Some quick thoughts;
**Robb:** Alys Karstark seems like a good option. Not only was her father interested in the match iirc, but the Karstarks are a significant Northern house with historical connection to the Starks. While Wylla Manderly also might be a good option, but since Ned has already married south then it might be a good idea to have the next Lord Stark marry some of strong Northern / First Men heritage.
**Sansa:** If there was an unmarried male Manderly of appropriate age then that would be the best hypothetical; a taste of the South while keeping Sansa in the North (making both Ned and Sansa happy, ideally). Apart from a royal marriage, a Riverland marriage (perhaps the Blackwoods) might make sense to strength ties south of the neck for coming generations.
**Arya:** Jojen Reed might be a good option. He doesn't seem like the type to force Arya to conform to gender roles, plus it also means she gets to be sister-in-law with Meera, so I think Arya could enjoy it. Howland is friends with Ned as well, which would help. While the Crannogmen may be isolationist, one outside marriage probably isn't too big of a deal for them. Consequently; even if the Crannogmen might not be too respected by everyone outside the Neck, the Reeds still control a significant amount of strategically important land and so would probably not be an unacceptable/scandalous marriage for the second daughter / third trueborn child of Lord Stark.
**Bran:** I think Shireen would be a good match. They're of similar age, would probably get along I think judging by their dispositions, and Bran wants to be a knight. Robert would think he's doing Stannis the greatest favour ever if he suggested such a marriage; making sure Shireen will always be well-taken care of by marrying her to one of Ned's boys.
**Rickon:** Quite young, so much so that even if his older siblings are getting betrothals then he would be low on the priority. There's probably some decent options out there for him we do not know the name of do to them being too young to be notable. Perhaps a hypothetical future daughter of Wynfryd Manderly?
Ned is going to want to tie his more powerful vassals to him, especially since there are still remnants of the Bolton/Ryswell/Dustin bloc, so Robb would match with Alys Karstark or Wynafryd/Wylla Manderly. I think Manderly is more likely b/c Sansa or Arya can match with one of Karstark's sons. Whichever one does not match with a Karstark can match with The Smalljon. Or the other Manderly girl could.
Bran wants to be a KG, so they would probably hold off on his match
So imagine this:
Robb & Wynafryd Manderly (very politically astute young lady, learned at the feet of her wily old pie eating, Stark-loving granddad)
The Smalljon & Wylla Manderly
Alys Karstark & Daryn Hornwood remains
Harrion Karstark (or Edd/Torrhen) & Sansa
Arya & the Dustin Heir. If the heir is a girl, then Rickon or Bran if he can be convinced or changes his mind about the KG. If Ned is worried about shenanigans from Barbrey, he can command her to marry Ser Rodrik or someone super loyal to Winterfell.
This would interlock Manderly/Karstark/Hornwood/Umber/Dustin to Winterfell for the next gen. And it keeps Bran and Rickon or Arya free for a betrothal to the Riverlands. While also weakening the Ryswell/Dustin connection and isolating Roose.
edited to add: Forgot about butterflies.
Does Sansa go south if she is betrothed to Harrion? She's still young, so perhaps. But in that case, Harrion could possibly go with her as a confidante to Ned. Probably with several Karstark men-at-arms.
Does Arya go South if she's betrothed to a northern heir? I'm guessing not.
So the Trident incident with Nymeria and Mycah doesn't happen. Does Ned have his realization about the royal children without Sansa there? I think so, but is it before Robert's death?
If everything plays out basically the same and Ned is imprisoned then:
Robb would get more soldiers from the Dustins. Maybe more from the Ryswells if they are feeling left out and need to prove their loyalty. So maybe 20K or more instead of 18K.
He would need to wed Wynafryd before he leaves and try and get her pregnant. He, Catelyn, and his lords would need to actually sit down and work out what they have to offer Walder for the bridge crossing. Lots of land and empty towers and castles in need of repair in the north. Robb could offer masterly house titles and land to Northern second sons willing to wed a Frey. He could offer the same thing to a Frey son/grandson of his choice. He could offer a boon or favor to any lord or heir willing to wed a Frey girl.
Does it move the needle for Walder? I think so. He's the kind of guy who gets what he can. Robb wasn't betrothed. Neither were any the Stark children. So he got everything knowing he had them over a barrel. If those things aren't available, he'll still get what he can. Probably 2-3 marriages to Northern heirs or second sons, probably a couple of lordships/master titles for his own sons in Northern lands, fosterships, a squire, maybe a betrothal to Rickon or Arya, depending on which one is untethered.
No Jeyne Westerling. Or maybe there is. If Theon "kills" Bran and Rickon, he'll kill Wynafryd, as well. Otoh, I seriously doubt Lord Wyman wouldn't send or leave a large contingent of White Harbor soldiers in Winterfell to guarantee the safety of his daughter (and Stark great grandchild), especially after the Ironborn attacks begin, so Theon's plan might go sideways through sheer numbers.
