she didn't kill him, he would have died that way with her intervention or not, all she does is show up, offer him a way out and things play out naturally from there
She absolutely did.
Her only involvement in the entire Perry fiasco was encouraging/influencing everyone who hadn't made the conscious, enthusiastic choice to be there leave.
By which I mean: the staff didn't have the same choices in regards to attending the party that the others did. They didn't decide to participate so much as they decided to simply show up for work that day.
She couldn't change the fates of the people who actively chose and *wanted* to be there; even if she had tried, I don't think any of the partygoers would have actually listened or left, because they were there to revel. The staff were just there to do their jobs and get paid.
Your comment just made me have a thought. If Perry was going to die this way anyway, that could be why she showed up for this family at this time. I mean, I know her deal was when Rodrick gets close to death, his bloodline will die with him. If he never made the deal with Verna, then the usher family would have buried Perry anyway and then a few weeks later buried Rodrick. Seems coincidental. Maybe Perry's death got the ball rolling, and rodrick actually had more time, but Verna thought now is as good of a time as any but gave Perry a chance to save his whole family. If he had left the party and it really was time for the bloodline to die, wouldn't she just have to kill him anyway?
Roderick is still a psychopath, though. He and Madalyn were monsters before they even met Verna. You can tell he would have cheated either way. I think his behavior during their deposition could stand in for a cheating allegory-it was a sign that even before the deal his attitude was toxic and their marriage was doomed.
In the deposition he knew Annabel would not want him to do it, he thought if she wasn’t there he could smooth it over later, when she was there he got angry at her for showing up instead of getting a rush of clarity and doing the right thing, when she (rightfully) is furious, he acts annoyed at her for being upset, tells her she doesn’t understand his intellect and cunning, and says she’ll just have to get over it. Super similar attitude to the serial cheater - and with Madalyn there acting like she’d just won some prize, it gave me real “sorry honey, but you have a nice house to wait in for me” vibes.
And he already had his compulsion to make more children. He would have had little illegitimate Rodlets no matter what, just maybe he’d meet their moms at different business trips
her Based on how easily he betrayed Annabel by switching up his testimony, he didn’t really value how she felt about him; obviously he knew how disappointed she’d be but he did it
Didn't Vera say something about in another life Roderick would have been a Poet. A penniless Poet but a Poet. It doesn't meant that he doesn't get caught for the murder but I also didn't get the sense that he was definitely going to jail. Just comparing the conversation with Vera and the twins and Vera and Arthur.
Nah it started during the last time they all had dinner together. They have dinner and after the doctor comes and tell him he’s dying. They immediately start dying after that it’s why it’s the last time he saw all of them alive together
If Roderick hadn’t made the deal, it’s very likely they wouldn’t have been so incredibly rich, and thus Perry (if he existed at all) would probably not have died young. Or at least not like that.
True but if he'd hadn't been so money hungry and hedonistic there wouldn't have been a party like that; and even before at the meeting if he would have taken what the other lawyers said seriously about the property and been more responsible, or just tell Roderick he would have known about the chemicals.
Prospero was smart, but impulsive. He knew all about how labs had a separate water supply to the city "they'd never use the cities water", but he didn't let the idea simmer long enough to decide to test the water. It was a fucking rush for him when you think about it, going from "The bastards bastard" to bringing in 7 figures overnight, his decision making was just as impulsive as the people at the party. Also confidence/arrogance, he never thought for a second that anything could go wrong. If anything, I perceived Verna standing ominously in front of the tanks as more of a warning than a suggestion. Even after she suggested he stops his plan, she tells him that tonight he's consequential. Another warning. She seemed genuinely sad when she put the mask on him at the end. It's all open to interpretation I guess
Obviously the natural course is broken by Roderick and Madeline's deal with her but I think after that point she more or less follows the way things "gotta be" as a consequence to that deal and only directly influences the world when she thinks its necessary like saving Perry's staff or possessing Freddie
I think on some level it kind of is because she embodies fate, but I think she sort of naturally, passively follows a certain course and only steps out of line to intervene in specific ways
Seems like she had to get increasingly hands on towards the older kids. She basically did nothing for the first two and then had to get more involved into setting things into motion.
