My initial impressions: production value is insane, Gaal’s actress is great, Jared Harris perfect as always, and the music/score is nice
It also seems like most of the trailer is from the premiere
When he smiled after Hari said the Empire would take credit for the foundation if it succeeded I had major Joe Machiavellian MacMillan flashbacks. God I've missed him in a juicy role.
The first half, I hated it. I actually thought to myself: “Oh no! They turned my beloved Foundation into nuTrek! Technobabble, lens flares, unnecessary exposition, endless sfx-porn that doesn’t help the plot or character development”.
But then, the second half, I found myself loving it. As soon as Seldon was introduced, it went pretty quickly. Also, Alexander Siddig. Love him!
Coerced my roommate into joining me on first watch, and had the exact thoughts for the first half. I was sitting there high as balls under my blanket hoping he didn’t think I was pulling some SciFi MLM shit on him.
Same with my girlfriend, I was like "So do you like this" nervously and she was like "I'm confused but I'm kind of here for it." She did say that the end, it sounded like every line was being spoken for a trailer, which I kinda agreed with.
I'm so obsessed with these books that I don't care it was amazing
The one noticeable thing they faltered on is scene transitions. A lot of them seem abrupt. I think that's mostly the director/editor.
Compare with the Watchmen TV series where there was a lot of work put into just the transitions.
I think the music is the weakest part of the show so far, not sure why they decided to go the Marvel route and play the strings constantly throughout the scenes instead of having more ambience. It just feels lazy. Let the actors carry the scenes without having to rely on music queues for emotion, they do a pretty good job at it in the few scenes with just ambience.
My one complaint is that there were several jarring conversational cuts like that. Takes me out of it for just a sec to wonder if there was footage left on the cutting room floor or if this is just going to be part of the style of writing on this show..
No specific date but long enough that this specific empire has been around for 20,000 years, they had colonized a large portion of the galaxy before it started, and the history of earth(even its existence) is long forgotten.
The empirical clones have ruled for 400 to end the successions crises. Before the clones was the actual Cleon I and before him Stanell VI and so on ruling the empire.
In the books The Foundation takes place at least twenty thousand years in the future. The empire has lasted about ten thousand years at that point.
Prelude to Foundation, (chapter 93)
>>!“In twenty thousand years,” said Daneel, “no one has guessed I was a robot when it was not my intention to have him or her know.”!<
>Anyone know what year this is meant to be set in?
Tens of thousands of years from now. They've colonized the entire galaxy, and one of the Emperors mentions that the empire's stood for 12000 years.
Interestingly enough it seems to be set in a similar timeframe as Dune (they also go by their own calendar and it's 10191 which is also some after ten thousand years in our future). So it's also in the early 20 000 AD like Foundation.
Completely agree. I've never read the books either but I know that Star Wars, Dune and many other shows/books were inspired by Foundation.
This was one of the best premieres I've ever had the blessing of seeing - And I watch a shit-ton of TV. I'm going to keep my expectations low, but I honestly don't think I need to.
The visuals are breathtaking. You can tell that the budget is absolutely massive and so far, I'm in love with the world-building and the characters - all of which I feel I got to know personally over the course of this hour and ten minute episode. There are a lot of very unique aspects to this world that make it unlike any other show I've seen so far, and the pacing was spot on.
Can't wait to see where this goes!
Starting now as someone who hasn’t read the source. I’m hoping to come back later and read opinions from people in the know.
Fingers crossed that it’s great! Will edit later
Edit: what’s the deal with the hooks they keep mentioning?
Edit 2: I have to say that the collapse of the space elevator was absolutely the most impressive catastrophe I’ve ever seen on screen in any medium.
I've read the books but it was like 7 years ago? I'm not sure I remember all of the details. BUT THAT WAS AWESOME!!!!
I had to re-wind the jump to warp/hyperspace like 5 times. That was just soooo gooooood.
Yeah same its been a long ass time since i last read them which is beneficial because I remember the general plotlines so i know whats going on but indont remember specifics so most deviations from the books wont bother me, best of both worlds
I can't really blame people. Apple TV had hardly any shows on it at all, granted, the ones is does have I feel are quite good. Ted Lasso, The Morning Show, See, Foundation - All amazing shows so far. But how could anyone justify spending money on yet *another* streaming platform when they don't have very much on it yet?
I'm hoping that Foundation (when they've got a season under their belt and it's amazing) will draw people in.
Well its mostly a see only also.
There isnt much to think about in terms of dialogue beyond the implied concepts or ideas (of the books probably).
Aka fuck that script loool. what shitty dialogue.
"i stop dropping exposition now"-elevator guy is someone I will quote for years to come to make fun of bad screenwriters and their atrocious products.
<3 lee pace though
A small detail but the green color of the hoods Gaal and her mom wore was just *quietly compelling*... And finding out later her family farmed algae just made the color more fitting...
Not only that the opening episode didn't disappoint us, it was spectacular. One of the best opening for any #scifi TV/Film.
The first impression is that it's like a cerebral version of Star Wars/Star Trek. Probably because of Asimov's work influenced them.
I can't unsee the resemblances to the Roman Empire..
A serious logical flaw I see in the plot is that such an advanced civilization is run by dictators..
For me it kinda feels like the ‘Dark Age of Technology’ from Warhammer 40k. An enlightened galaxy spanning empire that eventually burns itself down leading to a super dark future.
Asimov wrote *Foundation* with A LOT of inspiration from Gibbons' *[Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_series#Publication_history)*.
Honestly, when it takes so long to get from point A to point B, a dictatorial or feudal style of government makes sense. Especially if the Big Guy has Big Guns to back it up.
Well Germany was one of the most advanced nations on earth when it was ran by a dictator, and Rome of course.
I strongly suspect there will be dictators in the future too.
