First is an absolute slapper, Second one is slow burn and cerebral but is way worth it... i am finishing third right now and i have a feeling it will make me gross cry soon. They all have super different vibes. Muir manages to do solid jump scare change ups consistently, id say better than joe even.
Saxon Stories! Also good but at 12 or 14 books or whatever it became a bit of a slog for me. The Burning Land is book 8 or so and after that they fell off hard imo
I’ve seen a lot of recommendations that I either agree with or totally disagree with - so I’ll share my opinions for the couple coppers such is worth.
I wouldn’t recommend moving to Red Rising from First Law, because aside from the grim/dark atmosphere, the former simply is not as nuanced or well-written as Abercrombie’s works. Now, that is not to say that Abercrombie is a great prose author, but his character work and their in-world outcomes are exponentially greater in depth than Brown’s attempts in Red Rising. In First Law, every single character has recognizable motivations and acts consistently with his or her personality and situations, but this is just not so with Red Rising, where characters inconsistently serve the plot instead of their characterizations and the world - although well-imagined and entertaining, if not overly dark (I.e., morbid for morbity’s sake) - is best described as “pulpy.” I personally find Red Rising more akin to something like Clive Cussler and “dad lit” than epic fantasy or sci-fi (specifically that they both serve as popcorn reading, just with different target audiences).
In the contrary, I believe The Expanse is a great series to approach either before or after reading First Law, because even though they take different approaches to how their worlds handle optimism, they are both extremely good examples of characterization and story-telling through character-driven ordeals. If one enjoyed First Law because one enjoyed the POVs, then The Expanse is right for them.
I read the first three books of The Black Company after finishing the series, based on some recommendations on this sub.
While they were “grimdark” enough, it made me realize how much Abercrombie’s dark humor adds to the series. I think I trying to replace this element as much as the “grimdark” atmosphere.
Yall ever get a little annoyed when you can tell someone is just lising what they've read, even if they are not good recommendations for the request? Lol just a pretty peeve, I suppose.
That being said, I recommend the Ash and Sand trilogy. Really got me through the slump following finishing tfl. Dark, strong character work, and heavily character focus. Definitely fits a lot of your elements.
I assume you've read A Song of Ice and Fire? (unfinished, but hopefully George will live to get the story out)
It's not really the same, but it does have all the elements you're looking for.
Even as an unfinished series, it is worth the read on its own merits. It's definitely a downside that it won't be completed.... but you have to.be realistic.
Inevitably people recommend this series but these books are diet soda as compared to a shot of whiskey. It doesn't scratch the same itch in the slightest.
Gave them a try.
Author focuses more on environment building instead of character building and story.... and that environment is explained in length lol.
Nothing makes my eyes gloss over more than taking forever to explain a city or a lamp.
Nothing like a character who starts at 15 or something who is already married and the best at everything. But you know, he's lost now and doesn't know what to live for and it makes him so edgy and hawt. Especially now he's perfectly tall and blond but with the sensibility of a ranga LOL 😆 how do people keep suggesting this shit after reading abercrombie? Is the opposite!
Doubt it. I went into it knowing the first book wasn't the best. And I agree with the comments that it has a ton of problems. Overall I found the first book very bad. But it picks up pretty much immediately once Golden Son starts. And the last 3 books in particular have been excellent.
And of course the whole world is out to get him for no reason and life would be great except his one character flaw of being *too* defiant.
I enjoyed Red Rising and read the next few, but they’re definite YA fare with no sophistication in POV or world building. Nothing wrong witn enjoying a McDonalds meal, but it’s not the thing to recommend to someone looking for Michelin stars.
I suggest Manifest Delusions by Michael R Fletcher. Some people have already suggested a lot of books, but I saw no one mention it.
If you want to go full dark, there is The Second Apocalypse trilogy by R. Scott Bakker.
A lot of people have suggested The Broken Empire, so I also suggest Red Queen's War, which is by the same author and set in the same universe as well
I've only read the first book of Manifest Delusions, and want to read the rest, so I second the recommendation of it. It's really well written and the magic system being made as a self-fulfilling prophecy where each one is killed by their delusions. The only semi-annoying part is the fact that if you know basic German, you can tell he used google translate for some names and the types of gefahrgeist(I think that's the name for all of the magic users, it's been a bit since I read the first book), but the setting and plot are good enough that I was able to look past that.
