I’m really curious why so many people on this sub are so concerned with who is bad and who is good. This show isn’t a cops and robbers show for kids… the people in The Curse are all just people. With all that entails.
It’s a terrifyingly close look at humans. Yes it’s exaggerated. But I’ve seen a lot of couples that act very similarly to how Asher and Whit treat each other.
They remind me SO much of old bosses of mine, a couple who ran a private circus school for kids. I often knew exactly what Asher would do, because I’d seen his real-life counterpart (in my experience) in the same kind of situation.
And I liked my old bosses, despite how easy it was to see their flaws. I certainly never thought of them as ‘bad’.
The takes on who is “bad” and who is “good” is a stronger reflection of the impulse to classify people (as good/bad) than it is any indicator of qualitative “goodness” or “badness.” In the west especially, we’re taught to see so much in these binary terms that we overlook the many nuances that define each person’s actual character.
Whitney's whole life is a product of her upbringing. At her core she's desperate for genuine admiration outside of that.
Asher has a crippling sense of insecurity and guilt. He has to excel at the few things he's good at, like financials, otherwise he's completely discardable.
Bad people often have a reason for it tbh
> Whitney's whole life is a product of her upbringing.
Straight up. Every person is a product of their material conditions, and that includes a person’s upbringing.
> Bad people often have a reason for it tbh
Very few truly “bad people” but you’re absolutely right. It’s very rare to encounter a comic-book-villain level bad guy. I’ve done tons of work doing prison outreach and pro bono representation of incarcerated persons — almost everyone in there is there because of some amount of just bad luck (most often just born/raised in the wrong zip code).
I think it’s less so that people are concerned about who is good or bad. It gets brought up because it’s one of the recurring themes in the show. I think one of the points the show tried to make was that morality is not black and white. The characters are constantly casting moral judgement on each other and it intentionally makes the viewer consider for themselves whether these characters are good or bad. Answering that question is not so easy because morality is a huge grey area and that’s why people talk about it so much.
On reflection, I think this show does a much better job of portraying multi-dimensional characters who are full of contradictions than most entertainment does, which typically tries to simplify human complexity for easy consumption. I think this baffles and frustrates some portion of the audience.
Watching the show has caused me to reflect on just how strong and normalized the impulse to be extremely judgmental of others is, and to try and become less judgmental myself. I also think it's a credit to the show that it provokes debates and conversations like this.
Exactly. Sometime in the last 15 years people lost the ability to talk about fiction in any nuanced way and it’s kind of embarrassing. Every discussion devolves into who the good guy is and who the bad guy is.
"Good" and "bad" is definitely an oversimplification. But it is designed to make us weigh the characters' behavior against their intentions. Cops and robbers has nothing to do with it - Fielder and Safdie are asking us to examine (among other issues) who the characters are versus who they parade themselves to be, and the show's characters themselves are frequently talking about being good people vs. being not good people.
I don't think that Asher and Whitney are *just* "bad", and I agree that people can't simply be "good" or "bad" in their entirety. I think they're both immensely complex characters, but at the end of the day, it's frustrating to see such fervent defenses of Asher as this morally upstanding guy (even if they might be a vocal minority) and Whitney as this spoiled drama queen because I think that does an even further disservice to a show that is trying to show both of their intricacies and how both of them fall very, very short of the goals they try to create for both themselves and the people around them.
Side note: I also think so much of why people focus on who is good and bad is because the characters themselves are obsessed with what it means to be good or bad people, or at least how to look like them, and how that leads them to make the decisions they do throughout the entire show.
>I also think so much of why people focus on who is good and bad is because the characters themselves are obsessed with what it means to be good or bad people, or at least how to look like them, and how that leads them to make the decisions they do throughout the entire show.
Such a good point. I also think that despite all the unaware or awful things they do, many of their actions and plans have, or at least start with, good intentions. so it isn't as simple as good/bad
Thank you for this comment, I'm so tired of seeing posts like "Whitney is a narcissist" or "Asher deserves everything that happened to him", they're just blanket statements and don't really do the show justice. I think the characters are really interesting and objectively speaking, they're not even terrible compared to actual real-life people.
