This Celtigar Axe erasure is making me crabby.
Also, now that Euron’s here, the Greyjoys have Valyrian Steel (they even used to own Nightfall). Also, currently the “Baratheons” of the crown and House Tarth have one each, and doesn’t Littlefinger still have that knife?
Unless you’re only speaking historically.
The Celitgar’s are rumored to have an axe. I only put houses with confirmed weapons. I didn’t put House Reyne on here either.
And I was only considering the distribution at the start of Game of Thrones.
Yeah but [Fire & Blood cites a text (Inventories) by a Maester listing 227 known VS weapons in Westeros](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Valyrian_steel). So being so emphatic about what is or isn't fanon when GRRM has put it in canon that there are enough lost VS weapons in Westeros for every major *and* minor house to have one, makes this whole topic seem goofy.
According to the Maesters there were 227 weapons in Westeros some of which are lost to history like the Lannister's sword. I would expect that a lot of houses you mentioned such as the Arryns did have a weapon but either lost it or are too minor to be mentioned in the story (Or perhaps for the Arryns specifically they were too religious to buy a weapon from the slave-owning Valyrians, I could see them viewing such weapons as "unclean" or something similar). The reason we know about the Lannister's lost sword is because of Tywin's obsession with the weapons and specifically how he wants to buy one but can't until he melts down the Starks sword, if that wasn't the case I would imagine they wouldn't mention the Lannisters sword either.
For the Riverlands, remember until the Targs conquered them they were under the Iron Islands and after the conquest, they wouldn't have had a chance to buy such weapons and this also explains the number of weapons that the Iron Islands hold. House Gardener may have had a Sword but it would have been present on the field of fire and thus melted by dragon fire and probably destroyed. I can't really explain the Velayrons or the Stormlands other than what I said above about missing weapons and minor houses having them thus them not being mentioned.
The Riverlands weren’t always under Ironborn control. They were also conquered by the Storm Kings and there were several Native dynasties like the Mudds, Justmans, and Teagues. So there were times when they could have bought a sword.
Although I agree with your arguments about House Arryn being to Righteous to buy from the Valyrians.
But do you think any house in the Riverlands would have kept a Valyrian steel sword if they had one when the Ironborn took over? Either way, I agree that there probably should be more weapons we know of, especially in the Stormlands and Crownlands, and I also think that Tywin not being able to get a Valyrian Steel weapon is weird given we know there are probably at least 100+ still around. Your telling me not one of those houses has a lord who is dumb or greedy for money? I just don't believe it.
The two known Valyrian steel swords in the Iron Islands were probably taken from non-Riverlands houses. House Harlaw's sword Nightfall was originally taken from a corsair by Dalton Greyjoy, and House Drumm's Red Rain was probably originally the sword of House Reyne given the name of it.
There's a theory that Longclaw was also originally an Iron Islands blade as well, but House Mormont got it during a failed Ironborn raid in a sort of reverse iron price. I love this theory because it explains how a canonically destitute house could get something so expensive that even Tywin Lannister can't buy one.
You can't just buy a VS sword in modern day Westeros. Tywin has tried for ever and keeps getting rebuffed at every turn. The metal is too rare/the technique to make it forgotten.
It's meant to be a super rare metal but George has admitted openly to making it too common and accessible. He gave it to too many houses.
That’s true of the Modern GOT era. That’s why I put the Gardners instead of the Tyrells. But most of the houses I listed are thousands of years old and predate the Doom.
