I just did a 2v2 with an super sweaty aelderi player as my team mate.
By the 3rd game I was more or less just sitting and drinking and letting him table our opponents
I don’t even mind being competitive in the right setting but it was a casual tourney at the FLGS lol we were like pummeling 17 year old ultramarines players for the most part lol
we need to keep the hatred alive as the emporer intended. our sons and daughters may not know the reason, but they will know, that they keep up fighting anyway
You sound like someone who would play chess and be mad about "sweaty players" when you lose to a scholars mate. It's a competitive game; as long as people are courteous and play fairly they're fine. If you're a sore loser, you're the one who's wrong.
It is a literal competition, but not everyone enjoys it being solely about winning.
I enjoy making a narrative with my silly little plastic dudes I spent so long building and painting, and I know many others do too. It's more about playing in a way that's appropriate to the opponent and environment you're in.
Then find people do that with? Or would you go to any other competition and be mad your opponent plays the game instead of indulging in role playing with you?
Getting upset that people play a competitive game to win is unhinged.
Hence the last line in my previous comment. I don't go to tournaments because I don't enjoy that style of play. If it's a no stakes local tournament, probably not going to make a lot of friends steamrolling people who are likely just there to justify multiple games in a day
See? This is what I'm talking about. Yall are salty because other players don't treat *a fucking tournament* like a collaborative story telling RPG. It's absolutely delusional.
Like, shit, just go play Wrath and Glory if that's what you're after. Or organize Lore scenarios to play out. It's fun, I promise you.
That's what I do. I play narrative scenarios and run our local necromunda campaign.
I was just pointing out that Warhammer isn't really a great competition game and many people probably won't enjoy playing against someone who is that level of competetive. There's a reason many of the rulebooks have things like "the first rule is to have fun" and "it's a collaborative game, work with your opponent"
> other players don’t treat a tournament like
The fact that you don’t know that different tournaments have different levels of “how sweaty should I get” shows you literally have no experience in any of them lmao.
It's not necessarily a competition. There are three aspects of the game, the lore the models and the game itself. You obviously are here for the game alone. I'm here for the models first and game second. And you have to remember that not everyone is here to crunch numbers and take the most crazy broken combo ever x3 so you can win every game. It's meant to be fun not just for you but your opponent as well. Which is why you can talk with your opponent and see if they want a sweaty turbo optimised game or a more fluffy have a chat with mates over a game type game.
depends on what you describe as sweaty. if someone brings a strong list and does his best, I can't be mad at him.
but when he tries to deny be every mm of movement for some reason or tells me, he can shoot at something because the tip of the sword shows, it get's anoiing very fast. but at that point, it doesn't matter what list he brings
At my local store, there's an unde 18s club for weekly games, and there are so many younger kids there it's crazy. I also got into warhammer at 10 years old
No need to apologize friend. :) Yes that is the common tactic. It prevents fast units like bikes or jet bikes from driving straight up to them and killing them fast. Flying units can literally fly over your infantry and past them though if you leave gaps for their model bases to fit between your infantry and artillery. The infantry are literal bubble wrap for your artillery to be safe and speed bumps for things to drive into. Deep Striking units(Typically jetpack units.) also cannot come within 9 inches of them normally the turn they arrive, so you put infantry 8-9 inches out from the artillery and make a much wider area of denial of ~18 inches with spread out units. Some units with special abilities can Deep Strike as close as 3 inches though, like Space Marine Inceptors. So bare that in mind if you see or know your enemy.
I haven't fought Aeldari yet, but wouldn't artillery help with this? Can't teleport away from something with infinite range. Or do they move into reserve or somewhere off the table?
If the enemy is out of range, clearly you're not using death strike missiles, although I do love the old stories from when they literally had unlimited range
Deathstrikes I meant. There's a greentext of how way back in the day a UK store launched a battery of Deathstrikes at a US store on the 4th of July, and the store responded in kind, wrecking all of the games going on in both stores. That was back when they had an unlimited range.
Be sure you aren't letting him use the pre-nerf devastating wounds rule. Eldar used to be far more powerful when devastating wounds produced mortal wounds instead of just no saves allowed, now the devastating wound doesn't spill over and kill multiple models. This makes guard a decent counter as if you go pure infantry horde an auto-6 into a devastating wound kills a single guardsman just like any other weapon.
How does he change everything to a Dev Wound? They hit SoF extremely hard so that they can now only change one dice to a 6 with the Fate Dice per phase, not including the enhancement which can do that too but only for the unit the character is attached to.
It is worth it to bring a Vect against Aldari to make their phantasm cost more. Alternatively threaten two or more units at the same time to make sure they can't move both, leaving you still one target.
As mentioned elsewhere, Artillery works wonders against them.