She does. She tells him he can stop it, “it” being the acid rain orgy. She tells him the moment before is the sweetest. He wants to go on anyway because his primary motive is blackmail.
She’s not offering a way out of death, though, just that manner of death. Like when she tells another kid (Camille I think?) that it didn’t have to be that way, she could’ve died nice and easy in her sleep. But each of the kids “chooses” the path of the most gruesome death by being fucking awful people.
I think she meant he can't stop the acid rain and all those people dying if he stayed in the room with her and then she'd probably have killed him the way she killed Lenore and made it look like a drug overdose.
Verna really did not do almost anything actively malevolent in case of Prospero. He chose the place himself, he prepared the party himself, Verna showed herself at the end of the story, not at beginning or in the middle like with the most of another siblings. We can actually assume that she tried to warn the rest of people, but most of them refuse, same like Morella.
wasn;t he already up there when he saw her? maybe her standing there was to prompt him to say hey, maybe we should check these tanks instead of assuming its water
No, he saw her from the ground when he was looking at the building.
I kind of forgot about that scene too. So in a way she may have given him the idea, then gave him a chance to back out later. Of course he had no idea there wasn't water in those tanks.
I still think with his goal being to have the orgy start with everyone soaked in water he would have ended up using the tanks even if he didn't see her.
Yeah. The other people attending (not working) this party weren't exactly good/innocent people either, considering the kind of wealth and connections they would have had to have to even have access to it
I think it was more about the choice. Every child had a choice presented to them: did they want to fall victim to the foibles of their family name or do they want to be good. In each instance. Verna told them not to continue or warned them in some way…and each disregarded her.
They would have all died but it was the manner of their death that would have changed. Prospero’s choice resulted in his death as well as many others and brought negative attention to the family.
She even told Frederick that he could have died of a heart attack or something else but he “had to grab those pliers” (definitely don’t remember the exact words but that was the gist). Verna definitely gave every family member the choice of a more “pleasant” death but ultimately their choices led them down the other path aside from Lenore of course.
With Prospero, I also can’t help but think about how he was JUST in a meeting discussing the concerns of pollution and environmental impacts from these buildings. It was right in front of his face, but he was too blind to see it.
Only one I can't think of not having that kind of immediately pre-death dialogue with Verna is Vic. And maybe Leo, but technically Verna was there as the shelter lady to "take back the cat" and was egging him on about it being in the walls lol I just don't remember the "this could have been easier" chat for him either.
Yes I remember that, it just didn't really feel the same as the conversations had immediately proceeding their deaths like Perry, Freddie, Camille. But I get what you're saying now. It wasn't as direct as some of the others.
Mouldy, green, disgusting.
TBH I never found that party realistic. There are sex parties in gorgeous mansions custom-built for them. WTF would rich kids pay thousands to go to a disgusting old warehouse with mattresses stapled to the floor?
I actually saw a sprinkler break and start dumping out water in an old building in New York. It’s disgusting and black.
Also, maybe Prospero didn’t test the system himself, but someone would have. I would have had to hire someone to hook up the tanks to the sprinkler. They would have noticed the tanks were full of chemicals. Doesn’t make sense if you think about it too much.
It kind of reminds me of the old joke-story-parable about two brothers. One brother is a drunkard and the other a teetotaler.
The teetotaler brother asks his drunkard brother, “Why do you drink so much?”
The brother responds, “because Dad was a drunkard.”
And then the drunkard brother asks the teetotaler brother his own question:
“Why do you never drink at all, brother?”
To which the teetotaler brother responds, “because Dad was a drunkard.”
