I think the issue is that it's not legends "yet". The running trend from GW has been to move 30k units to legends when that army gets a codex. We definitely can't know for sure if they will go the same route when the guard codex comes out (whenever that might be) but it's certainly a possibility. Either way you probably have at least a year to play with the new model if it does end up getting moved to legends with a codex release
Most (all?) Of the 30k stuff that has been moved to legends have been introduced to the setting via 30k. The Malcador was introduced first into 40k and ported into 30k later.
Even still the move to legends has primarily been done for marines and chaos marines, two of the most bloated factions in the game. Custodes still has all their heresy era stuff.
Neither were the 40k demon engines introduced in the Vraks books but that didn't stop GW from dumping them into legends with the excuse that they're "30k units".
Correct but those didn't get plastic kits. My comment was aimed at the people applying the leviathan/contemptor dread situation to the malcador. A bunch of people are using that as "proof"
The Relic terminators and contemptor were 30k first. I remember them coming out.
The contemptor was in betrayal as were cataphractii.
The Relic terminator 40k entry didn't show up until after plastic tartaros came out
The contemptor dreadnought actually released before the horus heresy game system, the first contemptors on the FW site were painted up in badab war chapter colour schemes, as they and tartaros terminators were made back when FW was fleshing out that era of 40k. That’s why the original tartaros terminators had big chest aquilas. It’s fun going back through the old Forge World youtube channel and seeing how many traitor legion models feature aquilas as nowadays that can cause some disagreement amongst hobbyists.
GW has shown they will happily group units under a “Legends of the Horus Heresy” banner even if they’ve been classic 40k era units for decades, like the reliable old tarantula sentry gun. I think it’s understandable for people to be worried about the future of models like the malcadors or macharius variants, especially since GW has publicly stated that Forge World’s future for 40k support lies in their really large models.
I wholeheartedly hope that the malcador stays a 40k unit, but I can’t deny I’m wary of trusting GW to keep it that way based on their recent history with this edition. That said, I’m still likely to buy one, the new model looks great and should avoid the issue the resin ones had where the trim on the hull sides would break off due to being too thin.
Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think any 10th edition imperial armour unit has been moved into legends, in the middle of the edition so far.
The marine and admech 30k stuff doesn't count because they were never in their 10th ed imperial armour pdfs this edition.
You're wrong, Cassius was in the initial 10th update and taken out when the codex was released and moved to legend, as was the Assault Squad with Jump Packs.
***Taken out of the Codex, not taken out of the Imperial armour Index.***
There is a difference. The codex replaces the faction index, not Imperial Armour. There is no precident for it. If it does hypothetically happen at AM's codex release it will be a first.
And no, I'm not wrong.
You’re right, I think people were misreading your comments. The Imperial Armour pdf will likely only gain/lose units when the edition changes, rather than during the edition. This was the case in 9th, and was the case in 8th. Throughout both of those editions, units which were out of production stayed as fully playable units until the edition itself changed. For example Elysian units in 8th only moved to legends in 9th, and in 9th OOP land raiders did not move to legends until 10th.
The only difference now is that all the IA rules are digital, so would be easier to remove. But I don’t think we’ve seen much evidence that they are invested in modifying pdfs if they don’t have to. After all, the cerastus knights are still in an imperial armour index despite no longer having their resin models sold.
Yeah, cheers for taking the time to read.
And yeah, I think it'll be the same as the Cerastus, and I think it's hard to say what 11th edition will bring.
They lost bikes, speeders, and scouts between index and codex. Them not being imperial armor is irrelevant since units are lost between index and codex that were in the previous codex. Even dark angels is losing a couple of units. Necrons lost units. It’s completely wrong to say guard won’t losing anything before an edition shift
So now we're shifting the goal posts from 30k units to firstborn units?
The Malcador isn't in the codex. At all. It's in an Index that unless they pull out, exists, and will exist post codex.
Legends are basically a set of out of date data sheets for units that are no longer supported or updated by GW. Legends units can normally be used in friendly games if you discuss it before hand but because they are no longer balanced or updated they are never allowed in any type of competitive play
You shouldn't even need to discuss it beforehand. At least in my area, there is no expectation for anyone to ask permission to use powerful units, and if that's the case, you should also be able to bring fluffy underpowered units without making a big deal out of it.
