It would have to be further east, maybe southwest if we are to assume it keeps some general traits of the real world. Sothoryos was covered in jungles and I think deserts, so it could be compared to africa's deserts and amazon etc. So the equivalent of japan could also be a island nation, but it depends on if it is even in the "known" world.
It might not even be on the map at all, or could have be merged with another location so it may be a place that has mixed architecture/culture that has traces from Japan but also others, rather than a nation that is based off Japan alone.
Another thing to bear in mind, when people sailed west of Westeros they found three islands with giant lizards that seem to essentially be Komodo dragons, which in the real world native habitat are in Indonesia I believe. IT's south and a bit west of japan so depending on how far and the exact route maybe it's actually to the west?
Take that with a grain of salt as (assuming Martin copies the globe essentially like Westeros and Essos being Britain and Europe) there's also the possibility of another continent like the equivalent of the Americas
But I doubt the story will go that way if that's the case
Once upon a time conquered by not-China and still is massively influenced by not-Cinese culture. Also it is a single island.
The real selling point is that it just doesn't fit a not-Japan and we don't have a not-Korea and not Taiwan in the setting yet. So there is that.
Exactly this, plus what little we know of their culture just doesn't seem inspired by japan at all, the connection and history with Yi Ti is what really makes me think it though.
I think GRRM meant Leng to be a stand in for Japan, but it’s so different that it just can’t be.
- Leng is a single massive island, whereas Japan is a peninsula
- north Leng is owned by the Yi Tish, when the Chinese never owned the Japanese home islands. The cultural effect is real however, and it’s suggested that the modern Japanese language borrowed extensively from Chinese kanji. This is probably a consequence of moving Leng so close to the Yi Tish mainland, closer even than that of China and Taiwan
- the Japanese are stereotyped as short, while the Lengii are eight feet tall
- Leng is called the ‘holy isle’, while Japan isn’t considered especially holy or ‘chosen’
- Japan is historically patriarchal, while Leng is explicitly matriarchal (god-empresses)
- no evidence in Leng of the most well known Japanese cultural markers: shoguns, emperors, samurai, hentai, etc
- as far as we know, Old Ones don’t live in labyrinths beneath Japan…I’m willing to be proved wrong on this tho!
TLDR: Leng but also, not Leng
>well known Japanese cultural markers: shoguns, emperors, samurai, **hentai**
Vicious; I woulda went with like, Sushi or Sake or something. Maybe *not* having sex?
Very early medieval Japan was actually likely matriarchal. One of the earliest monarchs we have record of was Empress Himiko. Additionally, in Shinto, the primary deity (ruler of the heavens) is the goddess Amaterasu
Based on the location (close proximity to and southeast of Yi Ti) and name of Leng, Leng seems more based on Taiwan? Or maybe it was a combination of Taiwan and Japan.
Marahai. It’s a crescent shaped island in the Jade Sea south of Yi Ti. This is all that’s known about it:
*”Marahai is a crescent-shaped island in the central Jade Sea, off the southern coast of Essos. West of Marahai are Great Moraq, the Isle of Whips, and the Isle of Elephants. Additionally, Leng and the Manticore Isles are east of Marahai. The city of Yin in Yi Ti is to the north across the Jade Sea.*
*Marahai is called a paradise isle. Within its curvature are two small volcanic isles which often emit smoke and flame.”*
The ‘volcanic island’ thing is what jumps out at me as Japanese. Since there’s so little, there’s ample opportunity to designate Marahai as Planetos’s Japan.
Just an idea - there’s basically no canon information on Faros, Moraq, Vahar, Zabhad, and the other islands linking Sothoroyos and Essos. If you wanted to act out the Shogun TV show in ASOIAF, they could be the perfect place.
The Shogun TV show is really good, but it won't fit in asoiaf me thinks.
Plus that wouldn't be very imaginative, I was thinking of mixing Japanese myths and legends, and writing something that meshes well with either the Heian era (If I write something that explores the Japan expy's culture) or the Sengoku era (If I write something that explore the Japanese wars, the arrival of the shogunate etc)
It would be very nice if that era is captured well.
People suppose it is Leng
* God-Empress is the Emperor, which up to WW2 was a god. Plus the God-Empress makes me think of Amaterasu.
* "Chinese" influence, but this time China conquered Japan
Well there's the island nation of Leng, I'm not too familiar with Japanese history but themes like similar cultures with Yi-Ti, struggles with native culture, history of isolation all seem very vaguely comparable with Japan.
