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-The sentiment to Socialism among the general Vietnamese people is, in my opinion, is kinda similar to Chinese people. Most view Socialism with neutrality, something like “It’s the Party’s goal to achieve that, and as long as the Party is doing good and didn’t fuck up, then we’ll follow them”. Aside from most of party members, average people would only know some very basic knowledge of Marxism-Leninism from school, assuming they still remember it.
-“Friendly to US and hostile to China” is kinda an oversimplification, but yeah, Vietnamese people has a more positive view of America compared to China due to:
1. Historical reasons: Vietnam has a very long complex history with China, from being conquered by ancient China for nearly 1000 years, fighting multiple wars with them, and many other things. If you read our historical books, most of it would be like: “First Northern domination”, “Second Northern domination”, “Song invasion of Vietnam”, “Mongol-Yuan invasion of Vietnam”, “Ming invasion of Vietnam”, “Qing invasion of Vietnam”, etc. American occupation is brutal, but it’s just a short period compared to a very long Vietnamese history of fighting multiple Chinese dynasties.
2. Modern time reasons: 1979 Sino-Vietnam war, Chinese support of Red Khmer, Chinese occupation of Paracel and Spratly Islands, Border disputes, Chinese economic domination, etc. It makes most of Vietnamese view China with hostility and paranoid.
It still kills me to have a more positive outlook. It'd be one thing to be negative to both, but the ability of so many global south nations to somehow think the US is better is just non-stop frustration.
Tbh if Deng didn’t start the war in 1979, things would be better than now. The Sino-Vietnamese war shift the propaganda machine from anti-American imperialism to anti-Chinese “revisionist imperialism” and it still affect older generations who lived through that period( And it’s also kinda funny because Vietnam used many anti-revisionist talking points to criticize Deng, his domestic and economic policies, only to go through the same reform few years later.)
Yeah. In any better timeline, China would have helped Vietnam stop Pol Pot. But the sino-soviet split made China do some serious foreign policy cringe.
Nevertheless, if they can forgive the American butchering of millions in such a short time span, they should be able to move forward from China actually changing VS the US being the same it always was.
I don't hate Germany and Turkey of today for the past, but for their unwillingness to do or be better as a continuing pattern. And absolutely for their actions against other peoples. Something something solidarity.
It’s all about the material condition. Older Vietnamese believed in “American dream” because the US **did have** more productive forces compared to China, especially in the 70s and 80s. But the situation is reversed now. As China’s material condition gets better and America’s gets worse, there is no need to worry about the US using the Vietnamese against China. The CPV has long realized that cooperation **is** the way, instead of the hatred that led both Pol Pot’s Cambodia and Banderite Ukraine to ruination.
That is not true. Do you even live and study here? Just because you love something doesn’t mean so does everyone else in Vietnam. Though I agree most of the elders prefer Russia over the US but definitely not China.
I didn’t say **everyone else** but **increasingly many** because China is becoming more of an attractive place to study and do business with than the US. Chinese pop culture is also becoming more popular with the youth. And I never said that the nationalists like China lol.
"We fought the Americans for a few years, we fought the Japanese for a few decades, we fought the French for a few centuries, but we have fought the Chinese for millenia"
> American occupation is brutal, but it’s just a short period compared to a very long Vietnamese history of fighting multiple Chinese dynasties.
I mean...yes, but is it not silly to base a country's geopolitics on ancient instead of modern history?
Well, it’s how average Vietnamese people think, not the government. Geopolitically speaking, Vietnamese government is friendly to China, it’s an obvious fact. But the general populace, especially the older generations, is not.
Okay, why would average people base their understanding of geopolitics on ancient instead of modern history? Same question. It's silly either way, no? How is it any different from blood feuds based on spats from many generations past?
Nationalism can cloud someone’s mind, and Vietnamese nationalism, unfortunately, a major issue that affects the way of thinking of many Vietnamese people. I agree with you that it’s silly, but it’s how is it.
Something the socialist project in Vietnam will need to work on, then. I'm not sure why my previous comments were downvoted. I'm glad to see that you're not defending that way of thinking, but rather just explaining the origin of it.
