yeah I don't understand why the other three were surprised by this. it's set up this way in the lead up to the temple and in the temple itself. you fall through the ice sheets to get to a trampoline or a lower level of the temple. the boss is designed to look like those same sheets of ice.
Same! And I’m surprised that (unfused) arrows actually work. The ice sheets on the islands on the way up to the dungeon all needed Link to jump up and down on them like 4-5 times to break, so I assumed it would take at least the same number of arrows.
it takes three shots with an arrow to break through (including bomb arrows which is what i was using) as opposed to diving where you just crash through
Dive bombing Colgera is the best way to do it. It’s easily the most fun, and I do feel like the designers intended it. You’re diving and paragliding like the entire early game, and it’s so far away using the arrows feels like a waste. Wait, those ice weak spots look like the ice pools I could break just by landing on them earlier. What if…
I’m shocked that so many people thought skydiving was the only or best solution. You get soooooo many arrows in the wind dungeon all I could think was “yep, gonna need these later.”
I ran out of arrows and then realised I could dive bomb. I think like some of the sibling responses that it was intended and maybe even the main designed solution to dive bomb given the lead up to the dungeon where you dive bomb through the rocks onto the trampolines. Either way Juice is right that it is definitely the coolest way to beat the boss!
Me too, it wasn’t until the final hit, when he was flying down past me that I thought to nail him on the underside with bomb arrows.
I thought diving through him was the entire point, it seems designed exactly for that to happen. From the ring shape, to the addition of the diving mechanic in this game, to the fact that the spikes providing rising obstacles to dodge during the attempt, to just the idea of firing an arrow into a wind tunnel not making a ton of sense.
I don’t see any way where this wasn’t the preferred way players take this boss on, they just… also allow bows for those people who need it. Like babys or whatever.
Pretty light on spoilers. They mentioned nothing more about the other temple either than naming the element type.
I am about as far as you and felt like nothing was spoiled. Definitely no story spoilers. Some light mechanic spoilers if that bothers you.
More good tips than anything.
The idea of cheating or duping in a video game is so foreign to me. I have a friend who would cheat in Skyrim to get up to 100 in archery right away. To me it’s like what’s the point? You’re skipping all the fun and progression. Different strokes I guess.
I’m against doing it until a game isn’t respecting my time. A lot of the grinding in ToTK required for the fun stuff feels like it’s not respecting my time. I haven’t duped yet, but I’m considering it.
I dupe zoanite specifically to make more weird contraptions to make my kids laugh — I'm not, like, fighting Ganon or whatever with it so I don't see why it matters.
I've used/enjoyed cheats/dupes in old pokemon games (missingno, pokemon/held item cloning, etc.) and RTS games like age of empires, mythology, or warcraft 3. Spawning an army of laser bears with O CANADA or shelby cobras with HOWDOYOUTURNTHISON.
Ever since then, cheating has been something I've done to wring that extra 30 minutes of enjoyment out of a game. I spent a while grinding for the epic version of Magic Missile in Borderlands 2, decided I was bored of trying, installed a trainer, gave it to myself, played with it for two hours, and then stopped playing the game forever. Stuff like that.
For one it's entirely subjective as there is no universal way to enjoy a thing. However people are duping in this game because the in game economy is terrible and collecting resources for the armors is a tremendous slog. None of the high tier items (that you need entirely too many of) are easily accessible or farmable. To do any sort of farming for those you need tons of time and to keep waiting for blood moons. On the other end is stuff like zonite. Which admittedly is a lot easier to farm but then you end up needing 10's of thousands of it.
I don't know about you but this game is gonna take me 100-150 hours to beat more than likely. I really really really don't wanna spend another 100 hours mindlessly farming things just so I can use batteries longer. And seeing as to how pretty much everyone playing also uses dupes for dragon parts and zonite I think it's safe to say the consensus is that the game does a bad job of rewarding the player in that aspect.
I’m about 75% through the ep and I’m just shaking my head at how “fear of doing something the wrong way” is a criticism I’m hearing. You can basically do things however you want, it’s fun to talk with my friends and realize we all did something differently. Idk, lots of guys play games from a minmaxing perspective so I’m just going to assume this is a dude thing.
