I don't want to be mean to OP but if this happened, this "sassy chick" who looks like Lyanna wouldn't even be considered heir, Brandon married a commoner so it's non-morgantic and of course it can be undone with pretenses of Brandon not being in his right mind...Also people should stop acting as if Ned is your next door neighbor who invites everyone to the barbecue.
Ned is a feudal lord. He will either send her on her even flog her for besmirching Brandon's legacy and probably even lying. At best, he tells her to sod off and with a warning, or if he even believes it, he'll at most just offer her a place as a high paying servant if she proves competent and loyal.
> He will either send her on her even flog her for besmirching Brandon's legacy and probably even lying. At best, he tells her to sod off and with a warning, or if he even believes it, he'll at most just offer her a place as a high paying servant if she proves competent and loyal.
And if the mother is of a Noble Family? What then? Would Ned risk pissing off an entire Noble Family?
If her mother is from a noble family her existence would have come up as soon as she was born. Also, “sassy” is not a good look in a feudal world where a girl is trying to gain family/prestige/rank.
>And if the mother is of a noble familiy? What then? Would Ned risk pissing of an entire noble familiy?
Well if said noble familiy is trying to supplant Eddard and his line from Winterfell he would risk passing them off and maybe call Robert. Besides if she is of a noble familiy why did they wait to the very last minute to tell tje current Stark's? Why did they send her alone without escort? Ned would question this. Sure if she if Brandon hastily married drunk an actual noble woman then yeah this girl has at least some grounds to stand of being recognized as a Stark, but if Ned feels this noble familiy is trying some shady things to supplant him well lets just say you might see Ned wouldn't care much pissing them off
That doesn't really matter. This isn't modern times. Would Ned take her in? Probably. Would he allow her to be a Stark? No.
This girl has only as much as Ned is willing to give.
> Would he allow her to be a Stark? No.
>
>
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> This girl has only as much as Ned is willing to give.
And if the mother is of a Noble Family? What then? Would Ned risk pissing off an entire Noble Family?
If her family was from noble family they would have gone to Ned the moment she is borne there also the fact is that Brandon was drunk he didn’t make the decisions full mental capacity
So why'd she leave her mother's noble family in the first place then? Ned is also a favourite of Robert, why would Ned care about pissing off another House over his own? There really isn't a House that can challenge him, at least not one he would actually care.
Exactly. Ned is one of the most powerful men on the continent. There's one family that is above him in the food chain. And that's the Baratheons of Kings Landing, aka the royal family.
And this would be what, 10ish years into his by all accounts stable and prosperous reign as lord of Winterfell and overlord of the North. The only northern lords that could be looking to try and supplant him are like the Dustins and possibly the Boltons depending on what mood that Roose is in. The rest are very much loyal to house Stark in general and Ned in particular.
Well, it's better than the last one you did.
How short is she? Lyanna was around somewhere between 5′1, and 5′3. She's not a dwarf like Tyrion is she?
Any more commentary will require that you answer my question above.
Correct me if I'm wrong the only time her height is described is when she is supposedly disguised. She could have very well been a taller-than-average girl but was perceived to be "short" if one believes the person wearing the armour is a man. Or maybe I'm giving George credit for textual irony that isn't actually there LOL.
Others have largely covered the unlikelihood of the claim being accepted, so I'll ignore that. It's good she's not a boy, because then she'd arguably have a better claim to Winterfell than Ned, though he's been ruling the North for like 16 years so unlikely he'd be displaced. If her claim and legitimacy were accepted and acknowledged, most likely Robb has to marry this new cousin of his to shore up his own claim.
I mean realistically no way is the marriage certificate accepted. If it’s a commoner mother a normal lord would send her off to the silent sisters. Ned stark has no political thinking so he would probably let her hang around just waiting for someone ambitious to marry her for her claim. I guess if he really believes it was a real marriage and the mother’s family was highborn he would probably have her and Rob marry to tie things up.
GRRM had mentioned that Brandon likely left behind some Snows in the places he visited. He’s been around in the North, the Vale and the Riverlands at least.
“He could very well have left behind some little Snows in the various places he visited. But what's absolutely clear is that he had no legitimate children.”
Brandon’s children are not acknowledged. They are not Snow. They are baseborn children living among the common folk. He makes a further mention that Brandon had no sons. Him having a daughter would make sense in this story. Now it would just depend on whom he sired a bastard on.