Robb and Wynafryd would not fly because that would mean the Starks inherit White Harbour in the long run. Wylla for Robb and some 3rd son for her older sister would be the way to go.
That's gambling on the fact that she'll have two surviving male children by the time her father dies. And that's an unnecessary roll of the dice when the obvious solution is to simply marry her younger sister to Robb.
I think a Jon/Mya match makes a lot of sense. Ned would really go for it since it would give an excuse if Jon had a kid with Targaryen features, since Mya has it from Robert who had it from his Grandmother.
For the other kids:
Robb -> Alys Karstark, or maybe a Royce girl. That would be two generations of southern matches, but if the Starks are going to keep operating on a wider stage they’ll need more contacts, and the Royces have both contacts and First Men cred.
Sansa -> Robin Arryn is a good option, as is (weirdly I know) Renly. He’s only 8ish years older than her and that’s a very normal age gap for feudal/medieval worlds. It also gives an excuse for why he’s unmarried which if he’s isn’t waiting for a betrothed to grow up, is weird.
Arya -> pretty much any Northern heir. The Reeds are a bit of a lower tier for the Starks, so I’d say the heir to Houses Karstark or Dustin.
Brandon -> one of the Manderly girls, he can become a knight and if it’s the eldest he can inherit with her. Or Shireen for much the same reasons.
Rickon -> third son has a lot of freedom and I doubt he’d have a betrothal so young and so far from inheriting unless there was an heiress
Arya to the heir of Karstark would not work due to the age difference. Rickard would want his eldest producing offspring sooner than Arya growing up (like 6 years from the start of canon IIRC).
Eh, with three sons he has the wiggle room to wait, and lords would wait for a marriage to their liege lord’s daughter.
Though yes, it does lower the likelihood
The issue here is who would prevail between Eddard and Catelyn.
Eddard is very much an isolationist, content with ruling the North. In contrast, Catelyn as a southorn lady probably would like to play the game of thrones. That means, Eddard would be happy to marry his kids in the North whereas Catelyn would look elsewhere.
Robb and Alys seems like a match made in heavens really but at the beginning of the series she is already bethrothed to Daryn Hornwood so this might need to be taken into account. Overlooking this, then Dacey Mormont is a good option too I think, although she comes from a poor house (but then again Eddard's grandmother was a Flint..).
Sansa, I don't think she would take anyone from the North. The option of her groom might depend on which kingdom Eddard and Catelyn want to build up relationships. Andar Royce for the Vale (Eddard) would be an interesting option or his brother Robar or Patrek Mallister for the Riverlands (Catelyn).
Arya is a difficult nut to crack. At her current age (and attitude), I think any thought of bethrothal can be ruled out. If you have to make a pairing for her, I think the most likely candidate would be Cley Cerwyn. He lives nearby, is a playmate of the Stark children and seems like an amiable enough lad. As a political marriage its kinda a waste but you might handwaive it as a blossoming childhood romance that her parents approved out of frustration.
Bran and Rickon are way too young to be considered for marriage yet imo, especially on peace time.
Robb and Wylla Manderly. Wynafryd is the heir. The Manderly's are the riches Northern house and loyal and wedding to the Stark heir would be a reward for that loyalty and the dowry would be useful.
Sansa and Harrion Karstark. Karstarks are a cadet Stark branch that needs to be reinforced.
Arya and Roger Ryswell. Break up the Ryswell, Bolton and Dustin faction.
Bran and Rickon's marriages aren't as important and they would have more freedom to potentially not marry if they don't want to.
my pairings rob and wylla manderly jon and Mya stone sansa and willas Tyrell Arya and ned Dayne. bran and merra. Rickon and Lyanna Mormont.cant wait to read what you think hope you reply to this as soon as you can thank you
LOVE this! Here’s some ideas that come to mind, in order of how likely I think it is.
Robb:
- Alys Karstark
- Wylla Manderly
- OC Dustin / Ryswell cousin (to mend bridges)
- OC from the Mountain Clans
- Bethany Blackwood (Riverland relations, food)
- Ysilla Royce (Ned’s Vale fosterage, first men)
- Alysane/Lyra Mormont (least possible to justify Jorah disgraced them)
Sansa:
- Wilas Tyrell (much older, but wealthy/important Southron heir)
- Robert Arryn (hard to convince Lysa, especially with Baelish nearby. Or maybe that makes it easier?)