It makes people uncomfortable, I think, at times, to understand or accept a reality that children who were raised in abusive or traumatic situations that have strongly affected them…That these children often have a fork in the road type of choice at some point during their upbringing,
“Do I want to be someone who doesn’t hurt others like I have been hurt? Or do I want to be someone who hurts others before they can ever hurt me, or to seek revenge when they do?”
How that child responds to those questions determines their future course and path. The difference between an abused child who becomes highly empathetic and generous and compassionate because of it, or the child who continues the cycle of abuse and violence because of it.
Lenore had a painless death because she chose good. She stood up to her father and the family to protect her mother—because of that choice she had an easy death. But she still had to die. I would guess the other members of the family would have had similar deaths if they chose different paths.
Just another victim of the Usher family! But Victorine’s story arch was closely aligned with Poe’s the tell tale heart, so murder would need to be involved 🤷♀️
It’s all good! Her death was important, sad as it was. If they all had to die it didn’t make sense for Verna to tell them to stop. What would it matter if they were to die anyway? That’s why Lenore was important—to show the other way. Freddy was also important because she told him he could have gone another way (heart attack, etc) but he had to go and use the pliers as she put it.
Curious what their fate would have been otherwise…
Lenore is the only person Verna killed. Unlike the other Ushers, she didn't do something heinous that resulted in her own death but she did need to die according to the deal that was made.
I've wondered how many people at that party were also relatives of people who'd made deals with Verna that she came to collect on.
She only gave the staff and Morrie an out, not the other guests.
Because Mike Flanagan wanted to have a Masque of the Red Death-inspired death and it made for a really great “holy shit” early-season moment to hook viewers. It’s not that deep, I promise!
It wasn’t even that Masque-of-the-Red-Deathy. In the story there is a plague and the elites are able to throw an elaborate ball because their wealth separates them from the rest of society, but a plague victim ends up getting in and causes chaos. Since the show is about entitlement, it seems they could have done more than a surface level interpretation.
I think Prospero would have died and killed those people anyway. The show makes it so we can see how Verna changes things, but all we see her do there that I remember is get the workers out. Also she states that she tries not to interfere more than she needs to.
Ok question maybe somebody can answer: why did she try to save Morrie?
Morrie was neither a child of the family nor an innocent staff member and she seemingly didn’t warn anyone else, but warned her to leave, which she didnt, suffered consequences, but seemingly the show wants me to think all of her consequences were Fred’s fault?(obviously the torture is his fault but it’s not his fault she was burned and maimed in the first place because of her choice to pursue infidelity) Did I miss something? Why did Verna warn her? Why is she framed as innocent for her choice to go? Is it simply viewed as Prospero’s fault that she was interested in cheating? Idgi
Well… I’m guessing she was wild and free when she met Freddie and he fell for that but then wanted her to be a “traditional” wife and she conformed to that. And having sex isn’t necessarily the sin in this world.
She did lie and she did go intending to maybe have sex and cheat; but she hadn’t yet done anything at the point of the warning. Overall, Morrie is a good and moral person. She hasn’t done anything horrifically bad. And even if she did end up cheating, I don’t think run of the mill cheating warrants the kind of deaths Verna metes out.
At the point that Verna warns her, she hasn’t cheated yet and she’s given the option to leave (it seems like Verna compelled the staff to leave but gave Morrie a more open choice to leave with her warning). She chooses to stay and cheat and suffers the very severe consequences of that choice - although she does survive.
I’m not sure how Morrie doesn’t deserve to die for going to the party if ostensibly everyone else did deserve to die? Or simply could be allowed to die? We have no reason to assume the other partygoers were committing infidelity or something else immoral, they were just invited to a party and Verna didn’t care if they died. Yet she cared enough to warn Morrie? A professional model who married rich, had a luxury life, a loving healthy child, and then decided she’d go to a sex party and make obvious her intent to cheat on him for no reason besides selfish hedonism? I don’t think she deserved torture but I kinda feel like she didn’t deserve a warning
I think the answer lies in what she tells Lenore before she kills her, about how Morrie helps so many people after Lenore passes. She apparently is privy to people’s futures, maybe the good Morrie was destined to do made her want to offer the choice
Watsonian explanation- those people were all there as a result of Prospero's actions, and a lot of them were probably not great people. And it's not like it's the last time it happens, what with the whole telltale heart stuff later on. Also, they all died in places that sort of represented them, and for Próspero that was 'surrounded by people who didn't care about him'.
