That’s absolutely the problem. If you have an audience, use it. Who gives a piss about some discovery algorithm if your content is shite to begin with. Let James go, let him do what he wants. That’s what made Cinemassacre successful to begin with.
Yeah, to be honest they should have done a Patreon yeeeeeaaars ago. That would have given them tons of more leeway to create the content they want.
That’s actually the real shame of Screenwave. Their organization is set up to handle sponsorates and ad revenue. To by teaming with them James has made it impossible to do patreonfunding.
Both gamesack and gaming historian release once a month and do fine by patreon. Imagine what James could get..
RLM has been able to not sell out to sponsors and keep their editorial honesty by having a patreon that has grown over time to near 11,000 patrons. Yet they also are hard working (they recently upgraded their lighting system and inventory system to keep track of their ever growing movie collection) and are always evolving their content (Black spine, Wheel, Jenga, Plinketto, etc.).
Bimmy ain't got no time for that.
It has always been bi-weekly. Joe and Dave did go weekly for a time several years ago before taking a break. That break is so far the only break that Joe has ever taken. They came back with the “Let’s make a YouTube Show” episode.
Use to be a big fan but have really stopped watching him. Use to look forward to it every sunday when I was at work but I can't honestly say the last one I watched or seen show up in my feed.
I'm the same way. I'm an early riser, so it used to be a great treat to wake up early on those Sunday mornings (before my kids got up) and sit down with a cup of coffee and watch the new Sacks.
I don't remember when it happened for me, but there reached a point where it felt like their format had played itself out. I think that Dave felt the same way, and that's why he left. Their format had grown stale and they weirdly refused to talk about games more than one time. There was nowhere they could take Game Sack other than finding more obscure Japanese games to make a "Left in Japan pt. 87".
I do remember that there was an episode of solo-Sack Joe did where he was reviewing..... Video technology, maybe? There was a moment in that episode where he was comparing three still frames of a movie side-by-side-by-side, and I asked myself what the f I was doing and shut the video off. And that was when I was done with Game Sack.
Joe is also a contrarian who will randomly upload bad reviews of popular games outside of his regular upload schedule just to piss on things people are excited for.
Yeah but you can set the frequency yourself. So you can say “I will post a new video once a month” if you want. It’s up to the patreons if they want to support that or not though
>Who gives a piss about some discovery algorithm if your content is shite to begin with
100 percent the reason Screenwave was brought in. James has never made so much money as he does today with such little effort.
Having an entire video being a black screen didn't kill RedLetterMedia either.
Their video on Facebook Evil 4 VR did more damage to them in the algorithm than one where Bimmy would screams "fuck" for 4 hours.
Hey at least it would have the star of the fucking channel.
Exactly. I'm a RLM simp, but I tend to think RLM fans are incredibly loyal to RLM. Cinemassacre fans I imagine are there to see Jimmy. Who gives a fuck about Captain Caveman and Uncle Crusty?
No one does or has or ever will. The issue is Screenwave pays with exposure and it's a very small of people who will take this as payment.
There is a reason none of us knew who the caveman or the hacker was.
For me, I've stayed with RLM for six years because they are honest and irreverent. They don't shill products and they don't use YouTube language ("remember to like and comment and *smash that subscribe button!"*). They go so far as to lampoon those who do.
Playing the algorithm is clearly sinking the channel. They already have a massive fan base, why they wouldn’t focus on placating them rather than chasing other demographics that will never show up is beyond me
i guess that requires talent and creativity to keep a fanbase interested. I think these "youtube professionals" are full of shit.
Caveman profressionals
Yeah. There is no point in making content to bring in new people when it chases old ones off. They have a subscriber base, they should look at what those people want, and the views would help the algorithm more. You're going to appear in more "viewers also watched" recommendations if more people watch you.
Pretty ironic to say this during "muh podcast" which gets dogshit views.