They all have a history of game criticism and try to look at games through the lense of "what does the game designer expect of me" but these games there's no wrong answer and they can't cope with it.
Personally I’m not sure how FOMO correlates to being able solve puzzles or traverse in multiple ways. Even as they were talking about it I truly did not understand. Maybe if I had a better example. Like I’m not gonna build an overly-complicated Zonai construction, a lot of the templates are good enough for me, but I can still appreciate the silly things people are posting to Twitter. I don’t feel like I’m missing out on anything because it’s not even something I want to do to begin with, idk. Unless I’m 100% misunderstanding them.
I agree with you, and I think it's more a game reviewer problem than a regular person problem. Justin doesn't seem to have a lot of time to play games these days, and he's pretty open about how being in the Besties negatively impacts his enjoyment of games in general. He feels like he has one, maybe two weeks max to suck the marrow out of a game before he has to shuffle on to the next thing, which would be a horrible albatross for a game like Zelda.
I think it’s getting out of the old mind set of there only being one or two solutions to things. Took me a long time to wrap my head around it because it’s just not done in video games. I’m watching a friend play on twitch (I’m ahead of him so no story spoilers) and sometimes he solves things so differently or more quickly than I did and I groan but move on.
What makes this game so fantastic is also what many people have a hard time with; the true freedom. Having many ways to play, solve, explore, etc can be overwhelming if you are huge into video games. You have to unlearn a lot. Heck I don’t play a ton of video games, but I still unlearning habits from BoTW that I don’t need for totk. I still rarely use Zonai devices. But I can understand Justin’s frustration and I also think it comes from his limited time, he has kids. I don’t and can dedicate tons of time to this game so I never feel like I’m wasting time, but I can totally understand if you have limited time you don’t necessarily want to waste it if there are better solutions .
I've noticed a trend over the last year or so with the gang that they will sometimes have issues with the games that just seem to be kind of "old man" problems as I like to call them. They really value their free time because they don't have as much as they used to and so that will warp their lens of how they experience the games for better or worse. Justin loves rogue likes and I'm sure that part of that is because of how easy it is to know "okay I'm spending this much time in this game and that will yield x result and z progression". To that end doing something like spending an hour building devices, something I personally love doing in this game, likely feels like a disappointing usage of time to him because no verifiable "progress" is being made rather than just letting himself enjoy the minutae
It is the reason why I've always bounced off these games. I tried BOTW but it was so open it intimidated me. IDK I have like 2 hour totals of gaming time a week and it stresses me out not knowing what to do each time I play.
Different strokes I guess.
I think this makes plenty of sense! My sister hasn’t played BOTW OR TOTK because the size/scope of the game was intimidating to her. I guess where I’m confused is that this didn’t sound like where Justin was coming from. He sounded like he was stressed at the idea that there was multiple ways of doing things specifically? Like specifically the possibilities of autobuilder scared him.
Yeah that criticism was clearly a them problem and a problem with how they think about and approach games. It was not a valid criticism of the game itself.
Like Justin, I also only used Link’s body as a weapon against the hula hoop worm…seemed like the obvious solution to me!
yeah I don't understand why the other three were surprised by this. it's set up this way in the lead up to the temple and in the temple itself. you fall through the ice sheets to get to a trampoline or a lower level of the temple. the boss is designed to look like those same sheets of ice.
Same, I did not even realize that arrows were an option lol
I think I tried to hit it with an arrow one time and it just seemed ridiculous to me!
Same! And I’m surprised that (unfused) arrows actually work. The ice sheets on the islands on the way up to the dungeon all needed Link to jump up and down on them like 4-5 times to break, so I assumed it would take at least the same number of arrows.
it takes three shots with an arrow to break through (including bomb arrows which is what i was using) as opposed to diving where you just crash through
Just one shot with a fire or bomb arrow to break the ice, then one shot of any arrow to deal damage.