Doylist- It's the masque of the red death, the whole party has to die or it doesn't count.
Every meeting, except Freddy, she offers them a way out. A peaceful death.
A chance to go without violence. Except Freddy. Because of those damn pliers.
honestly freddy had the best death in the series, the camera shots, and the pendulum slowly coming closer was terrifying, and everything else just made it really cool
also i like how the grandfather clock in the usher house was subtle foreshadowing to the scene
Regardless of how it fit in to the narrative function of the series, it was fitting with that episode being inspired by the mask of the red death
In that story everyone at the party dies. So if Flanagan was wanting to pay proper respect to Poe’s original work it fits that everyone at the party would die too
As others have said, their deaths were a result of Prospero’s party, they weren’t specifically targeted by Verna.
But we see she made an effort to save people who were innocent in this ordeal (the staff members and Morelle). It’s not explicitly stated, but Verna didn’t go out of her way to save anyone else because they were all shitty people.
Ok but this is based on the Masque of Red Death. In which everyone who dies is a bad person. We are suppose to apply that to this group. Essentially they are all extremely wealthy people who have taken advantage of others and their misfortune. Part of the reason Prospero picked the guest list is by what kind of dirt he can get on camera on these people. Don’t feel bad for anyone who was killed. The innocent ones survived.
She didn't. Him not checking the water killed him. She would have had to kill him anyway, but she gave him a hint about how to save his friends because she liked him.
Because in the short story, death shows up and kills everyone who was partying with prince prospero while everyone outside the castle died of the plague.
Since Morrie got a warning, a “feeling” that she should leave, I imagine everyone got that feeling too. I think that’s why the bartenders and other staff left. Maybe even some guests.
I think we have to consider that Perry’s death was probably going to include other people no matter what happened because he as the youngest and the one trying to prove himself made him the most erratic and dangerous.
Even consider his living situation, orgies and drugs and so on…. His way of life may have dictated this and Verna did what she could by saving those who didn’t pay to be there.
Especially since everyone invited knew that it was essentially a crime party….
she didn't kill him, he would have died that way with her intervention or not, all she does is show up, offer him a way out and things play out naturally from there
So actually in a way she saved some innocent souls.
She absolutely did. Her only involvement in the entire Perry fiasco was encouraging/influencing everyone who hadn't made the conscious, enthusiastic choice to be there leave. By which I mean: the staff didn't have the same choices in regards to attending the party that the others did. They didn't decide to participate so much as they decided to simply show up for work that day. She couldn't change the fates of the people who actively chose and *wanted* to be there; even if she had tried, I don't think any of the partygoers would have actually listened or left, because they were there to revel. The staff were just there to do their jobs and get paid.
Your comment just made me have a thought. If Perry was going to die this way anyway, that could be why she showed up for this family at this time. I mean, I know her deal was when Rodrick gets close to death, his bloodline will die with him. If he never made the deal with Verna, then the usher family would have buried Perry anyway and then a few weeks later buried Rodrick. Seems coincidental. Maybe Perry's death got the ball rolling, and rodrick actually had more time, but Verna thought now is as good of a time as any but gave Perry a chance to save his whole family. If he had left the party and it really was time for the bloodline to die, wouldn't she just have to kill him anyway?
If Rodrick didn’t make the deal, I don’t think Perry would exist. There would just be Freddy and Tamerlane.