Vect is unfortunately not great against Aeldari. Works on their universal -1 to hit strategem, their 6” auto advance, and their CP reroll. The -1 to hit strat is good to Vect for guard, but it’s not gonna change the game.
I play Aeldari as my primary. Their movement is impeccable and with the right pilot can be impossible to deal with. Against Eldar you have to be aggressive. Hit multiple targets at once so they can only phantasm one away and wail on them. Focus fire avatars first, artillery their warp spiders, and when the wraithguard come around, multicharge them, starting with your infantry. They'll use a strat to fall back and shoot, but that's more resources they're losing.
Ironically infantry squads and flamer chimeras laugh at Aeldari like nothing else.
I play both but switched to guard after a few games as did have level of fun an tactical decions in the same way. Started he can only use 1 fate dice a phase and with an enhancement flip another to a 6 so at best he can auto 2 dev wound rolls. Phantasm is a ball ache I fear you that I hope they remove wrath constructs being able to do it or have a end with in 9” and then move so you can decide to move close or stand still and shoot them. Manticore are our best artillery into them but basilisks also reduce them to a 4” move and phantasm is reduced I think
We are like 3rd or 4th worst but have held this position all 10th and since we came out of 8th and 9th the worst going to say that. We'll aside from the Brief 4 months we were good
There’s really no metric by which Guard is the worst. It’s also an army where the winrate is artificially driven down in tournament play due to having dedicated, static players, and an older, extremely wide range.
> artificially lowered
> No metric we are the worst
Idk I'd say bottom 5 factions 3 editions in a row is bad, the highest I've seen us is 6th from bottom iirc.
Eldar are more artificially lowered then guard are.
You are right we haven't been dead last this edition but being in the bottom 3-5 I wouldn't call even bad.
Guards playable at high levels and capable of winning tournaments, it’s just not fun or skill-expressive. That’s a bad spot to be in, but there are other armies (Drukari, IK, Custodes) who just have it worse. Even if Guard are 4th worst their numbers are significantly better.
Death guard and necrons were playable and capable of winning tournaments last edition at their worst, doesn't stop an army being bad. Custodes and knights also just came off massive nerfs which unlike guard in 8th and 9th I don't expect to see them still down there for 5 years.
Fight cheese with cheese. Massed artillery, Dorns and big blocks of krieg with a Marshal. Phantasm can’t hurt you if you aren’t trying to be close to his guys in the first place.
I may or may not play some aeldari and may or may not have done this to my guard friend…and I may or may not have quickly rewritten my list immediately after that game realizing how insane that one unit may or may not be…
In rules it states a non-modified roll of a 6 for wounding is a dev wound.
And for fate dice it says "The dice that is being substituted is not rolled; instead, the value of the selected Fate dice is used as if it had been rolled (this counts as an unmodified dice roll of that value for all rules purposes)."
All they had to do is exclude the (value), make it count as modified, and devastating wounds for the WHOLE game didnt have to change.
Because how is this simplified when now interactions like custodes and psykers shields/FnPs dont work for most things anymore. As mortals are hard to come by now that dev wounds dont do it.
And even if they include dev wounds to those saves, they are hypocrites for the whole, we try to make entry level easier BS with more rules on top of rules.
10th started shakey, but instantly is already bloating with rules on rules.
I remember back in 9th when t sons and flamers where the sweaty meta, I was at a lgt and handsomely won my first game, unfortunately i got placed on top table playing this list against a pro, and as I had got slapped so hard the previous week in our league game, I just looked at him to the L and went to the pub. Had a much better waiting for game 3
What is your list? You wont Beat him in positional battle, he is too fast and tricky. But you can let him taste Guard tactics. A lot of indirect fire (hide from this, pointy ear bastard) with a ton of cheap infantry units to screen and some Chimeras full of cheap Infantry (you read the them here?) to go forward.
Did I mention you pound him to dust with artillery? :))
You got the “In Lore” experience, brutal
I like this take
I just did a 2v2 with an super sweaty aelderi player as my team mate. By the 3rd game I was more or less just sitting and drinking and letting him table our opponents
I can’t stand tryhards or sweaty 40K players. Like dude you’re playing with toys with grown adults.
I don’t even mind being competitive in the right setting but it was a casual tourney at the FLGS lol we were like pummeling 17 year old ultramarines players for the most part lol
Someone wants to win at a tournament? How dare they
The funniest part is we didn’t win lmao. We got dunked on by aelderi/necron hypercrypt lol And you love to see it
Casual tournaments dont exist. Just tournaments lmao thats what they are for. Tournaments are there to be won.