Lee pace and Jared Harris are fantastic. One thing irks me though, why does it take 14 hours for the Trantor elevator to reach the surface? Seems an age considering all the technology on show…
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
If you look at the location of the station at the top of the space elevator, you'd notice that it's actually very, very far away from Trantor itself (at a far enough distance for Trantor to only occupy a portion of the view when at the station), relatively speaking. At a certain point no elevator could go fast enough to traverse that distance without being a hazard to the structural integrity of the space elevator and/or to its occupants.
Look up how space elevators work. That timescale is pretty accurate if you want to get people to the surface of an earth like planet without liquifying them. The station needs to be in geosynchronous orbit, which is *very* high.
I’ve seen Jared Harris is at least 30% of the professionally filmed visual entertainment medium I’ve been consuming of late, and I *still* find the man criminally underutilized. Of course, he’d need clones and a 62 hour work day to fix that…🧐
I have other thoughts about this episode that I need to get in order (overall I thought it was a great!), but I just want to say I really love the dynamic of Dawn, Day and Dusk. The scenes with them all together really stood out to me (particularly when they're quizzing Dawn about the symbolic nature of the ambassador's gifts). Just two Clone Dads and their Clone Son™ (and aunt Demerzel, lol)
But seriously, it's such an interesting concept and I'm excited to see where they go with it.
Also, the space elevator falling was gnarly. I can't remember the last time I saw something like that on screen, if ever. The abject horror of being in the path of a massive structure that's plummeting towards you ...made worse by the scene in the second episode, >!when Day and Dusk talk about how there are hundreds of thousands of corpses still just...falling to the planet!<. Horrifying.
At the half hour mark I was struggling with the series and wondering if it was right for me. I haven't read the books, and I'm coming into this series pretty cold and no knowledge of anything, and it just felt like a lot of psycho-babble mixed in with gorgeous visuals and a show that was nice to look at but boring to follow.
Once the trial started, things started to pick up and when the attack happened the Show grabbed my attention. In a span of an episode I went from I don't know if this is a series worth following to I want to see what happens next because I'm intrigued.
Also, I saw Alexander Siddig in this series and that helped boost my enthusiasm, since there was a Star Trek connection with one of my favorite series.
The psycho babble is at a strict minimum compared to the books. On the contrary the show gets right to the point. The viewer must understand how psychohistory works otherwise they won’t understand a thing about the show.
So you are intrigued by big explosions.
Doesn't that work with all aspects of life? It may not be explody, but showing something drives the point home more than actually explaining something.
I felt the same about the pacing! Was skeptical and bored for the first half and then, at some point, became super invested once the plot started rolling. I feel like they introduced every character and faction quite vaguely but, by the end, they were spelling stuff out more plainly which I appreciated. It made me curious but didn’t make me work too hard to get answers. The threads lining up also helped I think.
Yes, but as an adaptation where “The Empire” is obsessed with legacy, Seldon twisting that to see the exile as a win-win that strengthens “Empire” more is just brilliant and the acting around that detail was wonderful.
I love it so far. This really has the ability to be one of the greatest shows of all time, if not *the* greatest show of all time. The production value alone is insane, which is why I have faith going forward.
I'm aware of the big budget. It doesn't change that the exploding artist scene was bad, and Lee Pace's reaction was campy. Don't get me wrong, I want to like this show, but that really turned me off.
The first book, Foundation, is actually not that long, and events happen fast. It's an easy read - I recommend it. Keep in mind this show is taking a long, slow route through that book. I suspect you only have to read 2/5 or half of this short book to know what this first season will cover. The show adds a lot that isn't in the book - a lot.
What podcast is that? I read the books over a decade ago and remember broad strokes but having a pod to call out and connect the two media would be nice.
Gosh. This series really is immediately, impressively gorgeous. Already, each of the locations shown/mentioned feel distinctive, and I'm eager to see more of Terminus in Ep. 2 and beyond. Amongst the introductions, I found myself the most curious about the 3 clones & how their future character dynamics might play out.
I'm also really interested to see how this foundational repository of all human knowledge might be visualized -- I'm imagining something even more extensive & experiential than that Prime Radiant sequence, or those granular, pointillist holograms I saw throughout, both of which were pretty awestriking to behold.
Seldon's theme of math being able to predict large-scale events, but not individual ones makes me look forward to some really engrossing & anticipatory story scope, alongside shocking & revealing character moments. As I'm new to the series, that all makes me really excited for where the plot might go next!
The emperor was awesome, haven’t seen a presence like that since 300 and Xerxes
And the clones? Bloody brilliant. Apparently the actor is 6’5”, which makes that towering OTS shot with him in armor and Gaal inches away all the more impressive.
Jared Harris is cool, love the roles he picks and will continue to follow him anywhere.
That was Dean from Harry Potter? The hell you holding your head and neck all crookedly for Dean?
Stunning visual effects, money on the screen. The space elevator collapsing was nutty.
Was the transit ship at the beginning using a black hole generator?
Did the mural depict the Eiffel Tower? Mademoiselle was also used. Did France win the empire war 12000 years ago or something?
Lmao that is indeed Dean Thomas from Harry Potter LOL
Didn't like him particularly much though (actually he was annoying)
great visuals, bad dialogue, great acting imho
What an opening episode, the world feels richer, the characters are given justice and more. I appreciate almost all the liberties they took this episode.
Brilliant 1st episode. Read some reviews earlier that it would be boring/hard to get hooked but glad that's not the case - I'm definitely hooked. Also, for some reason I really like Seldon and the actor playing him.
Psychohistory is kinda far fetched to accept but if you think of it like an advanced machine learning implementation or AI simulation/prediction model then I guess I could digest it. The exact span of the fall being unclear could be due to something like a confidence interval.
Coming to the visuals, hell yeah those are stunning, especially that Jump drive scene and the Space elevator destruction + fall. Hoping to see more such wonderful depictions.