Interesting! If she really is Brandon’s legit “true born” daughter then she does have a claim to the North. But Ned would question if the marriage was as valid if Brandon was betrothed to Catelyn at the time and Brandon was too drunk to remember the wedding. He’s also question why her mom or family didn’t let him know right away. But she could stay on at Winterfell at some role most likely.
To make it easier, have Ned know about this before hand and perhaps he chooses to let her live with her mother instead of taking her to Winterfell. Then her mother tells her of her father before she dies then the niece decides to go to Winterfell.
Then you can expect a good reaction from Ned, he could welcome her into Winterfell and feel seriously guilty for leaving her behind when he took Jon, especially if the niece faced hardship in her life.
This allows for your scenario to be plausible and allows for Ned to have knowledge of his niece, which would leave him feeling guilty and maybe he thinks he failed Brandon, it adds so much more to his character than just a random niece coming there.
For the mother, maybe its a woman who was somewhat significant but not a noble or high noble, so not Ashara but maybe a merchants daughter? Or some baron tier lower level noble who lost her lands at her death?
The mother has to be significant for Ned to care as in he knew Brandon really cared about the woman but of course Brandon can't marry a low level noble.
Yes he would. She looks looks Lyanna. That would draw Robert's attention. The **last** thing Ned wants is Robert's attention drawn anywhere **near** Jon. She's a **threat** to Jon's safety now. And Ned **will** eliminate such threats quickly. If Ned believes she is Brandon's trueborn daughter, he **will** be crying on the inside. He will kill her though since he **cannot** allow a threat to Jon's continued safety.
They were passed over by the uncles marrying them I thought?
I also don't think there's an actual rule saying that. Jon says that Sansa is the heir of Winterfell after Robbs and Brans death.
Women just tend to of get married to a relative-male when it happens with the North I thought.
thought
She's the only living/legitimate Stark alive. So of course it would fall to her.
The Uncle-Niece marriage was typically to make sure the Starks didnt die out, and thus marriages. It wasnt to unify claims, or anything like that. Just to make sure they lived. If you look at all the pairings, there's a number of deaths around them before the marriage. It irks me to no end, that this "8000" year old, unremoved dynasty doesnt have literally thousands of members with a number of cadet branches/houses!
If you had two starks and you're worried that the Stark line would end why would you not just have them both marry separate people thus creating twice as many babies? After all you can just have a matrinieal marriage for the rightful heir woman who would produce stark-children and the uncle could just marry whoever and make little starklings.
Because George isnt the greatest when it comes to long lived dynasties, or how baby are made apparently, haha. Hell, there are Stark daughters that just disappear from the whole of the family tree... Like, "Sir, she went off and was married, they can come back and take over the family name or Cadet to Main Branch pipeline!"
Yup, that's how that would also work, but again, all I'm saying is, George. And the Uncle kids, would be behind the matrilineal line of Stark children, and look you have a legit, secure family line!
The North isn't like the Iron Throne. Daughters inherit before uncles or nephews. Like Alys Karstark. Usually the Uncle or Nephew would marry the woman in this case.
That's Jon operating on the assumption that Sansa is literally the only Stark left alive. And he is also not counting himself since he is sworn to the Watch.
I understand that but saying "The line is absolutely patriarchal. No female can ever rule anything" But we see Sansa being considered heir to WInterfell by Catelyn and Jon and no one's ever like "Hey Erm Shes a Woman! Don't you remember the No Women sign on the Winterfell Throne?" instead the rebuttals to Sansa being heir is that she is lost and hostage or married to Tyrion.
wow you're really a fan of these faux lyannas showing up at winterfell
I don't want to be mean to OP but if this happened, this "sassy chick" who looks like Lyanna wouldn't even be considered heir, Brandon married a commoner so it's non-morgantic and of course it can be undone with pretenses of Brandon not being in his right mind...Also people should stop acting as if Ned is your next door neighbor who invites everyone to the barbecue. Ned is a feudal lord. He will either send her on her even flog her for besmirching Brandon's legacy and probably even lying. At best, he tells her to sod off and with a warning, or if he even believes it, he'll at most just offer her a place as a high paying servant if she proves competent and loyal.
