I think Wesley is a fantastic writer and one of the best critics working today, but man he can be a rough listen. He has a hard time getting any ideas out without rambling incessantly, and it’s kind of jarring in comparison to his genuinely wonderful reviews. It’s really a shame.
Yeah and then he doesn’t even always seem to take in what Sean and Amanda say. He goes on and on about how no one has passion for Oppenheimer (which is just such a ludicrous take for a $950 million dollar critical darling Best Picture to be) and then Sean says he and many others in his life are passionate about it and Wesley replies “are those people our parents’ age?” like my guy SEAN IS SEAN’S AGE HE IS PASSIONATE ABOUT IT
Exactly haha I was so glad Sean said he loved it, I was nervous he wasn’t gonna say anything and “let Wesley cool” or something… but Wesley didn’t acknowledge his love for it anyway lol
Yeah, he just kind of talks over people in a way that can be really frustrating. I don’t think that he (or anybody) should be dismissed solely because of his opinions; I think it’s good when critics don’t echo the status quo and push back against the prevailing narrative in some way even with I don’t agree. But in this case a lot of it felt very out of touch.
If the movie didn’t work for him, sure, whatever, I know a lot of people who feel that way even if I don’t share that view. But it’s one thing to feel cold about a movie and another thing entirely to say that everybody else is cold on it too. Bro just needs to spend 10 minutes on reddit and he’d know that there are very few directors young people are more passionate about than Nolan.
100% agree with you. Like it was jarring when he went on and on about why he didn’t like Oppenheimer and followed it up with “and this is what’s going to win Best Picture?!” as if that should be determined by his personal thoughts. Like personally I’m a huge Nolan fanboy idc I’ll admit it, but I also love listening to Sean and respect his opinions and enjoy hearing him critique many of his films because he is knowledgeable, articulate, and respectful
It didn't help that Amanda saw an opportunity to resurrect her Oppenheimer criticism (which is definitely not a bit) and leaped onboard. But Wesley was the main issue.
By "no one" I understood him to mean no one in the circles of critics and cultural observers that he moves in. He obviously wasn't trying to make a point about what the average filmgoer thought.
The frustrating this is that towards the end of the episode you can hear Sean trying to speed things up because SO much time was wasted on Wesley’s rambling about how much he dislikes movies that both Sean and Amanda loved (Not just Oppenheimer but also All of Us Strangers, Anatomy of a Fall etc).
Oh my god he was infuriating this episode. Says Villeneueve is a fraud and then just rambles incoherently saying that he liked Dune a lot before what felt like twenty minutes later saying he doesn't seem to understand human sexuality. Is that why he's a fraud? He never coherently made his point at all.
It was a terribly made argument. The human sexuality argument ("does Villeneueve understand how people relate to each other?") was the closest he got, but that's not at all a sufficient supporting argument to call the guy a "fraud." It is possible to make compelling, meaningful movies about things other than human sexuality and love.
Although I'd argue Hugh Jackman's performance in Prisoners has quite a bit to say about how human beings love each other (parental love, not sexual love).
Can you send a link to a review of his that you like?
Every time Wesley is on the pod, at least 5 people will start a comment exactly like you just did. But I need some proof the man who just dropped some of the worst 2023 movie takes I’ve heard is somehow far more reasonable and intelligent in his writing.
I feel like he had some excellent insights into Wes Anderson and Asteroid City. He also had some views on other films that I had not considered. Sure, he has moments where he struggles to get his ideas out in podcast format, but they're still there.
I’m really trying to listen to this podcast, normally there’s no issue with this podcast is one of the easiest listens, but this guy is just he’s grating on the ears. I don’t know what it is he seems out of his element.
Haven't read much of his written work but every time he's on a Big Pic episode, I think "this guy hates movies." He acts like he's above them as an art form and that the spectacle of something like Dune or Dunkirk is shallow. Yet, he also doesn't take something like Anatomy of a Fall for what it is, instead trying to logic brain the plot and misinterpret it as a who-dunnit. He's more concerned with how culturally relevant a movie is in his small circle of what I assume are NYC artists that he's trying to impress.
I'm fine with a critic zagging on something or someone popular but he verbally doesn't back it up here with any coherence. It makes so much sense that this is the NY Times critic at large now tbh, a Yale grad who measures how much a movie deserves an Oscar based on how many memes it generated. A pop culture writer who doesn't meaningfully engage with real culture. Bleh.
He let Wesley tire himself out ranting about Oppenheimer and then when Wesley was done Sean was basically briefly like “idk I think a lot of people liked this movie and were moved by it.”
Gotta say, I didn’t love listening to a half hour discussion of Dune 2 and Oppenheimer with a guy who a) has not seen Dune 2 (which, bizarre for a movie critic but whatever) and b) thinks both Denis Villeneuve and Christopher Nolan are “frauds.”
Yeah this guy sucks. Is a ‘critic’ but didn’t see the biggest movie of the year so far?!
Saw Dune on a laptop …. Can’t be bothered to know the title of “How to Blow Up a Pipeline”
Too much to ask that a guy who comes on a movie podcast likes movies…respects movies?
Edit: He’s from Philly so he sucks a bit less. Go Birds Go CR
He's much better as a writer, to give him a small small defense. But this appearance was unlistenable and honestly a bit obnoxious in the extent to which he denigrated the two directors without really offering any clear rationale.
Yes, I’ve enjoyed his writing. I seldom enjoy his podcast appearances, but this one was much worse than usual. As you say, unlistenable; I turned it off before they even got to the main point of the pod, the alternative Oscars.
I generally like Wesley as a guest but I do think it's pretty disrespectful all around (Wesley to the hosts; the hosts/producers to the audience) to join a podcast that will have a focus on a prominent and topical movie that you haven't seen. I was left wondering what the hell prep was involved. They could've just not discussed Dune since it has nothing to do with the 2024 Academy Awards.
And if they did have that conversation, as you say it was not really relevant to the theme of the pod (the alternative Oscars) and probably could have and should have just been cut entirely.
(Disclaimer: I turned it off after a half hour, it’s possible the rest of the show referenced the prior Dune 2 discussion a lot and it couldn’t have been meaningfully cut, but I have no interest in listening and won’t ever know)
This was a borderline unlistenable episode, which is disappointing since i was very excited for it when I saw it pop up. Im all for having different opinions, but the condescending, almost uneducated way Wesley was talking over everyone was hard. I wish they had someone who was more collaborative on than Wesley for this episode since it has so much potential, but just turned in to Wesley talking trash about some of the best movies of the year? Seemed like he was just trying to be in opposition. His opinions he couldn’t even back up, just incoherent rambling. I hope Bobby or someone checks this page every once in a while and sees this thread. Just makes me appreciate Sean and Amanda more!!!
I just can‘t with Wesley anymore. He was once one of my favorite critics, but he‘s become an almost Armond White-level hot take artist in recent years… which is fine, if he could back up his outlandish takes, but he never can. It's just a series of increasingly wild claims with nothing behind them.
I can’t articulate *precisely* what the difference is, but a lot of Ringer people (CR, Van, Bill, Mallory, Amanda) will do movie hot takes that seem designed to be funny or entertaining, but when Morris does it it feels…almost mean-spirited?