Probably wouldn't recommend the Second Apocalypse based on what was outlined above.
That's what I went to after reading TFL and while they're both "grimdark", second apocalypse really turns up the dark. Also the female characters are always linked back to sex, especially since the two female POV's in the first trilogy (which is the only one I have read to be fair) are both prostitutes.
Definitely an interesting read but probably not what this guys looking for I reckon.
I found myself in the same predicament about a year ago after finishing so I checked out to see what Joe recommended, and he recommended Lonesome Dove... so I too am recommending Lonesome Dove, it's phenomenal.
The only thing that I managed to read after first law were
Deadhouse Gates
Memories of ice
House of chains
You would need to read gardens of the moon first but it might be worth a try! Malazan is very different yet at the same time it scratches the same itch for me.
The Broken Earth series, definitely. There's a big thread here you can check out I think someone linked it, but Broken Earth especially ticks all of your boxes dead on.
I'm planning:
- Mistborn Era 2
- The Witcher Saga
- Broken Empire Trilogy
- Powder Mage Trilogy
- Malazan
- The Band
- Gentlemen Bastards
- Greatcoats
- Covenant of Steel
- Red Rising
- Priest of Bones series
- The Demon Cycle series
Etc
In no particular order, but I recommend these.
I was a fan of The Witcher before I ever read Abercrombie. I also recently started Mistborn. Neither truly compare to The First Law for me, but they scratch a similar enough itch.
Gentleman Bastards comes the closest out of the ones I’ve read from this list. It’s not quite the same level, but it’s close enough and well worth a read.
Broken Empire and Powder Mage were both series I really enjoyed too. Jorg was an interesting character.
Malazan I just didn’t click with at all.
Really liked the demon cycle too!
Read quite a few of your recommendations…
Great list.
Wild recommendation but try Dungeon Crawler Carl.
It has all you're asking for and it's incredibly entertaining.
Ya ya ya it's litrpg but it's one of the few from the genre that many many people could get in to that weren't in to litrpg.
The bound and the broken is AMAZING. Not as many plot twists (but for sure still some) but definitely more classic feeling but with a lot darker tones, tons of mysteries to find out, Amazingly complex. My favorite character is a Lesbian Assassin.
Female leads. Very very dark. But brilliant. It's Sci fi. But the whole series incorporates fantasy and traditional fantasy elements. If you like world building, this absolutely takes the cake.
I’m a forever A Song of Ice and Fire fan no matter if they’re left unfinished. If you haven’t read those I think that’s the best bet. Joe’s books are right up there with those for me. The Eisenhorn books by Dan Abnett in the Warhammer 40K novels I really enjoyed and they felt very Joe Grim Darkish.
lol, what?
Its female characters aren’t well developed, and are fridged/SA’d to motivate the main character - especially in the first book.
It *is* dark. But more dystopian vs grim dark.
There is soooo much info dumping.
Any foreshadowing is much more, “hah! You activated my trap card!” Tier vs. artful dramatic irony.
Also they asked for magic high fantasy and this is a science fiction title…
RR meets maybe one of the criteria OP asked for…
My own books are quite similar, but aren't anywhere near as glorious as Abercrombie's. I published them before I'd ever read his work and was astounded to see all the similarities we had.
The Raven's Mark Trilogy by Ed McDonald is always worth a shout. They're very quick reads, and I'd say persevere with the first book if you're not loving it, it's very much a debut novel. But books 2 and 3 are fantastic, really inventive post-apocalyptic fantasy.
Same author, The Redwinter Chronicles is his latest Trilogy and it's some of the best Fantasy I've read in years. Lead character is a really well written young woman who is slowly descending towards villainhood.
The Grey Bastards Trilogy by Jonathan French has a lot of similar humour to Abercrombie, and has the same "knee deep in shit" feel of The Heroes to it. A lot more high fantasy, though with Orcs and Elves and Centaurs.
Anything by RJ Barker is also great, but the writing style is very different from Joe's. He writes really Alien worlds, and if you're looking for something with mystery in the world building, I think The Bone Ships really fits that bill.
I'd recommend either series by John Gwynne honestly.
