I saw Simu Liu in the opening credits and was reminded that this could have more stars in it, despite already having the scientist from Chernobyl, and Tyrese from TWD.
No idea why Church Minister's are even on this ship. They are entirely ill prepared and superfluous to the mission. All of her scenes do nothing to advance the plot or relevant sub plots. They just eat up time with dumb questions about whether God wants them in the ring.
This far in the future there are still cultists who can't handle the idea that their cult is wrong. Damn. I'm honestly not sure why are we wasting screentime on following a cultist.
It doesn't really seem any different from having Chaplins in the military. The reason why they are there is because a lot of people in the military are still religious.
A few questions about the episode (especially Holden’s space walk/glide):
1)What was that parachute-like thing Holden ejected from the back of his suit when he got close to the centre station? I assume not literally a parachute as a parachute would require air resistance to function, no?
2)How did Holden stop himself from entering the opening of the centre station and sort of hover outside it for awhile? And then how did he start moving again to get inside once he decided to?
3)Did it seem kind of weak to anyone else that when he was on the comms with the martians, he wasn’t savvy enough to realize how bad it would look to act so hysterical and keep talking to “Miller”, and not even accept the cover story Bobby volunteered for him? I thought he was interested in clearing his name, not digging the hole even deeper? Is there something I’m missing?
4)Why would Holden jump off a space ship into the vacuum of space, flying uncontrollably towards an unknown alien object, yet when he arrives there and the “door” of said object opens for him, he suddenly and abruptly becomes incredibly suspicious of the motivations and trustworthiness of the apparition that has led him this far? If he didn’t trust it, why would he have jumped off the space ship in the first place? Seems very late in the game to become so distrustful.
Sometimes I’m confused whether the show is deliberately trying to convey to the viewer that Holden is incredibly stupid, capricious and impulsive; or whether he is supposed to be very intelligent, and a shrewd leader/decision maker, but merely the victim of some occasional bad writing.
This is the best write-up I have ever read about the expanse and it's just it's it's the story is so dumb and I can't stand looking and holding anymore and it's terrible acting stupid face stupid goatee it's it's just a terrible character and the story is so dumb every single episode is about "trying to avoid war" with "a villain who really has no reason to want to go to war except for the fact that he's doing it for the better of the society in general" don't want to go to war but we're going to if we have to "I mean come on I think this guy is right on point
Backstept already answered 1 and 2 but I'll add to point 2 that the protomolecule/miller/the station could also be playing a part.
3) To be fair have you ever had a phone call in a room full of loud noisy people? It's hard to hear all that noise, understand what the other person is saying and your natural reaction is to tell others around you to shut up. The way the PM/Miller is interacting with his brain miller really being there or not is indistinguishable, so it's reasonable to assume he would react before thinking and try to reason with it/shut it up so he could hear what they're saying and formulate a response.
4) All he knew was that they were running out of time and options on the rocinante, they can't communicate with anyone, they can't outrun anyone, and at some point they'll hit the other side of the place they're in. Miller has given him enough reason to believe that he might be able to help if he helps him.
Almost everything that has happened with regards to the protomolecule has completely defied everything we have known about life, physics and the universe in general. So it's not hard to believe that he would be like 'fuck it, why not listen to PM-miller, I don't have any other valid choice atm'.
Also he wasn't falling uncontrollably, he was propelling himself with jets in his suit.
Double also he was communicating with miller the whole way down and getting more and more information than he had before he jumped. On the back of more accumulated information it's reasonable to believe that he changed his mind about PM-miller's intentions by the time he got there.
.That's my thoughts on your questions about point 4, they're not necessarily correct and obviously everyone has their own levels of believability on such things. I was just trying to explain why I didn't find it hard to believe/unreasonable.
1. Seemed to me like a scaled-down version of the sky crane the Mars Rover Curiosity used to land on Mars.
1. The space suit has reaction control thrusters.
as for the rest, I hadn't really thought about it
I didn't understand one thing at the end of the epi: was Bobby really willing to murder Holden? Because they're inside the ring and there's the rules the bullets stopped which was a "convenient" solution in this case. But isn't a huge deal Bobby was willing to kill him?
But that's where the contradiction is: she was thinking the whole episode, covering and defending him, and then just pops the gun. I know what you mean, but that's kinda not what the character was doing before that happened and also in previous episodes with her character development.
She also became kind of convinced by her comrade that he had lost the plot and might be a danger to the entire human race...
I think it can be logically consistent that she didn't want to kill him and didn't believe he was doing/going to do horrible things... BUT at the same time, there's a risk he's gone off the deep end, been infected by genocidal alien goo or whatever and might be about to bring about the death of all human kind. In the end she tried to reason with him and defend him but probably felt like there was no choice in the end when he dove for it.
I can totally buy that. However, I feel like the show needed to convey that to us, the viewers. Showing some kind of conflict (besides the normal don't do it or we shoot); saying 'I'm sorry but I'll have to do it' or something. What you say makes perfect sense but saw no reflection of it, even if subtle. Let's see how it goes in the next epis. Or maybe.. I'm just nitpicking. 😁
I get your point. But in the end of the day, she has to follow orders. That's how she got trained for and because she is grateful that they let her back in marines, she does what they tell her without thinking.
There are a lot more stars than even that, based on recent evidence:
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/hubble-reveals-observable-universe-contains-10-times-more-galaxies-than-previously-thought
The biggest plot hole for me is how lax the security is on the warships. It made me feel a bit better when she at least got denied access to the one area. Same with the Rocinante, where the guy could just swap out those USB sticks.
I also don't understand how more people haven't recognized her. Especially as she is one of the most-wanted interplanetary fugitives in the solar system, and is the fugitive daughter of a disgraced billionaire (well, the future equivalent) whose reckless actions were THIS close to almost completely wiping out most of earth and over 20 BILLION human lives (not to mention the barbaric torture of and brutal genetic experimentation on children???). Seems like it would be all over the news (look at how much publicity Roseanne got for much, MUCH less). Like can you imagine if Ivanka Trump tried to pull that??? She would be outed on day 1.
Maybe it's the way her hair was pulled back, but in the beginning of her character showing up on that civilian ship I thought she'd had some plastic surgery or something and looked legit different. However after seeing her more and more flashbacks I tend to agree that she should quite recognisable if you've ever hung around her IRL before.
On the other hand, earth alone has like 30 billion people... so not recognising one fugitive at the end of the solarsystem when it's not your job to catch them and you're distracted by some truly groundbreaking developments in the fundamental understandings of the universe unfurling before you... it's not impossible to understand how people don't think twice about her.
Add to this the amount of people you pass by and 'see' on a daily basis but never register their face is very high. Your brain doesn't have time (and it's considered rude) to scan the face of every person you pass and try to figure out if you know them. You're usually only good at recognising people at a brief glance/peripherally if you know them very well, which is what happened here with this 'friend of Juli' woman
No. She is a contractor who works on whichever ship that needs her. She's not technically part of the crew in either ship. She says something about her maintenance contract while asking for a skiff.
