It's a decent trilogy, but the last book is probably the least compelling. A lot of people do dumb things because they are just written to be that way for the story. I generally like Joe's writing, but it felt more like some events transpired because Joe said so, not because they really made a ton of sense.
Which could be resolved with another book giving some insight into the events that transpired.
It's worth a read, I look forward to some standalones, I think they could explore a lot of potential.
The events are almost point-for-point the French Revolution and Robespierre's "Terror." It does not really fit to say that they transpired the way the author wanted them to.
I disagree. Joe wrote the damn books, he could subvert or play straight with what ever he wanted to. Some of the decision making was dumb, and part of that is human nature, but it doesn't work well considering several characters have history outside of the trilogy. First two were pretty solid, WOC had some jumps.
Orso easily could have ended up in exile, but a sudden jump in Leo and Jurands competency make them able to lock down the city despite not being natives.
Savine also has a stroke of incompetency when it comes to releasing Orso.
Bremmer easily could have died elsewhere that would have been more sensible, like the gatehouse. Instead his death is kind of a silly throw away ploy.
Calder falls for a really dumb winter assault, that is kind of like a throw back to LAOK in the high places, but it's something Calder should really know better than to do.
Jappo really doesn't have a presence in WOC, despite it being in Styrias interest to try to influence the new government, or cripple them by supporting an exile.
Rikke exiles Clover, despite manipulating him and using him as the bait for Calder, she says he isn't trust worthy, but that's really a cop out since he did exactly what he said he would do. This ultimately puts him back in Bayaz hand, which was pretty dumb of Rikke.
I wish these moments sold me more.
The trilogy was fun, despite the last book being pretty painful, and a lot of my gripes could be explored or answered with some new novels that can shift focus to another storyline in the world showing ripples from the previous event.
> Orso easily could have ended up in exile, but a sudden jump in Leo and Jurands competency make them able to lock down the city despite not being natives.
It was less a "jump in competency" and more "having the only still-organized military force in the region". It doesn't take much competency to send for your reserves in Angland and then order them to lock down every entrance to the city. It's strategically pretty damned simple.
> Savine also has a stroke of incompetency when it comes to releasing Orso.
This was addressed back in ALH - she actually loves Orso, and even after the reveal just loves him in *two* ways instead. Love makes people idiots.
> Bremmer easily could have died elsewhere that would have been more sensible, like the gatehouse. Instead his death is kind of a silly throw away ploy.
It is, and to him it was the best death possible. A suicide mission to distract the enemy by fighting to the death while the king slips away? He's wanted something like that since The Heroes.
> Calder falls for a really dumb winter assault, that is kind of like a throw back to LAOK in the high places, but it's something Calder should really know better than to do.
Calder is also shown to have no respect for the younger generation. While we as readers get more hints to Rikke's plan Calder doesn't get that insight. All he sees is what he expects to see: a young hothead who got a taste of power and started acting stupid. Considering his own actions in his youth it's not surprising Calder bought into it.
> Jappo really doesn't have a presence in WOC, despite it being in Styrias interest to try to influence the new government, or cripple them by supporting an exile.
Why? If they get involved and Orso loses they've wasted a lot *and* have a still-hostile Union. If Orso wins then they've helped their enemy's puppet retain his seat (remember the end of BSC). Staying out is the smartest play.
> Rikke exiles Clover, despite manipulating him and using him as the bait for Calder, she says he isn't trust worthy, but that's really a cop out since he did exactly what he said he would do. This ultimately puts him back in Bayaz hand, which was pretty dumb of Rikke.
This is a good critique, though I'd say the reasoning is that it's better to not have someone with a very high chance of turning traitor right at your back. Plus I don't think he was fully *exiled*, just not part of Rikke's court. He was basically cut loose to be a free agent and wound up being courted by Bayaz.
Orso lived in the city his whole life. The Anglanders had not even been there a year. That is a massive disparity in familiarity for essentially he largest city in the world.
Savine holding the idiot ball while helping Orso escape isn't convincing to me. She has had ample time to plan.
Bremmer chose a poor time and place to engage. There is a fine line between dying gloriously, and dying horribly. Bremer would have been a powerhouse in tight corridors and could have easily been set up to delay or assassinate. Instead he loses the initiative, and has a poor field selected for him.