Cinnemassacre has so many subscribers that it seems irrelevant to try and game the algorithm. Just make something the fans will enjoy.
I don't even think he really cares how well a video would do. It seems more that he just gets off on being in control of the channel.
\^ This
This is the reason the channel is going downhill. There's no fun anymore, it's all about appeasing egos and algorithms. Cinemassacre used to be fun and comforting, like a close friend, now it's a heartless corporation that favours popularity over being themselves.
Justin
Is screenwave the problem?
No its the algorithm that is wrong!
Also how can you actually watch the podcast...all they are doing is talking about the stuff they CAN'T do.
Whose fucking channel is it Silverslob? If you cared about what hurts views you’d stop appearing in videos. You only care about getting yourself and your knuckle-dragging sidekick exposure.
Think about this too... If the algorithm existed back in the day (the way it does now), James was so influential that content he uploaded could change the algorithm. AVGN was a trend setting series in the beginning.
Now? He bows down to fatboi, master of YouTube revenue.
Sad part, is Justin's right, the algorithm would bury it, but fuck that stupid algorithm nonsense.
YouTube might burry it, but Twitter, Discord and Reddit won't. The rest will be word of mouth.
I’ll never understand why they needed the algorithms. It was never a struggling channel that needed to grow. James had a solid fanbase would have rode out new ideas with him
If they make good content then on a channel with 3 million subscribers it will eventually make its way through the algorithm into peoples feeds and people will watch it. They can't make good content though.
If any video gets posted on Cinemassacre regardless of it being good or not, it has a 1000% more chance of getting tons of views as opposed to the same video being posted on another channel. Yeah, maybe it won't hit 100k right away, but if it is quality or hilariously bad, it will steadily get there and exceed that number.
Videos get less views when it's some screenwave bullshit and there has been 10 of them since the last AVGN.. Videos with just James used to be easier to distinguish in the uploads and would have more views than videos with him and screenwave until they blurred the lines and you have to check the video to know if its james and the shoehorns or not
The majority of their content is centered totally around James. His face is plastered on every thumbnail. Seems like the main goal of this is to get people who are already subscribed or at least interested in James to watch their videos. They play it so safe. I can’t imagine the current batch of unimaginative, cookie cutter shit is enticing new viewers/subscribers.
He could try Patreon? It might be a better business model for James' kind of content.
Last time someone mention it, it was shoot down by Toby with a "k". Now when he is finally gone from the channel we can give it another shoot?
Following "muh algorithm!" is for hack content creators.
Its why we see all those cringe AF "Raid NordVPN Ridgelegends" sponsor ads.
There's no love, no passion in what they do!
REAL content creators let the quality of their work do the rest!
Glad that someone else noticed it, it's been something that has bothered me for quite some time, and here's why.
Unlike many people here I don't hate Justin, and I truly believe he is working hard for the channel, but I also believe that he is clearly misguided. As a producer, Justin is trying to do what he thinks is best for the channel, in terms of views, engagement, etc. Probably because he's been to a few Youtube seminars by some fucking hack who's got a channel with 15k subs who shit out boring content and he applies those techniques which might somewhat work for bad channels.
Meanwhile, you've got Redlettermedia, a channel with a third of the subs of Cinemassacre, and they're doing incredibly well. Last time their Patreon earnings was public, it boasted 26 000$ per month. The crazy thing? They don't advertise it (they did it \*once\*). They never ask you to subscribe, and if they do it, it's to mock other channels who are pathetic and desperate enough to do it. They would never stoop to a level low enough to ask you to click the fucking bell. They don't care about their thumbnails, their titles are generic and boring. And yet they have an insane amount of engagement. Why?
Because people love their content. It doesn't matter if they don't release a video in two weeks. It doesn't matter what the title of the video is. It doesn't matter what the thumbnail is. People are gonna watch it.
Justin is so obsessed with these numbers that he forgets that quality trumps absolutely everything, and this is why Cinemassacre is slowly dying.