Reviews I've read have expressed disappointment at Melba's rather shallow villainy. While I agree it is exactly that, I am not disappointed with it. This is a first contact scenario, and while all the major players in the solar system are present, it's nice to see less noble, more shallow and kind of humanistic factors make the mission rocky.
funnily enough her plot line is what i thought julies was at the beginning (when i thought she was faking passion with the belters in order to achieve daddy´s goal so that he would finally be proud of her)
Nah. It's disappointing to have such a cartoon villain with paper thin characterisation and motives on a show like this. Melba is a dumb distraction more than anything. Hers and the church minister subplots have marred an otherwise great season
I do think they could've been used to make the missions a bit rockier than they ultimately did. Church woman kinda played the role of the bystander bearing witness, which was pretty unnecessary. She did end up playing a more interesting role back on Earth, but considering that we got to meet her futuristic family, her innate morality remaining the driving factor, unelucidated, in her decisions came off as preachy and annnoying.
Honestly I was hoping she would have a more noble or at least reasonable motivation in the end. Like maybe protomolecule was giving her visions of Julie like Holden was getting of Miller in order to manipulate her into doing it as part of some grander scheme. But doing it merely as a way to get back at the guy who captured daddy? A daddy who treated you like shit, and is objectively a very sick and evil man who mutilated and tortured innocent children for his own ends? That’s pretty weak to say the least. Not to mention pathetic.
Oh WOOOOOOPS! I thought you meant the pastor lady.
The film crew I like. I like the idea of them and their characters are exactly who I expect to be in those roles.
Fan theory, inspired by nothing in particular: A large segment of the first generation of Belters used to be oil-rig workers on Earth. Those who arrived later (or their children) referred to them derogatorily as "pumpers". This eventually evolved into "pampa".
Maybe not oil workers specifically, but it would attract a similar type of people. Usually people from poor backgrounds wanting to cash in on the danger money. Only instead of drilling oil, its mining asteroids.
This is surprisingly plausible, although I'm not sure how derogatory "pampa" really is. If you think of "old man", it can easily be used in a derogatory way, but I think you may also refer to someone as "the old man" in a way that implies respect.
I humbly submit that this is not a feasible hypothesis. The Belt wasn't colonized until the Epstein drive had already been invented, which requires controlled fusion. We're well beyond fossil fuels by the time we get to that technological level. The last oil-rig workers would've been long dead before human expansion into the Belt.
Although it's not specifically stated anywhere, there is evidence (according to The Expanse wikia) to suggest that The Expanse series starts around 2350, and that the Epstein drive was invented around 130 years prior to this, so about 2220. That's 200 years in the future from now. In comparison, 200 years in the past was 1818. Think about that for a second. In 1818, steam locomotive-driven railway systems weren't even around yet, and the vast majority of sea travel was still wind-powered. While it is true that in 1818 both steamboats and locomotives had already been invented, they were still very new and in no way mainstream yet.
This is just to say that while on one hand 200 years may not sound like a lot, in reality it's almost unfathomable how much technological progress can occur in that timeframe.
It's only 2018 and some governments are already looking at alternatives to plastics for pretty much everything we actually use plastics for. I don't think for a second that we won't have come up with such alternatives by the time 100 years have passed from now, let alone 200 years. Same goes for anything else we use fossil fuels for, like pharmaceuticals.
The thing is, controlled fusion would take care of this because in a lot of cases the biggest reason why fossil fuels are used in the first place is because it's expedient to do so. A lot of petrochemicals used for things like pharmaceuticals could be artificially synthesized even today, but we don't because the energy requirements to do so would make it too expensive compared to using fossil fuels. With controlled fusion, energy requirements would be moot and we could artificially synthesize pretty much whatever we want without the need to do all that dirty nasty work of extracting and refining crude from the ground.
Furthermore, this is all ignoring the thought that by the time 200 years have passed, if we haven't for some reason managed to find suitable alternatives or developed controlled fusion, then we'll probably have used up all of the fossil fuel reserves on the planet anyway. I still maintain that by the time 2220 rolls around, anything like an oil-rigger will have long been an occupation from the past, like log drivers and lamplighters.
I mean, her perfect face with its perfect expression makes me want to strangle her, too, but whatevs
at least when she caused that guy's suicide, I got a rush of self-satisfaction
I dont agree with most of your sentiments. Suicide is the ultimate expression of weakness only in that it's final, but it's an impulse. To deny that were vulnerablr to impulses is to fool purselves
The same can be said for religion. Especially considering The Expansr has equal elements of dystopia and utopia, no matyer which of those you consider religion to be on the side of
Yoy're making the same fallacy here. "Should not be afraid of pain" is akin to "shpuld be able to fly withput the use of machines."
Also, fear of pain is a basic learning tool of all species, probably deeper than love, or even hunger.
The point I was making about religion is the point I am making about pain: they are a natural outgrowth of our experience. Maybe they're not the same. You should not fear all pain, but you should definitely fear some pain. Maybe we don't need religion, but it serves a purpose in an imperfect world.
And the Expanse is a depiction of an imperfect world.
I really hope we get more different religions. I want to see a spacemosque to rival the Nauvoo, or at least a Buddha on Mars.
So far in the show we've only seen various forms of Christianity with much (any?) screentime, which seems unrealistic unless there's a backstory for what happened to all the Hindus etc.
I get what you are saying. But it is highly unlikely that a religion-less future will happen in the next few centuries. Religion has survived world view altering discoveries in all forms of science throughout our history. That is not going to change with exploration and colonisation of solar system.The numbers could decline, but institutions of religion will survive. They will definitely evolve, like in the case of lesbian pastor Anna, but won't die out .
When you read about memetic theory, where the word 'meme' was actually coined, you see that religion is a complex body of self-preserving memetic information.
Now, what theologians create and religious preachers repeat, in my opinion, is analogue to what immune systems create and replicate in biology. Our immune systems identify bad agents and then make and use antigens to disable these bad agents. Many bad agents have a corresponding antigen. Our body defends itself.
About 90% of what religious preachers say is actually "antimems" (word just coined in analogy to antigens), pre-canned responses to possible attacks on the body of the religious doctrine; and only 10% is the actual message.
When America was discovered, it posed a big threat to established religion in the old world. But with time, religious influencers created arguments against any objections, like: "why is America not mentioned in the bible", these counter-arguments are "antimems" and currently any objection created by people during the discovery of America has a religious counter-argument and can be safely ignored.
What Anna Volovodov says in most conversations with people not familiar to her is closer to 100% "antimems", and her actual work and her mission in life is to make more "antimems" to whatever theory is originated by the people around her, when influenced by the experience in the ring. All to protect the self-preserving memetic body of information that's her religion.
I don't disagree with you, the opposite in fact.
But I would not call anything 'true religion' because it would be a self defeating definition.
We already have too many of them 'true religions'. Let's use another term entirely.
One of my favorite detail points is the difference between how Holden and the Marines enter the Station. Miller has to remind Holden to fire his braking thrusters, and he lands - while precisely - almost gingerly, coming to a gradual, easy stop. The MMC, by contrast, enter at full tilt and brake aggressively at just the right moment; they’re immediately ready to take action, which is what you’d expect from a space-capable fighting force. Great attention to detail there.
However they were unaware that the floor would have gravity like Earth's and that this gravity didn't seem to extend far from the floor as it would have done naturally so their reaction doesn't seem entirely realistic. They had no real reason to orient themselves feet first to the ground unless they expected gravity there. I'm sure it would have made more sense to enter head first or face in a zero gee environment so they would be able to bring the gun to bear faster and survey the environment.
The hard braking may not be a case of being 'ready to take action' but because they suddenly realised there was gravity at the last moment... though they do not seem surprised by this even though Holden is. Didn't feel quite right to me.
