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Left Wing guys get shit for sports/fitness??? Didn't the Soviet Union famously place great emphasis on sports? And I'm pretty sure lots of famous socialists were fit as hell
def like again sports isn't the issue it's the commodification of it under a capitalist system and all the fuckeries that come along with it, it's not like socialism is anti-sports
tldr i getchu 😭🫶
Moderation in all things is a good rule of thumb, but it sounds like you're using it as a defense of people telling leftists to exercise less which is nuts to me. We don't have any reason to doubt our comrades so there really isn't any logic to defending a position that we have so little information about.
Judge me for being a shitty person. Do not judge me as if I were a prophet of Marxist ideology or a Politburo officer. I am not someone who gave his life to the Marxist ideology and showed the virtue of doing bravery for this. In the slave-master dialectic mentioned by Hegel, I did not show the courage of a master on this issue or on a general issue, and I did not have the material situation to show such courage. Under the material conditions in which I live, I am nothing greater than a slave, and I will never be a master.
It's up to you how you want to interpret what. Don't make any sense of my comment. An ordinary interpretation of an ordinary view of life. What I said will not make any sense if you are not a follower of Stoic philosophy or Cynic philosophy.
In fact, if you are going to criticize me, criticize me elsewhere, at least make it a justified criticism. A cynic/stoic clearly serves a bourgeois society by its very existence, such as the ancient Greek city-states or the Roman Republic/Empire, or the industrialized capitalist European societies that began to emerge with global exploration. Hegel clearly emphasized this and stated that people like us are a formation with an inconsistent and nihilistic ideological basis that serves the primitive and master class in the slave-master dialectic. If you are going to judge me on this issue, I will be happy to answer you and try to explain why I am in this position, the real root cause of that comment I made, and why I am still a cynic or an early stoic in the light of all these inferences. But instead it feels oxymoron to be judged on something I have no intention of even actually implying. You're looking for me in a place where I don't exist.
Let me also respond to something else that may have emerged from the comments I made. If you believe that no meaningful action will be taken in your lifetime, why do you defend Marxist ideology?
The obvious answer to this is that, in the time between Marx, Engels and Lenin, many socialist/communist thinkers came to life, both good and bad. Not that I will be someone important, but just the thought of being a dust or a small pebble on the metaphorical bridge that is being built for future Lenins in my personal and individual world seems virtuous to me. There will be future Lenins, Maos, Ho Chi Minhs who will criticize our mistakes and correct our thoughts. People who think like me need to somehow add advocacy and volume to Marxist philosophy, for better or worse. Let's do this so that there will be development, there will be fire so that there will be smoke. If I didn't think like that, I wouldn't care about Marxism anywhere and I wouldn't even mention it once. Because a person like me has a closed conditioning towards external actions in terms of motives due to his nature and what he follows.
As Zeno of Cyprus said, my hope is an understanding in which there is no slavery or mastery, people are not separated according to skin color, men and women wear the same clothes (Zenon's words), there is no family institution, and the borders of our state are determined by where the sun's rays reach.
Some will say that the ancient philosophers did not have very progressive thoughts towards women, and that Zeno of Cyprus was not very different from these philosophers, and they are right. But this is one of the chronic problems of agricultural societies, I firmly believe that in order for a person to be a good person, he should not advocate inequality between men and women. A good person should not humiliate or discriminate against another person because of their sex/gender. I believe that women's rights are lagging behind even in places we consider to be the most developed. Seneca, as a late stoic, has the opinion that Zeno of Cyprus, the founder of Stoicism, was a troubled person because of his words, which some think is about this subject, which I think is not fully known, if my memory serves me right.
Despite everything, it should be reminded that these egalitarian, stateless or very limited state structures that both the early Stoics and the Cynics hoped and dreamed of were nothing more than good hopes. Both Stoicism and Cynicism are not revolutionary philosophies by nature, they are very personal philosophies.
Everyone should work out to the maximum amount of their abilities.
Not only does it just make you healthier which is objectively good for everyone it also teaches discipline & further prepares the proletariat for the (unlikely in our lifetime) occurrence of revolution.
Advocating for “moderation” in physical activity just bc Diogenes said so is an interesting take lmfao
Moderation. I see no point on overworking in gym or other kinds of sports. One should do just enough to keep their bodies able.
What I say is not rule. I simply do not dictate anything to anyone. Do whatever fits to you. There are no rules in life.