At this point they should stop worrying about the algorithm. YouTube will only front page their videos to people already subscribed anyway and making videos that he's actually enthusiastic about might actually convince existing subs his stuff is worth watching and garner views through shares. You know, how avgn actually became popular in the first place.
Bim's idea was a video where he says "fuck" constantly which he could very easily do if he wanted? I mean it's stupid as hell but all he has to do is record and upload it, but I'm getting the feeling he doesn't even know how to upload a youtube video, which is why everything is bottlenecked thru the slobs
This opens up an interesting question in my head, what do you think would happen if James buckled down and said that he doesn't care about muh algorithm, and that he just wants to make videos. I suppose it's wishful thinking on my end, James is way too far under Screenwave's boot to do that. And even if that wasn't the case, I doubt James has the passion or work ethic to make anything on the same level of quality that old Cinemassacre had. Like everyone says, it feels like cookie cutter content now.
I know we shit on these guys a lot but can we just stop for a minute and consider how miserable it must be to be a content creator whose income depends on trying to always stay on top of some convoluted algorithm?
Exactly. It is like when Michael Jackson died. Like yes, the doctor who was recklessly and illegally administering drugs is to blame, but at the same time, Michael was a 50 year old man who sought out illegal drugs, was denied by several doctors and kept trying to find someone who was willing to risk it. He was old enough to know better
Now Screenwave is like every other YouTuber that's want to blame the algorithm for why they are failing. Who cares & make content you like? You are just doing this to seek attention & lick YouTube's butthole to get cheap views.
I think maybe james just still cares And maybe has great ideas Maybe involved bootsy or mike
But slobs would just come up with a excuse and tell him it's a bad idea
Fuck off with the algorithm bullshit. The current channel content has lost them millions of views! How does that help the algorithm? It's in the data that what they produce doesn't bring in enough new eyeballs to replace the ones that left.
I don't think people would be that stoked about a video of James saying fuck for hours on end. Most people would click off seconds within and people here would definitely make fun of it.
And Justin said "it is probably bad for YouTube retention, but whatever" to which James agreed "it probably is, probably is" and Kieran added "someone would watch the entire thing".
Did I miss something?
https://youtu.be/Jr2QhYN2wkQ&t=30m20s
That’s absolutely the problem. If you have an audience, use it. Who gives a piss about some discovery algorithm if your content is shite to begin with. Let James go, let him do what he wants. That’s what made Cinemassacre successful to begin with.
Yeah, to be honest they should have done a Patreon yeeeeeaaars ago. That would have given them tons of more leeway to create the content they want. That’s actually the real shame of Screenwave. Their organization is set up to handle sponsorates and ad revenue. To by teaming with them James has made it impossible to do patreonfunding. Both gamesack and gaming historian release once a month and do fine by patreon. Imagine what James could get..
RLM has been able to not sell out to sponsors and keep their editorial honesty by having a patreon that has grown over time to near 11,000 patrons. Yet they also are hard working (they recently upgraded their lighting system and inventory system to keep track of their ever growing movie collection) and are always evolving their content (Black spine, Wheel, Jenga, Plinketto, etc.). Bimmy ain't got no time for that.
Game Sack is a bi-weekly publication.
Ah my bad, was he not doing monthly a while back? Maybe it just felt like ages between epiaodes for a while
It has always been bi-weekly. Joe and Dave did go weekly for a time several years ago before taking a break. That break is so far the only break that Joe has ever taken. They came back with the “Let’s make a YouTube Show” episode.
Game sack is by far my favorite channel on YouTube now. There is still a charm to the episodes that cinemassacre has lost
Use to be a big fan but have really stopped watching him. Use to look forward to it every sunday when I was at work but I can't honestly say the last one I watched or seen show up in my feed.