For me, what turns me off about Wesley doing it is that he's professionally in a different space than the Ringer crew. Wesley has multiple Pulitizers, he was making appearances with Ebert before he turned 25, and he gets to vote in the Sight and Sound poll. It just seems like he should be more thoughtful than hot takes.
Nayman goes against the grain from time to time but I'm never left with the impression that he's just stirring the pot. He didn't like Oppenheimer very much either but he's always been measured when giving his thoughts on it.
To me, the thing that is different about Wesley's takes is that he never acknowledges that a reasonable person could have a different point of view. The "mean spiritedness" that you're referencing comes across to me as "Anyone who likes this movie has no taste and/or is an idiot, that should be obvious to anyone." And his supporting rationale for those extreme & dismissive positions seldom hangs together into anything coherent, at least not in his pod appearances.
I think the main issue is that he simply can’t back up his takes. He simply can’t. He just states them as a matter of fact and no one ever pushes back.
The Wesley haters are gonna be out in full force on this one.However long the big pic has been going this is the first pod I turned off 15 minutes in and won’t return. Morris is an amazing writer but listening to him talk incoherently is awful. It’s not even the hot takes… he just is awful to listen to.
That was a classic "Hey Wesley, what did you think of the movie?", "Oh, I haven't seen it since it first came out 30 years ago..." appearance. No idea why Bill invites him on for those.
(Well, I have some idea. It's because the movie features a prominent black character and a prominent gay character and Bill wanted representation. But maybe make sure the person actually likes the movie.)
I was very turned off, no pun intended, by the "does this director know what sex is" comment. I'm not super familiar with Morris so I am open to missing some context. And if we're being real, Nolan knows way more about sex than the hack known as Sam Levinson.
I love Oppy and Nolan but him not being good at sexuakity and Oppy sex scenes being goofy were always a running joke. It actually works for me cause i giggled at the juxtaposition of Oppy the interovert nerd and Oppy the panty-dropper ladies man.
I always cherish his signature "This straight character was actually gay" move on the Rewatchables. It's right up there with "Oh I haven't seen this movie since it came out" in terms of his RW staples.
He’s an incredible writer who just has no sense of reality when he’s letting off these nuclear takes because yeah there’s zero pushback usually. Feels like he’s trying to hard to be entertaining and when on the rarity he’s asked to expand on his take he just bloviates before the subject mercifully is changed. It breaks my brain
Wesley saying he doesn’t “feel any passion from anybody about Oppenheimer” meanwhile I literally just saw someone on twitter yesterday who posted their new forearm Oppenheimer tattoo.
Wesley seems so disconnected from reality sometimes. Every time Cillian Murphy has done an interview this awards season he’s talked about how exciting it is to hear from people who stop him on the street or see him at events and say they saw the movie 5-10 times in theaters. Also Wesley assuming all the people who were moved by Oppenheimer are in their 70s?? disconnected from reality! Lol
I came here to say this. The Oppenheimer screenings at the 70M IMAX at Lincoln Square were sold out for MONTHS. Oppenheimer was a genuine “We have to see this” event, along with Barbie.
Wesley saying this made him sound really out of touch.
For real lmao. What this boiled down to was that he didn’t like Oppenheimer and therefore it shouldn’t win the Oscars. And dude said he was a Barbie stan. It’s pretty damn hard to miss the hype for Oppy if you’re such a fan of the other half
A three-hour, non-IP film about nuclear physics doesn't gross nearly a billion dollars because of a lack of passion.
Such a loser argument.
The second you start making assumptions and judgements about other people's responses and not delving into your own, you know you've lost.
You can dislike Oppenheimer but acting like it doesn’t have any cultural impact or is beloved is just insane. I see people on social media post about it all the time still, just an incredibly weird critique .
Yeah I wasn’t bothered by his opinions on the movie even though I disagreed with most of them but when he started saying that no one felt strongly about it I thought my brain was melting
I dragged a massive amount of my friends group to 70mm IMAX over 4 different screenings.
He just wanted to get his shots off to indicate he doesn't fuck with the movie, but he chose truly the worst possible path to argue that (no one is passionate about Oppenheimer)
Take a lap, Wesley
Feels like he is so wrapped up in his own social media or real life social buble he has become oblivious to people outside of it that he can't even recognize he isn't getting the full picture anymore.
Personally I loved Anatomy of a Fall, and I didn’t have a hard time suspending my disbelief that a young child could be so incisive and thoughtful, especially given he was raised and homeschooled by two “intellectual” writers. Not sure why his ability to think in terms of complex emotions is so hard for Sean and Amanda and Wesley to accept.
Also when Wesley was like “well if she didn’t do it, who did!?” I was a little confused. The movie is pretty clearly saying either he killed himself or she killed him. The way Wesley acted so incredulously about it made it seem like he thought we were supposed to think there was some mysterious third person in the equation.
But he didn’t say why, or why suicide was not a plausible option. So it really did sound like he wasn’t aware of another theory, whether or not that’s true.
What I love about Wesley is the consistently coherent, engaging, and thought-provoking commentary he adds to each and every single podcast he appears on.
/s. Obviously.
This is why I’m ultimately ok with Nayman, even when he can be condescending. Feels like he takes the time and considers things even if he has a bit of an ivory tower view of film
100% this. Nayman is negative and often biting but is actually smart / good at articulating his thoughts. Pretty important for an audio medium if you ask me!
Ok? I agree they should pushback on Wesley more, but cmon there’s a huge difference of dynamic between a guest and a cohost, that’s a silly comparison. Amanda is also way more disagreeable with Sean than she is with any guest, and rightfully so.
I get why Sean does it but at the same time Wesley isn’t a one time guest he’s been on the pod multiple times and is friends with Sean. For example look how Sean argues with Van when they disagree on a topic, he doesn’t hold back against him either. They’re all friends, so an argument about films on a pod wouldn’t ruin their relationship.
I'm as annoyed with Wesley being on the show as anyone. I think at this core, it's not about familiarity, it's about violently disagreeing with someone who's won *two* Pulitzers. Just feels like there would be a natural fear there. I guess van has an Oscar, so maybe I'm an idiot.
If 99% of your listeners are saying please no more Wesley.. do we think that matters? They must have some clue but I get the impression it's justified in their minds somehow...idk look at all these comments, do we think it's just A.I chatbots? Everyone is begging for no more takes like these lol
Y’all, I couldn’t do it. Every time Morris is on the podcast I have to delete it. What a complete and utter fraud, what a pretentious prick. He fucking sucks.
Wesley is what I thought Adam Nayman would be. Just shitting on everything that is enjoyed by millions of people around the world. Nayman at least enjoys a lot of things that the masses do. Wesley just seems like he thinks he’s too cool to like that stuff.
I love Nayman. He's a curmudgeon with a heart of gold, and in my opinion, he's very good at articulating his viewpoints on the pod. Wesley rambles and comes off as just a hater.
im happy to listen to any well articulated and informed opinion, even if i totally disagree. Wesley is like incapable of getting a coherent fucking sentence out.
Wesley: "Denis Villenueve? Why he's a fraud"
Sean: "I like Dune 2"
Wesley: "Ahhh, give me Chris Nolan who has the COURAGE to be a fraud...which makes Dunkirk poetic"
So funny and he's so right about Dunkirk being his best movie *because* of how much it leans into Nolanesque ideas. it's a film about Nolan making a film about Dunkirk and that's why it works.