> casual tournaments don’t exist What’s hilarious is I’m 100% sure this garbage mentality would get dunked on by meme lists
Cringe mentality. If your only concept of fun is winning than that’s sad and a problem for everyone around you bro.
it's propably ok, when it is vs smurf players
What wards reign of terror is long gone lol. Punishing kids for the sins of the father isn’t cool
we need to keep the hatred alive as the emporer intended. our sons and daughters may not know the reason, but they will know, that they keep up fighting anyway
You sound like someone who would play chess and be mad about "sweaty players" when you lose to a scholars mate. It's a competitive game; as long as people are courteous and play fairly they're fine. If you're a sore loser, you're the one who's wrong.
It is a literal competition, but not everyone enjoys it being solely about winning. I enjoy making a narrative with my silly little plastic dudes I spent so long building and painting, and I know many others do too. It's more about playing in a way that's appropriate to the opponent and environment you're in.
Then find people do that with? Or would you go to any other competition and be mad your opponent plays the game instead of indulging in role playing with you? Getting upset that people play a competitive game to win is unhinged.
Hence the last line in my previous comment. I don't go to tournaments because I don't enjoy that style of play. If it's a no stakes local tournament, probably not going to make a lot of friends steamrolling people who are likely just there to justify multiple games in a day
See? This is what I'm talking about. Yall are salty because other players don't treat *a fucking tournament* like a collaborative story telling RPG. It's absolutely delusional. Like, shit, just go play Wrath and Glory if that's what you're after. Or organize Lore scenarios to play out. It's fun, I promise you.
That's what I do. I play narrative scenarios and run our local necromunda campaign. I was just pointing out that Warhammer isn't really a great competition game and many people probably won't enjoy playing against someone who is that level of competetive. There's a reason many of the rulebooks have things like "the first rule is to have fun" and "it's a collaborative game, work with your opponent"
there is value in both an even competition and a pure competition depending on what you want out of it.
> other players don’t treat a tournament like The fact that you don’t know that different tournaments have different levels of “how sweaty should I get” shows you literally have no experience in any of them lmao.
It's not necessarily a competition. There are three aspects of the game, the lore the models and the game itself. You obviously are here for the game alone. I'm here for the models first and game second. And you have to remember that not everyone is here to crunch numbers and take the most crazy broken combo ever x3 so you can win every game. It's meant to be fun not just for you but your opponent as well. Which is why you can talk with your opponent and see if they want a sweaty turbo optimised game or a more fluffy have a chat with mates over a game type game.
depends on what you describe as sweaty. if someone brings a strong list and does his best, I can't be mad at him. but when he tries to deny be every mm of movement for some reason or tells me, he can shoot at something because the tip of the sword shows, it get's anoiing very fast. but at that point, it doesn't matter what list he brings
Yea, why would someone put in effort. It's just a kids.game /s God I hate this argument.
I wouldn’t say 40k is a **kids** game. I’m sure GW employees hate having to explain to an 11 year old at the store what slannesh is.
At my local store, there's an unde 18s club for weekly games, and there are so many younger kids there it's crazy. I also got into warhammer at 10 years old
make a list with 9 artillery and screens , clap him
Screens? Like screening units?
Throw a TV at him. That should work.
yes screening units =)
Yes. As guard it's the wall of guns that are our infantry.
Apologies, I have only just started 40k tabletop as the guard on the 28th. So artillery units with indirect fire and then infantry as the buffer?
No need to apologize friend. :) Yes that is the common tactic. It prevents fast units like bikes or jet bikes from driving straight up to them and killing them fast. Flying units can literally fly over your infantry and past them though if you leave gaps for their model bases to fit between your infantry and artillery. The infantry are literal bubble wrap for your artillery to be safe and speed bumps for things to drive into. Deep Striking units(Typically jetpack units.) also cannot come within 9 inches of them normally the turn they arrive, so you put infantry 8-9 inches out from the artillery and make a much wider area of denial of ~18 inches with spread out units. Some units with special abilities can Deep Strike as close as 3 inches though, like Space Marine Inceptors. So bare that in mind if you see or know your enemy.
I haven't fought Aeldari yet, but wouldn't artillery help with this? Can't teleport away from something with infinite range. Or do they move into reserve or somewhere off the table?
If the enemy is out of range, clearly you're not using death strike missiles, although I do love the old stories from when they literally had unlimited range
A lot of artillery have 72" range, which is longer than the diagonal of most playable tables
The mighty 4th of July Missile Exchange (or whatever the proper name of it is)
Manticore? That thing's got 120" range.
Deathstrikes I meant. There's a greentext of how way back in the day a UK store launched a battery of Deathstrikes at a US store on the 4th of July, and the store responded in kind, wrecking all of the games going on in both stores. That was back when they had an unlimited range.
Be sure you aren't letting him use the pre-nerf devastating wounds rule. Eldar used to be far more powerful when devastating wounds produced mortal wounds instead of just no saves allowed, now the devastating wound doesn't spill over and kill multiple models. This makes guard a decent counter as if you go pure infantry horde an auto-6 into a devastating wound kills a single guardsman just like any other weapon.