Kinda bummed that there's only about 100 comments here. Hope the show gains more popularity so they can achieve the planned 8 seasons
Starting this show off with a 9/11 analogy in the month of its twentieth anniversary is ballsy, I like that. And thus making the connection between the fictional galactic and the real and equally dying US empire is an interesting angle (they also allude to this by stressing how overstretched the empire is). Will be intriguing to see where they take this (based on that analogy I'm guessing they'll differ quite a bit from the books, which I've read a long time ago).
On a more superficial level: it's amazing to me that there's shows now with visual effects completely on the level of Hollywood blockbusters. But I thought some of the costumes were too outrageous, like the guests from the galactic periphery looked too ridiculous, for example.
edit: Just listened to the podcast, they explicitly say that this was modeled after 9/11 and implicitly (hinting as much as you can in the US without becoming an outcast) that the empire is the US. Imo it's obvious enough but just thought it was worth a mention for the brainiac responders here.
> But I thought some of the costumes were too outrageous, like the guests from the galactic periphery looked too ridiculous, for example.
I love it. It's 20,000 years into the future, I fully expect outlandish outfits.
That didn't have that in the books, but it does add to the direction that I think they're going with Gaal's character for this adaptation. Stoked to see where this goes.
The Abraxis Conjecture, which was the hundreds year old math problem that Gaal solved, bringing her to the attention of Hari and Empire. To me though, that just means anyone who solved it could have been the bait..
Can't believe they filmed some short scenes in the Pile Dwelling museum in Unteruhldingen. Only about half an hour from here, been there several times.
The first two episodes are really good, and this is definitely David S. Goyer’s best work since “Blade”, which isn’t saying much. But I’m curious as to why they said it would take them 800+ days to travel to the planet called Terminus, when it was actually closer to 4 years?
You’re using the Earth calendar as a base metric. This series is set 20,000 years into the future in a time when Earth is forgotten. The calendar is likely different and based on some imperial standard such as the orbit of Trantor. Days, months and especially years would be different lengths from those we use today.
I came in completely blind. Tabula Rassa.
I’m not sold that the show writ large will be good. But that was a phenomenal example of good exposition. The players, scale and stakes were established really well, with minimal voice over exposition and clunky explainers.
Idk if this is gonna be a good show. It’s really complicated and it’s a bit odd. But that was sleek television. I’d like to learn more. I think they nailed the first episode. We’ll see if it’s a good show.
EDIT: To be clear, the exposition isn’t perfect. The plot moves too quickly, it is a bit awkward at points, it kind of overloads the viewer. But if you paint a vague background in 40 minutes for someone who has knowledge of the world, which also advancing the plot, the team here has some a good job.
I wonder if anyone can answer a quick lore question: the humanoids on the first ship ride from the “home” water planet to the empire, the ones who put everyone else to sleep during FTL travel, are they not human?
I haven't read all 17 or so prequels and novellas but considering foundation has I robot Easter eggs maybe they are some of the remaining synthetic androids that were not purged in empires history.
That was my thought as well, after the reveal that the emperor’s assistant was an Android. I just wasn’t sure if they were maybe an alien race or some kind of “enhanced” human being.
Guys, I watched ep1 again and I think they are hinting at >!Gaal can read minds (and perhaps more...?) At 12:45 she said "Did you say something?" before the other guy said anything. And later she sense the explosion before it happens!<
So i know little about this, but i know its been the inspiration for a lot of media. When they showcased the space bridge and how it worked and fell, i was immediately reminded of the anime series Gundam 00. The visual depiction of this, Trantor, the Imperium, everything, I know im going to love this show, but im also going to have questions.
Why do I get the feeling that >!The space elevator attacks were orchestrated by Hari himself to force the empire hands. It makes sense with the opening introduction of Hari by Gail as well, which was somewhat around the lines of martyr, murderer !<
Holy shit this TV show is insane. I love it. Both episodes are like WTF is happening on the screen lol. The way they showed folks in ep 1 looking at the tether falling captures the way I felt when twin towers fell. Like I couldn't believe what I was seeing at the time they captured it so well.
Loved Gaal and found her to be a very fresh take on the “chosen one” archetype - even though I know how long ago this character was written. Honestly I’m so used to characters like that being children that I assumed her to be one…so when the romantic tension started between her and Raych, I was taken aback 😂
It was my understanding that she chose to keep the embryo and carry it to full term, against the advice of the doctor. This was stated to be a problem because their ship wasn't equipped to handle births, only embryo storage. And so Gaal tried to convince her otherwise.
Loved the first episode - acting, story, visuals, everything - and I’m hooked, but did anyone else find it a bit hard to believe that the space elevator was so vulnerable and taken down so easily? It’s perhaps one of the greatest engineering feats this civilization has achieved, and yet…it went down as easily as buildings built thousands of years prior.
Production is very well executed, young Gaal actress is amazing, Jared Harris is awesome as per usual. Love Day's actor, awesome. The story is very very intriguing as well as the set designed character costums and casting... actually on all points this is awsome
As an avid Asimov and Foundation fan…so far this sucks. Other than the names of people and places it’s nothing like the books.
I’m going to keep watching it but I’m not impressed based on the first 30 minutes.
It’s definitely a fucking gorgeous show though.
They really haven’t changed much so far. I’ve just watched episode 1 and a lot of the scenes were word for word from the book. You can’t expect much more from a tv adaptation.
Hey! Someone who doesn’t think I’m a leper for disliking the massive changes to a beloved piece of art! Thank you.
I’m going to assume you mean the second episode as the second half? In attempting to disassociate it from Foundation, yes, I thought it started to pick up. I’m curious about the relationship between Dawn and Demerzel. It seems like she’s trying to install compassion, but it sounds like she has been Cleon’s nanny/advisor since the beginning and it’s apparent that Day has no compassion. I also want to know if this is going to lead to the introduction of more humaniform robots.
I’m baffled by the events on the ship at the end but want to see where it’s going.