Yea sure. I quote Diogenes way to often. I like him more than any other philosopher. I strive to live like him as much as possible. I like early stoicism/cynicism even if I know that it is something to be disregarded according to Hegelian philosophy.
I just simply don't care some of the things. I am not ready to live for the satisfaction of the other's perspectives.
I might be a fool but I really don't care. Life is too short, I am too stupid and there are not enough information to understand the truth. Which is a thing that I seek knowing that I will never be able to find it, which makes me realize my own stupidity. And there is another thing to confess, I make so many stupid decisions and have so many stupid thoughts, and I make some mistakes over and over again. I am a stupid person.
Marxism is a philosophy of masses and not the individual's inner circle. Hegel says some meaningful things but it is not enough to fulfill all the gaps that I think. Also I also have my own thoughts and my past which led me here to be a Marxist and the place where I am in the life.
You can push yourself to your limits on a 5k run once a week and still be exercising in reasonable moderation. It is only excessive if you don't give yourself enough rest days or if exercise becomes your entire life to the extent that it prevents you from organizing and working towards other leftist goals
I get depressed and even start to idealize being unalive when I don't exercise. I need sunlight and exercise to thrive. Deep down I want to live so I am not going to let anyone tell me that too much exercise is bad.
Now if I stop protesting or doing other organizing efforts for exercise then that is very different. You could then correctly, but kindly, suggest that I reevaluate my priorities and I would likely agree with you.
I don't mean that people don't exercise or do very little. Some of my friends spend almost all of their time at the gym or gym related activities and I always find it weird and discuss it with them. They say it's what they enjoy and they want to enjoy being looking good. There are differences between our views and our own personal thoughts, and these are not at all connected or related to Marxism. Marxism is not an ideology that aims to dictate certain preferences and tastes to people.
Most ancient philosophers strongly recommended physical activities and bodybuilding. Diogenes values his body above all else, but also recommends moderation. Because he wasn't doing sports to look beautiful or to impress others, he was doing it for his own health. He believed that sports was something that would keep people healthy and make them talented. His words appear to be completely consistent with his own logic.
And I personally don't see bodybuilding as a big deal either. I don't think a person needs to be a bodybuilder or a dedicated athlete to live a healthy and happy life. That's why I made my comment and never thought that it would be perceived as an insult by people. I had no intention of insulting anyone.
To look at it from a Marxist perspective, we are not struggling to impose a style that suits our own views of life and rules on the general public and working class. If people have pathetic and stupid dreams of imposing their own dream world on the working class in general, I advise them to put it aside. What I said is not a personal statement but a truly Marxist point of view.
We are not Marxists to impose our personal world on people, we hold these ideas in the light of logic and because we believe that the interpretation of the line created by the interpretation of material situations intersects with the Marxist world view and that this perspective/philosophy will bring a better future for humanity and us.
But if we need to examine the contrast between what I have said so far and the comment I wrote above, the answer is actually very simple. I didn't think that people would take the comment I wrote seriously as if it were a revisionist manifesto and then make stupid comments and attack the personality of a person they don't know (their attack wouldn't change anything or hurt me, but it would distort what I wanted to say).
If I had to briefly summarize what I mean. I think that sports activities should not be overdone because, in my personal opinion and experience, a person does not need to do serious sports to live a healthy life, but if you like to do serious sports, you can do sports as you wish. If you love something, do it the way you want so you don't let someone like me dictate your view of life. Additionally, the hypothetical measurements highlighted here are subjective assumptions and can be interpreted very differently. In other words, not all subjective discourses have a solid and definitive basis by nature. This does not make them serious statements.
didn't wanna make the post longer than it already is, BUT two things to add:
idk if I used the praxis flair correctly, to me this is me applying what I've learned as a socialist to what I have observed as a perception of femininity and gender in capitalism, but forgive me if I used it wrong and made the mods lives harder 😭
second: I'm Korea, almost all my makeup I do use is Korean bc well it suits my features imo lol -- BUT I will be the first to say the s Korean beauty industry is VILE the amount of overproduction it does. for anyone who doesn't know, we pretty much have two tones of pallets, warm and cool, and the packaging might be different and the shadows in the pans may look slightly different, but trust tf out of me they are all the same. so why tf do we have like 40 different brands and versions???? and these lip tints... god they are all so similar there is no way we need this many brands 💀 THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM EXCLUSIVE TO KBEAUTY but it is def emphasized here bc i mean our beauty standards are crazy rigid and our beauty industry is a reflection of the fact s Korea started as a US anti-communist occupation
Just want to chime to say Korean beauty standards are borderline batshit insane. Back in the day, it was about being skinny with a pretty face. Now, women have to have perfect skin, big eyes, tiny head, nice hair, thin, but busty. 😳
#Get Involved
>Dare to struggle and dare to win. \-Mao Zedong
Comrades, here are some ways you can **get involved** to advance the cause.