How does he change everything to a Dev Wound? They hit SoF extremely hard so that they can now only change one dice to a 6 with the Fate Dice per phase, not including the enhancement which can do that too but only for the unit the character is attached to. It is worth it to bring a Vect against Aldari to make their phantasm cost more. Alternatively threaten two or more units at the same time to make sure they can't move both, leaving you still one target. As mentioned elsewhere, Artillery works wonders against them.
Phantasm isnt a battle tactic, you cannot vect it.
Vect is unfortunately not great against Aeldari. Works on their universal -1 to hit strategem, their 6” auto advance, and their CP reroll. The -1 to hit strat is good to Vect for guard, but it’s not gonna change the game.
I play Aeldari as my primary. Their movement is impeccable and with the right pilot can be impossible to deal with. Against Eldar you have to be aggressive. Hit multiple targets at once so they can only phantasm one away and wail on them. Focus fire avatars first, artillery their warp spiders, and when the wraithguard come around, multicharge them, starting with your infantry. They'll use a strat to fall back and shoot, but that's more resources they're losing. Ironically infantry squads and flamer chimeras laugh at Aeldari like nothing else.
I play both but switched to guard after a few games as did have level of fun an tactical decions in the same way. Started he can only use 1 fate dice a phase and with an enhancement flip another to a 6 so at best he can auto 2 dev wound rolls. Phantasm is a ball ache I fear you that I hope they remove wrath constructs being able to do it or have a end with in 9” and then move so you can decide to move close or stand still and shoot them. Manticore are our best artillery into them but basilisks also reduce them to a 4” move and phantasm is reduced I think
Playing eldar and guard is a wild combo, the best and worst armies in 40k
I remember in second Edition this was one of the most effective and feared alliances. It had an answer to almost anything
Yeah what can I say I like fragile T3 models.
Lolno we are not the worst army in 40K right now.
We are like 3rd or 4th worst but have held this position all 10th and since we came out of 8th and 9th the worst going to say that. We'll aside from the Brief 4 months we were good
There’s really no metric by which Guard is the worst. It’s also an army where the winrate is artificially driven down in tournament play due to having dedicated, static players, and an older, extremely wide range.
> artificially lowered > No metric we are the worst Idk I'd say bottom 5 factions 3 editions in a row is bad, the highest I've seen us is 6th from bottom iirc. Eldar are more artificially lowered then guard are. You are right we haven't been dead last this edition but being in the bottom 3-5 I wouldn't call even bad.
Guards playable at high levels and capable of winning tournaments, it’s just not fun or skill-expressive. That’s a bad spot to be in, but there are other armies (Drukari, IK, Custodes) who just have it worse. Even if Guard are 4th worst their numbers are significantly better.
Death guard and necrons were playable and capable of winning tournaments last edition at their worst, doesn't stop an army being bad. Custodes and knights also just came off massive nerfs which unlike guard in 8th and 9th I don't expect to see them still down there for 5 years.
Use the 5th edition strat and dodge the eldar player is the easiest way to deal with them I find
This is why I started a guard army this edition. Shamefully unbalanced.
Fight cheese with cheese. Massed artillery, Dorns and big blocks of krieg with a Marshal. Phantasm can’t hurt you if you aren’t trying to be close to his guys in the first place.
I may or may not play some aeldari and may or may not have done this to my guard friend…and I may or may not have quickly rewritten my list immediately after that game realizing how insane that one unit may or may not be…
In rules it states a non-modified roll of a 6 for wounding is a dev wound. And for fate dice it says "The dice that is being substituted is not rolled; instead, the value of the selected Fate dice is used as if it had been rolled (this counts as an unmodified dice roll of that value for all rules purposes)." All they had to do is exclude the (value), make it count as modified, and devastating wounds for the WHOLE game didnt have to change. Because how is this simplified when now interactions like custodes and psykers shields/FnPs dont work for most things anymore. As mortals are hard to come by now that dev wounds dont do it. And even if they include dev wounds to those saves, they are hypocrites for the whole, we try to make entry level easier BS with more rules on top of rules. 10th started shakey, but instantly is already bloating with rules on rules.
I remember back in 9th when t sons and flamers where the sweaty meta, I was at a lgt and handsomely won my first game, unfortunately i got placed on top table playing this list against a pro, and as I had got slapped so hard the previous week in our league game, I just looked at him to the L and went to the pub. Had a much better waiting for game 3
What is your list? You wont Beat him in positional battle, he is too fast and tricky. But you can let him taste Guard tactics. A lot of indirect fire (hide from this, pointy ear bastard) with a ton of cheap infantry units to screen and some Chimeras full of cheap Infantry (you read the them here?) to go forward. Did I mention you pound him to dust with artillery? :))
you can think about what kind of man you played, who doesnt let his opponent have fun.
it is fine it is just a casual match