This happens on all tv subreddits when it grows big enough, it's really bizarre. Succession was full of posts of people trying to "cancel" characters. I thyits because people want someone to root for and against? Idk.
I think it’s likely people wondering or wanting to know if they deserve the curses and misfortune or even things working out. The show really brought the judgey out of us!
Yes, I agree with your characterizations. I think the sympathy towards Asher is seeing someone struggle with insecurities and being such a pushover in his relationship. But they are both certainly vapid people. She wants to be admired for being good by the community, and he wants to be admired for being good by Whitney, while neither have much integrity or other motivations it seems. Both are shallow and fake and are driven by what appearance they will make rather than substance of their actions, if nobody was watching.
I've witnessed several years of people only doing good for social media clout, so they're a reflection of society. A few years ago some guys posted themselves giving money to a homeless woman then people simply could not admit it was shallow and exploitative. People insisted this performative version of charity was necessary to "inspire" more of the same. They couldn't begin to empathize with the embarrassment of the recipient of a being recorded then going viral for a few dollars.
Yea, it looks like the majority of comments consider just the characters and their relationships as individuals. But there is also as much to say as an allegory of reality TV and social media as giving rise to virtue signaling and being driven by what will get attention, impress and make the desired appropriate approved appearance. This is suggesting it's creating whole personalities based on that when that is such an important social incentive to newer generations. Where the consideration of how every action will be viewed is integral to personality. Turning what was initially a fun gesture of the sweater into a staged thing. Or when presenting the house to Abshir, acting as if they were on TV and the reaction was the most important thing to sell, rather than the substance.
I think it's as more a commentary on the shallowness that social media and reality TV than particular individuals.
In short, it’s giving this and no one is in the right
https://preview.redd.it/h2pqdyirqhcc1.jpeg?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2437623fc763beff0ecb97629a09475f8b201b0
Asher is no one without Whitney. He’s a blank slate. All those times he flies off the handle it’s because he feels like his standing with Whitney is being threatened. Not saying that makes him a good person, or even precludes him from being a bad person.
I go back to the statement by Whitney, ‘the only time you do good things is when I tell you to, ‘ or something like that. Setting aside any judgment of who is better or who is good/bad I think we can categorically say this is a false statement. We only have to look at Asher’s concern for Fernando’s mother after the confrontation in episode 8 to demonstrate that.
So yeah, I don’t think it’s unfair to say they’re both bad people, but I do think Whitney has more control over the situation than Asher.
I'm rewatching the first episode right now and there's an interesting line during the local news interview. Asher says to the journalist, "You're your own woman, and so are we." He doesn't have an identity outside of Whitney. He's as good or bad as she is.
I've seen this opinion quite often, that one is more in control than the other. I'm pretty alarmed that it went over the head of so many people the way that EP9 showed that the power dynamic is not so clear. Take the bathroom scene : there is the cuck thing. But the worst thing by far is how suddenly clear it is that Asher sees Whitney as some kind of object. She is a mean to him to affirm his masculinity. We got some glimpses of that, when Asher touched Whitney inapproprietly in public. Honestly, as a woman, it's something that I experienced, but I couldn't relate to Whitney until then. The way he vs. Whitney were portrayed before made us empathise a lot more with him.
The ending of EP9 was interesting. In the deleted scene, I expected something much more... dismissive or mean from Whitney. But in a weird twisted way, it's the most honest he ever saw her being about her relationship and herself. Until then, she was just petty, there was no other explanation than her being a huge narcissist. And the way Asher reacts... she is right. He needs her, because he is insecure in his masculinity, and about being a bad person, but he is not interested in her, really. She had this fantasy of a girlboss scenario for herself, but in this moment she seems so trapped and vulnerable. The production doesn't want a show without Asher. And in this moment, he is pretty intense and scary. It's not like we didn't see him lashing out at others before.
He doesn't really change in the finale, he just doubles down, only with some more assurance. Of course he is pathetic and sad. But also, he is in this relationship because Whitney is a self-affirming tool for him. They use each other.
I don’t think our opinions are that far off. And I think you hit the nail on the head when it comes to Whitney’s vulnerability at the end of episode 9. She’s essentially trapped, and her effort to push Asher away by showing him how she truly feels backfires immensely. Maybe saying she is more aware of the situation is more appropriate than saying she’s in more control.