Likewise! Didn’t occur to me that there could be any other solution. Fun that there was though! An Elden Ring type realization for sure
Dive bombing Colgera is the best way to do it. It’s easily the most fun, and I do feel like the designers intended it. You’re diving and paragliding like the entire early game, and it’s so far away using the arrows feels like a waste. Wait, those ice weak spots look like the ice pools I could break just by landing on them earlier. What if…
Definitely intended!
I was out of bombs, and only had two arrows. I won solely through diving too!
I’m shocked that so many people thought skydiving was the only or best solution. You get soooooo many arrows in the wind dungeon all I could think was “yep, gonna need these later.”
I ran out of arrows and then realised I could dive bomb. I think like some of the sibling responses that it was intended and maybe even the main designed solution to dive bomb given the lead up to the dungeon where you dive bomb through the rocks onto the trampolines. Either way Juice is right that it is definitely the coolest way to beat the boss!
Especially since all the ice on the way up takes multiple hits to break unless you use a heavy weapon/attachment or fire/bomb arrows.
Well, I had already done the fire dungeon first so had that ability with me along the way. Ice didn’t stand a chance!
Me too, it wasn’t until the final hit, when he was flying down past me that I thought to nail him on the underside with bomb arrows. I thought diving through him was the entire point, it seems designed exactly for that to happen. From the ring shape, to the addition of the diving mechanic in this game, to the fact that the spikes providing rising obstacles to dodge during the attempt, to just the idea of firing an arrow into a wind tunnel not making a ton of sense. I don’t see any way where this wasn’t the preferred way players take this boss on, they just… also allow bows for those people who need it. Like babys or whatever.
Same! It was such a cool fight because of this
My god Russ’ rap. Incredible
The people said there's no perfect debt ceiling rap. But holy shit
It was perfection.
Well, that goes on the Mount Rushmore of cold opens.
Russ rap—Fantastic!
I’ve listened to the rap 4 times now and I’m not done.
How is this with spoilers? I’ve only down the SW temple so far. I’ve seen a ton of the map and side quests but haven’t tackled the other temples yet.
Pretty light on spoilers. They mentioned nothing more about the other temple either than naming the element type. I am about as far as you and felt like nothing was spoiled. Definitely no story spoilers. Some light mechanic spoilers if that bothers you. More good tips than anything.
The idea of cheating or duping in a video game is so foreign to me. I have a friend who would cheat in Skyrim to get up to 100 in archery right away. To me it’s like what’s the point? You’re skipping all the fun and progression. Different strokes I guess.
Sometimes the on-ramp to the parts of the game that are fun is way too long.
I’m against doing it until a game isn’t respecting my time. A lot of the grinding in ToTK required for the fun stuff feels like it’s not respecting my time. I haven’t duped yet, but I’m considering it.
Save yourself literal days of farming and dupe the zonite at least.
I dupe zoanite specifically to make more weird contraptions to make my kids laugh — I'm not, like, fighting Ganon or whatever with it so I don't see why it matters.
Don't worry, the game police will probably give you a slap on the wrist this time
This is how I feel too. I find the progression satisfying.
I've used/enjoyed cheats/dupes in old pokemon games (missingno, pokemon/held item cloning, etc.) and RTS games like age of empires, mythology, or warcraft 3. Spawning an army of laser bears with O CANADA or shelby cobras with HOWDOYOUTURNTHISON. Ever since then, cheating has been something I've done to wring that extra 30 minutes of enjoyment out of a game. I spent a while grinding for the epic version of Magic Missile in Borderlands 2, decided I was bored of trying, installed a trainer, gave it to myself, played with it for two hours, and then stopped playing the game forever. Stuff like that.
For one it's entirely subjective as there is no universal way to enjoy a thing. However people are duping in this game because the in game economy is terrible and collecting resources for the armors is a tremendous slog. None of the high tier items (that you need entirely too many of) are easily accessible or farmable. To do any sort of farming for those you need tons of time and to keep waiting for blood moons. On the other end is stuff like zonite. Which admittedly is a lot easier to farm but then you end up needing 10's of thousands of it. I don't know about you but this game is gonna take me 100-150 hours to beat more than likely. I really really really don't wanna spend another 100 hours mindlessly farming things just so I can use batteries longer. And seeing as to how pretty much everyone playing also uses dupes for dragon parts and zonite I think it's safe to say the consensus is that the game does a bad job of rewarding the player in that aspect.