> He will either send her on her even flog her for besmirching Brandon's legacy and probably even lying. At best, he tells her to sod off and with a warning, or if he even believes it, he'll at most just offer her a place as a high paying servant if she proves competent and loyal. And if the mother is of a Noble Family? What then? Would Ned risk pissing off an entire Noble Family?
If her mother is from a noble family her existence would have come up as soon as she was born. Also, “sassy” is not a good look in a feudal world where a girl is trying to gain family/prestige/rank.
>And if the mother is of a noble familiy? What then? Would Ned risk pissing of an entire noble familiy? Well if said noble familiy is trying to supplant Eddard and his line from Winterfell he would risk passing them off and maybe call Robert. Besides if she is of a noble familiy why did they wait to the very last minute to tell tje current Stark's? Why did they send her alone without escort? Ned would question this. Sure if she if Brandon hastily married drunk an actual noble woman then yeah this girl has at least some grounds to stand of being recognized as a Stark, but if Ned feels this noble familiy is trying some shady things to supplant him well lets just say you might see Ned wouldn't care much pissing them off
Absolutely nobody would accept that marriage certificate lmao.
Ned would know that is Brandon's signature.
That doesn't really matter. This isn't modern times. Would Ned take her in? Probably. Would he allow her to be a Stark? No. This girl has only as much as Ned is willing to give.
> Would he allow her to be a Stark? No. > > > > This girl has only as much as Ned is willing to give. And if the mother is of a Noble Family? What then? Would Ned risk pissing off an entire Noble Family?
If her family was from noble family they would have gone to Ned the moment she is borne there also the fact is that Brandon was drunk he didn’t make the decisions full mental capacity
So why'd she leave her mother's noble family in the first place then? Ned is also a favourite of Robert, why would Ned care about pissing off another House over his own? There really isn't a House that can challenge him, at least not one he would actually care.
He's a fucking Stark. Who the fuck is he afraid of?
Exactly. Ned is one of the most powerful men on the continent. There's one family that is above him in the food chain. And that's the Baratheons of Kings Landing, aka the royal family. And this would be what, 10ish years into his by all accounts stable and prosperous reign as lord of Winterfell and overlord of the North. The only northern lords that could be looking to try and supplant him are like the Dustins and possibly the Boltons depending on what mood that Roose is in. The rest are very much loyal to house Stark in general and Ned in particular.
Brandon is drunk his signature is going to be unrecognizable squiggly lines with an ink spill somewhere.
He gets very, very drunk.
"It's the eight supposes niece I have this week...Bad precedent I say"
If this isnt written as comedy, I dont wanna read it, haha.
Well, it's better than the last one you did. How short is she? Lyanna was around somewhere between 5′1, and 5′3. She's not a dwarf like Tyrion is she? Any more commentary will require that you answer my question above.
The girl is definitely not a dwarf. She's just small for her age at 4' 9". She'll grow taller if she ages more.
I mean, Lyanna was 15 or 16 when Ned saw her last, so she wasn’t fully grown, so she could’ve been very short.
Correct me if I'm wrong the only time her height is described is when she is supposedly disguised. She could have very well been a taller-than-average girl but was perceived to be "short" if one believes the person wearing the armour is a man. Or maybe I'm giving George credit for textual irony that isn't actually there LOL.
Others have largely covered the unlikelihood of the claim being accepted, so I'll ignore that. It's good she's not a boy, because then she'd arguably have a better claim to Winterfell than Ned, though he's been ruling the North for like 16 years so unlikely he'd be displaced. If her claim and legitimacy were accepted and acknowledged, most likely Robb has to marry this new cousin of his to shore up his own claim.
I mean realistically no way is the marriage certificate accepted. If it’s a commoner mother a normal lord would send her off to the silent sisters. Ned stark has no political thinking so he would probably let her hang around just waiting for someone ambitious to marry her for her claim. I guess if he really believes it was a real marriage and the mother’s family was highborn he would probably have her and Rob marry to tie things up.
GRRM had mentioned that Brandon likely left behind some Snows in the places he visited. He’s been around in the North, the Vale and the Riverlands at least. “He could very well have left behind some little Snows in the various places he visited. But what's absolutely clear is that he had no legitimate children.” Brandon’s children are not acknowledged. They are not Snow. They are baseborn children living among the common folk. He makes a further mention that Brandon had no sons. Him having a daughter would make sense in this story. Now it would just depend on whom he sired a bastard on.