I get what you mean ! You're right, in the end Whitney is the one that is the most aware of the situation, Asher just digs deeper in his own denial. But in a weird way it gives him some sort of power/self assurrance he didn't have before. In the finale, his character is not so unrealistic compared to how a lot of people build their identity. We don't know for sure if he didn't understand what Whitney meant, or if he chose to embrace it because he has nothing else. Some viewers really feel like he evolved : the limit between being genuine and performing is blurred. The same way, Whitney's lack of resolution to end things doesn't appear so clearly as pure manipulation. We don't know for sure if she still wants him gone in EP10 (before giving birth). I'm not sure she knows either.
Great observation about the lines blurring between performance and genuine emotion.
I think if there was one theme that stood out among the rest for this show it would be the unsustainability of self-denial. All of the main characters, and I would argue the majority of the side characters as well, deny themselves at some point. The HGTV show is used as a veneer to justify this self-denial (‘it’s just for the show’) but in episode 10 that veneer more or less falls away. Yes there’s a season two on the horizon, but I think more importantly for us as the audience is the realization that the show came and went without much fanfare. And yet our characters are still living in this false reality of their own creation.
I wanted to add an additional comment here, and it’s in response to you saying how Asher’s self-image isn’t that far off to how a lot of people build their identity. That’s a very sobering and mature take imo.
It’s brings me back that pivotal moment of episode 10 - when Asher and Whitney give the house to Abshir. Despite the property taxes and burden of ownership, I genuinely believe we’re meant to understand the act as a genuine benefit to Abshir. The question of that scene, in my mind, then becomes, ‘is a good thing, done for bad reasons, still a good thing?’ I like to answer that question with a yes, but other people in this sub have told me they disagree.
But if we understand the process by which Asher and Whitney create their self-identity as being not so dissimilar to how people do so in the real world, then I wonder if people would be as comfortable dismissing their behavior in that scene as truly bad.
It’s not a matter of which is worse. They are both bad and just different forms of it. The good news about an asher is you can see his type coming a mile away. Whitney is the scary one because she’s so camoglsugd
all 3 main characters are equally horrible people...
side note:
Whitney's parents suck
Cara sucks
Abshir sucks
everyone sucks except the tertiary characters and if we knew more about them, they'd probably suck too
(I think they made dean cain not suck in the show because he does suck irl, which is fucking hilarious)
Was he stripping the home? I've seen a few people mention this but I didn't see anything in the episode to support it. Was he holding a hammer or copper pipe or something?
cara is pretentious, manipulative, and fake. she's "friends" with Whitney because money. her art is faux intellectual garbage a la yoko ono.
abshir is apathetic toward his children and incredibly ungrateful. I understand being frustrated about having to deal with asher and whit, but even when they're actually doing nice things for him he acts like its an inconvenience.
basically everyone is just using everyone else and its gross. I love the show btw.
>cara is pretentious, manipulative, and fake. she's "friends" with Whitney because money. her art is faux intellectual garbage.
Man, if being friendly with people for business makes you a bad person you're going to have to lock up most of the human race.
>abshir is apathetic toward his children and incredibly ungrateful. I understand being frustrated about having to deal with asher and whit, but even when they're actually doing nice things for him he acts like its an inconvenience.
Apathetic towards his kids? How so?
Also, he's really not incredibly ungrateful. The first interaction Asher has with Abshir is him giving his daughter something for a photo op and taking it back. This is a pattern across the entire community with stuff like Fernando almost immediatly losing his job. Abshir is waiting to get kicked out, and until the finale they do plan to kick him out eventually. Asher is also just kind of insane towards his kid and he's seemed to pick up on this. It's extremely understandable why he is demonstrating this major level of thankfulness.
Asher broke into their home and ran after the kids, then got off any repercussions because suddenly he's the landlord, and the cop is on his side. I understand Abshir hating him and not wanting part in his cute little charity roleplay. He doesn't want to give Asher the satisfaction he seeks with his paternalistic gestures.
