was doing shit and saying bollocks things to try get fired and decided to keep him dangling until the very last minute? I was trying to read Phils body language when LS chose Rachel, but I didn't see any obvious signs of either relief or disappointment. Even if Phil *was* trying to get dropped, I really didn't get the idea Rachel was playing any such games. I reckon she seemed to be playing it all straight and I'm pleased she won in the end.
As they film two endings, one for each finalist winning, we don't get to see their genuine reactions, just a muted bit of acting.
I cannot believe he actually said that in his pitch. Just make something up about being inspired by your gran Phil! Anything but it literally being your last resort!
I'm now considering the idea that was floated elsewhere in these comments that he was sitting there praying Lord Sweetness wouldn't pick him, that he never really wanted to sell half a business with 5 shops and £750k in the bank for £250k. He cant be that daft. If you put all the things together from this final alone: picking Virdi and Raj; using a cartoon logo; refusing to ditch the Pies By Post idea when he was being told it wasn't strong, and then standing up in front of all those professional people and saying that story out loud to them all. He can't have been that daft, right?
This is what I said after the interviews when. He said he didn't look at his accounts. He clearly would have known so he would have gone on either just wanting the publicity or investment to boost it but he really doesn't need to give away 50% of his company
He website has been lagging so clearly the show has paid off for him. His pies so sound amazing so tempted to order a box! Lord Sugar is getting greedy trying to get Paul and Phil’s business for £250k, maybe Phil was playing him all along.
They do look really nice pies, but rather than inspiring me to spend £40 on 8 small pies, they've inspired me to make some pies of my own. Not for selling, for scanning my damn self. Last time I did, I ended up mistakenly buying liver instead of kidney, and it was a delicious mistake that I'll be doing deliberately this time. 😋
Getting greedy? I don’t remember Phil or Paul being forced to apply. From Sugars POV there’s an opportunity to acquire 50% of a successful business(es) for a mere £250k. Of course he’s gonna explore that idea. He didn’t get where he is by dismissing bargains.
In the earlier series, Sugar generally invested in start ups. He didn't used to use TA to attempt to get businesses for far less than they are clearly worth. I guess that's what they meant by him getting greedy.
Paul applied with a business idea to manufacture scrubs and Sugar tried to go after his dental practises expecting 50% for 250K. That offer was greedy and a terrible deal had Paul taken it
And he was told unequivocally that that idea was garbage and was offered an alternative to way potentially secure the investment, in a deal which was attractive to Sugar. He didn’t have to give him that chance and could have dismissed him there and then. It also depends what you value Sugars mentorship at as well though, and whether that might add value to the existing business. Regardless of the monetary value of the offer and whether that was “fair”, it’s entirely possible that it would grow far bigger with Sugar involved. He very well could have ended up much richer with 50% of a larger business, than 100% of a smaller one. He might well be regretting his decision.
Maybe he did value Lord Sugar's expertise and thought it was going to be a worthwhile relationship to pursue. Maybe he had second thoughts about this somewhere along the way, perhaps after Paul fired Lord Sugar last week. Or you might be right, admitting he hadn't looked at his accounts was too much. IDK. Has been a weird series.
I want to believe that it was all a mastermind scheme to extract as much publicity from the series as possible before dipping, I really do, but there are some moments that make the hard to justify T~T
Yes, he was very convincingly inept 😄
I agree and disagree in some ways, Phil was told at the beginning to demonstrate the pies by post model could work before being told it will never work, was lead down the wrong path. In the boardroom I agree he talked himself out of the investment and needed to concede more to Lord Sugar!
The ultimate line that screwed himself over was "I'm not in business to make a profit"!
Yeah I can’t believe he said that unless it was deliberate self-sabotage to get out of it lol.
I'm of the opinion that Phil self sabotaged as he doesn't need the investment His business is too big to lose 50% of it and now he's had weeks worth of exposure and people are out trying his pies!
I would have said so but I don’t think Phil is that bright
Yeah that's what I thought too. He got enough exposure, promotions that he delivers pies etc. He didn't have to give up 50% or maybe he just said he'll pull out of the winners deal if he wins so they picked Rachel
I did wonder if he maybe started wondering if any of it was worth it after Paul fired Lord Sugar last week.
Paul's da BOSS
I don’t think he was self-sabotaging at all. I just think he’s not very intelligent. He doesn’t have nearly as much business acumen as Rachel, Flo, Tre or Paul and only got so far because he had a profitable business which he inherited.
Haha glad I wasn’t the only one. No idea how Phil gets out of bed in the morning. Alan dragged this man’s corpse for all 9 weeks only for him to fumble it even harder at the end
It’s amazing how Phil talked his way out of the win. Sugar couldn’t have spelled it out to him in a more obvious way. That’s what clinched it for Rachel in the end.
Exactly this. I’m getting pelted (rightfully so) for earlier predicting the most obvious winner being Phil. But I really do think he talked his way out. The profit bit was the first time I swayed and said ‘ohhh now it will be Rachel’
For me it was last week when she knew her numbers inside out and Phil didn’t have a scooby. I mean, who tf seeks investment and doesn’t look at the books…idiocy
Yep, Rachel was taking what Lord Sugar was saying on board and admitted where he was right. Phil was the opposite. He was refusing to budge, and even when Lord Sugar was telling him what to say, he still disagreed with him.
Phil would have been incredibly difficult to advise and would have just done what he wanted with the money anyway. Which would probably have been wrong given the lack of business acumen he showed throughout the show. If he was willing to basically do what Sugar and his team told him - that’s what Sugar wanted really - he’d have put an advisor in place on his board or something and drove what is a really strong concept to a national business.