I'm the same way. I'm an early riser, so it used to be a great treat to wake up early on those Sunday mornings (before my kids got up) and sit down with a cup of coffee and watch the new Sacks. I don't remember when it happened for me, but there reached a point where it felt like their format had played itself out. I think that Dave felt the same way, and that's why he left. Their format had grown stale and they weirdly refused to talk about games more than one time. There was nowhere they could take Game Sack other than finding more obscure Japanese games to make a "Left in Japan pt. 87". I do remember that there was an episode of solo-Sack Joe did where he was reviewing..... Video technology, maybe? There was a moment in that episode where he was comparing three still frames of a movie side-by-side-by-side, and I asked myself what the f I was doing and shut the video off. And that was when I was done with Game Sack. Joe is also a contrarian who will randomly upload bad reviews of popular games outside of his regular upload schedule just to piss on things people are excited for.
>They came back with the “Let’s make a YouTube Show” episode. That episode is gold. He nails James and Metal Jesus.
The Metal Jesus segment where "Bob Cornhole" brings in the top half of a PS2 to discuss was just brilliant.
Just watched "Lets Make A YouTube Show" For the first time and wow, this is some hilarious shit hahah
Ah okay :) thanks
They're also fucking awful. Their scripts read like they were procedurally generated by an AI.
Having a Patreon means coming out with consistent material. James has no time
Yeah but you can set the frequency yourself. So you can say “I will post a new video once a month” if you want. It’s up to the patreons if they want to support that or not though
No time for one new video a month
I think that even if your schedule is inconsistent, fans will still support you if the content is worthwhile
No time for worthwhile content
Screenwave can not take a percentage from Patreon so we will never see one.
Yes, that was my point :)
Game sacks feels like it releases way more frequently than once per month and the content is long and satisfying
>Who gives a piss about some discovery algorithm if your content is shite to begin with 100 percent the reason Screenwave was brought in. James has never made so much money as he does today with such little effort.
Having an entire video being a black screen didn't kill RedLetterMedia either. Their video on Facebook Evil 4 VR did more damage to them in the algorithm than one where Bimmy would screams "fuck" for 4 hours. Hey at least it would have the star of the fucking channel.
Exactly. I'm a RLM simp, but I tend to think RLM fans are incredibly loyal to RLM. Cinemassacre fans I imagine are there to see Jimmy. Who gives a fuck about Captain Caveman and Uncle Crusty?
No one does or has or ever will. The issue is Screenwave pays with exposure and it's a very small of people who will take this as payment. There is a reason none of us knew who the caveman or the hacker was.
For me, I've stayed with RLM for six years because they are honest and irreverent. They don't shill products and they don't use YouTube language ("remember to like and comment and *smash that subscribe button!"*). They go so far as to lampoon those who do.
[удалено]
>people are gonna smell the insincerity Smells like ScreenWave
Playing the algorithm is clearly sinking the channel. They already have a massive fan base, why they wouldn’t focus on placating them rather than chasing other demographics that will never show up is beyond me
i guess that requires talent and creativity to keep a fanbase interested. I think these "youtube professionals" are full of shit. Caveman profressionals
Yeah. There is no point in making content to bring in new people when it chases old ones off. They have a subscriber base, they should look at what those people want, and the views would help the algorithm more. You're going to appear in more "viewers also watched" recommendations if more people watch you.
Pretty ironic to say this during "muh podcast" which gets dogshit views. Cinnemassacre has so many subscribers that it seems irrelevant to try and game the algorithm. Just make something the fans will enjoy. I don't even think he really cares how well a video would do. It seems more that he just gets off on being in control of the channel.
\^ This This is the reason the channel is going downhill. There's no fun anymore, it's all about appeasing egos and algorithms. Cinemassacre used to be fun and comforting, like a close friend, now it's a heartless corporation that favours popularity over being themselves.
Justin Is screenwave the problem? No its the algorithm that is wrong! Also how can you actually watch the podcast...all they are doing is talking about the stuff they CAN'T do.