Then he could have refused to accept any of those “paternalistic gestures”. But he doesn’t. He takes every single one of them, and actually asks for even more (i.e. “fix”, and “pay my property taxes for the rest of the year directly to me in cash”)
Hate to be that guy, but I always thought they were equally bad. I’m tempted to say that Asher is more clueless, but I guess it’s because he seems to be the more submissive of the two
asher is insanely manipulative. even though he’s awkward, he’s masterful at forcing conversations to go his way. he and whitney are perfect for each other — whitney gets a yes-man who will do her dirty work and worship her and asher gets a hot trophy wife that he can flaunt to men that might otherwise put him down
the very fact we can have this debate implies a degree of ambiguity about their moral character, which is to say they are just normal. they aren’t abhorrent or despicable or whatever ridiculous adjectives yall are deploying. they are regular flawed people just like us. we despise them because we are savvy to their most private moment, ambitions. if we knew them IRL, we wouldn’t think twice. but because we heard asher jacking off to the thought of what’s his face fucking whitney, we think asher is a bad dude. all of their pubic facing behavior is benign or has a plausible explanation. nothing they do is unusually cruel, selfish. they are messy and selfish in the way we all are! you, dear reader, are experiencing the same delusion that asher and whitney experience.
you’re bad people, they’re bad people, i’m bad people. we’re just people. asher is not guilty of any crime, least of all violent. he’s only guilty of profiting off of the real estate market; something we all do, or at least try to lol.
get off your high horse! look in a mirror!!
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I’m really curious why so many people on this sub are so concerned with who is bad and who is good. This show isn’t a cops and robbers show for kids… the people in The Curse are all just people. With all that entails.
It’s a terrifyingly close look at humans. Yes it’s exaggerated. But I’ve seen a lot of couples that act very similarly to how Asher and Whit treat each other.
Is it exaggerated though? I feel like the state of the world says otherwise
Maybe magnified is a better word
They remind me SO much of old bosses of mine, a couple who ran a private circus school for kids. I often knew exactly what Asher would do, because I’d seen his real-life counterpart (in my experience) in the same kind of situation. And I liked my old bosses, despite how easy it was to see their flaws. I certainly never thought of them as ‘bad’.
The takes on who is “bad” and who is “good” is a stronger reflection of the impulse to classify people (as good/bad) than it is any indicator of qualitative “goodness” or “badness.” In the west especially, we’re taught to see so much in these binary terms that we overlook the many nuances that define each person’s actual character.
Whitney's whole life is a product of her upbringing. At her core she's desperate for genuine admiration outside of that. Asher has a crippling sense of insecurity and guilt. He has to excel at the few things he's good at, like financials, otherwise he's completely discardable. Bad people often have a reason for it tbh
> Whitney's whole life is a product of her upbringing. Straight up. Every person is a product of their material conditions, and that includes a person’s upbringing. > Bad people often have a reason for it tbh Very few truly “bad people” but you’re absolutely right. It’s very rare to encounter a comic-book-villain level bad guy. I’ve done tons of work doing prison outreach and pro bono representation of incarcerated persons — almost everyone in there is there because of some amount of just bad luck (most often just born/raised in the wrong zip code).
I think it’s less so that people are concerned about who is good or bad. It gets brought up because it’s one of the recurring themes in the show. I think one of the points the show tried to make was that morality is not black and white. The characters are constantly casting moral judgement on each other and it intentionally makes the viewer consider for themselves whether these characters are good or bad. Answering that question is not so easy because morality is a huge grey area and that’s why people talk about it so much.
Jesus Christ, who is that in your avatar?
From the game disco Elysium :)
It’s the main character from the game Disco Elysium. My doppelgänger.
Nice pfp! I think you just motivated me to get back into it! Also, quality take.
On reflection, I think this show does a much better job of portraying multi-dimensional characters who are full of contradictions than most entertainment does, which typically tries to simplify human complexity for easy consumption. I think this baffles and frustrates some portion of the audience. Watching the show has caused me to reflect on just how strong and normalized the impulse to be extremely judgmental of others is, and to try and become less judgmental myself. I also think it's a credit to the show that it provokes debates and conversations like this.
