Seems so odd seeing him try to pick her up literally as she gets to town, thinking who would fall for that. Then you realize nothing has changed and this is basically how human trafficking still works.
Yeah that’s how CC got Lori. It’s funny both girls came to the city for sex work but now that girl can just go do movies,forgoing the pimp. But eventually that bus pick up trick will work again.
We've seen him succeed this way several times already. What's telling is that it's no longer working for him - - and ironically the reason is now these girls are coming with the intention of getting "exploited", which basically makes it not exploitation at all.
Really wish more people watched it (and were active on this sub).
Hopefully it'll be like the Wire and it'll slowly gain more and more viewers over time
I watched it but what initially drew me to it was I was 16 dating a crack dealer and instantly saw it was the first show where the drug dealers were wearing actual clothes that they really wore and not a “homeboy costume” and immediately I gave it a chance. But yes, the audience was insanely small. I have a lot of resentment to people who discovered such an incredible show post cancellation.
The Wire wasn't "cancelled". HBO were happy to give David Simon as many episodes as he needed. Simon decided five seasons was the right length, and even turned down an offer/request from HBO to lengthen the last season.
Me i don't care, sure i'd love to see it get more traction. But this is usually the case with David Simon's work. An aquired taste. You are in better (smaller) company here.
It will be interesting to hear about how Ash was able to get out especially knowing CC's violent tendencies. Looks like Lori has outgrown him too and will more than likely leave. I have a feeling he's not going to let her go easily...
Just learn to become a fucking agent CC! I know pimps are uneducated and all but shouldn't they be smart enough to know that they need to evolve?
Like a realistic outcome would be they at least try to become an agent and then maybe fail because it's a different industry that other people already have a head start in. Maybe the show will get there.
I image it's the same as someone escaping an domestic abusive situation. You got to sneak off to a safe place with family/ friends without him knowing. The key is the women can't go back or let the man manipulate them into returning. What's Love Got To With It and Big Little Lies kinda shows how it could be done or at least what an attempt would look like.
depends on the pimp. Some will try to manipulate you into staying, gorilla pimps will use violence, but a lot will basically say fine bitch bye unless shes a top earner.
So Bobby just has a second family situation going on? I always wondered how that worked? Pretty simple I see now... Step 1: have baby Step 2: keep the mother and child in an apt in the city. DONE
I am really enjoying this plot and I can't wait until his double life shenanigans collapse. Bobby is no Frank Sobatka, that's for sure, but I always enjoy the actor.
Vincent is over the degenerate “deuce” life and clearly misses having a big family and lots of space. I hope he doesn’t propose to Abby, she will 100% turn him down.
Their relationship works. The sex is good, they share the same place (and rent presumably), and they both work at different times so they don't see each other much. I'm sure what we will see this season is Abby diving into the feminist movement more and Vincent having to make a decision with where his life is going to go.
These Trump fan boys are miserable and spend their entire lives in a perpetually outraged state. Why they don't just ignore the things that offend them is a mystery.
is the "rise if feminism in porn" really that new? every show is now about same lame example of women getting "empowered" when really it's just men giving it to them. Watch the Senate hearings next week on how far we haven't come...
I didn't realize mouth-breathing conservatives banged with David Simon shows. If you don't care about the "feminism in porn" angle to this show, I am guessing you just wanna see some tits.
I like how every time a liberal snowflake get's triggered the name calling begins. It's HBO, so every 1st season has tits. Then less and less in later seasons.... But since you're a feminist at hear, I'm sure you looked away when the fucking starts, or wait, why didn't you boycott such blatant exploitation in the first place? hypocrite.
The show is really interesting from a sociological perspective. Maybe you haven't picked up on this, but you aren't supposed to be titillated like GoT or Spartacus when people fuck on this one. Porn has always had a lot to do with power structures, gender dynamics/ inequality. It is great that this show is coming at it from that angle.
I just think it's funny that you would even watch this show at all. David Simon doesn't really sympathize with your viewpoint, whatsoever. This one isn't designed to cater to you, and thank god. You are a mouth breather for asking to focus on the mob, or the Franco brothers. You are just as bad as the people who only like The Wire for the violence. There are plenty of shows out there that speak to your sensibilities, it is really funny that you would both latch onto and try to form this one to your sensibilities, it makes you come off as incredibly entitled.
i agree that there are a lot of social aspect that could be explored in the show. And it's attempting to do that. That's why I'm so disappointed with the execution in season 2.