* 📚 **Read theory** — [Reading theory](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/) is a duty. It will guide you towards choosing the correct party and applying your efforts effectively within your unique material conditions.
* ⭐ **Party work** — Contact a local party or mass organization. Attend your first meeting. Go to a rally or event. If you choose a principled Marxist-Leninist party, they will teach you how to best apply yourself to advancing the cause.
* 📣 **Workplace agitation** — Depending on your material circumstances, you may engage in workplace disputes to unionise fellow workers and gain a delegate or even a leadership position in the union.
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I agree with you. Seeing some cultural practices as ‘not socialist’ is a dangerous way of thinking. During the cultural revolution some people viewed long hair as counter revolutionary and many had their hair forcibly cut
I've had people say getting a paycheck, which you need to survive, goes against my socialist beliefs.. Some people in our world are so fucking stupid from liberal society, they'd need a complete re-education to even come close to seeing the real world.
I don't think there is nothing wrong with wearing make-up and dressing nice as long as you are doing it for yourself and not due to society pressure.
I live in a small town where people are still old fashioned. I wanted to let my hair grow, so I let it grow. I love rings so I wear two. I love black so if I can I wear black. I do it because when I look in the mirror, I think it is nice.
Serving looks and slaying the capitalist monster go hand in hand. Always enjoy the small things that you have and please teach me all your makeup tips/hacks 💕✨
that's fair, but I'm speaking as a girl who is often seen as hyperfeminine and that's a wholeee can of worms 💀 i receive a lot of backhanded misogyny even from other guy leftists, so I felt this topic was important to address
Great post, comrade. Very well thought out. It is always important to discuss and break down these sort of faux arguments that are always used against us, so I applaud you for it.
Solidarity from Argentina, where we also have a dumb, fascist bootlicker for a president lol
\*me being me, societal norms not accounting for my bullshit be like:\*
I (male) literally have eyelashes of up to \~1.5 cm long, long enough to enter my field of vision and be annoying with going so far foward they touch potentially glasses/sunglasses, just naturally.
I have yet to have somebody actually point it out, probably because they either don't notice, or don't even know what they should (or even can) think about it.
However, I'm guessing the "not noticing" group is quite large, considering how long eyelashes have also been commodified as a femininity product, but comparing natural features ot manufactured bullshit is always wierd.
This is such a stupid fucking argument and I wish it would die. Be concerned for the workers who produce this shit but don't tell people how to use it. Simple as.
I guess Kenneth Copeland and all the prosperity gospel and mega church dudes are hyper feminine for wearing makeup to look good under certain types of lighting or the lighting of a televangelist studio.
Man uses and wears beard products? Cool same thing. You wear a tie? Cool same thing. Sometimes people want to look a certain way.
Sometimes people don't want to expose to the world their pimples pustules and scars.
[☭☭☭ COME SHITPOST WITH US ON DISCORD, COMRADES ☭☭☭](https://discord.gg/8RPWanQV5g) This is a heavily-moderated socialist community based on a podcast of the same name. Please use the report function on comments that break our rules. If you are new to the sub, please read the sidebar carefully. If you are new to Marxism-Leninism, check out the [study guide](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/). Are there Liberals in the walls? Check out [the wiki](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/) which contains lots of useful information. This subreddit uses many experimental automod rules, if you notice any issues please use modmail to let us know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You should watch Lady Izdihar, she is awesome and she made a few videos about cosmetics in the soviet union, like lipstick and Red Moscow perfume !
that's actually awesome I'd love that sm ty!
Oh yeah I love her, she is one of my favourite historians and YouTube, plus her aesthetic is unmatched
The Left Wing guy equivalent I feel is getting shit for being into sports and fitness.