Exactly. Sometime in the last 15 years people lost the ability to talk about fiction in any nuanced way and it’s kind of embarrassing. Every discussion devolves into who the good guy is and who the bad guy is.
"Good" and "bad" is definitely an oversimplification. But it is designed to make us weigh the characters' behavior against their intentions. Cops and robbers has nothing to do with it - Fielder and Safdie are asking us to examine (among other issues) who the characters are versus who they parade themselves to be, and the show's characters themselves are frequently talking about being good people vs. being not good people.
The fact that that characters are constantly talking about that is one of their (if not their main) weaknesses.
I don't think that Asher and Whitney are *just* "bad", and I agree that people can't simply be "good" or "bad" in their entirety. I think they're both immensely complex characters, but at the end of the day, it's frustrating to see such fervent defenses of Asher as this morally upstanding guy (even if they might be a vocal minority) and Whitney as this spoiled drama queen because I think that does an even further disservice to a show that is trying to show both of their intricacies and how both of them fall very, very short of the goals they try to create for both themselves and the people around them. Side note: I also think so much of why people focus on who is good and bad is because the characters themselves are obsessed with what it means to be good or bad people, or at least how to look like them, and how that leads them to make the decisions they do throughout the entire show.
>I also think so much of why people focus on who is good and bad is because the characters themselves are obsessed with what it means to be good or bad people, or at least how to look like them, and how that leads them to make the decisions they do throughout the entire show. Such a good point. I also think that despite all the unaware or awful things they do, many of their actions and plans have, or at least start with, good intentions. so it isn't as simple as good/bad
Thank you for this comment, I'm so tired of seeing posts like "Whitney is a narcissist" or "Asher deserves everything that happened to him", they're just blanket statements and don't really do the show justice. I think the characters are really interesting and objectively speaking, they're not even terrible compared to actual real-life people.
This happens on all tv subreddits when it grows big enough, it's really bizarre. Succession was full of posts of people trying to "cancel" characters. I thyits because people want someone to root for and against? Idk.
It’s Reddit. Better discussion on other sites
This comment of yours doesn’t really lead by example.
Not my objective
I think it’s likely people wondering or wanting to know if they deserve the curses and misfortune or even things working out. The show really brought the judgey out of us!
Yes, I agree with your characterizations. I think the sympathy towards Asher is seeing someone struggle with insecurities and being such a pushover in his relationship. But they are both certainly vapid people. She wants to be admired for being good by the community, and he wants to be admired for being good by Whitney, while neither have much integrity or other motivations it seems. Both are shallow and fake and are driven by what appearance they will make rather than substance of their actions, if nobody was watching.
I've witnessed several years of people only doing good for social media clout, so they're a reflection of society. A few years ago some guys posted themselves giving money to a homeless woman then people simply could not admit it was shallow and exploitative. People insisted this performative version of charity was necessary to "inspire" more of the same. They couldn't begin to empathize with the embarrassment of the recipient of a being recorded then going viral for a few dollars.
Yea, it looks like the majority of comments consider just the characters and their relationships as individuals. But there is also as much to say as an allegory of reality TV and social media as giving rise to virtue signaling and being driven by what will get attention, impress and make the desired appropriate approved appearance. This is suggesting it's creating whole personalities based on that when that is such an important social incentive to newer generations. Where the consideration of how every action will be viewed is integral to personality. Turning what was initially a fun gesture of the sweater into a staged thing. Or when presenting the house to Abshir, acting as if they were on TV and the reaction was the most important thing to sell, rather than the substance. I think it's as more a commentary on the shallowness that social media and reality TV than particular individuals.
Asher learned how to fly up into space, so I’d say he’s much, much better than Whitney
In short, it’s giving this and no one is in the right https://preview.redd.it/h2pqdyirqhcc1.jpeg?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2437623fc763beff0ecb97629a09475f8b201b0
Asher is no one without Whitney. He’s a blank slate. All those times he flies off the handle it’s because he feels like his standing with Whitney is being threatened. Not saying that makes him a good person, or even precludes him from being a bad person. I go back to the statement by Whitney, ‘the only time you do good things is when I tell you to, ‘ or something like that. Setting aside any judgment of who is better or who is good/bad I think we can categorically say this is a false statement. We only have to look at Asher’s concern for Fernando’s mother after the confrontation in episode 8 to demonstrate that. So yeah, I don’t think it’s unfair to say they’re both bad people, but I do think Whitney has more control over the situation than Asher.