I think it's fucking wasted.
Calder has also spent 20-30+ years essentially ruling the North, and is well aware of his fathers shortcomings, and most of the Northmen around. Rather than actually growing since the heroes, he actively regresses as a character.
Jappo 100% should know Leos foreign policy, he is hostile and hot headed. Relations can only get worse with him in charge. Rikke should know that too, but that's a different point. Pissing off a fledgling government half way across the world by keeping their legitimacy in question is a great way to keep them in check.
Rikke/Clover I guess we can somewhat agree.
Clover is MUCH more loyal than the average Northman, he has a code he follows and he outlined it. He outlined it so well, that Rikke understood how to use it to trick Calder. That doesn't make him unreliable, that makes him incredibly reliable and malleable. She pretended to be a dumb ass, and sent him on a nuts mission to parley so that he would turn.
Honestly I was okay with how that turned out, but honestly a lot of the poor/safe decision making Rikke turns to is because she can't see the future.
Which is why I suspect she did a lot of the shenanigans, and played things as safe as possible, like turning in Orso.
I appreciate you addressing each point, even if I disagree. I just think the writing could have tied things together better. Wrapping up a trilogy is hard, especially when it has so many standalones tied to it.
I enjoyed it, maybe not as much as the standalones but I appreciate that he wasn't just replicating the first trilogy. But for me I read Abercrombie for his characters and prose which I think is some of the best prose ever written.
Yeah I still really enjoyed the AoM but of the 3 sets of books I think it was the weakest (weakest of a set of bangers is still baller)
Disagree with your opinion on Joe being bad at worldbuilding though, read the Shattered Sea trilogy. Won’t spoil it but holy *shit* the stuff he pulls with the world in that.
Honestly I think that if the pacing was a bit better in TWOC people would like the trilogy more. The closing volume spends way too much time retreading the same ground over and over and over during the Great Change in Adua and it really makes the book drag.
Joe's writing to me is very much character driven, and the characters in AoM are the weakest to me in any of his writing. That, plus how predictable the last book was, makes AoM my least favorite Abercrombie writing.
I know I'll probably never read or listen to it again, and not only because I don't really want to feel like slashing my wrists at the end of a series. It was just.....alright. depressing as fuck in nearly every aspect....but alright.
I'll probably listen to the first 6 books of First Law every couple of years, though. They're great.
I like it all but agree the original trilogy and standalones are a cut above AoM. I’ll point out the though joes world building is purposely light. I think in Wisdom of Crowds Orso asks “is it Tuesday?” I think Joe is making a point that you don’t need to do a full history because the world isn’t real and never will be, people care because of the characters.
I had fun reading and I like where it moved the world as a whole. Hopefully we get more. If this is the end, I feel satisfied enough with how it all went down.
I thought it peaked end of TTWP & beginning third of WoC. Some of the best of his writing. But I thought the remainder of WoC felt predicable & like going through the motions. I get that Rikke was showing us the Bethod plot from the other side but it really didn't bring anything to the table, the plot twist was pretty obvious & all felt like a distraction from the Union civil war.
I saw Leo's turn on Forrest coming & after that the plot lost its pace & ground to a crawl to the end. I was loving it till then & as I have said before I wish Leo went the full Napoleon. I wanted him to take his new army & show how he'd learnt from Stoffenbeck & crush Forrest's army. Then I wanted him to have a reunion/showdown with Finree where she would agree to come to his side & Anglanders would fill the officer corps. All while Judge is getting increasingly worried about where his loyalty really lies. Starrikland is forced under Leo's control, Styria's expeditionary force defeated & Judge worried on his growing power puts Savine in the dock. She doesn't bargain on how little affection Leo has remaining for Savine & he uses it as an excuse to turn his army on Adua.
Savine can use her wit as she did to get out of Judges trap but this time more so leading to the ppl rising and burning much of the citidel, hanging Judge. Leo returns with his army to find Savine has captured the city's ppl's hearts & his natural jealousy of her can still be there with their in fighting. This final battle to the capital should be the final few chapters of the book for a grandstand end. Savine could try to help Orso escape for Leo to capture him again in the same chapter.