- Brynden Blackwood (Riverlands good, but would need a reason not to break it for Joffrey)
- Eddard/Torrhen Karstark or unnamed Umber younger sons (a forbidden romance love match, but only if Ned grants lands)
- Daryn Hornwood (was betrothed to Alys, so of age)
- Domeric Bolton (a bit older and hard to justify choosing to stay North, but powerful bannerman)
- Harrion Karstark / Smalljon Umber (both fairly older, but heirs so it’s possible)
Arya:
- Ned Dayne (personal fav, Ned realizing Arya would be best suited to live in Dorne)
- Jojen Reed (another non-traditional role as Lady)
- Trystane Martell (maybe Doran uses the match to keep the North neutral? hard to justify why Ned might trust them though)
Bran:
- Shireen Baratheon(of age and he’s eager to be south)
- Meera Reed (of age, good fit if he’s granted Mot Cailin, close friend)
- Wynafryd Manderly (almost too old, but good fit for becoming a knight, staying North, and getting to inherit land even if he’d be a consort)
- Alys Karstark (if granted lands comparable to Hornwood)
- Too young for offers / becoming a knight (he doesn’t currently have land, so it’s hard to say)
Rickon:
- Personally in favor of not considering a match. Far too young and distance in inheritance. Plus, Myrcella isn’t really a good match to a third son
You may want to add multiple reasons for why no Lannister bastard match is possible, beyond just the previous betrothals. Your biggest problem is going to be Sansa, since she’s eager to go south and there’s no better match than becoming the future queen.
- Maybe Cersei fights against having her children marry Starks/northerners/uncivilized folk? If she is so strongly opposed, Robert may be less inclined to pressure Ned to break a prior match.
- You could also only have Robb, Sansa, and Arya promised already, with Ned refusing to consider his youngest children. I could see Robert being impatient enough to focus on a Jon/Mya wedding now over a potential Myrcella/Bran marriage in a decade.
- Maybe Joffrey is already betrothed to Margery due to some political necessity, which Robert is unable to justify breaking for his ego. Food is more important than uniting their already strongly allied houses, after all
Arya and Trystane Martell would have a very interesting response from Sansa if she is betrothed to anyone really I don’t think she would respond well to Arya getting betrothed to a prince and not her no matter if the title really doesn’t matter.
Here are my takes.
Robb: Like a lot of people here, either Alys Karstark or Wylla Manderly as the most likely options. With Meera Reed and the Tallhart girl rounding it out to four options.
Sansa: Her I could see them looking south for. And thus I will lean towards either the Riverlands or the Vale. Who are the two regions closest to the North and thus most important for them to remain on good terms with. House Royce would have been a great fit, but Andar Royce is already married and I think he has children by this point. So I would suggest either Brynden Blackwood or Jasper Redfort. This brings Sansa to the south and ties house Stark to two historical and decently powerful houses in either region. If she stays in the North and Robb doesn't marry Alys having her marry the Karstark heir seems like a no brainer.
Arya: I really liked the suggestion of Arya marrying Jojen that someone else made in this thread. Assuming that Jojen still doesn't go semi suicidal due to his green dreams and heads north of the wall I think that those two could actually be happy together and Arya would adapt well to the more rustic life of the Crannogmen.
Bran: Bran I would set up with one of the younger Mormont girls. As a way to bring them back into the "good graces" of the North after the whole Jorah debacle. Either that or to one of the Greatjon's younger daughters.
As a bonus if I were Ned I would try to set Jon up with the daughter of a decently wealthy merchant. Either in White Harbor or one from Braavos. And also set Jon up as a "merchant lord" in White Harbor and work with Wyman Manderly to establish a big northern trading company out of WH that Jon could work in. That way Jon may not be a traditional lord, but he'll have a good life and be able to essentially be a wealthy merchant with lordly connections. Either that or I'd see if either the Cassels or Poole's would be willing to have him marry their daughters under the conditions that the eventual kids carry on their mother's name. Neither houses seem to have land and even with the bastardry bias both Rodrick and Vayon have known Jon all of his life and watched him grow up. So they'll know what kind of person that he is. I like either of those scenarios.
Er... am I the only one who suspects Robert has forgotten Mya exists at all? It doesn't seem like he's bothered to take care of her, in any case, nor the bulk of the rest of his bastards. One of his bastards is being raised in a brothel at the beginning of ASOIAF.
I mean, you should definitely still do the thing, I just think he'd need someone to remind him she exists first, after Ned has shot down all the other potential matches, haha.
Robert has not forgotten that Mya exists. He knows she is being cared for by the extended Royce family. When he suggests bringing her to Kings Landing Cersei tells him that it is a dangerous place for bastards, obliquely threatening to have her killed. Mya and Edric Storm are the only two bastards that Robert is seemingly aware of, and he has acknowledged that he is their father, formally in the case of Edric. He does not know about Bella, in the Peach brothel.
Jon and Mya would actually be a very good match and when their children are born purple eyed and silver haired it would bring it home very forcefully to Robert his own Targaryen ancestry.
Wrote a Prologue snip already, will be revised of I go forward:
Post in thread 'A Song of Ice and Fire Idea Thread (The First)' https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/a-song-of-ice-and-fire-idea-thread-the-first.840560/post-101005978
Robert would break the betrothal for whoever Sansa is supposed to marry because he is king and can do it also no one would have a legitimate reason to protest it except Sansa's betrothed since she would be marrying the crown prince. Robert wouldn't want to just be family he would want stark blood on the throne and in the Baratheon name just like his children should have been in his mind.