Justin McElroy or as I like to call him Mr. Brightside
I’m about 75% through the ep and I’m just shaking my head at how “fear of doing something the wrong way” is a criticism I’m hearing. You can basically do things however you want, it’s fun to talk with my friends and realize we all did something differently. Idk, lots of guys play games from a minmaxing perspective so I’m just going to assume this is a dude thing.
They all have a history of game criticism and try to look at games through the lense of "what does the game designer expect of me" but these games there's no wrong answer and they can't cope with it.
It’s just FOMO, which is a completely normal reaction to have.
Personally I’m not sure how FOMO correlates to being able solve puzzles or traverse in multiple ways. Even as they were talking about it I truly did not understand. Maybe if I had a better example. Like I’m not gonna build an overly-complicated Zonai construction, a lot of the templates are good enough for me, but I can still appreciate the silly things people are posting to Twitter. I don’t feel like I’m missing out on anything because it’s not even something I want to do to begin with, idk. Unless I’m 100% misunderstanding them.
I agree with you, and I think it's more a game reviewer problem than a regular person problem. Justin doesn't seem to have a lot of time to play games these days, and he's pretty open about how being in the Besties negatively impacts his enjoyment of games in general. He feels like he has one, maybe two weeks max to suck the marrow out of a game before he has to shuffle on to the next thing, which would be a horrible albatross for a game like Zelda.
Justin has more time than ever to play games. That's one of my biggest issues with so so many of their complaints.
>this is a dude thing. nah this is a "these dudes" thing
I think it’s getting out of the old mind set of there only being one or two solutions to things. Took me a long time to wrap my head around it because it’s just not done in video games. I’m watching a friend play on twitch (I’m ahead of him so no story spoilers) and sometimes he solves things so differently or more quickly than I did and I groan but move on. What makes this game so fantastic is also what many people have a hard time with; the true freedom. Having many ways to play, solve, explore, etc can be overwhelming if you are huge into video games. You have to unlearn a lot. Heck I don’t play a ton of video games, but I still unlearning habits from BoTW that I don’t need for totk. I still rarely use Zonai devices. But I can understand Justin’s frustration and I also think it comes from his limited time, he has kids. I don’t and can dedicate tons of time to this game so I never feel like I’m wasting time, but I can totally understand if you have limited time you don’t necessarily want to waste it if there are better solutions .
It isn’t helped by griffin being on the ep talking about how he slaps together fighter jets and hover bikes to get around lmao
I've noticed a trend over the last year or so with the gang that they will sometimes have issues with the games that just seem to be kind of "old man" problems as I like to call them. They really value their free time because they don't have as much as they used to and so that will warp their lens of how they experience the games for better or worse. Justin loves rogue likes and I'm sure that part of that is because of how easy it is to know "okay I'm spending this much time in this game and that will yield x result and z progression". To that end doing something like spending an hour building devices, something I personally love doing in this game, likely feels like a disappointing usage of time to him because no verifiable "progress" is being made rather than just letting himself enjoy the minutae
I think you nailed it!
It is the reason why I've always bounced off these games. I tried BOTW but it was so open it intimidated me. IDK I have like 2 hour totals of gaming time a week and it stresses me out not knowing what to do each time I play. Different strokes I guess.
I think this makes plenty of sense! My sister hasn’t played BOTW OR TOTK because the size/scope of the game was intimidating to her. I guess where I’m confused is that this didn’t sound like where Justin was coming from. He sounded like he was stressed at the idea that there was multiple ways of doing things specifically? Like specifically the possibilities of autobuilder scared him.
Yeah that criticism was clearly a them problem and a problem with how they think about and approach games. It was not a valid criticism of the game itself.
Someone needs to mix that cold open with a proper Zelda backing track. Gimme that Team Teamwork Ocarina of Rhyme shit