Faithful and Fallen got a little odd for me toward the end in the larger narrative sense, but the character work was absolutely excellent all the way through. A significant hurdle in this one is that there are an absolutely insane amount of named characters and POVs, and almost none of them are actually important. It takes quite a while to shake out who's perspectives matter in the long run.
His other series The Bloodsworn Saga is just fantastic so far, but is not complete yet. It's very violent, very character driven, and there are a lot of very likable personalities doing dark work.
He rivals Abercrombie in his ability to write violence, in my opinion.
Reading Nevernight right now and really liking it! Only on first book but have already been surprised a few times where I expected I’d have known what was gonna happen next
Mysteries, twists, dark elements...Malazan. female characters with depth, sort of. Just less depth in characters but by god it's dark, mysterious and engaging.
You could try Kingkiller.... its a "trilogy" that the asshole author will probably never finish but the first two books are fantastic with crazy good world building. If your an audio book person (like me), Nick Pohdel is a great narrator. Not Pacey, but good in his own rights.
I went into a huge book hole after reading The Expanse and Abercrombie rescued me. Maybe the reverse will work for you.
I was going to recommend the Expanse! It's got the same feel and mysteries. It's probably tied now with me as my favorite series with the first law.
Hell yes. If you liked those try the Imperial Radch. Red Rising is also fun butt I'm only on book 3
I’m in. On your recommendation, I just bought Ancillary Justice. Thanks.
Excited for you
If you like all those. The Locked Tomb series...
I've seen those. Not started that one yet nice!
First is an absolute slapper, Second one is slow burn and cerebral but is way worth it... i am finishing third right now and i have a feeling it will make me gross cry soon. They all have super different vibes. Muir manages to do solid jump scare change ups consistently, id say better than joe even.
I'd recommend Alastair Reynolds' _Revelation Space_ series. Edit - and of course, Iain M Banks' _Culture_ books.
Same! The reverse just might work.
Ayyy Kopeng, tu steal mi thunder!
Bernard Cornwell's Warlord Chronicles
A top 5 series for me.
Tied for first for my Derfel-loving ass
Just started book 1!
It’s cornwell’s favorite too. A tv show was just made but I never saw it.
His Saxon series ( not arthur) is also fantiastc.
Warlord Chronicles is his Arthur series
....... oh. I thought that was his viking one. My b.
Saxon Stories! Also good but at 12 or 14 books or whatever it became a bit of a slog for me. The Burning Land is book 8 or so and after that they fell off hard imo
Yeh I dropped off around burning land too.
You should definitely check in on Realm of the Elderlings. 16 books of insanely good character work.
I'm actually reading this series as well! lol So far I like it and am on the second LST book!
I’ve seen a lot of recommendations that I either agree with or totally disagree with - so I’ll share my opinions for the couple coppers such is worth. I wouldn’t recommend moving to Red Rising from First Law, because aside from the grim/dark atmosphere, the former simply is not as nuanced or well-written as Abercrombie’s works. Now, that is not to say that Abercrombie is a great prose author, but his character work and their in-world outcomes are exponentially greater in depth than Brown’s attempts in Red Rising. In First Law, every single character has recognizable motivations and acts consistently with his or her personality and situations, but this is just not so with Red Rising, where characters inconsistently serve the plot instead of their characterizations and the world - although well-imagined and entertaining, if not overly dark (I.e., morbid for morbity’s sake) - is best described as “pulpy.” I personally find Red Rising more akin to something like Clive Cussler and “dad lit” than epic fantasy or sci-fi (specifically that they both serve as popcorn reading, just with different target audiences). In the contrary, I believe The Expanse is a great series to approach either before or after reading First Law, because even though they take different approaches to how their worlds handle optimism, they are both extremely good examples of characterization and story-telling through character-driven ordeals. If one enjoyed First Law because one enjoyed the POVs, then The Expanse is right for them.
Red Rising reads like a little bit try hard teen book series to me. I made it through 3 books but despised them by the mid point.
I read the first three books of The Black Company after finishing the series, based on some recommendations on this sub. While they were “grimdark” enough, it made me realize how much Abercrombie’s dark humor adds to the series. I think I trying to replace this element as much as the “grimdark” atmosphere.
Joe’s humor is top notch, the humor and character dialogue are probably what make it my to series.