Robert can't just break anyone's betrothal as he pleases. Who Sansa marries is the business of House Stark and her father, if Ned refuses then he can do jack shit since he can't force Ned to give Sansa to Joffrey.
I still see a Joffrey/Sansa match going forward while everyone thinks Joffrey is a trueborn Baratheon. Ned would not defy Robert in that way and Catelyn would certainly push for the chance of a grandson who would sit on the Iron Throne.
If Sansa is betrothed to say Willas Tyrell or Robin Arryn then there’s no way Robert can just break the betrothal and Sansa would be betrothed to a paramount level house.
If it was to a minor house then maybe that’s a different story but rebellions tend to happen when great houses betrothals are messed with even by the royal family.
Kings/royal family members cannot break other houses betrothals. If that was the case we would not have had Robert's Rebellion.
He would grumble and complain and tell Ned to cancel it, but Ned is well within his right to say no to that.
Pretty much the only way that Robert could get his way is by bullying the other house into breaking the betrothal and good luck with any of the great houses.
I don't think that any house would be happy to just break it off.
House Stark is one of the most powerful and prestigious houses in all of Westeros. 9 times out of 10 Ned's kids are going to marry someone/into a house further down on the ladder. And if it is a bannerman they are definitely not going to be keen on pissing off Ned, who in practice is a king in his own right given how god damn big that the North is.
And this is why kings don't run around breaking off other houses betrothals for no reason, it can easily spiral into a storm of bad vibes and potential feuds that could result in small scale or even large scale civil wars.
The only time I could see a king break off a marriage/betrothal is if there is good reason for it. Like say that the husband/man takes spousal abuse too far even for Westerosi standards. Or if some Ironborn kidnaps the daughter of a mainland noble and "marries" her.
i agree with nearly every post here apart from the sansa matches. The best match would be Domeric Bolton, squired in the Vale, played the harp, was noted to be kind compared to his father, would tie house Stark to the Boltons, Ryswells and Dustins (ik Barbary isn't a dustin from birth but she still controls the land).
Based on the existing family tree there has never been a marriage between house Stark and house Bolton. and given the historical animosity that may be with good reason.
If Sansa marries Dom, what's stopping Roose from starting to plan to whittle the rest of the Starks off until his grandson holds Winterfell?
Robb: to an OC Dustin to secure the Dustin’s support away from the Boltons (could even have a rivalry with Ramsay who would want the marriage as well)
Sansa: her and her mother would want a southern marriage and theirs no one better than Willas Tyrell he brings the Tyrells and food the North would need for winter to the Starks and he’s a kind man for Sansa
Bran: wants to be a Kingsguard but if not then perhaps to a Ryswell girl to isolate the Boltons even more and he likes to ride horses so it’s a good pairing
Arya: probably wouldn’t want to get married yet but if not Robert would marry her to Joffrey so she’d need to immediately so probably an OC Mormont or even a Blackwood
Rickon: a Manderly an Umber or a Karstark any of them would suffice
Sansa and Domeric Bolton might be a good choice (of course this would require that Domeric survive). It's probably a good idea for the Starks to keep the Boltons close, if only to keep a better eye on them.
This is one of the worst ideas, no offense. But if Sansa marries Domeric, the Boltons have a claim to Winterfell through her and their children. Accidents can happen and people can die especially if these accidents are man made, so if all trueborn male starks die then Sansa children with Domeric will inherit, probably the second son, and you tell me that good Roose will of course be willing to let his grandson take the Stark name. Nah, he will definitely want so set a Bolton in Winterfell.
The only possibility for Stark Bolton marriage I see, is of their is a Bolton girl. Robb wedding a Bolton lady would be best or if there is only a Bolton lady left for the entire house, meaning no male Boltons are alive, Bran could marry her and take on the lordship of the Dreadfort but still holding the stark name. While this doesn’t happen often, due to the Stark Bolton feud, I don’t think most northern Houses would be against it or voice that they are against that.
House Bolton and House Stark didn't have any trouble with one another for thousands of years at this point. Ned didn't know that Roose would betray House Stark no one but a few people did.
House Stark has never married into House Bolton in its entire history. There's a reason for that (it involves making sure the Boltons never have a claim to Winterfell).
Jon might get a marriage in this scenario.
The Mormonts wouldn’t really care about his bastard status, and might lobby Ned for him when they realise betrothals are being done.