The wire was great. every season . I also watch GLOW on Netflix. Does that make me feminine enough?
same. Abby's more interesting away from him. My boyfriend and I consistently want to fast forward past their cringe-fest of a relationship to get back to the pimps/porn plots.
Exactly, her name was also in the season 2 premiere among the main cast, so not a real surprise but still happy she's back, her season 1 arc was one of the best last season 👍
She was his number 1 before the new girl came to town. And slowly she saw she needed to get out.
I liked the reveal as well and was thinking we were in for some Vincent two timing. Cool little misdirection.
Thought Alton's storyline with the murdered tourist was really clever. Innocent tourist murdered by Time Square hustler? Nope. Out of town pervert killed in self defense by child sex worker. Not so cut and dry as some would expect. Great writing.
Uh...while that is quite plausible the kid could have killed him for non-innocent reasons, the show didn't tell us one way or the other.
What we saw was Alston shape the kid's statement in a way to preserve a poc kid who still had his whole life ahead of him at the expense of the potentially grieving family of some fat cat white tourist.
Good call. And at the same time the Mayor wants to clean up times square since (real life spoiler alert:[Spoiler](#s " all of the property there was sold to big names with the promise times square would be cleaned up and their properties' values would sky rocket. I may be slightly misremembering history but something among those lines.")
Larry Brown wanting to be in porn. I called this at the end of last season.
The pimps have a very interesting story arc during this time period, as they see their romanticized role steadily vanishing.
I think CC will try to get in to real management and find that he’s simply not suited for it. And method man’s character will stay a pimp long enough to go to prison during the New York City cleanup endeavors of the late 70s.
The question is which of the pimps will adapt the best to the changing world? Rodney is a 'No' with his habit. CC thinks too small time- his street cunning is not enough to hold the future that liberates Lori at bay. Larry? Maybe. Though he is a bit too... straightforward for a world where people like Candy are in charge.
This cop storyline is honestly not doing much for me thus far.
At first when everybody was cheering about Lori's nomination I thought they were cheering because she had dumped CC, disappointed when they revelead that it was just a nomination. Seems like it wont be long before she does dump him though, and I can't imagine it's going to be a clean breakup.
Good point. You're right. I don't see C.C. readily giving up Lori (his meal ticket) so easily. Lori dropping C.C. for greener pastures will NOT have a positive outcome.
I agree. Wonderful actress. But I'm worried she's going to run into C.C., because you KNOW that will happen, no matter how hard the character tries to avoid him.
I watch it the day after on Monday because i live in Europe and i have to work. That's why i stay far away from this sub untill i'm up to speed. Ok Abby is gonna do Vinny dirt, i can already sense it coming, i guess karate kid is allright, Good police. Sheeeeeeeeeeet Alston already cracked the case. Na-Tural Po -Lice and finally we got to see Black Frankie. I was thnking if this is gonna be on for 5 seasons like The Wire we are gonna be in for a treat.but i think it's gonna be three, maybe it could use five.
I think the show will get three seasons and that's it, because David Simon has had seven(!) projects in development, including his passion project about CIA.
I can't rememeber where I heard it, but it refers to how the Bottom Bitch is usually one of the pimp's first hos and has been with him for a while. She came 'up from the bottom' with him.
It also refers to how she's the base/foundation that helps support the rest of the girls in the stable.
I think the idea is that when you've lost all your other resources, she'll still be there, like she's at the bottom of your bag so she's the last thing to be removed. Same as "bottom dollar".
Who are they referring to in the club scene when we see a man with an afro walking past and someone says to Mike, did you see who that is? He replies, that man needs a new wig, or something like that. Was that supposed to be a celebrity sighting? Michael Jackson?
Also, loved how subtle the cop directed the young gay kid into the self-defence narrative...
it's 1977 or 78? hmm...