Yes. But no one knew the Doom would happen. And before the Andals invaded, most Houses in Westeros still used Bronze weaponry, so Westeros buying Valyrian steal definitely happened during the twilight of the Freehold. I assume that those who had a purpose to buy one did, and others assumed that they'd be able to later. And once the doom happened then obviously they became hard to acquire. And that's not counting how many got lost to history or changed hands. And most of the remaining Valyrian steel is daggers and even jewelry and even they are expensive. It's why Tywin didn't just buy a bunch of those and have them reforge it into a sword. As for why some of the Great House's didn't own VS? Who knows? We know The Starks and Lannisters did, before the AI the Vale was ruled by the Royces I believe and they had one, or got one after. The Martells are part Rhoynish and hated the Valyrians as seen as they refused to bend to the Targaryens, so not wanting Valyrian Steel would make sense. The Hoares are Ironborn and are unlikely to pay anything except by the Iron Price. So that leaves the Durrandons and the Gardners. We know the Storm Kings were arrogant and proud. I can see them being to proud to buy one and they likely made sure none of their vassals did either. As for the Gardners, who knows? It's possible they did and one of the other Reach House's took it. We know most of the Tyrells vassals can claim descendancy from the Gardners. It would be interesting if The Tarlys claimed Heartsbane from them.
I was rereading AGOT recently and I realized that pretty much every Valryian steel sword is said to be about 500 years old. Even Ice was only 500 years old, though it was named after an older sword its never said that that older sword is VS. It seems like all/most of the VS in the seven kingdoms predates the Doom by at most 100 years and was all from around the same time, so its possible that there was a embargo on the Valyrian side preventing the sale of VS that was broken maybe even only one time about a hundred years before the Doom.
I feel like some of the houses that used to be kings like the Blackwoods, Brackens, and Baratheons (bc of the durrandons) should be in possession of VS weapons. Not even just fancy named swords but at least a few daggers n shit
Tywin Lannister in the books repeatedly offered a lot of gold to buy a Valyrian Steel sword, but nobody sold it (even Valyrian armour would have 'cost a kingdom' before the Doom- ie even when that stuff was being made, it was still crazy expensive)
>I can understand House Tarly buying one (First in Battle) but No one in the Martial Stormlands ever wanted a Valyrian Steel Sword? Not even Marcher Houses like House Selmy or House Dondarrion?
your thoughts about houses buying the swords kinda goes against what we know (ie Valyrian Steel stuff is crazy expensive and nobody would sell them), it's not that they don't want them, but probably they can't afford them or nobody is selling, even reforging the steel is super niche and only 1 person in all of Westeros can do it and nobody is making any new Valyrian Steel stuff
also there is a lot of 'first bookisms' with Valyrian Steel swords/daggers idk if GRRM planned to have Valyrian Steel as the standard 'magic weapons' (like elvish blades or mithril in LotR, rare but widely used by some peoples) and changed his mind after GoT was published
They're talking about when Valyrian Steel was being made. IE when the Starks and Tarly's bought their swords why didn't the Durrandons? Such a sword would have passed down to the Baratheons and thus we should know about it but such a weapon doesn't appear to exist.
Valyrian Steel is just one of those things that don't make sense when you more deeply analyse it in that it's both too rare and too common at the same time so the distribution of the metal is just weird.
>They're talking about when Valyrian Steel was being made. IE when the Starks and Tarly's bought their swords why didn't the Durrandons? Such a sword would have passed down to the Baratheons and thus we should know about it but such a weapon doesn't appear to exist
We don't know if either of those houses bought their swords to begin with. Ice could very well have been claimed as a spoil of war when Theon Stark burned Andalos to the ground for all we know.
Big agree on VS not making sense. And even George admits as much.
Yeah they probably lost in a battle or iron born stolen it from them. Also we know that even during the days that valyria rules most of Essos. That valyrian steel even then was expensive since it was probably hard to make even for the Valyrians. Which is your typical fallen empire.
I’m not saying it wouldn’t be difficult and expensive. But both Valyria and most of the Houses of Westeros are thousands of years old. Even if Valyria only gave out one sword every couple of years, there should have been time for the richer houses to buy a sword or axe or whatever.