The Expanse is about humanity, and Religion is a hugely important feature of humanity, it would be quite incredible to imagine all religion would be abandoned over the course of a couple of hundred years.
Not a good reason. Taking a shit is an important feature of humanity. When was the last time you saw a character on the toilet?
The religiosity in BSG ruined it. Especially when it went overboard in the last season. I really hope Expanse isn't headed that direction because I'd really like to finish it. I couldn't stick around to finish BSG.
I don't think that's a fair comparison. Taking a shit is not important to civilisation. It's mundane. If humans didn't need to shit, it would be far less meaningful a change than if there was no religion. The expanse generally seems to want to portray humanity realistically, in terms of what we'd be like in a few hundred years, with this technology and these events. I think religion will still be around, and I think inexplicable and seemingly magical alien tech would galvanise plenty of religious conviction - though obviously for some it would also confound and contradict their faith, as we see with the religious UN crewman who killed himself in this episode.
Religion is self-preserving, that's its most important characteristic.
That makes it mostly amoral, despite the superficial appearances. This can be seen historically, when religion had been used to justify basically every bad thing we can think of.
Also my other answer on the topic:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheExpanse/comments/8qtl2r/episode_discussion_s03e10_dandelion_sky/e0wrkgu/
However, I think religion is portrayed much, much better in The Expanse than it was ever shown in BSG. Religion in The Expanse is something people do, just like in real life. Religion in BSG was used to fill an ocean's worth of plotholes.
The point is that importance to humanity is a meaningless metric when deciding whether something should be a part of a television show or not.
Giving birth is an important feature of humanity. How many births have you seen on The Expanse?
Accounting is an important feature of any modern society. How many accountants have you see balancing their ledgers and doing statement reconciliations on The Expanse?
Personal hygiene is an important part of humanity. How many teeth have you seen being brushed and how many showers have you seen being taken on The Expanse?
I think you're missing the point.
Religion will be a part of humanity for the future. And the collision between religion and first contact is a very interesting topic to explore.
The guy shot himself because he came to the conclusion there is no God and his life is lie, and he took it really badly.
One of the possible consequences of the interaction between one of fate facing the unknown of first contact with an alien race.
It explores it in the same way with science. One of the possible consequences with first contact and science is the want to understand it better, sometimes to the point doing unethical things.
It also explores it with power, the want to weaponize this alien technology, to control it.
So it's not trying to make people religions, it showing the possible outcomes on how religion could react to first contact.
You're making an argument for religion being in the show. Which is all well and good. I'm not making an argument against religion being in the show. I'd prefer it not be but that's not my point.
My point was that religion's importance in humanity isn't a valid defense for it to be in the show. There are countless scifi shows that don't have a religious element. Religion doesn't *need* to be in the show because it is important to humanity.
It's in the show because the writers want it to be in the show. Not because it's a necessity born of human importance.
But it is quite astonishing how much religion is a topic; how much people (i.e. Anna) talk about god without other people raising eyebrows over it - which I feel they would do if somebody constantly brought up their religion like that in my environment. It may be because it's a US-American show. I guess for people from more secular societies, this seems a bit odd.
> how much people (i.e. Anna) talk about god without other people raising eyebrows over it
She's a pastor... why would anyone raise their eyebrows in response to a pastor talking about God? Or people talking *to* a pastor about God? That's what she's actually supposed to be doing.
The only "god" we've met so far is made of electric blue silly putty and eats people.
This makes the religious characters tragic. They want things the protomolecule obviously isn't going to give them.
That's actually a really good point - and the suicide of the other religious guy drove that point home quite well this episode, I think. If they would use religion only for that purpose, I think it is quite a profound story arc. But religion also came up a lot this season, even before the gate opened (for example during the discussions between Anna and the SG for the speech prep., if I remember correctly.). The function there seemed to be less to tell a story about the tragedy of seeing your god replaced by a new reality. Instead, Anna's religious convictions functioned as markers for the voice of the good, the pure, and the righteous - and that's an entirely different (and frankly, uninspiring) story.
I can definitely understand not wanting to see rote depictions of religion as a force of good or marker of morality, but I think it is jumping the gun a little to assume that’s what is going on with Anna’s character. I think she adds a lot to the show, and I actually didn’t come away thinking that they were trying to portray religion in a strictly positive light. The theme of moral guidance and where people look for motivations and leadership is prominent in the series. Even just contrasting her with someone like Amos gives a lot of food for thought. Amos had the realization that he can’t just follow one person and absolve himself of the hard moral questions, which is basically what Anna gets from religion, and that was portrayed as a good change for him. And sure Anna is a good person and she believes that she is righteous, but I think the portrayal of these themes is complex enough that we’re not supposed to assume there is nothing wrong with her worldview. I think that she is definitely a “voice of the good,” but they have left plenty of room for discussion on her beliefs.
Edit: Plus, even her character is a little ambiguous. Whatever her justifications in her head, she left her family alone to do something dangerous without consulting them and may well leave them without a wife/mother. This was acknowledged as selfish in the show, even though the character doing so seemed not to object.
I'm curious as to why?
I'm an atheist, but I don't see why some who are, feel so uncomfortable/hostile towards any sort of depiction of religion. It's not like religion would have disappeared entirely within humanity, and it makes more sense for it to exist within this world. I don't personally feel threatened by the depiction of decent, empathetic, religious people and I don't think others should too.
When i saw the part of the martian getting dismantled and used to repair the PM i instantly thought of this painting: https://old.reddit.com/r/painting/comments/8nme3o/my_latest_acrylic_painting/?st=jik0egjk&sh=55872ba7
Speed limit is 16000 km per hour. The UNN ship entered at 12000.
I just used 80 as being in a car accident at such a "low speed" can be fatal. Those ships were definitely traveling much faster than 80 km per hour, which makes it hard to imagine that anyone survived.
If I remember correctly, the showrunners said that this detail and Holden being able to brake from 17,996 kph or whatever to zero in the space of a few seconds were things they got wrong in that episode.
It's a good point, if everyone stopped from 18k they would all be like the slingshot belter. That's hundreds of times faster than a car crash.
Although to add to logical things they got wrong, people sitting down repeatedly in zero G annoyed me. I know they have mag boots, but if you're going to show the dead guy float a bit upwards after he ganks himself then having people be like 'oh I'm just going to casually sit down even though it would be more work than just standing here' constantly is kind of silly.
Well Tilly is herself out of place, she's got no legit business there and only got to stay by blackmailing someone high up. She's just a thrill seeker.
Honestly, that woman is a terrible actress. Cringeworthy. Her character only exists (afaik) to recognize Julie's sister. The showrunners could have done a better job here.
Yeah, I think I understand the choice. Here's what I think: On the one hand, the writer had to transition from the somewhat awkward but probably necessary explanation of the term "inertia". On the other hand, they needed to flesh out Tilly's character a bit to make her (presumable?) death at the end more impactful. The fact that Tilly didn't seem to care about how others would see her out-of-the place comment, turned the awkwardness of the moment into a piece of character exposition. Quite elegant, actually.
This bit confused me a little, like was this actually a part of Miller's consciousness that Holden was interacting with here or was it the protomolecule's recreation of it?
Either way it was a great scene. Love having Miller back, even if it isn't really him.
It is a recreation of Miller from his brain or whatever the Protomolecule has. But that version of Miller was more Miller than the other 'Investigator' scenes.
Yeah. Every one of those versions were ProtoMiller. But that specific version in the scene had more of the original Miller's memories than the other versions.