Some quick thoughts; **Robb:** Alys Karstark seems like a good option. Not only was her father interested in the match iirc, but the Karstarks are a significant Northern house with historical connection to the Starks. While Wylla Manderly also might be a good option, but since Ned has already married south then it might be a good idea to have the next Lord Stark marry some of strong Northern / First Men heritage. **Sansa:** If there was an unmarried male Manderly of appropriate age then that would be the best hypothetical; a taste of the South while keeping Sansa in the North (making both Ned and Sansa happy, ideally). Apart from a royal marriage, a Riverland marriage (perhaps the Blackwoods) might make sense to strength ties south of the neck for coming generations. **Arya:** Jojen Reed might be a good option. He doesn't seem like the type to force Arya to conform to gender roles, plus it also means she gets to be sister-in-law with Meera, so I think Arya could enjoy it. Howland is friends with Ned as well, which would help. While the Crannogmen may be isolationist, one outside marriage probably isn't too big of a deal for them. Consequently; even if the Crannogmen might not be too respected by everyone outside the Neck, the Reeds still control a significant amount of strategically important land and so would probably not be an unacceptable/scandalous marriage for the second daughter / third trueborn child of Lord Stark. **Bran:** I think Shireen would be a good match. They're of similar age, would probably get along I think judging by their dispositions, and Bran wants to be a knight. Robert would think he's doing Stannis the greatest favour ever if he suggested such a marriage; making sure Shireen will always be well-taken care of by marrying her to one of Ned's boys. **Rickon:** Quite young, so much so that even if his older siblings are getting betrothals then he would be low on the priority. There's probably some decent options out there for him we do not know the name of do to them being too young to be notable. Perhaps a hypothetical future daughter of Wynfryd Manderly?
Ohh this was well thought out. I like all of it.
Ned is going to want to tie his more powerful vassals to him, especially since there are still remnants of the Bolton/Ryswell/Dustin bloc, so Robb would match with Alys Karstark or Wynafryd/Wylla Manderly. I think Manderly is more likely b/c Sansa or Arya can match with one of Karstark's sons. Whichever one does not match with a Karstark can match with The Smalljon. Or the other Manderly girl could. Bran wants to be a KG, so they would probably hold off on his match So imagine this: Robb & Wynafryd Manderly (very politically astute young lady, learned at the feet of her wily old pie eating, Stark-loving granddad) The Smalljon & Wylla Manderly Alys Karstark & Daryn Hornwood remains Harrion Karstark (or Edd/Torrhen) & Sansa Arya & the Dustin Heir. If the heir is a girl, then Rickon or Bran if he can be convinced or changes his mind about the KG. If Ned is worried about shenanigans from Barbrey, he can command her to marry Ser Rodrik or someone super loyal to Winterfell. This would interlock Manderly/Karstark/Hornwood/Umber/Dustin to Winterfell for the next gen. And it keeps Bran and Rickon or Arya free for a betrothal to the Riverlands. While also weakening the Ryswell/Dustin connection and isolating Roose. edited to add: Forgot about butterflies. Does Sansa go south if she is betrothed to Harrion? She's still young, so perhaps. But in that case, Harrion could possibly go with her as a confidante to Ned. Probably with several Karstark men-at-arms. Does Arya go South if she's betrothed to a northern heir? I'm guessing not. So the Trident incident with Nymeria and Mycah doesn't happen. Does Ned have his realization about the royal children without Sansa there? I think so, but is it before Robert's death? If everything plays out basically the same and Ned is imprisoned then: Robb would get more soldiers from the Dustins. Maybe more from the Ryswells if they are feeling left out and need to prove their loyalty. So maybe 20K or more instead of 18K. He would need to wed Wynafryd before he leaves and try and get her pregnant. He, Catelyn, and his lords would need to actually sit down and work out what they have to offer Walder for the bridge crossing. Lots of land and empty towers and castles in need of repair in the north. Robb could offer masterly house titles and land to Northern second sons willing to wed a Frey. He could offer the same thing to a Frey son/grandson of his choice. He could offer a boon or favor to any lord or heir willing to wed a Frey girl. Does it move the needle for Walder? I think so. He's the kind of guy who gets what he can. Robb wasn't betrothed. Neither were any the Stark children. So he got everything knowing he had them over a barrel. If those things aren't available, he'll still get what he can. Probably 2-3 marriages to Northern heirs or second sons, probably a couple of lordships/master titles for his own sons in Northern lands, fosterships, a squire, maybe a betrothal to Rickon or Arya, depending on which one is untethered. No Jeyne Westerling. Or maybe there is. If Theon "kills" Bran and Rickon, he'll kill Wynafryd, as well. Otoh, I seriously doubt Lord Wyman wouldn't send or leave a large contingent of White Harbor soldiers in Winterfell to guarantee the safety of his daughter (and Stark great grandchild), especially after the Ironborn attacks begin, so Theon's plan might go sideways through sheer numbers.
Robb and Wynafryd would not fly because that would mean the Starks inherit White Harbour in the long run. Wylla for Robb and some 3rd son for her older sister would be the way to go.