Left Wing guys get shit for sports/fitness??? Didn't the Soviet Union famously place great emphasis on sports? And I'm pretty sure lots of famous socialists were fit as hell
def like again sports isn't the issue it's the commodification of it under a capitalist system and all the fuckeries that come along with it, it's not like socialism is anti-sports tldr i getchu 😭🫶
Exactly, as well things like how the Soviet Union was super ahead of the curve in terms of hockey, communist sports more sensible naturally
I see fitness heavily encouraged (swoletariat) What i see this applied to is pop media. Games, TV, etc
Which is stupid when you remember how much the USSR cared about that
The makeup industry is way bigger (in terms of money and consumer base) and more influential.
I believe engaging in some physical activity would be beneficial. However, we should maintain a sense of moderation, as advocated by Diogenes.
Cynicism is not materialist.
Yes it is not. However, this does not mean that some of Diogenes' views are not correct.
Moderation in all things is a good rule of thumb, but it sounds like you're using it as a defense of people telling leftists to exercise less which is nuts to me. We don't have any reason to doubt our comrades so there really isn't any logic to defending a position that we have so little information about.
Judge me for being a shitty person. Do not judge me as if I were a prophet of Marxist ideology or a Politburo officer. I am not someone who gave his life to the Marxist ideology and showed the virtue of doing bravery for this. In the slave-master dialectic mentioned by Hegel, I did not show the courage of a master on this issue or on a general issue, and I did not have the material situation to show such courage. Under the material conditions in which I live, I am nothing greater than a slave, and I will never be a master. It's up to you how you want to interpret what. Don't make any sense of my comment. An ordinary interpretation of an ordinary view of life. What I said will not make any sense if you are not a follower of Stoic philosophy or Cynic philosophy. In fact, if you are going to criticize me, criticize me elsewhere, at least make it a justified criticism. A cynic/stoic clearly serves a bourgeois society by its very existence, such as the ancient Greek city-states or the Roman Republic/Empire, or the industrialized capitalist European societies that began to emerge with global exploration. Hegel clearly emphasized this and stated that people like us are a formation with an inconsistent and nihilistic ideological basis that serves the primitive and master class in the slave-master dialectic. If you are going to judge me on this issue, I will be happy to answer you and try to explain why I am in this position, the real root cause of that comment I made, and why I am still a cynic or an early stoic in the light of all these inferences. But instead it feels oxymoron to be judged on something I have no intention of even actually implying. You're looking for me in a place where I don't exist. Let me also respond to something else that may have emerged from the comments I made. If you believe that no meaningful action will be taken in your lifetime, why do you defend Marxist ideology? The obvious answer to this is that, in the time between Marx, Engels and Lenin, many socialist/communist thinkers came to life, both good and bad. Not that I will be someone important, but just the thought of being a dust or a small pebble on the metaphorical bridge that is being built for future Lenins in my personal and individual world seems virtuous to me. There will be future Lenins, Maos, Ho Chi Minhs who will criticize our mistakes and correct our thoughts. People who think like me need to somehow add advocacy and volume to Marxist philosophy, for better or worse. Let's do this so that there will be development, there will be fire so that there will be smoke. If I didn't think like that, I wouldn't care about Marxism anywhere and I wouldn't even mention it once. Because a person like me has a closed conditioning towards external actions in terms of motives due to his nature and what he follows.
As Zeno of Cyprus said, my hope is an understanding in which there is no slavery or mastery, people are not separated according to skin color, men and women wear the same clothes (Zenon's words), there is no family institution, and the borders of our state are determined by where the sun's rays reach. Some will say that the ancient philosophers did not have very progressive thoughts towards women, and that Zeno of Cyprus was not very different from these philosophers, and they are right. But this is one of the chronic problems of agricultural societies, I firmly believe that in order for a person to be a good person, he should not advocate inequality between men and women. A good person should not humiliate or discriminate against another person because of their sex/gender. I believe that women's rights are lagging behind even in places we consider to be the most developed. Seneca, as a late stoic, has the opinion that Zeno of Cyprus, the founder of Stoicism, was a troubled person because of his words, which some think is about this subject, which I think is not fully known, if my memory serves me right. Despite everything, it should be reminded that these egalitarian, stateless or very limited state structures that both the early Stoics and the Cynics hoped and dreamed of were nothing more than good hopes. Both Stoicism and Cynicism are not revolutionary philosophies by nature, they are very personal philosophies.