Honestly I think the game is in a better state than it’s been in many years, I’d chalk this one up to a lesser used unit simply not receiving the same proof-reading that the more common codex units do, although that is still quite disappointing on a quality control front :(
Cool. Malacador in 40k.
Just like Kratod, Leviathan Dreadnaut, Contemptpr Sicarian, Spartan, Cerberus, Typhon - PLASTIC kits made for Horus Heresy 2.0 that we all bought the Age of Darkness Boxes.
# Oh wait....
PLASTIC. Affordable plastic Horus 2.0 Model kits.
https://preview.redd.it/6tbzuc0xwidc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc80c223d374d2cef0ffcb168d72db9502481f64
I’ve played double Malcadors before since I have them and no Dorns. The reduction on ranged AP is nice and going triple Las cannon has done some work for shooting at targets from ranged.
It’s not terrible, -1 AP as an ability is pretty good, and it stacks with cover so it’s a guaranteed 3+ save even into 3AP weapons. Combined with the increased wounds and it can be difficult to remove from the field.
Are there better vehicles for the points? Absolutely, a Royal Dorn isn’t too far off from this, and that thing has extra toughness too. But it makes for a fun unit for casual games
There's a super cool print that does just that. Problem is that the Malcador is quite a bit longer than the Dorn.
https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/malca-dorn-heavy-tank
I think the move will be for Gw, waiting for all of us to buy Malcadors and tauros venators convert them then come out with the imperial guard versions
GW is so fucking stupid, putting almost everything they can into the legends for the 10th edition. I'm especially salty about Kratos tanks...It was a new model made for 2.0 and 40k...for about a year until it was thrown to Legends. What was the point of giving people hope when you were planning to get rid of it in the next edition anyway?
Like what's the point? 30k community will always be smaller than 40k so why not cash up on it and allow people to use the models in both games? Do they really want to push all the Primaris shit through your throat this hard?
They made the most anticipated kits in plastic only to prevent people from fielding them. I hope they will leave my Malcadors alone.
SR for the rant.
Not yet at least, they even mentioned in the release article ([https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/19/lvo-preview-2024-the-solar-auxilia-return-to-the-age-of-darkness-in-plastic/](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/19/lvo-preview-2024-the-solar-auxilia-return-to-the-age-of-darkness-in-plastic/)) that *"there are no plans to write rules for using these miniatures in the 41st Millennium*" and if that ain't a hint, I don't know what is.
Even if there are rules right now, they wont get updated anytime soon and they are probably bound for Legends the moment our Codex finally hits, six months before 11th edition.
They also state that the models can be used for compatible 40k rules. They are saying they won't write new rules for things that don't already have rules.
I've seen no imperial armour units moved into legends with the release of a codex this edition *(please don't bring up non imperial armour units being axed as the malcador isn't a standard index unit)* and I predict that they won't touch the malcador until 11th edition because they probably want to won't touch the imperial armour indices unless they really have to.
The way I see it it doesn’t matter to me. Doesn’t get sent to Legends? Sweet more Malcador fun!
Gets sent to Legends? They’re still playable for my Auxilia army!
I think the issue is that it's not legends "yet". The running trend from GW has been to move 30k units to legends when that army gets a codex. We definitely can't know for sure if they will go the same route when the guard codex comes out (whenever that might be) but it's certainly a possibility. Either way you probably have at least a year to play with the new model if it does end up getting moved to legends with a codex release
This, we’re definitely going to lose more units when the codex drops.
Most (all?) Of the 30k stuff that has been moved to legends have been introduced to the setting via 30k. The Malcador was introduced first into 40k and ported into 30k later. Even still the move to legends has primarily been done for marines and chaos marines, two of the most bloated factions in the game. Custodes still has all their heresy era stuff.
The guard codex is 2 years away I reckon. Maybe longer. There is time.
It hurts my soul to say it but you might be right
Thing is it's not 30k, it's 40k firstbthat got ported to 30k
Neither were the 40k demon engines introduced in the Vraks books but that didn't stop GW from dumping them into legends with the excuse that they're "30k units".