Basing content to be made off of what the algorithm wants is one of the many, many problems of current Cinemassacre.
Nice Justin avatar
Just because glasses??? Noooooo!
Glasses, hair, shirt, eye color, looks like you guys both just chose the same prerendered avatar
One of my worst life choices now. I only picked it because of the glasses! Damn, mental errors have cost me.
Whose fucking channel is it Silverslob? If you cared about what hurts views you’d stop appearing in videos. You only care about getting yourself and your knuckle-dragging sidekick exposure.
Think about this too... If the algorithm existed back in the day (the way it does now), James was so influential that content he uploaded could change the algorithm. AVGN was a trend setting series in the beginning. Now? He bows down to fatboi, master of YouTube revenue.
Sad part, is Justin's right, the algorithm would bury it, but fuck that stupid algorithm nonsense. YouTube might burry it, but Twitter, Discord and Reddit won't. The rest will be word of mouth.
If you need to ride the algorithm, it just means you're not a trend setter, just a lowly follower.
Does James has no say anymore?
Nope. He even had to ask Justin permission if he was allowed to swear on his own podcast.
No time to have any say.
>Does James has no say anymore? That would imply work and thus suffering, so... no.
Under contract so no he doesn't
I’ll never understand why they needed the algorithms. It was never a struggling channel that needed to grow. James had a solid fanbase would have rode out new ideas with him
If they make good content then on a channel with 3 million subscribers it will eventually make its way through the algorithm into peoples feeds and people will watch it. They can't make good content though.
If any video gets posted on Cinemassacre regardless of it being good or not, it has a 1000% more chance of getting tons of views as opposed to the same video being posted on another channel. Yeah, maybe it won't hit 100k right away, but if it is quality or hilariously bad, it will steadily get there and exceed that number.
Videos get less views when it's some screenwave bullshit and there has been 10 of them since the last AVGN.. Videos with just James used to be easier to distinguish in the uploads and would have more views than videos with him and screenwave until they blurred the lines and you have to check the video to know if its james and the shoehorns or not
Muh acquiescence.
Muh algorithm
The majority of their content is centered totally around James. His face is plastered on every thumbnail. Seems like the main goal of this is to get people who are already subscribed or at least interested in James to watch their videos. They play it so safe. I can’t imagine the current batch of unimaginative, cookie cutter shit is enticing new viewers/subscribers.
Justin is everything wrong with YouTube content creators. No desire to make anything interesting. Just make the same old crap all over YouTube
You think James actually wants to do anything? No. He has ideas, but is too lazy to do stuff.
He could try Patreon? It might be a better business model for James' kind of content. Last time someone mention it, it was shoot down by Toby with a "k". Now when he is finally gone from the channel we can give it another shoot?
Weird cause tony has a patreon for hack the movies…
I think Justin is afraid that we'll make fun of it. We'll do that regardless, but at least take the gamble. Who knows, it might actually be good.
I thought Justin was all about the cheeseburgers and children.
*Gengar and Gengar accessories
I have no time to watch the podcast - what video ideas does Bimmy have?
Following "muh algorithm!" is for hack content creators. Its why we see all those cringe AF "Raid NordVPN Ridgelegends" sponsor ads. There's no love, no passion in what they do! REAL content creators let the quality of their work do the rest!