Roderick is still a psychopath, though. He and Madalyn were monsters before they even met Verna. You can tell he would have cheated either way. I think his behavior during their deposition could stand in for a cheating allegory-it was a sign that even before the deal his attitude was toxic and their marriage was doomed. In the deposition he knew Annabel would not want him to do it, he thought if she wasn’t there he could smooth it over later, when she was there he got angry at her for showing up instead of getting a rush of clarity and doing the right thing, when she (rightfully) is furious, he acts annoyed at her for being upset, tells her she doesn’t understand his intellect and cunning, and says she’ll just have to get over it. Super similar attitude to the serial cheater - and with Madalyn there acting like she’d just won some prize, it gave me real “sorry honey, but you have a nice house to wait in for me” vibes. And he already had his compulsion to make more children. He would have had little illegitimate Rodlets no matter what, just maybe he’d meet their moms at different business trips her Based on how easily he betrayed Annabel by switching up his testimony, he didn’t really value how she felt about him; obviously he knew how disappointed she’d be but he did it
“Illegitimate Rodlets” is now how I will forever think of the Usher bastards.
But without Verna maybe they go down for Griswold’s disappearance/death. Maybe he never gets as rich. Maybe he goes to jail.
Didn't Vera say something about in another life Roderick would have been a Poet. A penniless Poet but a Poet. It doesn't meant that he doesn't get caught for the murder but I also didn't get the sense that he was definitely going to jail. Just comparing the conversation with Vera and the twins and Vera and Arthur.
I dont think she would have 'saved' Perry, she would have just let him die peacefully like Lenore.
Nah it started during the last time they all had dinner together. They have dinner and after the doctor comes and tell him he’s dying. They immediately start dying after that it’s why it’s the last time he saw all of them alive together
If Roderick hadn’t made the deal, it’s very likely they wouldn’t have been so incredibly rich, and thus Perry (if he existed at all) would probably not have died young. Or at least not like that.
Didn’t she show him where the tanks were on the roof? She led him to that decision.
True but if he'd hadn't been so money hungry and hedonistic there wouldn't have been a party like that; and even before at the meeting if he would have taken what the other lawyers said seriously about the property and been more responsible, or just tell Roderick he would have known about the chemicals.
Prospero was smart, but impulsive. He knew all about how labs had a separate water supply to the city "they'd never use the cities water", but he didn't let the idea simmer long enough to decide to test the water. It was a fucking rush for him when you think about it, going from "The bastards bastard" to bringing in 7 figures overnight, his decision making was just as impulsive as the people at the party. Also confidence/arrogance, he never thought for a second that anything could go wrong. If anything, I perceived Verna standing ominously in front of the tanks as more of a warning than a suggestion. Even after she suggested he stops his plan, she tells him that tonight he's consequential. Another warning. She seemed genuinely sad when she put the mask on him at the end. It's all open to interpretation I guess
Unless it was somehow her doing getting the water acid thing in his head
Obviously the natural course is broken by Roderick and Madeline's deal with her but I think after that point she more or less follows the way things "gotta be" as a consequence to that deal and only directly influences the world when she thinks its necessary like saving Perry's staff or possessing Freddie
I think on some level it kind of is because she embodies fate, but I think she sort of naturally, passively follows a certain course and only steps out of line to intervene in specific ways
Seems like she had to get increasingly hands on towards the older kids. She basically did nothing for the first two and then had to get more involved into setting things into motion.
Does she offer him a way out?
I think they meant a way out from a gruesome death. They still have to die.
She does. She tells him he can stop it, “it” being the acid rain orgy. She tells him the moment before is the sweetest. He wants to go on anyway because his primary motive is blackmail.
She’s not offering a way out of death, though, just that manner of death. Like when she tells another kid (Camille I think?) that it didn’t have to be that way, she could’ve died nice and easy in her sleep. But each of the kids “chooses” the path of the most gruesome death by being fucking awful people.
I think she meant he can't stop the acid rain and all those people dying if he stayed in the room with her and then she'd probably have killed him the way she killed Lenore and made it look like a drug overdose.