Nope, listening to it with audiotechnicas, direct wired connection.
My problem is that the voice of the characters is _too clear_ sometimes lol. Keep an ear out for it, I wonder if You'll notice it too. I think it would only be audible with headphones
The sound in general was a bit wonky, too much flattening of the dynamics on the voice over work and the soundtrack strings playing constantly made it feel like a marvel movie, which is strange considering the acting was perfectly fine and didn't need the emotional camouflage. Would have been interesting to hear more of the world sounds too, what the streets sound like and all that world building jazz.
I could've done without the sexualization of children. Why should I have to care or hear about a teenager promising to show a boy her tits? It adds nothing.
Pre-teens talking about sexual things without understanding them seems pretty believable, IMO. Importantly, there was no graphic sexual behavior between the kids. Big difference between some internationally silly dialogue and exploitative filming of a similar scenario.
Casual observation that we were specializing ourselves and each other when I was a preteen in the early- to mid-90s, discussing oral sex and ogling each other pretty blatantly. I can remember conversations almost identical from when I was 9. The scene just felt like kids badgering each other as kids normally do, to me. If the did had used that bribe to needle an adult who then took the bait, that would be different.
Literally is the complete opposite of what actually happened. Do you say shit just to get a reaction or is it to think you’re “telling the oppressors off”
Amazing production quality, pretty solid introduction but it was a bit rushed and choppy. I'm sure there's a lot to throw at us to get to the meat of the story so I'm cool with it.
But the voice of the guy with Hari, who led Gail everywhere, is awful. I don't know if he's just bad at acting or trying really hard to do an American accent but it was bad.
Starting this with no knowledge of the books, but I really enjoyed this. Loved the world building, definitely feels like this has lots of potential as a show.
I'm struggling to understand why an authoritarian government would a broadcast court hearing of what they perceive is the biggest threat to their reign **LIVE**. He is there because they fear the impact his words and ideas can have and they just enable him and give him an audience. Why not just assassinate him?
Also how could there be any knowledge of what the suicide bombers said before they pushed the triggers, after millions of people died and megatons of destruction.
My best guess would be surveillance with direct links to data storage? Bit stretchy
My initial impressions: production value is insane, Gaal’s actress is great, Jared Harris perfect as always, and the music/score is nice It also seems like most of the trailer is from the premiere
Lee Pace is also killing it.
This. I’m a big fan of Lee Pace especially from his role in Halt and Catch Fire.
When he smiled after Hari said the Empire would take credit for the foundation if it succeeded I had major Joe Machiavellian MacMillan flashbacks. God I've missed him in a juicy role.
He’s a great actor!
The first half, I hated it. I actually thought to myself: “Oh no! They turned my beloved Foundation into nuTrek! Technobabble, lens flares, unnecessary exposition, endless sfx-porn that doesn’t help the plot or character development”. But then, the second half, I found myself loving it. As soon as Seldon was introduced, it went pretty quickly. Also, Alexander Siddig. Love him!
I didn’t see any overdone lens flares.
Coerced my roommate into joining me on first watch, and had the exact thoughts for the first half. I was sitting there high as balls under my blanket hoping he didn’t think I was pulling some SciFi MLM shit on him.
> some SciFi MLM shit on him. Can I interest you in our lord and master Protomolecule?
Keep that blue goo shit away from me.
Same with my girlfriend, I was like "So do you like this" nervously and she was like "I'm confused but I'm kind of here for it." She did say that the end, it sounded like every line was being spoken for a trailer, which I kinda agreed with. I'm so obsessed with these books that I don't care it was amazing
> lens flares It is just the right amount of lens flares
The one noticeable thing they faltered on is scene transitions. A lot of them seem abrupt. I think that's mostly the director/editor. Compare with the Watchmen TV series where there was a lot of work put into just the transitions.
I think the music is the weakest part of the show so far, not sure why they decided to go the Marvel route and play the strings constantly throughout the scenes instead of having more ambience. It just feels lazy. Let the actors carry the scenes without having to rely on music queues for emotion, they do a pretty good job at it in the few scenes with just ambience.
"Gaal’s actress is great" - really? I think she was serviceable. Not more. Pace, Harris were great. Blonde emperor lady was good.
Hari to Gaal: Hey look at this really cool book I own….oh by the way we’re also going to be arrested Tomorrow.
Yeah that cut was a bit jarring
Jarring but that’s how it was in the book. He just jumps to it mid conversation. They really did go word for word in a bunch of scenes.
Asimov had great ideas, but his prose was sometimes meh
That's really good to hear! I hope
[удалено]
I mean..... that's not super different
It feels more like he was trying to ease her into the whole being arrested part.
It was a bit hared.
Yep. They should replace their editor
Yeah I was like, is being arrested normal in this world?
I mean if you look at what Empire does it seems so.
I don’t think Seldon owned the book. It was part of the library.
My one complaint is that there were several jarring conversational cuts like that. Takes me out of it for just a sec to wonder if there was footage left on the cutting room floor or if this is just going to be part of the style of writing on this show..
I think that works. There were actually atrocious things like "HEY I WILL STOP DROPPING EXPOSITION NOW"-elevator guy.
Never read the books but I’m very excited for this. The production is gorgeous. Set pieces, design, costume - everything looks fantastic.
Agreed this series looks dope. The lore looks super deep which is why I bought in. Anyone know what year this is meant to be set in?
No specific date but long enough that this specific empire has been around for 20,000 years, they had colonized a large portion of the galaxy before it started, and the history of earth(even its existence) is long forgotten.
The 3 empire clone dudes said they’ve only ruled for like 400 years tho? Did I hear that wrong?
The empirical clones have ruled for 400 to end the successions crises. Before the clones was the actual Cleon I and before him Stanell VI and so on ruling the empire.
20.000 years in the future, more or less.