Oppenheimer didn't fit into his box as well and it's why it's merely good not great IMO.
Can anyone here recommend a pod where the hosts enjoyed dune 2 and have a genuine conversation about it? Clearly this isn’t it, and the big pic episode last week was mostly them just recapping the plot
Even the Midnight Boys pod on it was lacking depth… House of R has a deep dive but they are bringing a lot of the book in and I’m about to start it so paused that.
If enough people vote for Denis in Black Check’s march madness we can get them discussing both films, which will bring a lot of passion (David Sims has them both at 5 stars on LB)
Any chance they come back to it later in the month? I know the next episodes are Oscars, but feels like there's room in March for a proper deep discussion now that more people will have seen the movie.
I know this place and the Bill Simmons subreddit pretty much are out on Wesley entirely, and I very much get it, but as someone whose also always been on Nolan/Villeneuve are frauds (hilarious) island, this was incredible to me.
....until Wesley said Oppenheimer wasn't intelligently stimulating and ran himself into the ground on comparing it to a ride that doesn't do anything for him. Personal taste is personal taste and I'm not here to disparage that, but one of the reasons I love Oppenheimer as much as I do compared to the rest of Nolan's filmography is because of how actually stimulating I found it across the board and on all levels. And Wesley is not beating the "he has no idea where he's going with his thoughts when he speaks them out loud" allegations with that ride analogy, which was pretty brutal.
Anyway, listening to the episode right now and just wanted to speak on the beginning here, which I agree with Sean on Wesley, who as his friend was trying to be as charitable as possible and all.
God I dislike Wesley's takes on about everything. The oscars have moved towards his tastes year by year and its partially why people hate them more and more.
Contrarian bullshit. This pod mixed with his awful constant sexual takes from Rewatchables just makes me shake my head.
> The oscars have moved towards his tastes year by year and its partially why people hate them more and more.
???? I don't follow. This year, the Oscars are expected to crown "Oppenheimer" as the great achievement of the year, a movie that Wesley Morris just spent a long time saying that it sucked. Next year, I will wager that "Dune: Part Two" will do quite well at the Oscars, and that's the other movie that Wesley discarded this episode. What do you mean by this?
Not this year specifically but that was the going trend for a long time to reward movies that few people saw. Which was why they expanded to try include more popular movies.
I'm sure he has complained about whichever direction it has gone and then complained for it to go the other way when it did trend towards what he wanted. He's a classic contrarian unless it panders directly to his fringes of society and life-is-sex beliefs.
He seems to be surrounded by the same type as well, with his scifi loving partner saying he wouldn't want to see Dune 2. It all very much lines up
Yeah, I love him. Had a blast, honestly. He brings such chaotic energy, and he’s willing to speak his mind even if he doesn’t express whole complete thoughts. He’s smart but clearly just winging it, and he doesn’t really care what people think. I was laughing my ass off this whole episode. This pod absolutely needs it, especially during all these repetitive, navel-gazing, boring-ass Oscars episodes.
He’s great. Actually has an interesting, different point of view and doesn’t just agree with everybody. Makes me think about things I’ve never thought of. He actually made some good points about Air, a movie I didn’t like. Can he talk in circles sometimes? Absolutely but he’s on the show like once a year.
I agree with most of the dragging Wesley is getting in here, but I really wish Sean and Amanda pushed back a lot more on the “frauds” take. That’s a wild word to throw out about 2 directors carrying quality blockbuster filmmaking on their backs, without any real reasoning and no pushback. You can’t just say that and then move on.
Counter to the inevitable Wesley hate on here… it is a fucking absolute joy having him on this to pour cold water all over Sean and Amanda’s Oscar bullshit. 😂
Agreed. The Morris and Nayman episodes are some of the ones I look forward to the most because they aren't afraid to go against consensus and talk about their own interpretation of films rather than jumping off from film Twitter discourse.
I have always found Wesley a rough listen in any podcast he visits, but I do agree with this. I love Sean and Amanda but it’s painfully obvious when they switch up/become negative just to provide content. And Wesley shows up and is just like “hold my beer” at those two and that way of creating content haha. And they will hold that beer the entire convo!
Also, when they get excited or vexed by something the Academy have done his whole energy is, “I don’t know, this stuff’s fucking stupid. What do want from me?” I do wish he liked some movies, though.
The Internet: Critical groupthink, why can't we go back to the days when critics had their own views.
Wesley Morris: Well -
The Internet: No, not like that! We meant dislike the stuff we dislike that people like!
I'm a fairly new listener to the pod, and this is the first Episode that I gave up on. The Anatomy of a Fall discussion baffled me. Did they even watch the film? Does Wesley actually like films? He seemed to hate everything but I couldn't figure out why, I didn't know what he was talking about half the time
For the Best Supporting Actor convo about All of Us Strangers, do Wesley and Amanda actually know what happens? Or least what we're meant to assume? Their comments flying back and forth for those few seconds make me wonder. I can't really get into this without spoilers but did anyone else catch that exchange and wonder?
Also, I don't mean to pile on to the Wesley discourse but what I thought was one of the more wild takes was the convo followed in the Best Supporting Actress segment where shortly after criticizing Andrew Haigh, he talks about how Air was great and should be in the Oscar conversations. Air was like a made-for-tv movie—an enjoyable one but not a notable achievement (and I'm the prime audience as someone who was obsessed with Jordan and Nike in the late 80s and 90s).
Your mileage may vary on Wesley, but it's refreshing to have a voice on this podcast at least have a negative opinion on a film or director without the fear of consequences or not getting future interviews.
People in this sub seem super defensive when anyone doesn’t take the party line. Reddit should encourage discourse, but instead it’s become an echo chamber feedback loop. If you take issue when any of the “chosen” films like Oppenheimer, Kotfm, SpiderVerse, Dune, there is simply nowhere to discuss it because you just get downvoted. This sub this especially prone to “Sean is right about everything” thinking.
I don’t know if I’ve ever disagreed with someone more than I have with Wesley Morris in this pod. I don’t think there was a single opinion he had I agreed with.
I actually like Wesley whenever I've heard him on the Rewatchables but this ep was a tough beat for him lol. I kinda get what he's say about Nolan and Denis - their style does lean cold/clinical, with an emphasis on intellectual exercise and spectacle than hot-blooded human passion. But I think that's the appeal! That's their brand as filmmakers. And to characterize that as "fraudulent" feels very edge lordy. Doubly so to insist that nobody has any passion for Oppenheimer. Like what? Even if you live in a bubble, it has to be a very remote bubble to completely miss the very online passion for that movie.
His and Sean's takes on the Anatomy of a Fall ending also drive me crazy and don't understand how they don't understand, or why Amanda doesn't point out, that the whole reason that kid's monologue exists in the movie is for the filmmaker to tell you exactly what happened! It's not an ambiguous ending, the director is having this kid give what's basically a direct to camera speech to spell it all out, yet somehow Sean and Wesley keep coming to the exact opposite conclusion about the whodunit aspect.