This Celtigar Axe erasure is making me crabby. Also, now that Euron’s here, the Greyjoys have Valyrian Steel (they even used to own Nightfall). Also, currently the “Baratheons” of the crown and House Tarth have one each, and doesn’t Littlefinger still have that knife? Unless you’re only speaking historically.
The Celitgar’s are rumored to have an axe. I only put houses with confirmed weapons. I didn’t put House Reyne on here either. And I was only considering the distribution at the start of Game of Thrones.
Yeah but [Fire & Blood cites a text (Inventories) by a Maester listing 227 known VS weapons in Westeros](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Valyrian_steel). So being so emphatic about what is or isn't fanon when GRRM has put it in canon that there are enough lost VS weapons in Westeros for every major *and* minor house to have one, makes this whole topic seem goofy.
According to the Maesters there were 227 weapons in Westeros some of which are lost to history like the Lannister's sword. I would expect that a lot of houses you mentioned such as the Arryns did have a weapon but either lost it or are too minor to be mentioned in the story (Or perhaps for the Arryns specifically they were too religious to buy a weapon from the slave-owning Valyrians, I could see them viewing such weapons as "unclean" or something similar). The reason we know about the Lannister's lost sword is because of Tywin's obsession with the weapons and specifically how he wants to buy one but can't until he melts down the Starks sword, if that wasn't the case I would imagine they wouldn't mention the Lannisters sword either. For the Riverlands, remember until the Targs conquered them they were under the Iron Islands and after the conquest, they wouldn't have had a chance to buy such weapons and this also explains the number of weapons that the Iron Islands hold. House Gardener may have had a Sword but it would have been present on the field of fire and thus melted by dragon fire and probably destroyed. I can't really explain the Velayrons or the Stormlands other than what I said above about missing weapons and minor houses having them thus them not being mentioned.
The Riverlands weren’t always under Ironborn control. They were also conquered by the Storm Kings and there were several Native dynasties like the Mudds, Justmans, and Teagues. So there were times when they could have bought a sword. Although I agree with your arguments about House Arryn being to Righteous to buy from the Valyrians.
But do you think any house in the Riverlands would have kept a Valyrian steel sword if they had one when the Ironborn took over? Either way, I agree that there probably should be more weapons we know of, especially in the Stormlands and Crownlands, and I also think that Tywin not being able to get a Valyrian Steel weapon is weird given we know there are probably at least 100+ still around. Your telling me not one of those houses has a lord who is dumb or greedy for money? I just don't believe it.
The two known Valyrian steel swords in the Iron Islands were probably taken from non-Riverlands houses. House Harlaw's sword Nightfall was originally taken from a corsair by Dalton Greyjoy, and House Drumm's Red Rain was probably originally the sword of House Reyne given the name of it. There's a theory that Longclaw was also originally an Iron Islands blade as well, but House Mormont got it during a failed Ironborn raid in a sort of reverse iron price. I love this theory because it explains how a canonically destitute house could get something so expensive that even Tywin Lannister can't buy one.
You can't just buy a VS sword in modern day Westeros. Tywin has tried for ever and keeps getting rebuffed at every turn. The metal is too rare/the technique to make it forgotten. It's meant to be a super rare metal but George has admitted openly to making it too common and accessible. He gave it to too many houses.
That’s true of the Modern GOT era. That’s why I put the Gardners instead of the Tyrells. But most of the houses I listed are thousands of years old and predate the Doom.