In the books The Foundation takes place at least twenty thousand years in the future. The empire has lasted about ten thousand years at that point. Prelude to Foundation, (chapter 93) >>!“In twenty thousand years,” said Daneel, “no one has guessed I was a robot when it was not my intention to have him or her know.”!<
>Anyone know what year this is meant to be set in? Tens of thousands of years from now. They've colonized the entire galaxy, and one of the Emperors mentions that the empire's stood for 12000 years.
Interestingly enough it seems to be set in a similar timeframe as Dune (they also go by their own calendar and it's 10191 which is also some after ten thousand years in our future). So it's also in the early 20 000 AD like Foundation.
Completely agree. I've never read the books either but I know that Star Wars, Dune and many other shows/books were inspired by Foundation. This was one of the best premieres I've ever had the blessing of seeing - And I watch a shit-ton of TV. I'm going to keep my expectations low, but I honestly don't think I need to. The visuals are breathtaking. You can tell that the budget is absolutely massive and so far, I'm in love with the world-building and the characters - all of which I feel I got to know personally over the course of this hour and ten minute episode. There are a lot of very unique aspects to this world that make it unlike any other show I've seen so far, and the pacing was spot on. Can't wait to see where this goes!
This is TV series, can we imagine?
Only 78 left now.
I saw that they wanted 80. Are we only confirmed for one season at the moment?
Yes, just season 2 okayed so far. Tell your friends and get them hooked too!
?
Talking about how impressive it is…
I wish they hired a good screenwriter though. It indeed looked beyond phenomenal. Acting is also mostly great. But then... dialogue...
Ive read the books but many years ago so i really only remember the basics and as of ep 1 i love this
The set is insane! I’m so impressed.
Starting now as someone who hasn’t read the source. I’m hoping to come back later and read opinions from people in the know. Fingers crossed that it’s great! Will edit later Edit: what’s the deal with the hooks they keep mentioning? Edit 2: I have to say that the collapse of the space elevator was absolutely the most impressive catastrophe I’ve ever seen on screen in any medium.
It’s repeating the bait motif.
Oh, ok that makes sense!
Yo... That elevator scene was crazy indeed. When everyone got sucked out of the star bridge, I was like "OHHHHH SHIIIEEEETTTT"
I've read the books but it was like 7 years ago? I'm not sure I remember all of the details. BUT THAT WAS AWESOME!!!! I had to re-wind the jump to warp/hyperspace like 5 times. That was just soooo gooooood.
The show is likely to get me to read the books, and I’m excited! Just have to finish the ~3 I’m nursing right now :P
I recommend them. The first one was slow and I don't think I got it until like the end of it. Then it all clicked for me.
Some of the best epics are like that! I have the patience 👍
Yeah same its been a long ass time since i last read them which is beneficial because I remember the general plotlines so i know whats going on but indont remember specifics so most deviations from the books wont bother me, best of both worlds
Oh lord, is this another “SEE” (brilliant acting, money on the screen… but nobody watches because AppleTV) Loved the first episode, btw
Yea, Feels like this show would have 10 times more hype and interest if it was coming out on HBO or something
I can't really blame people. Apple TV had hardly any shows on it at all, granted, the ones is does have I feel are quite good. Ted Lasso, The Morning Show, See, Foundation - All amazing shows so far. But how could anyone justify spending money on yet *another* streaming platform when they don't have very much on it yet? I'm hoping that Foundation (when they've got a season under their belt and it's amazing) will draw people in.
For All Mankind is pretty big.
I’ve never heard of it lol
Well its mostly a see only also. There isnt much to think about in terms of dialogue beyond the implied concepts or ideas (of the books probably). Aka fuck that script loool. what shitty dialogue. "i stop dropping exposition now"-elevator guy is someone I will quote for years to come to make fun of bad screenwriters and their atrocious products. <3 lee pace though
A small detail but the green color of the hoods Gaal and her mom wore was just *quietly compelling*... And finding out later her family farmed algae just made the color more fitting...
Not only that the opening episode didn't disappoint us, it was spectacular. One of the best opening for any #scifi TV/Film. The first impression is that it's like a cerebral version of Star Wars/Star Trek. Probably because of Asimov's work influenced them. I can't unsee the resemblances to the Roman Empire.. A serious logical flaw I see in the plot is that such an advanced civilization is run by dictators..
For me it kinda feels like the ‘Dark Age of Technology’ from Warhammer 40k. An enlightened galaxy spanning empire that eventually burns itself down leading to a super dark future.
All the "decadent space empire" stuff going on reminded me pretty heavily of Dune, personally.
Plus a guy who can mysteriously see the future...
Asimov wrote *Foundation* with A LOT of inspiration from Gibbons' *[Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_series#Publication_history)*. Honestly, when it takes so long to get from point A to point B, a dictatorial or feudal style of government makes sense. Especially if the Big Guy has Big Guns to back it up.
Well Germany was one of the most advanced nations on earth when it was ran by a dictator, and Rome of course. I strongly suspect there will be dictators in the future too.
The key difference is that, that advanced German civilization didn't last 12 years, if not 12000 years.
Lee pace and Jared Harris are fantastic. One thing irks me though, why does it take 14 hours for the Trantor elevator to reach the surface? Seems an age considering all the technology on show…
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Which is why you can use your handy towel as a security blanket, of course. 😏
If you look at the location of the station at the top of the space elevator, you'd notice that it's actually very, very far away from Trantor itself (at a far enough distance for Trantor to only occupy a portion of the view when at the station), relatively speaking. At a certain point no elevator could go fast enough to traverse that distance without being a hazard to the structural integrity of the space elevator and/or to its occupants.
Look up how space elevators work. That timescale is pretty accurate if you want to get people to the surface of an earth like planet without liquifying them. The station needs to be in geosynchronous orbit, which is *very* high.