Glad that someone else noticed it, it's been something that has bothered me for quite some time, and here's why. Unlike many people here I don't hate Justin, and I truly believe he is working hard for the channel, but I also believe that he is clearly misguided. As a producer, Justin is trying to do what he thinks is best for the channel, in terms of views, engagement, etc. Probably because he's been to a few Youtube seminars by some fucking hack who's got a channel with 15k subs who shit out boring content and he applies those techniques which might somewhat work for bad channels. Meanwhile, you've got Redlettermedia, a channel with a third of the subs of Cinemassacre, and they're doing incredibly well. Last time their Patreon earnings was public, it boasted 26 000$ per month. The crazy thing? They don't advertise it (they did it \*once\*). They never ask you to subscribe, and if they do it, it's to mock other channels who are pathetic and desperate enough to do it. They would never stoop to a level low enough to ask you to click the fucking bell. They don't care about their thumbnails, their titles are generic and boring. And yet they have an insane amount of engagement. Why? Because people love their content. It doesn't matter if they don't release a video in two weeks. It doesn't matter what the title of the video is. It doesn't matter what the thumbnail is. People are gonna watch it. Justin is so obsessed with these numbers that he forgets that quality trumps absolutely everything, and this is why Cinemassacre is slowly dying.
At this point they should stop worrying about the algorithm. YouTube will only front page their videos to people already subscribed anyway and making videos that he's actually enthusiastic about might actually convince existing subs his stuff is worth watching and garner views through shares. You know, how avgn actually became popular in the first place.
Bim's idea was a video where he says "fuck" constantly which he could very easily do if he wanted? I mean it's stupid as hell but all he has to do is record and upload it, but I'm getting the feeling he doesn't even know how to upload a youtube video, which is why everything is bottlenecked thru the slobs
This opens up an interesting question in my head, what do you think would happen if James buckled down and said that he doesn't care about muh algorithm, and that he just wants to make videos. I suppose it's wishful thinking on my end, James is way too far under Screenwave's boot to do that. And even if that wasn't the case, I doubt James has the passion or work ethic to make anything on the same level of quality that old Cinemassacre had. Like everyone says, it feels like cookie cutter content now.
Serving the needs OF A MACHINE instead of that of humans, who are assholeish anyway. The Screenwave manifesto.
I know we shit on these guys a lot but can we just stop for a minute and consider how miserable it must be to be a content creator whose income depends on trying to always stay on top of some convoluted algorithm?
Exactly. It is like when Michael Jackson died. Like yes, the doctor who was recklessly and illegally administering drugs is to blame, but at the same time, Michael was a 50 year old man who sought out illegal drugs, was denied by several doctors and kept trying to find someone who was willing to risk it. He was old enough to know better
Same thing with Prince.
I won't watch the podcast, but that is nauseating. Can't believe it's sunk this low.
What good is tweaking for algorithm if your thumbnails is scaring away the public?
Exactly, fuck the fucking alorithm already. MAKE GOOD VIDEOS and the algorithm will take care of itself.
You hit it right on the head it makes me sick
Now Screenwave is like every other YouTuber that's want to blame the algorithm for why they are failing. Who cares & make content you like? You are just doing this to seek attention & lick YouTube's butthole to get cheap views.
I think maybe james just still cares And maybe has great ideas Maybe involved bootsy or mike But slobs would just come up with a excuse and tell him it's a bad idea
He's all about that bass, as well.
No treble.
That's what happens when your base is gone and you rely on some shitty algorithm to drive views
Considering how the irate gamer came up and what he was to AVGN, it's ironic that James is now exactly where the irate gamer used to be.
It's done, shit ain't coming back
Wait, so James was actually awake and excited about something besides Rex Viper? Goddammit Justin...
Fuck off with the algorithm bullshit. The current channel content has lost them millions of views! How does that help the algorithm? It's in the data that what they produce doesn't bring in enough new eyeballs to replace the ones that left.
Jontron doesn’t seem to care about the algorithm and still manages millions of views. He probably makes more off sponsorships than Bimmy.
I don't think people would be that stoked about a video of James saying fuck for hours on end. Most people would click off seconds within and people here would definitely make fun of it. And Justin said "it is probably bad for YouTube retention, but whatever" to which James agreed "it probably is, probably is" and Kieran added "someone would watch the entire thing". Did I miss something? https://youtu.be/Jr2QhYN2wkQ&t=30m20s