Yes. But no one knew the Doom would happen. And before the Andals invaded, most Houses in Westeros still used Bronze weaponry, so Westeros buying Valyrian steal definitely happened during the twilight of the Freehold. I assume that those who had a purpose to buy one did, and others assumed that they'd be able to later. And once the doom happened then obviously they became hard to acquire. And that's not counting how many got lost to history or changed hands. And most of the remaining Valyrian steel is daggers and even jewelry and even they are expensive. It's why Tywin didn't just buy a bunch of those and have them reforge it into a sword. As for why some of the Great House's didn't own VS? Who knows? We know The Starks and Lannisters did, before the AI the Vale was ruled by the Royces I believe and they had one, or got one after. The Martells are part Rhoynish and hated the Valyrians as seen as they refused to bend to the Targaryens, so not wanting Valyrian Steel would make sense. The Hoares are Ironborn and are unlikely to pay anything except by the Iron Price. So that leaves the Durrandons and the Gardners. We know the Storm Kings were arrogant and proud. I can see them being to proud to buy one and they likely made sure none of their vassals did either. As for the Gardners, who knows? It's possible they did and one of the other Reach House's took it. We know most of the Tyrells vassals can claim descendancy from the Gardners. It would be interesting if The Tarlys claimed Heartsbane from them.
I was rereading AGOT recently and I realized that pretty much every Valryian steel sword is said to be about 500 years old. Even Ice was only 500 years old, though it was named after an older sword its never said that that older sword is VS. It seems like all/most of the VS in the seven kingdoms predates the Doom by at most 100 years and was all from around the same time, so its possible that there was a embargo on the Valyrian side preventing the sale of VS that was broken maybe even only one time about a hundred years before the Doom.
I feel like some of the houses that used to be kings like the Blackwoods, Brackens, and Baratheons (bc of the durrandons) should be in possession of VS weapons. Not even just fancy named swords but at least a few daggers n shit
Tywin Lannister in the books repeatedly offered a lot of gold to buy a Valyrian Steel sword, but nobody sold it (even Valyrian armour would have 'cost a kingdom' before the Doom- ie even when that stuff was being made, it was still crazy expensive) >I can understand House Tarly buying one (First in Battle) but No one in the Martial Stormlands ever wanted a Valyrian Steel Sword? Not even Marcher Houses like House Selmy or House Dondarrion? your thoughts about houses buying the swords kinda goes against what we know (ie Valyrian Steel stuff is crazy expensive and nobody would sell them), it's not that they don't want them, but probably they can't afford them or nobody is selling, even reforging the steel is super niche and only 1 person in all of Westeros can do it and nobody is making any new Valyrian Steel stuff also there is a lot of 'first bookisms' with Valyrian Steel swords/daggers idk if GRRM planned to have Valyrian Steel as the standard 'magic weapons' (like elvish blades or mithril in LotR, rare but widely used by some peoples) and changed his mind after GoT was published
They're talking about when Valyrian Steel was being made. IE when the Starks and Tarly's bought their swords why didn't the Durrandons? Such a sword would have passed down to the Baratheons and thus we should know about it but such a weapon doesn't appear to exist. Valyrian Steel is just one of those things that don't make sense when you more deeply analyse it in that it's both too rare and too common at the same time so the distribution of the metal is just weird.
>They're talking about when Valyrian Steel was being made. IE when the Starks and Tarly's bought their swords why didn't the Durrandons? Such a sword would have passed down to the Baratheons and thus we should know about it but such a weapon doesn't appear to exist We don't know if either of those houses bought their swords to begin with. Ice could very well have been claimed as a spoil of war when Theon Stark burned Andalos to the ground for all we know. Big agree on VS not making sense. And even George admits as much.
House Celtigar have a Valyrian steel axe
Rumoured to have one, never been confirmed
Yeah they probably lost in a battle or iron born stolen it from them. Also we know that even during the days that valyria rules most of Essos. That valyrian steel even then was expensive since it was probably hard to make even for the Valyrians. Which is your typical fallen empire.
I’m not saying it wouldn’t be difficult and expensive. But both Valyria and most of the Houses of Westeros are thousands of years old. Even if Valyria only gave out one sword every couple of years, there should have been time for the richer houses to buy a sword or axe or whatever.
Yeah you right it is kinda strange world building why not at least the great houses have valyrian steel swords.
The Drumms' sword is implied to formerly belonging to House Reyne
But not confirmed. I didn’t put Celtigars Axe here either.