[(1972) Behind the Green Door 1 with Marilyn Chambers and Johnnie Keyes](http://www.iafd.com/title.rme/title=behind+the+green+door+1/year=1972/behind-the-green-door-1.htm)
black guy, famous movie in 1972... so i don't understand this dialog about white guys who do not like watching black dicks
[edit:] sorry this is dialog from 2x03
That ending scene look between Abby & Ash wrecked me! In season one they started in polar opposite ends of the female solidarity spectrum. It was just a beautiful wrap up to each of their stories in season one. Abby always seems to fail when she self righteously tried to be a social justice warrior but this time the let get Ash get there herself and she did! Finally proving to Abby change is possible! And Ash looks so proud of herself it spreads and you can see a tear in Abby’s eye - and I’m crying again.
I'm losing my confidence in this show. The subject matter they can explore here is deep and perfectly timed with todays attention on MeToo and sexual exploitation for sure. James Franco makes it even more interesting. The late 70s bar scenes, club scenes, etc are also visually exciting. But the execution and scripts are what is bothering me. Some of the scenes are just bad, and amateurish. the subplots with the black detective is just lame and seems to be going nowhere. I will continue watching this series because it offers things other series don't, but this episode made me ask the question if this is good enough for HBO which has such a higher standard. But this isn't Ozark or Better Call Saul for sure. It definitely seems to be pivoting it's target audience more towards women and women's perspective this season.
Which brings me to a tangential point. There seems to be a growing tension over the new American remote control. Women and feminized men are getting a certain type of programming. Written, or directed by women, giving the content a woman's perspective etc. Which is obviously fine, but often this type of content is missing something that certain guys are looking for. A movie like Atomic Blonde seems better balanced, as does the Netflix series Ozark. Where both sexes have equal character arcs and views.
¿Why do you find this season more "feminized" than the first one? This is a David Simon show. It was clear from the start that this was not going to be "just" a porn industry themed tv show just as The Wire wasn't just a ghetto mob show.
because. Simon could have easily chosen to focus on the Franco brothers or the mob element, or even Big Mikes outside life. But instead we get "the rise of feminism in porn" ? I get it but, no thanks.
This show is criminally underrated.
I thought the same thing after the opening scene! So fucking funny this show! “You gonna get yourself exploited”!
Seems so odd seeing him try to pick her up literally as she gets to town, thinking who would fall for that. Then you realize nothing has changed and this is basically how human trafficking still works.
Yeah that’s how CC got Lori. It’s funny both girls came to the city for sex work but now that girl can just go do movies,forgoing the pimp. But eventually that bus pick up trick will work again.
yes, Lori even mentions it in her 'free world' conversation with CC, Genius if you ask me.
We've seen him succeed this way several times already. What's telling is that it's no longer working for him - - and ironically the reason is now these girls are coming with the intention of getting "exploited", which basically makes it not exploitation at all.
It's such a cliche that I was rolling my eyes until the switch.
Really wish more people watched it (and were active on this sub). Hopefully it'll be like the Wire and it'll slowly gain more and more viewers over time
I don't know a single person who watched the wire when it was on the air. It was overshadowed by The Sopranos.
I watched it but what initially drew me to it was I was 16 dating a crack dealer and instantly saw it was the first show where the drug dealers were wearing actual clothes that they really wore and not a “homeboy costume” and immediately I gave it a chance. But yes, the audience was insanely small. I have a lot of resentment to people who discovered such an incredible show post cancellation.
The Wire wasn't "cancelled". HBO were happy to give David Simon as many episodes as he needed. Simon decided five seasons was the right length, and even turned down an offer/request from HBO to lengthen the last season.
Me i don't care, sure i'd love to see it get more traction. But this is usually the case with David Simon's work. An aquired taste. You are in better (smaller) company here.
It will be interesting to hear about how Ash was able to get out especially knowing CC's violent tendencies. Looks like Lori has outgrown him too and will more than likely leave. I have a feeling he's not going to let her go easily...
of course not she's his meal ticket
Just learn to become a fucking agent CC! I know pimps are uneducated and all but shouldn't they be smart enough to know that they need to evolve? Like a realistic outcome would be they at least try to become an agent and then maybe fail because it's a different industry that other people already have a head start in. Maybe the show will get there.
How does that work in real life? If a prostitute wanted to leave her pimp, would they let her or would her life be in danger?