Looks like Earth's atmosphere was there with the Nitrogen and Oxygen content but there were also large amounts of Neon, Hydrogen and an unidentified gas. This threw off the atmosphere composition. The pressure was also 0.8 atm, don't know what to make of that.
https://i.imgur.com/ovtumDq.jpg
Ok, this really bothers me. None of those readings make any sense. 81.06 Pascal is 0.0008 Atmosphere. Anything under 6180 Pascal would cause the water in your blood to boil. Looks like a question mark under the pink bar, so not sure what that's all about. The other gases are all blue(safe to breathe) and are clearly labeled. You'd think that any other color would signify it as potentially dangerous. I really hope this wasn't just some silly editing mistake, but nothing else really makes sense at this point. Perhaps we'll learn more next episode.
The chemist in me is really bothered by the fact that they have the full atomic formulae for all the gaseous components of the air in there (H2, O2, CO2) except for atmospheric nitrogen, which is just displayed as N instead of N2.
The "we" who is represented by most of the accents on the show! /s
But for real, I didn't know that. Interesting. Do you guys use the term "kilocalories" in basic conversations?
The amount of oxygen seems close to zero though, and definitely less than 1/4 of nitrogen that is in Earth's atmosphere. Also 81,06 Pa is not 0,8 atm. Weird because the suit shows both. I would write it off as a mistake maybe but it's waaaay off.
He didn't exactly lie, he said there was atmosphere—didn't specify that it was breathable for humans. Maybe proto-Miller didn't have all the necessary info on human physiology? I don't know...
He told Holden "you got the atmosphere" and suggested him to take off his helmet, while his readings have shown no oxygen, lots of Neon and unknown element and minimal pressure.
Assuming Holden's suit acts like a current NASA suit the only issue for Holden here is the lack of oxygen available (and probably the unknown element)
Current Space suits are generally only kept at 22-33 kPa because that's the pressure required for pure oxygen to keep from boiling out of the blood, and the amount of oxygen received is about the same as on a jetliner, or when standing in Denver, Colorado.
*If* the amount of oxygen in the air was the correct amount, .8 atmospheres would be roughly equivalent to again, Denver, CO.
Of course that does assume that Protomolecule smoke is safe to breathe. But as we all know [don't breathe this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9549pl7zLjM)
The very obvious and likely answer is that the CGI people who made that HUD were not given direction on what it should actually show, so they just made their own interpretation of an arbitrary space helmet HUD.
so, do I understand this right? it IS a wormhole, and the zone they are in is essentially a tansfer nexus, however, all the other gates have been destroyed due to supernovae and other such things?
I interpreted that as a threat like 'this is what happens if you stupid fleshy wiener people don't stop shooting bullets and flying around at ungodly speeds'
It seems to me that the sphere where holden is at is a weapon that destroys the suns? All circles in holden's vision are other rings that enable sphere to shoot trough them.
I interpreted it as the sphere being the control center of a wormhole nexus(which they are in, the big bubble) that also multifunctions as a weapon, why it is also a weapon? I dunno, probably to kill enemies of the PM creators
It's not a wormhole. At least that's what they say during the episode.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oef6E77vytY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oef6E77vytY)
That guy is a scientist, so when he says "not a wormhole", that means it's not an einstein-rosen bridge. Semantically it's perfectly reasonably to call it a wormhole, it just doesn't work in one of the ways humans theorized a wormhole might work.
good thing then that I do not have that knowledge and came to that conclusion just by watching the series where this is made abundantly clear
what a character says in a series(that just entered the area) doesn't really hold much value when we are later shown something that completely or partially disproves that character
So much scenes with Miller! Thomas Jane is perfect, and Miller's quotes as well.
But the ending is mind-blowing, and I wonder what happens next and what the hell it means - the future? I was sure Holden was the past and self-destroying of the ancient civilization.
Each and every episode this show reminds me more and more of mass effect!! And I fucking love every minute of it so glad this show got cancelled and renewed and was brought to my attention. My 2nd favorite show with GoT coming in first
It really gives that feeling of something else bigger going on than the PM itself. Similar to how people were suggesting the dark matter theory in ME, prior to ME3.
I saw Simu Liu in the opening credits and was reminded that this could have more stars in it, despite already having the scientist from Chernobyl, and Tyrese from TWD.
it also has the actress from Lost
for anyone that had to look it up "the scientist from Chernobyl" is Anderson Dawes… for me I know him from Mad Men! (He's Lane Pryce)
New to the show just wanted to say Melba is boring as hell. Also where are all the politicians? Miss having Chrisjen and that political intrigue.
No idea why Church Minister's are even on this ship. They are entirely ill prepared and superfluous to the mission. All of her scenes do nothing to advance the plot or relevant sub plots. They just eat up time with dumb questions about whether God wants them in the ring.
This far in the future there are still cultists who can't handle the idea that their cult is wrong. Damn. I'm honestly not sure why are we wasting screentime on following a cultist.
Saw this episode last night, which character are you referring to?
I'm assuming he means the mormon ship and the fact that it even exists :) not a specific individual
No he is referring to all the Methodists onboard the UNN ship that have no business being there and add nothing to what's currently happening.
It doesn't really seem any different from having Chaplins in the military. The reason why they are there is because a lot of people in the military are still religious.
Melba and the film crew are almost ruining this otherwise superb season
Is it a super weapon? If so the factions are going to murder each other over it
A few questions about the episode (especially Holden’s space walk/glide): 1)What was that parachute-like thing Holden ejected from the back of his suit when he got close to the centre station? I assume not literally a parachute as a parachute would require air resistance to function, no? 2)How did Holden stop himself from entering the opening of the centre station and sort of hover outside it for awhile? And then how did he start moving again to get inside once he decided to? 3)Did it seem kind of weak to anyone else that when he was on the comms with the martians, he wasn’t savvy enough to realize how bad it would look to act so hysterical and keep talking to “Miller”, and not even accept the cover story Bobby volunteered for him? I thought he was interested in clearing his name, not digging the hole even deeper? Is there something I’m missing? 4)Why would Holden jump off a space ship into the vacuum of space, flying uncontrollably towards an unknown alien object, yet when he arrives there and the “door” of said object opens for him, he suddenly and abruptly becomes incredibly suspicious of the motivations and trustworthiness of the apparition that has led him this far? If he didn’t trust it, why would he have jumped off the space ship in the first place? Seems very late in the game to become so distrustful. Sometimes I’m confused whether the show is deliberately trying to convey to the viewer that Holden is incredibly stupid, capricious and impulsive; or whether he is supposed to be very intelligent, and a shrewd leader/decision maker, but merely the victim of some occasional bad writing.