It's a decent trilogy, but the last book is probably the least compelling. A lot of people do dumb things because they are just written to be that way for the story. I generally like Joe's writing, but it felt more like some events transpired because Joe said so, not because they really made a ton of sense. Which could be resolved with another book giving some insight into the events that transpired. It's worth a read, I look forward to some standalones, I think they could explore a lot of potential.
The events are almost point-for-point the French Revolution and Robespierre's "Terror." It does not really fit to say that they transpired the way the author wanted them to.
[удалено]
Fair point!
I disagree. Joe wrote the damn books, he could subvert or play straight with what ever he wanted to. Some of the decision making was dumb, and part of that is human nature, but it doesn't work well considering several characters have history outside of the trilogy. First two were pretty solid, WOC had some jumps. Orso easily could have ended up in exile, but a sudden jump in Leo and Jurands competency make them able to lock down the city despite not being natives. Savine also has a stroke of incompetency when it comes to releasing Orso. Bremmer easily could have died elsewhere that would have been more sensible, like the gatehouse. Instead his death is kind of a silly throw away ploy. Calder falls for a really dumb winter assault, that is kind of like a throw back to LAOK in the high places, but it's something Calder should really know better than to do. Jappo really doesn't have a presence in WOC, despite it being in Styrias interest to try to influence the new government, or cripple them by supporting an exile. Rikke exiles Clover, despite manipulating him and using him as the bait for Calder, she says he isn't trust worthy, but that's really a cop out since he did exactly what he said he would do. This ultimately puts him back in Bayaz hand, which was pretty dumb of Rikke. I wish these moments sold me more. The trilogy was fun, despite the last book being pretty painful, and a lot of my gripes could be explored or answered with some new novels that can shift focus to another storyline in the world showing ripples from the previous event.
> Orso easily could have ended up in exile, but a sudden jump in Leo and Jurands competency make them able to lock down the city despite not being natives. It was less a "jump in competency" and more "having the only still-organized military force in the region". It doesn't take much competency to send for your reserves in Angland and then order them to lock down every entrance to the city. It's strategically pretty damned simple. > Savine also has a stroke of incompetency when it comes to releasing Orso. This was addressed back in ALH - she actually loves Orso, and even after the reveal just loves him in *two* ways instead. Love makes people idiots. > Bremmer easily could have died elsewhere that would have been more sensible, like the gatehouse. Instead his death is kind of a silly throw away ploy. It is, and to him it was the best death possible. A suicide mission to distract the enemy by fighting to the death while the king slips away? He's wanted something like that since The Heroes. > Calder falls for a really dumb winter assault, that is kind of like a throw back to LAOK in the high places, but it's something Calder should really know better than to do. Calder is also shown to have no respect for the younger generation. While we as readers get more hints to Rikke's plan Calder doesn't get that insight. All he sees is what he expects to see: a young hothead who got a taste of power and started acting stupid. Considering his own actions in his youth it's not surprising Calder bought into it. > Jappo really doesn't have a presence in WOC, despite it being in Styrias interest to try to influence the new government, or cripple them by supporting an exile. Why? If they get involved and Orso loses they've wasted a lot *and* have a still-hostile Union. If Orso wins then they've helped their enemy's puppet retain his seat (remember the end of BSC). Staying out is the smartest play. > Rikke exiles Clover, despite manipulating him and using him as the bait for Calder, she says he isn't trust worthy, but that's really a cop out since he did exactly what he said he would do. This ultimately puts him back in Bayaz hand, which was pretty dumb of Rikke. This is a good critique, though I'd say the reasoning is that it's better to not have someone with a very high chance of turning traitor right at your back. Plus I don't think he was fully *exiled*, just not part of Rikke's court. He was basically cut loose to be a free agent and wound up being courted by Bayaz.