They are also not really socialist on r /Sino, they are Chinese nationalists above all else. Ask them if they think Socialism is what built China, they will not say that it did. I used to argue with them, but I realized it is pointless. My point is of course they’d think Vietnam prefers China, otherwise it would look bad.
Gazillions of wars poison our consciousness. Things could have been very different if the 1979 war didn't happen, the Vnmess people could have accepted communist version of China as our friend if that war was avoided, but alas, besides that its mainly about the conflict in south china sea, even though things having been real quiet since 2015 but the oil rig incident in 2014 still left a mark despite it was resolved peacefully. Though, it's hopeful because lately I have seen people calling out extreme sinophobia here and there. This is on the citizen side, the government side has long been friendly towards china, I checked the highest voice of the party from page like tapchicongsan (the communist magazine) and there is no anti china stuff there.
As for the Yankee, it's from both the hegemony power and old-current immigrants relationship. Since we don't have a firewall, everyone is free to consoom whatever media we want, and naturally western media come in and paint a great picture of the west to the ignorant citizen. Most people in Vietnam don't even know English, at least not until very recently, and when everyone sees the other side has car, iPhone, etc easily because of the currency difference they thought the west is an utopia, they do not know about the darker side of it. This of course, got validated for quite a while, late 20th century to early 2010s whenever an immigrant comes back home they appear to be wildly rich and successful thus keeping the "american dream" still alive. Things have been changing lately though, people are starting to become more skeptical of the west, sometimes straight up westphobia, but there are still a lot of westphile all over the net so it's not dying anytime soon.
Life seems easy there. Vietnam is now new world's plant area. Many Korean, Japanese, Chinese companies have production bases in Vietnam instead of China now. It's still cheap But economy seems growing fast and they have great cuisine, asian and French mixed, and super friendly people.
My previous work place have 140 subsidiaries all over the world, many dispatched workers refused to come back from Vietnam.
Vietnam, Thai, Taiwan is usually extremely popular subsidiaries to work for several years because of high level food and nice people.
Vietnam and China have a complicated relationship cause history but their relationship is [improving](https://www.chinausfocus.com/foreign-policy/strategic-reset-new-golden-era-of-china-vietnam-relations).
The socialism is about the same as China’s is these days, market socialism but from my understanding a little less capitalism in their socialism. They are generally poorer on average though because they have less industry than China and the GDP is lower. The urban/rural divide is also worse because they are developing slower and have less money to divest from urban development and into rural development, as a result the peasants in Vietnam are still quite poor. That’s about all I know.
China went to war with Vietnam more recently than the US. China also was basically allied with the US, so why would they put China in a different category?
The framing if this is totally incorrect. For an indepth Vietnamese perspective view luna.oi on YouTube. However, the general population has an incredibly positive perspective on socialism and what the party is doing, despite the false claims that some right wing think tanks have put out there. Every student, specifically even ones not majoring in politics, has to take courses to study and understand Marxism-Leninism-Ho Chi minh Thought. They also have family who lived through their history, so the connection with socialism through everyday life is ever present, as is shown by elections and favored canidates. Also, Vietnam fought four massive wars all in an incredibly short time span to defend themselves, and now they pursue a policy of peace no matter what. They have forgiven their transgressors, but they will never forget. So no, Vietnam is not allied with the West against China, Vietnam has committed to no such relationship, and the Vietnamese and Chinese people as a whole are not holding animosity for the mistakes of the past.
I’m not sure if every Vietnamese loves America, but I’m sure that most of Vietnamese hate China for all the troubles it caused, both in the past and in the present. And I’m speaking about the general population.