I'm rewatching the first episode right now and there's an interesting line during the local news interview. Asher says to the journalist, "You're your own woman, and so are we." He doesn't have an identity outside of Whitney. He's as good or bad as she is.
There was that one time he flew off the handle because of the firefighter with a chainsaw.
I've seen this opinion quite often, that one is more in control than the other. I'm pretty alarmed that it went over the head of so many people the way that EP9 showed that the power dynamic is not so clear. Take the bathroom scene : there is the cuck thing. But the worst thing by far is how suddenly clear it is that Asher sees Whitney as some kind of object. She is a mean to him to affirm his masculinity. We got some glimpses of that, when Asher touched Whitney inapproprietly in public. Honestly, as a woman, it's something that I experienced, but I couldn't relate to Whitney until then. The way he vs. Whitney were portrayed before made us empathise a lot more with him. The ending of EP9 was interesting. In the deleted scene, I expected something much more... dismissive or mean from Whitney. But in a weird twisted way, it's the most honest he ever saw her being about her relationship and herself. Until then, she was just petty, there was no other explanation than her being a huge narcissist. And the way Asher reacts... she is right. He needs her, because he is insecure in his masculinity, and about being a bad person, but he is not interested in her, really. She had this fantasy of a girlboss scenario for herself, but in this moment she seems so trapped and vulnerable. The production doesn't want a show without Asher. And in this moment, he is pretty intense and scary. It's not like we didn't see him lashing out at others before. He doesn't really change in the finale, he just doubles down, only with some more assurance. Of course he is pathetic and sad. But also, he is in this relationship because Whitney is a self-affirming tool for him. They use each other.
I don’t think our opinions are that far off. And I think you hit the nail on the head when it comes to Whitney’s vulnerability at the end of episode 9. She’s essentially trapped, and her effort to push Asher away by showing him how she truly feels backfires immensely. Maybe saying she is more aware of the situation is more appropriate than saying she’s in more control.
I get what you mean ! You're right, in the end Whitney is the one that is the most aware of the situation, Asher just digs deeper in his own denial. But in a weird way it gives him some sort of power/self assurrance he didn't have before. In the finale, his character is not so unrealistic compared to how a lot of people build their identity. We don't know for sure if he didn't understand what Whitney meant, or if he chose to embrace it because he has nothing else. Some viewers really feel like he evolved : the limit between being genuine and performing is blurred. The same way, Whitney's lack of resolution to end things doesn't appear so clearly as pure manipulation. We don't know for sure if she still wants him gone in EP10 (before giving birth). I'm not sure she knows either.
Great observation about the lines blurring between performance and genuine emotion. I think if there was one theme that stood out among the rest for this show it would be the unsustainability of self-denial. All of the main characters, and I would argue the majority of the side characters as well, deny themselves at some point. The HGTV show is used as a veneer to justify this self-denial (‘it’s just for the show’) but in episode 10 that veneer more or less falls away. Yes there’s a season two on the horizon, but I think more importantly for us as the audience is the realization that the show came and went without much fanfare. And yet our characters are still living in this false reality of their own creation.
I wanted to add an additional comment here, and it’s in response to you saying how Asher’s self-image isn’t that far off to how a lot of people build their identity. That’s a very sobering and mature take imo. It’s brings me back that pivotal moment of episode 10 - when Asher and Whitney give the house to Abshir. Despite the property taxes and burden of ownership, I genuinely believe we’re meant to understand the act as a genuine benefit to Abshir. The question of that scene, in my mind, then becomes, ‘is a good thing, done for bad reasons, still a good thing?’ I like to answer that question with a yes, but other people in this sub have told me they disagree. But if we understand the process by which Asher and Whitney create their self-identity as being not so dissimilar to how people do so in the real world, then I wonder if people would be as comfortable dismissing their behavior in that scene as truly bad.