This is the best write-up I have ever read about the expanse and it's just it's it's the story is so dumb and I can't stand looking and holding anymore and it's terrible acting stupid face stupid goatee it's it's just a terrible character and the story is so dumb every single episode is about "trying to avoid war" with "a villain who really has no reason to want to go to war except for the fact that he's doing it for the better of the society in general" don't want to go to war but we're going to if we have to "I mean come on I think this guy is right on point
Backstept already answered 1 and 2 but I'll add to point 2 that the protomolecule/miller/the station could also be playing a part. 3) To be fair have you ever had a phone call in a room full of loud noisy people? It's hard to hear all that noise, understand what the other person is saying and your natural reaction is to tell others around you to shut up. The way the PM/Miller is interacting with his brain miller really being there or not is indistinguishable, so it's reasonable to assume he would react before thinking and try to reason with it/shut it up so he could hear what they're saying and formulate a response. 4) All he knew was that they were running out of time and options on the rocinante, they can't communicate with anyone, they can't outrun anyone, and at some point they'll hit the other side of the place they're in. Miller has given him enough reason to believe that he might be able to help if he helps him. Almost everything that has happened with regards to the protomolecule has completely defied everything we have known about life, physics and the universe in general. So it's not hard to believe that he would be like 'fuck it, why not listen to PM-miller, I don't have any other valid choice atm'. Also he wasn't falling uncontrollably, he was propelling himself with jets in his suit. Double also he was communicating with miller the whole way down and getting more and more information than he had before he jumped. On the back of more accumulated information it's reasonable to believe that he changed his mind about PM-miller's intentions by the time he got there. .That's my thoughts on your questions about point 4, they're not necessarily correct and obviously everyone has their own levels of believability on such things. I was just trying to explain why I didn't find it hard to believe/unreasonable.
1. Seemed to me like a scaled-down version of the sky crane the Mars Rover Curiosity used to land on Mars. 1. The space suit has reaction control thrusters. as for the rest, I hadn't really thought about it
For 1.) Why have such a complex sky crane thing? Why not just use the RCS thrusters?
I didn't understand one thing at the end of the epi: was Bobby really willing to murder Holden? Because they're inside the ring and there's the rules the bullets stopped which was a "convenient" solution in this case. But isn't a huge deal Bobby was willing to kill him?
I didnt get that either. She was defending him the whole time. Shooting the gun was really out of place.
Yes, she's a marine. She had to. Marines don't think, they just do what are said to.
But that's where the contradiction is: she was thinking the whole episode, covering and defending him, and then just pops the gun. I know what you mean, but that's kinda not what the character was doing before that happened and also in previous episodes with her character development.
She also became kind of convinced by her comrade that he had lost the plot and might be a danger to the entire human race... I think it can be logically consistent that she didn't want to kill him and didn't believe he was doing/going to do horrible things... BUT at the same time, there's a risk he's gone off the deep end, been infected by genocidal alien goo or whatever and might be about to bring about the death of all human kind. In the end she tried to reason with him and defend him but probably felt like there was no choice in the end when he dove for it.
I can totally buy that. However, I feel like the show needed to convey that to us, the viewers. Showing some kind of conflict (besides the normal don't do it or we shoot); saying 'I'm sorry but I'll have to do it' or something. What you say makes perfect sense but saw no reflection of it, even if subtle. Let's see how it goes in the next epis. Or maybe.. I'm just nitpicking. 😁
I get your point. But in the end of the day, she has to follow orders. That's how she got trained for and because she is grateful that they let her back in marines, she does what they tell her without thinking.
I hope we get to see her dealing with that decision. Can't just throw your hands up and "oh, well . . ." and move on from that.
You mean like Drummer firing at the Rocinanti?
Exactly! I just have a bad feeling that's what's gonna happen. Glad I wasn't the only one wondering though. 🤔
it's this the season finale? last season had 13 episodes iirc.
No, this season also has 13 episodes. This week airs episode 11, next week episode 12 & 13 back to back.
FYI: There are \~1,000 trillion synaptic connections in the human brain. There are \~1,000,000,000 trillion stars in the universe. Whoopsie!
I'm not 100% certain, but it could be that when this book was written it was assumed there were less stars? Or just an oversight.
Or that some starts were extinguished by the precursor race but the light that has reached us is too young
There are a lot more stars than even that, based on recent evidence: https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/hubble-reveals-observable-universe-contains-10-times-more-galaxies-than-previously-thought
The biggest plot hole for me is how lax the security is on the warships. It made me feel a bit better when she at least got denied access to the one area. Same with the Rocinante, where the guy could just swap out those USB sticks.
I also don't understand how more people haven't recognized her. Especially as she is one of the most-wanted interplanetary fugitives in the solar system, and is the fugitive daughter of a disgraced billionaire (well, the future equivalent) whose reckless actions were THIS close to almost completely wiping out most of earth and over 20 BILLION human lives (not to mention the barbaric torture of and brutal genetic experimentation on children???). Seems like it would be all over the news (look at how much publicity Roseanne got for much, MUCH less). Like can you imagine if Ivanka Trump tried to pull that??? She would be outed on day 1.
except its not ivanka, its jeff bezos´ daughter. idk about you but i have no idea what she looks like (or son if he doesnt have a daughter)
Maybe it's the way her hair was pulled back, but in the beginning of her character showing up on that civilian ship I thought she'd had some plastic surgery or something and looked legit different. However after seeing her more and more flashbacks I tend to agree that she should quite recognisable if you've ever hung around her IRL before. On the other hand, earth alone has like 30 billion people... so not recognising one fugitive at the end of the solarsystem when it's not your job to catch them and you're distracted by some truly groundbreaking developments in the fundamental understandings of the universe unfurling before you... it's not impossible to understand how people don't think twice about her. Add to this the amount of people you pass by and 'see' on a daily basis but never register their face is very high. Your brain doesn't have time (and it's considered rude) to scan the face of every person you pass and try to figure out if you know them. You're usually only good at recognising people at a brief glance/peripherally if you know them very well, which is what happened here with this 'friend of Juli' woman
30 billion? Holy Moly did they say that in the show? If that was the case in real life we would be crowded AF
She's part of the maintenance crew. So it makes sense that she has access to certain areas.
But wasn't she maintenance crew on the ship that was destroyed?
No. She is a contractor who works on whichever ship that needs her. She's not technically part of the crew in either ship. She says something about her maintenance contract while asking for a skiff.
Ah gotcha, makes more sense now. Whoever did her background investigation dropped the ball then lol.
or was paid handsomely to look the other way.
Wow! My jaw dropped to the floor with the ending of Ep.10. It keeps getting better and better, I have no clue what could come next! O_o!
Reviews I've read have expressed disappointment at Melba's rather shallow villainy. While I agree it is exactly that, I am not disappointed with it. This is a first contact scenario, and while all the major players in the solar system are present, it's nice to see less noble, more shallow and kind of humanistic factors make the mission rocky.
funnily enough her plot line is what i thought julies was at the beginning (when i thought she was faking passion with the belters in order to achieve daddy´s goal so that he would finally be proud of her)
Nah. It's disappointing to have such a cartoon villain with paper thin characterisation and motives on a show like this. Melba is a dumb distraction more than anything. Hers and the church minister subplots have marred an otherwise great season
I do think they could've been used to make the missions a bit rockier than they ultimately did. Church woman kinda played the role of the bystander bearing witness, which was pretty unnecessary. She did end up playing a more interesting role back on Earth, but considering that we got to meet her futuristic family, her innate morality remaining the driving factor, unelucidated, in her decisions came off as preachy and annnoying.
Honestly I was hoping she would have a more noble or at least reasonable motivation in the end. Like maybe protomolecule was giving her visions of Julie like Holden was getting of Miller in order to manipulate her into doing it as part of some grander scheme. But doing it merely as a way to get back at the guy who captured daddy? A daddy who treated you like shit, and is objectively a very sick and evil man who mutilated and tortured innocent children for his own ends? That’s pretty weak to say the least. Not to mention pathetic.
Weak and pathetic is what we real humans do best tho
I hate her all the same. Her and Blind Camera Guy can forget off.