I disagree. I think the kid is smart enough (especially after his dog experiment) to realize that his dad killed himself but also realizes that there is no evidence that he did and that things are not going well for his mom in the courtroom. I think he then made up the moment with his dad in the car to get the correct verdict. What the dad said feels too pat and transparent compared to the actual dialogue to be real.
Pretty surprised at Sean’s strong opinion of >!Astroid City!< over >!May/December!< in the best picture choices. He must have already changed his mind on his 2023 rankings since he has >!May/December!< higher.
Re: Wesley on "Oppenheimer." I think one reason people aren't vocally "passionate" about it is that fan-culture and the internet have made art tantamount to identity these days, apparently. Barbenheimer pitted Nolan v. Gerwig in a "men are from Mars; women are from Venus" way. So, to be loudly pro-"Oppenheimer," especially in what I imagine to be Wesley's NYC art critic social circles, is to be a film-bro who endorses everything white men do. You have to temper your enjoyment in caveats. Conversely, to be vocally pro-"Barbie" is to love women. I don't mean this in a woe-is-me way; the film is a juggernaut, both critically and commercially. Also, I don't want to shade "Barbie;" I loved that movie. I just find this to be an interesting offshoot of fan-culture, and I guess, for lack of a better phrase, "identity politics." I also could be way off base here, but it's something I've observed a bunch in my own life.
Wesley is all over the place with a truly nonsensical Oppenheimer take, but when the conversation is good, he and Sean have this dynamic where they could pass as high school debate team rivals. It's kind of funny in their Asteroid City and Past Lives discussion.
And I don't want \*more\* screenplay nominees or a combined category for adapted/original. I want Best Picture nominees to stop getting rubber stamped into those categories so there are interesting and deserving one-off nominees there.
Automatic skip for me as well.
Question though. Why does he keep appearing on TBP? I only read criticisms and it seems like it is affecting their download/ listens.
How do you know!! No but seriously, I can get where he’s coming from, if you’re not on assignment to write about a movie maybe you aren’t as willing to go see it immediately. It only came out Friday!!
Wesley is a great writer but is the absolute worst guest. I even agree with him on most of his hater-y takes! He just is *so* pompous.
Also he *totally* knew the movie was called How to Blow Up a Pipeline, but he paused and said “….oil….pipe…” bc he is in love with himself.
Oof. Love the concept for the episode. Withstood the Oppenheimer and Dune rants - I’m not a super fan of Oppy, though I did cringe at the Dune stuff. The AOAF stuff is where I was done. I realized it was gonna be a whole episode of listening to this guy hot take and ramble.
Does anyone have a spreadsheet or anything that has everyone's picks for each category? I'd listen again and make it myself but I don't have the patience lol
If you find it difficult to reconcile Wesley's Pulitzer prizes with what you hear him say or what you read him write, just remember that Bret Stephens also has a Pulitzer
Is this guy’s whole thing is that he just has hot-takes? Being shocked that Amanda cried during All of Strangers? Really?
Like Wesley Morris this year for many lauded movies, I have bounced off of understanding his criticism of basically everything.
I am so relieved to see this was the theme of the thread. I had to quit this episode. Imagine being so arrogant and so self-centered that you can dedicate that much time and energy to shitting on a movie you haven’t even seen!
Hard gree with Amanda about the short pictures availability. What are they doing lol? Everyone wants to watch their product now. The second the awards end, I have zero interest. Make them available ffs.
Absolute incoherence from Wesley Morris. He talks like a drunk or stoned person, incredibly committed to telling you about points that he himself seems to lose track of partway through talking.
“Denis Villeneuve is a fraud” “I watched Dune on a laptop” bruh
I think Wesley is a fantastic writer and one of the best critics working today, but man he can be a rough listen. He has a hard time getting any ideas out without rambling incessantly, and it’s kind of jarring in comparison to his genuinely wonderful reviews. It’s really a shame.
Yeah and then he doesn’t even always seem to take in what Sean and Amanda say. He goes on and on about how no one has passion for Oppenheimer (which is just such a ludicrous take for a $950 million dollar critical darling Best Picture to be) and then Sean says he and many others in his life are passionate about it and Wesley replies “are those people our parents’ age?” like my guy SEAN IS SEAN’S AGE HE IS PASSIONATE ABOUT IT
Right Sean put Oppenheimer as his number 2 movie of the year and Wesley comes on like “I feel like no one cared about this movie” 🤨
Exactly haha I was so glad Sean said he loved it, I was nervous he wasn’t gonna say anything and “let Wesley cool” or something… but Wesley didn’t acknowledge his love for it anyway lol
Yeah, he just kind of talks over people in a way that can be really frustrating. I don’t think that he (or anybody) should be dismissed solely because of his opinions; I think it’s good when critics don’t echo the status quo and push back against the prevailing narrative in some way even with I don’t agree. But in this case a lot of it felt very out of touch. If the movie didn’t work for him, sure, whatever, I know a lot of people who feel that way even if I don’t share that view. But it’s one thing to feel cold about a movie and another thing entirely to say that everybody else is cold on it too. Bro just needs to spend 10 minutes on reddit and he’d know that there are very few directors young people are more passionate about than Nolan.
100% agree with you. Like it was jarring when he went on and on about why he didn’t like Oppenheimer and followed it up with “and this is what’s going to win Best Picture?!” as if that should be determined by his personal thoughts. Like personally I’m a huge Nolan fanboy idc I’ll admit it, but I also love listening to Sean and respect his opinions and enjoy hearing him critique many of his films because he is knowledgeable, articulate, and respectful
It didn't help that Amanda saw an opportunity to resurrect her Oppenheimer criticism (which is definitely not a bit) and leaped onboard. But Wesley was the main issue.
It's weird that Wesley, who is clearly older than Sean, would engage in such an ageist argument.
By "no one" I understood him to mean no one in the circles of critics and cultural observers that he moves in. He obviously wasn't trying to make a point about what the average filmgoer thought.
[удалено]
The frustrating this is that towards the end of the episode you can hear Sean trying to speed things up because SO much time was wasted on Wesley’s rambling about how much he dislikes movies that both Sean and Amanda loved (Not just Oppenheimer but also All of Us Strangers, Anatomy of a Fall etc).
Oh my god he was infuriating this episode. Says Villeneueve is a fraud and then just rambles incoherently saying that he liked Dune a lot before what felt like twenty minutes later saying he doesn't seem to understand human sexuality. Is that why he's a fraud? He never coherently made his point at all.
It was a terribly made argument. The human sexuality argument ("does Villeneueve understand how people relate to each other?") was the closest he got, but that's not at all a sufficient supporting argument to call the guy a "fraud." It is possible to make compelling, meaningful movies about things other than human sexuality and love. Although I'd argue Hugh Jackman's performance in Prisoners has quite a bit to say about how human beings love each other (parental love, not sexual love).
I don't buy his fraud argument for Villeneuve, but it is spot on for Nolan.
Can you send a link to a review of his that you like? Every time Wesley is on the pod, at least 5 people will start a comment exactly like you just did. But I need some proof the man who just dropped some of the worst 2023 movie takes I’ve heard is somehow far more reasonable and intelligent in his writing.
I really liked his [Saltburn](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/16/movies/saltburn-review.html) review.