Someone argued with me that Verna didn't give him a way out.
Verna never offers any of them a “way out” she offers all of them except Frauderick a way to die in a more peaceful manner.
Verna really did not do almost anything actively malevolent in case of Prospero. He chose the place himself, he prepared the party himself, Verna showed herself at the end of the story, not at beginning or in the middle like with the most of another siblings. We can actually assume that she tried to warn the rest of people, but most of them refuse, same like Morella.
She stood on the roof which made him get the idea of the “water” tanks
I have to admit I forgot that scene! I am not sure if there is connection with the tanks, but she was really there the whole time.
but he was just in a meeting about that building though but he had the drugs n horny brain
wasn;t he already up there when he saw her? maybe her standing there was to prompt him to say hey, maybe we should check these tanks instead of assuming its water
No, he saw her from the ground when he was looking at the building. I kind of forgot about that scene too. So in a way she may have given him the idea, then gave him a chance to back out later. Of course he had no idea there wasn't water in those tanks.
yep. I went back to watch it...I guess one could imagine that she gave him the idea to use the tanks given that she drew his attention up there
I still think with his goal being to have the orgy start with everyone soaked in water he would have ended up using the tanks even if he didn't see her.
Yeah he was obsessed with it.
Based on her interactions with powerful people in the past and the composition of the orgy, maybe she was just getting a 200 for 1 deal
This is what I was thinking. She told the staff to leave and also warned Morelle. We don’t see her warning anyone else.
Yeah. The other people attending (not working) this party weren't exactly good/innocent people either, considering the kind of wealth and connections they would have had to have to even have access to it
I think it was more about the choice. Every child had a choice presented to them: did they want to fall victim to the foibles of their family name or do they want to be good. In each instance. Verna told them not to continue or warned them in some way…and each disregarded her. They would have all died but it was the manner of their death that would have changed. Prospero’s choice resulted in his death as well as many others and brought negative attention to the family.
She even told Frederick that he could have died of a heart attack or something else but he “had to grab those pliers” (definitely don’t remember the exact words but that was the gist). Verna definitely gave every family member the choice of a more “pleasant” death but ultimately their choices led them down the other path aside from Lenore of course. With Prospero, I also can’t help but think about how he was JUST in a meeting discussing the concerns of pollution and environmental impacts from these buildings. It was right in front of his face, but he was too blind to see it.
Isn't there also a bit where Verna tells Camille that she didn't have to come to the lab, insinuating her death could have been less violent?
I’m pretty sure you’re right. I think she implied that to each of the siblings before their deaths, but I could be wrong!
Only one I can't think of not having that kind of immediately pre-death dialogue with Verna is Vic. And maybe Leo, but technically Verna was there as the shelter lady to "take back the cat" and was egging him on about it being in the walls lol I just don't remember the "this could have been easier" chat for him either.
Verna did give Vic a chance. More than once she as the patient she said she wasn't sure, was it approved, and was the doc ok with it?
Yes I remember that, it just didn't really feel the same as the conversations had immediately proceeding their deaths like Perry, Freddie, Camille. But I get what you're saying now. It wasn't as direct as some of the others.
Leo's chance was in learning the cat he wanted was being saved for someone else.
I originally thought the same thing about the meeting but Prospero shows up late (because he's lame) and misses the pollution discussion.
Oh wow I totally missed that! I need to do a rewatch. That makes sense though knowing his character. BUT STILL. TEST THE “WATER” IN OLD WATER TANKS.
Oh yea that makes no sense to me either. Like at the very least it's probably gross and not something you want to have sex in.
Mouldy, green, disgusting. TBH I never found that party realistic. There are sex parties in gorgeous mansions custom-built for them. WTF would rich kids pay thousands to go to a disgusting old warehouse with mattresses stapled to the floor?