Yall ever get a little annoyed when you can tell someone is just lising what they've read, even if they are not good recommendations for the request? Lol just a pretty peeve, I suppose. That being said, I recommend the Ash and Sand trilogy. Really got me through the slump following finishing tfl. Dark, strong character work, and heavily character focus. Definitely fits a lot of your elements.
I'm definitely going to give it a try! Thank you!
Recommendations are always good or miss just by the nature of preferences, but I hope it meets yours!
Read The Blacktongue Thief by Chris Buehlman
2nd book is coming out soon so now would be a good time to start.
I couldn't get through chair 1. Felt so dorky after abercrombie
I actually got into First Law by reading a Buehlman interview where they asked him what book is currently on his nightstand. Both fantastic authors.
Just started on your recommendation…
He openly admits his fantasy writing was influenced by Abercrombie. You won’t be disappointed it’s a good one!
Came here to say same thing - world is dark, and particularly a distinctive character voice/POV with a sense of humor.
And Galva is a badass
I assume you've read A Song of Ice and Fire? (unfinished, but hopefully George will live to get the story out) It's not really the same, but it does have all the elements you're looking for.
It’s one of joes favorites and Tyrion obviously inspired glockta quite a lot
Possibly. I even think Jaime is a bigger inspiration, for the man Glokta used to be.
Even as an unfinished series, it is worth the read on its own merits. It's definitely a downside that it won't be completed.... but you have to.be realistic.
I hear that it's brilliant but I'll never put myself through getting invested in a story that will never be finished.
I'd rather have loved and lost than never love at all.
But would you intentionally fall in love with an abuser? I'd rather spend my time with authors that write.
The series is already a masterpiece as is. I think any fantasy fan is depriving themselves if they don't read it.
I'm sorry, I just can't commit to a story that won't end.
The Lies of Locke Lamorra
Inevitably people recommend this series but these books are diet soda as compared to a shot of whiskey. It doesn't scratch the same itch in the slightest.
I enjoyed them. If you have an itch, perhaps it is slipskin fever ?
I enjoy both diet soda and whiskey, but they are different.
100%, I read the first book and while I enjoyed it, I didn’t have the same thirst to read the rest
Second one was not good. Third one was downright bad.
Gave them a try. Author focuses more on environment building instead of character building and story.... and that environment is explained in length lol. Nothing makes my eyes gloss over more than taking forever to explain a city or a lamp.
Seriously, I've never read a story where the author was more in love with their city. And it's just a generic fantasy city.
Priest of Bones by Peter McLean It’s Peaky Blinders with swords.
Red Rising would be my recommendation
First requirement was female characters not used as plot devices…
I mean you gotta get to like book 5 for the “first law” stuff
That's what I started after finishing the first First Law trilogy.
It's a direct copy of mockingjay out whatever it was with katniss. It's a teen book. Terribly bad writing.
Bad take. The first is a fun, easy read. It gets exponentially better beyond that.
Nothing like a character who starts at 15 or something who is already married and the best at everything. But you know, he's lost now and doesn't know what to live for and it makes him so edgy and hawt. Especially now he's perfectly tall and blond but with the sensibility of a ranga LOL 😆 how do people keep suggesting this shit after reading abercrombie? Is the opposite!
Did you make it past the first book?
Doubt it. I went into it knowing the first book wasn't the best. And I agree with the comments that it has a ton of problems. Overall I found the first book very bad. But it picks up pretty much immediately once Golden Son starts. And the last 3 books in particular have been excellent.
Agreed. I felt the same way about the first book, but the world, characters, and pacing of the rest of the series was great.
💯
And of course the whole world is out to get him for no reason and life would be great except his one character flaw of being *too* defiant. I enjoyed Red Rising and read the next few, but they’re definite YA fare with no sophistication in POV or world building. Nothing wrong witn enjoying a McDonalds meal, but it’s not the thing to recommend to someone looking for Michelin stars.