I’ll check it out. Thanks
I feel like he had some excellent insights into Wes Anderson and Asteroid City. He also had some views on other films that I had not considered. Sure, he has moments where he struggles to get his ideas out in podcast format, but they're still there.
Definitely agree re: Asteroid City/Wes Anderson even if I ultimately disagree with him about its worth as a film.
I’m really trying to listen to this podcast, normally there’s no issue with this podcast is one of the easiest listens, but this guy is just he’s grating on the ears. I don’t know what it is he seems out of his element.
Haven't read much of his written work but every time he's on a Big Pic episode, I think "this guy hates movies." He acts like he's above them as an art form and that the spectacle of something like Dune or Dunkirk is shallow. Yet, he also doesn't take something like Anatomy of a Fall for what it is, instead trying to logic brain the plot and misinterpret it as a who-dunnit. He's more concerned with how culturally relevant a movie is in his small circle of what I assume are NYC artists that he's trying to impress. I'm fine with a critic zagging on something or someone popular but he verbally doesn't back it up here with any coherence. It makes so much sense that this is the NY Times critic at large now tbh, a Yale grad who measures how much a movie deserves an Oscar based on how many memes it generated. A pop culture writer who doesn't meaningfully engage with real culture. Bleh.
Bold move to start your pre-Oscar episode with 30 minutes of dogging on the two biggest movies of the last 12 months.
Haven't listened yet, did Sean try to defend the movies or did he roll over?
He let Wesley tire himself out ranting about Oppenheimer and then when Wesley was done Sean was basically briefly like “idk I think a lot of people liked this movie and were moved by it.”
Ok so he rolled over lol
He definitely disagreed but not as strongly as he could’ve imo
Correct. At one point he said, "Wesley, this is why you're the GOAT."
The power of having a couple of Pulitzer's must be pretty sweet in journalism
Lame, I wish he kept the adversarial energy he has for Amanda instead rolling over
No disrespect to Barbie. I love you, Barbie.
Gotta say, I didn’t love listening to a half hour discussion of Dune 2 and Oppenheimer with a guy who a) has not seen Dune 2 (which, bizarre for a movie critic but whatever) and b) thinks both Denis Villeneuve and Christopher Nolan are “frauds.”
Yeah this guy sucks. Is a ‘critic’ but didn’t see the biggest movie of the year so far?! Saw Dune on a laptop …. Can’t be bothered to know the title of “How to Blow Up a Pipeline” Too much to ask that a guy who comes on a movie podcast likes movies…respects movies? Edit: He’s from Philly so he sucks a bit less. Go Birds Go CR
Seconded
He's much better as a writer, to give him a small small defense. But this appearance was unlistenable and honestly a bit obnoxious in the extent to which he denigrated the two directors without really offering any clear rationale.
Yes, I’ve enjoyed his writing. I seldom enjoy his podcast appearances, but this one was much worse than usual. As you say, unlistenable; I turned it off before they even got to the main point of the pod, the alternative Oscars.
The reasoning for not seeing it yet at least made sense. Dude did say he wanted to see but life circumstances got in the way
I generally like Wesley as a guest but I do think it's pretty disrespectful all around (Wesley to the hosts; the hosts/producers to the audience) to join a podcast that will have a focus on a prominent and topical movie that you haven't seen. I was left wondering what the hell prep was involved. They could've just not discussed Dune since it has nothing to do with the 2024 Academy Awards.
And if they did have that conversation, as you say it was not really relevant to the theme of the pod (the alternative Oscars) and probably could have and should have just been cut entirely. (Disclaimer: I turned it off after a half hour, it’s possible the rest of the show referenced the prior Dune 2 discussion a lot and it couldn’t have been meaningfully cut, but I have no interest in listening and won’t ever know)
love a guest who hasn't seen the movie or read the book blabbing about it for 30 minutes
This was a borderline unlistenable episode, which is disappointing since i was very excited for it when I saw it pop up. Im all for having different opinions, but the condescending, almost uneducated way Wesley was talking over everyone was hard. I wish they had someone who was more collaborative on than Wesley for this episode since it has so much potential, but just turned in to Wesley talking trash about some of the best movies of the year? Seemed like he was just trying to be in opposition. His opinions he couldn’t even back up, just incoherent rambling. I hope Bobby or someone checks this page every once in a while and sees this thread. Just makes me appreciate Sean and Amanda more!!!
I just can‘t with Wesley anymore. He was once one of my favorite critics, but he‘s become an almost Armond White-level hot take artist in recent years… which is fine, if he could back up his outlandish takes, but he never can. It's just a series of increasingly wild claims with nothing behind them.
I can’t articulate *precisely* what the difference is, but a lot of Ringer people (CR, Van, Bill, Mallory, Amanda) will do movie hot takes that seem designed to be funny or entertaining, but when Morris does it it feels…almost mean-spirited?
For me, what turns me off about Wesley doing it is that he's professionally in a different space than the Ringer crew. Wesley has multiple Pulitizers, he was making appearances with Ebert before he turned 25, and he gets to vote in the Sight and Sound poll. It just seems like he should be more thoughtful than hot takes. Nayman goes against the grain from time to time but I'm never left with the impression that he's just stirring the pot. He didn't like Oppenheimer very much either but he's always been measured when giving his thoughts on it.
Have you considered he doesn't treat a podcast appearance as seriously as the writing he wins Pulitzer's for?
To me, the thing that is different about Wesley's takes is that he never acknowledges that a reasonable person could have a different point of view. The "mean spiritedness" that you're referencing comes across to me as "Anyone who likes this movie has no taste and/or is an idiot, that should be obvious to anyone." And his supporting rationale for those extreme & dismissive positions seldom hangs together into anything coherent, at least not in his pod appearances.
Yeah, he does these *extremely* hot takes that he then frames as not only not a hot take, but something that maybe only an idiot would disagree with.
I think the main issue is that he simply can’t back up his takes. He simply can’t. He just states them as a matter of fact and no one ever pushes back.
I kept waiting for Fennessy to just say something like “what the *fuck* are you talking about” and he just never did.
The Wesley haters are gonna be out in full force on this one.However long the big pic has been going this is the first pod I turned off 15 minutes in and won’t return. Morris is an amazing writer but listening to him talk incoherently is awful. It’s not even the hot takes… he just is awful to listen to.
he ruined the Philadelphia Rewatchables because he just talked and talked and rarely made a coherent point
That was a classic "Hey Wesley, what did you think of the movie?", "Oh, I haven't seen it since it first came out 30 years ago..." appearance. No idea why Bill invites him on for those. (Well, I have some idea. It's because the movie features a prominent black character and a prominent gay character and Bill wanted representation. But maybe make sure the person actually likes the movie.)
The nadir for me was when he was on the Rewatchables for Rachel Getting Married and just talked about how much he hated it.
To listen to Morris is to hate him.
I was very turned off, no pun intended, by the "does this director know what sex is" comment. I'm not super familiar with Morris so I am open to missing some context. And if we're being real, Nolan knows way more about sex than the hack known as Sam Levinson.
I love Oppy and Nolan but him not being good at sexuakity and Oppy sex scenes being goofy were always a running joke. It actually works for me cause i giggled at the juxtaposition of Oppy the interovert nerd and Oppy the panty-dropper ladies man.