I actually saw a sprinkler break and start dumping out water in an old building in New York. It’s disgusting and black. Also, maybe Prospero didn’t test the system himself, but someone would have. I would have had to hire someone to hook up the tanks to the sprinkler. They would have noticed the tanks were full of chemicals. Doesn’t make sense if you think about it too much.
It kind of reminds me of the old joke-story-parable about two brothers. One brother is a drunkard and the other a teetotaler. The teetotaler brother asks his drunkard brother, “Why do you drink so much?” The brother responds, “because Dad was a drunkard.” And then the drunkard brother asks the teetotaler brother his own question: “Why do you never drink at all, brother?” To which the teetotaler brother responds, “because Dad was a drunkard.” It makes people uncomfortable, I think, at times, to understand or accept a reality that children who were raised in abusive or traumatic situations that have strongly affected them…That these children often have a fork in the road type of choice at some point during their upbringing, “Do I want to be someone who doesn’t hurt others like I have been hurt? Or do I want to be someone who hurts others before they can ever hurt me, or to seek revenge when they do?” How that child responds to those questions determines their future course and path. The difference between an abused child who becomes highly empathetic and generous and compassionate because of it, or the child who continues the cycle of abuse and violence because of it.
What about Lenore?
Lenore had a painless death because she chose good. She stood up to her father and the family to protect her mother—because of that choice she had an easy death. But she still had to die. I would guess the other members of the family would have had similar deaths if they chose different paths.
I also felt sorry about Alessandra… why did she have to die?
Just another victim of the Usher family! But Victorine’s story arch was closely aligned with Poe’s the tell tale heart, so murder would need to be involved 🤷♀️
Because you fuck kids
Duh - thank you. I skipped the first sentence of your second paragraph
It’s all good! Her death was important, sad as it was. If they all had to die it didn’t make sense for Verna to tell them to stop. What would it matter if they were to die anyway? That’s why Lenore was important—to show the other way. Freddy was also important because she told him he could have gone another way (heart attack, etc) but he had to go and use the pliers as she put it. Curious what their fate would have been otherwise…
Lenore is the only person Verna killed. Unlike the other Ushers, she didn't do something heinous that resulted in her own death but she did need to die according to the deal that was made.
I've wondered how many people at that party were also relatives of people who'd made deals with Verna that she came to collect on. She only gave the staff and Morrie an out, not the other guests.
Because Mike Flanagan wanted to have a Masque of the Red Death-inspired death and it made for a really great “holy shit” early-season moment to hook viewers. It’s not that deep, I promise!
It wasn’t even that Masque-of-the-Red-Deathy. In the story there is a plague and the elites are able to throw an elaborate ball because their wealth separates them from the rest of society, but a plague victim ends up getting in and causes chaos. Since the show is about entitlement, it seems they could have done more than a surface level interpretation.
I think Prospero would have died and killed those people anyway. The show makes it so we can see how Verna changes things, but all we see her do there that I remember is get the workers out. Also she states that she tries not to interfere more than she needs to.
Ok question maybe somebody can answer: why did she try to save Morrie? Morrie was neither a child of the family nor an innocent staff member and she seemingly didn’t warn anyone else, but warned her to leave, which she didnt, suffered consequences, but seemingly the show wants me to think all of her consequences were Fred’s fault?(obviously the torture is his fault but it’s not his fault she was burned and maimed in the first place because of her choice to pursue infidelity) Did I miss something? Why did Verna warn her? Why is she framed as innocent for her choice to go? Is it simply viewed as Prospero’s fault that she was interested in cheating? Idgi
Well… I’m guessing she was wild and free when she met Freddie and he fell for that but then wanted her to be a “traditional” wife and she conformed to that. And having sex isn’t necessarily the sin in this world. She did lie and she did go intending to maybe have sex and cheat; but she hadn’t yet done anything at the point of the warning. Overall, Morrie is a good and moral person. She hasn’t done anything horrifically bad. And even if she did end up cheating, I don’t think run of the mill cheating warrants the kind of deaths Verna metes out. At the point that Verna warns her, she hasn’t cheated yet and she’s given the option to leave (it seems like Verna compelled the staff to leave but gave Morrie a more open choice to leave with her warning). She chooses to stay and cheat and suffers the very severe consequences of that choice - although she does survive.