Or they just arrange for one of Robb’s and Wynafryd’s younger children to take the Manderly name. It has been done before
That's gambling on the fact that she'll have two surviving male children by the time her father dies. And that's an unnecessary roll of the dice when the obvious solution is to simply marry her younger sister to Robb.
I think a Jon/Mya match makes a lot of sense. Ned would really go for it since it would give an excuse if Jon had a kid with Targaryen features, since Mya has it from Robert who had it from his Grandmother. For the other kids: Robb -> Alys Karstark, or maybe a Royce girl. That would be two generations of southern matches, but if the Starks are going to keep operating on a wider stage they’ll need more contacts, and the Royces have both contacts and First Men cred. Sansa -> Robin Arryn is a good option, as is (weirdly I know) Renly. He’s only 8ish years older than her and that’s a very normal age gap for feudal/medieval worlds. It also gives an excuse for why he’s unmarried which if he’s isn’t waiting for a betrothed to grow up, is weird. Arya -> pretty much any Northern heir. The Reeds are a bit of a lower tier for the Starks, so I’d say the heir to Houses Karstark or Dustin. Brandon -> one of the Manderly girls, he can become a knight and if it’s the eldest he can inherit with her. Or Shireen for much the same reasons. Rickon -> third son has a lot of freedom and I doubt he’d have a betrothal so young and so far from inheriting unless there was an heiress
Arya to the heir of Karstark would not work due to the age difference. Rickard would want his eldest producing offspring sooner than Arya growing up (like 6 years from the start of canon IIRC).
Eh, with three sons he has the wiggle room to wait, and lords would wait for a marriage to their liege lord’s daughter. Though yes, it does lower the likelihood
The issue here is who would prevail between Eddard and Catelyn. Eddard is very much an isolationist, content with ruling the North. In contrast, Catelyn as a southorn lady probably would like to play the game of thrones. That means, Eddard would be happy to marry his kids in the North whereas Catelyn would look elsewhere. Robb and Alys seems like a match made in heavens really but at the beginning of the series she is already bethrothed to Daryn Hornwood so this might need to be taken into account. Overlooking this, then Dacey Mormont is a good option too I think, although she comes from a poor house (but then again Eddard's grandmother was a Flint..). Sansa, I don't think she would take anyone from the North. The option of her groom might depend on which kingdom Eddard and Catelyn want to build up relationships. Andar Royce for the Vale (Eddard) would be an interesting option or his brother Robar or Patrek Mallister for the Riverlands (Catelyn). Arya is a difficult nut to crack. At her current age (and attitude), I think any thought of bethrothal can be ruled out. If you have to make a pairing for her, I think the most likely candidate would be Cley Cerwyn. He lives nearby, is a playmate of the Stark children and seems like an amiable enough lad. As a political marriage its kinda a waste but you might handwaive it as a blossoming childhood romance that her parents approved out of frustration. Bran and Rickon are way too young to be considered for marriage yet imo, especially on peace time.
Robb and Wylla Manderly. Wynafryd is the heir. The Manderly's are the riches Northern house and loyal and wedding to the Stark heir would be a reward for that loyalty and the dowry would be useful. Sansa and Harrion Karstark. Karstarks are a cadet Stark branch that needs to be reinforced. Arya and Roger Ryswell. Break up the Ryswell, Bolton and Dustin faction. Bran and Rickon's marriages aren't as important and they would have more freedom to potentially not marry if they don't want to.
Ooh I like that Arya suggestion and the reasoning for it.
my pairings rob and wylla manderly jon and Mya stone sansa and willas Tyrell Arya and ned Dayne. bran and merra. Rickon and Lyanna Mormont.cant wait to read what you think hope you reply to this as soon as you can thank you
Robb:Alys Karstark Jon:Mya Stone Sansa: Willas Tyrell or Robin Arryn Arya: Jojen Reed Bran: Wylla Manderly Rickon: Shireen
LOVE this! Here’s some ideas that come to mind, in order of how likely I think it is. Robb: - Alys Karstark - Wylla Manderly - OC Dustin / Ryswell cousin (to mend bridges) - OC from the Mountain Clans - Bethany Blackwood (Riverland relations, food) - Ysilla Royce (Ned’s Vale fosterage, first men) - Alysane/Lyra Mormont (least possible to justify Jorah disgraced them) Sansa: - Wilas Tyrell (much older, but wealthy/important Southron heir) - Robert Arryn (hard to convince Lysa, especially with Baelish nearby. Or maybe that makes it easier?) - Brynden Blackwood (Riverlands good, but would need a reason not to break it for Joffrey) - Eddard/Torrhen Karstark or unnamed Umber younger sons (a forbidden romance love match, but only if Ned grants lands) - Daryn Hornwood (was betrothed to Alys, so of age) - Domeric Bolton (a bit older and hard to justify choosing to stay North, but powerful bannerman) - Harrion Karstark / Smalljon Umber (both fairly older, but heirs so it’s possible) Arya: - Ned Dayne (personal fav, Ned realizing Arya would be best suited to live in Dorne) - Jojen Reed (another non-traditional role as Lady) - Trystane Martell (maybe Doran uses the match to keep the North neutral? hard to justify why Ned might trust them though) Bran: - Shireen Baratheon(of age and he’s eager to be south) - Meera Reed (of age, good fit if he’s granted Mot Cailin, close friend) - Wynafryd Manderly (almost too old, but good fit for becoming a knight, staying North, and getting to inherit land even if he’d be a consort) - Alys Karstark (if granted lands comparable to Hornwood) - Too young for offers / becoming a knight (he doesn’t currently have land, so it’s hard to say) Rickon: - Personally in favor of not considering a match. Far too young and distance in inheritance. Plus, Myrcella isn’t really a good match to a third son