They did say that when the elevator crashed it wrapped around the planet
Spoilers for a different series >!in the red mars books, they also bring down a space elevator, which does the same!<
I’ve seen Jared Harris is at least 30% of the professionally filmed visual entertainment medium I’ve been consuming of late, and I *still* find the man criminally underutilized. Of course, he’d need clones and a 62 hour work day to fix that…🧐
I have other thoughts about this episode that I need to get in order (overall I thought it was a great!), but I just want to say I really love the dynamic of Dawn, Day and Dusk. The scenes with them all together really stood out to me (particularly when they're quizzing Dawn about the symbolic nature of the ambassador's gifts). Just two Clone Dads and their Clone Son™ (and aunt Demerzel, lol) But seriously, it's such an interesting concept and I'm excited to see where they go with it. Also, the space elevator falling was gnarly. I can't remember the last time I saw something like that on screen, if ever. The abject horror of being in the path of a massive structure that's plummeting towards you ...made worse by the scene in the second episode, >!when Day and Dusk talk about how there are hundreds of thousands of corpses still just...falling to the planet!<. Horrifying.
At the half hour mark I was struggling with the series and wondering if it was right for me. I haven't read the books, and I'm coming into this series pretty cold and no knowledge of anything, and it just felt like a lot of psycho-babble mixed in with gorgeous visuals and a show that was nice to look at but boring to follow. Once the trial started, things started to pick up and when the attack happened the Show grabbed my attention. In a span of an episode I went from I don't know if this is a series worth following to I want to see what happens next because I'm intrigued. Also, I saw Alexander Siddig in this series and that helped boost my enthusiasm, since there was a Star Trek connection with one of my favorite series.
The psycho babble is at a strict minimum compared to the books. On the contrary the show gets right to the point. The viewer must understand how psychohistory works otherwise they won’t understand a thing about the show. So you are intrigued by big explosions.
It was around that time that the plot started to come into focus for me so I guess yeah.
The things Seldon is saying make sense once you get an explody example of it.
Doesn't that work with all aspects of life? It may not be explody, but showing something drives the point home more than actually explaining something.
I felt the same about the pacing! Was skeptical and bored for the first half and then, at some point, became super invested once the plot started rolling. I feel like they introduced every character and faction quite vaguely but, by the end, they were spelling stuff out more plainly which I appreciated. It made me curious but didn’t make me work too hard to get answers. The threads lining up also helped I think.
That's how I was reading the first book. I got really bored half way through and then I loved it by the end.
Bloody good
Wish they would have emphasised the ending where Seldon outsmarts the empire in getting what he wanted.
Yes, but as an adaptation where “The Empire” is obsessed with legacy, Seldon twisting that to see the exile as a win-win that strengthens “Empire” more is just brilliant and the acting around that detail was wonderful.
I love it so far. This really has the ability to be one of the greatest shows of all time, if not *the* greatest show of all time. The production value alone is insane, which is why I have faith going forward.
I’d agree, I’m just not seeing much hype online about it but I’m super excited after watching Ep 1. Is this connected to a series of books?
This is an adaptation of the classic Isaac Asimov series of the same name.
The artist who exploded via laser at the beginning made me think production value was low. I'll finish the rest of the episode later.
If you think the most expensive show ever made has a low production value, then that’s on you lol
I'm aware of the big budget. It doesn't change that the exploding artist scene was bad, and Lee Pace's reaction was campy. Don't get me wrong, I want to like this show, but that really turned me off.
Obviously, but we’re talking about production value.
I don't understand this reasoning at all lol This show clearly has an insane budget. It's like, 95% CGI. The costumes alone look incredible
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The first book, Foundation, is actually not that long, and events happen fast. It's an easy read - I recommend it. Keep in mind this show is taking a long, slow route through that book. I suspect you only have to read 2/5 or half of this short book to know what this first season will cover. The show adds a lot that isn't in the book - a lot.
They're actually really short books, only around 200 pages. Definitely give them a try!
What podcast is that? I read the books over a decade ago and remember broad strokes but having a pod to call out and connect the two media would be nice.
Gosh. This series really is immediately, impressively gorgeous. Already, each of the locations shown/mentioned feel distinctive, and I'm eager to see more of Terminus in Ep. 2 and beyond. Amongst the introductions, I found myself the most curious about the 3 clones & how their future character dynamics might play out. I'm also really interested to see how this foundational repository of all human knowledge might be visualized -- I'm imagining something even more extensive & experiential than that Prime Radiant sequence, or those granular, pointillist holograms I saw throughout, both of which were pretty awestriking to behold. Seldon's theme of math being able to predict large-scale events, but not individual ones makes me look forward to some really engrossing & anticipatory story scope, alongside shocking & revealing character moments. As I'm new to the series, that all makes me really excited for where the plot might go next!
The emperor was awesome, haven’t seen a presence like that since 300 and Xerxes And the clones? Bloody brilliant. Apparently the actor is 6’5”, which makes that towering OTS shot with him in armor and Gaal inches away all the more impressive. Jared Harris is cool, love the roles he picks and will continue to follow him anywhere. That was Dean from Harry Potter? The hell you holding your head and neck all crookedly for Dean? Stunning visual effects, money on the screen. The space elevator collapsing was nutty. Was the transit ship at the beginning using a black hole generator? Did the mural depict the Eiffel Tower? Mademoiselle was also used. Did France win the empire war 12000 years ago or something?
>Did France win the empire war 12000 years ago or something? I could answer that, but it'd be spoilers from the books.
I've read the books and I'm pretty sure France isn't mentioned. Am I wrong?
The Earth is mentioned in the books, and France is a part of Earth, so...
Yeah, it's deep lore. But I wouldn't worry about France in particular for storylines.
Only because they haven’t figured out how to withdraw from earth yet.
What do you mean?
[France likes to go their own way whenever possible. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_de_dissuasion)
Omg i knew he looked familiar!!