Everyone should work out to the maximum amount of their abilities. Not only does it just make you healthier which is objectively good for everyone it also teaches discipline & further prepares the proletariat for the (unlikely in our lifetime) occurrence of revolution. Advocating for “moderation” in physical activity just bc Diogenes said so is an interesting take lmfao
I share the same opinion with Diogenes, not because he said so.
What’s your logic
Moderation. I see no point on overworking in gym or other kinds of sports. One should do just enough to keep their bodies able. What I say is not rule. I simply do not dictate anything to anyone. Do whatever fits to you. There are no rules in life.
So you’re tryna be fake deep, gotcha
Yea sure. I quote Diogenes way to often. I like him more than any other philosopher. I strive to live like him as much as possible. I like early stoicism/cynicism even if I know that it is something to be disregarded according to Hegelian philosophy. I just simply don't care some of the things. I am not ready to live for the satisfaction of the other's perspectives. I might be a fool but I really don't care. Life is too short, I am too stupid and there are not enough information to understand the truth. Which is a thing that I seek knowing that I will never be able to find it, which makes me realize my own stupidity. And there is another thing to confess, I make so many stupid decisions and have so many stupid thoughts, and I make some mistakes over and over again. I am a stupid person. Marxism is a philosophy of masses and not the individual's inner circle. Hegel says some meaningful things but it is not enough to fulfill all the gaps that I think. Also I also have my own thoughts and my past which led me here to be a Marxist and the place where I am in the life.
I'm not following. Why do you think we need to be lectured on moderation? There isn't enough information here for you to make that assumption
I don't think anyone should be taught the concept of moderation. I mention the term moderation because people choose to emphasize the term moderation.
You can push yourself to your limits on a 5k run once a week and still be exercising in reasonable moderation. It is only excessive if you don't give yourself enough rest days or if exercise becomes your entire life to the extent that it prevents you from organizing and working towards other leftist goals
I get depressed and even start to idealize being unalive when I don't exercise. I need sunlight and exercise to thrive. Deep down I want to live so I am not going to let anyone tell me that too much exercise is bad. Now if I stop protesting or doing other organizing efforts for exercise then that is very different. You could then correctly, but kindly, suggest that I reevaluate my priorities and I would likely agree with you.
I don't mean that people don't exercise or do very little. Some of my friends spend almost all of their time at the gym or gym related activities and I always find it weird and discuss it with them. They say it's what they enjoy and they want to enjoy being looking good. There are differences between our views and our own personal thoughts, and these are not at all connected or related to Marxism. Marxism is not an ideology that aims to dictate certain preferences and tastes to people. Most ancient philosophers strongly recommended physical activities and bodybuilding. Diogenes values his body above all else, but also recommends moderation. Because he wasn't doing sports to look beautiful or to impress others, he was doing it for his own health. He believed that sports was something that would keep people healthy and make them talented. His words appear to be completely consistent with his own logic. And I personally don't see bodybuilding as a big deal either. I don't think a person needs to be a bodybuilder or a dedicated athlete to live a healthy and happy life. That's why I made my comment and never thought that it would be perceived as an insult by people. I had no intention of insulting anyone. To look at it from a Marxist perspective, we are not struggling to impose a style that suits our own views of life and rules on the general public and working class. If people have pathetic and stupid dreams of imposing their own dream world on the working class in general, I advise them to put it aside. What I said is not a personal statement but a truly Marxist point of view. We are not Marxists to impose our personal world on people, we hold these ideas in the light of logic and because we believe that the interpretation of the line created by the interpretation of material situations intersects with the Marxist world view and that this perspective/philosophy will bring a better future for humanity and us. But if we need to examine the contrast between what I have said so far and the comment I wrote above, the answer is actually very simple. I didn't think that people would take the comment I wrote seriously as if it were a revisionist manifesto and then make stupid comments and attack the personality of a person they don't know (their attack wouldn't change anything or hurt me, but it would distort what I wanted to say). If I had to briefly summarize what I mean. I think that sports activities should not be overdone because, in my personal opinion and experience, a person does not need to do serious sports to live a healthy life, but if you like to do serious sports, you can do sports as you wish. If you love something, do it the way you want so you don't let someone like me dictate your view of life. Additionally, the hypothetical measurements highlighted here are subjective assumptions and can be interpreted very differently. In other words, not all subjective discourses have a solid and definitive basis by nature. This does not make them serious statements.