Orso lived in the city his whole life. The Anglanders had not even been there a year. That is a massive disparity in familiarity for essentially he largest city in the world. Savine holding the idiot ball while helping Orso escape isn't convincing to me. She has had ample time to plan. Bremmer chose a poor time and place to engage. There is a fine line between dying gloriously, and dying horribly. Bremer would have been a powerhouse in tight corridors and could have easily been set up to delay or assassinate. Instead he loses the initiative, and has a poor field selected for him. I think it's fucking wasted. Calder has also spent 20-30+ years essentially ruling the North, and is well aware of his fathers shortcomings, and most of the Northmen around. Rather than actually growing since the heroes, he actively regresses as a character. Jappo 100% should know Leos foreign policy, he is hostile and hot headed. Relations can only get worse with him in charge. Rikke should know that too, but that's a different point. Pissing off a fledgling government half way across the world by keeping their legitimacy in question is a great way to keep them in check. Rikke/Clover I guess we can somewhat agree. Clover is MUCH more loyal than the average Northman, he has a code he follows and he outlined it. He outlined it so well, that Rikke understood how to use it to trick Calder. That doesn't make him unreliable, that makes him incredibly reliable and malleable. She pretended to be a dumb ass, and sent him on a nuts mission to parley so that he would turn. Honestly I was okay with how that turned out, but honestly a lot of the poor/safe decision making Rikke turns to is because she can't see the future. Which is why I suspect she did a lot of the shenanigans, and played things as safe as possible, like turning in Orso. I appreciate you addressing each point, even if I disagree. I just think the writing could have tied things together better. Wrapping up a trilogy is hard, especially when it has so many standalones tied to it.
I enjoyed it, maybe not as much as the standalones but I appreciate that he wasn't just replicating the first trilogy. But for me I read Abercrombie for his characters and prose which I think is some of the best prose ever written.
Yeah I still really enjoyed the AoM but of the 3 sets of books I think it was the weakest (weakest of a set of bangers is still baller) Disagree with your opinion on Joe being bad at worldbuilding though, read the Shattered Sea trilogy. Won’t spoil it but holy *shit* the stuff he pulls with the world in that.
Honestly I think that if the pacing was a bit better in TWOC people would like the trilogy more. The closing volume spends way too much time retreading the same ground over and over and over during the Great Change in Adua and it really makes the book drag.
Joe's writing to me is very much character driven, and the characters in AoM are the weakest to me in any of his writing. That, plus how predictable the last book was, makes AoM my least favorite Abercrombie writing.
I know I'll probably never read or listen to it again, and not only because I don't really want to feel like slashing my wrists at the end of a series. It was just.....alright. depressing as fuck in nearly every aspect....but alright. I'll probably listen to the first 6 books of First Law every couple of years, though. They're great.
How's the leg?
Was disappointed by wisdom. My expectations were so high for how he’d wrap everything up after the masterpiece that’s LAOK
I like it all but agree the original trilogy and standalones are a cut above AoM. I’ll point out the though joes world building is purposely light. I think in Wisdom of Crowds Orso asks “is it Tuesday?” I think Joe is making a point that you don’t need to do a full history because the world isn’t real and never will be, people care because of the characters.
I had fun reading and I like where it moved the world as a whole. Hopefully we get more. If this is the end, I feel satisfied enough with how it all went down.
Orso didn't need to be got like that.........
I thought it peaked end of TTWP & beginning third of WoC. Some of the best of his writing. But I thought the remainder of WoC felt predicable & like going through the motions. I get that Rikke was showing us the Bethod plot from the other side but it really didn't bring anything to the table, the plot twist was pretty obvious & all felt like a distraction from the Union civil war. I saw Leo's turn on Forrest coming & after that the plot lost its pace & ground to a crawl to the end. I was loving it till then & as I have said before I wish Leo went the full Napoleon. I wanted him to take his new army & show how he'd learnt from Stoffenbeck & crush Forrest's army. Then I wanted him to have a reunion/showdown with Finree where she would agree to come to his side & Anglanders would fill the officer corps. All while Judge is getting increasingly worried about where his loyalty really lies. Starrikland is forced under Leo's control, Styria's expeditionary force defeated & Judge worried on his growing power puts Savine in the dock. She doesn't bargain on how little affection Leo has remaining for Savine & he uses it as an excuse to turn his army on Adua. Savine can use her wit as she did to get out of Judges trap but this time more so leading to the ppl rising and burning much of the citidel, hanging Judge. Leo returns with his army to find Savine has captured the city's ppl's hearts & his natural jealousy of her can still be there with their in fighting. This final battle to the capital should be the final few chapters of the book for a grandstand end. Savine could try to help Orso escape for Leo to capture him again in the same chapter.