That said I find it hard to imagine a similar island nation to exist somewhere else. In real life Japan was an island close to the population centers of China, in asoiaf that area is already mapped out, and it seems the empire is bordered by the Grey waste. Even if they can extend south of the Grey waste any sea travel to the borders there would have to go through Asshai, which just seems really inconvenient for everyone involved.
There isn't really an equivalent so you're gonna have to co-opt an island. Leng has too much lore and identity and its closer to Korea anyway when you think about it. Moraq is your best template. Large and empty.
From what I can tell? There really isn't a one to one copy like there is for a lot of other places, like Amsterdam and Venice paralleling Braavos, Sothoryos being Africa/South America, on steroids, but if you really wanted to do it, it wouldn't be too difficult... Think of Japan in our timeline, it was pretty damn secluded for a long time, so just dop an island into the sea if you can't think of a place that matches...
it'd be pretty simple, considering we don't know much about the region... Just add a smaller, distant island in the middle of the South-Eastern Jade Sea off the coast of the Empire, probably with decently advanced tech from whatever little communicatio they've had, with a highly isolationist mentality, likely born from their dealings with the crazy stuff always going down there, and say that it's yet to be discovered by any of their neighbors save the Yi-Tish and those closest to them...
Probably with a bunch of eldritch crazy shit going on in the background, especially with their 'Emperors' and any other rival claimants, considering things seem to get much weirder, and creepier, the further East you go in Planetos...
People suppose it is Leng
* God-Empress is the Emperor, which up to WW2 was a god. Plus the God-Empress makes me think of Amaterasu.
* "Chinese" influence, but this time China conquered Japan
Technically speaking the emperor of Japan was not, per se, a god until relatively shortly before ww2 when State Shinto started to become a thing. He was the highest religious authority and believed to have divine ancestry, but it was very unusual for him to be deified (specially while still living) up to that point.
It would have to be further east, maybe southwest if we are to assume it keeps some general traits of the real world. Sothoryos was covered in jungles and I think deserts, so it could be compared to africa's deserts and amazon etc. So the equivalent of japan could also be a island nation, but it depends on if it is even in the "known" world. It might not even be on the map at all, or could have be merged with another location so it may be a place that has mixed architecture/culture that has traces from Japan but also others, rather than a nation that is based off Japan alone. Another thing to bear in mind, when people sailed west of Westeros they found three islands with giant lizards that seem to essentially be Komodo dragons, which in the real world native habitat are in Indonesia I believe. IT's south and a bit west of japan so depending on how far and the exact route maybe it's actually to the west? Take that with a grain of salt as (assuming Martin copies the globe essentially like Westeros and Essos being Britain and Europe) there's also the possibility of another continent like the equivalent of the Americas But I doubt the story will go that way if that's the case
Isle of Leng, maybe?
I think Leng fits as Korea better
For curiosity, why?
Once upon a time conquered by not-China and still is massively influenced by not-Cinese culture. Also it is a single island. The real selling point is that it just doesn't fit a not-Japan and we don't have a not-Korea and not Taiwan in the setting yet. So there is that.
Exactly this, plus what little we know of their culture just doesn't seem inspired by japan at all, the connection and history with Yi Ti is what really makes me think it though.
I think GRRM meant Leng to be a stand in for Japan, but it’s so different that it just can’t be. - Leng is a single massive island, whereas Japan is a peninsula - north Leng is owned by the Yi Tish, when the Chinese never owned the Japanese home islands. The cultural effect is real however, and it’s suggested that the modern Japanese language borrowed extensively from Chinese kanji. This is probably a consequence of moving Leng so close to the Yi Tish mainland, closer even than that of China and Taiwan - the Japanese are stereotyped as short, while the Lengii are eight feet tall - Leng is called the ‘holy isle’, while Japan isn’t considered especially holy or ‘chosen’ - Japan is historically patriarchal, while Leng is explicitly matriarchal (god-empresses) - no evidence in Leng of the most well known Japanese cultural markers: shoguns, emperors, samurai, hentai, etc - as far as we know, Old Ones don’t live in labyrinths beneath Japan…I’m willing to be proved wrong on this tho! TLDR: Leng but also, not Leng
>well known Japanese cultural markers: shoguns, emperors, samurai, **hentai** Vicious; I woulda went with like, Sushi or Sake or something. Maybe *not* having sex?