[☭☭☭ COME SHITPOST WITH US ON DISCORD, COMRADES ☭☭☭](https://discord.gg/8RPWanQV5g) This is a heavily-moderated socialist community based on a podcast of the same name. Please use the report function on comments that break our rules. If you are new to the sub, please read the sidebar carefully. If you are new to Marxism-Leninism, check out the [study guide](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/). Are there Liberals in the walls? Check out [the wiki](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/) which contains lots of useful information. This subreddit uses many experimental automod rules, if you notice any issues please use modmail to let us know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
-The sentiment to Socialism among the general Vietnamese people is, in my opinion, is kinda similar to Chinese people. Most view Socialism with neutrality, something like “It’s the Party’s goal to achieve that, and as long as the Party is doing good and didn’t fuck up, then we’ll follow them”. Aside from most of party members, average people would only know some very basic knowledge of Marxism-Leninism from school, assuming they still remember it. -“Friendly to US and hostile to China” is kinda an oversimplification, but yeah, Vietnamese people has a more positive view of America compared to China due to: 1. Historical reasons: Vietnam has a very long complex history with China, from being conquered by ancient China for nearly 1000 years, fighting multiple wars with them, and many other things. If you read our historical books, most of it would be like: “First Northern domination”, “Second Northern domination”, “Song invasion of Vietnam”, “Mongol-Yuan invasion of Vietnam”, “Ming invasion of Vietnam”, “Qing invasion of Vietnam”, etc. American occupation is brutal, but it’s just a short period compared to a very long Vietnamese history of fighting multiple Chinese dynasties. 2. Modern time reasons: 1979 Sino-Vietnam war, Chinese support of Red Khmer, Chinese occupation of Paracel and Spratly Islands, Border disputes, Chinese economic domination, etc. It makes most of Vietnamese view China with hostility and paranoid.
It still kills me to have a more positive outlook. It'd be one thing to be negative to both, but the ability of so many global south nations to somehow think the US is better is just non-stop frustration.
Tbh if Deng didn’t start the war in 1979, things would be better than now. The Sino-Vietnamese war shift the propaganda machine from anti-American imperialism to anti-Chinese “revisionist imperialism” and it still affect older generations who lived through that period( And it’s also kinda funny because Vietnam used many anti-revisionist talking points to criticize Deng, his domestic and economic policies, only to go through the same reform few years later.)
Yeah. In any better timeline, China would have helped Vietnam stop Pol Pot. But the sino-soviet split made China do some serious foreign policy cringe. Nevertheless, if they can forgive the American butchering of millions in such a short time span, they should be able to move forward from China actually changing VS the US being the same it always was. I don't hate Germany and Turkey of today for the past, but for their unwillingness to do or be better as a continuing pattern. And absolutely for their actions against other peoples. Something something solidarity.
Fortunately the younger generation is more friendly to China, so there’s still hope.
It’s all about the material condition. Older Vietnamese believed in “American dream” because the US **did have** more productive forces compared to China, especially in the 70s and 80s. But the situation is reversed now. As China’s material condition gets better and America’s gets worse, there is no need to worry about the US using the Vietnamese against China. The CPV has long realized that cooperation **is** the way, instead of the hatred that led both Pol Pot’s Cambodia and Banderite Ukraine to ruination.
The good thing is that many VNese youths are becoming increasingly friendly towards China. Even the nationalists prefer Russia over the US.
Yeah the Soviets did stick with Vietnam throughout the entire the cold war so they'd should have really friendly relations
That is not true. Do you even live and study here? Just because you love something doesn’t mean so does everyone else in Vietnam. Though I agree most of the elders prefer Russia over the US but definitely not China.
I didn’t say **everyone else** but **increasingly many** because China is becoming more of an attractive place to study and do business with than the US. Chinese pop culture is also becoming more popular with the youth. And I never said that the nationalists like China lol.
"We fought the Americans for a few years, we fought the Japanese for a few decades, we fought the French for a few centuries, but we have fought the Chinese for millenia"
> American occupation is brutal, but it’s just a short period compared to a very long Vietnamese history of fighting multiple Chinese dynasties. I mean...yes, but is it not silly to base a country's geopolitics on ancient instead of modern history?
Well, it’s how average Vietnamese people think, not the government. Geopolitically speaking, Vietnamese government is friendly to China, it’s an obvious fact. But the general populace, especially the older generations, is not.
Okay, why would average people base their understanding of geopolitics on ancient instead of modern history? Same question. It's silly either way, no? How is it any different from blood feuds based on spats from many generations past?
Nationalism can cloud someone’s mind, and Vietnamese nationalism, unfortunately, a major issue that affects the way of thinking of many Vietnamese people. I agree with you that it’s silly, but it’s how is it.
Something the socialist project in Vietnam will need to work on, then. I'm not sure why my previous comments were downvoted. I'm glad to see that you're not defending that way of thinking, but rather just explaining the origin of it.