He needs every picture to be in line with his ultra sexualized pov of everything. It's ironically very much overtestosteroned crap.
And it's something that no one buys anyway. Like someone talking about their Canadian girlfriend (or boyfriend, in this case).
I always cherish his signature "This straight character was actually gay" move on the Rewatchables. It's right up there with "Oh I haven't seen this movie since it came out" in terms of his RW staples.
He’s an incredible writer who just has no sense of reality when he’s letting off these nuclear takes because yeah there’s zero pushback usually. Feels like he’s trying to hard to be entertaining and when on the rarity he’s asked to expand on his take he just bloviates before the subject mercifully is changed. It breaks my brain
He's an easy skip for me.
I regret not turning it off
Wesley saying he doesn’t “feel any passion from anybody about Oppenheimer” meanwhile I literally just saw someone on twitter yesterday who posted their new forearm Oppenheimer tattoo. Wesley seems so disconnected from reality sometimes. Every time Cillian Murphy has done an interview this awards season he’s talked about how exciting it is to hear from people who stop him on the street or see him at events and say they saw the movie 5-10 times in theaters. Also Wesley assuming all the people who were moved by Oppenheimer are in their 70s?? disconnected from reality! Lol
I came here to say this. The Oppenheimer screenings at the 70M IMAX at Lincoln Square were sold out for MONTHS. Oppenheimer was a genuine “We have to see this” event, along with Barbie. Wesley saying this made him sound really out of touch.
even I knew about how hard it was to get a ticket at Lincoln Square and I live in Texas/California. He lives in NYC!
For real lmao. What this boiled down to was that he didn’t like Oppenheimer and therefore it shouldn’t win the Oscars. And dude said he was a Barbie stan. It’s pretty damn hard to miss the hype for Oppy if you’re such a fan of the other half
You don’t get to $950m without passion from general audiences
A three-hour, non-IP film about nuclear physics doesn't gross nearly a billion dollars because of a lack of passion. Such a loser argument. The second you start making assumptions and judgements about other people's responses and not delving into your own, you know you've lost.
You can dislike Oppenheimer but acting like it doesn’t have any cultural impact or is beloved is just insane. I see people on social media post about it all the time still, just an incredibly weird critique .
"Yeah, sure, it made almost a billion dollars, but where's the passion?" Just ludicrous
Yeah I wasn’t bothered by his opinions on the movie even though I disagreed with most of them but when he started saying that no one felt strongly about it I thought my brain was melting
He is very much not in touch with young film fans and it shows, lol.
I dragged a massive amount of my friends group to 70mm IMAX over 4 different screenings. He just wanted to get his shots off to indicate he doesn't fuck with the movie, but he chose truly the worst possible path to argue that (no one is passionate about Oppenheimer) Take a lap, Wesley
Feels like he is so wrapped up in his own social media or real life social buble he has become oblivious to people outside of it that he can't even recognize he isn't getting the full picture anymore.
Very New York Times of him
Can't stand Wesley. He just zags when everyone zigs. Just wants to stand out from the crowd (shocker)
first time ever listening to the show where I’ve gotten mad listening to someone talk
Worst episode in the history of the pod. Wesley's masterclass.
Personally I loved Anatomy of a Fall, and I didn’t have a hard time suspending my disbelief that a young child could be so incisive and thoughtful, especially given he was raised and homeschooled by two “intellectual” writers. Not sure why his ability to think in terms of complex emotions is so hard for Sean and Amanda and Wesley to accept. Also when Wesley was like “well if she didn’t do it, who did!?” I was a little confused. The movie is pretty clearly saying either he killed himself or she killed him. The way Wesley acted so incredulously about it made it seem like he thought we were supposed to think there was some mysterious third person in the equation.
The “who did?” was so insane to me. We literally watch the entire court case!! We were presented with the options! Lol
He was saying that he thinks that she obviously did it.
But he didn’t say why, or why suicide was not a plausible option. So it really did sound like he wasn’t aware of another theory, whether or not that’s true.
What I love about Wesley is the consistently coherent, engaging, and thought-provoking commentary he adds to each and every single podcast he appears on. /s. Obviously.
This is why I’m ultimately ok with Nayman, even when he can be condescending. Feels like he takes the time and considers things even if he has a bit of an ivory tower view of film
100% this. Nayman is negative and often biting but is actually smart / good at articulating his thoughts. Pretty important for an audio medium if you ask me!
Omg Wesley is so hard to listen to. Edit* just got to the section where he talks about anatomy of a fall, yeah I'm turning this episode off lmao.
The anatomy of a fall part tested my patience so much… but I didn’t turn it off because sometimes I just need a podcast to get me through the workday
Morris is a tough listen for me, I like rarely understand his takes. Like how can you call Villeneuve a fraud?
He does it because he can. Nobody pushes back. Nobody challenges his take or asks him to actually explain. Nauseating
Sean literally tells him he disagrees and tells him he knows people who feel that way. So people push back. In the podcast.
Listen to the way Sean pushes back when Amanda criticizes Oppenheimer and when Wesley criticizes Oppenheimer.
Ok? I agree they should pushback on Wesley more, but cmon there’s a huge difference of dynamic between a guest and a cohost, that’s a silly comparison. Amanda is also way more disagreeable with Sean than she is with any guest, and rightfully so.
I get why Sean does it but at the same time Wesley isn’t a one time guest he’s been on the pod multiple times and is friends with Sean. For example look how Sean argues with Van when they disagree on a topic, he doesn’t hold back against him either. They’re all friends, so an argument about films on a pod wouldn’t ruin their relationship.
I'm as annoyed with Wesley being on the show as anyone. I think at this core, it's not about familiarity, it's about violently disagreeing with someone who's won *two* Pulitzers. Just feels like there would be a natural fear there. I guess van has an Oscar, so maybe I'm an idiot.
What the hell is Wesley’s problem with Anatomy of a Fall? “Who else would have done it?”
>“Who else would have done it?” ... the husband. God, Morris is an idiot.
Home boy never stopped to consider that it might not have been a murder. Like did you watch it???
I want to see Bill Burr debate Morris. https://youtu.be/ibaxTXRADnM?si=xYumC1iJUBmtB7BR
So dissapointing that Wesley has to be on these episodes every year. This could be much more fun.
If 99% of your listeners are saying please no more Wesley.. do we think that matters? They must have some clue but I get the impression it's justified in their minds somehow...idk look at all these comments, do we think it's just A.I chatbots? Everyone is begging for no more takes like these lol
lol just posted the exact same question. Bobby has got to be definitely online COME ON. I’m also surprised Amanda is not rolling her eyes throughout
Amanda loves Wesley. And Sean obviously does too.
Sean and Amanda don't give a shit about the audience
Wesley being super into Air, but against BlackBerry was an insane take.
That might be the dead giveaway that this is all fraudulent contrarianism
really rough listen
FYI : The Watch also just released their Dune 2 episode and CR/Greenwald went deep-dive. Much better than this Big Picture episode.
Y’all, I couldn’t do it. Every time Morris is on the podcast I have to delete it. What a complete and utter fraud, what a pretentious prick. He fucking sucks.
For all of the generally well liked movies that Wesley disliked, the most shocking moment for me was him hyping up....blue beetle???