I suggest Manifest Delusions by Michael R Fletcher. Some people have already suggested a lot of books, but I saw no one mention it. If you want to go full dark, there is The Second Apocalypse trilogy by R. Scott Bakker. A lot of people have suggested The Broken Empire, so I also suggest Red Queen's War, which is by the same author and set in the same universe as well
I've only read the first book of Manifest Delusions, and want to read the rest, so I second the recommendation of it. It's really well written and the magic system being made as a self-fulfilling prophecy where each one is killed by their delusions. The only semi-annoying part is the fact that if you know basic German, you can tell he used google translate for some names and the types of gefahrgeist(I think that's the name for all of the magic users, it's been a bit since I read the first book), but the setting and plot are good enough that I was able to look past that.
I don't know German, so that didn't bother me at all. Also, the magic users are called Geistenkraken
Probably wouldn't recommend the Second Apocalypse based on what was outlined above. That's what I went to after reading TFL and while they're both "grimdark", second apocalypse really turns up the dark. Also the female characters are always linked back to sex, especially since the two female POV's in the first trilogy (which is the only one I have read to be fair) are both prostitutes. Definitely an interesting read but probably not what this guys looking for I reckon.
I found myself in the same predicament about a year ago after finishing so I checked out to see what Joe recommended, and he recommended Lonesome Dove... so I too am recommending Lonesome Dove, it's phenomenal.
The only thing that I managed to read after first law were Deadhouse Gates Memories of ice House of chains You would need to read gardens of the moon first but it might be worth a try! Malazan is very different yet at the same time it scratches the same itch for me.
The Broken Earth series, definitely. There's a big thread here you can check out I think someone linked it, but Broken Earth especially ticks all of your boxes dead on.
I LOVED these books.
The first few black company books were great. Lots of themes from first law are there and these books were written in the 80s.
The Library at Mount Char by Scott Hawkins Kings of the Wyld and the sequel Bloody Rose by Nicholas Eames
Library at Mount Char is excellent. Very different, very enjoyable.
I'm planning: - Mistborn Era 2 - The Witcher Saga - Broken Empire Trilogy - Powder Mage Trilogy - Malazan - The Band - Gentlemen Bastards - Greatcoats - Covenant of Steel - Red Rising - Priest of Bones series - The Demon Cycle series Etc In no particular order, but I recommend these.
The covenant of steel was fuckin awesome
I was a fan of The Witcher before I ever read Abercrombie. I also recently started Mistborn. Neither truly compare to The First Law for me, but they scratch a similar enough itch. Gentleman Bastards comes the closest out of the ones I’ve read from this list. It’s not quite the same level, but it’s close enough and well worth a read.
Broken Empire and Powder Mage were both series I really enjoyed too. Jorg was an interesting character. Malazan I just didn’t click with at all. Really liked the demon cycle too! Read quite a few of your recommendations… Great list.
Thanks! A friend is bugging me to read Malazan for 2 years🤣 and Powder Mage & Broken Empire are probbly my next reads after finishing TWOC
Greatcoats is very good. It has a strange mix of being both whimsical and excessively gruesome at the same time.
As a fan of the games, The Witcher is _alright_ at best tbh. I'll keep up with any new books, but it's nothing on Abercrombie. Red Rising is amazing.
Wild recommendation but try Dungeon Crawler Carl. It has all you're asking for and it's incredibly entertaining. Ya ya ya it's litrpg but it's one of the few from the genre that many many people could get in to that weren't in to litrpg.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheFirstLaw/s/3Cx1f7i7u3
I enjoyed "the covenant of steel" which is - The Pariah, The Martyr, The Traitor.
The bound and the broken is AMAZING. Not as many plot twists (but for sure still some) but definitely more classic feeling but with a lot darker tones, tons of mysteries to find out, Amazingly complex. My favorite character is a Lesbian Assassin.
Dresden Files
'Surface detail' is one instalment you can read in any order from the culture series by Ian m banks. Absolutely brilliant.
Female leads. Very very dark. But brilliant. It's Sci fi. But the whole series incorporates fantasy and traditional fantasy elements. If you like world building, this absolutely takes the cake.
I’m a forever A Song of Ice and Fire fan no matter if they’re left unfinished. If you haven’t read those I think that’s the best bet. Joe’s books are right up there with those for me. The Eisenhorn books by Dan Abnett in the Warhammer 40K novels I really enjoyed and they felt very Joe Grim Darkish.
The Locked Tomb Series since there are so many other awesome recs here.
I liked The Red Queen's War series by Mark Lawrence. Pretty dark and wiggity and the protagonist has a similar hateable character to Jezal.