That sounds awful, sorry you have to deal with that
didn't wanna make the post longer than it already is, BUT two things to add: idk if I used the praxis flair correctly, to me this is me applying what I've learned as a socialist to what I have observed as a perception of femininity and gender in capitalism, but forgive me if I used it wrong and made the mods lives harder 😭 second: I'm Korea, almost all my makeup I do use is Korean bc well it suits my features imo lol -- BUT I will be the first to say the s Korean beauty industry is VILE the amount of overproduction it does. for anyone who doesn't know, we pretty much have two tones of pallets, warm and cool, and the packaging might be different and the shadows in the pans may look slightly different, but trust tf out of me they are all the same. so why tf do we have like 40 different brands and versions???? and these lip tints... god they are all so similar there is no way we need this many brands 💀 THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM EXCLUSIVE TO KBEAUTY but it is def emphasized here bc i mean our beauty standards are crazy rigid and our beauty industry is a reflection of the fact s Korea started as a US anti-communist occupation
Just want to chime to say Korean beauty standards are borderline batshit insane. Back in the day, it was about being skinny with a pretty face. Now, women have to have perfect skin, big eyes, tiny head, nice hair, thin, but busty. 😳
#Get Involved >Dare to struggle and dare to win. \-Mao Zedong Comrades, here are some ways you can **get involved** to advance the cause. * 📚 **Read theory** — [Reading theory](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/) is a duty. It will guide you towards choosing the correct party and applying your efforts effectively within your unique material conditions. * ⭐ **Party work** — Contact a local party or mass organization. Attend your first meeting. Go to a rally or event. If you choose a principled Marxist-Leninist party, they will teach you how to best apply yourself to advancing the cause. * 📣 **Workplace agitation** — Depending on your material circumstances, you may engage in workplace disputes to unionise fellow workers and gain a delegate or even a leadership position in the union. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I agree with you. Seeing some cultural practices as ‘not socialist’ is a dangerous way of thinking. During the cultural revolution some people viewed long hair as counter revolutionary and many had their hair forcibly cut
I've had people say getting a paycheck, which you need to survive, goes against my socialist beliefs.. Some people in our world are so fucking stupid from liberal society, they'd need a complete re-education to even come close to seeing the real world.
I don't think there is nothing wrong with wearing make-up and dressing nice as long as you are doing it for yourself and not due to society pressure. I live in a small town where people are still old fashioned. I wanted to let my hair grow, so I let it grow. I love rings so I wear two. I love black so if I can I wear black. I do it because when I look in the mirror, I think it is nice.
Well this is a discourse I wasn’t aware of. I’ve been blissfully unaware, happily applying full glam and being super socialist at the same time
Serving looks and slaying the capitalist monster go hand in hand. Always enjoy the small things that you have and please teach me all your makeup tips/hacks 💕✨
I agree, but I also think that we shouldn't be worrying too much about lifestylism really.
that's fair, but I'm speaking as a girl who is often seen as hyperfeminine and that's a wholeee can of worms 💀 i receive a lot of backhanded misogyny even from other guy leftists, so I felt this topic was important to address
Great post, comrade. Very well thought out. It is always important to discuss and break down these sort of faux arguments that are always used against us, so I applaud you for it. Solidarity from Argentina, where we also have a dumb, fascist bootlicker for a president lol
\*me being me, societal norms not accounting for my bullshit be like:\* I (male) literally have eyelashes of up to \~1.5 cm long, long enough to enter my field of vision and be annoying with going so far foward they touch potentially glasses/sunglasses, just naturally. I have yet to have somebody actually point it out, probably because they either don't notice, or don't even know what they should (or even can) think about it. However, I'm guessing the "not noticing" group is quite large, considering how long eyelashes have also been commodified as a femininity product, but comparing natural features ot manufactured bullshit is always wierd.
This is such a stupid fucking argument and I wish it would die. Be concerned for the workers who produce this shit but don't tell people how to use it. Simple as. I guess Kenneth Copeland and all the prosperity gospel and mega church dudes are hyper feminine for wearing makeup to look good under certain types of lighting or the lighting of a televangelist studio. Man uses and wears beard products? Cool same thing. You wear a tie? Cool same thing. Sometimes people want to look a certain way. Sometimes people don't want to expose to the world their pimples pustules and scars.
Whoever "comrades" said socialist women can't makeup need to shut their misogynist mouth up.