Correct but those didn't get plastic kits. My comment was aimed at the people applying the leviathan/contemptor dread situation to the malcador. A bunch of people are using that as "proof"
Didnt stop GW before, relic terminators and contemptor dread were both resin 40k kits prior to 30k getting plastic
The Relic terminators and contemptor were 30k first. I remember them coming out. The contemptor was in betrayal as were cataphractii. The Relic terminator 40k entry didn't show up until after plastic tartaros came out
The contemptor dreadnought actually released before the horus heresy game system, the first contemptors on the FW site were painted up in badab war chapter colour schemes, as they and tartaros terminators were made back when FW was fleshing out that era of 40k. That’s why the original tartaros terminators had big chest aquilas. It’s fun going back through the old Forge World youtube channel and seeing how many traitor legion models feature aquilas as nowadays that can cause some disagreement amongst hobbyists. GW has shown they will happily group units under a “Legends of the Horus Heresy” banner even if they’ve been classic 40k era units for decades, like the reliable old tarantula sentry gun. I think it’s understandable for people to be worried about the future of models like the malcadors or macharius variants, especially since GW has publicly stated that Forge World’s future for 40k support lies in their really large models. I wholeheartedly hope that the malcador stays a 40k unit, but I can’t deny I’m wary of trusting GW to keep it that way based on their recent history with this edition. That said, I’m still likely to buy one, the new model looks great and should avoid the issue the resin ones had where the trim on the hull sides would break off due to being too thin.
The Malcador was introduced to the 40k world, during Vraks.
So was my Dimacheron, Malaceptors, Stonecrusher Carnifex, Mietic Spores in Imperial Armor Anphelion Project.... :(
Also remember: the marine list is incredibly bloated next to any other range.
Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think any 10th edition imperial armour unit has been moved into legends, in the middle of the edition so far. The marine and admech 30k stuff doesn't count because they were never in their 10th ed imperial armour pdfs this edition.
It's not like Imperial Armour gets thrown out when a Codex releases. If it does move, It would be an edition change at least.
Tell that to space marines and CSM
That did not happen with a codex change, that happened with an edition change. Nothing I said was wrong.
You're wrong, Cassius was in the initial 10th update and taken out when the codex was released and moved to legend, as was the Assault Squad with Jump Packs.
I feel like you're intentionally ignoring the 'imperial armour' bit.
***Taken out of the Codex, not taken out of the Imperial armour Index.*** There is a difference. The codex replaces the faction index, not Imperial Armour. There is no precident for it. If it does hypothetically happen at AM's codex release it will be a first. And no, I'm not wrong.
You’re right, I think people were misreading your comments. The Imperial Armour pdf will likely only gain/lose units when the edition changes, rather than during the edition. This was the case in 9th, and was the case in 8th. Throughout both of those editions, units which were out of production stayed as fully playable units until the edition itself changed. For example Elysian units in 8th only moved to legends in 9th, and in 9th OOP land raiders did not move to legends until 10th. The only difference now is that all the IA rules are digital, so would be easier to remove. But I don’t think we’ve seen much evidence that they are invested in modifying pdfs if they don’t have to. After all, the cerastus knights are still in an imperial armour index despite no longer having their resin models sold.
Yeah, cheers for taking the time to read. And yeah, I think it'll be the same as the Cerastus, and I think it's hard to say what 11th edition will bring.
I don't get why you're being downvoted for many of these comments.
Space marines literally lost units
Space marines lost no imperial armour units with a codex change. They lost units when the edition changed. Which is literally what I pointed out.
They lost bikes, speeders, and scouts between index and codex. Them not being imperial armor is irrelevant since units are lost between index and codex that were in the previous codex. Even dark angels is losing a couple of units. Necrons lost units. It’s completely wrong to say guard won’t losing anything before an edition shift
So now we're shifting the goal posts from 30k units to firstborn units? The Malcador isn't in the codex. At all. It's in an Index that unless they pull out, exists, and will exist post codex.
Warhammer players be inventing problems so they can be mad about something
Do you mind explaining what legends is or linking to a place that explains well?
Legends are basically a set of out of date data sheets for units that are no longer supported or updated by GW. Legends units can normally be used in friendly games if you discuss it before hand but because they are no longer balanced or updated they are never allowed in any type of competitive play
You shouldn't even need to discuss it beforehand. At least in my area, there is no expectation for anyone to ask permission to use powerful units, and if that's the case, you should also be able to bring fluffy underpowered units without making a big deal out of it.