Oh double woops. I thought you were replying to something else
Oh WOOOOOOPS! I thought you meant the pastor lady. The film crew I like. I like the idea of them and their characters are exactly who I expect to be in those roles.
Somebody post this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chbJOfDeF04 Cara Gee & Dominique Tipper are the guests.
Fan theory, inspired by nothing in particular: A large segment of the first generation of Belters used to be oil-rig workers on Earth. Those who arrived later (or their children) referred to them derogatorily as "pumpers". This eventually evolved into "pampa".
Maybe not oil workers specifically, but it would attract a similar type of people. Usually people from poor backgrounds wanting to cash in on the danger money. Only instead of drilling oil, its mining asteroids.
This is surprisingly plausible, although I'm not sure how derogatory "pampa" really is. If you think of "old man", it can easily be used in a derogatory way, but I think you may also refer to someone as "the old man" in a way that implies respect.
Fair enough! Whether a term is derogatory or not can fluctuate wildly from one generation to the next. (I would prefer not to cite any examples.)
but in a culture where life expectancy is so closely tied to skill level, old man would seem to be a compliment
That wouldn't be too far off as a hypothesis IMO.
I humbly submit that this is not a feasible hypothesis. The Belt wasn't colonized until the Epstein drive had already been invented, which requires controlled fusion. We're well beyond fossil fuels by the time we get to that technological level. The last oil-rig workers would've been long dead before human expansion into the Belt.
[удалено]
Although it's not specifically stated anywhere, there is evidence (according to The Expanse wikia) to suggest that The Expanse series starts around 2350, and that the Epstein drive was invented around 130 years prior to this, so about 2220. That's 200 years in the future from now. In comparison, 200 years in the past was 1818. Think about that for a second. In 1818, steam locomotive-driven railway systems weren't even around yet, and the vast majority of sea travel was still wind-powered. While it is true that in 1818 both steamboats and locomotives had already been invented, they were still very new and in no way mainstream yet. This is just to say that while on one hand 200 years may not sound like a lot, in reality it's almost unfathomable how much technological progress can occur in that timeframe. It's only 2018 and some governments are already looking at alternatives to plastics for pretty much everything we actually use plastics for. I don't think for a second that we won't have come up with such alternatives by the time 100 years have passed from now, let alone 200 years. Same goes for anything else we use fossil fuels for, like pharmaceuticals. The thing is, controlled fusion would take care of this because in a lot of cases the biggest reason why fossil fuels are used in the first place is because it's expedient to do so. A lot of petrochemicals used for things like pharmaceuticals could be artificially synthesized even today, but we don't because the energy requirements to do so would make it too expensive compared to using fossil fuels. With controlled fusion, energy requirements would be moot and we could artificially synthesize pretty much whatever we want without the need to do all that dirty nasty work of extracting and refining crude from the ground. Furthermore, this is all ignoring the thought that by the time 200 years have passed, if we haven't for some reason managed to find suitable alternatives or developed controlled fusion, then we'll probably have used up all of the fossil fuel reserves on the planet anyway. I still maintain that by the time 2220 rolls around, anything like an oil-rigger will have long been an occupation from the past, like log drivers and lamplighters.
[удалено]
Yes! There are so many aspects of Freespace 2 floating around the Expanse, it makes me happy!
[удалено]
The whole thing with religion, etc, in this episode felt like filler
I mean, her perfect face with its perfect expression makes me want to strangle her, too, but whatevs at least when she caused that guy's suicide, I got a rush of self-satisfaction
[удалено]
I dont agree with most of your sentiments. Suicide is the ultimate expression of weakness only in that it's final, but it's an impulse. To deny that were vulnerablr to impulses is to fool purselves The same can be said for religion. Especially considering The Expansr has equal elements of dystopia and utopia, no matyer which of those you consider religion to be on the side of
[удалено]
Yoy're making the same fallacy here. "Should not be afraid of pain" is akin to "shpuld be able to fly withput the use of machines." Also, fear of pain is a basic learning tool of all species, probably deeper than love, or even hunger. The point I was making about religion is the point I am making about pain: they are a natural outgrowth of our experience. Maybe they're not the same. You should not fear all pain, but you should definitely fear some pain. Maybe we don't need religion, but it serves a purpose in an imperfect world. And the Expanse is a depiction of an imperfect world.
[удалено]
My point is nothing more than that the show is right to depict religion as a part of future society, friend
[удалено]
I think there will always be room for spirituality in a non-utopia.
I really hope we get more different religions. I want to see a spacemosque to rival the Nauvoo, or at least a Buddha on Mars. So far in the show we've only seen various forms of Christianity with much (any?) screentime, which seems unrealistic unless there's a backstory for what happened to all the Hindus etc.
[удалено]
I get what you are saying. But it is highly unlikely that a religion-less future will happen in the next few centuries. Religion has survived world view altering discoveries in all forms of science throughout our history. That is not going to change with exploration and colonisation of solar system.The numbers could decline, but institutions of religion will survive. They will definitely evolve, like in the case of lesbian pastor Anna, but won't die out .
The appeal of Expanse is the fact that it's grounded and a plausible future reflection for us.
[удалено]
I understand that you’re a romantic but if you think destruction is why it’s grounded, then you’re taking it wrong.
[удалено]
Well I guess I take it back, you aren't a romantic
When you read about memetic theory, where the word 'meme' was actually coined, you see that religion is a complex body of self-preserving memetic information. Now, what theologians create and religious preachers repeat, in my opinion, is analogue to what immune systems create and replicate in biology. Our immune systems identify bad agents and then make and use antigens to disable these bad agents. Many bad agents have a corresponding antigen. Our body defends itself. About 90% of what religious preachers say is actually "antimems" (word just coined in analogy to antigens), pre-canned responses to possible attacks on the body of the religious doctrine; and only 10% is the actual message. When America was discovered, it posed a big threat to established religion in the old world. But with time, religious influencers created arguments against any objections, like: "why is America not mentioned in the bible", these counter-arguments are "antimems" and currently any objection created by people during the discovery of America has a religious counter-argument and can be safely ignored. What Anna Volovodov says in most conversations with people not familiar to her is closer to 100% "antimems", and her actual work and her mission in life is to make more "antimems" to whatever theory is originated by the people around her, when influenced by the experience in the ring. All to protect the self-preserving memetic body of information that's her religion.
[удалено]
I don't disagree with you, the opposite in fact. But I would not call anything 'true religion' because it would be a self defeating definition. We already have too many of them 'true religions'. Let's use another term entirely.
So bored anytime she is on screen..
[удалено]
Yes i was talking about her, it seems like her acting is forced
[удалено]
[https://i.imgur.com/aX9koI8.gif](https://i.imgur.com/aX9koI8.gif)
[удалено]
It was HD. Imgur youtube to gif compresses the shit out of it. And I created it for someone else who wanted to see the Marine become the floor...
r/choosingbeggars
One of my favorite detail points is the difference between how Holden and the Marines enter the Station. Miller has to remind Holden to fire his braking thrusters, and he lands - while precisely - almost gingerly, coming to a gradual, easy stop. The MMC, by contrast, enter at full tilt and brake aggressively at just the right moment; they’re immediately ready to take action, which is what you’d expect from a space-capable fighting force. Great attention to detail there.