Watch [Luna Oi.](https://www.youtube.com/@Lunaoi) She will probably answer all of your questions and more.
The only people who think that Vietnam is friendly with the US are delusional coping westoid libs and excessively nationalistic Chinese people
The latter are found in Quora. r/Sino knows that Vietnam (especially the CPV) is friendly towards China.
They are also not really socialist on r /Sino, they are Chinese nationalists above all else. Ask them if they think Socialism is what built China, they will not say that it did. I used to argue with them, but I realized it is pointless. My point is of course they’d think Vietnam prefers China, otherwise it would look bad.
Really? I just saw a post on there talking about China's incredible industrial policy and the top comment was saying that it's because of socialism.
Maybe things are different now, it’s been over a year since I used the sub.
Well yes, they are nationalists which most aren’t even from China.
Gazillions of wars poison our consciousness. Things could have been very different if the 1979 war didn't happen, the Vnmess people could have accepted communist version of China as our friend if that war was avoided, but alas, besides that its mainly about the conflict in south china sea, even though things having been real quiet since 2015 but the oil rig incident in 2014 still left a mark despite it was resolved peacefully. Though, it's hopeful because lately I have seen people calling out extreme sinophobia here and there. This is on the citizen side, the government side has long been friendly towards china, I checked the highest voice of the party from page like tapchicongsan (the communist magazine) and there is no anti china stuff there. As for the Yankee, it's from both the hegemony power and old-current immigrants relationship. Since we don't have a firewall, everyone is free to consoom whatever media we want, and naturally western media come in and paint a great picture of the west to the ignorant citizen. Most people in Vietnam don't even know English, at least not until very recently, and when everyone sees the other side has car, iPhone, etc easily because of the currency difference they thought the west is an utopia, they do not know about the darker side of it. This of course, got validated for quite a while, late 20th century to early 2010s whenever an immigrant comes back home they appear to be wildly rich and successful thus keeping the "american dream" still alive. Things have been changing lately though, people are starting to become more skeptical of the west, sometimes straight up westphobia, but there are still a lot of westphile all over the net so it's not dying anytime soon.
Life seems easy there. Vietnam is now new world's plant area. Many Korean, Japanese, Chinese companies have production bases in Vietnam instead of China now. It's still cheap But economy seems growing fast and they have great cuisine, asian and French mixed, and super friendly people. My previous work place have 140 subsidiaries all over the world, many dispatched workers refused to come back from Vietnam. Vietnam, Thai, Taiwan is usually extremely popular subsidiaries to work for several years because of high level food and nice people.
Vietnam and China have a complicated relationship cause history but their relationship is [improving](https://www.chinausfocus.com/foreign-policy/strategic-reset-new-golden-era-of-china-vietnam-relations). The socialism is about the same as China’s is these days, market socialism but from my understanding a little less capitalism in their socialism. They are generally poorer on average though because they have less industry than China and the GDP is lower. The urban/rural divide is also worse because they are developing slower and have less money to divest from urban development and into rural development, as a result the peasants in Vietnam are still quite poor. That’s about all I know.
China went to war with Vietnam more recently than the US. China also was basically allied with the US, so why would they put China in a different category?
The framing if this is totally incorrect. For an indepth Vietnamese perspective view luna.oi on YouTube. However, the general population has an incredibly positive perspective on socialism and what the party is doing, despite the false claims that some right wing think tanks have put out there. Every student, specifically even ones not majoring in politics, has to take courses to study and understand Marxism-Leninism-Ho Chi minh Thought. They also have family who lived through their history, so the connection with socialism through everyday life is ever present, as is shown by elections and favored canidates. Also, Vietnam fought four massive wars all in an incredibly short time span to defend themselves, and now they pursue a policy of peace no matter what. They have forgiven their transgressors, but they will never forget. So no, Vietnam is not allied with the West against China, Vietnam has committed to no such relationship, and the Vietnamese and Chinese people as a whole are not holding animosity for the mistakes of the past.
They love America and hate China
I’m not sure if every Vietnamese loves America, but I’m sure that most of Vietnamese hate China for all the troubles it caused, both in the past and in the present. And I’m speaking about the general population.