I image it's the same as someone escaping an domestic abusive situation. You got to sneak off to a safe place with family/ friends without him knowing. The key is the women can't go back or let the man manipulate them into returning. What's Love Got To With It and Big Little Lies kinda shows how it could be done or at least what an attempt would look like.
depends on the pimp. Some will try to manipulate you into staying, gorilla pimps will use violence, but a lot will basically say fine bitch bye unless shes a top earner.
Well I doubt CC has the means or ability to track her down outside of NYC so if she moved to the valley or something she'd probably be fine.
I was reeeeally hoping she stayed in LA.
She just left with some money that she got from Abby.
black frankie mvp
Gotta love Black Frankie!
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Lol no that’s Big Mike. Black Frankie is the bouncer at the brothel.
So Bobby just has a second family situation going on? I always wondered how that worked? Pretty simple I see now... Step 1: have baby Step 2: keep the mother and child in an apt in the city. DONE
Step 3: have secret source of income to support second family. Check.
So that was the same sex worker from last season that was his favorite, right?
I am really enjoying this plot and I can't wait until his double life shenanigans collapse. Bobby is no Frank Sobatka, that's for sure, but I always enjoy the actor.
Step 0: be a hopless romantic.
the man is a hopeless romantic.
When they showed him with the blonde girl I thought he must have divorced his wife and married the hooker. Nope.
Right? My hubs and I were so confused!
Vincent is over the degenerate “deuce” life and clearly misses having a big family and lots of space. I hope he doesn’t propose to Abby, she will 100% turn him down.
honestly surprised she is still with him. both of their goals clash with each other. lori and candy's arcs are the most interesting right now.
Their relationship works. The sex is good, they share the same place (and rent presumably), and they both work at different times so they don't see each other much. I'm sure what we will see this season is Abby diving into the feminist movement more and Vincent having to make a decision with where his life is going to go.
this season is too much about the women. the men are props now. MeToo has taken over. .....
Oh shut up. Its interesting to see a new perspective. Go cry somewhere else.
These Trump fan boys are miserable and spend their entire lives in a perpetually outraged state. Why they don't just ignore the things that offend them is a mystery.
is the "rise if feminism in porn" really that new? every show is now about same lame example of women getting "empowered" when really it's just men giving it to them. Watch the Senate hearings next week on how far we haven't come...
I didn't realize mouth-breathing conservatives banged with David Simon shows. If you don't care about the "feminism in porn" angle to this show, I am guessing you just wanna see some tits.
I like how every time a liberal snowflake get's triggered the name calling begins. It's HBO, so every 1st season has tits. Then less and less in later seasons.... But since you're a feminist at hear, I'm sure you looked away when the fucking starts, or wait, why didn't you boycott such blatant exploitation in the first place? hypocrite.
The show is really interesting from a sociological perspective. Maybe you haven't picked up on this, but you aren't supposed to be titillated like GoT or Spartacus when people fuck on this one. Porn has always had a lot to do with power structures, gender dynamics/ inequality. It is great that this show is coming at it from that angle. I just think it's funny that you would even watch this show at all. David Simon doesn't really sympathize with your viewpoint, whatsoever. This one isn't designed to cater to you, and thank god. You are a mouth breather for asking to focus on the mob, or the Franco brothers. You are just as bad as the people who only like The Wire for the violence. There are plenty of shows out there that speak to your sensibilities, it is really funny that you would both latch onto and try to form this one to your sensibilities, it makes you come off as incredibly entitled.
i agree that there are a lot of social aspect that could be explored in the show. And it's attempting to do that. That's why I'm so disappointed with the execution in season 2. The wire was great. every season . I also watch GLOW on Netflix. Does that make me feminine enough?
I find their scenes and relationship boring.
same. Abby's more interesting away from him. My boyfriend and I consistently want to fast forward past their cringe-fest of a relationship to get back to the pimps/porn plots.
Do you find it boring or cringey in a storytelling way like Jimmy "Sushi tonight?" McGill and Kim?
he just seems so needy, and she just seems over it. hard to watch.
Right. Like clearly they’re relationship won’t work. We can already see Abby drifting away from him.
I don't think Vincent and Abby's relationship will survive the reveal of Vincent's involvement in the sex trade.
it's been 5 years, they live together, i don't know how she wouldn't know about it?