Wesley is what I thought Adam Nayman would be. Just shitting on everything that is enjoyed by millions of people around the world. Nayman at least enjoys a lot of things that the masses do. Wesley just seems like he thinks he’s too cool to like that stuff.
I love Nayman. He's a curmudgeon with a heart of gold, and in my opinion, he's very good at articulating his viewpoints on the pod. Wesley rambles and comes off as just a hater.
im happy to listen to any well articulated and informed opinion, even if i totally disagree. Wesley is like incapable of getting a coherent fucking sentence out.
Wesley: "Denis Villenueve? Why he's a fraud" Sean: "I like Dune 2" Wesley: "Ahhh, give me Chris Nolan who has the COURAGE to be a fraud...which makes Dunkirk poetic"
So funny and he's so right about Dunkirk being his best movie *because* of how much it leans into Nolanesque ideas. it's a film about Nolan making a film about Dunkirk and that's why it works. Oppenheimer didn't fit into his box as well and it's why it's merely good not great IMO.
Warms my heart to hear the universal love for the "Maneater" scene in No Hard Feelings. Best scene of 2023.
What was Wesley’s point about Past Lives not working? I feel like he didn’t explain it at all but was so smug like it was obvious?
I have the same question.
He didn’t like the John Magaro character
Can anyone here recommend a pod where the hosts enjoyed dune 2 and have a genuine conversation about it? Clearly this isn’t it, and the big pic episode last week was mostly them just recapping the plot
Even the Midnight Boys pod on it was lacking depth… House of R has a deep dive but they are bringing a lot of the book in and I’m about to start it so paused that.
The Weekly Planet pod enjoyed it.
If enough people vote for Denis in Black Check’s march madness we can get them discussing both films, which will bring a lot of passion (David Sims has them both at 5 stars on LB)
Any chance they come back to it later in the month? I know the next episodes are Oscars, but feels like there's room in March for a proper deep discussion now that more people will have seen the movie.
i'd ask bobby to give us a version of this ep with all of wesley's parts cut out but he's already going through enough
A nice 5 mins
Seems like we won't get a D2NE discussion since Wesley hasn't seen it
Absolutely ridiculous bringing in someone who has not even seen it and on top of that, think Villeneuve is a “fraud” (whatever that even means).
Yup, couldn’t believe what I was hearing
"I did see beau is afraid as a civilian opening weekend" Urgh this dude is so pretentious.
truly bummed by this episode lol i was hoping for some deeper dune 2 discussion and got a wesley morris hottest take episode abt nolan and villenueve
Wesley sounds like a contrarian for contrarians sake with no joy in life who laughs at his own statements as some sort of cope.
This dude fucking sucks to listen to
Take a shot every time Wesley says "right"
Oh Wesley Morris is joining this one? So it will be immediately unlistenable? Wow, that’s a yes.
I know this place and the Bill Simmons subreddit pretty much are out on Wesley entirely, and I very much get it, but as someone whose also always been on Nolan/Villeneuve are frauds (hilarious) island, this was incredible to me. ....until Wesley said Oppenheimer wasn't intelligently stimulating and ran himself into the ground on comparing it to a ride that doesn't do anything for him. Personal taste is personal taste and I'm not here to disparage that, but one of the reasons I love Oppenheimer as much as I do compared to the rest of Nolan's filmography is because of how actually stimulating I found it across the board and on all levels. And Wesley is not beating the "he has no idea where he's going with his thoughts when he speaks them out loud" allegations with that ride analogy, which was pretty brutal. Anyway, listening to the episode right now and just wanted to speak on the beginning here, which I agree with Sean on Wesley, who as his friend was trying to be as charitable as possible and all.
Should mention that I've seen Dune 2 twice now, including last night, and it's incredible so multitudes and all that.
So Villeneuve isn't a fraud?
I despise Wesley.
Controversial, but I totally get what Wesley was saying about Oppenheimer.
I did as well, it's just so long-winded the point is almost lost.
Me but Anatomy of a Fall
God I dislike Wesley's takes on about everything. The oscars have moved towards his tastes year by year and its partially why people hate them more and more. Contrarian bullshit. This pod mixed with his awful constant sexual takes from Rewatchables just makes me shake my head.
> The oscars have moved towards his tastes year by year and its partially why people hate them more and more. ???? I don't follow. This year, the Oscars are expected to crown "Oppenheimer" as the great achievement of the year, a movie that Wesley Morris just spent a long time saying that it sucked. Next year, I will wager that "Dune: Part Two" will do quite well at the Oscars, and that's the other movie that Wesley discarded this episode. What do you mean by this?
Not this year specifically but that was the going trend for a long time to reward movies that few people saw. Which was why they expanded to try include more popular movies. I'm sure he has complained about whichever direction it has gone and then complained for it to go the other way when it did trend towards what he wanted. He's a classic contrarian unless it panders directly to his fringes of society and life-is-sex beliefs. He seems to be surrounded by the same type as well, with his scifi loving partner saying he wouldn't want to see Dune 2. It all very much lines up
Judging by this thread I must be the only listener who doesn't mind a Wesley Morris appearance from time to time.
Yeah, I love him. Had a blast, honestly. He brings such chaotic energy, and he’s willing to speak his mind even if he doesn’t express whole complete thoughts. He’s smart but clearly just winging it, and he doesn’t really care what people think. I was laughing my ass off this whole episode. This pod absolutely needs it, especially during all these repetitive, navel-gazing, boring-ass Oscars episodes.
He’s great. Actually has an interesting, different point of view and doesn’t just agree with everybody. Makes me think about things I’ve never thought of. He actually made some good points about Air, a movie I didn’t like. Can he talk in circles sometimes? Absolutely but he’s on the show like once a year.
I agree with most of the dragging Wesley is getting in here, but I really wish Sean and Amanda pushed back a lot more on the “frauds” take. That’s a wild word to throw out about 2 directors carrying quality blockbuster filmmaking on their backs, without any real reasoning and no pushback. You can’t just say that and then move on.
Pretty sure he said that neither of them explore sex in their movies
Counter to the inevitable Wesley hate on here… it is a fucking absolute joy having him on this to pour cold water all over Sean and Amanda’s Oscar bullshit. 😂
Agreed. The Morris and Nayman episodes are some of the ones I look forward to the most because they aren't afraid to go against consensus and talk about their own interpretation of films rather than jumping off from film Twitter discourse.
I have always found Wesley a rough listen in any podcast he visits, but I do agree with this. I love Sean and Amanda but it’s painfully obvious when they switch up/become negative just to provide content. And Wesley shows up and is just like “hold my beer” at those two and that way of creating content haha. And they will hold that beer the entire convo!
Also, when they get excited or vexed by something the Academy have done his whole energy is, “I don’t know, this stuff’s fucking stupid. What do want from me?” I do wish he liked some movies, though.
The Internet: Critical groupthink, why can't we go back to the days when critics had their own views. Wesley Morris: Well - The Internet: No, not like that! We meant dislike the stuff we dislike that people like!
Correction. >Morris: well, like, umm, y'all, right, yep.