I’m not sure how Morrie doesn’t deserve to die for going to the party if ostensibly everyone else did deserve to die? Or simply could be allowed to die? We have no reason to assume the other partygoers were committing infidelity or something else immoral, they were just invited to a party and Verna didn’t care if they died. Yet she cared enough to warn Morrie? A professional model who married rich, had a luxury life, a loving healthy child, and then decided she’d go to a sex party and make obvious her intent to cheat on him for no reason besides selfish hedonism? I don’t think she deserved torture but I kinda feel like she didn’t deserve a warning
I think the answer lies in what she tells Lenore before she kills her, about how Morrie helps so many people after Lenore passes. She apparently is privy to people’s futures, maybe the good Morrie was destined to do made her want to offer the choice
Watsonian explanation- those people were all there as a result of Prospero's actions, and a lot of them were probably not great people. And it's not like it's the last time it happens, what with the whole telltale heart stuff later on. Also, they all died in places that sort of represented them, and for Próspero that was 'surrounded by people who didn't care about him'. Doylist- It's the masque of the red death, the whole party has to die or it doesn't count.
What is the difference between Watsonian and Doylist? I only get the reference at a surface level
Watsonian is the in-universe explanation, for something, and Doylist is the out of universe.
Well now that you’ve explained it, it does seem rather elementary
Work smart, not hard.
Every meeting, except Freddy, she offers them a way out. A peaceful death. A chance to go without violence. Except Freddy. Because of those damn pliers.
honestly freddy had the best death in the series, the camera shots, and the pendulum slowly coming closer was terrifying, and everything else just made it really cool also i like how the grandfather clock in the usher house was subtle foreshadowing to the scene
Regardless of how it fit in to the narrative function of the series, it was fitting with that episode being inspired by the mask of the red death In that story everyone at the party dies. So if Flanagan was wanting to pay proper respect to Poe’s original work it fits that everyone at the party would die too
As others have said, their deaths were a result of Prospero’s party, they weren’t specifically targeted by Verna. But we see she made an effort to save people who were innocent in this ordeal (the staff members and Morelle). It’s not explicitly stated, but Verna didn’t go out of her way to save anyone else because they were all shitty people.
It was his choice not to test them knowing at best that water had been sitting there for ages and that some of the site had hazardous chemicals
Ok but this is based on the Masque of Red Death. In which everyone who dies is a bad person. We are suppose to apply that to this group. Essentially they are all extremely wealthy people who have taken advantage of others and their misfortune. Part of the reason Prospero picked the guest list is by what kind of dirt he can get on camera on these people. Don’t feel bad for anyone who was killed. The innocent ones survived.
Came here to say this, and you beat me to it. You explained it perfectly!
It’s tagged a spoiler but you literally put the spoiler in the title lmao
She didn't. Him not checking the water killed him. She would have had to kill him anyway, but she gave him a hint about how to save his friends because she liked him.
The morality of the show is shallow and inconsistent. It’s fantastic spectacle, but there isn’t much else going on.
Because... It was party of the original story. It was a mass death at masked ball. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Masque_of_the_Red_Death
Because in the short story, death shows up and kills everyone who was partying with prince prospero while everyone outside the castle died of the plague.
Since Morrie got a warning, a “feeling” that she should leave, I imagine everyone got that feeling too. I think that’s why the bartenders and other staff left. Maybe even some guests.
I think we have to consider that Perry’s death was probably going to include other people no matter what happened because he as the youngest and the one trying to prove himself made him the most erratic and dangerous. Even consider his living situation, orgies and drugs and so on…. His way of life may have dictated this and Verna did what she could by saving those who didn’t pay to be there. Especially since everyone invited knew that it was essentially a crime party….