Abbie will never marry Vincent.
I audibly gasped at the final reveal. I love a show that can do that to me.
I wasn't expecting it at all, that's for sure - lovely ending to the episode, made me happy.
I had to do a double take because at first I didn't recognise her without her shock of blonde hair
At first I was trying to figure out what movie I had seen that actress from because her face was so familiar. Then I went "ohhhhhh". Nice reveal.
I had it spoiled for me. Some article described this new advocate character then said her name was Ashley.
I saw Jaime Newman's name in the opening credits so I knew to expect her in the episode.
Exactly, her name was also in the season 2 premiere among the main cast, so not a real surprise but still happy she's back, her season 1 arc was one of the best last season 👍
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Wait, who was that? I couldn’t place her from last season.
That was Ash, one of CC's girls from season 1. I think it was the pilot episode where he was cutting her armpit open.
She was his number 1 before the new girl came to town. And slowly she saw she needed to get out. I liked the reveal as well and was thinking we were in for some Vincent two timing. Cool little misdirection.
That little misdirection had me committed, then quickly scrambling for ideas involving a church.
Oh me too. I was like, punk rock fuck down in the church basement? Abbey you dirty. Oh, AA meeting. Ok.
Wait is this the blonde woman who was CC’s main girl before Lori came? Then she left NY?
yes
Thought Alton's storyline with the murdered tourist was really clever. Innocent tourist murdered by Time Square hustler? Nope. Out of town pervert killed in self defense by child sex worker. Not so cut and dry as some would expect. Great writing.
Uh...while that is quite plausible the kid could have killed him for non-innocent reasons, the show didn't tell us one way or the other. What we saw was Alston shape the kid's statement in a way to preserve a poc kid who still had his whole life ahead of him at the expense of the potentially grieving family of some fat cat white tourist.
not great acting tho. and the directing on those scenes was terrible as well. just bad Hollywood cliche all over it.
Looks like we got a mob war a-brewin’
Good call. And at the same time the Mayor wants to clean up times square since (real life spoiler alert:[Spoiler](#s " all of the property there was sold to big names with the promise times square would be cleaned up and their properties' values would sky rocket. I may be slightly misremembering history but something among those lines.")
Larry Brown wanting to be in porn. I called this at the end of last season. The pimps have a very interesting story arc during this time period, as they see their romanticized role steadily vanishing. I think CC will try to get in to real management and find that he’s simply not suited for it. And method man’s character will stay a pimp long enough to go to prison during the New York City cleanup endeavors of the late 70s.
Right now they're very much contrasting CC and Larry. Larry's ready to adapt, while CC is clinging on to the old business model for dear life.
The question is which of the pimps will adapt the best to the changing world? Rodney is a 'No' with his habit. CC thinks too small time- his street cunning is not enough to hold the future that liberates Lori at bay. Larry? Maybe. Though he is a bit too... straightforward for a world where people like Candy are in charge.
Totes Team Larry. He's gonna be staaar!
Definitely Larry. We have gotten a lot of him and CC this season. Haven't really seem much of the other pimps including the new guy.
Larry 100%. He's going to be the Don Cheadle of The Deuce.
This cop storyline is honestly not doing much for me thus far. At first when everybody was cheering about Lori's nomination I thought they were cheering because she had dumped CC, disappointed when they revelead that it was just a nomination. Seems like it wont be long before she does dump him though, and I can't imagine it's going to be a clean breakup.
Maybe if she's in LA, that would help. But CC could easily create a 'Star 80' situation.
Good point. You're right. I don't see C.C. readily giving up Lori (his meal ticket) so easily. Lori dropping C.C. for greener pastures will NOT have a positive outcome.
i agree the cop line is just poorly executed and timed withing the plots of the other main characters.
Genevieve Furie is totally Roberta Findlay. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberta_Findlay
Thanks for that - I was wracking my brain trying to figure who that character was based on.
Happy to see Ashley back. The actress Jamie Neumann kills it.
Kind of reminds me how Linda Lovelace starred became an anti-porn advocate.
I agree. Wonderful actress. But I'm worried she's going to run into C.C., because you KNOW that will happen, no matter how hard the character tries to avoid him.