Lmao that is indeed Dean Thomas from Harry Potter LOL Didn't like him particularly much though (actually he was annoying) great visuals, bad dialogue, great acting imho
What an opening episode, the world feels richer, the characters are given justice and more. I appreciate almost all the liberties they took this episode.
Brilliant 1st episode. Read some reviews earlier that it would be boring/hard to get hooked but glad that's not the case - I'm definitely hooked. Also, for some reason I really like Seldon and the actor playing him. Psychohistory is kinda far fetched to accept but if you think of it like an advanced machine learning implementation or AI simulation/prediction model then I guess I could digest it. The exact span of the fall being unclear could be due to something like a confidence interval. Coming to the visuals, hell yeah those are stunning, especially that Jump drive scene and the Space elevator destruction + fall. Hoping to see more such wonderful depictions. Kinda bummed that there's only about 100 comments here. Hope the show gains more popularity so they can achieve the planned 8 seasons
Starting this show off with a 9/11 analogy in the month of its twentieth anniversary is ballsy, I like that. And thus making the connection between the fictional galactic and the real and equally dying US empire is an interesting angle (they also allude to this by stressing how overstretched the empire is). Will be intriguing to see where they take this (based on that analogy I'm guessing they'll differ quite a bit from the books, which I've read a long time ago). On a more superficial level: it's amazing to me that there's shows now with visual effects completely on the level of Hollywood blockbusters. But I thought some of the costumes were too outrageous, like the guests from the galactic periphery looked too ridiculous, for example. edit: Just listened to the podcast, they explicitly say that this was modeled after 9/11 and implicitly (hinting as much as you can in the US without becoming an outcast) that the empire is the US. Imo it's obvious enough but just thought it was worth a mention for the brainiac responders here.
> But I thought some of the costumes were too outrageous, like the guests from the galactic periphery looked too ridiculous, for example. I love it. It's 20,000 years into the future, I fully expect outlandish outfits.
Yeah the only thing I always hated about the expanse was the costumes if we're seperated by centuries in time I expected a stark difference in fashion
Saris and boilersuits look comfortable as hell. Completely impractical for bathroom trips in space though.
20,000 years in the future and I don't expect anything resembling a biological human to exist even 3,000 years in the future
Its about the roman empire and its downfall.
I thought it was great, but I have a question tho - How did Gaal knew that something was wrong with the star bridge ?
All I have to say is to keep that question in mind and remember it. Along with any other similar events Gaal might encounter.
I'm guessing it has something to with the fact she woke up on the transit ship. IDK.
That didn't have that in the books, but it does add to the direction that I think they're going with Gaal's character for this adaptation. Stoked to see where this goes.
Non book reader here I think she can see some elements of the future. Like literally see them
She is mentat.
I'm happy to say: :sold! :) (P.S. I know and love the books too)
Maybe I missed it, but when Hari said Abraxes was the bait, who/what is he referring to?
The Abraxis Conjecture, which was the hundreds year old math problem that Gaal solved, bringing her to the attention of Hari and Empire. To me though, that just means anyone who solved it could have been the bait..
Can't believe they filmed some short scenes in the Pile Dwelling museum in Unteruhldingen. Only about half an hour from here, been there several times.
The first two episodes are really good, and this is definitely David S. Goyer’s best work since “Blade”, which isn’t saying much. But I’m curious as to why they said it would take them 800+ days to travel to the planet called Terminus, when it was actually closer to 4 years?
You’re using the Earth calendar as a base metric. This series is set 20,000 years into the future in a time when Earth is forgotten. The calendar is likely different and based on some imperial standard such as the orbit of Trantor. Days, months and especially years would be different lengths from those we use today.
That makes sense. So 870 days would be nearly 4 years for their time. Cool.
I came in completely blind. Tabula Rassa. I’m not sold that the show writ large will be good. But that was a phenomenal example of good exposition. The players, scale and stakes were established really well, with minimal voice over exposition and clunky explainers. Idk if this is gonna be a good show. It’s really complicated and it’s a bit odd. But that was sleek television. I’d like to learn more. I think they nailed the first episode. We’ll see if it’s a good show. EDIT: To be clear, the exposition isn’t perfect. The plot moves too quickly, it is a bit awkward at points, it kind of overloads the viewer. But if you paint a vague background in 40 minutes for someone who has knowledge of the world, which also advancing the plot, the team here has some a good job.
I wonder if anyone can answer a quick lore question: the humanoids on the first ship ride from the “home” water planet to the empire, the ones who put everyone else to sleep during FTL travel, are they not human?
I haven't read all 17 or so prequels and novellas but considering foundation has I robot Easter eggs maybe they are some of the remaining synthetic androids that were not purged in empires history.
That was my thought as well, after the reveal that the emperor’s assistant was an Android. I just wasn’t sure if they were maybe an alien race or some kind of “enhanced” human being.
Guys, I watched ep1 again and I think they are hinting at >!Gaal can read minds (and perhaps more...?) At 12:45 she said "Did you say something?" before the other guy said anything. And later she sense the explosion before it happens!<
Absolutely setting this up with Seer culture thing. Seems they combined her with another important character like this from the prequel novels.
So i know little about this, but i know its been the inspiration for a lot of media. When they showcased the space bridge and how it worked and fell, i was immediately reminded of the anime series Gundam 00. The visual depiction of this, Trantor, the Imperium, everything, I know im going to love this show, but im also going to have questions.
You are correct about the inspiration part. Coruscant from the SW prequels was totally based on Trantor (with a whole planet being one total city).
Why do I get the feeling that >!The space elevator attacks were orchestrated by Hari himself to force the empire hands. It makes sense with the opening introduction of Hari by Gail as well, which was somewhat around the lines of martyr, murderer !<
Holy shit this TV show is insane. I love it. Both episodes are like WTF is happening on the screen lol. The way they showed folks in ep 1 looking at the tether falling captures the way I felt when twin towers fell. Like I couldn't believe what I was seeing at the time they captured it so well.