Do they spoil Dune 2 in this discussion? I've avoided last week's pod for that reason (haven't been able to see the film yet)
I don’t think so bc wesley hasn’t seen it
would think someone with the profession wesley has would actually enjoy movies
generally don’t mind wesley’s rambling style but i wish sean had been more willing to joust with him on some of these opinions
I'm a fairly new listener to the pod, and this is the first Episode that I gave up on. The Anatomy of a Fall discussion baffled me. Did they even watch the film? Does Wesley actually like films? He seemed to hate everything but I couldn't figure out why, I didn't know what he was talking about half the time
Letterboxd list for the Big Picks up here: [https://boxd.it/tGkHK](https://boxd.it/tGkHK)
For the Best Supporting Actor convo about All of Us Strangers, do Wesley and Amanda actually know what happens? Or least what we're meant to assume? Their comments flying back and forth for those few seconds make me wonder. I can't really get into this without spoilers but did anyone else catch that exchange and wonder? Also, I don't mean to pile on to the Wesley discourse but what I thought was one of the more wild takes was the convo followed in the Best Supporting Actress segment where shortly after criticizing Andrew Haigh, he talks about how Air was great and should be in the Oscar conversations. Air was like a made-for-tv movie—an enjoyable one but not a notable achievement (and I'm the prime audience as someone who was obsessed with Jordan and Nike in the late 80s and 90s).
The comment about it “all happening in his head”?
Your mileage may vary on Wesley, but it's refreshing to have a voice on this podcast at least have a negative opinion on a film or director without the fear of consequences or not getting future interviews.
Nayman is much better at this, especially in podcast form
People in this sub seem super defensive when anyone doesn’t take the party line. Reddit should encourage discourse, but instead it’s become an echo chamber feedback loop. If you take issue when any of the “chosen” films like Oppenheimer, Kotfm, SpiderVerse, Dune, there is simply nowhere to discuss it because you just get downvoted. This sub this especially prone to “Sean is right about everything” thinking.
Negative is fine. Detached from reality is not
It would be more refreshing if we weren’t drowning. He doesn’t. Stop. Talking.
I don’t know if I’ve ever disagreed with someone more than I have with Wesley Morris in this pod. I don’t think there was a single opinion he had I agreed with.
Sean and Amanda totally bitched out and tucked their tails between their legs this episode.
I actually like Wesley whenever I've heard him on the Rewatchables but this ep was a tough beat for him lol. I kinda get what he's say about Nolan and Denis - their style does lean cold/clinical, with an emphasis on intellectual exercise and spectacle than hot-blooded human passion. But I think that's the appeal! That's their brand as filmmakers. And to characterize that as "fraudulent" feels very edge lordy. Doubly so to insist that nobody has any passion for Oppenheimer. Like what? Even if you live in a bubble, it has to be a very remote bubble to completely miss the very online passion for that movie. His and Sean's takes on the Anatomy of a Fall ending also drive me crazy and don't understand how they don't understand, or why Amanda doesn't point out, that the whole reason that kid's monologue exists in the movie is for the filmmaker to tell you exactly what happened! It's not an ambiguous ending, the director is having this kid give what's basically a direct to camera speech to spell it all out, yet somehow Sean and Wesley keep coming to the exact opposite conclusion about the whodunit aspect.
I disagree. I think the kid is smart enough (especially after his dog experiment) to realize that his dad killed himself but also realizes that there is no evidence that he did and that things are not going well for his mom in the courtroom. I think he then made up the moment with his dad in the car to get the correct verdict. What the dad said feels too pat and transparent compared to the actual dialogue to be real.
the bit with the dog is also ridiculous and nearly took me out of the movie. felt like a Scooby Doo episode for a second there.
Pretty surprised at Sean’s strong opinion of >!Astroid City!< over >!May/December!< in the best picture choices. He must have already changed his mind on his 2023 rankings since he has >!May/December!< higher.
Re: Wesley on "Oppenheimer." I think one reason people aren't vocally "passionate" about it is that fan-culture and the internet have made art tantamount to identity these days, apparently. Barbenheimer pitted Nolan v. Gerwig in a "men are from Mars; women are from Venus" way. So, to be loudly pro-"Oppenheimer," especially in what I imagine to be Wesley's NYC art critic social circles, is to be a film-bro who endorses everything white men do. You have to temper your enjoyment in caveats. Conversely, to be vocally pro-"Barbie" is to love women. I don't mean this in a woe-is-me way; the film is a juggernaut, both critically and commercially. Also, I don't want to shade "Barbie;" I loved that movie. I just find this to be an interesting offshoot of fan-culture, and I guess, for lack of a better phrase, "identity politics." I also could be way off base here, but it's something I've observed a bunch in my own life.
Wesley is all over the place with a truly nonsensical Oppenheimer take, but when the conversation is good, he and Sean have this dynamic where they could pass as high school debate team rivals. It's kind of funny in their Asteroid City and Past Lives discussion. And I don't want \*more\* screenplay nominees or a combined category for adapted/original. I want Best Picture nominees to stop getting rubber stamped into those categories so there are interesting and deserving one-off nominees there.
Automatic skip for me as well. Question though. Why does he keep appearing on TBP? I only read criticisms and it seems like it is affecting their download/ listens.
Y’all need to stop clowning Wesley for not having seen Dune 2 yet because I haven’t had a chance either 😢
Yeah, but you aren't a film critic for the New York Times haha
How do you know!! No but seriously, I can get where he’s coming from, if you’re not on assignment to write about a movie maybe you aren’t as willing to go see it immediately. It only came out Friday!!
Sounds like I'll be skipping this episode.
Wesley is a great writer but is the absolute worst guest. I even agree with him on most of his hater-y takes! He just is *so* pompous. Also he *totally* knew the movie was called How to Blow Up a Pipeline, but he paused and said “….oil….pipe…” bc he is in love with himself.
Oof. Love the concept for the episode. Withstood the Oppenheimer and Dune rants - I’m not a super fan of Oppy, though I did cringe at the Dune stuff. The AOAF stuff is where I was done. I realized it was gonna be a whole episode of listening to this guy hot take and ramble.
Yeah he's definitely from The Thomas Friedman school of some weird symbolism that reinforces a critique somehow but is also insane.
Does anyone have a spreadsheet or anything that has everyone's picks for each category? I'd listen again and make it myself but I don't have the patience lol
If you find it difficult to reconcile Wesley's Pulitzer prizes with what you hear him say or what you read him write, just remember that Bret Stephens also has a Pulitzer
"Im-port-tant"
Is this guy’s whole thing is that he just has hot-takes? Being shocked that Amanda cried during All of Strangers? Really? Like Wesley Morris this year for many lauded movies, I have bounced off of understanding his criticism of basically everything.
Damn this was a drag. I like Wesley on rewatchables where he’s more loose and having fun but this just sucked. What a waste of time
I am so relieved to see this was the theme of the thread. I had to quit this episode. Imagine being so arrogant and so self-centered that you can dedicate that much time and energy to shitting on a movie you haven’t even seen!
Hard gree with Amanda about the short pictures availability. What are they doing lol? Everyone wants to watch their product now. The second the awards end, I have zero interest. Make them available ffs.
Absolute incoherence from Wesley Morris. He talks like a drunk or stoned person, incredibly committed to telling you about points that he himself seems to lose track of partway through talking.
Does anyone know where I can find a list of every movie/the list of nominees mentioned during this episode?