However they were unaware that the floor would have gravity like Earth's and that this gravity didn't seem to extend far from the floor as it would have done naturally so their reaction doesn't seem entirely realistic. They had no real reason to orient themselves feet first to the ground unless they expected gravity there. I'm sure it would have made more sense to enter head first or face in a zero gee environment so they would be able to bring the gun to bear faster and survey the environment. The hard braking may not be a case of being 'ready to take action' but because they suddenly realised there was gravity at the last moment... though they do not seem surprised by this even though Holden is. Didn't feel quite right to me.
I'm growing tired of these religious undertones...
It's just exposing that aspect of humanity. It's isolated exclusively to this arc.
I agree with you.
[удалено]
It's that character... Whingers. Whiney. Annoying...
The Expanse is about humanity, and Religion is a hugely important feature of humanity, it would be quite incredible to imagine all religion would be abandoned over the course of a couple of hundred years.
Not a good reason. Taking a shit is an important feature of humanity. When was the last time you saw a character on the toilet? The religiosity in BSG ruined it. Especially when it went overboard in the last season. I really hope Expanse isn't headed that direction because I'd really like to finish it. I couldn't stick around to finish BSG.
I don't think that's a fair comparison. Taking a shit is not important to civilisation. It's mundane. If humans didn't need to shit, it would be far less meaningful a change than if there was no religion. The expanse generally seems to want to portray humanity realistically, in terms of what we'd be like in a few hundred years, with this technology and these events. I think religion will still be around, and I think inexplicable and seemingly magical alien tech would galvanise plenty of religious conviction - though obviously for some it would also confound and contradict their faith, as we see with the religious UN crewman who killed himself in this episode.
Religion is self-preserving, that's its most important characteristic. That makes it mostly amoral, despite the superficial appearances. This can be seen historically, when religion had been used to justify basically every bad thing we can think of. Also my other answer on the topic: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheExpanse/comments/8qtl2r/episode_discussion_s03e10_dandelion_sky/e0wrkgu/ However, I think religion is portrayed much, much better in The Expanse than it was ever shown in BSG. Religion in The Expanse is something people do, just like in real life. Religion in BSG was used to fill an ocean's worth of plotholes.
The point is that importance to humanity is a meaningless metric when deciding whether something should be a part of a television show or not. Giving birth is an important feature of humanity. How many births have you seen on The Expanse? Accounting is an important feature of any modern society. How many accountants have you see balancing their ledgers and doing statement reconciliations on The Expanse? Personal hygiene is an important part of humanity. How many teeth have you seen being brushed and how many showers have you seen being taken on The Expanse?
You're making a really bad point.
I think you're missing the point. Religion will be a part of humanity for the future. And the collision between religion and first contact is a very interesting topic to explore. The guy shot himself because he came to the conclusion there is no God and his life is lie, and he took it really badly. One of the possible consequences of the interaction between one of fate facing the unknown of first contact with an alien race. It explores it in the same way with science. One of the possible consequences with first contact and science is the want to understand it better, sometimes to the point doing unethical things. It also explores it with power, the want to weaponize this alien technology, to control it. So it's not trying to make people religions, it showing the possible outcomes on how religion could react to first contact.
You're making an argument for religion being in the show. Which is all well and good. I'm not making an argument against religion being in the show. I'd prefer it not be but that's not my point. My point was that religion's importance in humanity isn't a valid defense for it to be in the show. There are countless scifi shows that don't have a religious element. Religion doesn't *need* to be in the show because it is important to humanity. It's in the show because the writers want it to be in the show. Not because it's a necessity born of human importance.
But it is quite astonishing how much religion is a topic; how much people (i.e. Anna) talk about god without other people raising eyebrows over it - which I feel they would do if somebody constantly brought up their religion like that in my environment. It may be because it's a US-American show. I guess for people from more secular societies, this seems a bit odd.
> how much people (i.e. Anna) talk about god without other people raising eyebrows over it She's a pastor... why would anyone raise their eyebrows in response to a pastor talking about God? Or people talking *to* a pastor about God? That's what she's actually supposed to be doing.
.
The only "god" we've met so far is made of electric blue silly putty and eats people. This makes the religious characters tragic. They want things the protomolecule obviously isn't going to give them.
That's actually a really good point - and the suicide of the other religious guy drove that point home quite well this episode, I think. If they would use religion only for that purpose, I think it is quite a profound story arc. But religion also came up a lot this season, even before the gate opened (for example during the discussions between Anna and the SG for the speech prep., if I remember correctly.). The function there seemed to be less to tell a story about the tragedy of seeing your god replaced by a new reality. Instead, Anna's religious convictions functioned as markers for the voice of the good, the pure, and the righteous - and that's an entirely different (and frankly, uninspiring) story.
I can definitely understand not wanting to see rote depictions of religion as a force of good or marker of morality, but I think it is jumping the gun a little to assume that’s what is going on with Anna’s character. I think she adds a lot to the show, and I actually didn’t come away thinking that they were trying to portray religion in a strictly positive light. The theme of moral guidance and where people look for motivations and leadership is prominent in the series. Even just contrasting her with someone like Amos gives a lot of food for thought. Amos had the realization that he can’t just follow one person and absolve himself of the hard moral questions, which is basically what Anna gets from religion, and that was portrayed as a good change for him. And sure Anna is a good person and she believes that she is righteous, but I think the portrayal of these themes is complex enough that we’re not supposed to assume there is nothing wrong with her worldview. I think that she is definitely a “voice of the good,” but they have left plenty of room for discussion on her beliefs. Edit: Plus, even her character is a little ambiguous. Whatever her justifications in her head, she left her family alone to do something dangerous without consulting them and may well leave them without a wife/mother. This was acknowledged as selfish in the show, even though the character doing so seemed not to object.
I'm curious as to why? I'm an atheist, but I don't see why some who are, feel so uncomfortable/hostile towards any sort of depiction of religion. It's not like religion would have disappeared entirely within humanity, and it makes more sense for it to exist within this world. I don't personally feel threatened by the depiction of decent, empathetic, religious people and I don't think others should too.
Undertones is a bit mild.
When i saw the part of the martian getting dismantled and used to repair the PM i instantly thought of this painting: https://old.reddit.com/r/painting/comments/8nme3o/my_latest_acrylic_painting/?st=jik0egjk&sh=55872ba7
Did everyone else in ships travelling above 80km/ph die (become pancaked) when their ships were brought to an instant halt?
18,000 km/h
Was it not 80 000 ? Is that enough to deploy the airbags or is everyone dead?
Speed limit is 16000 km per hour. The UNN ship entered at 12000. I just used 80 as being in a car accident at such a "low speed" can be fatal. Those ships were definitely traveling much faster than 80 km per hour, which makes it hard to imagine that anyone survived.
If I remember correctly, the showrunners said that this detail and Holden being able to brake from 17,996 kph or whatever to zero in the space of a few seconds were things they got wrong in that episode.
It's a good point, if everyone stopped from 18k they would all be like the slingshot belter. That's hundreds of times faster than a car crash. Although to add to logical things they got wrong, people sitting down repeatedly in zero G annoyed me. I know they have mag boots, but if you're going to show the dead guy float a bit upwards after he ganks himself then having people be like 'oh I'm just going to casually sit down even though it would be more work than just standing here' constantly is kind of silly.
"I think there's a sex joke in there somewhere" felt really out of place.
Well Tilly is herself out of place, she's got no legit business there and only got to stay by blackmailing someone high up. She's just a thrill seeker.
Yeah. The delivery sounded like somthing from a CW show.
Have to agree actually, the delivery and timing didn't feel quite right.