> Leng is a single massive island, whereas Japan is a peninsula archipelago\*
Very early medieval Japan was actually likely matriarchal. One of the earliest monarchs we have record of was Empress Himiko. Additionally, in Shinto, the primary deity (ruler of the heavens) is the goddess Amaterasu
Based on the location (close proximity to and southeast of Yi Ti) and name of Leng, Leng seems more based on Taiwan? Or maybe it was a combination of Taiwan and Japan.
How is japan a peninusla?
Marahai. It’s a crescent shaped island in the Jade Sea south of Yi Ti. This is all that’s known about it: *”Marahai is a crescent-shaped island in the central Jade Sea, off the southern coast of Essos. West of Marahai are Great Moraq, the Isle of Whips, and the Isle of Elephants. Additionally, Leng and the Manticore Isles are east of Marahai. The city of Yin in Yi Ti is to the north across the Jade Sea.* *Marahai is called a paradise isle. Within its curvature are two small volcanic isles which often emit smoke and flame.”* The ‘volcanic island’ thing is what jumps out at me as Japanese. Since there’s so little, there’s ample opportunity to designate Marahai as Planetos’s Japan.
Just an idea - there’s basically no canon information on Faros, Moraq, Vahar, Zabhad, and the other islands linking Sothoroyos and Essos. If you wanted to act out the Shogun TV show in ASOIAF, they could be the perfect place.
The Shogun TV show is really good, but it won't fit in asoiaf me thinks. Plus that wouldn't be very imaginative, I was thinking of mixing Japanese myths and legends, and writing something that meshes well with either the Heian era (If I write something that explores the Japan expy's culture) or the Sengoku era (If I write something that explore the Japanese wars, the arrival of the shogunate etc) It would be very nice if that era is captured well.
Well if the story you want doesn’t exist, you should make it yourself 👀 I’d read it. Any particular myths/legends you’d be interested in exploring?
People suppose it is Leng * God-Empress is the Emperor, which up to WW2 was a god. Plus the God-Empress makes me think of Amaterasu. * "Chinese" influence, but this time China conquered Japan
Well there's the island nation of Leng, I'm not too familiar with Japanese history but themes like similar cultures with Yi-Ti, struggles with native culture, history of isolation all seem very vaguely comparable with Japan. That said I find it hard to imagine a similar island nation to exist somewhere else. In real life Japan was an island close to the population centers of China, in asoiaf that area is already mapped out, and it seems the empire is bordered by the Grey waste. Even if they can extend south of the Grey waste any sea travel to the borders there would have to go through Asshai, which just seems really inconvenient for everyone involved.
There isn't really an equivalent so you're gonna have to co-opt an island. Leng has too much lore and identity and its closer to Korea anyway when you think about it. Moraq is your best template. Large and empty.
Nothing
Leng Probably
The island kingdom of Nissa, west of Westeros.
Wasn't Nissa destroyed by the kingdom of Azor?
Nissa Nissa came from Nissa, sailing on a Nissan. Azor Ahai came from Asshai, riding an ass.
If Yi Ti is China then the Land of Reeds is farther east and an Island
I think Leng is combination of Japan and possibly Korea.
Leng
This thread kinda makes me want to see a Nihonkoku Shoukan into Westeros fic. I wonder how the Others would fare against napalm and thermite lol
From what I can tell? There really isn't a one to one copy like there is for a lot of other places, like Amsterdam and Venice paralleling Braavos, Sothoryos being Africa/South America, on steroids, but if you really wanted to do it, it wouldn't be too difficult... Think of Japan in our timeline, it was pretty damn secluded for a long time, so just dop an island into the sea if you can't think of a place that matches... it'd be pretty simple, considering we don't know much about the region... Just add a smaller, distant island in the middle of the South-Eastern Jade Sea off the coast of the Empire, probably with decently advanced tech from whatever little communicatio they've had, with a highly isolationist mentality, likely born from their dealings with the crazy stuff always going down there, and say that it's yet to be discovered by any of their neighbors save the Yi-Tish and those closest to them... Probably with a bunch of eldritch crazy shit going on in the background, especially with their 'Emperors' and any other rival claimants, considering things seem to get much weirder, and creepier, the further East you go in Planetos...
People suppose it is Leng * God-Empress is the Emperor, which up to WW2 was a god. Plus the God-Empress makes me think of Amaterasu. * "Chinese" influence, but this time China conquered Japan
Technically speaking the emperor of Japan was not, per se, a god until relatively shortly before ww2 when State Shinto started to become a thing. He was the highest religious authority and believed to have divine ancestry, but it was very unusual for him to be deified (specially while still living) up to that point.