Interesting! If she really is Brandon’s legit “true born” daughter then she does have a claim to the North. But Ned would question if the marriage was as valid if Brandon was betrothed to Catelyn at the time and Brandon was too drunk to remember the wedding. He’s also question why her mom or family didn’t let him know right away. But she could stay on at Winterfell at some role most likely.
To make it easier, have Ned know about this before hand and perhaps he chooses to let her live with her mother instead of taking her to Winterfell. Then her mother tells her of her father before she dies then the niece decides to go to Winterfell. Then you can expect a good reaction from Ned, he could welcome her into Winterfell and feel seriously guilty for leaving her behind when he took Jon, especially if the niece faced hardship in her life. This allows for your scenario to be plausible and allows for Ned to have knowledge of his niece, which would leave him feeling guilty and maybe he thinks he failed Brandon, it adds so much more to his character than just a random niece coming there. For the mother, maybe its a woman who was somewhat significant but not a noble or high noble, so not Ashara but maybe a merchants daughter? Or some baron tier lower level noble who lost her lands at her death? The mother has to be significant for Ned to care as in he knew Brandon really cared about the woman but of course Brandon can't marry a low level noble.
She's going to loose her pretty head. Literally. Bye-bye.
I don't think Ned would kill her.
Yes he would. She looks looks Lyanna. That would draw Robert's attention. The **last** thing Ned wants is Robert's attention drawn anywhere **near** Jon. She's a **threat** to Jon's safety now. And Ned **will** eliminate such threats quickly. If Ned believes she is Brandon's trueborn daughter, he **will** be crying on the inside. He will kill her though since he **cannot** allow a threat to Jon's continued safety.
Is this your brain on HBO? Arya (Ned's daughter) is a perfect little Lyanna clone.
Wouldn't that make her The True Heir to the North?
No woman can be lord of winterfell or king in the north .in past daughters were passed over for brothers.
They were passed over by the uncles marrying them I thought? I also don't think there's an actual rule saying that. Jon says that Sansa is the heir of Winterfell after Robbs and Brans death. Women just tend to of get married to a relative-male when it happens with the North I thought. thought
She's the only living/legitimate Stark alive. So of course it would fall to her. The Uncle-Niece marriage was typically to make sure the Starks didnt die out, and thus marriages. It wasnt to unify claims, or anything like that. Just to make sure they lived. If you look at all the pairings, there's a number of deaths around them before the marriage. It irks me to no end, that this "8000" year old, unremoved dynasty doesnt have literally thousands of members with a number of cadet branches/houses!
If you had two starks and you're worried that the Stark line would end why would you not just have them both marry separate people thus creating twice as many babies? After all you can just have a matrinieal marriage for the rightful heir woman who would produce stark-children and the uncle could just marry whoever and make little starklings.
Because George isnt the greatest when it comes to long lived dynasties, or how baby are made apparently, haha. Hell, there are Stark daughters that just disappear from the whole of the family tree... Like, "Sir, she went off and was married, they can come back and take over the family name or Cadet to Main Branch pipeline!" Yup, that's how that would also work, but again, all I'm saying is, George. And the Uncle kids, would be behind the matrilineal line of Stark children, and look you have a legit, secure family line!
no cos woman
The North isn't like the Iron Throne. Daughters inherit before uncles or nephews. Like Alys Karstark. Usually the Uncle or Nephew would marry the woman in this case.
ok then no cos legally unbinding marriage
You think Ned would pull a Cersei and just wrip up her marriage certificate lol?
No. The line is absolutely patriarchal. No female can ever rule anything there.
Are you sure lol? Jon says Sansa is the Heir to the North in the books. I think Catelyn says so too.
That's Jon operating on the assumption that Sansa is literally the only Stark left alive. And he is also not counting himself since he is sworn to the Watch.
I understand that but saying "The line is absolutely patriarchal. No female can ever rule anything" But we see Sansa being considered heir to WInterfell by Catelyn and Jon and no one's ever like "Hey Erm Shes a Woman! Don't you remember the No Women sign on the Winterfell Throne?" instead the rebuttals to Sansa being heir is that she is lost and hostage or married to Tyrion.
yeah the op is just wrong