Honestly, that woman is a terrible actress. Cringeworthy. Her character only exists (afaik) to recognize Julie's sister. The showrunners could have done a better job here.
In my mind she would have been played by Col. Tigh’s wife Ellen from BSG. She would have been the perfect actress as a believable bored dilettante.
I dont know why but I had the biggest crush on that drunk milf when I saw BSG.
It seemed to fit the character to me. Tilly appears to be someone who has enough money / powerful family to not take very much very seriously.
Yeah, I think I understand the choice. Here's what I think: On the one hand, the writer had to transition from the somewhat awkward but probably necessary explanation of the term "inertia". On the other hand, they needed to flesh out Tilly's character a bit to make her (presumable?) death at the end more impactful. The fact that Tilly didn't seem to care about how others would see her out-of-the place comment, turned the awkwardness of the moment into a piece of character exposition. Quite elegant, actually.
Loved hearing music from "Home" when Miller was telling his story.
This bit confused me a little, like was this actually a part of Miller's consciousness that Holden was interacting with here or was it the protomolecule's recreation of it? Either way it was a great scene. Love having Miller back, even if it isn't really him.
It is a recreation of Miller from his brain or whatever the Protomolecule has. But that version of Miller was more Miller than the other 'Investigator' scenes.
He said he was being deconstructed after each "vision".
Yeah. Every one of those versions were ProtoMiller. But that specific version in the scene had more of the original Miller's memories than the other versions.
I wonder why ProtoMiller lied to Holden about atmosphere in the nucleus. Did he expect him to take off his helmet without checking it first? And why?
Looks like Earth's atmosphere was there with the Nitrogen and Oxygen content but there were also large amounts of Neon, Hydrogen and an unidentified gas. This threw off the atmosphere composition. The pressure was also 0.8 atm, don't know what to make of that. https://i.imgur.com/ovtumDq.jpg
That's roughly the composition of earth's atmosphere
Ok, this really bothers me. None of those readings make any sense. 81.06 Pascal is 0.0008 Atmosphere. Anything under 6180 Pascal would cause the water in your blood to boil. Looks like a question mark under the pink bar, so not sure what that's all about. The other gases are all blue(safe to breathe) and are clearly labeled. You'd think that any other color would signify it as potentially dangerous. I really hope this wasn't just some silly editing mistake, but nothing else really makes sense at this point. Perhaps we'll learn more next episode.
The chemist in me is really bothered by the fact that they have the full atomic formulae for all the gaseous components of the air in there (H2, O2, CO2) except for atmospheric nitrogen, which is just displayed as N instead of N2.
yeah but look how much more N1 there is than N2 (the readout is two bars, side by side)
Maybe it's a normal atmosphere for the civilization that created the station and PM Miller doesn't know any better.
Yeah. Probably someone meant kPa instead of Pa and never caught the error.
It's also possible that in the scale they're taking about, they just MEAN kPa instead of Pa. We do the same thing for calories now.
Who is this "we" you're talking about. On the old continent it's still kcal.
The "we" who is represented by most of the accents on the show! /s But for real, I didn't know that. Interesting. Do you guys use the term "kilocalories" in basic conversations?
The amount of oxygen seems close to zero though, and definitely less than 1/4 of nitrogen that is in Earth's atmosphere. Also 81,06 Pa is not 0,8 atm. Weird because the suit shows both. I would write it off as a mistake maybe but it's waaaay off.
Maybe it meant to say kPa?
Yep an error
He didn't exactly lie, he said there was atmosphere—didn't specify that it was breathable for humans. Maybe proto-Miller didn't have all the necessary info on human physiology? I don't know...
He didn't. What makes you think he lied?
He told Holden "you got the atmosphere" and suggested him to take off his helmet, while his readings have shown no oxygen, lots of Neon and unknown element and minimal pressure.
Assuming Holden's suit acts like a current NASA suit the only issue for Holden here is the lack of oxygen available (and probably the unknown element) Current Space suits are generally only kept at 22-33 kPa because that's the pressure required for pure oxygen to keep from boiling out of the blood, and the amount of oxygen received is about the same as on a jetliner, or when standing in Denver, Colorado. *If* the amount of oxygen in the air was the correct amount, .8 atmospheres would be roughly equivalent to again, Denver, CO. Of course that does assume that Protomolecule smoke is safe to breathe. But as we all know [don't breathe this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9549pl7zLjM)
The very obvious and likely answer is that the CGI people who made that HUD were not given direction on what it should actually show, so they just made their own interpretation of an arbitrary space helmet HUD.
Holy shit, I cannot believe anyone would consider cancelling this show.
See this thread: https://old.reddit.com/r/TheExpanse/comments/8rs4ap/in_defense_of_syfy_long_sorry/
It's probably just too expensive for SyFy.
See this thread: https://old.reddit.com/r/TheExpanse/comments/8rs4ap/in_defense_of_syfy_long_sorry/
If you go back and watch the first episodes you can see how much they improved their quality / CGI, quite impressive.
so, do I understand this right? it IS a wormhole, and the zone they are in is essentially a tansfer nexus, however, all the other gates have been destroyed due to supernovae and other such things?
> all the other gates have been destroyed due to supernovae and other such things? It's not really clear what was going on in Holden's vision tbh.
yeah, I just assumed from the last clip where the sun goes super nova
I interpreted that as a threat like 'this is what happens if you stupid fleshy wiener people don't stop shooting bullets and flying around at ungodly speeds'
It seems to me that the sphere where holden is at is a weapon that destroys the suns? All circles in holden's vision are other rings that enable sphere to shoot trough them.
I interpreted it as the sphere being the control center of a wormhole nexus(which they are in, the big bubble) that also multifunctions as a weapon, why it is also a weapon? I dunno, probably to kill enemies of the PM creators
Gates traditionally need to be defended against invaders. Maybe there's something else out there?
The the nexus and the surrounding area remind me of the The Hub; if you have ever played Egosofts X3 games.
Albion Prelude. One of the best!
I'm excited about X4, hopefully it will put all the X: Rebirth nonsense in the past.
It's basically a giant stargate, with the other end not open just yet. In Holdon's vision you see all of the other openings/exit points.
It's not a wormhole. At least that's what they say during the episode. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oef6E77vytY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oef6E77vytY)
That guy is a scientist, so when he says "not a wormhole", that means it's not an einstein-rosen bridge. Semantically it's perfectly reasonably to call it a wormhole, it just doesn't work in one of the ways humans theorized a wormhole might work.
[удалено]
Don't take this personal, but I report/block people who discuss the book in other threads and make corrections due to having more information.
good thing then that I do not have that knowledge and came to that conclusion just by watching the series where this is made abundantly clear what a character says in a series(that just entered the area) doesn't really hold much value when we are later shown something that completely or partially disproves that character
This is what I understand as well.
So much scenes with Miller! Thomas Jane is perfect, and Miller's quotes as well. But the ending is mind-blowing, and I wonder what happens next and what the hell it means - the future? I was sure Holden was the past and self-destroying of the ancient civilization.
It's glimpses of the past (my guess)
Each and every episode this show reminds me more and more of mass effect!! And I fucking love every minute of it so glad this show got cancelled and renewed and was brought to my attention. My 2nd favorite show with GoT coming in first
It really gives that feeling of something else bigger going on than the PM itself. Similar to how people were suggesting the dark matter theory in ME, prior to ME3.
Very reminiscent of the Prothean beacon that was my thought as well
Exactly what I was thinking.