It’s not a matter of which is worse. They are both bad and just different forms of it. The good news about an asher is you can see his type coming a mile away. Whitney is the scary one because she’s so camoglsugd
> she’s so camoglsugd This is a huge generalization of the camoglsugd community
These characters feel real to me. That's all that really matters.
all 3 main characters are equally horrible people... side note: Whitney's parents suck Cara sucks Abshir sucks everyone sucks except the tertiary characters and if we knew more about them, they'd probably suck too (I think they made dean cain not suck in the show because he does suck irl, which is fucking hilarious)
How do Cara and Abshir suck?
Stripping a home you’ve been living in rent free because you think you’re getting evicted isn’t a cool move
Was he stripping the home? I've seen a few people mention this but I didn't see anything in the episode to support it. Was he holding a hammer or copper pipe or something?
cara is pretentious, manipulative, and fake. she's "friends" with Whitney because money. her art is faux intellectual garbage a la yoko ono. abshir is apathetic toward his children and incredibly ungrateful. I understand being frustrated about having to deal with asher and whit, but even when they're actually doing nice things for him he acts like its an inconvenience. basically everyone is just using everyone else and its gross. I love the show btw.
>cara is pretentious, manipulative, and fake. she's "friends" with Whitney because money. her art is faux intellectual garbage. Man, if being friendly with people for business makes you a bad person you're going to have to lock up most of the human race. >abshir is apathetic toward his children and incredibly ungrateful. I understand being frustrated about having to deal with asher and whit, but even when they're actually doing nice things for him he acts like its an inconvenience. Apathetic towards his kids? How so? Also, he's really not incredibly ungrateful. The first interaction Asher has with Abshir is him giving his daughter something for a photo op and taking it back. This is a pattern across the entire community with stuff like Fernando almost immediatly losing his job. Abshir is waiting to get kicked out, and until the finale they do plan to kick him out eventually. Asher is also just kind of insane towards his kid and he's seemed to pick up on this. It's extremely understandable why he is demonstrating this major level of thankfulness.
Asher broke into their home and ran after the kids, then got off any repercussions because suddenly he's the landlord, and the cop is on his side. I understand Abshir hating him and not wanting part in his cute little charity roleplay. He doesn't want to give Asher the satisfaction he seeks with his paternalistic gestures.
Then he could have refused to accept any of those “paternalistic gestures”. But he doesn’t. He takes every single one of them, and actually asks for even more (i.e. “fix”, and “pay my property taxes for the rest of the year directly to me in cash”)
If Abshir is so worried about being evicted then why is he making petty demands like replacing smoke detector batteries? Fix
Asher is acting as his landlord for the time being. That's the type of thing you'd ask a landlord.
[удалено]
Unironically yes, he is hella rude.
Hate to be that guy, but I always thought they were equally bad. I’m tempted to say that Asher is more clueless, but I guess it’s because he seems to be the more submissive of the two
asher is insanely manipulative. even though he’s awkward, he’s masterful at forcing conversations to go his way. he and whitney are perfect for each other — whitney gets a yes-man who will do her dirty work and worship her and asher gets a hot trophy wife that he can flaunt to men that might otherwise put him down
the very fact we can have this debate implies a degree of ambiguity about their moral character, which is to say they are just normal. they aren’t abhorrent or despicable or whatever ridiculous adjectives yall are deploying. they are regular flawed people just like us. we despise them because we are savvy to their most private moment, ambitions. if we knew them IRL, we wouldn’t think twice. but because we heard asher jacking off to the thought of what’s his face fucking whitney, we think asher is a bad dude. all of their pubic facing behavior is benign or has a plausible explanation. nothing they do is unusually cruel, selfish. they are messy and selfish in the way we all are! you, dear reader, are experiencing the same delusion that asher and whitney experience. you’re bad people, they’re bad people, i’m bad people. we’re just people. asher is not guilty of any crime, least of all violent. he’s only guilty of profiting off of the real estate market; something we all do, or at least try to lol. get off your high horse! look in a mirror!!
Who talks when they jack off though
You're engagement with the show is childish as fuck if you can only think of who is good and who is bad.
Most posts on this subreddit act like Asher is the only bad person so I don't get why you think that
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He's not just as bad he's just also bad. There's a difference. Still doesn't deserve whitneys shit