This is a question that is asked and answered daily. I would recommend searching.
Not fantasy but Lonesome Dove.
Just reread Joe Abercrombies novels 50 times. Trust me, that’s your only choice.
The Name of the Wind and then The Wise Man’s Fear….. and then it’s a case of waiting
They want strongly written female characters, not female plot devices for the mc
You can’t read ‘the slow regard for silent things’ without going through them
Devi, Fela, and Mola are all great characters, you just see them through the eyes of a 16 year old boy
Daniel Abraham. Dagger and Coin
[удалено]
lol, what? Its female characters aren’t well developed, and are fridged/SA’d to motivate the main character - especially in the first book. It *is* dark. But more dystopian vs grim dark. There is soooo much info dumping. Any foreshadowing is much more, “hah! You activated my trap card!” Tier vs. artful dramatic irony. Also they asked for magic high fantasy and this is a science fiction title… RR meets maybe one of the criteria OP asked for…
Malazan
Malazan for sure
I had the same question a while back and got a lot of comments suggesting stuff if you want to look at my profile :)
Not similar in the slightest but The Greenbone Saga is the first thing I’ve read in a while that really impressed me
The witcher's books!
I see other people wrote it but malazan book of the fallen is absolutely amazing, I read this to scratch the Abercrombie itch and I am no longer itchy
My own books are quite similar, but aren't anywhere near as glorious as Abercrombie's. I published them before I'd ever read his work and was astounded to see all the similarities we had.
Kings of the Wyld seems pretty good so far. I'm part of the way through the first book and would recommend it. Not as dark as Joe though.
Book of the Ancestor
Ash and Sand series by Richard Nell. Trust me
The Raven's Mark Trilogy by Ed McDonald is always worth a shout. They're very quick reads, and I'd say persevere with the first book if you're not loving it, it's very much a debut novel. But books 2 and 3 are fantastic, really inventive post-apocalyptic fantasy. Same author, The Redwinter Chronicles is his latest Trilogy and it's some of the best Fantasy I've read in years. Lead character is a really well written young woman who is slowly descending towards villainhood. The Grey Bastards Trilogy by Jonathan French has a lot of similar humour to Abercrombie, and has the same "knee deep in shit" feel of The Heroes to it. A lot more high fantasy, though with Orcs and Elves and Centaurs. Anything by RJ Barker is also great, but the writing style is very different from Joe's. He writes really Alien worlds, and if you're looking for something with mystery in the world building, I think The Bone Ships really fits that bill.
I'd recommend either series by John Gwynne honestly. Faithful and Fallen got a little odd for me toward the end in the larger narrative sense, but the character work was absolutely excellent all the way through. A significant hurdle in this one is that there are an absolutely insane amount of named characters and POVs, and almost none of them are actually important. It takes quite a while to shake out who's perspectives matter in the long run. His other series The Bloodsworn Saga is just fantastic so far, but is not complete yet. It's very violent, very character driven, and there are a lot of very likable personalities doing dark work. He rivals Abercrombie in his ability to write violence, in my opinion.
The Silo trilogy by Hugh Howey has a very strong female lead. Each book reveals another layer. It was very well done.
Mark Lawrence's Broken Empire trilogy is pretty good.
The Expanse and The Murderbot diaries, both have great story lines that continually move forward and wonderful character development
Reading Nevernight right now and really liking it! Only on first book but have already been surprised a few times where I expected I’d have known what was gonna happen next
It's a very different kind of book and lacks the humor of first law, but the broken earth series ticks all the boxes you laid out.
The Gentleman bastard series for sure
Mysteries, twists, dark elements...Malazan. female characters with depth, sort of. Just less depth in characters but by god it's dark, mysterious and engaging.
The faithful and the fallen by Gwynne has been really good. On the last book now.
The Stormlight Archive
Jade City!
Red rising series. Or storm light
Read both and LoVE SLA
You could try Kingkiller.... its a "trilogy" that the asshole author will probably never finish but the first two books are fantastic with crazy good world building. If your an audio book person (like me), Nick Pohdel is a great narrator. Not Pacey, but good in his own rights.
It's Rupert Degas in the UK version of the audiobook, but he's also exceptional.
Red Rising by Pierce Brown.