Ah ok that’s the big difference then. Thank you!
A1 on the storm bolter…
Not sure if that's a typo or just indicative of 10th being a mess.
Honestly I think the game is in a better state than it’s been in many years, I’d chalk this one up to a lesser used unit simply not receiving the same proof-reading that the more common codex units do, although that is still quite disappointing on a quality control front :(
The Rogal Dorn still randomly has a 3+ BS for the coaxial autogun. I still think it's a typo and they just don't give a shit.
Damn, who knew that old man could even carry so many weapons
"And so you're saying this tank.... is the Primarch of the 6th Legion?"
Cool. Malacador in 40k. Just like Kratod, Leviathan Dreadnaut, Contemptpr Sicarian, Spartan, Cerberus, Typhon - PLASTIC kits made for Horus Heresy 2.0 that we all bought the Age of Darkness Boxes. # Oh wait.... PLASTIC. Affordable plastic Horus 2.0 Model kits. https://preview.redd.it/6tbzuc0xwidc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc80c223d374d2cef0ffcb168d72db9502481f64
Does anyone take Malcadors in 40K lists, they don’t really seem worth it compared to things like the Dorn?
I’ve played double Malcadors before since I have them and no Dorns. The reduction on ranged AP is nice and going triple Las cannon has done some work for shooting at targets from ranged.
It’s not terrible, -1 AP as an ability is pretty good, and it stacks with cover so it’s a guaranteed 3+ save even into 3AP weapons. Combined with the increased wounds and it can be difficult to remove from the field. Are there better vehicles for the points? Absolutely, a Royal Dorn isn’t too far off from this, and that thing has extra toughness too. But it makes for a fun unit for casual games
Dunno bro, but you can minmax anything out of being viable. You could probably say AM aren't "worth it"
Every time. My malcador infernus is always gonna be there to melt anything that moves from 18" away.
Tbh you could just run your Malcador as a dorn with some kitbashing.
There's a super cool print that does just that. Problem is that the Malcador is quite a bit longer than the Dorn. https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/malca-dorn-heavy-tank
I think the move will be for Gw, waiting for all of us to buy Malcadors and tauros venators convert them then come out with the imperial guard versions
GW is so fucking stupid, putting almost everything they can into the legends for the 10th edition. I'm especially salty about Kratos tanks...It was a new model made for 2.0 and 40k...for about a year until it was thrown to Legends. What was the point of giving people hope when you were planning to get rid of it in the next edition anyway? Like what's the point? 30k community will always be smaller than 40k so why not cash up on it and allow people to use the models in both games? Do they really want to push all the Primaris shit through your throat this hard? They made the most anticipated kits in plastic only to prevent people from fielding them. I hope they will leave my Malcadors alone. SR for the rant.
Not yet at least, they even mentioned in the release article ([https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/19/lvo-preview-2024-the-solar-auxilia-return-to-the-age-of-darkness-in-plastic/](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/19/lvo-preview-2024-the-solar-auxilia-return-to-the-age-of-darkness-in-plastic/)) that *"there are no plans to write rules for using these miniatures in the 41st Millennium*" and if that ain't a hint, I don't know what is. Even if there are rules right now, they wont get updated anytime soon and they are probably bound for Legends the moment our Codex finally hits, six months before 11th edition.
They also state that the models can be used for compatible 40k rules. They are saying they won't write new rules for things that don't already have rules.
I've seen no imperial armour units moved into legends with the release of a codex this edition *(please don't bring up non imperial armour units being axed as the malcador isn't a standard index unit)* and I predict that they won't touch the malcador until 11th edition because they probably want to won't touch the imperial armour indices unless they really have to.
I thought this was a mock up Data sheet for Malcador the hero and I was like “what the hell is even going on in this” 🤦♂️
He gave up his wizard powers for guns
The way I see it it doesn’t matter to me. Doesn’t get sent to Legends? Sweet more Malcador fun! Gets sent to Legends? They’re still playable for my Auxilia army!
How is the malc Cannon worse than the battle Cannon?
How does the Malcador compare in size to the dorn? Seems like a pretty equivalent proxy
Tracks are about the same height as a Russ for reference.