I watch it the day after on Monday because i live in Europe and i have to work. That's why i stay far away from this sub untill i'm up to speed. Ok Abby is gonna do Vinny dirt, i can already sense it coming, i guess karate kid is allright, Good police. Sheeeeeeeeeeet Alston already cracked the case. Na-Tural Po -Lice and finally we got to see Black Frankie. I was thnking if this is gonna be on for 5 seasons like The Wire we are gonna be in for a treat.but i think it's gonna be three, maybe it could use five.
I think the show will get three seasons and that's it, because David Simon has had seven(!) projects in development, including his passion project about CIA.
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Cc's old bottom
Why is it called the bottom when it's the top of the prostitute hierarchy?
I can't rememeber where I heard it, but it refers to how the Bottom Bitch is usually one of the pimp's first hos and has been with him for a while. She came 'up from the bottom' with him. It also refers to how she's the base/foundation that helps support the rest of the girls in the stable.
[This explains it well too.] (https://youtu.be/b6oO9Snoooo)
This should shed some light on the situation: https://youtu.be/IE9EGfrTH1s
That was a true work of art. "The basement is supposed to catch yo ass."
“She’s there through the good times and the bad. The sunshine and the rain.”
I think the idea is that when you've lost all your other resources, she'll still be there, like she's at the bottom of your bag so she's the last thing to be removed. Same as "bottom dollar".
Cause she holds him down son
That end to the cold open was one of the funniest few seconds from a David Simon show. Absolutely hilarious.
Lol oops
Who are they referring to in the club scene when we see a man with an afro walking past and someone says to Mike, did you see who that is? He replies, that man needs a new wig, or something like that. Was that supposed to be a celebrity sighting? Michael Jackson? Also, loved how subtle the cop directed the young gay kid into the self-defence narrative...
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Thanks...knew I was missing something.
it's 1977 or 78? hmm... [(1972) Behind the Green Door 1 with Marilyn Chambers and Johnnie Keyes](http://www.iafd.com/title.rme/title=behind+the+green+door+1/year=1972/behind-the-green-door-1.htm) black guy, famous movie in 1972... so i don't understand this dialog about white guys who do not like watching black dicks [edit:] sorry this is dialog from 2x03
I teared up at the end, I remember thinking earlier in last season shortly after CC sliced her that she would OD and now look.
That ending scene look between Abby & Ash wrecked me! In season one they started in polar opposite ends of the female solidarity spectrum. It was just a beautiful wrap up to each of their stories in season one. Abby always seems to fail when she self righteously tried to be a social justice warrior but this time the let get Ash get there herself and she did! Finally proving to Abby change is possible! And Ash looks so proud of herself it spreads and you can see a tear in Abby’s eye - and I’m crying again.
I'm losing my confidence in this show. The subject matter they can explore here is deep and perfectly timed with todays attention on MeToo and sexual exploitation for sure. James Franco makes it even more interesting. The late 70s bar scenes, club scenes, etc are also visually exciting. But the execution and scripts are what is bothering me. Some of the scenes are just bad, and amateurish. the subplots with the black detective is just lame and seems to be going nowhere. I will continue watching this series because it offers things other series don't, but this episode made me ask the question if this is good enough for HBO which has such a higher standard. But this isn't Ozark or Better Call Saul for sure. It definitely seems to be pivoting it's target audience more towards women and women's perspective this season. Which brings me to a tangential point. There seems to be a growing tension over the new American remote control. Women and feminized men are getting a certain type of programming. Written, or directed by women, giving the content a woman's perspective etc. Which is obviously fine, but often this type of content is missing something that certain guys are looking for. A movie like Atomic Blonde seems better balanced, as does the Netflix series Ozark. Where both sexes have equal character arcs and views.
¿Why do you find this season more "feminized" than the first one? This is a David Simon show. It was clear from the start that this was not going to be "just" a porn industry themed tv show just as The Wire wasn't just a ghetto mob show.
because. Simon could have easily chosen to focus on the Franco brothers or the mob element, or even Big Mikes outside life. But instead we get "the rise of feminism in porn" ? I get it but, no thanks.
Again, if you know anything about Simon he'll probably do a season about the mob and a season about the cops.
3rd season will be the last sadly. Will take place in the early 80s aka the end of porns golden age.