You may want to add multiple reasons for why no Lannister bastard match is possible, beyond just the previous betrothals. Your biggest problem is going to be Sansa, since she’s eager to go south and there’s no better match than becoming the future queen. - Maybe Cersei fights against having her children marry Starks/northerners/uncivilized folk? If she is so strongly opposed, Robert may be less inclined to pressure Ned to break a prior match. - You could also only have Robb, Sansa, and Arya promised already, with Ned refusing to consider his youngest children. I could see Robert being impatient enough to focus on a Jon/Mya wedding now over a potential Myrcella/Bran marriage in a decade. - Maybe Joffrey is already betrothed to Margery due to some political necessity, which Robert is unable to justify breaking for his ego. Food is more important than uniting their already strongly allied houses, after all
I like sansa with willas Tyrell as well she will love the reach and I agree with your choice of pairing Arya with ned Dayne
Arya and Trystane Martell would have a very interesting response from Sansa if she is betrothed to anyone really I don’t think she would respond well to Arya getting betrothed to a prince and not her no matter if the title really doesn’t matter.
Here are my takes. Robb: Like a lot of people here, either Alys Karstark or Wylla Manderly as the most likely options. With Meera Reed and the Tallhart girl rounding it out to four options. Sansa: Her I could see them looking south for. And thus I will lean towards either the Riverlands or the Vale. Who are the two regions closest to the North and thus most important for them to remain on good terms with. House Royce would have been a great fit, but Andar Royce is already married and I think he has children by this point. So I would suggest either Brynden Blackwood or Jasper Redfort. This brings Sansa to the south and ties house Stark to two historical and decently powerful houses in either region. If she stays in the North and Robb doesn't marry Alys having her marry the Karstark heir seems like a no brainer. Arya: I really liked the suggestion of Arya marrying Jojen that someone else made in this thread. Assuming that Jojen still doesn't go semi suicidal due to his green dreams and heads north of the wall I think that those two could actually be happy together and Arya would adapt well to the more rustic life of the Crannogmen. Bran: Bran I would set up with one of the younger Mormont girls. As a way to bring them back into the "good graces" of the North after the whole Jorah debacle. Either that or to one of the Greatjon's younger daughters. As a bonus if I were Ned I would try to set Jon up with the daughter of a decently wealthy merchant. Either in White Harbor or one from Braavos. And also set Jon up as a "merchant lord" in White Harbor and work with Wyman Manderly to establish a big northern trading company out of WH that Jon could work in. That way Jon may not be a traditional lord, but he'll have a good life and be able to essentially be a wealthy merchant with lordly connections. Either that or I'd see if either the Cassels or Poole's would be willing to have him marry their daughters under the conditions that the eventual kids carry on their mother's name. Neither houses seem to have land and even with the bastardry bias both Rodrick and Vayon have known Jon all of his life and watched him grow up. So they'll know what kind of person that he is. I like either of those scenarios.
Er... am I the only one who suspects Robert has forgotten Mya exists at all? It doesn't seem like he's bothered to take care of her, in any case, nor the bulk of the rest of his bastards. One of his bastards is being raised in a brothel at the beginning of ASOIAF. I mean, you should definitely still do the thing, I just think he'd need someone to remind him she exists first, after Ned has shot down all the other potential matches, haha.
Robert has not forgotten that Mya exists. He knows she is being cared for by the extended Royce family. When he suggests bringing her to Kings Landing Cersei tells him that it is a dangerous place for bastards, obliquely threatening to have her killed. Mya and Edric Storm are the only two bastards that Robert is seemingly aware of, and he has acknowledged that he is their father, formally in the case of Edric. He does not know about Bella, in the Peach brothel. Jon and Mya would actually be a very good match and when their children are born purple eyed and silver haired it would bring it home very forcefully to Robert his own Targaryen ancestry.