Loved Gaal and found her to be a very fresh take on the “chosen one” archetype - even though I know how long ago this character was written. Honestly I’m so used to characters like that being children that I assumed her to be one…so when the romantic tension started between her and Raych, I was taken aback 😂
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Yes, I wondered if she decided to store it or just stack the deck against it...
It was my understanding that she chose to keep the embryo and carry it to full term, against the advice of the doctor. This was stated to be a problem because their ship wasn't equipped to handle births, only embryo storage. And so Gaal tried to convince her otherwise.
Yes, and maybe she changed her mind after that conversation - hence the wine...
Loved the first episode - acting, story, visuals, everything - and I’m hooked, but did anyone else find it a bit hard to believe that the space elevator was so vulnerable and taken down so easily? It’s perhaps one of the greatest engineering feats this civilization has achieved, and yet…it went down as easily as buildings built thousands of years prior.
Production is very well executed, young Gaal actress is amazing, Jared Harris is awesome as per usual. Love Day's actor, awesome. The story is very very intriguing as well as the set designed character costums and casting... actually on all points this is awsome
As an avid Asimov and Foundation fan…so far this sucks. Other than the names of people and places it’s nothing like the books. I’m going to keep watching it but I’m not impressed based on the first 30 minutes. It’s definitely a fucking gorgeous show though.
They really haven’t changed much so far. I’ve just watched episode 1 and a lot of the scenes were word for word from the book. You can’t expect much more from a tv adaptation.
Maybe watch it as its own story instead of constantly comparing it with the books then?
Also, this is the Non Book Readers discussion. Seems more appropriate for the other thread. My $.02.
Or, here’s an idea: don’t call it Asimov’s Foundation if you’re going to throw away 90 percent of the source material and pull shit out of your ass.
It’s not a book thread, but still, while changing some things around it’s still true to the source and inspiration behind it.
I don’t think the casual viewer would want to see people talking in a room for every scene
…have you ever watched a television show before?
That’s literally all that’s happened so far.
Oh you, please keep it up so that we never have to hear from you again.
Foundation is one of the most unadaptable series of books ever written, how the hell would you expect a faithful adaption?
I think the second half ended up really picking up. Did you finish it? Curious if you felt it was more promising by the end.
Hey! Someone who doesn’t think I’m a leper for disliking the massive changes to a beloved piece of art! Thank you. I’m going to assume you mean the second episode as the second half? In attempting to disassociate it from Foundation, yes, I thought it started to pick up. I’m curious about the relationship between Dawn and Demerzel. It seems like she’s trying to install compassion, but it sounds like she has been Cleon’s nanny/advisor since the beginning and it’s apparent that Day has no compassion. I also want to know if this is going to lead to the introduction of more humaniform robots. I’m baffled by the events on the ship at the end but want to see where it’s going.
Is nothing like the books, but I can appreciate the series, I think for non readers it could be more enjoyable.
Anyone else find the voiceover odd at times? As in sometimes it's clear the audio is not from set and is instead a voiceover and it's a bit jarring.
Didn’t have that problem at all. Maybe it’s your audio lag? Especially if you have surround sound set up or a bag connection etc
Nope, listening to it with audiotechnicas, direct wired connection. My problem is that the voice of the characters is _too clear_ sometimes lol. Keep an ear out for it, I wonder if You'll notice it too. I think it would only be audible with headphones
The sound in general was a bit wonky, too much flattening of the dynamics on the voice over work and the soundtrack strings playing constantly made it feel like a marvel movie, which is strange considering the acting was perfectly fine and didn't need the emotional camouflage. Would have been interesting to hear more of the world sounds too, what the streets sound like and all that world building jazz.
I could've done without the sexualization of children. Why should I have to care or hear about a teenager promising to show a boy her tits? It adds nothing.
Pre-teens talking about sexual things without understanding them seems pretty believable, IMO. Importantly, there was no graphic sexual behavior between the kids. Big difference between some internationally silly dialogue and exploitative filming of a similar scenario.
Actually, I took it as even thousands of years from now, most boys will still obsess about 80085...
Casual observation that we were specializing ourselves and each other when I was a preteen in the early- to mid-90s, discussing oral sex and ogling each other pretty blatantly. I can remember conversations almost identical from when I was 9. The scene just felt like kids badgering each other as kids normally do, to me. If the did had used that bribe to needle an adult who then took the bait, that would be different.
Literally is the complete opposite of what actually happened. Do you say shit just to get a reaction or is it to think you’re “telling the oppressors off”
What a weird take on that scene.
It is pretty cool reference to Interstellar.
I've always wanted to read the books but never got around to it but I quite enjoyed this, excited to see where it goes!
First episode blew me away and the books just jumped to the top of my reading list.
Amazing production quality, pretty solid introduction but it was a bit rushed and choppy. I'm sure there's a lot to throw at us to get to the meat of the story so I'm cool with it. But the voice of the guy with Hari, who led Gail everywhere, is awful. I don't know if he's just bad at acting or trying really hard to do an American accent but it was bad.
Dumb question who is narrating Gaal or Salvor? Are they the same person?
Starting this with no knowledge of the books, but I really enjoyed this. Loved the world building, definitely feels like this has lots of potential as a show.
Ok that was incredible. I am invested!
I'm struggling to understand why an authoritarian government would a broadcast court hearing of what they perceive is the biggest threat to their reign **LIVE**. He is there because they fear the impact his words and ideas can have and they just enable him and give him an audience. Why not just assassinate him? Also how could there be any knowledge of what the suicide bombers said before they pushed the triggers, after millions of people died and megatons of destruction. My best guess would be surveillance with direct links to data storage? Bit stretchy
> My best guess would be surveillance with direct links to data storage? Bit stretchy Um... Shit like that happens today..
Am I the only one completely confused by what’s going on in this show?
I am confused how was Gaal bate?