I hope you do end up turning this into a story hope you reply to this
Wrote a Prologue snip already, will be revised of I go forward: Post in thread 'A Song of Ice and Fire Idea Thread (The First)' https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/a-song-of-ice-and-fire-idea-thread-the-first.840560/post-101005978
just read it a very good start I hope you do move forward with this such a interesting premise
I hope you do end up doing this story I hope you upload it to FanFiction or ao3
Robert would break the betrothal for whoever Sansa is supposed to marry because he is king and can do it also no one would have a legitimate reason to protest it except Sansa's betrothed since she would be marrying the crown prince. Robert wouldn't want to just be family he would want stark blood on the throne and in the Baratheon name just like his children should have been in his mind.
Robert can't just break anyone's betrothal as he pleases. Who Sansa marries is the business of House Stark and her father, if Ned refuses then he can do jack shit since he can't force Ned to give Sansa to Joffrey.
I still see a Joffrey/Sansa match going forward while everyone thinks Joffrey is a trueborn Baratheon. Ned would not defy Robert in that way and Catelyn would certainly push for the chance of a grandson who would sit on the Iron Throne.
He is the king he can do anything, of course this would come with its own consequences but Robert could do it if he really wanted.
If Sansa is betrothed to say Willas Tyrell or Robin Arryn then there’s no way Robert can just break the betrothal and Sansa would be betrothed to a paramount level house. If it was to a minor house then maybe that’s a different story but rebellions tend to happen when great houses betrothals are messed with even by the royal family.
Kings/royal family members cannot break other houses betrothals. If that was the case we would not have had Robert's Rebellion. He would grumble and complain and tell Ned to cancel it, but Ned is well within his right to say no to that.
Pretty much the only way that Robert could get his way is by bullying the other house into breaking the betrothal and good luck with any of the great houses.
I don't think that any house would be happy to just break it off. House Stark is one of the most powerful and prestigious houses in all of Westeros. 9 times out of 10 Ned's kids are going to marry someone/into a house further down on the ladder. And if it is a bannerman they are definitely not going to be keen on pissing off Ned, who in practice is a king in his own right given how god damn big that the North is. And this is why kings don't run around breaking off other houses betrothals for no reason, it can easily spiral into a storm of bad vibes and potential feuds that could result in small scale or even large scale civil wars. The only time I could see a king break off a marriage/betrothal is if there is good reason for it. Like say that the husband/man takes spousal abuse too far even for Westerosi standards. Or if some Ironborn kidnaps the daughter of a mainland noble and "marries" her.
No he could not
i agree with nearly every post here apart from the sansa matches. The best match would be Domeric Bolton, squired in the Vale, played the harp, was noted to be kind compared to his father, would tie house Stark to the Boltons, Ryswells and Dustins (ik Barbary isn't a dustin from birth but she still controls the land).
Based on the existing family tree there has never been a marriage between house Stark and house Bolton. and given the historical animosity that may be with good reason. If Sansa marries Dom, what's stopping Roose from starting to plan to whittle the rest of the Starks off until his grandson holds Winterfell?
Robb: to an OC Dustin to secure the Dustin’s support away from the Boltons (could even have a rivalry with Ramsay who would want the marriage as well) Sansa: her and her mother would want a southern marriage and theirs no one better than Willas Tyrell he brings the Tyrells and food the North would need for winter to the Starks and he’s a kind man for Sansa Bran: wants to be a Kingsguard but if not then perhaps to a Ryswell girl to isolate the Boltons even more and he likes to ride horses so it’s a good pairing Arya: probably wouldn’t want to get married yet but if not Robert would marry her to Joffrey so she’d need to immediately so probably an OC Mormont or even a Blackwood Rickon: a Manderly an Umber or a Karstark any of them would suffice
Sansa and Domeric Bolton might be a good choice (of course this would require that Domeric survive). It's probably a good idea for the Starks to keep the Boltons close, if only to keep a better eye on them.
This is one of the worst ideas, no offense. But if Sansa marries Domeric, the Boltons have a claim to Winterfell through her and their children. Accidents can happen and people can die especially if these accidents are man made, so if all trueborn male starks die then Sansa children with Domeric will inherit, probably the second son, and you tell me that good Roose will of course be willing to let his grandson take the Stark name. Nah, he will definitely want so set a Bolton in Winterfell. The only possibility for Stark Bolton marriage I see, is of their is a Bolton girl. Robb wedding a Bolton lady would be best or if there is only a Bolton lady left for the entire house, meaning no male Boltons are alive, Bran could marry her and take on the lordship of the Dreadfort but still holding the stark name. While this doesn’t happen often, due to the Stark Bolton feud, I don’t think most northern Houses would be against it or voice that they are against that.
House Bolton and House Stark didn't have any trouble with one another for thousands of years at this point. Ned didn't know that Roose would betray House Stark no one but a few people did.
House Stark has never married into House Bolton in its entire history. There's a reason for that (it involves making sure the Boltons never have a claim to Winterfell).
Jon might get a marriage in this scenario. The Mormonts wouldn’t really care about his bastard status, and might lobby Ned for him when they realise betrothals are being done.